Gary Matthews Jr. Traded to Mets
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 8:13 AM PST
Email
PrintAfter news of discontent between Beltran and the Minaya Regime, I suggested that GMJ should be sent to the Mets if it was at all possible. Apparently Reagins reads our posts and takes note...or at least felt the same.
The Mets will acquire Gary Matthews Jr. from the Angels, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (via Twitter). Not surprisingly, the Angels will pick up much of Matthews Jr.'s salary, Heyman hears. The outfielder is set to make $11MM in 2010 and $12MM in 2011. He'll receive a $500K assignment bonus for being traded, according to Cot's.
That's all it says so far. No word on who or what we're getting in return. Obviously we're getting at least some cash but hopefully we're getting some players as well. Personally, I'd prefer a backup infielder and/or a halfway decent pitching prospect.
This is a great move for both the Angels and GMJ. He just wasn't ever going to get any starting time here. All three of our starting OFs are better offensively than him and at least as good defensively, maybe with the exception of Bobby Abreu. Gary did play well of the bench, especially last year, and didn't complain or cause any problems because he wanted to be traded and for that I say we owe him our thanks. We should all wish him well in New York.
In light of this (if it goes through) and the Pineiro signing, I'd say Tony has earned his Red Belt back for now. (Yes, Red Belt. We're the Angels; we wear red stuff!)
What do you guys think? What do you hope for in return?
My prediction thread (just for reference)
UPDATE:
The Angels showed interest in reliever Brian Stokes, but it's not known if he's part of the deal. The clubs were discussing minor leaguers.
UPDATE #1A:
The sky is apparently falling over at Amazin' Avenue
UPDATE #2:
10:28am: The Mets will send a "low-salaried pitcher" off the big league roster to the Angels, according to ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick, via Twitter.
UPDATE #3:
10:55am: Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports tweets that the Angels will acquire Brian Stokes in the deal. The 30-year-old allowed 72 hits and 38 walks in 70.1 innings last year, striking out 45 for a 3.97 ERA.
UPDATE #4:
11:20am: Heyman tweets that the Angels will pick up all but $2MM of the $23.5MM remaining on Matthews Jr.'s deal.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Oh
Happy Day! This made my morning!
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Vulcan death grip!
Now that’s a martial art I can endorse!
Brian Stokes is no great shakes, and we absorb all that sunk cost, but now Bobby Wilson has an opening going into spring training, and the air must feel a lot cleaner for Chris Pettit and Peter Bourjos about now.
Hopefully he ends up a defensive replacement/pinch runner mostly.
Worst case scenario he can go up and make a pitcher throw a ton of pitches before he walks or grounds out to third.
by SalmonStream on Jan 22, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
As I said before,
I’ll miss the guy, not his contract (though apparently we’re keeping that :-( ).
He did his job; and while he was unhappy, he shut up and soldiered, instead of bitching and possibly hurting the team.
Not to mention that he saved our bacon when Torii went down for a month mid-season.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
by red floyd on Jan 22, 2010 8:32 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I know, but we really didn't need him for the price
He was basically getting $10 mil plus to sit on the bench for all but maybe 2 months worth of games. If he was getting like $5 mil then I wouldn’t have had a problem with it. For that kind of money we should be getting someone we can use more regularly.
As far as backing up Torii, we have two speedy guys in Bourjos and Pettit (might have messed both of those up) who should be able to do it. It’s time to give them a shot.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
he's still going to be getting close to that for not even playing for the Angels
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Well look at it this way
In that the Mets are still going to pay his salary and somewhere around under $5 million of GMJ’s.
So essentially you can say we’re really paying about $10 mil a year for GMJ and Stokes. Split that and it’s $5.5 mil each. $5.5 mil for a reliever you’re actually going to use fairly often isn’t a bad deal.
Plus, I like the fact that this provides insurance in case Scot Shields doesn’t return to form. That probably won’t happen though — Scot Shields is Superman.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
F that first sentance.
Who do we gotta pleasure to get an edit button around here?
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
Bad idea, actually.
That function would allow someone a lot more power than merely go back and correct spelling or uncork some dyslexia. It allows them to alter content, which then screws up in everything in response. The whole sub-thread becomes worthless, which then trashes huge sections of dialog on the post page.
Suppose I post something simple, such as “Tim Salmon is the worst thing that ever happened to the Halos.” That post would cause a firestorm of vicious attacks. So then I go back and click an edit button and change the name “Tim Salmon” to “GMJ”, and now all those people who posted attacks towards me look like assholes and idiots. I look like the sane one and everything below me is out of context.
Just learn to forgive all typos, even one’s own, and to smile at the unique style we all have for correcting our thoughts.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
by Stirrups on Jan 22, 2010 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Numerous other forums have this and it works just fine
Just inlclude a function that automatically tags the post “Last edited at (time of edit)”.
This and block quoting keeps back peddlers in check since others can’t edit your block quotes.
Personally I think it helps keep threads neater because you don’t have people replying to themselves constantly going “Crap, I messed up. This is what I really meant to say…”
It could be the final piece needed to make Halos Heaven the ultimate power in the blogoverse…
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
YOU ARE A TRAITOR!
How could you POSSIBLY post such a negative comment about Tim Salmon???
(Joke – to emphasize the content of your well-made point)
by SocalAngelFaninOC on Jan 22, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
I am trying to make a career out of it, myself.
Somedays I make more progress than others.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
EDIT BUTTON
SBN for some reason does not want to add one or they would. The fear of someone changing meanings of their posts and ruining threads is a priority. I personally don’t use the PREVIEW feature and would like an EDIT button but … well, I am just a Reverend, not a CEO.
Now I need a dislike function
Not because of your post, just the information on SBN’s stance within it.
Can’t you like, threaten them with damnation if they don’t buy Indulgences (edit function) from you?
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, PhiSlamma's solution is pretty solid.
The underlying engine already allows for active pages to keep up with and track comments, which is how they perform the ‘actions’ (flag and rec).
So, as soon as anybody clicks “reply” on a comment, that comment’s “click” link is disabled.
Good option. Good idea by Phi. Leaves people free to amend their composition, and/or their thoughts, until their thoughts draw a response.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Seriously, an edit button is like a back scratcher
It might not be necessary, but I’ll be damned if it isn’t nice to have.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Disable editing after a reply has been posted directly to the post you want to edit
Not too complicated.
A lot of people catch what they want to edit within a few seconds after posting.
And no, we won’t start proof reading, that is for girls.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Yeah and they have coodies and suck at sports
I can prove both. ;)
/Hopes the lady Halo Fans don’t see this post.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Too late...
and I would pit Babe Didrickson Zaharias against any male athlete of any era. (By the way, it’s spelled ‘cooties’, not ‘coodies’!)
That is but one event that comes to mind along that line of reasoning...
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
I'm a dude. My mind is ALWAYS on this wavelength.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
But if you are not gonna proofread, how you gonna know that you need to click an edit button?
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
That is probably something else your husband says - all day long!
Those two thought streams are tightly related.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
He wishes!
This is fun, but I’ve got to get back to work, typing stuff that actually makes me money. (GO HALOS!)
I just got back to the office myself.
Looks like the traffic on this thread died down while I was gone. So I guess I gotta get back to work, too.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
How much of that is your money?
He’s glad he’s gone. We’re glad he’s gone. The young and eager players are glad he’s gone. Just be happy. It’s the best we could’ve possibly done.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Jan 22, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions
I agree Red, we hated him because of his salary...
If he had made less money then everyone would probably feel pretty “whatever” about GMJ. I have to admit though, the guy could’ve gone all Milton Bradley on us but he kept his cool, played when we asked and EVEN STOLE HOME!
That being said, I found it incredibly ironic that he was the last out of the season.
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 22, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
They are short a catcher, which we have an abundance of...
anyone think we might be sending a catcher along with this deal.
I am great with this, especially if it is for prospects (good ones, with plenty of options left) because we are starting to logjam talent again). Oh the curse of a talented minor league program. Always too many good prospects. What is an organization to do!!!
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
Multiplayer Football: http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=16986650
by matthiasstephan on Jan 22, 2010 8:37 AM PST reply actions
That might actually net us more of a return
If we were discussing minor leaguers, I could see it. Including one of our AAA catchers and most of the GMJ money might be what we need to get a major league ready player from them.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
You called it Nate!
