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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

I'd have more to say, but I'm not here to talk about the past. Also, apparently the grass is green and the sky is blue.

over 2 years ago Angels02bkfm_400_tiny neochoa 131 comments 0 recs  | 

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What about an apology to the Cardinals fans?

Is he only bothering to make this tiny apology now because he his preparing to receive a huge salary again from baseball as a coach?

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Jan 11, 2010 12:34 PM PST reply actions  

Why should he apologize to the fans?

   The fans like home runs and power. The fans want these guys to put on a show.

   If anything he did them a favor.

   The only people these guys should be apologizing to are the other players who DIDN’T use steroids. Those guys lost out on contracts, or money because their numbers weren’t as good.

by Nashdiesel on Jan 11, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe an apology to all those fans that returned his home run balls

when they could have sold them for thousands on e-bay. Baseball’s feel good story that year was all about fans who acted so unselfishly but now it turns out they were just rewarding a big fat cheat.

"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 11, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

how about "big fat liar" then?

It took him a whole decade of tap dancing around the truth before he finally owned up to the obvious.

"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 11, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s not about cheating, he was doing something as a role model to younger athletes that says here,take an advantage and don’t work as hard…

He should not of been doing them at all, and all the players that did them should be ashamed of themselves,unless they admitted to it,owned up and moved on with ther e lives,unlike some ppl with as big an ego as Mark…
 
 I kind of liked the Cards,I hope they finish last with that ugly freak as there hitting coach,hes a shame and a scheme..

by raven191 on Jan 11, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

You realize that half our 2002 WS team was on roids too right?

  and nobody on that team has come forward and admitted it…
  
   If we’re going to cast stones at the cards we should probably drag in Scott Spezio and Troy Glaus and Brendan Donneley and damn them as well, along with giving back our WS trophy.

by Nashdiesel on Jan 11, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

So was this guy on the Giants named Barry Bonds

You might have heard of him.

Didn’t he hit something like 4 HR in that series? If anything we were even and Boston and New York should give back the last few of theirs too.

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Jan 11, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh ok...

 so if Barry Bonds and the Yanks and Sox do it then the Angels can do it to?

  By this logic why are we admonishing McGwire? Everyone else was doing it right?

by Nashdiesel on Jan 11, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm talking about individual records

Unless we’re going to take a decade or two worth of entire seasons off the books, there’s really nothing to be done about it.

For individual records, simply strike them from the books and keep them out of the HoF if they were proven roiders. From now on if you’re caught, you should be suspended or banned.

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Jan 11, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm all for suspensions and bannings...

    now because steroids are against the rules, as they should be.

    But back then they weren’t against the rules. I don’t think we should ret-con the rules and say that it’s not OK after the fact.

    Selig knew it was going on and he did nothing. The owners did nothing either.

     If you don’t like something, then make it against the rules and punish violators who break them. But don’t stand there and do nothing while it’s going on and then come out after the fact and then say that what happened in the past doesn’t count because we don’t like it.

by Nashdiesel on Jan 11, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure you can

Humans re-write history all the time.

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Jan 11, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

You forgot Salmon

(let the lynching begin)

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Jan 11, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

BLASPHEMY

Kingfish hit homeruns juicing only on the laughter of children and cheers of the community!

And also the massive amounts of weight-lifting supplements taken by any athlete during the period. And steroids. And more steroids.

by shiftyeyedgoat on Jan 11, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

No real human can maintain that squatting/taking a dump batting stance

without the aid of the cream.

The cream Im referring to is Preperation H.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Jan 11, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

This image you've put in my brain...

  has ruined him forever. Never again can I watch game 2 with any kind of innocence any longer.
  
   Damn you!

by Nashdiesel on Jan 11, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

whah???

proof. (visual or statistical). you said it, you prove it por favor

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

if he was not cheating

WHY THEN didn’t he just come out and say “Folks, these ’roids work wonders, they really help me heal faster and hit the ball farther!” … why? beause he knew he was cheating the SPIRIT of the rules if not the letter of the law.

by Rev Halofan on Jan 11, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

precisely because they are against the law...

 and admitting that to congress under oath can get you in trouble.

  If roids weren’t illegal I bet he talks about it when he stands before congress.

by Nashdiesel on Jan 11, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Breaking the law is probably why he wouldn't fess up

Even though they were already long banned in most professional sports back then, anabolic steroids were only legal in baseball if they were prescribed by a physician to treat an existing medical condition. Jose Canseco jabbing a syringe in McGwire’s fat ass doesn’t sound like it was something that was legally obtained.

"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 11, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I wonder if that's all he jabbed in there...?

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Jan 11, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

he didn't want others to know

why tell your secret if it makes you better

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh.

I’m desensitized now. I could really care less.

1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com

by Slasher52 on Jan 11, 2010 12:50 PM PST reply actions  

I always hated McGwire

His appearance as an Athletic coincided with the Angels’ first glory years of 79-86.

He and most of the media were FUCKED UP BULLIES when the AP reporter came out with the Andro story in 1998.

He lobbied against the Cardinals starting the ’99 or 2000 season in Japan and said some ridiculously racist shit about asians and the butt-kissing media just smiled and MLB got another team to go start the season there.

I love the fact that mister pop fly over the fence is getting his tiny balls kicked in by the baseball writers with his laughably low vote totals for Cooperstown. Fuck him.

by Rev Halofan on Jan 11, 2010 12:51 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Two f-bombs in two days

Can’t say the police aren’ t being policed.

: )

by Sethy on Jan 11, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

No, I don't think I am.

Although I have been told that some of my ancestral roots can be traced to the Mediterranean region.

by XYZ123 on Jan 11, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Pat Burrell "Your P*ssy is Jealous"

Scoll down below Napoli’s mom.

Link

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Jan 11, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

i hate pat burrell

always have (even when he was on the phillies). always trying to hit the 3 run hr.

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

remember the

mcgwire for edmonds rumors back in the day (and the angels wanted to give the a’s anderson).

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Good strategy from big mac

Wait until its revealed that sammy sosa is actually a white man to admit to his use of steroids.

What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.

by clover_black on Jan 11, 2010 12:59 PM PST reply actions  

I thought

Sammy only used corked bats ;)

by responder on Jan 11, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

mac

now don’t I feel silly after taking FLINTSTONE VITAMINS – like he said he did…….
 - HAHAHAHA he was the ONLY person who believed he was not using the JUICE!

by responder on Jan 11, 2010 1:18 PM PST reply actions  

The living defintion of the term, "mere formality"

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Jan 11, 2010 1:18 PM PST reply actions  

He just had to smooth things over with Bud Selig,

the only one that matters to him going forward, certainly not the fans.

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Jan 11, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I am still trying to figure out how he qualifies as a hitting coach.

Isn’t he, like one of the top strikeout victims of all time, and with the fewest at-bats to achieve that infamy among his fellows on that particular leader board? Considering that he was the last person on the planet to chat up how he overcame this particular deficiency through modern chemicals, what maroon saw any value in his wisdom as a teacher now that his knowledge of bio-engineering is no longer current?

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 11, 2010 1:30 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe a moot point now.

Might not get the job.

OR …

This way he can get his 50 game suspention out of the way, and pinch hit for the Cards come June/July.

by eyespy on Jan 11, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

k'd a lot bc he always hit hr

but holliday and puljos (?) think he is a great hitting coach…that and the occasional ph in the postseason according to larussa

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Uh, by comparison,

Henry Aaron had more than twice as many AB’s as McGwire, but had about 200 fewer strikeouts while garnering 172 more career HR’s.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 11, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

tried to hit hr i mean

he had more x-base hits than singles.

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Some of that "tried to hit home runs" thing was a consequence of juicing.

Prior to juicing, including 1995 when maybe the ‘roids and their impact on his approach to hitting did not take full effect, Mac’s hits were about 53% singles (Aaron’s career percentage was about 61%). By the time he was done, Mac’s percentage of singles out of total hits dropped to about 48%. So Mac found easier power afrom juice, and tried to hit more HR’s on purpose because of juice.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 11, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions  

P-U-J-O-L-S

Pujols

"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.

by angels4adam on Jan 11, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

He pleaded the fifth...

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Jan 11, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

He never even answered the question.

His testimony was not compelled by subpena. He was asked if he was taking the 5th, and responded with his famous response about not being there to talk about the past.

by bearnut on Jan 11, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I am shocked, shocked!

I also heard there’s gambling going on at Rick’s Cafe Americaine.

"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 11, 2010 1:52 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Really??

Gosh I just thought his forearms were the size of a Texas because of hard work and dedication. Damnit!

First we had a Salmon and now we have a Trout, let's see the same results.

by angelskid2210 on Jan 11, 2010 2:05 PM PST reply actions  

well technically...

  you don’t get buff by just using roids. Working out is also required.

by Nashdiesel on Jan 11, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

He was beyond being "buff"

the dude’s forearms were the size of legs, you don’t get those without some sort of help.

First we had a Salmon and now we have a Trout, let's see the same results.

by angelskid2210 on Jan 11, 2010 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Shocking.

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Jan 11, 2010 2:07 PM PST reply actions  

mythology

versus quantifiable reality: American economy in a recession in 94, slow recovery in 95, booming in 98, reflected in baseball attendance with or without mac and sosa circus act for two teams.

by Rev Halofan on Jan 11, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I was in middle school then

And can honestly say I did not give two shits about Mark or Sammy and their dumb little race.

They had nothing to do with the Angels or the AL, so I didn’t care.

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Jan 11, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

My experience was much different

McGwire and Sosa opened my eyes to baseball nationally.

by BruinHalo on Jan 11, 2010 4:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Which is a little like saying that ...

Enron saved the economy.

Just Another Halo Victory / Rory Markas 1955 - 2010

by LazorkoRules on Jan 11, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Completely incorrect in my experience.

   I knew they were doping then, and it turned me off. Only a ignorant fool or kid could believe that what was going on was legit.

by Wally's World on Jan 11, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Same here.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 11, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

ditto

except it didn’t turn me off. I just didn’t care (it helps being a natural cynic — that way all of life is sour grapes)

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 11, 2010 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

It did turn me off. I was not ambivalent. I got kind of pissy and resentful.

And I would tune out and shut down during highlights and media love festivals. Some of that was directed at McGwire and Sosa, and the rest was directed at the media itself.

In all honesty, it never actually occured to me to get pissy at MLB itself for surfing that wave. I don’t deny that it happened, and I am pissy about it now, but it passed right over my head at the time. Maybe I didn’t have any pissiness left in my tank.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 11, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

musta got a refill in the man time

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 12, 2010 12:07 AM PST up reply actions  

"mean"

man I suks at tiping

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 12, 2010 12:14 AM PST up reply actions  

really though

why the anger toward steroids and not greenies? Surely you knew the prevalence of pro players taking speed (at least at a peripheral level) and that’s been happening for a long time. Was it the records falling that makes it different? Normally, you have a well reasoned, thoughtful response so I’m interested.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 12, 2010 12:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I have not overlooked greeneis.

My initial surrender on this problem here.
cupie rejects my surrender here.
I inject greenies in my response here.
cupie rejects the whole greenies thing here.
My response to cupie’s rejection here, including links to to the reality of the greenies problem at the end of that post.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 12, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Sayin Mac and Sammy savd baseball in 1998

is like saying America was gripped by the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry in the ‘00s… it makes for great media hype to justify sticking o one story that gets ratings but it doesn’t reflect things accurately, it establishes a narrative and then tells that WE enjoyed that narrative to all else going on.

by Rev Halofan on Jan 11, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes the noise itself is important

Most of the new products we come out with are only marginally successful (i.e., Guacamole Doritos or California Dill Lays). But the new noise reminds people that we have the other stuff out there and that maybe they haven’t had Nacho Cheese for a while.

I don’t think that the HR derby of 1998 saved baseball, but it probably brought baseball back into the forefront of the casual sport fan’s mind faster than otherwise and helped it the disillusioned baseball fan (except Stirrups) recover from the disaster of 1997.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 12, 2010 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I think we need a truth commission

Similar to what happened in South Africa. For those who come forward, they are welcomed back into the fold. For those who do not, and it is shown they used PED’s in any way, their records are stripped from the books.

In any other sport with effective enforcement, there are no asterisks next to records. Instead, the records are wiped clean. With what Mac has said about using PED’s during 1998 especially, how can MLB continue to keep those numbers in the official record books?

by bearnut on Jan 11, 2010 2:47 PM PST reply actions  

How is this on top of HH and the Vlad to Rangers thread is not?

Just curious.

One of them is a little more important to the Angels than the other…

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Jan 11, 2010 2:47 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I'm a bit biased on the topic

I went to high school with him.

This whole story is a “duh”. Seriously – did anyone really believe he did not juice?

That said, he broke the rules of baseball and cheated. He has wrecked his legacy and damaged the reputation of the teams he played for. He deserves whatever punishment comes his way from the choices he made.

by mustard_man on Jan 11, 2010 2:52 PM PST reply actions  

cnn (tv) had a story about it

was going to write this below, but here seemed good. some woman was talking about how robbed she was 10 years ago watching baseball, running off a flight to watch an atbat. uhm where was she last year when they announced he was a coach, 5? years ago before congress, etc etc

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

The more I think about the steroid era, the more I am for it.

Let players physically catch up to other changing adversities they face. The game is not the same for more reasons than just steroids.

Pitchers have the advantage of high tech, slow motion, high definition scouting. Breaking every pitch, every swing down to a frame by frame break down of a hitters weakness. This type of scouting has produced very detailed statistics such as hot and cold zones, %swings and misses for different types of pitches in different regions, spray charts, average pitch break and arm slot means.

As some true fans can account to a players weakness by watching 162 games a year and using that knowledge to self evaluate their own teams. The problem is, its nearly impossible to gather that much information on every player on every other team. That comprehensive information is now available at the click of a button.

The technological advances in baseball have greatly impacted defensive alignments and pitcher/catcher relationships. Gone are the days of pitchers throwing what they like on a whim, embarking upon the now far-gone pitcher vs batter intelligence war that raged on for so many years in baseball. Catchers have evolved into tape devouring, intelligence gathering, pitch selection encyclopedias that compute the hundreds of hours of swings they have watched into calling for a slider low and away.

I believe the advanced scouting of today have given the run prevention side of baseball a significant boost. I think the only real way to counter-act this growing and evolving science is to juice the living hell out of players. The ability to hit that mistake pitch 600 feet is something I will never grow tired of. Giving any one player the ability to turn what would have been a weak pop up into a line drive is an blessing in a pill (or maybe syringe) form that should not be looked down upon like Tom Cruise at the NBA all-star weekend.

I say let anyone take anything to counteract the HD-DVR robots of the Selig era. As long as its legal.

Bring on the Prescription Drug Era.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Jan 11, 2010 3:07 PM PST reply actions  

I don't want to be rooting for a World Series of the Pfizer Greenies vs. Merck Stickpins

Especially when the competitive battles making the difference on the field were accomplished by chemists months ago and miles away, and in total secret.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 11, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

But...yeah...in the end I do not believe that there is any real, accurate, meaningful, way

for the testing chemists to keep up with the inventing chemists. At least for the time being, the science of imagination has conquered the science of policing. We need to get over it.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Jan 11, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Say it ain't so, Mark

Wow, I just can’t believe it. First Santa Claus, now this. What is left to believe in anymore? Boy, next thing you know someone is going to say that there is no Easter Bunny or that Barry Bonds was juicing.

by Hoppity Hooper on Jan 11, 2010 3:17 PM PST reply actions  

I love that he is still hedging.

‘If I wasn’t injured all the time, I never would have needed the stuff to get better!’

Bullshit. You wanted to hit the ball farther so you took steroids to get stronger. That’s the honesty you need to express in order to start redeeming yourself, douchebag.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 11, 2010 3:48 PM PST reply actions  

or

“You still have to hit the ball. And no pill or shot will ever help you with the eye hand coordination.” But with the pill or shot it will make take it from a long out to going out.

by eyespy on Jan 12, 2010 2:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I think hes lying

This looks about the same

April 1997:

June 1997:

He just ate a lot of beef.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Jan 11, 2010 3:53 PM PST reply actions  

at least he's not kissing the mirror...

"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 11, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

hah, now show a before/after of the bonds.

his head grows to dinosauric proportions.

"come on, eileen."

by retrohalo on Jan 11, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Mark McGwire was pressured into a fake confession.

I’m pretty sure he’s innocent, along with Barry Bonds, and Roger Clemens.

I blame the media for all of this.

I've got nothing.

by bc56274 on Jan 11, 2010 3:58 PM PST reply actions  

Officer barbrady.................again......

Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 11, 2010 4:08 PM PST reply actions  

Best. Quote. Of. All. Time.

“I wish I had never played during the steroid era,” McGwire said.

That’s like if Mike Tyson said “I wish I had never fought during the ear-biting era.”

What little, tiny, shriveled b*lls he has.

Just Another Halo Victory / Rory Markas 1955 - 2010

by LazorkoRules on Jan 11, 2010 4:25 PM PST reply actions  

ANNNND THE TOP TEN ERAS MCGWIRE WISHED HE PLAYED IN

10) The beer and hotdog era

9) The Womanizing Era

8) The black hating era

7) The speed Era

6) The crack Era

5) The HGH Era

4) The “greenies” Era

3) The Black Sox Era

2) The “Whatever the hell Pujols is taking and getting away with it” Era

1) Fuck all you guys I saved baseball Era

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Jan 11, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Tiger Woods.

“I wish I had never played in the skank era.”

Just Another Halo Victory / Rory Markas 1955 - 2010

by LazorkoRules on Jan 11, 2010 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Nothing new to see here...

…Move along… move along…

OK, I'm finally over losing Tex. Thanks Kendry.

by 10 27 02 on Jan 11, 2010 5:12 PM PST reply actions  

OMGZ!?!?!?!?!?!

HE USEDED DA STEROIDZZZ???

at this point, it would’ve been better if he didn’t say anything – just let it go and whatnot.

"come on, eileen."

by retrohalo on Jan 11, 2010 5:15 PM PST reply actions  

I don't quite get all the venom

Hate McGwire because he was a dick (Rev’s assertion) or because he played for teams you despised, or because he was such a nutless wonder in front of Congress (hmmm. resulting from being juiced?), but for doing steroids? Getting an edge by cheating is as old as the game. Whether it was the Orioles hiding balls in the uncut outfield grass, or the Giants stealing signs so that Bobby Richardson could ruin Ralph Branca’s life or the Giants watering down the infield to slow down Wills or Gaylord junking up the ball (and he’s in the Hall), not to mention all the other tricks of the trade. Baseball has a long glorious tradition of putting winning over ethics. Seems so strange to jump all over this shit.

Additionally, players have used amphetamines illegally for decades. Speed is performance enhancing and also really really dangerous. Greenies just don’t enhance power and maybe that is why the emotion doesn’t surround it. While illegal (without a prescription) at the time, there was no provision in the collective bargaining agreement to punish users of either so why should we excoriate these guys now?

I’m not saying that Timmy or Brian (or any of the other players that I care so much about) ever used PEDs, but I am also sure that their status in the pantheon of my heroes would be diminished if they did.

There is an argument that McGwire doesn’t belong in the HOF even with the PED numbers (I’m not sure I agree), but the real battle will come up when Barry and Roger come up for consideration. The fact that both these guys are assholes will make the process enjoyable to me.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 11, 2010 5:52 PM PST reply actions  

i kinda sorta root for the cards every so often

because of jim edmonds. i mean at one point they had so many former angels they should have been the anaheim angels of st louis

by Halos in DE on Jan 11, 2010 6:32 PM PST up reply actions  

you are so right

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 12, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions  

great book about that moment

“Shot heard ’round the world”
by Prager
the title may not be right but it’s close

Who goofed? I've got to know.

by hittheg on Jan 12, 2010 12:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I tend to believe that the Sosa-McGwire "love-fest" of 1998 brought ...

a lot of the baseball fans back from the 1994 strike. Water-cooler talk of baseball was non-existant from 1995 to 1998, as I recall.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Jan 11, 2010 6:14 PM PST reply actions  

I always felt

it was the Yankees winning again and Derek Jeter that had a bigger impact. If it was just 2 guys hitting HRs one year, people would have moved on pretty quickly.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 12, 2010 5:17 AM PST up reply actions  

forgiveness?

A-Roid to Mike Wallace: “No, I’ve never used them, I never felt I needed them.” Fast forward…“Oh…I apologize”…in time to cash in for another 10 years. Tiger…are you listening?

McGwire’s apology is motivated pure and simple by cash. He wants some! He has been living behind private walls, golfing and staying away because he is a scumbag and knows he his a scumbag. “I am not here to talk about the past”….but now…he is talking, funny what a real “green” will do to one’s conscious. Did you read his statement…doubt he wrote it.

Should we give him a second chance…well sure. Sure, I’d hire him for any blue collar job that does not involve the need for honest…but should we attend St. Louis Card games…well, hell no. Nor do I like attending Yankee / Angel games….I only attend [because I’m a season ticket holder and] hoping A-Roid will strike out, trip, or maybe get a weggie running the bases with his tight ass pants pulled up to his crotch.

Baseball is in sad shape with regard to its reaction to roids…but lets putl all those kids who have pot issues, use illegal drugs, etc in jail…and let’s give those baseball pre-Madonna’s [sorry, couldn’t resist the A-Roid connection] millions. Besides, baseball fans are just dumb, overweight, hot-dog eating, beer drinking fools who bring their kids to watch. What does MLB care?

by angelmike on Jan 11, 2010 7:10 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I was in the mddle of writing a long response to your post

when I re-read it and realized I have no idea where you stood on any of the issues.

Which I guess is OK, because I’m so ambivalent I can’t write a coherent post on the subject other than to say that to crucify these guys is more than a little self righteous.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Jan 11, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I just love the weaselly sounding press release issued by Tony La Russa

“No one on the teams I managed worked harder or better (or shot more juice) than Mark. And now, his willingness to admit mistakes (now that the Statute of Limitations on illegal drug procurement has expired), express his regret (when he realized that not even his own mom believed him anymore) and explain the circumstances (twelve freakin’ years after the fact) that led him to use steroids add to my respect for him (plus as his manager I gotta cover my own ass here). I’ve defended Mark because I observed him develop his unique power hitting skill through a rigorous physical (everybody knows needles really hurt!) and fundamental workout program (involved lots of "potassium gum" chewing)."

"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 11, 2010 7:59 PM PST reply actions  

In other news...

fire is hot.

"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana

by Chzburger Jones on Jan 11, 2010 9:22 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, and so is

Mike Napoli’s mom

It's Always Somethin'

by Funke5ive on Jan 11, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Fuck Mark !

 I worked at Mark’s house almost 10 years ago in south county. Signed my name “kevin was here” on the back of his entertainment center in his living room. He would only sign 1 autograph for my boss. My boss gave it to his son Derek Landri… Funny thing… my boss and his son were on Roids too.

It's Always Somethin'

by Funke5ive on Jan 12, 2010 12:31 AM PST reply actions  

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