Vladdy or Matt Holliday

by Halos in DE on Sep 28, 2009 12:03 PM PDT Comment 45 comments

Got the idea from the Lackey post...

By the end of the year:Holliday is 29, Vlad is 36. Bold is the leader of the two in average season, using stats from baseball-reference.com.

By average it is based on 162 game season. Runs is the last column, sorry about that

	Year	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+
Vlad	14 Seasons	2243	418	44	407	1316	175	87	685	867	0.32	0.39	0.57	0.96	145
Holliday	6 Seasons	1023	225	26	152	588	80	23	318	601	0.32	0.39	0.55	0.93	133
Holliday	average	195	43	5	29	112	15	4	61	115	0.32	0.39	0.55	0.93	133
Vlad	average	197	37	4	36	116	15	8	60	76	0.32	0.39	0.57	0.96	145

	Year	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	R
Vlad	14 Seasons	3970	236	87	0	54	242	1182
Holliday	6 Seasons	1756	87	56	1	21	24	571
Holliday	average	335	17	11	0	4	5	109
Vlad	average	349	21	8	0	5	21	104

Vlad wins 10-5 with 5 ties - based on stats.

Poll

Would you rather sign...

Vlad

41 votes

Holliday

50 votes

Both

20 votes

Neither

37 votes

148 votes | Poll has closed

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

0 recs | Comment 45 comments

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Comments

Obviously I love Vlad.....will always love Vlad

but if you’re asking who’s better for the team now and in the future obviously it would have to Holliday.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 28, 2009 12:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Pass on Holliday

give his ABs to Naps, in the DH role.

Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34

by howiestheman on Sep 28, 2009 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Napoli as DH?

Final answer? What we know of Napoli is that he is very streaky, and when he’s on his game he is a home-run hitting mofo, and when he’s not on his game he is 4 strikeouts per night waiting to happen.

As a way of working him into the lineup when he’s doing well, it makes perfect sense, but I don’t think he is anybody’s idea of a full-season DH.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Sep 28, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he gets into better and longer grooves the more he plays

that combined with the lack of strain coming from the catching position = power numbers for Naps.

plus, he’s stated that he like the DH role. that’s a plus, too.

Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34

by howiestheman on Sep 28, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can he DH fo rMAthis then?

Having Nap DH only means that Mathis is getting more AB’s ……PASS!

Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee

by Angel Aviator on Sep 29, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not necessarily

there’s always that .00000000001% chance Wilson becomes the starter…

Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34

by howiestheman on Oct 1, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with howiestheman--Pass on Holliday

Holliday could not hit in the AL. Sure he warmed up, but it wasn’t pretty. Vlad, as I point out in the game thread yesterday, is actually doing extremely well this year for having only about half of the PAs he normally gets. If he gets healthy—which it looks like he finally is—he’ll almost certainly reach the .300/25 HR mark with a shitton of RBI again.

If you’re going to give up Vlad, though, put Napoli in the full-time DH role when he’s not catching, and bring Bobby Wilson up (or sign some veteran catcher to a one-or-two-year contract) to split the duties with Mathis. I wouldn’t worry about Holliday.

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Sep 28, 2009 12:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

+1

by snowhor on Sep 28, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holliday

Holliday could not hit in the AL.

That’s not entirely correct.

He made an adjustment to his hands when he was still with the A’s. In the final month he was with Oakland, his line was .330/.398/.543, with 3 HR and 15 RBI. There was also the larger issue of having nobody in the lineup to protect him, which was what was expected with Chavez expected to return in 2009.

He didn’t simply blossom when he went to St Louis, but rather showed what he might have done in Oakland with a better lineup around him.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Sep 28, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

playing half of his games at the McAfee death pit didn't help either

I don’t think he will ever match his monster 07 season(especially not in the AL), but I think he is good for 25-30 HR with a crap load of doubles, RBI, and runs scored. Add to that decent defense and speed. You can’t say you wouldn’t want a guy like that wearing Angel Red.

The big issue will be his huge price tag.

NA 34

by blochead on Sep 28, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think the Angels will pursue Holliday

given the amount of money Boras will demand. The Angels are already going to spend a ton on Lackey, Figgins, and Abreu.

Hypothetically speaking: if they were to aquire Holliday, Johnny would move to RF and Abreu would DH just about everyday.

Defensively the last 3 years averaged according to UZR/150
Holliday: 9.2 09: 1.9
Abreu: -11.2 09: -5.9
Vladdy: -15.4 08: -15.1 (06-08)

Rivera: has played all 3 OF positions and missed all of 07 and had limited mobility in 08 after a long recovery so his numbers were probably affected by this. I used his stats from 06, 08, 09
LF: 8.4 09: 14.2

An outfield of Holliday, Hunter, Rivera would be much better defensively than what we have now.

Futhermore, It doesn’t make sense to re-sign two defensively atrocious RF’ers who are both in their mid-thirties.They are both primed to be designated hitters, Abreu has clearly run out of gas down the stretch and Vladdy is a shell of his former self. The Angels have a limited amount of money and lineups spots for these two and Reagins will have a tough decision to make regarding this team’s future.

NA 34

by blochead on Sep 28, 2009 1:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We won't sign any expensive non-Angel free agents this year

Arte hasn’t budged payroll since ‘04, Brandon Wood has nowhere to play, lots of people need raises, and we’ll take a serious run at Abreu and possibly both Lackey and Figgins, in addition to offering Vlad arb. I can see an incentives-rich gamble on someone like Rich Harden, but even he will probably be too expensive.

by mattwelch on Sep 28, 2009 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He has continually stated he would spend $ on the righ tplayer

Although I do not see that guy in this free agent class.

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Sep 28, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Boras Guys

I hit Holliday before I realized he belongs to Boras. As everybody knows, Boras Only Represents Athletes on Steroids. Screw that guy, the horse he rode in on, and take away his suite at Angel Stadium. I would rather lose with dignity that win by grovelling before Bor-ass.

by JeffJoiner on Sep 28, 2009 2:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Boras repped Adenhart

We are the Los Angeles Angels of the late 2000s

by Higz on Sep 28, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he negotiated a contract for Nick, though...

I thought Nick had been repped by his dad, since he was a minor when the Halos signed him to that “signing bonus + surgery” deal. I’m guessing here.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Sep 28, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

boras = weaver...

by figgifig on Sep 29, 2009 3:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

That’s why the Angels need to plan for a Weaver-less rotation in 2013, and why it would be wise to lock up Saunders the way the team did for Santana. Kazmir’s option is for 2012, and the team is prepping for Reckling, Walden, Ortiz and more to show they belong.

That is why it really isn’t necessary to go crazy spending money on Lackey. If he wants really green pastures, best of luck to him with his new team.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Sep 29, 2009 6:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is all academic

I think the Yankees will make a run on Jason Bay, and between the Red Sox and Yankees, whichever team doesn’t get Bay will make a push for Holliday. In fact, Holliday’s limited defensive abilities might make him a natural for LF in Fenway.

Add in the fact that the Cardinals (who might be making yet another WS appearance this year) could be enamored of the idea of Holliday protecting Pujols, and so they’ll be in the mix as well.

Factor in (A) a rugby scrum among several teams to sign Holliday with (B) Scott Boras calling the shots, and Arte won’t be within 100 miles of that circus.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Sep 28, 2009 2:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The Sox will resign Bay.

Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Sep 28, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

But Bay rejected a contract offer early and has made it clear he won’t be giving a hometown discount.

In the meantime, I can see the Yankees poaching Bay, just to screw with the Sox, as they did with Damon.

Remember, Damon’s deal expires this year, and, with Matsui’s ending as well, that takes two OF from the Yankee mix. Add in the fact nobody knows how Nady will respond to surgery, which places a third OF bat in doubt.

If the Sox do re-sign Bay, the Yankees might be ready to pay fat money for another HR-hitting player, and I suspect Holliday would see Yankee Stadium as the most stat-padding facility East of Coors.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Sep 28, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I wouldn't mind the Halos making a move to get Bay.

Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch

by red floyd on Sep 28, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This.

Although I’d expect the Yankees to go for Holliday over Bay. Holliday is actually much better defensively than Bay, who is Manny-like in his defensive ineptitude (and offensive prowess).

Johnny Damon is likely available. He seems much more like an Angels player. I mean, he’s FAST, and he plays in the OUTFIELD. He’s got some pop, gets on base, and will be cheap. And I’m sure Arte will be interested, and you guys will welcome him with open arms.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Oct 1, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damon

He still is fast, to be sure, but his defensive liabilities—not the least of which is an arm which wouldn’t be impressive on a little league field—don’t make him appreciably more attractive than Abreu, who throws well and runs well, even if he does get a little crossed up in the OF from time to time.

I am reminded of the t-shirts seen in Fenway after Damon signed with the Yankees, bearing his former Jerimiah Johnson visage: “Damon: Looks like Jesus, Acts like Judas, Throws like Mary”.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Oct 1, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditch Abreu, keep Vladdy.

Look, Vladdy is one of those rare baseball freaks of nature who can hit a baseball like no one’s business. Don’t overpay for him, but keep him nonetheless as your legacy DH.

He should stay with the Angels until he gets to 500 home runs or close to it.

Ditch Abreu and go after Luke Scott of the Orioles. He’s your left fielder with Rivera is right.

Have Brandon Wood fight it out with Aybar for shortstop.

Christhammer has spoken!!!

by Christhammer on Sep 28, 2009 2:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What's a Christ hammer?

by snowhor on Sep 28, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's another term for "here comes a batting order fanpost!"

(runs away)

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Sep 28, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus' tool? (innocent look) He was a carpenter, after all.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Sep 28, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

good one.

by 44FAN on Sep 28, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't there a song?...

…“If I had a hammer,
I’d hammer in the morning,
I’d hammer in the evening,
All over this land…”

I think there’s an AC/DC version…

by sothball on Sep 28, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maxwell's silver hammer

RIP #34

by linkbruin on Sep 28, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

bang bang

The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. - Gene Mauch

by Stirrups on Sep 28, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

short for end of season, about to clinch, band wagon fan.

by 44FAN on Sep 28, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

WE HAVE A WIINAH

Christhammer has been a member of this site for two weeks, and a fan for three.

by eyespy on Sep 28, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ouch

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Sep 29, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

vlad IS my man....

but a BAY BAY!!!

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

by vlad IS my man on Sep 28, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I appreciate Vlad's contributions with the Angels

But his SLG trend is alarming:

2004: .598
2005: .565
2006: .552
2007: .547
2008: .521
2009: .462
2010: ?

His age is working against him as he’ll be turning 35 next year. Abreu is better suited as a DH and could be re-signed to fill that role in 2010. The Angels will then need to sign a free agent corner OF or perhaps trade for one.

by Fan Since 1981 on Sep 29, 2009 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

well in all fairness

2009 has been a bad year for Vladimir. He was injured. And wasn’t healthy most of the year.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Oct 1, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

while i'd love to havce Holliday on the team...

he will be far too expensive for the halos… and Boras will cause Arte headache’s as we all know. While we all appreciate all that Vlad has contributed to the club over the last 5+ seasons he looks to be in decline. Bobby has been very steady all season, and as a fulltimish DH i think he’d stay fresh longer. By doing this the club also has the option of resigning Figgy and sending him the OF to make room for Wood in ‘10. I think Bobby’s influence on the young bats is the X factor here, he can still be a positive influence even if his own bat isnt as effective.

#34 R.I.P.
Heavenly Offense

by BigBangRobbDawgg on Sep 29, 2009 9:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

wow havce and headache's ?

grammar failure

#34 R.I.P.
Heavenly Offense

by BigBangRobbDawgg on Sep 29, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"fulltimish" was my favorite part of your passage.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Sep 30, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we're gonna sign an outfielder this offseason besides Bobby Abreu,

another option would be to see if we could be sneaky the way we were LAST offseason and pick up a guy who’ll get largely forgotten in the rush to sign Holliday, Vlad, Bay, etc. I think we might very well be able to get Hideki Matsui for cheap, and then concentrate our money elsewhere.

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Sep 30, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

except

he is also a DH at this point.

by dmhead on Sep 30, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we don't re-sign Vlad or Abreu

We don’t exactly need to sign another outfielder. We are still paying GMJ way too much to sit on the bench. We really don’t need to add new defensive positions. Never hurts to add pitching.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Oct 1, 2009 10:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs