A Mormon Marines view on the Shooting

by pendletonmike on Jun 25, 2009 9:40 PM PDT Comment 32 comments

When I found this web site I was excited to have landed in an area with die hard fans like myself. I am a humble person of religion and a hard Marine all at the same time. To see people say how these guys should have been killed sickens me. Were you there? How do you know what happened? Sometimes you need to wait until the truth comes out.

I had no idea that one of these guys is a Marine. While I was reading the posts on the first thread on this tragedy I was infuriated about some of the things that were said. I really want to be impartial being that I am a Marine that has gone to war for another country because I knew if I was in that situation I would want someone to help me because I could not help myself. So here are some things on my mind and I want some of you to think about…

1) As a Marine I feel that you should eliminate the threat, and if the Officer felt his family was in danger, then a head shot makes sense. If there are two assailants then you need to get one of them out of the picture. So I feel that I may have done the same thing if I were put in that situation.

2) As a Latter Day Saint (Mormon), I don’t feel that you should kill unless you really feel someone has put a major threat on your life. Would the assault have continued if he would not have ended it this way? If he didn’t have the gun how would it have ended for him? We don’t know these things and never will… so let’s not speculate on things we will never know about.

3) It makes me sick to know that one of my brothers (fellow Marine), was placed within an inch of his life. It’s enough to join the worlds most elite fighting force what kind of person you are. Some feel they are Superman, but we all bleed.

4) If you can sit back and say "I wish these scumbags would have been killed." …….. What if the guy shot was your son/brother/father? How would you feel then?

Many people are hypocritical when it comes to things like this. For example, and this is something that has happened to me but I will not share names.

A Marine in Iraq was killed during a humanitarian mission. I was with this man, and he loved what we were doing. He always spoke highly on the people of the country. During this mission he was killed by a man wearing an I.A (Iraq Army) uniform. His family was back at home talking about all of the good he was doing out there, and then after he was killed they wanted all of the troops brought home. We were making the lives of the people in that town better, we knew that. I wrote a letter to his parents to express how sad he would be to hear his parents speak that way, and that the man that shot him was from Syria. They felt horrible about the way they bad mouthed us. It took them 4 months to find out what really happened, and they have to live with the way they acted. They now help any way they can to support our warfighters.

Let’s not jump up and bad mouth anyone until we know what happened. There is a family in the hospital hoping that one of there sons will live through the night. Have you ever had to do that? I hope not. At the same time there is an officer of the law who just had a very traumatic experience. It’s not in human nature to want to kill someone, which is why I think he really had feared for his life. Lets not bad mouth any of the people involved until we find out what really happened. If you just read this and think I am full of crap and couldn’t be more wrong, then you need to look in the mirror and re-evaluate your life, and the way you treat people. HH lets not show our asses on this one. We are a family friendly site, and I would like to stay that way.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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Comments

I think you are asking too much of people

To expect people to avoid emotional responses when they are used to coming here precisely to engage in venting their emotions here… I think your expectations of people is too high. People snap. They come here to snap.

by Rev Halofan on Jun 25, 2009 10:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rev I totally understand...

and nobody on here can vent quite like you. With that being said, these are human beings and I feel that we have intelligent and down to earth people on HH. I just want to vent how I felt after reading all of the posts. While keeping in mind that we don’t know who started it and what really happened. I would love to know now but only time will tell.

"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana

by pendletonmike on Jun 25, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is a good point

I would hope people here vent their feelings in a n intelligent, considerate manner.

by Rev Halofan on Jun 25, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

With all due respect, Mike,

your challenge here is going to be that both sides of this event involve representatives of honorable institutions which exist to stand in harms way for the benefit of the rest of us. So it matters very little which side the truth stands upong, the public reaction is going to disappoint the brotherhood on side of the guilty party.

We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.

by Stirrups on Jun 25, 2009 10:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well said

This isn’t a cut and dry issue. It’s difficult to keep such objective perspective, but we must.

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Jun 25, 2009 11:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

While the issue is pretty complicated

And no we don’t know anything. I can think we can all agree that violence towards our fellow men (or women) is an awful awful thing, and we would all better off if violence simply was not a part of life. But it is not, and we can well wish those involved in this incident (reserving judgement until the facts are released).

RIP #34

by linkbruin on Jun 26, 2009 12:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The point here made by PM is a good one

We all have strong tribal affiliations of one kind or another (or else we wouldn’t be blogging on this site). Just like there are good and bad people who are cops, there are good and bad people who are marines. The fact that both cops and marines put their lives on the line for us is connection that I haven’t quite worked through yet.

It is absolutely appropriate that there be strong emotional reactions to the incident. It’s pretty freaking scary and while not all of us have been to Iraq or been on the blue line, we all have been in a stadium parking lot. However, prejudgement without all the facts is foolhardy and will almost always result is a retraction of some sort. Despite posts to contrary, I cannot believe that any of us seriously wants anyone to die or be seriously injured.

Let’s just be patient for the facts to develop and be mindful and respectful of others, in and out of the ball park. It’s a game people. It’s supposed to be fun. There has been way too much death associated with this team this year. I hope this is the last.

