Shooting in Angel Stadium Parking Lot
by Rev Halofan on Jun 25, 2009 12:09 AM PDT
in Angels News
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Shots were fired by an off-duty police officer at two people who had allegedly assaulted him in the parking lot after tonight's game. The officer had been in attendance at the game (reportedly with his wife and small children) and was hit in the head with an object approximately 30 minutes after Wednesday's game ended.
The officer is at a hospital being treated for his head injuries. The two alleged to have assaulted him are being treated for gunshot wounds at a local hospital. No word if it is the same hospital.
UPDATES are appearing here and in the comments below...
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Well, this explains all the sirens going opposite direction of me on Katella after the game.
Thanks for the info, Rev. This minimal amount of information at least provides some context for the occurrence. My first thought was “… dang, are we slowly becoming another Doyer club?”
"I've got more action than my man John Woo
And I've got mad hits like I was Rod Carew" - Shure Shot, The Beastie Boys
As for hospitals
I imagine in both cases you default to UCI Medical down the street
"I've got more action than my man John Woo
And I've got mad hits like I was Rod Carew" - Shure Shot, The Beastie Boys
hospital
often, but not necessarily (especially if it’s a gunshot wound). Western Medical Center in Anaheim is a trauma center so it’s very likely they’d take them there. plus, it’s almost the same distance away.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
let's hope the officer pulls through
screw the scumbags
Who goofed? I've got to know.
by hittheg on Jun 25, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Piss off. We don't know what happened yet - we weren't there.
Once some credible official news and evidence comes out, then I’ll say screw the scumbags.
yeah good point
It unnerves me to think that any person out of uniform would have a firearm accessible at the stadium.
by Rev Halofan on Jun 25, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Police in most cases are required to carry even while off-duty
and I have no problem with concealed carry, especially by a LEO who has been very well trained and has the experience to understand when you must use deadly force.
Personally, I believe if a CCW permit were easier to get, people would be a lot nicer to one another in everyday life encounters (in most cases).
by reddawnman on Jun 25, 2009 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know that LEO is not a zodiac reference in this case
What is a LEO?
My only worry is a guy at the game with his concealed weapon and a few beers.
cool.
As long as he is not drunk (and the fact that he apparently shot straight would indicate this) then I am cool with this, especially if it is standard operating procedure.
I don’t know a single cop who doesn’t carry when off-duty (“out of uniform”), and I know a lot of cops since I’m friends with the police commissioner.
Did you ever see the Commissioner’s Bat phone?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jun 26, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
You need to think about this a little longer, Rev.
Officers out of uniform are EVERYWHERE. They are normal people who shop, go to amusement parks, hang out at the beach, cut you off in traffic, dine out, sit next to you in movie theaters and concert halls, go dancing, camp, attend church, shop at Walmart, visit art exhibits, and walk their dogs. According to information here, quite often they are doing that carrying a firearm. And, unlike with private citizens carrying firearms in public places, these firearms are loaded.
So the next time you look around Angels Stadium you may be inclined to get a little nervy. Instead, relax and enjoy the game. They have always been there. They have always been everywhere. And, as we will most likely find out with this event, they are not the problem. They are the solution.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
by Stirrups on Jun 25, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think it is more for protection
If someone were to go after them for busting them in the past etc.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
That's exactly why they are required to carry
We lived next door to a deputy sheriff when I was a kid (soooo long ago). While he was on his own property he didn’t wear the gun, but he was required to wear one when he left the house.
.... as sexy as socks on a rooster.
out of uniform
off duty police officers are required to carry their weapon when off duty. it’s not rocket science nor is it “unnerving” or “scary”.
if anything I’m glad they’re around. where they can take action (at the very least, calling it in to a dispatcher) if they see something. but in extreme circumstances, yeah, I want these guys to have a gun to protect you and me!! there are many documented cases where an O/D police officer has prevented a crime or further damage to the general public.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure the officer was hit in the head by accident.
You are assuming the likelihood of the officer being a liar and a murderer is as great as the “alledged attack” he reported. I do not. Your well wishes to the shot disgust me. So you can piss off. If you would say “screw the scumbags” after you were informed by the media that they were actually murderous thieves then why would you wish them well before knowing? If there is new information that the initial report was incorrect then they will no longer be considered scumbags. My curse would then be meaningless (as if it wasn’t already).