Stokes wouldn’t be bad for giving us a decent Major League arm; his numbers the last 2 years were pretty decent.
Yeah just looked them up
I’m willing to forgive his first two years on the Rays. He was with them just before their 2008 renaissance. He could be a good middle relief option.
Not surprisingly, Amazin’ Avenue is pissed off.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
Holy Crap
Did not see that coming. Holy Crap
Props to the Ninja. Props to Commander_Nate for his foresight.
Sweet Holy Fuck (for January)…
by rghan on Jan 22, 2010 9:03 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed!
finally some good news for the organization (not to mention a fairly complimentary piece on Kazmir today by Buster Olney)
What was the gist of the rest of Olney's Kazmir article?
He almost had me sold on signing up for ESPN Insider…almost.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Better Shape and altering his slider
Pretty much just states how Kazmir has been working to improve his strength so that he can repeat his delivery better and is going to work with Butcher to make his slider more reliable.
by HaloFanInDC on Jan 22, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Cool
Sounds like he’s wanting to compete for Lackey’s job too then.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
a Sweet Holy F-BOMB from RGHAN?
Damn, you must be surprised!
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 22, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Thank you
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
So if this is really happening who do we think could come here in return??
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
previously known as (ANGELSFAITH)
It's officially Brian Stokes
They just updated a minute ago on MLBTR. His numbers say he was a bright spot on a Mets team that was horribly disabled last year. His WHIP is a little high, but other than that I’m willing to take him.
His career W-L record can probably be ignored since he has only been around 4 years, 2 on the pre-2008 Rays, and the last 2 on the Mets.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
cool hopeful he will contribute in a good way for us.
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
previously known as (ANGELSFAITH)
by TheAngelsColts on Jan 22, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Brian Socks seems to be heading here
I would assume that if Minor league players are involved. We’d be sending Wilson/Budde over to them, and hopefully net some of the Mets good prospects. I would say maybe two top 20 prospects.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
I've seen the Mets fans
call him Socks before.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Naw. How about "Fire Starter."
Only trouble is relievers are supposed to come in to put out fires, not start them. Well, we’ll see. He doesn’t automatically get a nickname anyway. He’s gotta earn it.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Jan 23, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions
awesome failure, though
let’s hope he’s not stinky socks. I would be Stoke’d if he’s good.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
The middle ground here, if he is bad, is "Stucks".
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
This also opens up the outfield some. Now the backups are willits, and probably Evans. This is assuming that Matsui doesn't
play outfield or even if he does a little bit it wont be a lot.
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
previously known as (ANGELSFAITH)
yes, Evans
a lot of people are penciling the younger guys (Chris Pettit and Peter Bourjos).
I think Evans will be the one who spends more time out in the field. I don’t thing he anything that special but wouldn’t be surprised to see him usurp Willits also.
by Rex Fregosi on Jan 22, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
isnt Evans out of options?
I think by default, he makes it to the 25 man roster.
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 22, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
Pretty sure your're right
About the options. And his numbers were pretty great at AAA last season. He deserves to get a long look at least before we bring up Petit or Bourjous. But Willits will see a lot more action this season, especially if he can make a play at batting lead off again like he did when Figgy was hurt in 2007(?).
"Baseball Is Life, Life Is Baseball!" -Tim Salmon
Sorry man, Willits is a joke when he isnt pinch-running...
2007 was a fluke. I promise.
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 23, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Go Ninja
Does it really matter who we get in return as long as it’s not Luis Castillo? And if it is Stokes then another middle relief option is never bad
NYM fans
are wondering why the Angels didn’t get Castillo? Uh, perhaps it is because he’s overpriced and we have zero need for a middle infielder?
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Makes no sense to trade
one OF with a bloated contract for another.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
Hell, I'd take a bucket of balls in exchange for the rumored salary the mets are taking on.
Thank you Mets!!!
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
Oops, I read the rumor wrong...
we are getting nailed on the cash. Bummer.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
Does the acquisition of Stokes
Mean Rich Thompson has almost no chance of making the team? He is out of options, correct?
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Not sure. We might still be able to use him.
At this point we have @ relief:
Palmer, Rodney, Stokes, Bulger, Jepsen, Shields, Fuentes.
We could still use 1 or 2 more bullpen arms. Thompson, Mosebach, or either of the two Rodriguez gets it.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
That means carrying 12 pitchers.
Something is going to give on the position player side, like a 3rd catcher (Wilson) or outfielder (Evans, Pettit).
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I would say an outfielder doesn't get a roster spot
Rivera, Hunter, Abreu, Willits, Evans/Pettit, and spot starts for Quinlan.
That’s enough, possibly.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
Well poop
I’m out of ideas. Looks like Thompson doesn’t get a roster spot. And hopefully he doesn’t get one, because I’d rather all our relievers do well this upcoming season.
Might be too much to ask for.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
Yea i dont think Q will be on the team.
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
previously known as (ANGELSFAITH)
by TheAngelsColts on Jan 22, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
That sucks
I was hoping that the Q stayed. He’s a great utility player to have. Despite his goofy swing.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
don't worry we got plenty of people to help fill that role and i think it will be fine. some that could help thoughout the season are:
izturis(if not playing third), and Evans and or Pettit.
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
previously known as (ANGELSFAITH)
by TheAngelsColts on Jan 22, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
None of those players
has a goofy swing.
*Ade-Rock 34*
by TheTypingFiend on Jan 22, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
We need Q's spot on the roster for young'ins
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Seems good but nothing to jump for joy over
We are paying $20 million for GMJ not to play for us. We get $3.5 million in cash relief plus an adequate middle reliever. Sure that is better than cutting GMJ and getting nothing. But GMJ did step in and contribute when Torii and Vlad were out for long stretches last season.
I don’t see this as a major win. But, on balance, it’s probably better than not making the move.
by Brody on Jan 22, 2010 9:22 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Better
Than paying him to play for us. I did a study last night, posted on Hardball Times Live today, that looked at run results with Hunter in center and Matthews in center.
With Torii, our pitchers allowed 4.12 runs per game. With Matthews, it was 5.33. That is huge. Willits/Pettit/Evans/Bourjos are all better backup options.
The HK-47 hitting droid is the finest line drive machine ever built
by RallyMonkey5 on Jan 22, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
The guy openly said he didnt want to play for us...
You cant have that kind of bad voodoo on your team. Its for the best….
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 22, 2010 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think he said that.
Didn’t he say “play me or trade me”? On top of that, he waited until the season was over, instead of causing clubhouse problems.
I don’t think he didn’t want to play for us, I think he didn’t want to NOT PLAY for us, if you get my meaning.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
That's essentially the same thing given our 3 incumbent outfielders
He wouldn’t have been happy about being the 4th OF here again. I wouldn’t have banked on him being quiet about it either.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, he pretty much said its times to move on after the season...
I applaud GMJ for keeping his mouth shut and not going all Milton Bradley on us half-way through the season. However, at the end of the season, he said he wanted to be traded.
I don’t expect to be back; it’s time to move on," outfielder Gary Matthews Jr. said as he packed his belongings in the team’s Angel Stadium clubhouse today. “I’m ready to play for an organization that wants me to play every day. This organization has other plans, and that’s OK.”
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 22, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for digging that up
As I said, no way he would have been quiet here this year.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but that's not the same as saying he didn't want to play for us.
I suspect he would have loved to play for us. He just didn’t want to sit on the bench.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
by red floyd on Jan 22, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL...c'mon man.
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 23, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Le Floyd Rouge has it correctly
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 23, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
Quick Stokes Profile
FIP
2008: 4.24
2009: 4.63
K/9
2008: 7.02
2009: 5.76
BB/9
2008: 2.16
2009: 4.86
Average Fastball
2008: 95.0
2009: 94.7
Salary
2008: $402k
2009: $409.5k
Not eligible for arbitration
I love the fact that he throws in the mid-90s and will be paid around league minimum in 2010.
Stokes is a nice addition to the bullpen.
by XYZ123 on Jan 22, 2010 9:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Where do we have room in the 'pen?
Rodney, Fuentes, Shields, Bulger, Palmer, Jepsen. That’s 6 already. Now we add Stokes?
Palmer would be used more as a
long reliever/spot starter. So it works out.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
Fun fact about Stokes
He is a former Devil Ray prospect.
