Halladay on the block?!?!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 1:17 PM PDT
102 comments
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4311661
According to ESPN sources, the Blue Jays are open to dealing ace Roy Halladay. J.P. Riccardi should be drug tested, IMO. Opens up to the possibility of acquiring arguably the best pitcher in baseball. What would it take? Could John Lackey be included in the deal? Although Halladay's deal expires after the 2010 season, he would have to waive his no-trade clause for any deal to be able to be pushed through.
There have been rumors that the Ninja is trying to acquire another ace.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4311661
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WiHaloFan mentioned this in the daily headlines
But I’d imagine it’d take quite a package to nab Halladay…
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 1:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My fears about Halladay
He has a year left on his contract. So if you give up a wealth of talent for him today, you he might not have him at the start of 2011. It will cost a pretty penny to keep Halladay once his contract is up and it’ll cost a lot of talent to make the move for him.
But if I were to guess, I’d say they’d want John Lackey (to offer ARB to at the end of the year), Sean O’Sullivan, Eric Aybar, and Jeff Mathis. And probably a prospect like Matt Brown or Brandon Wood.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by Jay Cal on Jul 7, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thats just to start right?
I think they would want
Jordan Walden
Trevor Bell
Trevor Reckling/Ryan Chaffee
Conger/Mathis
Wood/S-Rod
and if we where to trade for him i would want there to be like a 1-2 week window where we could talk out and extension (like Johan) but IDK how you do that in the regular season
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart #34
by Vladd#27 on Jul 7, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Halladay has taken two below market deals
I think that trend will continue, because I think he just wants to win.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 7, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that it?
or does he just like Toronto? Does he make a run for the border in 2011?
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
by Moondoggy on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They want a SS
They will Want Bradon Wood and SOS or Lackey… I still think hes worth it. Hes the best Finisher in the game.
Nick Adenhart.
by WillGoAngels27 on Jul 7, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably would take
Napoli / Wood / Walden / Reckling
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jul 7, 2009 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Unlike Haren...
The leverage of the Blue Jays isn’t that great, for the very reason that Halliday is locked up only through the end of next season. What Halliday is slated to make in 2010 is more than the option year salary for Haren in 2013.
I’d give up a lot for Haren, because his contract would keep him in the fold—relatively cheaply—for several seasons to come. I’d be less generous in dealing for Halliday.
As to who the Jays would want, they’re stocked in the OF (Wells and Rios both signed through 2014), but SS McDonald’s deal ends this season, and Rolen’s ends next year. Therefore, Wood would almost certainly be a demand from the Jays, for either spot on the right side of the infield. A pitcher or two to replace Halliday, and yeah, a catcher, too, since Barrett and Barajas both have expiring deals and I don’t know where Chavez fits into the team’s plans.
Just looking at that, the price is too high for me.
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2009 3:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Toronto has plenty of leverage. Have you seen the available pitching?
Think Teixeira to ATL.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 7, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big difference
Halliday plays every 5th day. Teixeira played 150+ games a season, and did so with excellent offense and defense. Halliday is a great pitcher but he can affect the outcome of only 30 or so games. Teixeira could affect the outcome of 5 times as many.
The price Atlanta paid was also under the delusion that a grad from Georgia Tech would have a soft spot for signing with the Braves. I am sure that Atlanta wouldn’t have given up so much had the team thought it was getting Teixeira for a season and three months.
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure, hauldog's comparison wasn't perfect, but I see what he's saying
Even you Kaplan would have to admit that a trade for a pitcher the caliber of Halladay made by the Angels is similar to the trade LAA made for Tex last year, in that the trade would be made with the post-season in mind.
Halladay’s impact would be really felt more than a position player in the postseason, because the fate of three postseason games (possibly) lies squarely in his hands. Given he’s a top two pitcher on the planet, I’d try to trade for him. Even if we’re parting with some young talent. It’s time.
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what is his postseason record?
Some pitchers become absolute beasts, some become absolute burdens. Halladay hasn’t had any postseason experience in the MLB. Maybe he’ll be like Teix was on his first time in the postseason last year and be awesome, or maybe he’ll be like Johan Santana and not be so awesome. He’s a wildcard. Who knows?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Jul 7, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Halladay is a true ace. When the playoffs come every fifth day goes out of the window in terms of value
You should look at what packages for players like Halladay fetch.
Teixeira was mentioned because I think the Blue Jays will get a package of a similar size.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 7, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not make a pitch for him, which I am sure will happen behind the Ninja's closed doors
He’s the best pitcher in the American League, and he’s neck and neck with Lincecum for the best pitcher in the world. You’d get one and half seasons with him and if he liked it in LAA, you’d perhaps be able to sign him.
It’s time for this organization to take a risk in trading some of its young talent.
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Thanks.
Halladay is awesome, but the price would be too high. If Angels want him they should wait for free agency. I wouldn’t sell the farm even for a pitcher of his caliber. IMHO.
by Monkeyspanked on Jul 7, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You really think
They’re going to wait until the end of next season to get him? Too much forethought.
But yeah the price is too high. I would say that some other team would pull the trigger before the Halos do.
by TheAntiSox on Jul 7, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good thing Warren Zevon isn't the Jay's GM, or else it would be Tenderness on the block
Angels fan since '67
by red floyd on Jul 7, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Zevon loved golf
In fact, I think he said, “enjoy every sand wedge”.
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm game
Its not that crazy when you consider that the Jays have a ton of money locked up in Vernon Wells and and Alex Rios in long term deals. Throw in the the assumption that the Jays won’t be able to compete over the next year and a half, and it starts making sense . It would be interesting to see it will take, but If Arte is willing to foot the the bill, why not see what it will take?
You are what you type.
by rjcicc on Jul 7, 2009 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i'd do it
but the price may be steep… we’re talking Wood/Conger/Bell/O’Sullivan or Reckling steep. and they may want more. Doc is an incredible pitcher, but i just don’t see it happening
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jul 7, 2009 4:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You pull the trigger.
You pull the trigger.
You pull the friggin’ trigger.
They can have any 4 prospects not named Bell.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
by Stirrups on Jul 7, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yup, you do... you throw in your bid
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
statistically speaking...
you’d like the Angels chances better because trading Halladay within the AL East seems unlikely and that eliminates the Yankees, Sox and Rays- who are three of the most probably teams to trade for Roy.
Most likely, the Yankees wouldn’t have the prospects anyway. The Sox have also shown reluctance to part with some of their minor leaguers as well.
It’s interesting. I don’t think J.P. Riccardi deals his ace to a division rival…
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Riccardi would most definitely trade him inside the division.
It is all about the package
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 7, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AP: Jays GM will listen to Halladay offers (10 mins ago)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 7, 2009 4:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A lot of smoke, but no fire
"I don’t think anything has changed, I just think, ‘You know what, why not listen? The worst we can say is no,"’ Ricciardi told The Canadian Press on Tuesday.
"If someone wants Roy and they’re willing to blow us away, we’d be willing to listen, that’s all I’m saying. That doesn’t mean we’d trade him, that doesn’t mean we’re looking to trade him. All it means is we’d be willing to listen."
All of which means, if some team is stupid enough to overpay for Halladay, Ricciardi might say yes.
Big deal.
The question is, do you really want to the Angels to be that team which overpays for Halladay? Bidders like that are known by the more familiar name of “suckers”.
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, because holding on to our "can't miss prospects" has really paid dividends in recent years...
…not! We can keep holding on to McPhersons and Kendricks, because we’d rather have them then a top two pitcher on the planet.
Give Riccardi credit for trying to raise the asking price as you say, but if you think Reagins isn’t going to make an inquiry, I think he’d be a fool. And I doubt Riccardi would trade Halladay in the division. Which makes us a mathematically better possibility.
I think we’ve got enough farm boys to make a trade, the question is: which package would it take? Or are the Jays going to want a couple ML-ready players. The answer is probably both. I think to flat out reject a deal based on the fact we won’t ever trade any of our best prospects is foolhardy. Sometimes you have to take a chance. I think a year and half of Halladay is a tempting possibility at the right price.
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and maybe that asking price is worth paying, even if it's pretty steep
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
by hk47 on Jul 7, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
after some thought, here are my two deals
deal with Wood –
Wood/Mathis/Reckling/Trumbo
deal without Wood -
S-Rod/Conger/O’Sullivan/Aybar/Trumbo
i’d rather not deal Wood, but either of those seem fair.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jul 7, 2009 4:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you send Mathis away, you need a catching prospect back
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
by Stirrups on Jul 7, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why exactly?
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 7, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hank Conger.
Thats just one we have plenty of others to back him up/
Nick Adenhart.
by WillGoAngels27 on Jul 7, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've got nothing to wow them
They wouldn’t want Trumbo. He’s stuck at AA until he begins to hit as he did when he was promoted to AA last year. Until then, there is very low value for him.
You’d need to swap out Napoli for Mathis in the first deal, and probably throw in O’Sullivan to go with Reckling, since the Jays will need an arm now.
As for the second deal, you’d again view Trumbo only as a throw-in for now, and that leaves your deal very weak. Aybar could have defensive value on the carpet in Rogers Centre, but Sean Rodriguez still has plenty to prove before he can be a tentpole to a deal like this.
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Trumbo
read rghan’s prospect update from today. Trumbo is starting to regain his stroke again.
and i read a few stories today that said the Jays wouldn’t necessarily need a pitching prospect, as they seem to have a solid young core of pitchers. throwing in a pitcher or 2 doesn’t really change the deal, it just sweetens it.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jul 7, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trumbo is a bum
No walks no average. Not really anything he does impresses me.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 7, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his power is his upside
i dont like him much either, but other teams might
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jul 7, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to make this deal!
For the ninja to not make this work is nearly criminal. If he could manage it without losing a starter(IE Lackey), then you have the freedom to look for bullpen support during the offseason, while you RESIGN LACKEY, and hope that Kelvim can show the bullpen what its supposed to look like once again. You make the sacrifices to get this done. For too many years we’ve heard about this prospect and that prosepct being big up and comers…. Kendrick ring any bells?….. its time to bring in some known quantities to round out the top 5.
by jjadams on Jul 7, 2009 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see this happen
but only if the price is right. We actually have an offense for the first time in forever, weakening that by trading Napoli/Kendry/Rivera would be a deal breaker, IMO.
#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Jul 7, 2009 6:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Forget Halladay for a moment. . .
If they are willing to trade their ace, they might be willing to trade one of the two guys named Frasior and Downs. That is a real need, wouldn’t cost as much, and is probably more realistic.
By the AS Break, when they are really out of contention, a trade may happen. These two would be worth the price.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Jul 7, 2009 6:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
GMJ and Q - straight up.
and that P.O.S. Napoli!
and throw in that mick pitcher with his wee beaty little eyes…
by The Clyde on Jul 7, 2009 6:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
did you miss the sarcasm?
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jul 7, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most definitely
I didn’t read it all but now I did. Funny.
by TheAntiSox on Jul 7, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Mick pitcher"?
A bit over the top…but “wee beaty little eyes” made it hilarious
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Jul 7, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's OK. I'm a Kraut-Mick
I converted for the jokes…
by The Clyde on Jul 7, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would a team have to offer less
if they took Vernon Wells and his horrible contract off the Jays’ hands too. I’m not suggesting the Angels take on more bad salary, they don’t need another GMJ, but I’m wondering if Toronto would take less just to get rid of Wells.
by WiHaloFan on Jul 7, 2009 7:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would say yes they would. That would help them out immensely
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 7, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do it.
DO IT.
"Yeah, well…if fuckin’ Gandhi threw up a 5.70ERA, it doesn’t make him a great pitcher. " CKOD
by HaloDutch on Jul 7, 2009 7:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Halladay
Is arguably the one of the best, if not, THE best SP currently pitching. Yes he will have a big price but think of what we’ll be getting. We’ll have the best rotation in the majors, that is if we don’t give them Lackey.
A rotation with Doc:
Halladay
Lackey
Saunders
Weaver
Santana
Holy crap.
That rotation is disgusting. I say “The Big Three” should really get a deal done, even if it means giving up great young talent.
The Jays would probably turn there heads on a package like this:
Aybar, Mathis, O’Sullivan, Willits, Thompson, and Brown
That’s a lot, sure, but nothing the Halos don’t already have. What the Angels don’t have is Doc Halladay and they can nab him with the right trade pieces.
I say do it and do it with confidence.
by TheAntiSox on Jul 7, 2009 7:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Jays wouldn't bother
The Jays would probably turn there heads on a package like this:
Aybar, Mathis, O’Sullivan, Willits, Thompson, and Brown
On the one hand, you tout Halladay as the best in the game.
On the other, you propose a deal loaded to the rafters with marginal and underperforming players.
Matt Brown? Not even hitting his weight and striking out one in every four AB.
Willits? A journeyman in the making.
Thompson? Hasn’t yet made the transition from AAA to MLB.
Mathis? For offense, see Brown above. For defense, he’s a good but not great receiver.
Making a trade for a key player doesn’t involve proposing handing over every player who disappoints you. It involves giving up guys like Napoli, Wood, Reckling, Bell. Willits is a guy you trade for a middle-relief pitcher who’s a free agent at season’s end. He has no value in a trade for an elite player.
You’ve got to be realistic about this if you wish to promote the idea of trading for Halladay. As I said before (in the conversation about Haren) a trade for an elite player is going to hurt in terms of the talent given in exchange. The deal you propose doesn’t hurt—it is cleaning out the garage.
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
I see your point. But you’re making them sound like bad players when a lot of them are very valuable to most teams. The Angels are a winning team and won’t settle for a guy who hasn’t proven himself yet.
Most teams would love to get players like that. All of them young and, although not proven, are potential great players. None of these have even had enough time playing in the majors to show exactly what they can do.
But yes I see your point, this probably isn’t enough for Halladay. Okay.
by TheAntiSox on Jul 8, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Nobody on your list has the potential to be as good as Halladay – the best or second-best at what he does. In fact, nobody on your list qualifies as a probable future all-star. Of the six, only Aybar can really be expected to be an everyday player, and O’Sullivan’s ceiling is likely back of the rotation, not annual Cy Young contender.
by jjackflash on Jul 8, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No shit
That nobody on my list has the potential to be a future Halladay, nobody in the Angels organization is a possible Halladay. Isn’t that the point? That he’s that good?
If there was someone that DID have the potential to be Halladay then why would we want Halladay? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
They aren’t asking for Halladay back, they’re asking for kids who can help them win a world championship.
Now, if you were to say that the guys on my list wouldn’t live up to that then fine but to say we have to give a Halladay and more that we don’t have for Halladay is really dumb.
by TheAntiSox on Jul 8, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potential Stars
There may not be a Halliday in the entire Angels’ organization; that’s not the point. The point is that to get the best or second-best pitcher in the game, they’re going to have to give up the organization’s best prospects, not organizational filler. There are much better prospects in the organization than the ones you listed. If you want to trade for the best pitcher around, get ready to pony up your best prospects, however good they are.
by jjackflash on Jul 8, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not "valueless"
But you’re making them sound like bad players when a lot of them are very valuable to most teams.
There is a difference between compensating a team for a middle-reliever and compensating that team for its elite ace.
If you’re discussing a trade for Aaron Harang, for example—and I don’t think that is a bad idea in the slightest—then some of the players above might get the job done. Just not for Roy Halladay.
by George Kaplan on Jul 8, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I get it, you feel like they aren’t enough for Halladay.
by TheAntiSox on Jul 8, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually i find the reasoning to trade for him might
be just as great to keep him away from Texas as it is to bolster the current rotation.
You put Halladay in Texas, then that rotation is actually structured like it is supposed to be…. It is as important to keep him out of Texas as it is to get him in the Angels rotation….
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jul 7, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Key point
Halladay has a full no-trade clause.
I don’ t think a guy from Denver, CO who has played 50% of his professional career in the domed and air-conditioned Rogers Centre will agree to play in the sauna known as Arlington Stadium.
If he doesn’t want to go, he doesn’t have to go. This is more than simply impressing Ricciardi with a deal, this is also being a franchise Halladay wants to play for.
by George Kaplan on Jul 8, 2009 3:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Halliday likes it in Texas
and has expressed interest there before.
He is not going to be a guy that is going to limit his options because of the home park. He seems to be more worried about winning than keeping nice numbers. For all the problems about Texas, they definatly have a very bright future, and that is what will be key for him.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jul 8, 2009 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unaware of any love for Arlington
…in public statements. However, over his career his worst numbers against a team were posted in Arlington—his ERA is over 6, and he has given up more HR/AB than in any other park, and his W-L against the Rangers (‘99-’09) is 4-3 with 3 ND.
In any case, your concerns with Texas are most likely moot. Tom Hicks had to take a loan from MLB last week just to make his payroll. Highly unlikely he’ll be looking to assume an additonal $16M commitment while he’s struggling financially.
by George Kaplan on Jul 8, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure does not sound like Halladay likes it in Texas
The pitcher loves Toronto and being a Blue Jay but is "such an intense competitor’’ he would probably welcome a move to a team with a better shot at winning, according to an acquaintance of Halladay’s. That person also said Halladay wouldn’t necessarily approve every potential trade brought to him, naming Texas — with its great hitters’ park that holds bad memories for Halladay — as one contending spot Halladay might not OK.
Plus Texas does not have the ability to take on any salary whatsoever.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 8, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense
Halladay has been lit up like a Christmas tree in that park. Even considering he wouldn’t be facing the Rangers at the plate, that remains a hitter’s park and the final scores often resemble football halftime scores. I can’t imagine why he’d waive his no-trade to go spend 50% of his starts there.
And Tom Hicks isn’t going to reach for that check anyway…
by George Kaplan on Jul 8, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Many pitchers who pitch well in Texas
by TheAntiSox on Jul 8, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's what DiGiovanna has to say...
“A deal for Halladay would probably cost the Angels pitcher Jered Weaver, a top pitching prospect such as Trevor Reckling or Jordan Walden, top hitting prospect Brandon Wood and a young big leaguer such as Erick Aybar or Howie Kendrick.” LINK
Personally, i think that’s a bit high, and i really don’t want to trade Wood. maybe SRod/Aybar/Conger/Reckling/O’Sullivan? they’re still getting 4 really good prospects… and Aybar
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jul 7, 2009 9:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't work that way
The line from the Jays was that they’d listen if they were “blown away” by the offer.
Personally, i think that’s a bit high, and i really don’t want to trade Wood. maybe SRod/Aybar/Conger/Reckling/O’Sullivan? they’re still getting 4 really good prospects… and Aybar
That doesn’t blow anyone away if the return is supposed to be one of the top two pitchers in the game.
Wood is an automatic inclusion in such a deal. If this bothers you, then you don’t want to push for the trade.
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SAUNDERS - WOOD - WALDEN
at the bare minimum … this is what it is going to take to land Doc Halladay.
Bare.
Minimum.
by Rev Halofan on Jul 7, 2009 11:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That would make me cry
Phys: Well, Coon doesn't have a lot of power but he's a good bunter
Coon: F$%# That!
Thanks Zu
by halofan4life on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, yes it would
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Jul 11, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See ya Joe, Brandon, and Jordan
Wish you well. Welcome aboard Doc.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jul 8, 2009 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still sayin' that after today?
I can see Joe and Jordan going, but maybe that’s because I’m not happy with Joe’s performance of late (would the BJ’s be, either?), and don’t know much about Jordan Walden. Wood, on the other hand—no. I say it now, that would be one of the biggest mistakes ever. Like, EPIC fail.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Jul 11, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, throw in Sean Rodriguez instead of Wood
And I’d do it. I just get the feeling Sean-Rod’s not going to be doing much for this team in the future.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Jul 11, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect
that key to any deal the Angels would make would be not losing anyone from the current starting rotation, in terms of making it worthwhile. They don’t need Halladay to replace Saunders or Weaver; they need him to replace Matt Palmer/injured Santana/etc. Maybe replace Saunders in that scenario with one of the Trevors from the minors plus Kevin Jepsen.
by jjackflash on Jul 8, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After all the fans have been through with Wood
I want him to stay. Not going to lie.
I’d rather give up any two players than give up Wood.
by TheAntiSox on Jul 8, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm cool with that
lets get ol’ JP to Del Taco and get this shit done.
"Yeah, well…if fuckin’ Gandhi threw up a 5.70ERA, it doesn’t make him a great pitcher. " CKOD
by HaloDutch on Jul 9, 2009 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've got it.
Ya’ll going to love me for this one.
Tony Reagins meets with Management from Colorado Rockies and Toronto Blue Jays.
Rockies Get
Sean Rodriguez
Vernon Wells
Blue Jays Get
Garret Atkins
Jeff Mathis
Joe Saunders
Angels Get
Roy Halladay
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by Jay Cal on Jul 8, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops
I forgot to add… Rockies move Atkins and takes on Vernon’s contract. They can play Ian Stewart at 3B. And use S-Rod as a utility player.
Blue Jays replace either Rollen or Overbay with Atkins, who is starting to heat up a little. They get Saunders who is under team control for a while and have an answer with Mathis to replace Barajas as the end of the year.
Angels get Halladay.
I also think if you move Napoli instead of Mathis, you swap Saunders for O’Sullivan.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by Jay Cal on Jul 8, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rockies are not going to take on that kind of money
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 8, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then forget Wells
And send a pro-rated GMJ to Colorado. We’ll pick up half of his contract.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by Jay Cal on Jul 8, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make
remember we wanted Konerko soooo bad…and Soriano…and Ramirez and and and.
I would be afraid of Halladay’s age and his recent trips to the DL. Let’s stick with home grown.
(unless of course they would take Aybar, Mathis, GMJ and anyone else who drives me crazy)
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
by Moondoggy on Jul 8, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well now that it is becoming increasingly obvious that my favorite pitcher Ervin Santana is not going to in all likelihood regain his allstar form. . .
Weaver is our best (a good 1 or 2, but can he maintain?)
Lackey is O.K. (read average)
Saunders is inconsistent ( read average)
Santana is pitching poorly ( 1 good start out of 5? )
Our 5th starter is a 21 year old rookie.
Our bullpen is pitching better, but is it World Series winning better?
Seriously, we actually do need to trade for a #1 or #2 and a solid reliever. Toronto has both. We have young cost effective players under control. That is what they will want. They don’t want contracts and soon to be free agents.
Look at what the Mets gave up for Santana. Do you think any Met fan is still whining about trading away prospects?
If we get Halladay, and he performs how we know he can ( a true #1) , (BETTER THAN LACKEY EVER WILL BE) , than he is worth a good price. We want the Rings this year and the next three right? Let’s go and get it!
We tried the ‘Big Bat’ last year and we got 7 singles. Well let’s try the Big Arm this year and maybe that’s all the Red Sux will get in game 1!!
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Jul 8, 2009 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
¿Que?
If we get Halladay, and he performs how we know he can ( a true #1) , (BETTER THAN LACKEY EVER WILL BE) , than he is worth a good price. We want the Rings this year and the next three right? Let’s go and get it!
Halladay is signed only through the end of next season. How does trading for him provide a lock on championships for the next three years?
As to Santana, no Mets fan is grumbling now (about that trade), but you’ll notice the price the Mets have paid to have a reliable starter every 5th game, while the team begins the circle the drain for the third consecutive season with Santana in Queens. Bringing in Santana has brought the team zero championships.
And how much love do you think the Mets fans will be showing when Santana is in the final guaranteed season of his deal at age 34 in 2013, making $25.5M? Unless he’s a freak of nature like Maddux or Ryan, one could safely expect diminished skills from Santana by then, as he single-handedly earns 1/5 of the payroll of the entire team.
Meanwhile, Halladay is 32 now. He’ll be 33 when he’s shopping for a new free agent deal. Again, unless he’s that rare pitcher who remains effective through his middle-30s, do you really see the Angels signing him to a very lucrative (Johan Santana-like) deal for another 3-4 seasons?
More than likely, any trade for Halladay would be one to obtain his services through 2010, and no further.
by George Kaplan on Jul 9, 2009 4:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All right, so he helps us win TWO Rings, Back to Back ain't too shabby.
The point about Santana has nothing to do with his contract. That was the Met’s perogative. It has everything to do with the fact the guys they gave away are league average at best, and Minnesota has already released one of them. That for an ACE!.
As far as the Met’s not winning anything, no one will argue that Santana has’nt done his share. With a better bullpen last year he could have been the CY Young winner. As it was I think he came in SECOND.
Halladay is locked up at a ‘reasonable’ 15 mil next year. Who would you rather have in game 1?
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Jul 9, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me, who was the ace of our staff when we won the ring in 02?
Washburn? Appier? Sele? Ortiz? My point is, you can win a ring without an ace, and you can lose a ring with an ace. We’ve just got to have the right chemistry at the right time. I think getting Halladay would be smart if we don’t have to give up someone else from the rotation, but we might be able to win without him. The team’s shown spurts of brilliance in the last month or so. If we can’t land Halladay, maybe we’ll get lucky anyway, and everything will gel in September.
Keep those hammies limber, boys.
by Rally Manatee on Jul 9, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Santana
The point about Santana has nothing to do with his contract. That was the Met’s perogative.
Then you weren’t paying attention at the time of the trade. The Mets had a window to negotiate an extension with Santana, or else they wouldn’t make the deal. If Santana didn’t agree to the extension, then the Mets wouldn’t have competed the trade. So the trade had everything to do with his deal.
In that same way, Halladay could hold any potential acquiring team up to the same standard: Sign me to an extension, or I am gone by the end of 2010. And just as the Mets fans probably won’t be thrilled with Santana in 2013, Halladay watchers may well be less than entranced with Roy that same year.
As always, be careful what you wish for. Having a raging hard-on for a World Series appearance now can cause a team to lose its future really fast.
Or have you seen the Braves lately?
by George Kaplan on Jul 12, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still think the Blue Jays don't have any leverage?
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jul 9, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angels are the faves... Latest odds out of Toronto:
The first instalment of the summer book odds on the running of the first Roy Halladay Sweepstakes leading up to the July 31 trade deadline:
LOS ANGELES ANGELS 2-1
Jered Weaver, plus shortstop Brandon Wood, and a pitching prospect such as lefty Trevor Reckling or Jordan Walden. Will Halladay go to the coast? Angels also want either Scott Downs or Brandon League and could expand the deal.
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/09/10071966-sun.html
My opinion, too much to give up. I know you have to give to receive but Weaver, Wood, and Reckling or Walden? I say give them Reckling AND Walden, Kendrick, Aybar, and Mathis. As far as the Angels additionally asking for League or Downs… I prefer Brandon League. He’ll cost more. And in that case, I’d give Reckling, Walden, Kendrick, Aybar, Napoli, and their pick between Kevin Jepson or Rich Thompson. Basically, I substituted Napoli for Mathis and added one of our current relievers. Here’s to hoping Conger is ready mid 2010.
by matt92130 on Jul 9, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the article
I don’t know who the writer is (aside from the obvious of his byline), but I get the impression he is pretty much talking out of his ass, in that he has no indication the Angels would offer Weaver, just that HE thinks this would be what would get it done.
It makes no logical sense to me to trade Weaver (who will enter first year of arbitration this Winter) and who is arguably the ace of the staff in order to obtain 1.3 seasons of Halladay. If the problem of the team is a shortage of starting pitching (and I’m not sure that is the most pressing need), then why trade the best on the staff for an upgrade for another ace? When the math is done, this doesn’t really upgrade the starting rotation as much as it might appear, since Weaver-Lackey-Santana-Saunders-Mr X isn’t that much worse than Halladay-Lackey-Santana-Saunders-Mr X.
If the team wants to upgrade, it could spend less in spare parts to gain a pitcher like Aaron Harang, who wouldn’t be the ace Halladay is, but who wouldn’t cost Weaver plus more, and who would solidify the middle of the rotation.
by George Kaplan on Jul 9, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weaver
It makes no sense for the Angels to trade anyone currently in the starting rotation in a Halladay deal. Yes, Halliday is better than anyone they have, but they don’t need Halladay to replace Weaver or Saunders; they need him (to the extent they need him at all) to shore up the 4th and 5th slots in the rotation – in other words, to add depth. Trading away a current starter to get Halladay effects no change in rotation depth.
I think two starting pitching prospects (Walden or O’Sullivan, plus a choice of Trevors), maybe Jepsen, plus Mathis and Aybar is the kind of package the Angels should be offering. I doubt anyone else makes a substantially better offer. That still might not get it done, though.
by jjackflash on Jul 9, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It makes no sense for the Angels to trade anyone currently in the starting rotation in a Halladay deal
should read:
It makes no sense for the Angels to trade the only currently effective starting pitcher in a Halladay deal
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 9, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
by Moondoggy on Jul 9, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Update on Conger:
Hank has 3 homeruns and 11 RBI’s in the past 10 games. He’s done well this season. Overall, he’s batting .288, 7 HR’s, and 38 RBIs. The only player hitting better at Arkansas is Mark Trumbo who is hitting .272 BA, 8 HR’s, and 44 RBI’s.
To my last point of the above post, Napoli becoming possibly expenadable due to Congers maturation. Trumbo could also be used as a chip as he’s quietly overcome a slow start.
Maybe a trade starting with Howie Kendrick, Mike Napoli, Erick Aybar, Trevor Reckling, Jordan Walden, and Mark Trumbo for Roy Halladay and Brandon League. I’m good with S-Rod taking over 2nd base, Wood taking over SS,a nd Mathis taking over catcher till Conger is ready mid next year. Reckling, Walden, and Trumbo are all solid prospects.
1. Chone Figgins (3rd base – Resign him).
2. Bobby Abreu (DH/LF/RF – Resign him)
3. Torii Hunter (CF)
4. Juan Rivera (RF/DH)
5. Matt Holliday (LF/DH – If Bay cannot be had, Holliday being 2nd, Vlad 3rd option)
6. Kendry Morales (1st base)
7. Brandon Wood (Short Stop)
8. Sean Rodriguez (2nd base)
9. Jeff Mathis (Catcher, until Hank Conger is ready)
SP1: Roy Halladay (Try to lock him up when traded for)
SP2: John Lackey (Resign him)
SP3: Ervin Santana
SP4: Jered Weaver
SP5: Joe Saunders
BP1: Brandon League
BP2: Darren Oliver (Resign him)
BP3: Scot Shields
BP4: Justin Speier
Set-up: Jose Arredondo
Closer: Brian Fuentes
Bench: Bobby Wilson (Catcher, until Hank Conger is ready, hopefully mid 2010)
Bench: Maicer Izturis (2nd base, SS, 3rd base)
Bench: Matt Brown (1st base, 3rd base, SS, corner outfielder)
Bench: Gary Matthews Jr. (All position outfielder)
Bench: Reggie Willits (Your pinch-runner)
by matt92130 on Jul 11, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mathis = Black hole in line-up, though, no?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Jul 11, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welllllllll...
I disagree with you slightly, and here is why. While Mathis may not possess the same power as Napoli, or the contact that Abreu makes, he is still a great team player who will sacrafice his at-bat for the good of the team. In other words, he’s a productive out. He can hit the ball to the right side when someone is on 2nd. He will hit the fly ball so the guy on 3rd can score. He can bunt. Hit and runs? No problem, at the very least he’ll make contact. Lastly, he’s pretty damn quick for a catcher.
Like I said earlier… he’d keep the catching position warm for Hank Conger (Hopefully mid 2010).
by matt92130 on Jul 12, 2009 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Napoli?
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! That (along with Wood) would be another dealbreaker were I GM. Nonsensical mancrush or not, I can’t see that making sense…;-D
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Jul 11, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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