I am not unnerved by good and well trained people being armed. It actually comforts me, even when they’re not in uniform. Will we ban under-cover officers from the stadium?
Who goofed? I've got to know.
Remember Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman, and the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders?
Used for Propaganda by the Army, Used for Propaganda by the Army, falsely declared a woman insane to cover up LAPD departmental corruption?
Yeah, that is why I reserve judgment. Understand that my dad is a cop, and I was scared sh*tless when he was going into koreatown during the riots, and was damn glad he was (is) well armed. I am very pro law enforcement, pro concealed carry, and pro death penalty (not necessarily as we have it now).There is nobody you’ll find more willing to believe and support our police than me.
At the same time, I’ve also heard many stories of police misconduct which went unchecked, and an attitude by LEO’s that while understandable given what they face on a daily basis is not one which would foster equal protection in our courts.
I’m 99% certain the guys who he shot deserved it, but I draw the line at drawing conclusions without any hard evidence. Even with Adenhart. I heard what happened, was sad and pissed off, but I didn’t wish ill of the guy without information. When the press conference and reports came in, THEN I was happy that he was in the O.C. Jail, where they have Angels memorabilia EVERYWHERE and I was sure that he was being put on the bottom of the prison hierarchy while the guards were looking the other way, if you know what I mean.
I thought you were justifing the "criminals."
I’m sorry for my harsh words. I thought you didn’t understand good/evil. Your father was a cop, you know more than I. This crime scares me; our stadium is not safe to go to? I thought you assumed an officer’s word was automatically suspect. I reacted to what I thought was the truth and probubly is. Thank you for replying to my comment.
BTW I think prison rape is terrible. I’d rather they didn’t have “terror through the night” (Oingo Boing). Any prisoner “terrifiing” another is getting enjoyment and I’d rather that didn’t happen.
There is a slight chance that the officer lied about the happening, but we all doubt it.
Who goofed? I've got to know.
That was my embellishment about prisoner abuse
Getting joy off other people’s suffering is what starts the whole rotten mess fermenting down the sewer. Prison rape is not something to be taken lightly, but I do believe the guy deserves to not be comfortable.
At the bottom of the hierarchy doesn’t necessarily mean rape. Especially with a high profile case, he’s gonna be in an isolated cell so that nothing physical can happen to him, period. The chances of misconduct and him getting injured and causing a mistrial would be too great.
However, I’d expect he’s getting the bare minimum in regards to food and leeway with personal time, communications, exercise, etc.
Uncomfortable and away from us,
that’s all I want.
Rape should be considered as bad as it is no matter what the sex or the venue.
Who goofed? I've got to know.
screw the scumbags
screw the scumbags.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Reported on ABC7 Eyewitness News:
Police Sgt. Tim Schmidt says Wednesday’s game had been over for about 25 minutes when the officer, who was walking to his car with his wife and small children, was hit in the head with an object then shot the men with his duty weapon.
Schmidt says one man was shot in the head and is in critical condition, the other was shot in the arm and in serious condition.
Schmidt says the officer has a serious head wound. All three were taken to hospitals.
I am the Iron Man
thank you
I also read the same on Yahoo!
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
One word: Bummer.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jun 25, 2009 12:53 AM PDT reply actions
Oh, man
This is going to be a lengthy post. I personally would not want to weigh in on a judgment until there is more information.
Angel Pitching (Adenhart), Angel Defense - get past that.
Im just going to pray for all of them
This is sad.. We just don’t know what was said to the Wife or the Small Children or maybe they were being threatened or they had a knife. We will know over time. But lets just pray for all of them.
Nick Adenhart.
Angel Stadium is becoming a more dangerous place
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
+1
+1
never let your guard down just because you think you’re in a “safe place” or you live / work / are hanging out in a “good area”.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a scary situation
Some of you may know that I got mugged in north London in April. It wasn’t scary at the time, it just happened so quick – but in retrospect it’s scary as hell.
My wife had just called me on my mobile phone and I had it in my left hand talking to her. I was walking down a fairly well lit but relatively deserted street. One little guy came up to me and smiled and asked for a light. His mate, another little guy, was standing off to the side.
When I reached into my pocket for my lighter, the mate grabs the mobile phone. I’m like wtf so I make a move for him. When I do that, Mr Smiley smashes me in the back of the head, knocking me down, and grabs the backpack/laptop off my right shoulder.
I got up and chased after them but it was no hope, they knew exactly where they were going into a row of darkened houses. Another young guy walking his dog saw it happen and he chased too but we couldn’t catch them and didn’t want to go any further into the houses.
When the cops came, one copper sort of chastised me for chasing after them. In retrospect he was right when you think what could have happened …
a) What if I had caught up with one of them and he had a knife? I wouldn’t be here right now. Fists usually lose in a knife fight. And worse …
b) What if I had been carrying a pistol? I am trained with handguns and rifles. I would not have missed.
Not sure if this adds anything to this debate except for that I can understand what that officer must have been feeling when/if he was assaulted.
I really feel bad for the wife and kids in this situation as well, having to watch it all go down in front of them. As I said before my wife was on the phone with me and heard it all as I was being mugged, and until I got back to my flat and could call her on my mate’s phone, she was scared shitless that I had been killed.
So my feelings are a bit mixed on this one, but my gut feeling is blast the f——-rs.
Don't call me Desmond
Confused
And worse …
b) What if I had been carrying a pistol? I am trained with handguns and rifles. I would not have missed.
Why would that have been worse? because you would have shot the bastards?
+1
I am a 6’tall, decent build male. I’ve been mugged about a mile from Angel Stadium while leaving a bar which was also less than a mile from my house. so I am in complete agreement with you. not much sympathy here.
I’ve also been attacked at a sporting event by a drunken college kid which seems like it might match at least one of the “alleged” perps in this case. didn’t think that much about it at the time, more or less shrugged it off and let security handle the problem. but I take things a lot more serious nowadays.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
WOW
WTF is going on out there? Another violent incident. The Angels organization is going to have to do something about security at the stadium. I don’t know what, but they can’t have people getting assaulted/killed at games.
What ever happened to the guys from earlier this year that jumped/killed that guy? I’m assuming they were never caught?
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
unclear
I can find nothing in the OC Register saying what happened to the suspects wanted for “questioning” in that case. let’s hope the law finally catches up with whoever did it…
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
THE ANSWER
STOP SELLING ALCOHOL AT GAMES.
Greed will always prevail. And so will morons who drink at games. Now I don’t know what happened here, but in most cases alcohol is involved.
by Paul C on Jun 25, 2009 6:59 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
exactly and rec'd
We as a franchise have all seen the effects of alcohol this year. That is the answer Paul.
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
Couldn't agree more...
Alcohol doesn’t commit crimes, criminals do.
by Wytelitning on Jun 25, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that is the solution.
Maybe the vendors and security should take a little more responsibility on who is being served.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
As Homer Simpson put it:
“To alcohol! The cause of – and solution to – all of life’s problems.”
by XYZ123 on Jun 25, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If reports are true, the assailants used beer bottles in the attack
At the game, you buy your beer in cups or plastic bottles, neither of which are weapons. This implies that the assailants were consuming their alcohol independent of what is sold/not sold at the game itself. It also implies that they were already ignoring the rules, as alcohol consumption is not permitted on the lot. And, of course, there is the question of wheterh or not the attack occured because anybody was intoxicated.
So we have an attack that did not involve beer sold at the game, by people who were already determined to not follow rules about consumption or public safety, and an assumption is made that the reason they attacked is because they were drunk. And the proposed solution is to stop selling beer to the people who ARE in the stadium, who ARE choosing to drink where it IS permitted, and who chose to exit the game and depart the lot SAFELY. Sorry if I fail to follow.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
by Stirrups on Jun 25, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+10000
This has nothing to do with beer at the games, it has everything to do with the pre-existing attitude of the assailants.
These guys were going to bring in their booze regardless, and stadium staff can’t catch it all. There is no point in curtailling liquor sales which sell in a controlled manner when the booze will just be snuck in in an uncontrolled manner.
Even then, it is STILL about your attitude! Hell, the last time I went to a game with a girl, I was carrying a flask, a bunch of airline minis of rum, cranberry juice and we had spiked our lemonades from In-n-Out pretty heavily on the walk into the stadium.
Did we bother anyone? No! Did I assault anyone? No! My attitude was not aggressive and obnoxious even though we were pretty blitzed by the 4th inning.
It sounds like their plan and their attitude was “F***, it, lets get drunk, be macho jerks, and try to pick a fight!” They were pre-game and post-game partying, and if it was a glass bottle, as stirrups said they were already breaking the rules.
They picked the wrong guy, and paid the price (assuming the news reports are correct and they hit first, etc.). I have no problem with an officer trying to protect his family, so long as he used good judgment. I don’t have enough of the facts to say for certain he did or did not, although at this point it sounds like he did from available information.
yes
I agree, even if you ban alcohol inside the stadium people will still drink beforehand or sneak those little bottles in. a drunken idiot will always manage to be a drunken idiot.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
this is some fraggle naggle bullshit
not enough info to judge. Still, if a man’s carrying and he thinks his family’s in danger, its hard to fault him for drawing down
Get Aybar off this team. Now.
Comical that most of you have already jumped to the defense of the officer.
A good majority of life’s rejects and socially inept get a badge and a gun. Mix that with a few drinks and you get the God complex.
I’ll wait till the full story is disclosed (which most likely will never be fully realized if the department does a good enough job covering it up).
Unfortunate event for all those involved.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Mabe You've Just Had Too Much Run-in with the LAPD
Don’t let the corrupt and oppressive LAPD mar your perception of policemen, because the LARGE and VAST majority of cops are good people.
Several eye witness reports state that they attacked the officer with beer bottles
they started it, he finished it. Take your thug-life BS somewhere else.
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Jun 25, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amen.
Seriously, people. You mess with fire, you get burned. Regardless of right or wrong on the cops part at this point, if these A-holes didn’t mess with the guy to begin with everybody’d be home.
Instead, you get some guys, sober, drunk or otherwise, thinking it ok to start something.
My dad used to say that if you start something you better be prepared to finish it.
Clearly, they bit off more than they can chew, which to be honest, prevents their NEXT attack, so let’s hope everybody pulls through and that the justice system handles it accordingly.
Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"
The Geek.
by The OC Sports Geek on Jun 25, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
well said, and thank you
i love how people automatically assume the worst of police officers for doing their effing job. if you don’t like it, make sure not to call them the next time you’re in trouble, and you’re being assaulted with beer bottles.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jun 25, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait until the full story comes out, Charles Bronson.
You sound like a typical poster on OCRegister.com.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jun 25, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
And you, a typical OCWeekly poster.
"We have a great closer, one of the best in the game, and I wouldn’t trade him for anyone else." (Matt Palmer, after the latest Fuentes meltdown)
by PieceOfAase on Jun 25, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Touché
I have a problem with the general idea that discharging a firearm by an off duty officer should be met with the thought of “he’s doing his job, leave him alone.”
Anyone that carries this type of authority should be met with heavy criticism.
Could have easily been my daughter tagged with a stray round leaving the game, so to just sit back and say, he’s a cop I’m sure he made the correct decision, is complete B.S.
On the other hand, if these guys were deserving of getting shot, then its Darwinism at it’s finest. There’s more to this story than a couple of eyewitnesses and I’m sure it will be unwraveled.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jun 25, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
RE:
“I have a problem with the general idea that discharging a firearm by an off duty officer should be met with the thought of "he’s doing his job, leave him alone."
….really? you have a problem with a man, who’s job is to put his life on the line and protect the people around him, doing his job even though he’s not getting paid for it? you’re going to tear this man down for protecting himself, his family, and God knows whoever else could’ve been assaulted if those idiots decided to harass someone else?
what if it was your daughter getting harassed and this man jumped in and did the same thing? would you still criticize his decision? would you still feel the same way?
i have nothing but utmost respect for this man and ALL law enforcement. i’ve grown up with and around officers my whole life (Pops is a Lt. for West Covina PD), so i have a general idea of the mindset of officers and i have a general idea of the things they go through.
lighten the eff up, and think outside your safe little box.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jun 25, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you have the same respect for Marines?
