Jays Reject Ninja's Overzealous Offer

"The Angels did indeed make a run at Halladay, offering Jered Weaver(notes) plus the Blue Jays’ pick of outfield or infield prospects, including Brandon Wood(notes), but it wasn’t enough."

Seriously, what the F is Ricciardi ON?

over 2 years ago Clutch 27 comments 1 recs |

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Gordon Edes

is a notorious exaggerator, prevaricator and all around front-running Red Sox Nation stroker.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 25, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions

Ah, thanks for the tip

Though that did seem fairly straightforward—I mean, with “Here, take Weaver, plus your pick of prospects and we’ll even give you Wood,” what more can the guy possibly WANT?

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Jul 25, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Agreed. I do not buy this BS

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Jul 27, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Halladay for Weaver makes no sense

You make a minor improvement, NOT a major improvement.

Halladay for Saunders I could see, as the starting 4 is imposing and Joe may have peaked but still carries low-cost innings eater with him to TOR – add in a pitching prospect (Reckling) that might become a mid-rotation kid plus a future all star infielder with power (Wood) and we get a starter who is as solid as it gets to take us deep in the playoffs as well as lowering Lackey’s price in the offseason.

Trading Weaver for Halladay might make sense if it is a one – for – one deal and we negotiate a three year extension for Roy before the trade is finalized. MAYBE.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 25, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

No go

Trading Weaver for Halladay might make sense if it is a one – for – one deal and we negotiate a three year extension for Roy before the trade is finalized. MAYBE.

Blue Jays already said there would be no pre-trade negotiations for extensions.

by George Kaplan on Jul 26, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions

What all star game is Wood playing in?

Pacific Coast League?

Nobody is trading an ace for Joe Saunders/Reckling/Wood.

I’d trade Weaver in a package for Halladay in a second. You’d have a chance in a playoff series with Boston having Doc/Lackey 1/2

by NewportHalo on Jul 25, 2009 3:47 PM PDT reply actions

But would you make the playoffs with a rotation of

Lackey – Halladay – Saunders – Santana – Palmer/O’Sullivan/Loux

Maybe … Maybe not.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 25, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Much better chance with Halladay.....

then with Jered Weaver. Halladay is one of the 5 premier pitchers in the game.

by NewportHalo on Jul 25, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Halladay has won exactly one more game than Weaver this year. One.

You are likely to get one or two more wins from Halladay for the season, but that’s not where we need them. We need to add someone of Halladay’s abilities to Weaver and Lackey; if you traded out Saunders for Halladay you could expect 3 or 4 more wins with Halladay than you would have had with Saunders for the rest of the season.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Jul 25, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

relief

This year, anyway, the Angels would benefit a lot more from getting someone who can pitch in 35 games rather than 11 games the rest of the year, especially considering that they’ve had a lot more trouble with the 6th-8th innings than with the first five.

Halladay is only a marginal improvement over Weaver or Saunders (who is due to start pitching much better). To the extent the Angels need him, they need him to replace Palmer/Loux/O’Sullivan. If they have to give up WTY, for example, the net gain is negligible, IMHO.

Much better to get someone who will displace Speier and/or Bulger.

by jjackflash on Jul 26, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions

marginal improvement

That is a ridiculous statement.

Halladay is a huge improvement.

The Halos should get relief help as well. A team will give them a middle reliever cheap. That is not a major move. This is a major move.

A post season rotation with Halladay and Lackey can win the damn thing.

I guess Riccardi is dumb enough to do the deal with Saunders….Tony should accept immediately.

by NewportHalo on Jul 26, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions

How is Halladay a "huge" improvement over Weaver?

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Jul 26, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions

a little thing called experience...

They want power, We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Jul 26, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Not

in the postseason (WTY has more experience there). As I said, you’re talking about a marginal improvement – winning only a game or two more than you would with WTY. Getting some help in the pen could help the Angels win a lot more than 2 more games the rest of the way.

Halladay makes a lot more sense if he’s replacing the Angels’ #5 starter than if he’s replacing the #2 starter. But if Saunders or Weaver is dealt, again I ask: how is that a “huge” improvement? How many more games will they win?

by jjackflash on Jul 27, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions

wins

if you evaluate pitchers on wins………well there isn’t much for us to discuss.

by NewportHalo on Jul 26, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions

I guess not, since wins are the bottom line.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Jul 26, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions

What yardstick are you using if not wins?

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Jul 26, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions

How about quality starts? How about whether the pitcher gives his team a legitimate chancce to win?

If you judge solely on wins, then I guess Escobar with his 11-18 record in 2006 was just a crappy pitcher…never mind that he had the lowest ERA of any pitcher with a losing record…

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Jul 26, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Ok, you're right about that.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Jul 26, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions

However, using wins is a decent shortcut

for people too lazy to go find the stats on quality starts.

Backing up a bit, does Weaver have fewer quality starts than Saunders?

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Jul 26, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Hmmm. Quality starts.

It appears that Weaver, despite his higher ERA, has more games that the Angels have gone on to win than Halladay has. Out of the 20 games Weaver started, he has won 10, lost 3, and the Angels have gone on to win another 4.

Halladay has won 11 of 19, lost 3, and the team has not won any more than those 11.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Jul 26, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions

That could have more to do with

The Angels’ tendency to stage comebacks and the Blue Jays’ lack thereof, rather than the individual pitchers’ abilities. Good research, however!

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Jul 26, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions

And so

If the Angels’ are already winning those games anyway, how much of a difference will Halladay make in those games? They can’t “double-win” them.

by jjackflash on Jul 27, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions

True, but

Halladay at this point probably provides the team more of a CHANCE to win, even if it’s a comeback from 1-0 or 2-0 or 3-0 or forbid 4/5-0 than does, say, Ervin Santana.

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Jul 27, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Its going to take 4 players

The only way it makes sense is if Weaver is already asking a raise. And guessing we dont want to deal with Boras again, even tho Roy and Jered have the same agent.

They want power, We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Jul 25, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions