Chone Figgins to....The White Sox?
by The Furious Bat of Howie47 on Sep 6, 2009 3:15 PM PDT
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PrintI really enjoy checking Ben Maller's rumors over on MSN Fox Sports (Ben Maller), he's generally got good information.
I absolutely have a disdain for the White Sox, ever since '05 and the way that the umps robbed that series from us. It would suck to see Figgy in a White Sox jersey....anyway, so Ben Maller posted THIS article from the Chicago Sun Times.
I wonder how high the Angels are willing to bid to keep Figgy as our lead-off man for the next 3-5 years? Is it possible we lose Figgy and Lackey this off-season?
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Am I the only one...
That is completely torn on the issue of letting figgins go? I can’t tell if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. It would allow Brandon Wood to get a good shot at being a contributor on the Major League Level, but that puts us in a whole for a legitimate lead off batter (Aybar?)
Not the only one
I’ve debating with myself for months on this.
You’re right, on one hand I really want Brandon Wood to play a full season and show what he can do.
And on the other hand it would be tough to give up one of the best leadoff hitters in the game and be left without one.
I’m leaning towards them letting him go. Money should be spent keeping Lackey around and Wood really deserves a shot.
I've been debating this for months...
…however, when you look at Figgins being 31 years old and quite possibly having his best statistical season of his career, you have to argue that he may be on his down side after this season.
Brandon Wood has had TOO many at-bats in the minors already. We need to get him up and see if he could sustain success in the majors.
It’s going to be difficult but I think we have to let him go…
The bat of Howie will rise again!
by The Furious Bat of Howie47 on Sep 6, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Sadly...
we must let figgy go but it does give Wood a shot a 3B. Figgy is 31 and playing well on his contract year (no surprise) although Figgy is probably built to be the ultimate leadoff man. It would give Aybar a perfect opportunity to show if he can bat in the leadoff spot.
There are no big FA’s would catch our eye except Carl Crawford along with a few front line pitchers (Harden and Marquis) and a few decent kids (Penny, Washburn, Wolf).
Just like most of you who say what has Vladdy or Lackey done for us in the playoffs last year or 07 or etc… Well Figgy also has played like shit come October, and im not saying Wood would be any better but its time to move on.
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 6, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't get so attached to age.
Look at Torii, he’s 33 now, and having his game for game his best offensive season ever. And his defense is still stellar.
Too many people act like 32- 35 is over the hill. Sure there are examples, but hey, there are examples of 25 year olds putting up less #‘s. (We just traded for one). And there are plenty of players that play great until their LATE 30’s, when the decline begins.
Also there was a post somewhere illustrating how speedsters age much better.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 6, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Torii's 34
If you want to know what over the hill is, I’m less than a month away from being 54.
Over the hill depends on the ball player. It’s not always when his skills deteriorate, but when he can no longer avoid injuries. The best example I can think of is Ken Griffey, Jr.
I think the age where most players lost their skills was skewed by the Steroid Age. Seems like it used to be mid-30s then changed to late-30s. I’m not sure I know any more.
by California Cajun on Sep 9, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting thought
Some players in the last decade might have accelerated their decline phase by juicing earlier in their careers. The sort of damage that steriods can cause to muscles and joints may have caused some players a rapid descent from the level at which they played, both because they couldn’t use the juice anymore because of testing and because the damage it caused became all too apparent.
Thus, we might not have an accuate idea of what a clean 34 year old player should look or act like.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 9, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Over the hill? Hell, if you can still take a slider deep, call Reagins!
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
Agree
I’d love to keep Figgins, but not at the expense of denying Wood playing time. If Bobby leaves and Figgy keeps on as the every day LF and not third baseman, then good. The problem is that even if that’s the idea when he says, you know Soth is going to trot him out at 3B every day anyway and leave Wood to rot on the bench or in Salt Lake.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
When he *stays* that is.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Does anybody remember 2006?
We let go a # of proven guys, some for good, some maybe not so. But the growing pains of the first year cost us. The A’s won the west. Wood is still nothing more than a hope, whereas Figgins is the real deal. He is a great part of what Angel baseball is all about.
Where is the fan loyalty? He is the last remaining position player on the roster from 2002.
Let’s not be so hasty to dump him in favor of a very unproven player. (Once again, look at what Wood has done so far at the major league level. Not to say he won’t improve, but this guy is no Evan Longoria or Ryan Zimmerman.)
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 6, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Wood will *never* be anything but a hope UNLESS YOU LET HIM PLAY!!!!!!!
Where’s the fan loyalty to our organizational depth?
I believe Matt Welch once said that Figgy profiles as the exact type of player that completely falls off the table after about age 32 or 33—and guess how old he is? That’s right! This organization will be in deep shit if it signs Figgy for 5 years and gets to watch him fail over the last 3 years while Wood’s development is destroyed and he NEVER gets to amount to anything.
The Wood-haters keep saying “he hasn’t proven anything! He hasn’t shown anything at the major league level!!!!” To which I respond, (a) how is he supposed to have proven anything with less than a season of at bats spread out over the course of three or four seasons, and (b) how is he EVER supposed to prove anything if he never plays???? Give him and the young guys a shot, just like they did with Frankie, with Erstad, with Salmon, with Anderson, and, finally, with Kendry!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Nobody hates Wood, but it would be pure foolishness to let a player the caliber of Chone Figgins go just to give the mnor leaguer a chance….that is NOT how you win seasons and that is NOT how dynasties are built.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize Kendry Morales was a proven major league star!!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
I wouldn't worry about Wood
Because like Kendry Morales, he will get a shot to play, just as Aybar as, et al.
The only difference is the vocal majority may have too much faith on Brandon as opposed to the others in his position.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
We didn’t have choice with Kendry. He was the fallback option, not the primary choice. Sounds to me like you’re saying we should choose to let Chone walk so Brandon Wood can play….big differnece.
You don't think the Angels will let Wood rot another year in the minors
Unless he falls completely flat on his face, Wood will get an opportunity to stick with the Angels in 2010.
He is 25 entering the 2010 season and it is time to see what he can do.
The front office will make that choice in the off-season, not us the fans.
Figgy may make so much sense for the Angels now – but ultimately it is going to be a matter of dollars and sense.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
That's great...
I didn’t realize Matt Welch was a proffesional scout. I dig his posts too, but he’s a fan, like the rest of us.
That wasn't really the point, thanks
The point was about the utter nonsense of insisting a guy is unproven and failing to realize he never will be proven unless given a chance, like so many other players…
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Haha...
Just poking a little fun.
But seriously though, I understand what you’re saying. There are so many different options right now. If just one of Vlad or Bobby depart, Figgins may be more sought after by us to play the OF. I believe he’s more valuable than Vlad at this point due to injury concerns, we have other power now (Juan and Morales, and the continuing development of Naps), and I don’t feel like Aybar is ready to step into the leadoff job with a .348OBP (However, he has increased it yearly by at least .029 each year. No reason to believe he won’t continue that). But Figgins is the most productive leadoff hitter in all of baseball this year (BA, OBP, BB, and runs combined).
I’d like to give Wood his shot at 3rd next year, and move Figgins to 2nd base. Resign Lackey, Bobby, Figgins, and Vlad. Trade Howie for a proven bullpen arm, in case Shields doesn’t come back the same.
We could trade Howie to the Giants, as they have an option for Freddy Sanchez for 2010 at $8M. Doubt they would pick that up if they could get their hands on Howie, plus he’d be going to NL where he couldn’t hurt us. Howie is due only what, half a Mil next year? They’d save money to go after other free agents. In return, I’d like Brian Wilson or Jeremy Affeldt. I’m sure Howie would be the starting point in that deal, along with throwing in a minor leaguer. Win-Win for both clubs.
I’d also like to go after free agent Joe Beimel of Colorado.
SP1: John Lackey
SP2: Jered Weaver
SP3: Scott Kazmir
SP4: Ervin Santana
SP5: Joe Saunders
BP1: Joe Beimel
BP2: Brian Wilson / Jeremy Affeldt
BP3: Darren Oliver
BP4: Scot Shields
BP5: Jose Arredondo (Hopefully returning to form)
Closer: Brian Fuentes
That’s a sick staff!
why go through all that trouble?
Sign Vlad, Abreu, Lackey, and if they want another starter Harden or Marquis (even tho Grabow would be huge pickup for our BP) bottomline HK can be more valuable to us than Figgy, Aybar can replace him…
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 6, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, yeah, sorry to snap
But yeah, that could be interesting—ideally they’d find a way to keep both Figgins and Wood in the line-up, but Soth seems to have a great dislike for Wood…perhaps legitimate but somewhat on the pathological side!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Unproven, yes...
But we could lose Kendricks production (Which has been limited), in favor of potentially solid offense out of Wood (.260BA, 15-17HR, 60RBI’s), especially considering what a Howie trade could bring back to our club in terms of pitching.
In 88 games, HK has 8 HR's, and 52 RBI. If 'given a chance' , that could be extrapolated to:
.285, 14 Hr, 94 RBI.
Which production do you think would help us win a championship?
Which set of stats is more ‘solid’.?
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 6, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
With that rationale...
I would say Howie without a doubt, I agree with you. But, dealing from a strength to shore up a weakness in our bullpen would be huge. How long can we expect Scot Shields and Darren Oliver to be solid? We’ve got to restock the ‘pen with above average contributors now, while we have the opportunity. Couple that with the fact Wood will be 25 next year and that he deserves his chance, and it’s an idea worth exploring.
With the offense we’d have with Figgins, Bobby, Vlad, Hunter, Morales, Rivera, Naps, Aybar, and Wood; we could easily stand to lose Howie’s production while making pitching our strength again.
That line-up and pitching staff doesn’t have a weakness. Where you might find one is Brandon Wood, but there’s potential there to be excited about.
You don't trade good young infielders for relief pitchers
Unless your name is Tommy Lasorda, in which case you are a jackass.
I must be a jackass...
Because our bullpen is our glaring weakness and will continue to be next year if we don’t do something about it.
Instead of Howie, maybe you trade Wood. But I think Howie holds more trade value at this point. You’re dealing from strength to shore up weaknesses. That’s exactly what we did in the Kazmir deal. We need to do it again.
Nah, Lasorda's the jackass
You’re just wrong (IMO, etc.).
Fuentes is good enough for government work, Jepsen/Bulger have been great for the last couple of months, Arredondo has lights-out stuff that he’ll likely harness again, Oliver has been just fine, and before you know it, that’s a pretty good bullpen. Rich Thompson may well be the next Bulger (only much younger), and it’s possible that Shields will come back to contribute.
But the point still holds — there is a limited history of trading good position players for relievers, and almost all of it is u-g-l-y.
Howie is useful trade bait
but only for a SP. If we let Lackey walk, resign Figgins and Abreu, we could move Figgy to 2B and still have our leadoff hitter. And Wood would get his shot at 3B.
Kendrick, as much as I like him, should be able to bring us a decent SP in a trade package, thus limiting the damage by letting Lackey walk.
I suppose a lot will depend on how the FA market moves this offseason. Will Bobby re-up for the same cheap price? Doubtful … We might need to re-sign Desmond to play LF if Bobby goes somewhere else as well.
I definitely see a future without John Lackey though.
Don't call me Desmond!
by highlandhalo on Sep 8, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Alexi Casilla for J.C. Romero, anyone?
Major reason I also don’t like such trades…not saying we should’ve kept Casilla, just that we probably could have done something a whole lot less lopsided with him!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
It seems that with a lot of relievers, there can be quite a flux year to year.
I think a lot of us would consider this a ‘down’ year for HK, what with his rough first half, demotion etc. But when I did the extrapolation, it really showed me how much talent he has.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
In fairness, I have advocated we trade Figgins for years and years
And have basically always been wrong. But as I said below, I never said Figgins is quick-to-decline type.
Never said that, and never understood the logic behind whoever did
The classic type that doesn’t age well is the slow-footed, one dimensional, no-defense slugger. Pretty much the opposite of Chone Figgins.
Ah, I must have misread you
Or whoever it was said it…sorry about that.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Relax, Wood isn't going anywhere. S-Rod is the one who is gone.
1. Let us ask any G.M. or manager for a championship caliber team, ‘Who would you rather have on your roster next season?’. What do you think their answer would be?
2. As Matt Welch already has pointed out, he said nothing of the kind.
3. It is quite a joke for you to question the teams loyalty to organizational depth. Figgins just happens to be #1 on the depth chart! Or should we jettison them under a premise that ’ minor league players deserve to play regardless of who is starting’.
4. There is a very good reason why Figgins will get paid well. BECAUSE HE IS AN EXCELLENT LEADOFF HITTER. Wood probably won’t be hitting leadoff. Is Wood as good defensively? (anyone?)
5. Ultimately it is not even a either/or situation.
6. give him a shot because he might be as good as Figgins?
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 6, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, the jab about loyalty to organization depth was a response
To your comment about “where’s the fan loyalty?”
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
why 3B?
WWhy cant we resign him and move him to left? Id rather keep Figgy then Aberu who will be 36. Move Juan to Right field? Makes sense.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Sep 6, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you think moving him to left would make our defense stronger?
It seems fairly obvious that Abreu has been a key to our offense finally kicking some ass. Losing him might not be such a good idea either.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 6, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
age
Im not into us getting older with a right fielder who is 36. We got the most out of Aberu, now move on.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Sep 7, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd prefer Figgins over Abreu...
assuming the price is right. If we’re going to use a light hitting outfielder I’d prefer the younger one.
That said I’d let them both walk if we could turn around and grab another power hitting outfielder. Not sure who’s gonna be available though.
Available power hitting outfielder type free agents
Not in any particular order:
Unrestricted Free Agents:
1. Jason Bay
2. Matt Holliday
3. Bobby Abreu
4. Vladamir Guerrero
5. Xavier Nady
Potential Free Agents:
1. Jermaine Dye ($12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout)
2. Magglio Ordonez ($18MM club/vesting option with a $3MM buyout)
Hideki Matsui as well
And Johnny Damon, if you want to count 300-foot pop flies as home runs.
Yanks and White Sox will have some appetite for DHs this offseason.
Yeah...
That new Yankee stadium is ridiculous.
Wrap your mind around this...
How many homeruns would K-Mo have this year playing half the games at Yankee stadium. My guess is 40 on September 7th.
Yeah this is easy....
1) Let Abreu, Figgns, Guerrero leaving freeing up 27 Million
2) Sign Jason Bay or Matt Holliday to play LF
3) Put Napoli at DH
4) Win World Series next year too.
Bay and Holliday?
Bay’s does have some pop in his bat but his average is shit. (Napoli can put up the same numbers as him if he played Catcher full time) and I would sign Holliday over Abreu and let Vladdy continue to play as a DH.
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 7, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Holliday
Holliday will resign with Cardinals. The only name I like is Bay, but is Bay really good because of Fenway?
Again, lets get younger, I am not into signing players over 34/35. Reminds me of our team of the 80’s.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Sep 7, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
That was the original plan
The problem is that LF and RF aren’t played the same way, and his career is built upon playing RF. He was unnecessarily exciting playing LF in early games, then took over RF when Vlad was taken out of the OF alignment with his injury.
The team could try him in LF again in 2010, but it isn’t the best idea to take a defensively-challenged RF and move him out of position.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 8, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Angels have already handed the 3B job to Wood in 2010
That’s why I think Figgy is gone. Kendrick will play 2B, Aybar will play SS. Figgy hasn’t been used in the outfield so there is no intention of putting him there. There’s no place for him in the Angels plans. Not what I want, necessarily, but what I think is going to happen.
Lackey has to be the priority because they need a starting pitcher the most. Then Abreu or else GMJ becomes a regular again. Then Oliver because the bullpen’s shaky. Then Vlad to get the Angel chapeau in the HOF that Ranger Ryan robbed from us.
by California Cajun on Sep 9, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
im torn too...
its a tough decision….
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Sep 6, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
This guy has already scored 102 runs
Leads the team with 158 hits. Plays a Gold-Glove caliber third base. I say keep him over Lackey, if the choice had to be made, because Desmond, as he gets older, could always move to another position. And I don’t see Lackey as a Smoltz-type HOF pitcher.
Don't call me Desmond!
i think its safe to say this has been a career-year for figs...
and when taking into consideration his entire career and his age, my bet is that if he drops off next year…
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Sep 6, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
What the hell kind of question is that?
One of the best players in the American League, that’s all.
Don't call me Desmond!
Think he was just saying that
on account of the poll question.
by dulciusEXasperis on Sep 6, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
geez Highlander
you generally hav e a higher sense of sarcasm
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Ken Rosenthal at FoxSports has him going to the Yankees or the White Sox
http://msn.foxsports.com/video?vid=3d80ef6a-bd71-4f00-af9f-81d0f2d1cd21
Hey la, hey, Halo...
I can see that
DeRosa replacement?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Give him a good offer. If the Sox or Yanks decide to overpay, screw it.
The beauty of the game is that it’s bigger than one player.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
If he re-signs, he'll play left field
After winning a Gold Glove at 3B. That’s my prediction, anyway.
so we dont resign Abreu?
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Sep 6, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Abreu can DH and let Vlad walk.
Figgy can play LF, when Abreu DH’s and Figgy can play RF if Juan Rivera ever DH’s
Who's hating Vlad?
I love Vlad. And I’m perfectly willing to offer him arbitration, and live with what he decides to do (i.e., sign a multi-year deal with the White Sox).
So?
you would let the guy who has done so much for the past 4 years (not counting this one) go in favor of the guy who stepped up for what 2-3 months? Wow…
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 6, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
sentiments dont win championships
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Sep 6, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont think the dude can get it done is what im saying.
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 6, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Figgins has been a valuable player for several years now
As indicated by his multiple showings in the MVP vote. He’s also younger, healthier, and possessing great defensive talent and (important!) flexibility.
Vlad’s an expensive, injury-prone DH.
Since Abreu is essentially a DH, too, we figure to need just one next year, given both the cost and the availability of other players on the team (especially Napoli) to DH.
Well...
if your talking about which one to sign to DH is clear Vladdy can put up way better numbers than Abreu. I say lets see what they do in the playoffs first and then judge.
Figgy is the perfect angel player but I dont see how everything can work out involving Lackey, Wood, and other FA’s. Maybe we lose Lackey, sign Figgy, and trade Wood for a Pitcher to replace Lackey. Its a tough decision.
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 7, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Not "clear" at all
Because we don’t know whether Vlad will ever stay healthy again. We do know that Abreu has basically never not been healthy, and he’s at least in better condition for playing the outfield and running the bases.
What’s more, Scioscia totally values maximum defensive flexibility. We don’t, generally, have full-time DHs. Better to have one who can still play the field, if allegedly.
As usual... it's not that simple
“big” might mean 3/25 to some and 5/70 for others.
Tell you what, though, I don’t think people realize how valuable Chone Figgins is. He’s arguably been one of the top 20 most valuable players in the AL this season and his track record isn’t too shabby. The Angels have done a good job letting marginal players go… Kennedy, Eckstein, Anderson…. and questionable ones (Glaus)… but letting Figgins go will almost certainly mean a considerable downgrade in the short term…. even if Brandon Wood stepped in and had a solid year. They probably can live with that, but what if Brandon wood does nothing, then you are taking a 4-5 game hit.
It depends on what happens with other players, too. The Angels have a lot of questions this offseason with so many free agents. Figgins is a heck of a player, though, and he’ll be missed if he doesn’t come back.
The biggest question if Figgins leave is who is our leadoff but
even if he stays and continues to bat leadoff, how long can he remain there? He leads the league this year in caught stealing attempts…he certainly isnt going to get any faster.
I think it might be a good idea to start grooming Aybar as leadoff and maybe say goodbye to figs….
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Sep 6, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions
The problem is Erick gets caught on the basepaths alot too.
#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!
EYEBAR...
stole a gaggle of bases in the minors though…the talent is there…hes still learning.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Sep 7, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Figgins
Is a top of the lineup ignitor who gets on-base, steals bases and pumps up the offense.
The problem with resigning him is the question of whether not he is he can stay healthy.
He doesn’t hit the ball as hard if nagging injuries bother him and is not as valuable as a slap-hitter as opposed to someone who can take walks, but also hit doubles and triples, along with stealing bases.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
Outfield
Do we really think Figgy would make a decent outfielder? When a guy is that good at third it seems like an awful waste to just stick him in left and hope he’s at least passable. I can see him at 2nd to make room for Wood, but what to do with Howie? Would they dare trade yet another young second baseman?
If Kenny Williams has a hard on for him and wants to give him a Mattews Jr. contract, then we’ll take the draft picks. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t make it one of our top priorities to resign him. I just don’t see another option for lead off out there, inside or outside our organization. It seems almost backwards to lock up veterans and trade away young talent, but in this case it almost makes sense. Chone’s the shit.
Agreed
My solution is above, but I’ll post a portion of it again:
“We could trade Howie to the Giants, as they have an option for Freddy Sanchez for 2010 at $8M. Doubt they would pick that up if they could get their hands on Howie, plus he’d be going to NL where he couldn’t hurt us. Howie is due only what, half a Mil next year? They’d save money to go after other free agents. In return, I’d like Brian Wilson or Jeremy Affeldt. I’m sure Howie would be the starting point in that deal, along with throwing in a minor leaguer. Win-Win for both clubs.”
Plus, GMJ’s no trade clause is almost obsolete beginning this offseason, as he has to give the Angels four teams he won’t go to. Other than the four clubs he gives, he’s trade bait. But… I dig having him as a 4th-5th OF. Albeit he’s expensive for that slot, you’re likey not going to find another guy as talented in that position.
I am confident that Figgy will play the corner OF at least as good as Rivera, Abreu, & GMJ
He was pretty decent as a center fielder, despite not having any real great instincts for routes to the ball. He’s got a great arm, great speed, and the guys we got now are old, big, and slow.
Also — and this is important! — Brandon Wood is ready for the Major Leagues, is cheap, and plays third base.
And shortstop
No guarantees Erick Aybar stays healthy, though knock on wood. Not Wood, wood.
Don't call me Desmond!
Not only do you have to worry about the White Sox
But also the Yankees. They are losing Johnny Damon so they will also need a lead off batter and they can just plug him in left field. So we will be playing against the Sox and the Yankees. Not looking good.
First we had a Salmon and now we have a Trout, let's see the same results.
by angelskid2210 on Sep 6, 2009 6:50 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
At least.....
we have a 15 day period that we can try to get something done, before the yanks or white sox enter the picture.
Yankees
I can see him going to NY as Maller mentioned NY is interested. They have always liked Figgins, damon is getting old and the Yanks would put Figgy in Left Field
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Sep 6, 2009 10:04 PM PDT reply actions
Depth Depth Depth
Losing Figgins hurts our depth for next season at key locations. 3B, SS, 2B and leadoff.
I watch most of my games on MLB.TV, and to avoid the monotony of Rex and Phys, I usually watch the other teams broadcast at least once in a series. One thing that EVERY team talks about is how good a player Figgins is. Most of them also comment on what a great fielding left side of the infield we have.
So how good a fielder is Wood anyway? What if he flops, then what? What if Aybar goes down? Who’s leading off?
Who cares how much he gets paid anyway? Arte is RICH RICH RICH!!. He’s got lots of money. Some might say ; ‘it will hurt our ability to get another player’. Fact: 50 Million to GMJ. Fact: He doesn’t work out Fact: Next offseason 90 Mill to Torii. Fact: same postion.
The obvious difference is Figgins is a proven player, on THIS team.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 6, 2009 10:15 PM PDT reply actions
trading s rod
Not sure if we can afford to lose Sean Rodriguez and Chone Figgins. If we do not plan on resigning Figgins, should of kept Sean. Other question is who is our second baseman of the future? Howie? or Maicer?
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Sep 7, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions
"Who cares how much he gets paid anyway?"
Heard that argument when G.A. got his extension, and when GMJ got his big contract. Arte spends the same money on salaries every year ($115 million when adjusted for inflation, give or take). If the pie is the same size every year — and it is — then we have a vested interest in how it’s divvied up.
Also, it’s fun!
our entire offseason really hinges on Figgins
signing (or not signing) him is the first piece in many dominoes to fall. If we resign him, it probably spells the end of Vlad and possible Abreu in Anaheim. If we don’t, Abreu is definitely back, and maybe Vlad.
Either way, I see Figgins shifting to the OF next year, and hopefully it’s for us. My ideal Opening Day lineup next year -
Figgins RF
Abreu DH
Morales 1B
Hunter CF
Rivera LF
Napoli C
Kendrick 2B
Wood 3B
Aybar SS
balanced with speed and power, all the way through.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
Figgins has the gun to play RF
but can’t we leave this hypothetical shit until the offseason. FFS, we’ve still got a division to win if not more.
Don't call me Desmond!
With apologies to the Beatles
" All we are saying , is give Wood a chance "
When Wood gets to the majors he goes back to the back of the bench
Then he starts on a Sunday and he whiffs maybe several times
or he rakes but no matter ‘cause he’s back down to Salt Lake again
(DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN)
Scioscia hates him!
(DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN)
Scioscia hates him!
etc.
I wanna keep Figgy
but if signing him means not getting abreu, or vlad for that matter, then i say let him walk. i see figgy being highly overpaid in the offseason. We can slide Wood in at 3rd and if he struggles, izzy is always there to pick up the slack.
Recommended
For your last line. Everyone that is concerned with Wood falling on his face, Jesus, we have Izzy.
Great point. I almost completely forgot about him for a second.
This situation reminds me of when we let Bengie go
Apparently, Stoneman was completely confident that Mathis could step right in and fill Bengie’s shoes without missing a beat. At the time I was strenuously opposed to this move, and in fact this was more or less the subject of my first post on this site. I thought we should have kept Bengie for at least one more year, to give Mathis some guidance and to provide for coverage in case Mathis didn’t pan out. As you will recall, Mathis didn’t pan out that first year, and he has yet to meet expectations.
The situation after this season will be similar in many ways: a proven starter at the end of his contract who was approaching his expected age-related downward slide, and a promising but as yet unproven prospect waiting in the wings. Unfortunately, this time we don’t really have the luxury of bringing the proven starter back for one year; Figgy has earned a big payday, and I can’t imagine he’d be happy signing for less than five years. He would almost certainly be vastly overpaid for the fourth and fifth years.
Also, Mathis had only five games at the ML level when he was given the starting position, and thus we had no real indication of his readiness. Brandon Wood has so far had 79 games over three seasons in the bigs, and while with only 209 AB he certainly has not had a sufficient opportunity to prove himself, he has not shown much ability to hit ML pitching so far, and so it seems reasonable to expect that he will need 500 AB or so before he begins to get his bearings. Moreover, while he will almost certainly be something of an improvement over Figgy defensively, still no one expects Wood to be anything like a replacement for Figgy in terms of leadoff ability. In fact, the consensus here seems to be that there is no one on the team who can be expected to be as effective a leadoff hitter as Figgy. The skill set Figgy provides is central to the Angels’ Pythagoras-thwarting style of play.
Thus, there is definite risk in both re-signing Figgy and letting him go. If we sign him, we will tie up a lot of money, block a potentially great prospect, and possibly end up with another GMJ scenario down the road. If we don’t, we will have a big hole in the lineup to fill even if Wood pans out, and if he doesn’t we may well fail to contend. Either way, we’re likely to get off to a slow start. Of course, this is a pretty static analysis, and I’m no Sabermetrician, but this is how I see the basic outcomes.
If I were the Ninja, I would make a serious attempt to re-sign Figgy if he were willing to sign for three years plus a team option year, or for longer if the fourth and fifth years had sufficient reasonable performance incentives to minimize the risk of his contract becoming an albatross. I feel his performance and centrality to the offense to be worth the investment. Additionally, if we did re-sign him we would have to commit to starting Wood back at shortstop in order to give him his chance. We have to break up that logjam somehow, even if it means trading Aybar or Izzy.
Have you seen Figgins at third base this year?
Wood will not almost certainly be something of an improvement over Figgy defensively…
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
Yeah, I agree that I malfunctioned there
My thought was that Wood will be just fine defensively, but I honestly don’t know how that thought led to those words!
Wood's cheaper
I don’t think the Angels will get into a bidding war for Figgins if others want his services because they have a third baseman in Wood and a back-up in Izturis.
There is a hole in the rotation so if anyone gets the biggest offer among the free agents it will be Lackey. Without him you have Weaver, Saunders, Santana, Kazmir, and either Palmer, Moseley, or one of the kids.
I think they will try to bring back Abreu but Vlad will have to take a drastic pay cut. However, if push comes to shove, they still have an outfield of Hunter, Rivera, and GMJ with Napoli becoming the full time DH.
This is something I’ve thought all season long. It won’t surprise me if none of the free agents are back. But I think the priority is first Lackey, then Abreu in order of holes that would be created if they don’t return.
by California Cajun on Sep 7, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Ever hear of a cat named Mike Napoli?
He’s been hitting better than Bengie ever did, from 2006 onward.
Exactly
The Angels seem to be a team that not only has a Plan, but a Backup Plan, too. It may not always be perfect (or to the fans satisfaction), but they definitely think things through.
I am sure that when Bengie left, they realized they had TWO catchers waiting in the wings.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Sep 7, 2009 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn't we also have Jose Molina
For at least a season before we traded him?
not in 2006 he didn't. Would a loved me some Bengie that season.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh, actually
Try .316 with 12 HR through June-ish. He slowed way down after the ASB, but I guarantee you the Halos would have been a s-load further back in the division at seasons end if not for Naps.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
You forget that he only played half the time. Who played the other half?
Jose Molina 78 games, Mathis 23 games . Scary
Napoli: hit .228. Lots of power. Defense very suspect. a rookie.
Bengie: GG caliber D, hit .284, 19 jacks. How much better would he have been in the familiar surroundings of Anaheim in the thick of a pennant race? Also one of the clutchest hitters in the league.
As for Naps being better than Jose Molina and Jeff Mathis, I agree with that.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
this is 2006 I'm discussing. Not 2008 and 2009
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Right
And Naps definitely fell apart after that initial hot streak in ‘06. But I’m saying he shouldn’t be written off as being completely useless that year.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Certainly not completely useless. Just inexperienced. Look how much better he is now.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh definitely
He is, in fact, on a boat! :-D
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
After being called up, Napoli played 99 of 134 games, or 74%
And posted an OPS+ of 110, compared to Bengie’s 100 (Bengie has never had a season higher than 108). His 51 walks were 24 more than Bengie’s career high, giving him an OBP of .360 (Bengie’s career high is .336). And Napoli’s defense was hardly “very suspect”; he was widely praised for it at the time, and I suspect it was better then than it is now.
I don’t know of a single person who knows the catching position well who would describe Bengie Molina’s 2005-era defense, let alone 2006 and beyond, as “Gold Glove caliber.” He is incredibly slow behind the plate, tried to backhand way too many balls in the dirt, and Angels pitchers gave up a ton of wild pitches with him back there.
How much better would Bengie have been in Anaheim in a thick of a pennant race? Well, for one, it wasn’t much of a pennant race — the team was never close than 3 games behind after Aug. 3, and started September 8.5 back. Secondly, Bengie did hit in Anaheim during three pennant races, going .281/.318/.421 (OPS+ 84) in 2002, .276/.313/.404 (88) in ‘04, and .295/.336/.446 (108) in ’05. I don’t see any reason there to believe he would have magically improved over his .284/.319/.467 he had in Toronto.
And, in any case, as good as Bengie hit that year, Napoli has been a better hitter every year since he arrived in the big leagues.
Well with Jose's and Mathis's games that makes a total of 123%.
Bengie never had to share half the time with his brother. And he did win two GG’s. I am no catching expert, but I don’t see how Napoli was magically better in 06 than he is now. If what you say is true, that would mean that long before his peak/decline, he is already declining. I just don’t see how that could be. As it is NOBODY is ever talking about Napoli for a GG.
The whole point though is that WITH NAPOLI we didn’t make the PS. Who knows what would have happened had we still had Bengie. (remember he signed a 1 year contract in Toronto). Do we make it? Who knows. We could have kept Bengie, then brought along Napoli as the ‘next of kin’. Instead we booted Bengie, and in my view payed for it.
OPS= doesn’t impress me. Eckstein’s OPS= in 2006 81. Translation; WS MVP. and another ring.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Lots of fever in your funkhouse
1) Well with Jose’s and Mathis’s games that makes a total of 123%.
Mathis was given the starting job, and he bombed. Napoli was called up to replace him, split time with Jose at the very beginning, but quickly won the regular job. Complaining that Napoli only caught half the time, and somehow counting that against him, is bizarre.
2) And he did win two GG’s.
Correct. Also, Rafael Palmeiro won a GG at 1B at age 34 when he played just 28 games there. Gold Gloves are interesting, but not decisive. No way in hell was Bengie one of the best defensive catchers in baseball in 2006 and after.
3) I am no catching expert, but I don’t see how Napoli was magically better in 06 than he is now. If what you say is true, that would mean that long before his peak/decline, he is already declining. I just don’t see how that could be. As it is NOBODY is ever talking about Napoli for a GG.
Let’s recall how we got to this point:
- You said Napoli’s defense was “very suspect” in 2006.
- I replied that Napoli’s defense, in fact, was routinely “praised” in 2006.
There is no logical inference there that I or anyone believe that Napoli was a Gold Glover then. As for his supposed defensive decline since then, there’s a reason I said “I suspect” rather than “it is.” That said, Scioscia has said in recent interviews that he was bothered by Napoli’s defensive backsliding.
4) The whole point though is that WITH NAPOLI we didn’t make the PS.
Yeah, our strategy of letting free agents walk in their early 30s, and developing cheaper/younger in-house talent has been so disastrous that we’ve MISSED THE PLAYOFFS ONE TIME IN FIVE YEARS. While keeping payroll flat. Look, I realize this is awful to contemplate, but sometimes you’ve gotta see what the young players can do. What we saw in 2006 — arguably paying for it with a 2nd place finish — was that Jeff Mathis, despite years of hype, was definitively not a starting big league catcher. But — even though no one predicted it — we also learned that Mike Napoli could hit better than most big-league catchers who have ever strapped on shinguards. These were both valuable things to know.
5) OPS= doesn’t impress me.
Congratulations. I look forward to the Padres winning the World Series.
Gotta have more Funk!
1. was a joke. he he
2. Regardless of what you and others might think about a flawed system, a GG is a GG. To bring up one example of a lameness doesn’t discount the many deserving. For Bengie to have won two says something. Generally when we think of good defense a la Torii, we think of ‘GG caliber’.
3. So he has worse defense now. How good could it have been then?
4. I agree, we might have missed the playoffs in 06 because we prematurely ejected Bengie, and then relied on young unproven players who were not up to the task that season.
5. You use OPS like it is the be all end all. I just don’t buy that. It can be usefull of course, as any stat. But the way that you presented it seemed to be more of a ‘see this is how it is’ kind of usage. I may have interpreted that incorrectly.
6. The Padres?
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 8, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Wrong
A Gold Glove is a joke. It is an arbitrary statement that one player was “the best” at his position, which can be shown time and again to be little more than a beauty contest, not an evaluation of talent.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 9, 2009 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I have written this before.
While it is true that the best fielder at his position does not necessarily win the beauty contest that is the GG, it is also true that bad fielders are never in the running.
We don't have a Bullpen. We have a Cowpen. Before we get to call it a Bullpen these guys gotta grow a pair.
So Torii's 8 Gold Gloves are a joke?
Whatever. Within any system it is usually easy to pick out a few obvious ‘mistakes’. It doesn’t mean that every player who ever got a GG didn’t deserve it. Geez, why are you so down on Bengie having gotten 2?. It’s not like he was the starting catcher on the Yanks. I highly doubt he won them because of his overwhelming media popularity.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 9, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
No but Jeter's sure as shit are
Palmeiro’s was as well.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Sep 9, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much my point as well
No but Jeter’s sure as shit are
Palmeiro’s was as well.
One can find examples of well-deserved wins of the award. There are also plenty of head-scratchers. Ultimately, the lack of consistency robs the award of its iron-clad sense of being an award of excellence.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 9, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
How about Ozzie Smith, Pudge, Maddux, Hunter, Roberto Clemente, Willie Mays, Omar Vizquel etc. etc.
Your argument is based on a few people over YEARS of awards, that you personally don’t think deserved to win. I don’t know about Jeter, but I bet there are a lot of people that think he deserved to win.
Palmeiro’s has already been mentioned, can’t you think of another 40 or 50 players that DIDN’t deserve the award. Because I can easily come up with 40 or 50 who DID.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 9, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Not the point
But thanks for skirting it.
The award isn’t based upon any objective metrics, but on the subjective evaluation from the coaches and managers of the teams. Some of those people see players on a single team only 3-6 times per season, unless they add to their evaluation what they see on sports wrapup shows.
Thus, there is no means of evaluating one 2B against another by using zone ratings or fielding percentages, but rather who looks good.
In the Academy Awards, it was known years ago that many of those who receive ballots give those ballots to their wives to fill out. It is considered the reason why “Annie Hall” won Best Picture, when comedies never win—the makers of the film got it on Z Channel in West Los Angeles (a sort of proto-HBO) and the wives of the executives and creative folks saw it and voted for it.
No metrics, just subjective impressions—not a great way to judge the pros and cons of which man is the best. Surely, those who won were good at their job, but to say he was the best that year—it is easy to find strong arguments that say otherwise.
Here is a great one to start with: Why don’t you explain to me how Bret Boone was judged to be a superior 2B to Adam Kennedy in 2004?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 10, 2009 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions
If I used OPS like it was the end all be all...
… what were all those batting averages, on base percentages, and slugging percentages doing in that post? And I don’t care how much you love Bengie Molina, he does not get on base more, nor hit with more power, than Mike Napoli. Since those are the two primary offensive skills, your distaste for OPS is kind of irrelevant here.
Oh, the Padres are the team that employ your beloved David Eckstein.
Molina
Was pretty good defensively, till people figured he got fat off winning the WS, wanting too much money, et al.
Winning two Gold Gloves for a guy like Molina means something – it wasn’t like he was a superstar catcher or anything.
As a hitter, I’m not going to say he was useless – sure he can’t outrun a snail and he never has walked a lot to maintain a decent on-base percentage.
He has always been a pretty good contact hitter with with some pop in his bat.
Naps is probably a so-so to average catcher but as a hitter, he has tons of power and the ability to take a walk.
Making the call to get rid of Molina was probably the wise one, though it was Jeff Mathis who was expected to be the No. 1 guy several years ago.
Naps just kept coming and coming and his offensive production in the minors couldn’t be ignored.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
What, you got a problem with Eckstein too?
I am a fan, and I will always be thankfull for the winning players and winning teams that made 1986 a thing of the past. Hopefully 4 years into Napoli’s career, he can help make that happen again.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 9, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't care where Figgins plays...
He is our leadoff man. Bring him back.
It was a little more than that
Apparently, Stoneman was completely confident that Mathis could step right in and fill Bengie’s shoes without missing a beat. At the time I was strenuously opposed to this move, and in fact this was more or less the subject of my first post on this site. I thought we should have kept Bengie for at least one more year, to give Mathis some guidance and to provide for coverage in case Mathis didn’t pan out. As you will recall, Mathis didn’t pan out that first year, and he has yet to meet expectations.
Bengie had a different opinion from the rest of the world as to what his value was. He asked for the moon from the Angels, who politely said “no thanks” (which led to Bengie’s tirade about how they treated him like trash, until his agent said that the team had, in fact, acted very professionally). Then he negotiated with the Mets and Orioles, overplayed his hand, and would up taking sloppy seconds with a one-year-plus-option deal with the Blue Jays (who didn’t even pick up his option).
I think Stoneman might have been comfortable keeping Bengie, but not at the contract levels he was expecting when he hit free agency. In the final analysis, NO team was.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 8, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
What part don't you recall?
His tirade about the Angels “treating [him] like trash” when they cut ties with him?
His agent (Alan Nero) subtly telling the world that wasn’t what happened?
The way Molina and Nero overplayed their hand with the Orioles and Mets, causing the Mets to sign LoDuca and the Orioles to sign Hernandez?
How the Blue Jays signed him late in the free agent period to a one-plus-option, and didn’t pick up the option the next year?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Sep 9, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember that, too.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Sep 9, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's my take...
I think the Angels should attempt to re-sign Figgins, prioritized ahead of Vlad and Abreu, to play LF. If Figgins signs elsewhere, attempt to re-sign Abreu, and (don’t kill me for saying this…) look into trading for Juan Pierre. Pierre is kind of expensive ($18.5M over the next 2 years), but provides good defense in left, weak-armed, but good defense. Has proven to he can hit lead-off, and might come cheaply in a deal. The Angels would have to take on all of his salary as the Dodgers are notoriously cheap, but that would mean they wouldn’t have to give very much to get him. The $18M would probably be cheaper than re-signing Figgins for 2 years (Figgins is making almost $6M this year and should see a good raise via free agency).
The line up would look something like this:
C – Nap/Mathis
1B – Morales
2B – Izturis/Kendrick
SS – Aybar
3B – Wood
LF – Pierre
CF – Hunter
RF – Rivera
DH – Abreu/Napoli
If Wood tanks after getting his shot, I’m pretty confident the Angels organization has the means to find a replacement, but at least give him a chance to sink or swim.
There’s a lot of “if’s” heading into this off-season…should be very interesting.
Juan Pierre?
I would just as soon have GMJ get playing time before I would trade for Juan Pierre.
Pierre and infield
I really like Juan Pierre, he has played well, especially when Manny was suspended.
But, where are we going next year with our infield? Who will be at second?
Is our future Ayber and Maicer? Did we kick Howie to the curb?
In one year we could have SRod, Figgy and Howie all gone, if the Angels movie Howie as some of you want for a reliever.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Sep 7, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
I didn’t discuss that option at all. I would have Howie start at 2B with Maicer as a utility player in case either Howie or Wood struggled.
I know, but...
Look around. If Figgins leaves, there aren’t too many replacement leadoff type guys available via free agency or trade.
And I’m not ready to jump on the Aybar bandwagon just yet.
Carl Crawford...
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 7, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
yup.
I wasnt saying he was a free agent this year but he could very easily replace Figgy if he leaves.
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Sep 7, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Lose Figgins for Pierre? Now that is Funny! You are a funny guy.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
That is one of my biggest points. Anyone we get will be a downgrade from Figgins.
by Big Bad, 'Vlad'! on Sep 7, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's hope it won't be someone nearly as shitty as Pierre.
by snowhor on Sep 7, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're nuts.
I’d rather have Matthews bat lead off than Pierre. And I really don’t want Matthews to lead off. In fact, even Aybar would be a better option than Pierre (they have almost the same number of walks). Wow, we really need to resign Figgy!
Matthews sucks
I’d rather have Juan Pierre – biggest complaint about him is he offers no power and no ability to get on-base beside hitting the ball.
Guy is close to a .300 hitter – he’s doing just fine, even if he is hitting an empty .300.
If he gets 500 at-bats, he gets 200 hits, steals bases and scores runs.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
can't steal first.
Add in the contract and that would be the dumbest move the team could make.
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