Just wondering. :)
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jun 26, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
who says?
who said the officer was the one drinking?? if anything it was probably the opposite. methinks thou doth assume too much.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Cops
just like anyone else in any other profession are liars, cheats and aren’t perfect at their jobs. They have racial biases, gender biases and can sometimes be A-Holes.
However, you have to respect them when they put their lives on the line. This wasn’t some Jerk Cop pulling someone over for some minor traffic violation just to make money for the city (which I see all the time I am a traveling salesman) This was a trained officer who decided that it was acceptable to discharge his weapon. that decision is not made lightly.
While we shouldn’t jump to conclusions just saying that the others were “scumbags” in this instance I think it is fair to give the officer benefit of the doubt, unless proven otherwise.
It takes a lot to pull out a gun with your family and lots of bystanders around
Aybar is overrated
by Sinatrasratpack on Jun 25, 2009 8:12 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Life long Angels fan checking in from SF
I can’t say that you could see this happening, but over the years the stadium has increasingly been filled with belligerent morons. I know a large portion of the fan base is family based, but looking back, the writing was on the wall. Whether it’s the increase the Vatos from Santa Ana, or shaved-head retards from Huntington Beach, Angel games are being taken over a minority portion of people who don’t give a shit about their fellow fans, the game or the Angels. They go to games to get drunk, yell at women and act like children. For Angel fans, this has go to be the more embarrassing season in our history.
You are what you type.
Trashy Fans
We’ve had season tickets for 7 years and I noticed that the Angels attracted a much more trashier contingent this season – and I mean human race trashier – regardless of race, etc. I’ve been at games where women (if you can call them that!) behaved worse than any drunk male. My husband and I do our best to have a great time regardless, but it’s a shame some people can’t have a good time at the park and let others have a good time as well.
by Trickie Vickie on Jun 25, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions
like Paul C said...
stop selling beer at the park, and the people who come to get drunk won’t come. It’s a simple solution.
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
Aww Man! Baseball, Hot Dog, Peanuts and a Beer! :)
True, but I’m sure you’ve had to dodge beer bottles in the parking lot on the way in and out of the park. Although you can spend $$$$ and get ripped in the park, I’ve seen people get their party on well in adavnce of game time…
by Trickie Vickie on Jun 25, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm a responsible drinker...
so if I go to games and have a few Corona bombers with my friends without causing any trouble or starting any shit, why shouldn’t I be allowed to do that?
Not sure how you get the trash to stop coming to the games, I was at Sunday’s Dodger game and that was pretty much the lowest of the low
Hey, I lived in HB for a few years...
With popularity comes a greater variety of people, but people should feel safe to walk to their vehicle and drive home after the game. The Angels need to post security. Baseball is known as a family sport more than any other major American sport, and it is up to the ownership of the clubs to make sure that holds true.
I also read something about the man being choked, but more than anything else, this cop is with his family and two small children (or so I’ve read).
I know that a person who endangers my family will immediately get the “fight” response from me, and I’m not a trained anything.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel
parking lots have gotta be the most dangerous places in SoCal
this shit always goes down in parking lots. Hell, I’ve been jumped twice going to my car this decade.
Get Aybar off this team. Now.
yes
I agree, this is definitely a security issue. they need to basically double what they have now for it to be considered “adequate”. the octegenarian ushers don’t count, and besides that you only see a handful of security or P.O.’s walking around during an entire game.
in a bad economy and with the Angels seemingly more high-profile than ever, the unruly ones seem to come out even bigger force.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
and...
I forgot to mention, there is basically NO security in the parking lot(s). NONE.
so I agree with you that security is lacking, and it’s no wonder that parking lots are dangerous places, and should we be surprised, because it appears to be a lawless, unsecured free-for-all.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
And the People Who Get Punished Are The Ones That Know When to Say When
This could happen anywhere in the OC – anywhere a bunch of drunk losers can congregate. I mean, really – if you’re gonna sit around getting drunk and acting stupid while watching the Angels – do it at home!! Keep the roads and games fun and safe for the rest of us!
It would not surprise me if the stadium has a knee-jerk reaction and makes the acohol cut-off stricter or something. It’s the fans who party responsibly, who know when to stop drinking, the ones who can drink without being obnoxious, who can tailgate without being jerks that pay for what these idiots did!
These two lucky asshats weren't exactly Mormon Missionaries
going car-to-car proselytizing. I blame the cop 100% …………. for not having spent more time on the range perfecting his aim. Toe tags ought to have been dangling off of these lucky bastards on a UCIMC slab, with a nice funeral at a public landfill.
"We have a great closer, one of the best in the game, and I wouldn’t trade him for anyone else." (Matt Palmer, after the latest Fuentes meltdown)
to be fair,
its probably hard to line up a shot on two moving targets right after you get cracked with a bottle. Probably had a slight concussion, coulda had glass in his eye…
Get Aybar off this team. Now.
one was a headshot
if I read correctly, then at least one of the gunshot wounds (I believe they had one each) was a headshot.
just sayin’. seems like his aim was just fine, to me. though it did take him 3 shots to hit twice… he was hit in the head with bottles that did require stitches, so that’s a pretty good excuse. and who knows the distance involved.
by Brian S (brianguy) on Jun 25, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Aren't cops trained for body shots
not head shots?
As the body is a larger target.
If that’s true then that head shot was a bit of a miss.
*Ade-Rock 34*
by TheTypingFiend on Jun 25, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
failure drill -
two to the body, one to the head.
i’ve been there while cops are qualifying. if you’re supposed to hit the body, you’ll hit the body. if you’re trying to eliminate the threat, you eliminate it. end of story.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jun 25, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Regardless if he was a cop or not, he was defending his family.
Some questions I have are: did he have to shoot? Would having a gun deter them enough? When he shot was it truly self defense, or anger? Why did he need to shoot both of them? And why did he shoot a man in the head?
Self defense or not, there is a line where it is excessive force. Especially for someone trained to serve and protect.
But until the witnesses tell there tail, there is really only a whole lot of questions.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Jun 25, 2009 1:02 PM PDT reply actions
If you or your family are threatend, you shoot until the threat is neutralized. Period.
And “neutralized” generally means “on the ground, dead.” That is the way that police are taught to shoot, and that is as it should be. If the threat is serious enough to use deadly force, you use that force to eliminate the threat. In the heat of the moment, with seconds to decide and no margin for error, you err on the side of your family’s safety and you take the threat out until it is no longer a threat.
Having a gun pointing at people who have already assaulted you with a deadly weapon is not enough. If you feel it is justified to draw your weapon, you need to have made sure it is justified to USE that weapon before making the move to the holster. You don’t point a gun at anything that you aren’t willing to destroy, as banking on idle threats when dealing with dangerous people tends to not work out very well.
Seeing a Marine trying to break into the car that carried his family to the game might cause some concerns.
If the story is correct, his response was simply to call 911. That shows some pretty serious restraint.
Being choked by that Marine and his brother, subsequent to that call, might be a reason to have a sense of personal danger.
Being hammered on the head with glass bottles by that Marine and his brother might suddenly cause the victim to worry not just about his own immediate health, but that of the family that he had just walked back to these guys.
Just sayin’…
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
No one knows what happened, exactly
Unless they were there.
But let’s consider the witness statements who say the assailants hit the cop over the head with beer bottles. And I don’t like guns so I’ve never held one in my life, but let’s all put ourselves in the cop’s place.
Whatever the context, two males are assaulting you and attempting to incapacitate you. Your wife and small children are about to be without the aid of your defense regarding whatever your attackers are about to do.
So who would empty the gun?
raises hand
"I've got more action than my man John Woo
And I've got mad hits like I was Rod Carew" - Shure Shot, The Beastie Boys
by Zoe Necrosis on Jun 25, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Consider the Circumstances
The cop didn’t draw his gun until his head was already busted open and bleeding. If he waited any longer, he would’ve been too incapacitated to do anything at all, and who knows what rape/assault/murder could’ve happened to him and his family had he not used his gun. The fact that the cop waited until he was wounded to use his gun already shows how much patient the cop had.
BUY AN HD TV AT HOWARDS...
watch the game at home.
I’m outfitting myself with a bulletproof security bubble so I can attend games next year.
I love this team.
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