Wonder if Butcher was lobbying for Stokes?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
I read that Stokes knows Butch.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Jan 23, 2010 1:02 AM PST up reply actions
With Stokes
You open up a competition this spring between him, Jepsen, Bulger, Shields and Palmer (and Thompson?)for the 4 longer relief spots, barring injury. Of course, Shields is hopefully fully recovered…
Man, the Mets sure are getting a reach around on the cash part of this deal
11:20am: Heyman tweets that the Angels will pick up all but $2MM of the $23.5MM remaining on Matthews Jr.’s deal.
Thanks, Bill Stoneman.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
I hope
our payment is structured like the Dodgers to andruw jones, meaning we pay it off over a LONG time
#34, never forget.
I dunno, I think I'd rather just get it over with...
We have the depth and talent right now to where we could forseeably go without big free agents for a little while. That may not be the case in 3-5 years and I’d rather not still be tied to a bad contract that is long gone, even if it’s only a few million per year.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
EAR TO EAR GRIN!
WOO HOO! This curse of the Stoned Man is over!
No offense to you, Gary, it was our GM who gave you all that money. Best of luck to you, GMJ. I hope the NY media goes easy on you.
I love this team.
180 DEGREE TURN
Whoa, I read on the Register blog that the Angels are going to pick up all but $2M of the salary. That means the Angels pay $21.5M for GMJ still over 2009 and 2010.
Therefore, this move SUCKS!!!! BOOOO!
Why not keep GMJ as insurance for a frail Matsui/Abreu combo. One of those guys is one pop fly away from injury. I don’t understand this, unless we are prepared to go with minor league backups in the OF?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
I kind of agree
But this way, it allows the Angels to bring on some young blood to the forefront. If Willits becomes our every day 4th, or perhaps making room for the other guys.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
Young blood instead of HGH-lacking blood.
Ok, I’m warming back up to the deal again.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Frail?
Check Abreu’s game log and see how many games he’s missed. Pretty sure he’s a workhorse.
Besides, we can get GMJ’s production from any other bench player.
by lightupthehalo29 on Jan 22, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Omar somehow found a way to make the Met's offense even worse.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
by PhiSlamma on Jan 22, 2010 9:29 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
hey nate...
they laughed at christopher columbus, they laughed at the wright brothers, who’s laughing now?
They laughed at Whitney and his Cotton Gin
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
I laughed at Whitney and Bobby.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
Ira Gershwin could not have forseen the Browns
It would have drastically changed Ella’s songbook if he had.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
i laughed at Sweet Eli Whitney's nose
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
by angels4adam on Jan 22, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
they wll always laugh at him
thank god for patents
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Jan 23, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
This deal sucks. I am not impressed at all.
I would rather use the roster spot on GMJ than this P.O.S receiver.
With the amount of money we are sending over to the Mets I would have liked to see a better return.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Jan 22, 2010 9:41 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
We only know Stokes is part of it as of now
Minor leaguers are part of the deal I think
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
Yeah. For me the jury is still out.
GMJ was a perfectly serviceable 4th OF. And he showed last year that he still has some ability to contribute on offense. More so than Willits anyway, who has the singular skill of a potential sacrifice bunt.
The only thing totally wrong anout GMJ was the financial overhead and, if reports are true, that is the one thing that we did NOT shed.
So now we pay out all that money and the only thing we got to show for it in a 4th OF IS Willit’s sac bunt skills.
I may need to mull this one over a while.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
by Stirrups on Jan 22, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We have like 4+ other outfielders to fill the bench
Willits, Evans, Bourjos, Pettit.
Plus I heard we got Gourneault back. Time to see what one of them can do. One of them will stick.
We need pitching much more than we need outfielders.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Every single name after Willits is unproven.
Willits is proven, but his one proven skill is pretty weak. So, out of all those names, we have pretty close to nothing we can count on. Everything else is mythical.
I am not above cycling in some of that minor league talent, (although I admit I put more stock in the lack of respect that all the other teams in baseball have shown towards our minor leaguers than what is proffered up around here). But that is what Q’s spot can be all about.
I don’t dispute that we ave an abundance of outfielders. Just like we have an abundance of infielders. But what we REALLY need more of is power on offense. Instead, from the 2009 power production equation we lose Vlad and GMJ, and we add…Willits??
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
I forgot Matsui, for what that turns out to be worth.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Unproven means just that
They are not guaranteed to bad or guaranteed good. Chances are at least one of them is an adequate major leaguer.
