PTBNL In Kazmir Trade Is Brandon Wood?
Rays Index speculates that the return on the Kazmir trade is Brandon Wood. Discuss.
2 months ago
scareduck
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The problem with getting Wood or S-Rod is that the rays are one of the only teams
in baseball with as much blockage at 2B, SS and 3B as the Halos. Bartlett, Longoria and Zobrist are all big parts of the Rays lineup that seem unlikely to go anywhere in the near future. One possible way around this is to let Crawford go, move Bartlett to second and put Bartlett in the outfield, but is seems unlikely. Also, I find it hard to believe the Halos are giving up so much as PTBNL, if Wood was in the deal you’d think he’d be one of the top pieces.
#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Aug 29, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
*Put Zobrist in the outfield.
#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Aug 29, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays also have Reid Brignac and Tim Beckham in the pipeline
Both have some warts, but so does Wood, so why complicate that picture when there are so many talented guys looking a bit like Wood already in place?
by rghan on Aug 30, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would they name Wood LATER?
This article reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what “PTBNL” means.
The only way the PTBNL could be Wood is if the Rays and Angels agreed that there is a list of players for the Rays to be looking at with the Rays having the option of deciding in a few days, weeks, or months.
If you believe Joe Maddon as having acknowledged that the he knows who the PTBNL is, then the identity of this player is confined to minor leaguers on the DL and I cannot imagine that it is Anthony Ortega.
by Rev Halofan on Aug 29, 2009 3:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe because any player on the 40 man roster
would have to clear waivers, first.
So if it’s Wood, they would have to wait until the end of the season before they could make him the PTBNL, as he would never clear waivers.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 29, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
things that make you go
h m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m … … … … … … …
by Rev Halofan on Aug 29, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walden is on the DL
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Aug 29, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, so much for that
unless S-Rod was on the DL. Which he wasn’t, because he played in last night’s Bees game.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on Sep 1, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i bet its willits
lets all assume tony isnt completely braindead
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Aug 29, 2009 4:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They WISH its Wood
But I guarantee its not.
As said above, they have pretty much no room for him. While there is a real likelihood the Halos are going to have the 3B spot open for him next year with Figgins potentially walking.
Besides, why the HELL would they give up those two AND Wood for a guy like Kazmir. Nope he’s staying.
I think its Walden like Rev pointed out earlier.
by TheAntiSox on Aug 29, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i dont think its walden
that would be the worst trade ever made in the history of baseball. i could see it if the rays agreed to pay some of the salary but you dont trade marquee prospects AND take on all the money for a a guy with a 6.00 ERA.
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Aug 29, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
But we were desperate for a 5th starter for the playoff run. While if we resign Lackey, we’ll have a dominant rotation until 2011 and by then we’ll have pitching prospects just like Walden.
Furthermore, we don’t know how well Walden with pitch after his elbow injury.
by TheAntiSox on Aug 29, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marquee Prospect
a hard thrower in the monors with a barking elbow on the DL is OFF the marquee. Walden might be a bigger risk than Kazmir save for the salary, Sweeney has already had bone chip problems in his hip as well.
by Rev Halofan on Aug 29, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be bad, but..
not the worst. The Giants trading Joe Nathan, Boof bonser and Francisco Liriano for AJ Pierzinski was by far the worst ever.
by fack54 on Aug 30, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it is Brandon Wood
Then this was a bad trade.
You will be forever in our hearts, Nick Adenhart.
by haloak on Aug 29, 2009 6:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i think the money made it bad from the get go
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Aug 29, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if?
What if the PTBNL is Kendrick?
Think about it: What player would elicit an “I’m excited” comment from Maddon? It should be a player he was familiar with when he was still bench coach on the Angels, and he hasn’t been in that capacity for a few years. Some kid at AA isn’t likely to get Maddon as giddy as a kid he nurtured in Anaheim a few years back.
So, I figure it like this: After the season is over, the Angels and Rays agree the PTBNL is Howie Kendrick (who doesn’t have to go through waivers now the season is over).
