Aftermath of Bullpen Meltdown in Detroit
The worst defeat a fan can witness of his or her team is the loss of a hard earned lead in a game by an agonizing meltdown of an inept bullpen. The hopes your team was going to get the W can turn in a heartbeat as we saw Sunday when four walks, an error, and a grand slam later the Angels had turned a possible victory in to defeat.
Bill Shaikin, reporting for the LA Times, did'nt need to get inside the clubhouse to gage the mood Mike Scioscia (or somebody else) was in immediately after the game:
Reporting from Detroit -- The expletive could be heard loud and clear. The clubhouse doors still were closed, but the four-letter frustration pierced the doors and echoed into the adjacent hallway.
Whoa, it looks like Bulger and Arredondo did'nt escape the heat even though Bulger refused to talk with reporters after the game:
After the game, Bulger declined to comment. Scioscia said he would consult with Reagins on today's off day about possible personnel moves involving setup men.
This quote from Scioscia may confirm what Ken Rosenthal was talking about when he said many teams were looking for a shortstop and the Angels could do well to bring up Brandon Wood and trade Erick Aybar for a bat or a reliever:
And Manager Mike Scioscia, who preaches in-house solutions wherever possible, said General Manager Tony Reagins is trying to find a reliever in trade.
"It's not easy to go out there and get the quality of pitcher you're looking for," Scioscia said. "Tony is on the phone every day with teams. If something is available, we'll consider it."
So it looks like a bullpen with a record comparable to that of the Washington Nationals may have finally forced the hands of Soth and the Ninja to finally look outside the Angels clan for some help. Which player(s) Scioscia is so loyal to and holds so dear is he going to have to part with to cure his ailing bullpen? Will a bat come in such a trade package as well?
Does Brandon Wood figure in to any of this or is he being held in Salt Lake to preserve his status as the next future star slugger for other teams to drool over? If the Angels brought Wood up and he failed to produce to expectations his trade value might be diminished. In Salt Lake, Wood keeps his numbers high and the mystique is kept alive and well.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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The shyt has hit the fan.
RIP NICK ADENHART
by Funke5ive on Jun 8, 2009 12:59 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
it certainly appears so
maybe they’ll actually make a deal instead of talking about it. Reagins (obviously) isn’t afraid to pull the trigger…. hopefully, we can get a solid reliever and Woody up here within the next couple weeks.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
I've had it
Vlad hits like a sissy, Lackey wants to leave, and Kendrick is a bust.
If we don’t win at least the next 8 of 10, I’m changing teams to the Red Sox. I’m going to Ebay right now to check out the Josh jerseys and the Neil Diamond albums.
Angel Pitching (Adenhart), Angel Defense - get past that.
I didn't say it wouldn't be tough
Not sure that is worse than the Josh jersey and the Neil Diamond albums.
Angel Pitching (Adenhart), Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 8, 2009 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Neil Diamond?
Neil Diamond aint so bad. After all, he’s just a parody of himself. While someone like Lou Reed is, now at least, a parody of Neil Diamond. Who is worse?
I think Sux fans listen to spandex 80’s rock or nu-metal more than Neil “Forever in Blue Jeans” Diamond.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jun 8, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I is a-talkin' 'bout "Sweet Caroline" sox theme song.
If I am to become a sox bandwagoner, I need to learn the words!
Angel Pitching (Adenhart), Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 8, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
oh god...I had no idea that was theme song...
ugh.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jun 8, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup. They play it at the 7th inning stretch.
But to make up for it, they play some Dropkick Murphys at the end of the game.
Not the 7th
The Sox still play “Take Me Out to the Ballgame” like any other team. “Sweet Caroline” is played before the bottom of the 8th.
by George Kaplan on Jun 9, 2009 3:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Apologies.
My wife and I attended an Angel game at Fenway a couple of years ago. I recall it was late in the game, and thought it was after “Take me out to the ballgame” (like we play “Buttercup”).
Truth is, I don’t recall for sure. I take your correction.
No apologies necessary
Not even for the confession of attending a game at Fenway.
Truth be told, I think the purpose of playing the song as a sing-along in the middle of the 8th is to help sober up the drunks by inducing oxygen into their bodies.
by George Kaplan on Jun 9, 2009 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions
...and truth be told, we actually liked Fenway.
I wore my Angels cap, and people were actually friendly. The guy that sat next to us must have asked about a 1000 questions about the Angels. He know a lot about what was happening with our team. Surprised both of us.
So
My becoming a sox fan if we don’t win the next 8-10 (7-9 now) shouldn’t be so bad! That’s a relief.
“Sweet Caroline, good times never somethin’ somethin’ somethin’ – (I’m a slow learner).
Angel Pitching (Adenhart), Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 10, 2009 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not hard to imagine a 2010 Halos team without...
… Figgy, Vlad or Lackey. The 2009 season may prove to be the end of an era, the final gasp of the 2002 season and the seasons it inspired afterwards.
First Angels Home Game: September 04, 1969
if that's not a comma splice in the second sentence, then i don't know know what is.
but i really could care less.
RIP #34
If you can care less it means that you care a bit.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jun 12, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
opinion
Ok, so I’ve had a few cocktail but here goes. This team is in need of some shot in the arm. In december I went to Vegas and put down $100 on them to win the WS. I really don’t mind loosing if its competitive but what I’ve seen so far has been insulting. There is no reason why we should have the record we have so far. Sure the Nick situation took some understandable attention away but its time to regroup. The bullpin and hitting has been horrible. I realize we are 3rd in BA but appartently that doesn’t get us to the WS which is what its all about. So with that in mind its time to make a command decision and get send this team in the proper direction, I beleive the first step is Wood!, then address the bullpin, Ninga needs to show that everyone is accountable and make the hard decisions to DFA when necessary. At this point I feel I wasted $100 at the start of the year, please change my mind. With that in mind, its time for one more Hefenwiser!
by sunshine thermometer on Jun 8, 2009 1:54 AM PDT reply actions
If we had 1/2 the bullpen meltdowns we have had
We would be 5 games AHEAD of Texas. IT is the bullpen.
by Rev Halofan on Jun 8, 2009 2:02 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
+ infinity
…couldn’t have said it better myself Rev…time for a dramatic makeover of the bullpen!
Miss you Nick...! RIP
Of course it's the bullpen
at least, if you’re talking about the difference between last year’s 100-win team and this year’s ~85-win (at this point) team, and it is the bullpen that the FO must address post-haste if we are to secure a postseason berth.
I am sure you will agree nonetheless that our offense, as it stands now, is not dependable enough to secure postseason success. Sure, with our starters and a decent pen we do have the potential to win it all, but only if our offense is at its peak of production—which is not likely against typical postseason pitching.
That’s why I think the bullpen is not the only problem that needs to be addressed. I’m not suggesting we give away the future to win today; I said at the start that I thought this would be something of a rebuilding year. But why not at least field the best lineup the organization has to offer now? If we just had more dependable singles hitters, or even a few who can hit behind a runner rather than GIDP, that would make a significant and probably sufficient difference.
Agree completely
It is so sad. I’m not worried about making trades to be in a position to win it all. That is a fantasy at this point. I just want us to play good baseball. A couple arms in the bullpen would help so much!
Agree it's the bullpen
But why is the bullpen so much worse than last year? It’s largely the same cast of characters from 2008, with the notable exception being K-Rod. O’Day pitched in 30 games and was not dominant; Bulger pitched in 14 games and was pretty much what we are getting this year. Speier was crap in 2008, but Arredondo was lights out.
Shields was healthy and pitched good in 2008, and our starting pitching did not have extended time on the DL (exception being Escobar). Garland, Santana and Saunders pitched over 600 innings combined.
Has the weak starting pitching in 2009 exposed the bullpen? If so, is trading Aybar and getting a RP in return really going to fix the situation?
The weak starting pitching in 2009?
I don’t know if they still do, but the Angels starters had the lowest ERA as a group not that long ago. I would have to think they are averaging above average innings per start as wel.
This is probably one of those opinions you can brush off because there are no numbers to support it
But having one guy at the end games set the tone for everyone else, seems pretty important.
If your closer is Brian Fuentes and he is befuddled at times trying to get outs, what message does that send to the rest of the pen? He is just another guy.
You need a guy that is going to stop the bleeding and he may not have been perfect, but you need a guy like K-Rod that can go out and get those 62 saves, even with seemingly diminished stuff by Angels’ fans standards.
Yeah, he is long gone and shouldn’t even be mentioned – but I believe the success the closer has trickles down to the rest of his mates in the bullpen.
Except for Darren Oliver, the Angels’ bullpen are just a bunch of guys.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
Which is why we need to hire Percy to come back as bullpen coach
Teach these guys what it means to man-up in their roles!
by Stirrups on Jun 8, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If and when he finally hangs them up
Maybe he can have the same influence with the Angels’ relievers as apparently Nolan Ryan has with Texas’ pitching staff in 2009.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
And remember
he was Arredondo’s mentor and confidant. Big brother left too soon.
Angel Pitching (Adenhart), Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 8, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
How serious is the Angles' front office about 2009?
The answer to this question will be self-evident over the next couple of weeks. Baseball games are won by scoring more runs that your opponent. You can get more hits, steal more bases, and make more great defensive gems. But if you don’t score more runs than your opponent you lose. Period.
Last year’s 100 wins were a fluke. Historically, teams who score 765 runs and give up 697 runs end up with a lot closer to 88 wins than 100 wins. The fact is that the Angels have had 1 good offensive season in the last 5 years, when they scored 822 runs in 2007. The only reason they’ve had success despite a very average offense is very good starting pitching and a stellar bullpen, which has managed to limit the number of runs scored by opponents.
What’s the point? Right now the Angels are on pace to score 766 runs this season – virtually identical to last year’s 765. This means that the very mediocre offense we have this year is pretty much the same as the mediocre offense we had last year. What’s different is that the 268 runs allowed so far projects a total of 789 runs allowed for the season. Historically, teams that score 766 runs and give up 789 runs tend to win about 78 or 79 games. This is the current state of the 2009 Angels.
So the current state of the teams can and should be addressed from tow sides. For one, the Halos must start scoring more runs. After 55 games, he entire infield minus Morales has has 6 HRs. That may be fine for 1909 or even 1971, but it’s a total sham for 2009. The team’s batting average of .275 is above the AL average. But thier team slugging of .406 is their worst since 2001, and we all remember what happened during that dreadful season. Angels don’t need guys who can hit more singles and steal more bases. They need guys who can hit more liners into the gap and over the wall.
And of course the 2009 Angels bullpen is the worst in the AL this season and the team’s worst in the Scioscia era. It’s had to find anything good to say about the performance of the relief corps this year. It’s also painfully obvious that there is absolutely no immediate help at all in the teams’ minor league system. How did such a team strength transform into a liability over night?
This makes Kelvim Escobar insertion into the starting rotation all the more of a mystery. Why place is right arm, twice DL-ed since 2005, under the stress of 100 pitches every 5 days, ,and thereby knocking the surprisingly rock steady Matt Palmer out of the rotation when instead he could be inserted into the bullpen give it some much needed stability. Escobar was a proven, successful closer with the Blue Jays before he joined the Angles. Wouldn’t it make more sense to ease his right shoulder/arm/elbow back into the role of a starter by providing help to a floundering bullpen? And if not Escobar, then whom?
So how serious is the Angles’ front office about 2009? We shall soon find out. Figgins, Aybar, Izturis and Kendricks are all expendable, and probably have some trade value. They all have strengths as MLBers. But their strengths are not the strengths that the Angels need right now. The Halos could lose 2 of the 4 and not even notice the difference. Unfortunately, the Angels are probably more than 1 trade away from correcting the ship. But of they don’t make a proactive move to address the team’s glaring weaknesses, and do it soon, I think it raises questions about the Front office’s commitment to trying to win the AL pennant this year. We shall see.
First Angels Home Game: September 04, 1969
by dzanr on Jun 8, 2009 7:25 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
nice post overall… [ Angles = Angels :) ] …my only disagreement is belief that throwing 100 pitches every 5 days is more stressful than running Escobar out there 2, 3, or even 4 days in a row as a setup man or closer…or the dynamic of Fuentes moving to setup man? How would he react to that?
Miss you Nick...! RIP
Fuentes hasn't been lights out but...
I think when you prioritize the problems in the bullpen (and there are many!), Fuentes is not on top.
I think Fuentes is a streaky kind of guy and if we could get him the ball on a regular basis he might get into the groove. The problem is getting him the ball in the first place. That is one think Frankie had…the ball in his hand at least once a week.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jun 8, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
well how serious are they about 2010 and beyond?
by letting Wood rot in AAA in favor of giving ABs to gary matthews and aybar and izturis, it seems pretty clear this team does not have a long term plan to me. We live year to year and deal with the consequences as they come. Tony and Soth seem to be more focused on winning TODAY even when letting Wood develop helps us tomorow and maybe even today as well.
this team is old and in need of a makeover
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jun 8, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A lot of truth in this post
but I am always annoyed by Pythagoras and his fascist expectations. The Angels play a different way which has a track record of baffling Pythagoras, so to attempt to please him would require blowing up the current team pretty thoroughly.
I think a few singles hitters could very well give the Angels the offense they need, if they were dependable, high-average singles hitters who could manage to hit behind a runner when needed, rather than GIDPing all the time. We get plenty runners on base; what we need to do is to get them home, and a few dependable singles hitters would do that more dependably than one power hitter.
This isn't true
If you take a look at their previous records, they DON’T baffle Pythagoras. Yes, they do a little better, but we’re talking 1 – 4 games better, not 11 better like they did last year. Last year was a fluke.
So even if we assume that Scioscia’s managerial skills and the Angels overall strategy leads to them doing 4 games better than their Pythagorean record, they’re on pace to win…
84 games! That’s mediocrity at it’s finest, and while it may win the division, it certainly won’t be an easy battle.
And your notion of adding singles hitters is exactly what the Angels don’t need. They need power hitters and guys who get on base.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
Well, they do get on base pretty well right now
And singles hitters are “guys who get on base”, right? Look, I’m not recommending we trade for singles hitters. I’m just saying that we have people in our system right now who could do a better job at advancing runners than Aybar or even Vlad right now. Singles are much more productive than GIDPs, and outs to deep right more productive than foul popups to an infielder.
And as far as the Pythagorean argument goes, others have made this case in these pages, most recently WiHaloFan, so I defer to him and his superior grasp on stats. I am having trouble getting the link to embed properly, but the article is “Are The Angels Lucky or Good?” from March 4 of this year.
I agree with most of this
Except your bullpen solution. How do you know that turning Escobar into a reliever would help his shoulder? Would warming up fast and throwing 2 -3 innings all out be better for his arm? I don’t know, but I do know that you want to give the most innings to your best pitchers. So would you rather give 120 innings over the rest of the season to Kelvim Escobar or Matt Palmer? If you say Matt Palmer, you need to look a little bit closer at their career stats.
The bullpen has mostly been hurt by bad luck. Their fielding independent pitching isn’t nearly as bad as their actual ERA’s. And unless they’ve forgotten how to pitch, Shields (when he gets back), Arredondo, and Fuentes should all improve. Speier may very well be done as an effective reliever, and who knows what Bulger really is, but those three have to get better. And when they do, the Angels will start winning some close games.
As for the hitting, I’m not sure there’s much the Angels can do other than bring Wood and Rodriguez up and see what they can do. Trade Izturis or Aybar for relief help and give Wood a starting role.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
Just had a thought
There may be another problem with keeping Wood in the minors. It seems like the last couple of years, every time we explored a trade, the other team (naturally) wanted our best prospects in return. That usually meant Wood + someone else. As long as we keep Wood in “prospect” status, this will keep happening, making trades harder than they should be. If you play him in the majors, two things happen: 1) you get to find out how good he is, and 2) if he’s good, nobody will expect you to give him up in a trade once he’s established. I mean, nobody dealing with Tampa expects to get Longoria in return.
I dunno, probably talking crazy out my ass, but the thought just occurred to me.
by leftwing on Jun 8, 2009 7:59 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That's It!
It’s time for Quinlan to take the mound.
by ttsec on Jun 8, 2009 8:08 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the logical, informative fan post....
its seems a rarity these days on HH.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jun 8, 2009 9:13 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I blame Sam Miller
At the beginning of the season, Sam ran a “what if?” column, showing a best case scenario of “what if everyone performed to the 99th percentile of their ability?” We all laughed a bit and hoped that it might actually happen.
Now the guys are mostly performing below the 50th percentile (a number I just pulled out of my a**) of their ability, making all completely terrible.
Also, Sam drafted Milton Bradley with the pick right before I was going to get him. So I blame him for my complete and utter suckitude in the HalosHeaven Fantasy League as well, despite Milton Bradley’s poor performance thus far.
C’mon, Sam! Write a negative column exploring what will happen if every player plays to about the 10th percentile—or worse!—of their ability! You’re the only man who can save LAA now!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Er, the Angels!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Two responses to your own post?????
Last year, I got booted in my arse for replying to my own post ONCE.
Let the piling on begin!!!!!!
Yeah, yeah
I remembered two things I wanted to add. Semi-asinine things, yes, but still. I’m forgetful on these boards these days…comes w/ being a HH vetruhn?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Some Bullpen Relief Options
If the FO is really going to look at external solutions to the bullpen woes then really who is available that could make an impact? The Pirates seem to be willing to give up any decent player for 50 cents on the dollar so maybe we could Matt Capps, who has only given up 1 run in his last 7 and 2/3 of an inning, on the relatively cheap. Also, Jose Valverde is coming back soon for Houston (who is currently in last place in the central) and LaTroy Hawkins has filled in admirably so maybe the Angels go after him. Do any of these seem like viable options? Do people have any other ideas?
I think we need to calm down
Bulger was pitching just fine recently until he came into the game with two runners on base and was the victim of a terrible throw by Matthews and an even worse stab by Morales. Yes, he then came unglued like it was April all over again. Looking at the big picture, though, he’s striking guys out and getting the job done. I think he’ll be a contributor for us.
Arredondo is having a sophomore slump, obviously. The guy just can’t throw a strike anymore, which seems odd as his control last year seemed unusually good for a guy who was a shortstop just a couple years ago. Hes young enough, and Mike and Butch have a pretty good track record with young pitchers so I think he’ll be fine.
Neither one of Fuentes or Oliver has been nails, but they’ve been solid enough, and Fuentes is finally striking guys out. I think now that our starting rotation is rounding into shape, it shouldn’t be too long now that guys are consistently going into the 7th-8th innings, putting less pressure on our leaky bullpen. I’m not opposed to outside help, but let’s be realistic here: there are about 20 teams looking for bullpen help and really not many arms to go around. And if we trade Wood for a reliever, I’m going to start following the Dodgers.
I know this stat is way overated but Fuentes is leading the AL in saves...
Kinda funny eh? I guess Frankie woulda had probably 20 or so by now.
#34
by stuck in Romania on Jun 9, 2009 11:06 AM PDT reply actions
The weak bullpen and blown saves problem has hit many teams across the leagues this year.
I’m not sure if it is a phenomenon but relief pitching seems to be lacking everywhere, not just the Angels. The Rays don’t even have a closer from what I have read at DRays Bay.
I am the Iron Man
Exactly as you said
This is perfect illustration of the weakness of the Saves as a measure of performance. The Angels also lead the league in save opportunities (28) and are tied for the league lead in blown saves (11). If the offense weren’t so weak they’d score more runs in the games they win and thus there were be fewer save opportunities. In 2008 the Angels led the AL in save opportunities with 89; no other team even reached 70. That the main reason Frankie has so many saves. As for Fuentes, he’s had trouble all season keeping his ERA under 5:00, and has given up 30 hits/walks in only 20 innings pitched. It feels like a roll of the dice with fingers crossed every time he takes the mound.
First Angels Home Game: September 04, 1969
There is a combination here...
If we score more runs, there is a lot less pressure on the starting pitching and the bullpen. I think if we can get a decent arm for Aybar, do it two weeks ago and get Wood up here.
Although our offense might not be that bad, more offense won’t hurt. If someone wants Aybar, why not deal him for an ARM. Even a AAA arm. Wood in the line up will help. Scoring runs will help.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
stupid computer.
I think if a move could be made to send Aybar away and get a decent relief arm, we should do that deal two weeks ago. No doubt in my mind that with greater offense, our starters and bullpen would have a lot pressure to hang on to 1 run leads.
I
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

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