This season just seems jinxed. If it can go wrong, it does

by Moondoggy on Jun 26, 2009 6:14 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Thing about brotherhoods and organizations generally lionized in our society

is that theres always people in them that dont live up to the standard. There are dirty cops, God knows Ive met some real asshole firefighters, and as for the USMC..generally, salt of the earth. But you do run into guys like my best friend from high school’s old man. He was a marine, did two tours of ’Nam, real war hero. Used to beat the shit out of my friend at the slightest provocation.

This could turn out to be a marine whos strayed, a trigger happy cop, both or neither. I’m just sayin.

Get Aybar off this team. Now.

by HaloDutch on Jun 26, 2009 6:17 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs

Both you and Moondoggy. What you said.

.... as sexy as socks on a rooster.

by opiejeanne on Jun 26, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A crappy Marine is often refered as a shitbag or Turd

with that being said, “if you polish a turd with 13 weeks of boot camp. He is just a shiny turd.” There is always bad in with the good, but lets not focus on the bad part of the good majority. Very nice posts HaloDutch and Moondoggy. I was a little beat up by the early posts from the other thread and wanted a little more from the fans here.

"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana

by pendletonmike on Jun 26, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW, my son is a policeman, and I support law enforcement...

…that acknowledged, I intentionally did not post anything about this incident. We need more facts. Les wait and get more evidence before making judgments.

One way or the other, this is a well reasoned post.

by sothball on Jun 26, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I cannot imagine

what it must be like knowing that my son places himself in harm’s way every day for the greater good. Both you and PM’s father should be proud that you raised sons that are willing to sacrifice what’s dear to separate the rest of us from chaos and anarchy. Thank you.

This season just seems jinxed. If it can go wrong, it does

by Moondoggy on Jun 27, 2009 3:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the kind words, although...

…he’s an officer in Redondo Beach. Not the toughest assignment out there! Last summer we worked at the satellite station at the pier…during the day shift. You can imagine the difficulty factor. All those bikini-clad young ladies…
He wants to be promoted, so he needs to take a variety of assignments. He’s currently the DUI enforcement officer, which is something I doubt could ever do (handling/processing drunks). But he seems to handle it.
In fairness to your comment about chaos and anarchy, he has had to respond to some nasty incidents (suicides, “family” disputes, traffic accidents, week-old dead bodies). He’s also been in a couple of fights, but nothing too bad. Anyway, thanks again!

by sothball on Jun 27, 2009 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I lived in Palos Verdes for four years

so I am familiar (thankfully not acquainted) with RB’s finest. It definitely has the best talent on earth (IMHO and I’ve done A LOT of traveling), but when the sun gets hot, south bay is only a hop skip and a jump from some pretty nasty parts of LA. My thoughts are with your son.

This season just seems jinxed. If it can go wrong, it does

by Moondoggy on Jun 27, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You get a fair amount of the drunk and disorderly crowd

In all the South Bay (Manhattan/Hermosa/Redondo) beach cities in the summer. Especially in the late afternoon (people have been drinking all day) and again at night when the bars fill up. I don’t think the police have it easy by any means!

by Brew Angel on Jun 27, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yes.

As DUI enforcement officer, he has his hands full. He works every Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday night…and he had lots of "customers’!

by sothball on Jun 27, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

When he worked at the pier (3 month duration)...

…it was mostly quiet. The only difficult times were holidays (4th of July and Labor Day). 4th of July got out of control. They had a running series of gang fights. They had to call for help from Torrance and Hermosa PD. It finally took 30-35 officers to end the fighting and detain the bad guys.

My son is a god guy…he has a strong protective instinct. I imagine he make’s a damn good police officer.

BTW, his class was taped for the inaugural reality show “The Academy” on Fox Reality. He was never a “focus” of any of the episodes, but he is in a lot of the background shots.

by sothball on Jun 27, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is something to hold in high regards...

no matter what “job” you do you are still on officer of the law. In the end its all about the title you hold, Peacekeeper, that will draw the attention.

"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana

by pendletonmike on Jun 27, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have enormous respect for what he does on a daily basis.

I hope it didn’t sound like I was minimizing his efforts. He truly DOES face potentially life-threatening events every time he pulls over a vehicle.

In 1993, officer Martin Ganz – a Manhattan Beach officer – pulled over a driver right after Christmas. The driver – an ex-con with 2 strikes – emerged from the vehicle blasting away with a handgun. Officer Ganz was instantly killed. It was especially traumatic because 1) His nephew was on a ride-along (he was a witness to his uncle’s murder) and 2) he attended the church I attended at that time. We didn’t know him personally, but we had seen him on occasion at church/school functions.

My son currently patrols about 5-8 miles south of where officer Ganz was murdered. I realize the potential danger he faces during each work shift.

by sothball on Jun 27, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the basic theme is once again someone got beaten up/victimized in the A parking lot

we don’t know what happened since both sides and the 911 call aren’t corroborating any of the statements. Of course the cop was victimized and the ones that got shot are victimized.

Moondoggy and HaloDutch put it perfectly; the truth will surface soon

by ladybug on Jun 26, 2009 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs