Angels Hall of Fame: Small Hall or Free-For-All?
The Angels have re-upped their "Hall of Fame" with two new members, Brian Downing and Chuck Finley, absolutely deserving of the honor. Well, no sooner was Fin's speech done than the crass politicking begins. For some reason, out of a list of possible names, blogger Steve Bisheff plays his grumpy old fart card and beat the drum for the inclusion of Bill Rigney into this prestigious institution. This was the Angels' first manager. BISHEFF BLOG LINK. This is a terrible idea.
The current Hall stands as: Don Baylor, Rod Carew, Brian Downing, Chuck Finley, Jim Fregosi, Bobby Grich, Jimmie Reese and Nolan Ryan.
Ideas like including Bill Rigney in the AHOF make it only a matter of time before someone wants the worst long-term player in Angels history (and that would be Gary "Loser" DiSarcina), or the biggest cancer in Angels clubhouse history (Jimmy "Showboat" Edmonds), in the Angels Hall of Fame, so let's not rattle off the list of who should be in. Let's figure out who is the best Angel who should NOT be in.
The player with the most Plate Appearances as an Angel who sucked and is not AHOF-worthy is DiSarcina. He was the worst player over a long career that the Angel ever had. His OPS+ was 66 ... a league average layer is 100. A superstar is in the 140s. Get it? Save you "We lost in 95 because he got injured," we lost in 1995 because the pitching disappeared and a singles-hitting shortstop would not have been the difference.One example ... out of MANY examples is that Gary had 340 more plate appearances than Adam Kennedy and scored only 2 more runs than Adam did as an Angel. And that is just scratching the surface at the lack of production that DiSarloser was overachieving at. If you are sold on Gary Glitter it is thru the endless drumbeat of announcers talking about chemistry that was broadcast in the lonely 1990s. Management (aka Bill Bavasi) signed a turkey to a long-term deal and you my friend were sold a drumstick without any meat on it.
Of the current AHOF members, Rod Carew and Don Baylor have the fewest Plate Appearances as an Angel of any of the position players with just under 3600. Vlad might surpass them if he averages 3+ PA average over the remaining 36 games this season. The Angels ahead of Carew and Baylor in PA: Kennedy, Joyner, Schofield, Figgins, Davis, Gary McLosah, Erstad and Anderson. Davis was here twice and or all his success here, he was the king of the 6-4-3. Without him and Gary and Schofield, this is your definite AHOF within the next few years.
Ditch Schofield and Gary, and you can safely put Kennedy as your bubble (if Adam is out, it is a small hall based on career standards, if Adam is in it can still be a small hall with a nod toward playoff excellence). If you go a little below Baylor and Carew you find Bob Boone, Buck Rodgers Sandy Alomar and Doug DeCinces all with more than 3000 Angel Plate Appearances. With Jim Edmonds hovering at 2,951 Angels PA, guess what my cutoff demand is? Yep, I say 3,000 Plate Apearances as an Angel minimum.
Of those below AK's Plate Appearances but above the "Showboat Line" if Boone is in, so is Buck and perhaps they should be inducted together next year because neither is getting any younger. This makes DeCinces a certainty and creates the tension of whether '02 Series MVP Glaus should be brought back into the fold. The only person below Edmonds' # of PA that would remotely qualify might be Bobby Knoop, but this is where the old-timers bring in Rigney and then idiots pipe in for Fred Haney and you have an Angels Hall of Fame that is an old boys club instead of a place that guarantees Angel Greats.
With Pitching, there are eleven obvious arms that will go into the AHOF to join Nolan Ryan and Chuck Finley: Witt, Tanana, Lackey, Langston, Wright, Chance and McCaskill as starters and Percival and Frankie out of the pen. If you include Bryan Harvey the touchy subject of Donnie Moore's wife and daughter facing the crowd that booed their dad to death bubbles up and is too touchy. Rudy May pitched more innings than Jim Abbott, but you can bet Jim will be here one day and that means Jarrod Washburn will, eventually, as well.
If one uses "GAMES" rather than "INNINGS PITCHED" to ensure that great relievers show up ... well lo and behold the only name that pops up as a surprise near the top of the list is Scot Shields!
MY POSITION PLAYER BALLOT (3000 min PA)
YES: Anderson, Salmon, Erstad, Joyner, Guerrero
MAYBE: Kennedy, Figgins, DeCinces
NO: DiSarcina, Davis, Schofield, Glaus, Boone, Rodgers, Alomar
MY PITCHING BALLOT (1,000 IP for Starters, 400 Games for Relievers)
YES: Witt, Tanana, Lackey, Langston, Wright, Chance, Washburn, Percival, Rodriguez
MAYBE: Abbott, Shields
NO: McCaskill, May
0 recs |
34 comments
Comments
Steve Finley!
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
by vlad IS my man on Aug 28, 2009 1:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Over Shea Hillebrand's dead body...
(not a bad idea)
by Rev Halofan on Aug 28, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you took out Shea
who would watch over the mini ponies?
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Aug 28, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks Good...
Granted, I’ve been following the Angels since 98 so I don’t have the breadth of other fans here do but I recognize most names on your ballot. What are the odds Scioscia gets into the AHOF?
Beat the Angels if you can... Survive if they let you.
by blast21dave on Aug 28, 2009 2:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So this is now the "Hall of Longevity"?
Or the Hall of Minimum Number of Appearances? I chafe at the notion of having strictly defined criteria; rather, I think we should look at players on a case-by-case basis. That way, a great player with a short Angels career [big impact / short period of time] would get in, and a player with even similar stats but had no impact on the club’s success, or was a cheater, clubhouse poison, or former/current Red Sox player would burn in a flaming cauldron of oil.
Got a little off track there at the end, but you get the point.
Torii Hunter: Best Halo Ever.
by LazorkoRules on Aug 28, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Joyner
Wally is 10th all-time in Angels Batting average and 10th all time in doubles and 9th in RBI
He is NOT in the Top 10 in any of the following categories all-time
OBP, SLG, OPS, Games Played, At Bats, Plate Appearances, Runs Scored, Hits, Total Bases..
He was a starting 1st baseman for 6 years who had one fantastic year and some solid years…a damn fine player for sure but there is no way he is anywhere near an Angels HOF
He isnt top 10 in most of the longevity and skill stats…once again a damn fine player for 6 years but nowhere close to Angels HOF
by Kgdadude on Aug 28, 2009 2:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mistake
He is 9th all-time in total bases…my apologies
by Kgdadude on Aug 28, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*sigh* Another Joyner basher?
Wally WAS the Angels in the late 80’s. He may not be a great all time player, but he most definitely is a great all time Angel.
I wonder if these Wally haters would feel the same way had he not developed a staph infection that kept him out of the end of the Boston series in 86. I still say we would have made the World Series had he been able to play.
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 28, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a Joyner basher
Personally I loved Wally, always thought he was a great ballplayer and had the pleasure of meeting him in person a couple of times. Loved watching him play, at first I wouldve thought lock…
I just can’t put a guy consistently in the 9-15 range of Angels hitters in the team HOF…like I said before a damn fine player who is highly thought of and deservedly so…just not an Angels HOF simply because hes not anywhere near the top in anything
by Kgdadude on Aug 28, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved Wally too
I even had the Wally World poster on my wall as a kid. Some of my best Angel memories were chanting “Wal-ly! Wal-ly” at games in the late ’80’s. But I think Wally is that place where you have to set the cut-off point. He was good, but not for nearly long enough. He didn’t do anything spectacular while he was here (like win an MVP).
Wally is probably my second favorite Angel of all time, but he just doesn’t quite make the cut for AHOF.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
by Gorbachav5 on Aug 28, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we're thinking of AK...
Shouldn’t we think of Scott Spiezio?
by kle18 on Aug 28, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He gets in based solely on his 2002 postseason RBI line...
guy is legendary.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Aug 28, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
One great postseason isn’t enough, IMO
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 28, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are talking ANGELS HOF, not the big time HOF.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Aug 28, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at All-Time Leaderboards
It would probably be something like this…(Includes guys who may already be in or still playing)
Pitchers – Ryan, Tanana, Witt, Finley, Percival, Lackey and maybe K-Rod and Langston
Hitters – Salmon, Carew, Downing, Anderson, Fregosi, Erstad, and Grich
Those are the guys consistently in the top 5 or 6 in various all-time categories… I can deal with Baylor simply because he made such a powerful impact even for a short time
by Kgdadude on Aug 28, 2009 3:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way:
Baylor gave us 1982
Wally gave us 1986
Baylor was MVP, okay, but wally was a write in stater on the All Star team, frankly a more unique accomplishment.
by Rev Halofan on Aug 28, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And was a more deserving ROTY than Canseco
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 28, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lackey? No
Not yet. What if he plays out the rest of his career like he’s played this year, then would you still consider him?
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 28, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would put in:
Hitters: Anderson, Salmon, Guerrero
Erstad and Joyner just miss the cut.
Pitchers: Percival, Tanana, Witt, maybe Shields (if he finishes his career with the Angels and has 2 or 3 more good seasons) and maybe Lackey
K-Rod is close, but he’s going to wind up pitching more of his career with teams other than the Angels. And his parting with the team wasn’t all that friendly. If he winds up making the ACTUAL HOF, then I think you put him in.
Langston was good, but not great while with the Angels.
I think I’m more for a small hall than large hall.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
by Gorbachav5 on Aug 28, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tanana
- alltime on the Halos Heaven list, he’s the best guy I would prefer not to put in.
Salmon is a definite. I’d put in Percival, Anderson, Joyner, and Erstad. I don’t want to discuss active players, though Erstad is toasty enough to consider him among the retired.
The HK-47 hitting droid is the finest line drive machine ever built
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 28, 2009 4:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No Salmon?
Or is that a given?
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
by Gorbachav5 on Aug 28, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you not put Tanana in?!?!?!
…and Salmon is #1 on the Halos Heaven list, not Tanana
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 28, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Figgins
makes my cut; definitely if he’s here beyond 2009. He’ll be among the franchise’s all-time leaders in hits and SBs, and I suspect runs scored. He was on the 2002 team, and has been a fixture of every Angels playoff team since then. Now, he’s even “All Star Chone Figgins.” And just might add a Gold Glove.
by jjackflash on Aug 28, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Anderson for Hall of Lazy
We are the Los Angeles Angels of the late 2000s
by Higz on Aug 28, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
They are planning on doing this annually....
If they are going to induct a guy every single year they are going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel very quickly….
Ok so GA gets in but then what about Chili Davis? Bob Boone? Bryan Harvey?
How low do we go?
by Nashdiesel on Aug 28, 2009 5:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
come on...
GA is leaps and bounds better than Chili, Boone, and Harvey. Are you crazy???
Or am I misunderstanding you? My point is there is no way those other 3 get in
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 28, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
If they are celebrating every year I’m under the impression they are inducting at least 1 person every single year. That means sooner or later you are inducting lesser players. The Angels only have so many superstars in their history.
Either way we shouldn’t knock Chili Davis. His career OPS is higher than Anderson (.811 to .794) and from 1994 to 1996 with the Angels his OPS was north of .900. Garrett leads in most cumulative batting stats because he played so many years with the Angels. Chili isn’t too far behind in about half the plate appearances.
Davis’ career stats with the Angels: 6th all time OPS, 9th hits, 10th runs, 6th homers, 5th RBI, 5th Walks.
by Nashdiesel on Aug 29, 2009 3:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay, good points
I loved Chili. I had no idea his numbers where that good.
Maybe he’s the cutoff point?
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 29, 2009 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's be a liitle bit more selective...
If you look at Joyner’s numbers they are unspectacular. 7 seasons. 1 all star appearance. Hit over .300 once. Scored over 100 runs once. Batting average .286. As far as hitters go, the only ones who should get in are GA, Kingfish, and Vladdy. As far as pitchers go let’s look at the stats:
Tanana 8 seasons 102-78 record 3.08 ERA – In
Witt 10 seasons 109-107 record 3.76 ERA – Out
Langston 8 seasons 88-74 record 3.97 ERA – Out
Wright 8 seasons 87-85 record 3.28 ERA – Out
What’s really impressive is that Tanana had such great numbers on truly horrible teams.
Let’s also not forget a couple of other guys who should be in – Mike Scioscia and Bill Stoneman.
by njhalofan on Aug 28, 2009 7:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This sites hostility to DSar
saddens me.
Tell your statistics to shut up
by HaloDutch on Aug 29, 2009 2:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, me too
he isn’t the worst Angel ever. Not by a long shot
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Aug 29, 2009 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name one worse
He was sub-mediocre but so were many many Anegls. What sts him apart was that he was so terrible, so underperforming for many many seasons.
He got great ink and plaudits form the broadcasters, due to the club pushing him (as they had signed him early to a too-big contract) and his genuinely affable nature to the press and and fans, so there was much hype around him as a “chemistry guy” but it sure as heck did not show up on the field.
by Rev Halofan on Aug 30, 2009 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
shpuldnt we look no farther
Than this list?
- Vladimir Guerrero
#3Brian Downing - Nolan Ryan
- Jim Fregosi
- Bobby Grich
- Garret Anderson
- Chuck Finley
- Wally Joyner
- Darin Erstad
Nick Adenhart- Forever a true Angel in Heaven. RIP 1986-2009
by AnaheimHalos61 on Aug 29, 2009 12:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
*numbers are wrong
Nick Adenhart- Forever a true Angel in Heaven. RIP 1986-2009
by AnaheimHalos61 on Aug 29, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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