Red Sux WS Dopers
by SactoFan on Jul 30, 2009 9:55 AM PDT
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Well here it is folks, staright from the front page of the NY Times, Ramirez and Ortiz BOTH tested positive for PEDs in 2003. Let's see them spin their way out of this one. It will be interesting to see how ESPN handles this as I noticed there was no mention on ESPN this morning before coming to work at 9 am. Which is noon on the east coast.....hmmmm, can we some how suspect they're purposely ignoring this? Naaaahhh. Enjoy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html?_r=1&hp
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I have been waiting
for this. We already knew about Manny but I figured Ortiz would get nabbed too eventually. Honestly, at this point, they might as well just start leaking the (probably much shorter) list of those who didn’t test positive for PEDs.
+1
I’ll bet the roiders to non-roiders is 90/10. Much shorter list, the clean one is.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 30, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
sportscenter was just talking about this..
broke about 20 min. ago. they might as well just fess up now and deal with the problem so they don’t distract the team during the pennant race. maybe the mitchell report will ask for a mulligan on this one. of course this 2003 survey WAS supposed to protect the guinea pigs so i guess they couldnt of known
Meet me @ the budweiser patio
by BigBangRobbDawgg on Jul 30, 2009 10:02 AM PDT reply actions
Although I hate the Sox
this is depressing. Most of the 21st century’s greatest stars are always linked to PEDS. IMHO, this just about explains the decline of pureness in baseball… :(
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Jul 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions
Not shocking
He is a freaking obvious candidate in the who did it game.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 30, 2009 10:10 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you!
This is no “Say it ain’t so, Papi” moment. Anyone who compared the Ortiz of the 2002 Twins with he of the 2004 Sux couldn’t fail to be highly suspicious, especially comparing our pitchers’ ability to handle the two versions. This really should heighten no one’s feelings of disillusionment nor cynicism at this point.
As for me, my cynicism meters pegged when they assigned Mitchell, a member of the BoSux board, to head the commission.
GA is NOT on the list...get over that...
Vladdy on the other hand….
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jul 30, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
i could believe vladdy
but not GA
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Jul 30, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Could definitely believe Vlad used at some point
by ReggieBullits on Jul 30, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he did
He’s MUCH bigger now, and his knees are completely shot. That’s what usually goes first, just look at Bonds
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
wouldn’t it have been called turf d’éxpo up there?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 30, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
How old is he there?
He doesn’t look a day over 17. I would expect anyone’s body to change dramatically from the time they are a late teenager to mature adult. Not saying he is innocent but I would expect anyone to look a lot differently over the course of 15 years.
20
Allegedly. That’s his ’95 rookie card.
by ReggieBullits on Jul 30, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree.
In 1995 Vlad was a 158 pound rookie. He has since added nearly 80 pounds, checking in at 235 in 2009. In 1992, GA was a 190 pound rookie and now goes 225. Not a big deal.
We’ve all heard the stories of Vlad’s poor youth and what it took to get a meal on the table when he was a youngster, so you can’t rule out that his new American income was the major factor in facilitating the weight gain, but putting on almost 80 pounds in 15 years is far from comparable to adding 35 pounds in 17 years, as is the case with GA.
Anyway, I’m just sayin that I disagree with “that’s what GA looked like early on”.
by ReggieBullits on Jul 30, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That's fair.
Do we have any idea what GA weighed 2000-2003?
?
Harvey, how do you know? Seems that there is over 100 players on the list. I would not be shocked if two or three Angels were on the list.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Jul 30, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Fellow HH user, MattWelch
did some investigative statistics reporting into dudes who used a few months back. GA’s steady rise and then current, slight decline doesnt fit the profile. Sure, its a possibility but then again its a possibility for everyone, isnt it?
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jul 30, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Still don't fit.
GA would have to be juicing NOW in order to turn his curve against the norms for his age NOW. And, by “now”, i mean over the past couple fo years including today.
He can still start performing in the second half, raise his year end totals to acceptable numbers for GA (since his first half sucked), and still show numbers in relative, if not absolute, decline from his peak years.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
Sorry, didn't mean it that way
was just saying GA is doing good right now. Probably Most definitely not the right place to post that. Where’s that edit button.
I would be shocked, completely, if GA were on that list.
Vladdie would just make me sad.
Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.
If GA were on that list, I would demand a retake of the samples. That would just not pass the smell test in any way, shape or form.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
Well
I don’t know a lot about P.E.D.s But I always heard that it helped with preventing injury. But then G.A. ended up breaking down after the 2002 World Series.
Maybe its just age, but I shrug my shoulders at the entire thing.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
Me, too
Things changed after the 4/$48MM contract was signed.
I'd hate for it to be true, but it wouldn't surprise me.
See page 3 of this USA Today article from 2002 where he objects to steriod testing on the grounds of privacy. This doesn’t mean he did them. If I recall correctly, what he states here was pretty much the party-line from the players’ association. It’s this stance of the association that casts a shadow over all players, users and non-users.
http://www.usatoday.com/educate/college/healthscience/casestudies/20020916-steroids.pdf
Well, I happen to agree on the whole privacy thing, just out of principal and without reading the article
And I think that this entire episode is all the evidence I need to reinforce my belief. Privacy in the testing was “assured” up front, which is how they got so many players to submit in the first place. But it turns out that this assurance was pretty empty, since those records were subject to federal warrants and all bes were then off. Privacy easily lost.
So if you accept the moral agreement behind the original intent, wherein the MLB needed to survey the situation and get an understanding on the scope of the issue, you understand that it was critically important that donor privacy would be honored in order to realize an appropriate sample size. If the players had known that the Feds could sieze the records and do with them what they wanted, the players would have fallen to GA’s stance in greater numbers. In fact, the MLBPA would have shut it all down up front. Therefore, in hindsight, GA would have been the one who best understood the principal of individual freedoms and correctly anticpated the dangers inherent in surrendering that principal to the state.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
particularly
when, in all likelihood, it’s the government attorneys that are leaking this stuff now
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
I would not be surprised at ANYONE's name
Vlade, St. Derek, GA, Timmy, no one would surprise me at this point.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Awesome
Please get rid of Speier. "Yes, I suck."- Jose Guillen.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart, Marquis Cooper, Steve McNair, and Frank Grimes, or Grimey, as he liked to be called
by JoseGuillenSux on Jul 30, 2009 10:23 AM PDT reply actions
I love how ortiz was talking about how players should get banned for a year
i wonder how he feels about that now
Please get rid of Speier. "Yes, I suck."- Jose Guillen.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart, Marquis Cooper, Steve McNair, and Frank Grimes, or Grimey, as he liked to be called
by JoseGuillenSux on Jul 30, 2009 10:25 AM PDT reply actions
This list has been going around the internet for some time.
I don’t have a link but last time I saw it, GMJ and Troy Glaus were on it. Ramirez and Ortiz were on it as well.
Mike Napoli speaks softly and carries a big stick.
I've seen that, too. I remember looking for Vlad on that list, but didn't see him.
Whatever dude.
by Mayheminthehood on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Here is one list:
http://baseball.about.com/od/majorleagueplayers/a/drugplayers.htm
Mike Napoli speaks softly and carries a big stick.
That list
Has Glaus and Donnelly on their, but in 2004. Our World Series isn’t tainted.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
There are a million lists.
I just posted this one because it was at the top of the page when I googled, 2003 MLB Players Steroid User List.
Mike Napoli speaks softly and carries a big stick.
I thnk it's safe to say that Glaus was using in 2002.
But so was Barry, so it all evens out
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
so...you think they tried this crap
only AFTER the 2202 campaign. Plausible, not probable however
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
At this point
I just take a flyer on all this PED stuff. I pretty much assume almost everyone did it. Optimistically i think it’s weeding out of baseball now. I just take for what it is and say oh well.
And let’s hear it for the little guys! (Figgy, Eckstein)
It's academic now. They ain't giving back any of their pennants or trophies.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
Huh???
Manny received the equal of a hero’s reception from the Dodger fans after his 50 game suspension. So, I don’t think so.
I think...
the sports writers care about this crap more than the fans. The writers are so out of touch. Most of them suck anyways. Bert Blyleven not in the HOF is proof of that!
by Monkeyspanked on Jul 30, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that was pretty lame on the Dodgers fans part, only considering how much shit they would give Barry Bonds every time he played in their house.
Hypocrites.
Whatever dude.
by Mayheminthehood on Jul 30, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
What do you expect?
We’re talking about Dodger fans here. I have more respect for a freshly-pinched loaf than I do for them
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
Here's Dodger fans for you
One time I asked a guy sporting the Dodger Blue if he was excited that Manny was traded to them. He said he doesn’t like baseball just likes wearing their stuff. What the hell is that. Probably a lot of that with Dodger fans.
At least Angel gear wearing people are really fans!
by Monkeyspanked on Jul 30, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
What difference does it make?
Baseball is just going to ignore it like they always do, and eventually it will go away. Selig is spineless.
Bonds, Palmiero, AROD, McGwire, Ramierez, their all going to end up in the hall of fame. The only question is whether or not they’ll have an asterisk next to their name. Probably not…
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
I agree except I think there will be a notation of some kind to PED use
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Thats why King Bud was thinking of reinstating Rose
to try and take some of the heat off this issue.
well, if you're going to let these cheaters in the hall, why not Rose?
hell, lets let Shoeless Joe and the gang in too!
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
Oh! That's what I heard this morning on my way to court.
I had to scoot to make it in time, so I didn’t hear what that was about, just the Pete Rose part.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Bill James is working ...
on an algorithm by which you can project what a player’s stats would have been, without PEDs, adjusted by park, night game vs. day game, righty/lefty splits, color of uniform [and type of material], and the temperature of the baseball.
I hear that it shows that the only player who deserves inclusion in the Hall of Fame in the last 30 years is Freddy Patek.
Torii Hunter: Best Halo Ever.
Mario Mendoza
I see all the flim flam with them numbers creating Mario as the second greatest of all time.
Patek is my hero. At 5'4" he was the shortest (and arguably the ugliest) shortstop in baseball.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
...and I will never forget when he hit 3 HR's in a game!
…against Boston!! In Fenway!!! With Dick Enberg and Don Drysdale announcing!!!!
UN-BE-FRIGGIN-LIEVABLE!!!!!
Bravo. Maybe Bill Simmons...
… will make a big bonfire out of unsold copies of his book and throw himself into it. Then my day will be perfect.
by GrichManPoorMan on Jul 30, 2009 3:07 PM PDT reply actions
Oh my...
What a glorious day. The news of Manny and Papi doping makes me so happy, I’m elated!
Hope Red Sox nation is feeling miserable and betrayed.
Papi… didn’t he say he thinks those who used deserve a year suspension? POS, standby your word and get the hell out of baseball for a while.
(If this was an Angel, I wouldn’t be saying this… I just hate the Sox for good reason.)
I hate the bosux....
And, I am not a fan of either Manny or Papi (although Papi is obviously a classy guy, look at how he helped us through Nicks death) but overall this just saddens me as a huge baseball fan. As it now stands, I look at all players with a very scrupulous eye. Who hasn’t cheated, is less important, THAN WHO HAS. Another sad chapter in the realm of HGH, PED’s and roids.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
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