Collateral Damage in the Cable Wars (updated)

by rspencer on Apr 24, 2009 1:50 AM PDT

Charter Cable and FSW are engaged in a spitting match, and we Angel fans are caught in the middle.

We unfortunate Charter ~~victims~~ customers were left in the dark the first week (sadly, it was Nick Adenhart's start) when a game was blacked out for us with absolutely no explanation offered.

Wednesday Night (the second game in the Tigers series) I checked the Fox Sports HD channel hopefully, as always, but while the info box promised the Angels game, what I saw was the Dodgers-Astros game in progress. That's the problem with surfing cable nowadays: you never know when you're going to happen upon something offensive.

I jumped over to FSW, and there was some kind of rock 'em-sock-em match going on, with a crawl instructing me to call my cable ~~denier~~ provider and ask them why I was not seeing the Angels game.

Well, a lot of us did, and yeswecan finally got the whole truth out of Charter:

Fox wants Charter to charge its customers for certain games. Charter does not. They are in negotiations, and since they don’t have an agreement, the following games are currently scheduled to be blacked out (not available to watch at any price): April 23-24, May 4-8, 12-13,18-19, 25, 27, 29, June 15-16, 22-24, July 6-8, and 10.

Several of us were told that these were "premium" games. As far as I can tell, a "premium" game is one in which our bullpen has a meltdown.

So the situation seems to be this: FSW is pulling a power play with the cable companies, and Charter is digging in its heels. Well, that's their prerogative, but instead of being up front with us customers, they acted coyly, issuing no warning beforehand, feigning cluelessness the first time, and then coming clean after being dimed by FSW, and then only under intense interrogation (well done, yeswecan!)

So what do we Charter Angel fans do? What recourse do we have? I doubt that even if we all demanded the pro-forma $5 credit every time this would force their hand, and in any event they make this so difficult that it's hardly worth the effort. We could cancel their service, and if you have Verizon FIOS available, this is the course I would recommend. I hear the service is fantastic. Unfortunately, it's not available where we live. We could switch to DirecTV, but we'd still have to stay with Charter for their Internet service. Forget calling FSN; they'd just tell us to call Charter.

What do you all think? I don't imagine the Angels have any direct control over this--at least, I can't imagine they would be party to this, given that they have more to lose than anyone--but it is in their best interest to see this matter resolved as quickly as possible, because this affects their ratings, and thus in a way the value of the franchise. So perhaps leaning on them would have the best effect.

Update

I "chatted" online with supervisor Jocelyn, who after some prodding issued what sounds like the official Charter position, once one gets past their protective layer of guile:

Fox Sports has decided to make certain Angels games unavailable unless Charter pays an additional surcharge.

Following your favorite sports team is an emotional experience, so we hear from a segment of our customers that want their team on TV every week regardless of which network carries the game and the price involved. However, we have also heard from a significant amount of customers that appreciate greater choice in channels that would impact their cable prices.

Our priority is to continue providing the best value and choices to our customers. Sports on television is the most expensive programming available to cable operators and cable customers today. Charter has interest in carriage of all MLB programming, however we feel that pricing needs to be reasonable for our cable customers.

We are negotiating with FSN to carry these games and hope to be able to provide these games without raising our rates.

I worked on her for nearly an hour, making all the arguments you all have offered below and putting the flame to her straw-man argument about people who call up with unreasonable or impossible demands, but I couldn't make her budge off the company line.

I did nonetheless get her to knock $10 off our bill, which provided at least some compensation for the time I wasted with her and her underling before her.

Judging by the absolute lack of coverage of this situation anywhere but here, and Charter's apparent willingness to sacrifice some business to win this corporate skirmish, I guess (as Jim Healy might have put it) we have just two chances of getting satisfaction anytime soon: slimski and noneski.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

Tweet Comment 68 comments | 5 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

wow

$180 for my MLB extra innings is looking like a deal after hearing about this.

by LosAngel on Apr 22, 2009 10:42 PM PDT reply actions

Well worth it for an out-of-town fan

but as yeswecan noted, we Charter victims can’t see the game at any price.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 22, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Call Arte

by eyespy on Apr 22, 2009 10:52 PM PDT reply actions

One word

Directv – It has PT and FS in HD all the time

Nick, you will always be an Angel. And you will be missed.

by anaheimisnotla on Apr 23, 2009 12:08 AM PDT reply actions

We're going to do it

but we live on a large heavily wooded lot, so I had to run conduit out 100 feet to a pole to find a clear shot to the satellite, and now I have to pull the cable. DirectTV will run it through the house, but I have to get it to the house or pay someone to do it.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 23, 2009 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions

And some people live in apartments with asshole landlords who dont allow satellite

Sean Rodriguez...the Rodriguez for a new Millennium

by HaloDutch on Apr 23, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions

I believe that there's a CA state law which requires your asshole landlord to allow it.

Disclaimer IANAL, nor do I play one on TV.

Angels fan since '67

by red floyd on Apr 23, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions

I believe you are right

The reason Congress authorized the bandwidth for sat TV was to provide a competitor for cable, since cable franchises are, by necessity, a monopoly.

I don’t think the landlord can discriminate against your ability to get sat TV, unless the placement of the dish constitutes an extraordinary hazard or burden.

by George Kaplan on Apr 23, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions

wow i wish i knew this before shitty landlady said no satellite

moving out in 3 months, so not worth it now

RIP #34

by linkbruin on Apr 24, 2009 3:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Totally agree here

I don’t miss cable. At the end of the day, directv finds a way to get it done.
Comcast sportsnet in the bay area has tried to pull similar crap since the owns the RSN and move the A’s around to a Sacto channel. Bottom line, directv worked through all the bullshit and got it done with no impact to the subscriber base. Cable co’s feel a sense of entitlement to the customer base, therefore the customers are a secondary concern, ie. you get screwed.

by LosAngel on Apr 23, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions

Internet service

We could switch to DirecTV, but we’d still have to stay with Charter for their Internet service.

Is a WiMax service like ClearWire available in your area? The reliability and throughput seem to be equivalent to cable internet (much better than DSL).

I have always kept that idea in the back of my head, in case TimeWarner pulls the same kind of shenanigans with me. My wife and I haven’t had a land line in about 5 years, so DSL isn’t really an option I’d wish to explore. But the ClearWire option seems like a good Plan B.

I live out of SoCal, so the MLB.TV service has worked well, and I don’t have any blackouts except if the team plays the Braves (which I would get on regional cable) or the Orioles or Nationals (which I wouldn’t get because TW has had litigation with MASN for the past two years—the courts told TW it must carry MASN, but while the decision is in appeals, nothing has happened).

In addition to being cheaper than the Extra Innings package on cable, MLB.TV shows hi-def broadcasts in hi-def, while Extra Innings bumps it down to barely VHS quality on some of the feeds. In either case, of course, you’d still be blacked out of Anaheim games in SoCal—you’re screwed, unless you get DirecTV.

by George Kaplan on Apr 23, 2009 3:53 AM PDT reply actions

You're in the Atlanta area?

One of my brothers lives in Suwanee (not sure I spelled that correctly, because I can’t help thinking of it as Swanee). Anyway, thanks for the tip re WiMax services; I’ll check that out, but we live in an area that gets all new technologies last. We didn’t get sewers until 1929!

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 23, 2009 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions

yep

cable version of MLB extra innings is a joke, minimal HD, which is another reason I moved to directv. If available, you get the HD home and away feeds. I love the 8 games in HD mix channel!! Combine this with my slngbox and I essentially get what MLB.tv gets you on the computer as well.

by LosAngel on Apr 23, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Now that I've had overnight to cool off a bit

maybe it’s not such a great idea to bug the Angels FO about this too much. They seem to have enough on their plate right now. So I guess we have to concentrate on bugging Charter.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 23, 2009 7:28 AM PDT reply actions

article describing the situation

http://www.satelliteguys.us/sports-section/61395-angels-break-off-fsn-west-talks.html

"Boy, did he drop a huge deuce in the stands!" (About a two-run homer)
Rex Hudler

by devildogamp on Apr 23, 2009 7:50 AM PDT reply actions

Thanks, but the link appears old

If I’m reading it correctly, the post at that link is dated 3-31-2006.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 23, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions

That deal was signed.

It happened

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Apr 23, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm pissed about being blacked out

yet oddly wishing they’d blacked out the Twins fiasco, too.

Oh, the irony. Had I seen last night’s meltdown, I’d have gone all Fat Elvis on my TV.

by The Clyde on Apr 23, 2009 8:31 AM PDT reply actions

Then you could have gone to Howard's

for a brand new Hi-Def Plasma TV!

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 23, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Charter vs. Fox

Fox wants Charter to charge its customers for certain games. Charter does not.

This is just Charter’s spin. I can’t imagine Fox cares how much Charter charges its customers. And I’m sure Charter would love to bleed more from its subscribers, if they could get away with it. It looks like the parties started the season without an agreement and these blackouts are just a byproduct of the ongoing negotiations.

by lbjames on Apr 23, 2009 8:43 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Correct me if I'm wrong

(and I know y’all will) but don’t the Angels charge higher ticket prices for select games (like the Red Sox, Yankees, etc)?

Seems that is exactly what FSW is seeking to do with the cable companies.

by George Kaplan on Apr 23, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Exactly

Fox wants to charge Charter for these games, and Charter doesn’t want to pay. No other cable network that I am aware of charges their customers for these games. Time-Warner doesn’t, and I haven’t heard anything from Cox customers.

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Apr 23, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions

This fanpost rec'd

For not including Scioscia OR Brandon Wood in it!

In a year of such turmoil, whining still abounds.

by Downing Rules on Apr 23, 2009 9:29 AM PDT reply actions

Scioscia's fault

its scioscias fault if he played wood you cant charge premium for watchin minor leaguers who arent established LOL

"Boy, did he drop a huge deuce in the stands!" (About a two-run homer)
Rex Hudler

by devildogamp on Apr 23, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions

If we had all bought our cable service at Howards ...

none of this cable trouble would have happened.

In a year of such turmoil, whining still abounds.

by Downing Rules on Apr 23, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions

Scioscia playing Brandon Wood

Is now considered a premium game.

I think people might pay extra to watch that though!

by LosAngel on Apr 23, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions

If GA wasn't so Lazy, he'd have posted and put both of them in.

If GA wasn’t so lazy, he’d have mediated this dispute long ago.

Angels fan since '67

by red floyd on Apr 23, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions

GA is too lazy to heal his injuries

In a year of such turmoil, whining still abounds.

by Downing Rules on Apr 23, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Man, I'm gonna miss that joke.

Let’s keep it alive as long as we can.

Keep those hammies limber, boys.

by Rally Manatee on Apr 24, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Time Warner is a little dissapointing too

Certainly not nearly as bad and just plain not being able to see the game, but I will probably only get 30 games in HD this year. There’s nothing worse than watching standard deff, on a 58" 1080p Plasma…..

by MidwayCityLivestock on Apr 23, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions

Yes there is

SD on 58" 1080p Plasma with Charter. Stuff at times comes in so compressed it looks like bad YouTube.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 23, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Sure there is.

watching standard def on a non-HD 32" CRT. with only a coaxial hookup.

This bullpen collapses faster than the Austro-Hungarian Empire

by HaloDutch on Apr 24, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, okay

but only if you’re watching Charter.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 24, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions

I changed citys to escape their reign of terror

This bullpen collapses faster than the Austro-Hungarian Empire

by HaloDutch on Apr 24, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Thanks for the info!

I really appreciate it. I went and signed up for DirectTV and it’s actually cheaper than Charter. It was actually very easy to switch over.

by KennyKatella on Apr 23, 2009 10:44 AM PDT reply actions

We've got Dish (phone+TV+DSL) and never really had any problems

RIP Nick

by ladybug on Apr 23, 2009 12:08 PM PDT reply actions

Just got off the phone with Charter...

The way they explained it to me, was that Fox raised the prices of their extra innings package on April 10th, which is well after customers had already paid. They then go on to tell me that the customers need to “get together” and let Fox know how unhappy we are. They might as well have said, “Hey, call Fox and tell them blah blah blah, and then call us back and tell us what they said.” It was at this precise moment that the sarcastic asshole in me (which isn’t very far beneath the surface) emerged for what seemed like a twenty minute rant about organizing a march on the Newscorp corporate grounds a la million fan march. So basically, two companies fight while the customer suffers, and the only offered solution is to organize protests. Fox basically suggests the same approach toward Charter.

Any company that handles complaints by even suggesting that the customer get involved with the solution to a major problem is a company unworthy of my business.

Apologies in advance.

by Red114 on Apr 23, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions

But this is crap, though

because “Extra Innings” isn’t what this is about at all. It’s about home market broadcasts, something already confirmed at The Fabulous Forum. That’s the second significant lie to come from Charter on this:

1) That “Fox wants Charter to charge its customers for certain games” as mentioned in the main post.
2) That this is somehow about Extra Innings.

Now, I know that the drones who answer the phones can’t always be relied on to have the facts straight when you call them (I can attest to this with the Time Warner rollout of the MLB Network channel), but this borders on mendaciousness. They didn’t hear these stories from just anywhere, and involving Extra Innings is just a smokescreen.

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Apr 23, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh trust me...

I am more than aware of the fact that they’re lying. I’m just reporting their ridiculous response. Yesterday the story was that it was just a technical problem that was being tended to by technicians and would be solved “within the hour”. Last week it was just a “programming glitch”. The night of Adenhart’s last game, it was a “Fox satellite issue”.

I would wish AIDS on all of them, but that would probably work against me since they are bending me over raw dog on my easy chair.

Apologies in advance.

by Red114 on Apr 23, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions

It's standard operating procedure with Charter

to utter whatever lie will get them out of a situation. They don’t border on mendaciousness; they are mendacious. As you point out, the uniformity of the BS flung by the various phone reps proves by a preponderance of the evidence that Charter pursues a program of misinforming customers in order to keep them docile .

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 23, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, forget "borders on"

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Apr 24, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions

cox cable

im a cox cable man in vegas and our games are not coming in either! im unable to buy the mlb package as well cause they say we our in the LA market so i had to buy the mlb radio package just so i can at least hear the angels blow games! disgruntled angel fan in nevada… i just want to watch baseball….please artie its fricking hot outside i want to stay inside and watch the angels!!!!

by J WEAV Express on Apr 23, 2009 6:09 PM PDT reply actions

Cox Cable in Arizona.

Nick Adenhart.

by WillGoAngels27 on Apr 23, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions

All cable companies suck...

I’ve got DISH in Vegas and watch every Angels game via FSW. I sould suggest scraping Cox and switch to DISH or DirecTV.

by BeachBill on Apr 30, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions

BS with cable

How about passing a petition around the stadium to get cable to pony up? Maybe they’d respond to a class action breach of contract law suit. I know they promised me the games this year. It’s the only reason I have cable at $130 a month!! Let’s scare the Bast***ds!!!

by hjotis on Apr 23, 2009 11:35 PM PDT reply actions

I see this the same way

Charter is revoltingly callous regarding their customers, and has not acted towards them in good faith regarding this situation. The problem is that the only coverage I’ve found of this matter is here on Halos Heaven. I’m afraid nothing is going to happen until the news media hereabouts bestirs themselves to cover the situation.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 24, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Let's picket!!!

I’m all for picketing Charters office in Long Beach. Any one with me? I can pretty much promise media coverage. At least ESPN and the Register

by hjotis on Apr 23, 2009 11:54 PM PDT reply actions

Sadly, this is where television are headed

Soon most sporting events will be pay per view. It’s really sad that NFL/MLB just doesn’t get it. We are in a recession here people

RIP Nick. We will miss you!

by KingF15h on Apr 24, 2009 5:24 AM PDT reply actions

is headed. Derp

RIP Nick. We will miss you!

by KingF15h on Apr 24, 2009 5:24 AM PDT up reply actions

the only reason I have cable is to watch Angels games

If they’re going to charge me extra for a service that I already paid for, then I wonder if Charter has breached its agreement with me? It seems like paying twice for the same service.

I’m heading out of town this weekend. If this Fox/Charter BS isn’t resolved by Tuesday, I’m canceling the cable service. I live around the corner from 3 bars that will have the games on.

by yeswecan on Apr 24, 2009 11:48 AM PDT reply actions

I switched to the ATT U-Verse service

If you’re a big NFL fan, I would go with Direct TV, since they have all the goodies for that league. But the U-Verse 200 HD/DVR service is a tad cheaper (like a couple bucks) than Direct TV and you can get internet through that service as well. So far, it seems to be working great.

Also, FWIW, the customer service at Direct TV started out as great and quickly became pretty crappy. The customer service at ATT has been some of the best I’ve gotten – friendly, helpful, knowledgeable, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

I feel the need, the need...for speed!

by Gorbachav5 on Apr 24, 2009 12:43 PM PDT reply actions

I have U-Verse as well

We’ve had a few problems with ours, but over all I like it.

But no MLB Network…

I have nothing important to say.

by thrill000 on Apr 27, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions

Here in Santa Barbara

Remember our struggle last year to get all the KCOP games televised in Santa Barbara? Even after Tim Mead himself personally assured my mom over the telephone that the Angels were aware of the situation, and working to remedy it for the 09 season, if not within the 08 season, we still cannot watch the KCOP games. That means I can’t watch any Sunday games this year, and any others on KCOP.

What the heck is the matter with these people? Angels fans are getting alienated and pissed off, and it seems like noboby, including the Angels themselves, give a rat’s ass.

Keep those hammies limber, boys.

by Rally Manatee on Apr 24, 2009 5:23 PM PDT reply actions

What really makes it sting is this shit never seems to happen to the Doyers

This bullpen collapses faster than the Austro-Hungarian Empire

by HaloDutch on Apr 24, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions

rats...

that was funny.

In a year of such turmoil, whining still abounds.

by Downing Rules on Apr 25, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Fans screwed by corporate shakedown, once again...

Am I understanding this correctly: FSN buys the rights from MLB to televise games, then turns around and sells some of those games for an increased price to the cable companies? Isn’t that scalping? If this is the case, then we are screwed b/c MLB is the culprit, and previous complaints about Stubextortion Hub have already fallen on deaf ears. Seems MLB, with its tacit approval of FSN “premium” package deals, is determined to follow boxing into oblivion. Meanwhile, the heart of the Angels’ fan base, the average middle-class ticket holder (not corporate season ticket scalpers) are now having their money stolen and dignity robbed by MLB both at the game (absurd ticket prices for a decent seat) and at home (increased cable bills). Personally, my patience and wallet are wearing thin…

by Big A little a (bouncing b) on Apr 25, 2009 8:32 PM PDT reply actions

I'm not sure of the facts behind what you say

but I sure understand the sentiment. The cost of being a baseball fan seems to be escalating just as the economy is downalating.

One more thing to throw into the mix: Charter Cable is currently under bankruptcy reorganization (I had thought they’d emerged from it already), so it is actually quite plausible that it can’t afford to pay FSW the premiums it’s demanding for these games. In fact, the bankruptcy executor or trustee or whatever they call it may simply not be allowing the expenditure.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 25, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions

downalating?

This bullpen collapses faster than the Austro-Hungarian Empire

by HaloDutch on Apr 26, 2009 4:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Sorry

I’ve been listening to too much Rex.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 27, 2009 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Awesome

I have nothing important to say.

by thrill000 on Apr 27, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions

Scalping? No

This is how cable networks operate. Be grateful you aren’t a Yankees fan — they get to PAY $5 annually for the privilege of watching the home team. (At least, it was $5 as of a couple years ago.)

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Apr 25, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions

MANY MORE QUESTIONS

1. When did Charter decide that they were not going to pay for a premium class tier of 25 Angel home games from FSN this season?

2. Why was there never a public announcement over this tier charge by FSN or an announced refusal to pay it by Charter?

3. Has Charter in the past paid FSN for this (or a similar) tier and now Charter just won’t pay it?

4. Why were Charter service reps not informed of this decision to not pay for this tier, leaving customers uninformed, as if on purpose?

by Rev Halofan on Apr 26, 2009 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions

I specifically asked questions 1, 2 and 4 above

and got “we only know what we are told.” After a while, I began to believe it. Plausible deniability, the lawyers call it.

As I mentioned earlier, we had a tech guy out on Saturday to address poor picture quality. After I deflected some preliminary BS, he came clean with what is probably the central problem: Charter is still in bankruptcy, and simply has no cash for anything. Their bankruptcy executor probably won’t allow this expenditure, because there are debtors in line who must be paid in proper order.

Frankly, I don’t expect to see this issue resolved at all this season, because Charter is not scheduled to emerge from bankruptcy until November.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on Apr 27, 2009 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Switch to U-Verse

Switch to ATT U-Verse. Great signal, lots of channels, DVR to record 4 programs at once, watch recorded programs from any TV, Price is similar to cable but more bang for the buck. Many HD channels, I have the top tier (U450) plan which basically leaves about 3 channels that are “premium” channels that I don’t have.

by Jokerbasher on May 4, 2009 12:18 PM PDT reply actions

Sounds great!

But we live in an underserved area. We don’t have U-Verse, or FiOS, or even the alternate cable service that is in most of the city. Wrong side of the tracks and all that.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on May 4, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions

That is why, on the 8th day, God invented satellites.

by Stirrups on May 4, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm working on it

but we have no clear shot to the satellite from the house, so I had to plant a pole 100 feet away and run conduit from there to the house through the hardest, most boulder-laden soil this side of the Sierra Nevadas. Now I have to pull the cable. Such is my dedication to Angels Baseball.

But I’d rather have U-Verse or FiOS, because those services include broadband Internet service as well. Even with satellite, I’ll have to keep Charter for the Internet.

In memoriam Nick Adenhart

by rspencer on May 4, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions