David Ortiz: Steroid User
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2009 12:33 PM PDT
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PrintI read the news today, oh boy:
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Interesting chain of events
Bill James comes out with a lengthy dismissal of steroid regulation. James works for the Sox. A week later, this story comes out in the NY Times – part owner of the Red Sox – on the day when trade deadline deals are all the buzz (the baseball equivalent of a Friday afternoon document dump).
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2009 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm with ya on the Bill James thread. You lose me on the timing.
If they wanted to bury the story, the could have chose the Buehrle perfect game news cycle. Or waited until Sunday night.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
How does this site feel about Bill James, anyway? I never really payed TOO much attention to him, but I am asking in regards to his recent article.
Don’t know if you guys read it, but he basically says the steroid issue isn’t a big deal at all because in the future, everybody will be using steroids to stay young longer, therefore no biggie. I hadn’t paid too much attention to the guy but thought it was pretty stupid, coming from a smart man.
Whatever dude.
by Mayheminthehood on Jul 30, 2009 12:37 PM PDT reply actions
I was intriggued by his arguments
but today i realize he is just John Henry’s whore.
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Does anyone know
what he has said in the past re: steroid abuse. Just wondering if he has changed his tune because of Ortiz.
shoving any man made chemical in your body to look younger or for whatever reason
that isn’t life saving, will come back eventually with Negative side effects.
There are enough natural things on this earth to cure everything that people are worried about, especially if used with one’s own positive attitude.
Everything in moderation along with a healthy attitude towards life.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Recently
There was an article in the New Yorker about the prevalent use of prescription neuroenhancers by college students and certain kinds of professionals, which concluded that it’s probably the wave of the future, much the same as James predicts re: PEDs. I think James and the author of the New Yorker article are likely correct. Just because James works for the Red Sox does not make his views any less valid.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/04/27/090427fa_fact_talbot
Now, as for the report that Ortiz was using, I think the poll is missing a choice: yawn. Nothing surprises me anymore. Surely there were some Angels on that list as well (I’m looking towards Glaus, Donnelly, Weber, Fullmer, even GA doesn’t look nearly as thick as he did in 2002-2003).
I viewed the "Bill James is next" as the "yawn" vote
and that is where my mouse went
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Just makes me upset all over again about '04 (in particular)
Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.
Ortiz was a light hitting firstbase man for the Twins during the 2002 playoffs
Suddenly, after the trade to the Sox he was a huge guy who started hitting a lot of home runs. Not too surprising that he was juicing. Nonetheless, we don’t know who else in the on the list so I’m not going to say “I told you so” to Red Sox fans.
Angels in 09!
Ortiz was not light hitting with the Twins.
He was a young 1Bman with a powerful swing that just couldnt put the whole package together.
That'll only happen if that one prospect is the second coming of Christ and redemption for mankind can only be achieved by smacking many balls out of the yard.
-The Limey
by anaheim angels on Jul 30, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
you are probably right that my "light hitting" frame wasn't quite accurate
nonetheless, the difference between 2002 and 2003 was substantial and then look at the years after that. Certainly, players improve and move into their prime years over time. The sad thing is that steroids call all of that into question. Maybe he was juicing in 2002 and that explains his decent year that year. Maybe not. Maybe, the juice didn’t help him at all and his rise was all due to his talent. Again the whole thing is bad for baseball and the game needs to be cleaned up. Here is a link to his career stats.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ortizda01.shtml?redir
Angels in 09!
Wow that is awfully gracious of you
Why did his career come to a crashing halt at such a young age? I think your head is in the sand on this one
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
huh? come crashing to a halt?
Improvement is expected going from 26 to 27 age season.
Carlos Delgado raised his SLG 60 points during that time
Richie Sexon improved his slugging by around 100 points after he got traded around that time.
Paul Konerko improved his slugging by 135 points from his age 27 to age 28 season.
As a 26 year old in his last season in Minnesota, Ortiz still OPS+d 120, and had been steadily improving the last 3 years. Coming into his prime there was no reason to suspect he wouldnt get better. While he got alot better than expected could also be due to the dimensions of Fenways extremely short RF perch and the Metrodomes big dimensions.
Lets wait to find out what substance (not necessarily even a steroid) he took before we crucify him.
That'll only happen if that one prospect is the second coming of Christ and redemption for mankind can only be achieved by smacking many balls out of the yard.
-The Limey
by anaheim angels on Jul 31, 2009 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
difrence here is
That ESPN has yet to report on the 2002 postseason results, but doesn’t a day go by without a blowjob to good ole Theo.
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
guarantee there will be an Angel or two on that list!
And dare us NOT discuss Vladdy.
I hope he never used steriods, but odds are he more than likely did. Time will Tell.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Ortiz
in the past has basically copped the “hey, it’s the Dominican, who knows what’s in all of those concoctions” when asked about what he used. I’m sure the same can be said for Vladdy. They might very well have been doing stuff without knowing exactly what they were doing.
Hint: Barry Bonds is on that list.
Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.
wasn't one
test agreement was part of the 2002 cba.
by Phineas_Fogg on Jul 30, 2009 1:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Reality vs. Perception
Barry Bonds and HIS BAD ATTITUDE = Cheating ASSHOLE
Manny and HIS HAPPY GO LUCKY ATTITUDE = Likeable CHEATER
A-Rod and HIS LYING ARROGANT ATTITUDE = Lying Cheating Phony A-HOLE
David Ortiz and HIS ATTITUDE (More Positive than Negative) = Cheating Bad Example Setting LIKEABLE GUY
These are ONLY the names that come to mind: Bring up ALL THE REST and fill in the blanks.
Point Here is the Steriod user’s attitudes and actions on the field and how they handled the questions of “Did You Use Steriods” will utlitmately determine the overall perception of these “users”.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2009 12:58 PM PDT reply actions
just curious on your take on
mark mcguire and sammy sosa
Driven into right-center field, Erstad says he has it...the Angels, world champions!
by teopeht on Jul 30, 2009 1:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with Dono, and as for the two you mentioned
Big Mac – COWARDLY cheater
Sosa – NO HABLO INGLES
Angels fan since '67
Red
Concur:
Big Mac = Ball-less Cheater
Sosa = No Habla Ingles (kinda likeable) CHEATER
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
What's your take if Wooten, Spezio, Weber, Donkey, Glaus blah blah blah
wind up on this list?
No evidence whatsoever and I hope that no one on the 2002 roster winds up on the list. But if, by chance they do, is there the same amount of venom used against our own?
Perhaps not a fair question, but my kids have been telling me I wasn’t fair for decades.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Don't forget the biggest Roid user on the 2002 club
David Eckstien
by Phineas_Fogg on Jul 30, 2009 1:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The Rhoids had the Opposite effect
They Shrunk everything around his penis as well.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know, did you see all those grand slams he hit?
If that’s not proof of roids nothing is. Conversely: Angels ’09, no grand slams, no roids.
Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.
IF......Spezio ends up on the list
Spezio = One Lucky Steriod User!
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
And.....Let Us Not Forget CANSECO
For whatever his motives are and for whatever is going on in his head and wallet, I think that Like him or Hate him, He has Opened Up the Conversation we are al having today.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
gee...what a guy
wish more of my friends were like him (and Saint Andy)
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
"It's not fair."
I sat with Ortiz in the visiting dugout in Angel Stadium in the midst of Ortiz’s horrible start this season while doing a column on him.
And as he and I sat and talked, I told Ortiz that, even as he maintained he was clean, Ramirez’s suspension would cause lots of people to link the two of them anyway.
Ortiz acknowledged that was true and it made him angry.
“(People) must be saying that all over the place already,” a disgusted Ortiz said. "I don’t care. Why do I gotta make the mistake he just made? If a reporter does bad things, I’ve gotta blame you because you’re his friend? It’s not fair.
“It’s wrong. Totally wrong. Manny is one person. I’m another person. I’m not Manny’s babysitter.
“Why should people blame me because he f——- up?”
This was five days after Ramirez was socked with the 50-game suspension.
(source)
Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.
by AlanFalcon on Jul 30, 2009 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
My favorite part is how outspoken he has been about steroid use.
Whoops!
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
This is like Clay Aiken coming out that he was gay.
Ortiz is a class act and his words about Adenart were touching.
It was the era… time to move on.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
no
Not when it seems that the main media ,ESPN, involved in this wants to do the same thing.
Where is King Bud right now? Shouldn’t he have announced something by now? How is Hank Aaron going to react to this now?
If they don’t fix it now, then when will they? That era continues on to today.
Manny getting pegged with 50 and losing 8 mil is a good start, yes?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jul 30, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe that Manny, and Ortiz got tested 15 or more times
They never tell you when you pass, so where did the tests go. Or better yet, the tests in Boston/New York were filled with what, and how?
How much was King Bud involved? Was it a don’t ask don’t tell kind of thing.
This is by far the biggest thing in sports news now, and Colin Cowherd is saying it don’t matter. ESPN seems pissed with whats happening with the list, and how the names are being released. When will the big ESPN PED special be aired?
How is anyone surprised by this?
I honestly don’t give a damn what these guys did six years ago. Let’s move on.
Test the shit out of ’em and release the test results as soon as possible.
Players/scientists will always be working to beat the tests. This is something we will always have to deal with. The problem isn’t going to go away, but we can at least make as many guys feel shitty about themselves as possible.
RIP NA
I honestly don’t give a damn what these guys did six years ago. Let’s move on.
The problem isn’t going to go away, but we can at least make as many guys feel shitty about themselves as possible.
Wouldn’t they feel more shitty about themselves if we didn’t move on and instead made a big deal about what they did six years ago?
Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.
Not really
To me this is the same as the girlfriend who won’t let go of the fact that you said she looked fat in that dress 6 years ago.
It’s over with, the issue has been addressed, whether you agree with it or not, its still been addressed.
R.I.P. King Ad-Rock #34
Boston Red Sox just announced that they picked up a major new sponsor for their Hall Of Fame.
Sunny D.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
His statement
David Ortiz issued a statement after Thursday’s game, addressing a New York Times report stating he tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003.
“I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers,” said Ortiz. “In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive. Two, I will find out what I tested positive for. And, three, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me – I will not hide and I will not make excuses.”
Source: Boston Herald
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
EHHHHHHHHHHH DOZ CHEATN SAWX EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
i think it's funny the vibe i get from espn...
bonds, big mac, sosa, palmiero are characterized as stat hungry liars and cheats, guys whose moral compass was pointed in the wrong direction, guys who would do anything even tarnish the hallowed game of baseball. keep them out of the hall of fame, they won’t get my vote. on the other hand manny and big papi on the same team that won a world series…oh well what can we really do about it now? it’s in the past, we might have a little explaining to do but let’s move on, nothing to see here folks.
I wasn't surprised at all.
Ortiz, in my eyes, was using since he came to Boston. Him and Manny got their nick names of Man Ram and Big Papi probably because they gave each other more than just steroids. ESPN will brush this off becaus they don’t want to offend blowsox nation. Screw ESPN screw Fag Papi and screw Man Ram they’re cheaters and nothing else to it.
First we had a Salmon and now we have a Trout, let's see the same results.
by angelskid2210 on Jul 30, 2009 6:13 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Let's not rationalize bad behavior
By saying that everyone was doing it.
Because it’s not true, not everyone was cheating, even if Jose Canseco’s estimates of 70% are correct. There was a sizeable number of players, we’ll never know exactly who they were, that didn’t use PEDs. Some of these honest players probably lost jobs to players that were cheating. For us to now say that we can overlook the sins of a David Ortiz because everyone was doing it is a slap in the face to the players that were honest (and one might argue, naive enough) to say no to the temptation of doing the wrong thing.
by Zaius on Jul 30, 2009 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm a parent and the "everyone else is doing it" excuse
never worked on me, nor did it work when I tried it on my parents.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
by opiejeanne on Jul 30, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am not rationalizing it, I am becoming insensitive to “breaking news flash, player X is doping” reports that continue to pepper my psyche. I am jaded from new reports. Big deal. Let’s move on and see about keeping it clean from this point forward. Keep the testing a step ahead of the drugs.
Although, I believe that scientists will figure out ways to keep ahead of the testing curves and players will continue to enhance. There’s too much money involved.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 31, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Ortiz v. Ramirez
We only know that David Ortiz used PEDs in 2003; Manny Ramirez was still using them in 2009.
Manny was just trying to get pregnant
They found evidence of the pregnancy drug in him … the sad part is that the traces of steroids were gone. We can infer that rigorous testing is missing a few guys and that science will soon be able to evade these tests altogether.
This just in:
Ortiz slapped with 50 minute suspension, to start in January. May miss a couple of practice swings in winter ball. ESPN rails against the hypocrisy of Selig and the injustice of MLB, worries that this may set back Big Papi’s chances at Comeback Player Of The Year in 2010.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
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