Worst Bad Umpiring Counterpoint. Ever.
by PhiSlamma on Sep 18, 2009 12:55 AM PDT
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PrintThe loss the other night to the Red Sox was brutal, for many reasons. Some of us watched it on TV, anxiously finding excuses to go to the kitchen, or bathroom to break up the tension of leaning towards your television on the verge of a heart attack. The others probably were listening to it on the radio, having to punch a kitten in the face in frustration, and counting the seconds to when they could watch a replay of what happened.
Then there are those of you who just watch gameday.... Poor Kids.
Either way, we all were exposed to some form of distraught feelings. Some of us swore at the TV. Some of us threw stuff against the wall. Some of us plotted to blow up Fenway. Some of us did got drunk and beat our wives.... oh wait, sorry, that's the Red Sox fanbase.
We all got to a point last night where we had to cope with what we had just witnessed. Some made excuses, some pointed out different things that could have happened, or different ways to look at the two very obviously blown calls, others had bitter optimism. I can appreciate almost all of these.
Except this stupid one:
After listening to this point the last 70 something hours from different posters and ESPN radio personalities or Hud himself, I kind of snapped a little. This form of reasoning is so infuriating, so ass backward, so logic defying that my skin literally tingles with roid rage when anyone uses it...
"Well, we shouldn't have put ourselves in a position to where the umpire could have made a bad call to make us lose"
To those of you who actually think this way, I am sorry. I am sorry you think this way. Its unhealthy.
I cannot believe someone, anyone, especially somewhat intelligent people, think that the highest tier of professional umpires (who get paid quite a bit of money) are somehow not at fault when put into a position when their expertise is most required.
Why is it okay to use that excuse for umps? Umps tell teams "Well you shouldn't have gotten yourself in a position for me to make a bad call to decide the game"
Let me ask you a question. Would this fly at your work?...
"Hey boss, I know I bombed during that incredibly important meeting with the client that would have saved our company, but hey, you shouldn't have put yourself in a position to where I could have bombed in front of them to ruin the presentation."
Maybe a ball player?...
"Hey Coach, I know I completely failed out there. I struck out with the bases loaded again, third time this game. I know my RISP is 0.000. But hey, you shouldn't put me in a situation where I could strike out with the bases loaded."
The President?...
"Dear American People. I know I launched a whole bunch of nukes into Canada today, I screwed up. Whoops. I got nervous in a meeting with them, you know that crazy French/Canadian accent thing, and I pressed the big red button a few dozen times. But hey, you shouldn't have put me in a situation where I could have gotten nervous and killed millions of people."
It would not fly for you, or anyone else. Why is it okay for Umpires?
They are PAID MONEY to make calls in those situations. Its fantastic that you make correct calls when the game is not on the line in a 109-0 game that isn't televised. I'm proud of you. But for anyone to have the audacity to make the point that somehow its okay for them to blow two calls in one at bat to force one team to lose because "one team put themselves into a situation where its okay for a ump to blow a call, because they deserved it, its a close game" is just.... you know, stupid.
There is something called parity in top-tier MLB teams. They are built to win. So games between these clubs will be close. A lot of them.
Some even in the playoffs.
Its not because one team sat down and let the other team pitch to them with the bases loaded, taking the strikeout, and knowing that they are going to throw the ball with their erect penises at the plate and the ump will just reward them the game.
No.
Games are close because other teams prevent their opponents from scoring.
The fact that umps trivialize their own professional integrity by somehow thinking its okay to blow calls in close games because one team deserves it for letting it be that close should be illegal.
Fans that think this way need to be shot.
A close game is no reason for an ump to blow calls. Ever.
That is when they should get all the calls right. Really focus on adopting the spirit of the game, applying it to the situation and making sure that the team that wins is the one that played the best. They get paid to do this.
A seventy something year old umpire who recently had a stroke should in no way be judging balls and strikes in a nationally televised game between bitter rivals. Or in the playoffs. Or in little league.
They get paid to make the right calls. You get paid to preform in the clutch. Your boss wouldn't except some lame ass excuse from you, because you are held accountable for you actions. Apparently, MLB umpires are not because douche bags like you let them off the hook.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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I am going to have to invent some sort of posting awards
just to give you an award for this post.
by Rev Halofan on Sep 18, 2009 12:59 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I would like to thanks God....
and energy drinks
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Well said up above
and a tip of the cap for the post. Nicely sums up how I felt about the game and I agree that the quoted statement in bold above is a terrible way to view things. As a math instructor, I hear this a lot from my students and I wonder how did things get this way? (Answer: Simply because we allow them to)
Beat the Angels if you can... Survive if they let you.
Yo, PhiSlamma...
I’m happy for you and imma gonna let you finish but I just got to say that Ca1ifornia Angels had the greatest FanPost of all time!
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
by red floyd on Sep 18, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Actually, that should have gone under billhune's post below.
It was early, I wasn’t fully awake yet.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
I no longer have any faith in the quality of MLB umpiring.
Baseball game should be determined by the game playing, not bad calls.
-- RIP Nick Adenhart
Very well written, but I disagree
The statement, “Well, we shouldn’t have put ourselves in a position to where the umpire could have made a bad call to make us lose” isn’t deflecting blame from the umpires, but rather placing the blame on the team who had a one run lead loading the bases. Which is where the blame should be placed. The umpires didn’t load the bases putting the tying run at third.
Your analogy about work is wrong too. Maybe your boss shouldn’t have made the numerous other mistakes that would lead to one mistake ruining a company. To put the entire blame on the last mistake, when numerous other mistakes were previously made, doesn’t make sense.
Here’s my analogy: “I lit the fuse on this bundle of dynamite, but it’s the other guy’s fault that it blew me up. After all, it was his job to call the bomb squad.” Yeah? Well maybe I shouldn’t have lit the fuse.
Should the umpires make the right call? Absolutely. And I’m just as frustrated as anyone about the way that game was lost, but to put all of the blame on the umpires is wrong.
Call me stupid and shoot me now.
by WiHaloFan on Sep 18, 2009 2:55 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Leaving Runners on Base
is not mistakes.
Yes, that specific game errors were made, but what if they werent?
I think clutch pitching with runnners on isnt considered a mistake. Thats called competition.
You are not playing solitaire, there is active competition with real people.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Right
Also, whatever flaws that occurred in the Angels’ play during the game were more than compensated for by the fact that they were ahead at the time. You can’t say, “Yeah, well, the Angels would have been ahead by five runs had they played better;” the fact is, the Angels were ahead in any event. You can on the other hand say that the Angels literally had the game won but for the egregious missed call on that last pitch, even if you leave out the even more egregious missed call on the unchecked swing.
A R R R R R R G H
Et tu, WiHaloFan?
Blaming the Angels for that loss is like blaming a rape on the victim because she wore a low-cut dress!
This game was not lost on a missed close call at first that required slow-mo shots from several angles to detect. It was stolen on a four-strike walk that needed no replays to detect.
Just as a woman has a right to expect safe passage in public despite the plunge of her neckline, the Angels had a right to expect minimally competent officiating despite the tenuousness of their lead.
What irks me the most about the situation is the fact that Rick Reed is free to double down on his ineptitude (and I am being charitable in putting it down to that) by filing a complaint against the team for being unhappy at having a close game stolen from them. While coaches are supposed to be Knights Templar at all times, umpires are free to do whatever the hell they want with absolutely no consequences.
Yeah, me too.
Sorry, but I’m not going to debate the rape analogy. No matter what I write, it won’t come out right and will sound like I’m condoning rape.
But the one question I have for you is; Did Fuentes do his job?
You can answer “yes” if the umpires hadn’t blown the 2 calls. But for over a hundred years, that’s been part of the game. Fuentes’ job was to end the inning without any runs scoring. He failed. If there hadn’t been anyone on base, those two calls wouldn’t have meant anything, and we’d be talking about the Angels winning 2 of 3 in Boston.
The Angels were screwed by the umpires, but it wasn’t entirely their fault.
by WiHaloFan on Sep 18, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What is Fuentes' job?
Is it to be elegant, or is it to end the game with his team still ahead? If the latter, then he did his job.
Really?
Oh, then I’m sorry. I thought the Angels lost that game. Obviously my TV was showing a different game, one where the Red Sox scored the winning run in the bottom of the 9th with a single off of Fuentes.
by WiHaloFan on Sep 18, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I believe that rspencer's point (correct me if I am wrong rspencer) is that
Fuentes did his job of ending the game while the Halos still had the lead. And he did that job twice. The fact that the umpiring crew did not punch Fuentes’ timecard when his shift legally ended is a different thing.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
Thanks, Stirrups, you're right
Gee, WiHaloFan, it wasn’t my intention to start a flame war. I admire your contributions to the site, and I value your opinions. I’m honestly sorry if I didn’t express my disagreement in sufficiently respectful terms.
So you see, there’s absolutely no need for snark here.
Comparing a baseball game to rape is not acceptable in any sort of forum
Nor is comparing baseball to war.
Baseball is a game. War and rape are crimes. Get this straight.
Don't call me Desmond!
by highlandhalo on Sep 19, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Analogies are analogies
Not comparisons.
I salute your sensitivity to this subject, but I sincerely believe it is misplaced here. My point is that I believe that blaming the victim of the act rather than the perpetrator is unjust, and I used the example of rape because blaming the victim in rape cases is a famously scurrilous defense.
I hope you will accept my apology for giving inadvertent offense with my hyperbolic example. My intent was merely to clarify my point via reductio ad absurdam, not to trivialize one of the most vile of crimes.
Gonna agree with WHF here.
The “we shouldn’t have put ourselves in a position where we had to rely on the umps getting it right” logic is fundamentally sound. Why? Because sometimes they get it wrong. That’s reality. That recognition of reality does not condone that errors do happen, it merely accepts it as the reality. We have airbags in our cars because sometimes people get in accidents. We have instant replay because sometimes umps are fallible. And the best antidote for those situations is to not put yourself in those situations.
Torii Hunter: Best Halo Ever.
by LazorkoRules on Sep 18, 2009 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"We have instant replay because sometimes umps are fallible."
But we don’t, other than the-twice-a-season event of a home run review. 99.9% of every call an umpire makes can be accurately reviewed with video. I’m not saying review every call, but shouldn’t umpires who make these awful calls (especially if it happens with some regularity) be held accountable? If you call up a right fielder from the minors, and all year long he proves to be one of the very worst players in the majors, he will be replaced the following year, if not sooner. When was the last time an awful umpire was replaced? There is so much that can happen in any sporting event that can shift momentum in the direction of either competitor. The officiating should be the one constant.
Well said
Many things lead up to the final outcome.
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on Sep 18, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
You're better off not watching it
This season is my best chance to get called out of the stands to pitch.
by Rally Manatee on Sep 19, 2009 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I understand the fury, but...
Look, I get really infuriated when I play tennis and an umpire blows a call (I’m not like Serena, but more like Federer or Safin where I just smash my racket then eyeball the umpire daring him to caution me for my actions), but I’ll say this. The Halos shouldn’t have lost the game on that last play. It should’ve been a pop-out not a single. The lack of effort from Rivera (I think?) was atrocious.
I know my comments will be really unpopular on here, but for goodness sakes don’t become like the Cubbies who blame their loss to Florida in the 2003 NLCS on Steve Bartman. Yeah, he may have cost them an out, but they went on to commit an error, allow 8 runs and hand the game to the Marlins.
Anyway, see you guys in the ALDS…again!
by Lowrie on Sep 18, 2009 5:02 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
What kept me from totally losing it is that this game wasn't being played in October
Hopefully this one game won’t come back to bite us, but sweep it under the rug and let’s get ready to beat ’em in the playoffs.
Hooters anyone?
by Chone's Chonies on Sep 18, 2009 5:20 AM PDT reply actions
Good post
I agree the calls were terrible, and I understand your argument. But that doesn’t change the fact that :
a) We left 28 runners on base. 28!
b) Juan Rivera channeling the spirit of GA and not making any effort to catch that last fly ball
c) Brian Fuentes completely breaking down BEFORE the bad calls. The inning should have been over before Green ever even came up to bat.
Again, I understand where you’re coming from, and I even agree with some of your analogies, but we blew that game. We didn’t capitalize when we had the chance.
RIP Nick. We will miss you!
by KingF15h on Sep 18, 2009 5:21 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I understand the srgument you're trying to make
but the situation is far too complex to say the Umps are more responsible then anything else. I’ve always felt that since the umpiring is the ONLY thing in a game that you know may become unreliable, you thus bear full responsibilty if you let it get to that point. If you’re walking down the street and someone grabs your purse, it’s their fault. If you take $5000 out from the ATM and take a walk through the 9th Annual Pickpocketers of America Convention and someone grabs your purse, who’s’ fault is it then?
Captain, there are doubt's...
by Match Day 5 on Sep 18, 2009 5:28 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
At the 9th Annual PickPocketers convention...
it would be your fault (in judgment) for going, but it would be their fault(s) (legally) for taking your money.
Who do you think a court is going to convict: you for (innocently) going? Or them for illegally stealing from you?
QED.
by shiftyeyedgoat on Sep 23, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
29
Agree, KingF15h & scareduck. Wasn’t it 29 LOB though?
And does Rivera’s offensive output justify his presence on defense in LF?
I feel...unusual
Time to move on...
I am a Braves fan, and I understand why Angels fans are upset. But to drag it on for a whole second day, come on! The Angels are already in the playoffs! This game doesn’t really matter! The Red Sox are already in the playoffs, as there is no hope of Texas making a comeback. Your regular season is already figured out!
The Braves are in the middle of a tough wildcard race and we have had to deal with the same kind of poor umpiring multiple times this season. If there was ever a team out there that the umpires are out to get, it’s the Braves. Check out this video from mlb.com from a matchup between the Braves/Marlins this past July (at the time we were in a division battle), where the umpire calls a strike on a 2-1 count to Brian McCann. The next pitch, he grounds a 2-2 pitch into a double play instead of having the opportunity to take a 3-1 pitch for a chance at a walk. The pitch in question was about a foot outside of the plate out in no mans land.
http://www.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090729&content_id=6129128&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
We feel your pain in Atlanta, but geez, move on already!
and...
the point to all of this is that the umpiring has gotten progressively worse since Frank Robinson stopped being in charge of the umps. It is time for computer assistance on the strike zone.
Miss you Nick...! RIP
Frank Robinson dealt with the player fines and suspensions before Bob Watson
I think it has gone backwards since Sandy Alderson left the commish office. He was executive vice president for baseball operations and his major job was to control the umpires. He is the guy that fired all those zero’s in 99 and then made the umpires into MLB Umps and not AL / NL umps
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on Sep 21, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
great post
What many people don’t realize is that we DID put ourselves in the position to win and it was awarded to us. Twice, in fact.
P.S- Did anybody notice Nick Green’s face immediately after he tried to check his swing? It said “Ohhhhhhhhh shit, i just blew the game.”
by gary matthews jr. jr. on Sep 18, 2009 6:47 AM PDT reply actions
As a counter-point, you are right, it's really dumb.
The performance of the umpire’s – whether good or bad – needs to be judged separately on its own merits. One has NOTHING to do with the other.
The umpiring crew blew it twice – in favor of the same team on both occasions – in the critical AB of the game.
Maybe I wasn't paying as much attention when I was younger but...
This current batch of umpires seem to blow more calls when it matters than the umps back in the day.
I know blown calls have been and will be forever but does it seem like that to anyone else? These umpires really suck at their jobs.
Buck Foston!
We got squeezed. That's all.
I don’t remember anyone bitching when Joe Nathan got squeezed earlier this year in a nice Angel comeback win. (and he DID get squeezed). We can’t have it both ways.
It just hurt so much more because it was the cherry on top of the most frustrating game I can remember and it was the Sahx.
Umps make mistakes. It should ultimately even out. And it’s nothing like killing Canadians.
I award you points for passion only.
But the only reason Nathan was even in the game to get squeezed is because
the umps blew a call earlier in the game which awarded the Twins a run. Not to mention that getting squeezed on the corners is a different matter from calling a low strike right down the heart of the plate ball four which walks in the tying run.
~Till the Halo burns out...
You're making my point...
That blown calls tend to even out. Usually not in the same game but over a season.
I’m not defending the umps for blowing it. I just know that it’s happened before and will happen again. So I am under no delusion that “Life is Fair”.
We’re all “damaged goods” because this kind of thing brings up everybody’s suppressed Eddings Complex. That still pisses me off, too. More so because Edding was a chicken-shit and wouldn’t admit he signaled the batter out.
For the record, Green was struck out twice in the same at bat. So go ahead and vent. Everybody agrees on that.
But continuing to break down the minutia of getting fucked….
I find the notion that "blown calls tend to even out...over a season" to be highly dubious.
I cannot imagine that this is anything more than a gut feeling. Or a parable.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
As you say, it's happened before, it'll happen again.
But I’m pretty sure people complained before. And they’ll continue to do so in the future. So let people vent. He blew the call. Angel fans have a right to be mad about it. It won’t change anything, but we’re right.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Rule # 3. "Bitch once...It'll be alright"
I’m not stopping people from venting. I was glad to see this post as I felt many of the exact same emotions after that game. By the time the Angels won the next night, move on. I’m glad the team did.
There’s a fine line between having a completely legitimate complaint (which we have) and whining about it to the point of sounding like a crybaby.
It’s gone from cathartic to pathetic. Let us not become pathetic BoSox fans pre-2004.
But we haven't.
I mean really, there was the original topic, and then there’s been this topic which basically defends the people complaining in the original topic. We had what, one other topic by Gorbechev on the subject of blaming the umps. I don’t think we’ve gone over the top here.
~Till the Halo burns out...
The check swing was a strike
But from what I saw, the pitch that was called ball 4 was low. It wasn’t a strike. The ump consistently called that pitch a ball in that location.
I am fan various years ago.
What Fucking game were you watching. Go check the OC Register site for your proof!
"I am not impressed by your per-formence!" -GSP
by KubanKowbell19 on Sep 18, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I would agree with you....
Most umps would call that pitch a ball, but he had been calling it a strike ALL NIGHT! I don’t get worked up on balls and strikes for umpires who are consistent, but those who change there calls consistently drive me bananas!
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Sep 18, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s back asswards.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Sep 18, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Well written, but there are concepts that are in error.
And I can use your own example to explain why.
As a matter of fact, we do deal with this in the business world all the time. I have spent the past 28 years in the IT world. Both on the vendor and the customer side. During that time I have had exhaustive training in presentation skills, which I have used with customers and with executives. When the time comes that you need to deliver a technical presentation to an audience, one of the many fundamental rules is that you ALWAYS take an extra projector. You NEVER assume that your audience has the audio-visual tools, or that those tools are in working order, or that those tools will NOT fail during your time with your audience.
In other words, there ARE times when you cannot assume that your business effort will run on so close of a margin for error. So you use the resources that you DO have control over, to put yourself into a position that you can succeed in spite of those things that you do NOT have control over.
But it is all a matter of return on the investment over the effort. If there is a $10million sale at stake it is a no-brainer to take along $900 worth of projector ‘insurance’. But you have the advantage of knowing EXACTLY WHAT IS AT STAKE.
The problem with baseball, however, is that you do NOT know what is at stake as the game goes on. You do not know the ‘return on investment’. You do not know what the margin of erro might be in a latter inning. And to assume that you must maximize EVERY potential in EVERY inning or EVERY slight opportunity is to assume that your player resources are inexhaustable. Which they are not.
The Angels did NOT know that they needed to be more urgent in the earlier innings to score more runs. Even if they did, would the ‘investment’ back then have been worth it? Should they have pinch hit for Vlad in the third? And for Figgy and Aybar in the 6th? Seems insane to even consider doing that, and we are only able to consider doing that KNOWING what eventually did happen. None of us knew any of these rquirements in the 3rd, or in the 6th.
Further, our knowledge of what eventually DID happen is, itself, incomplete. Had the Angels been up by TWO runs in the 9th instead of one, the Sox would have AT LEAST tied the game and they would still have the winning run in scoring position. How would that have played out? We will never know. So we do not really know how many runs were REALLY needed earlier in the game to create a sufficient margin for error.
But, boy, it sure is easy to pretend that we know EXACTLY what the Angels needed to do.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
The other difference in the business world is that it doesn't matter how many other people
had to mess up before the problem finally fell into your lap. If your decision is the one that ends up screwing the pooch, your ass is the one that’s grass.
~Till the Halo burns out...
I have this Law that I have used repeatedly over the years. It always gets a smile of recognition.
Someday, I would like to have it become as famous as Murphy’s.
This Law states: “The longer an employee sustains a career within any company, the greater the likelihood that they will eventually inherit full responsibility for the success of every project that they warned against earlier in their career.”
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
The converse is also true
The shorter a person stays with a company the greater the chance that all mistakes will be blamed on them after they leave.
Application of this law has allowed me to stay around Pepsi long enough to take advantage of Stirrups Law
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Now that I read back the wording of my own post, it would be easy to misinterpret the meaning of my Law.
This Law should state: "The longer an employee sustains a career within any company, the greater the likelihood that they will eventually inherit full responsibility for correcting the failures of every project that they warned against earlier in their career."
And, yes, all thing wrong in business are ALWAYS blamed on those recently departed. This is the “Six Month Window of Free Passes For Everybody Left Standing”.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
Crap. Still needs tuning.
How about: “The longer an employee sustains a career within any company, the greater the likelihood that they will eventually inherit all blame for the failures of every project that they warned against earlier in their career.”
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
I don't understand the "warned against" part?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
You sit on a review panel and find yourself the lone voice of dissent in a decision.
You list reasons why you feel the decision is wrong, and a bad idea. You get outvoted. The department proceeds with the project that you feel is a mistake. Sure enough, all your predictions come true. Everything blows up. Those who made the decision struggle valiantly to put on a brave face and pretend everything is just fine. But over time the egg on the department’s face, the lack of goodwill from the other departments,and the executive ire slowly delete everyone on the original team except you.
This is not an accident. You understand the values and the objectives of the company, which is what drove your original analysis. The other team members are not, so their deicision-making skills were drivne more by self interest. The same thing that prevented them from making a good decision earlier, now makes it more likely that they will want to go work elsewhere.
So, there you are. The last person standing on that original review panel. The only one who warned against going with the project as planned. The only one who knew what a big mistake the project was going to turn out to be, and has turned out to be. But you are the last one of that panel still employed, so the company looks at you to fix everything, and to make it work. It is now YOUR fault, alone.
You now owe the very thing you warned against.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
Ah, that makes sense--Thanks for the explanation!
I’m a bit slow on the uptake on these things, as I’m sure you’ve observed…
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
The bigger issue here and the reason this is a worthy discussion
even days or weeks later, is what if this had been game 5 of the playoffs? The Angels post season ends. The umpire in question, upon reviewing the video, admitted he made a mistake. Why not use video in critical moments of critical games?
In the playoffs each manager gets 1 or 2 reviewable calls per game. A strike call could reviewed on a telestrator box.
If they cant, or wont, deal with incompetent umpires then it is time for MLB to just do it.
by george, he's got it on Sep 18, 2009 11:29 AM PDT reply actions
To which call do you refer, the check swing or the non-called 3rd strike?
I can potentially see using video for the check swing.
No matter what happens, I doubt you will EVER have video review of balls and strikes (i.e., non-swinging strikes). Too many variables.
Why we need robots, and why we're not going to get them
There is not much symmetry regarding how blame and responsibility are distributed in baseball. The bare fact is that hitting is hard: even the best hitters fail to get on base more than 50% of the time. A hitter can be excused for not coming through once or twice in a specific game. But because hitting is hard, much more is expected of the pitching and defense. Pitchers should not invite two-out rallies, defenders should not boot routine plays, etc. They’re expected to be nearly perfect. But sometimes two-out rallies happen, sometimes balls get misplayed. It’s part of the game. It’s written into the rulebook. Allowing a two-out rally, walking guys, and committing errors are not rule violations. These things keep baseball interesting and entertaining. The Angels’ job is to play baseball by the rules. They did nothing wrong on Wednesday. They committed no sin on the field, and they don’t need to repent.
Some will claim that blown calls are also part of the game. If you want to think that, fine, I won’t argue with your appreciation of baseball. But blown calls are not in the rulebook. The rules just assume that umpires are perfect and infallible. (There are rules about how much you can argue, how to file a formal complaint, etc., but MLB functions under the official fantasy that an umpire’s decision is incontestable.) So umpires are hired who come as close to the ideal as possible. For the most part, they are as good as can be expected of humans.
But in this situation, the umpires blatantly did not do what the rules of expected of them. The Angels did not play a perfect game on the field, but a perfect baseball game would be a very boring 0-0 tie through infinitely many innings. It is not their job to be perfect. But twice in that eventful at-bat, their pitcher got the required third strike as stated in the rules. The umpires did not uphold the rules.
When players and managers make mistakes harmful to others, they are usually punished, often by the umpires. If it were not this way, they would abuse their freedom. But there is little that can be done about an umpire’s mistake. Remember Mike Winters, the guy who taunted Milton Bradley? He finally did get suspended by the league (for five games), but not because of the Padres. Milton Bradley ended up with a torn ACL.
The Angels have a legitimate reason to be angry. But because of the way the system is set up, they are shouting down the barrel of a gun. The system did not work, but in the end, they will likely be punished just for complaining about it. They’re challenging the official fantasy of umpire infallibility. Both the league and the union have a very deep interest in protecting the official fantasy. The umpire’s union wants to protect the jobs of old, ineffective umpires like Rick Reed. The league doesn’t want to risk a work-stopping strike, which might call attention to some of their (probably illegal) business practices. To the Angels and their fans, it’s just about balls and strikes. Things than robots can determine better than humans. To everyone else, it’s about money, power, and personal pride.
Sadly, that’s a fight the Angels—and fans in general—are not going to win.
by Suboptimal on Sep 18, 2009 12:39 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
To extend an underlying concept behind your post...
There is also a function of leverage. Had the umps blown those strike calls in the first inning, it would have also been bad, but not equally bad. There would have been ample opportunity for the Halos to recover. The fact that it occured in the bottom of the 9th meant that the failure was near infinite in terms of leverage. The impact on the Halos was extra-ordinary in that they had near zero recourse.
So not only is responsibility asymmetrical between the participating groups, the import of that responsibility is non-linear in progression over time as measured in innings. It is, in fact, trigometric.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
TrigoNOmetric, wise-gal.
I make a lot of typos around here. It’s part of my charm.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
by Stirrups on Sep 18, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
WTF is a trigonometric progression?
Is it one that’s cyclic? Since both sine and cosine cycle between +1 and -1 infinitely?
Or did you mean geometric?
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Beyond geometric.
Picture of it here.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
Haven't seen that stuff since High School
and there was a perfectly good reason why
R.I.P. King Ad-Rock #34
Yeah, but I take heart in the fact that I recognize at least SOME of the symbols.
This one: “1”
This one: “2”
And these two: “/” and “+”
Oh…and these: “(” and “)”
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
Good Stuff
That was right in my wheelhouse Stirrups. Another linky like that and I will put that ball in the pavilion seats lol.
Beat the Angels if you can... Survive if they let you.
by blast21dave on Sep 20, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Erm...
You mean periodic? Cyclic means that every element (in a group) is a power of some other element in some group. Depends on what area you are referring to
Beat the Angels if you can... Survive if they let you.
by blast21dave on Sep 20, 2009 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Bad calls on Hidden Plays (w/photos)
http://www.hiddenplays.com/2009/09/crappy-umpires-upset-at-being-called.html
"That rug really tied the room together."
by pantsfucious on Sep 18, 2009 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
that was nice and to the point
"The Angels need to NUT UP AND BEAT THESE FUCKERS ALREADY !" ~ by the most Romantico man in the World
It's funny, really
Most of the people disagreeing with PhiSlamma here are merely presenting their own coping method in the guise of a logical argument.
Did I say funny? I meant ANNOYING.
This is true...
Interesting point, since I disagreed with PhiSlamma, but now see your and his points.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Sep 18, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Coping method?
Apparently you’re still stuck at step one…DENIAL. Or possibly, based on this comment, you’ve moved on to ANGER.
Let me know when you’ve worked through BARGAINING and DEPRESSION and come to ACCEPTANCE.
We can talk again then.
by WiHaloFan on Sep 18, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kinda, but seriously getting an annoyed tone from your last post there.
Although in fairness to you, I don’t think taking a shot at your well-argued and thought out post (among others) all the way down here was a such great move by Spencer either. >_>;
~Till the Halo burns out...
Do you mean the "It's funny" post?
That wasn’t directed at WiHaloFan at all. My comments to him were made directly to his post above.
That post was directed at "most of the people disagreeing with PhiSlamma."
As WiHalo fan is one of those people, I think it was reasonable of him to assume that comment was directed at him as well.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Wait a minute.
I apologized to rspencer, not you.
So I guess you can just bite me (I might apologize later).
Thanks so much Phi Slamma
Great post! Have to laugh at some of the reactions,I’m a lifelong horseracing fan and you’ll hear people arguing if the race had just been one furlong longer,their horse would have won. Um,does not matter,it’s whose nose crossed the finish line first,THEY won! So people saying here we put ourselves in a bad position,what does that matter?!? WE WOULD HAVE WON THE GAME WITH THE CORRECT CALLS!!
Yeah. Interesting.
Even more so since you are comparing the events at hand to a sport where competitors will INTENTIONALLY try to lose, and for secret motives.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
Nah
TBs bred for speed which means too many breakdowns,also too many drugs allowed in American racing are the biggest problems. Jockeys share of the purse is alot of money for them to be trying to lose. Never heard of it being an issue at our SoCal tracks,Del Mar,Santa Anita,Hollywood Park. It’s alot of fun to hang out there with friends for the day! And I only make small bets. LOL
Don't let me disturb your slumber.
The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch
It matters completely
So people saying here we put ourselves in a bad position,what does that matter?!? WE WOULD HAVE WON THE GAME WITH THE CORRECT CALLS!!
And if the Queen had balls she’s be the King.
If, if, if…try this one on: If the Angels didn’t wander into two bases-loaded-and-one-out situations in the course of the game and leave each of them without scoring even one run, then the blown calls could just as easily been something which made the game close at the end, but still not a loss.
Blaming the loss on the umpires is simply trying to absolve the Angels of poor offensive play. Let’s acknowledge that the team played poorly defensively and offensively in the first two games of this series. Change those parameters—the very items the team can control, unlike umpriing—and the Angels have a 3-game sweep.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 19, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
How about this analogy?...
If Juan Rivera wasn’t so lazy, he would have TRIED TO CATCH THE FUCKING BALL!
My point exactly
yes, the Angels didn’t play well, but still, without the bad calls, the Angels still win.
"Figgins' OBP is still over 40!" -Steve Physioc
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