If the Angels put Kendrick in as the 3rd player, that opens up 2B. Option One is to work furiously to re-sign Figgins and install him at 2B; failing that, Option Two is to put Sean Rodriguez there. When you think about it, it is very much like the gambit Reagins played with Teixeira: heads, we resign Teixeira; tails, we put Morales on the field.
Either way, Wood slides into 3B as his own. Wood doesn’t do the Rays any good with Longoria already signed to a long-term contract and Jason Bartlett playing (and hitting) very effectively at SS, so the idea he would be the PTBNL is daft.
But by taking Kendrick, the Rays could move Zobrist to the OF permanently, bid adieu to Carl Crawford and count on Kendrick to make up for some of Crawford’s speed on the basepaths. We know that the Rays are trying to find ways to shave a few million $ from the 2010 payroll, and not signing Crawford because a lesser-paid player is taking over his roster spot (if not his defensive position) saves the Rays $7M over his 2009 salary (after accounting for the buyout). Add in the money NOT being paid to Kazmir in 2010 and the Rays would save $15M in 2010 salaries on this trade, less the money Kendrick figures to receive in his first year of Arbitration (which won’t be spectacular due to his unspectacular season).
Promotional Bonus for the Rays: Howie is from Sarasota, FL, less than an hour’s drive South of Tampa/St. Pete. That gives a whole bunch of marketing opportunities for the Rays to welcome home a native son.
Maybe I’m wrong. But I don’t see Brandon Wood making a lick of sense as a gimme to the Rays, and I don’t think Jordan Walden is going to make Madden light up like a love-struck schoolgirl. We’ll see in the fullness of time, of course, but my hunch is that it is Kendrick.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Aug 29, 2009 9:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
they would be STUPID to do that
it’s got to be another minor leaguer… either one thats on the DL or one thats on the 40-man roster and won’t clear waivers. they’re waiting til after the season for a reason…
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Aug 29, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNL
It may all rest on season’s end on which player is adequate compensation for Kazmir’s performance as an Angel in the final month of the season. Maybe if he does well, the Rays will pick from List A, and if he struggles they pick from List B.
Except Maddon was jazzed about a particular player, which means the guy has already been decided upon by both teams.
But meantime, here is the 40-man roster list. If you can find a better choice for PTBNL, then please share (BTW, not “better” from the standpoint of the Rays get their pocket picked, but “better” in the sense that both teams will benefit from the transaction).
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Aug 30, 2009 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think
it’s Sean Rodriguez. he’s versatile, young, cheap and blocked.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Aug 30, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
An interesting and horrifying conjecture
But an implausible one, it seems to me. Certainly not impossible, but definitely implausible.
First off, there’s the wild imbalance in value. Howie for Kazmir straight up, perhaps; Howie plus two promising prospects for Kazmir—well, that’s Steve Phillips stupid. That trade would simply not be consistent with the Angels institutional trading characteristics in the Stoneman-Reagins era, unless you believe that the team has given up on Howie (and that is not at all evident to me).
Second, as I saw the trade developing, the PTBNL served as a last-minute pot-sweetener, an incremental improvement in value for the Rays. Howie is hardly that relative to the two prospects. It seems logical to me that the PTBNL is not someone the Angels value considerably more than the two named prospects.
Third, I just can’t assign as much significance to Maddon’s profession of excitement as you do. Even if he is being utterly straightforward, and not merely trying to reassure distraught Rays fans, I see no particular reason to believe that his excitement is due to anything more than the acquisition of a prospect in whom he sees significant potential.
Your posts are always well-reasoned, and your prediction is certainly possible. I guess what I’m ultimately saying is that if you do turn out to be correct, it would constitute a significant departure from the Angels’ trade behavior over the past 8 years or so. I honestly have no idea who the PTBNL is, but I’d be shocked to discover it to be Howie.
by rspencer on Aug 30, 2009 2:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points, all
Certainly, I’m not lobbying for Kendrick to be included, but simply trying to parse Maddon’s comment.
Budde or Wilson? Maybe. Neither has shown more than Mathis-level offense at MLB, so I don’t know why they’d be excited (have they given up on Navarro?).
Terry Evans? Perhaps. He doesn’t excite me, so maybe that is my bias.
Mark Trumbo? He might be important to a team staring down the loss of Pena in 2011, and made redundant by the emergence of Morales, but he is still requiring a lot of polishing to be “exciting”.
I have a Howie home jersey in the closet, so I want it to be valid for years. I do wonder, though, if Kendrick’s stock in the trade market might have dropped (A) due to a perception that he is injury-prone, and (B) due to his demotion earlier this year. However, it is also true that he’s hitting .347/.388/.512 since his return. If I can figure that out, I imagine Tampa Bay and Reagins can as well.
So, “improbable”? Sure, I guess so. I was just trying to figure out the chess moves on our roster which would radiate from such a trade inclusion, and, as I said before, who exactly would cause Maddon to make such a statement.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Aug 30, 2009 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bias?
“Terry Evans? Perhaps. He doesn’t excite me, so maybe that is my bias”
My bias says that the Angels would love it if Terry Evans were their reserve outfielder instead of GMJr. Willit/Evans. Evans/Willits. What do you do?
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be a lot more excited about Evans, if...
he wasn’t 27 and still unable to cut down on his strikeouts. If he is that vulnerable to AAA pitching, how does he hope to progress at the MLB level? He is averaging better than one K per every 4 AB, and with 137 K juxtaposed with 38 BB, it doesn’t tell me he has a lot of plate discipline.
His power numbers are fine but I don’t put a lot of stock into power numbers at SLC. Dallas McPherson, anyone?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Aug 30, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lot of K's, yes.
But that didn’t stop them with McPherson or Napoli or SRod or BWood.
I suspect the guys in AAA have in the back of their minds that they’re not going to “walk” their way to the show.
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate,
Replace Kendrick with Maicir Izturis in your suggestion.
Maicir is a free agent after the 2010 season, typically a time when players would be “moved”……..ala OCab.
The replacement cycle has to start somewhere.
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 5:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a frickin scrub already, OK?
Though maybe Reagins lets another potential useful piece in bullpen slip from his grasp.
I doubt it is Walden or Wood.
These PTBNL types are usually the organization’s rank-and-file guys who have limited upside.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
by BBFan1 on Aug 29, 2009 11:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, who?
Who would Maddon find so intriguing?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Aug 30, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps it's just Maddon being Maddon
He’s always had a reputation for having a very dry wit…..
Someone is getting a good laugh with all the speculation that the Angels would trade Kendrick or Wood + 2 other players for a pitcher who has a +5 ERA this season.
by mustard_man on Aug 30, 2009 5:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably the right response
I can see him kidding around a bit – maybe someone had asked a question about who the Rays were getting.
Maddon’s point was he doesn’t know much about the two players [Torres and Sweeney] and certainly not the player who hasn’t even been named yet.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
by BBFan1 on Aug 31, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intriguing?
Izturis, Willits, Bobby Wilson, Mathis (I don’t think so), Budde, Terry Evans…………….?.
I find it hard to accept that Reagins would include Wood, SRod, or Kendrick in this deal.
I’ve said before: Let’s not forget that it was Joe Maddon who originally suggested that we obtain Steve Finley.
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 5:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do the Rays need a catcher?
A catcher brought up in the Angels’ organization might be intriguing to Maddon due to the Rays’ backstop situation……..especially if he’s from a place like Dunedin, Florida.
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rays' Backstop Situation
Sorry about the link above.
A plausible reason Bobby Wilson would be a PTBNL is Reagins’ proper care that we have a backup catcher in the event something happens to either Mathis or Napoli down the stretch. Next year, Conger will be in AAA. At least one of our catchers has to go.
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 6:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might be right.
I have a hard time figuring that Bobby Wilson couldn’t slide through waivers, though. He isn’t Carlos Santana, after all. The supposed idea about waiting to announce is because the player couldn’t get through waivers—he’s too strong a prospect.
But…as you said, maybe the St Petersburg CC connection is the golden ticket.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Aug 30, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They need an insurance policy
in case Mathis or Napoli gets hurt.
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't that become Budde's job?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Aug 30, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wilson > Budde
For the rest of the season, the Angels would still have Wilson’s services.
by jjackflash on Aug 30, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's the best defensive catcher in the PCL
As a back-up, that’s very valuable, especially when the alternative is paying greg zaun $2 mil next year
by rghan on Aug 30, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man - you beat me to it
I’ve been hacking away at this all morning, and finally decided it’s Bobby. But I hadn’t read this, and assumed I was alone in my brilliant deduction.
by rghan on Aug 30, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would suspect they might prefer
Wilson for both offensive and defensive purposes.
These guys are planning on a World Series championship.
Of course, as the title of our discussion speculates, the PTBNL may be Brandon Wood.
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 8:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe now we should start wishing that
we could sign Carl Crawford for our outfield after his contract and/or option expires. Figgin’s speed replaced? 28…..29 years old.
Put CC in LF and Rivera in RF with Vlad at DH. Another Hall of Fame candidate.
Who would we rather sign to a big contract, CC or Abreu?
Just thinkin’………………..
by wumbug on Aug 30, 2009 9:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the PTBNL had better not be ...
Wood or S-Rod. We will live to regret that one … unless WE WIN IT ALL, BABY!
Torii Hunter: Best Halo Ever.
by LazorkoRules on Aug 30, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The more I think, the less sure I am about anything.
I’ve taken time to study the Tampa lineup and their salary commitments through 2010. If money is the issue, we’ve got the sauce.
We wouldn’t give up another pitcher,…………………. would we?
Outfield and catcher appear to be TBR’s biggest needs next year, or certainly after the 2010 season. However, I have to wonder who they have in mind playing 1B after Pena’s contract ends next year. They’re paying Carlos Pena $10.125MM in 2010, so you know he’s not long for the thereafter.
Mark Trumbo’s progress through our minor league system seems to be timed right. Maybe Freddy Sandoval is of interest. (I think Matt Brown is a minor league free agent after this season, so we will have no control unless he signs with us).
If salary is the issue, they could use inexpensive outfielders……we’ve got inexpensive outfielders: Reggie Willits, Terry Evans, Chris Pettit. Carl Crawford won’t be re-signed after a 2010 $10MM option year. Pat Burrell at DH is likely gone after his $9MM 2010. BJ Upton is doing OK, but I wouldn’t say he appears to be thriving in CF.
True, Gregg Zaun is likely gone as the backup catcher after this season and Navarro appears to be wobbling. Bobby Wilson would be a great aquisition, but as a PTBNL Ryan Budde would also be a nice backup replacement for Zaun.
The fearful question in my mind is not what Tampa Bay asked for. The fear in my mind is what did Reagins & Co. agreed to give up.
Wood and SRod would be starting for almost anyone else next season…..certainly Tampa Bay. If they’re not included in the PTBNL, I expect them to start for the Angels in 2010. Bobby Wilson would probably be starting for TBR; Budde would back up. Any one of Willits, TEvans, CPettit would probably start for TBR in 2010. All of the above would make less than $.5MM.
If bang for the buck means anything, the TBR’s will be looking for a cheap replacement for Carl Crawford, Pat Burrell, or Carlos Pena; Zaun’s replacement is peanuts. However, if catcher is truly as important as Scioscia teaches us, forget the money……..replace the catcher.
Why is this a PTBNL?
To protect the Angels’ interests due to playoff considerations?
To give the Angels time to manipulate their 40-man roster?
To protect the Angels’ AA or AAA teams during the final weeks of their seasons?
I don’t know!
by wumbug on Aug 31, 2009 9:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs


