Outside of Torii, nobody in our outfield spent any really signifcant time on the DL. Abreu was his typically durable self. Rivera spent maybe a week on the DL with a pulled hamstring. Outside of that and his freak accident in Winter Ball in 2006, he’s pretty healthy.
There is also the possibility of Kendry being put in a corner outfield spot with Wood taking 1st and Izturis taking third. Not an ideal solution, but we have plenty of options in a pinch.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Well, if you are gonna play that game...
Palmer – O’Sullivan – Jepsen – Bulger – Mosebach – Ortega – RRod – FRod – Thompson. Hell, throw in Shields since we don’t know if his health allows him to regain his setup spot.
So all of those have to yet to be proven to be bad in the role of middle relief for 2010. Therefore, why it presumed that we are really shallow there, and we need to add an 11th name? And, since we still carry GMJ’s $$$, we have to assign about half of that $$$ to this 11th name, to boot.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
As I asked GK below, what would you have done differently?
Reagins made the best of a bad situation and got us something we could use. Monetarily it might not even out, but as far as production it likely will.
Your argument is essentially “we payed all of this money for him so we might as well keep him unless we can get the same back.”
While I understand that sentiment, it’s unrealistic in reality. Sometimes you have to realize a bad investment and simply cut your losses and move on.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
I cannot answer that. None of us know what Reagins had to contend with.
My gut tells me to bark at GMJ and tell him to man up. He took the friggin’ money, so he can drag his sorry ass out onto the field and fight to get his job back and regain some of the respect that comes with that kind of contract.
My instincts tell me that the rest of baseball were giddily happy to be able to hold GMJ’s contract to Reagins’ head and tell the Halos to go screw themselves for making that stupid contract in the first place, warping baseball contracts everywhere. No way they were going to do anything that helped Reagins get out from under that.
My guess is that, as you originally noted, Beltran falling out of the Mets’ tree and rendering himself out of commission was the miracle that allowed Reagins to get somebody to even answer his phone call.
But, once the Mets took that call, I have no idea what kind of bargaining power they still had. So I have no idea how realistic it may have been to get them to pick up more of his contract, or to throw in a stronger prospect.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
They will be if you are replacing them with Willits' 493.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
What we have here in this thread
is a textbook example of “irrational exuberance”.
I would rather have GMJ than Willits coming into the game in late innings to replace Abreu or Rivera, everyday and twice on Sundays.
Maybe the grand scheme is to find an opening for Evans, but I would have to believe the front office would prefer that Pettit and Bourjos play everyday in SLC rather than ride the bench in Anaheim. They may get call-ups when there are injuries—Sciosica seems to like giving kids a taste then sending them back down, to give them an incentive to work even harder—but Willits isn’t any team’s long-term response to anything.
At the end of the day, we’re paying GMJ to play in Citi Field. Maybe Stokes is new new Brendan Donnelly, but unless he is, I don’t see the reason to go out and celebrate.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think it's "irrational exuberance"
I’d say it’s more along the lines of “justified satisfaction”.
We are moving something we really didn’t need, a $10 million reserve outfielder, for something we do need, a viable reliever. We already signed the dotted line on the money so there wasn’t much to do about that in the first place. For all we know, we could have also avoided some clubhouse trouble in 2010. Gary accepted his role last year and then asked to be traded, which he had earned the right to do. He would not have been satisfied if he was still here this season and there’s no guarantee he would have stayed quiet again.
I’m not quite “jumping for joy”, but I am happy with this move since it’s one we have been seeking for a while. Tony did his best to get a rational improvement for the Angels out of a bad situation.
I approve of his performance on this matter.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What is the point in "moving a $10M reserve OF"
…if the team still pays $10M? And three of the starting OF are creaky and mid-30s?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
WAR and Actual contract value
are what people are looking at. I heard that GMJ amounted to a -$7M (that’s negative) for a player in his position in 2009. Dumping, in that case, is logical (see the entry “stop the bleeding” in the dictionary).
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We are getting a middle reliever who will provide more value more often
As I said, there wasn’t much to do about the money. What would you have done differently?
How is our outfield “creaky”? Abreu was as durable as ever last year. Rivera only went to the DL for a week or so last year. Torii’s injuries come from slamming into walls more often than they do from him being unhealthy.
And Rivera is only 31 by the way. Not exactly old. We have 4-6 backups without GMJ. We’ll be fine.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
I think we were fortunate to not have injuries in the OF in 2009...
but otherwise, I agree, that OF is downright “creaky.” Throw in “balsa-man” Matsui into the mix and man, what a geriatric outfield it is.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
I just don't see where this is coming from
Abreu has averaged something like 150 starts over most of his career, including last year.
Rivera has been pretty durable over his only two full seasons and good for 140 or so starts. He only went to the for that week last year because he tripped over somebody trying to beat out a throw at 1st base.
Hunter and his epic battles with the CF wall are the only consistent concern.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He manages that by not running into the OF fence
Abreu has averaged something like 150 starts over most of his career, including last year.
Likewise, expecting a repeat of past performance (in terms of “durability”) in a mid-30s player is a loser’s game.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
As is predicting something there is no evidence of.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't be surprised
That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Angels pick up another outfielder/utility guy on the free agent market. Probably someone who can play all three outfield positions. Probably for no more than 2 million a year.
I know that some people here seem to have a “man crush” on Terry Evans, maybe just because he’s cheap. But, it would be nice to have someone a little more proven, maybe someone with a little pop in their bat. Reggie Willits is not a bad guy to have weighing down the end of your bench.
by righteous halo on Jan 22, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with GK for the most part
Here’s what I know:
- moving GMJ was a must
- I wish we had moved him without paying all but $2M of his $23M salary
- I give NINJA a “C” because I could have given GMJ away for almost free, too.
Angels 2009 WS Champs
(not a Willits fan myself, but...)
I knew you’d show up on the anti-Willits parade float! ;)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Why because I can rational look at his performance and realize he sucks?
He is terrible in center and his bat is an abortion.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
I'd rather have Evans on the roster instead of Willits.
by WiHaloFan on Jan 22, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe we can now afford to pay the Mets $2 mill to take him?
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
keep in mind
That all the people who say they hate this deal because GMJ is a great 4th outfieldre is missing two points.
1- Hes is not great based on his salary a 4th OF should not cost that much, and that production is easily replaceable by affordable parts.
2. He was great last year because he kept his mouth shut. But the cat is out of the bag now. He hates the backup role and wants out. This might not be the year where you say that he is a great 4th OF.
Lets be done with the GMJ situation and welcome the bevvy of new and young talent that will be on our roster this season.
My prediction as of 12-11-2009- Wood .265 avg, 20 HRs 70 RBIs and an above average glove at 3b
by Sinatrasratpack on Jan 22, 2010 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I doubt that GMJ has been great as an outfielder for some time now.
He looks (to me) to be pretty shaky in the field any more.
But, to your point #1: we ARE KEEPING 90% of that salary and getting 0% of whatever offensive productivity he brings to the game. Meanwhile, we are still paying the full salary of whomever is slotted into his shoes, which we would have paid all along anyway. And, we pretty much know who that replacement is, so we already know that no matter how little offensive production we might have gotten out of GMJ (which was pretty bad last year, but not fatal), we are getting even less from his replacement.
If we had shed GMJ’s contract, it would be a no brainer for me. But we did not. We just shed the upside. I am not sold yet.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
How would we have contract?
I keep hearing that as the main argument against this deal and I’ve yet to hear a realistic way that it could have been done.
The Mets are picking up about $2 mil on GMJ and it’s likely they are picking up Stokes’ salary as well in return for the boatlad of cash from us. Even if they aren’t, Stokes is getting near league minimum and is ineligible for arbitration as I understand it. He’s not exactly crippling to our finances.
I’m willing to bet Stokes’ production out of the pen winds up being more valuable than GMJ’s production of the bench in the end.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Did you mean to write:
“How would we have shed contract”?
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Yep
Still willing to demean myself for an edit button.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
Crap. You stole my thunder. I had a joke all lined up to relate to above, too.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
MUAHAHAHAHA!!!
Sorry, man. ;)
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Suppose
that Terry Evans can do everything that GMJ did. I think that’s within the realm of possible. Then it basically becomes Evans & Stokes for GMJ, with the benefit of ridding the team of any bad mojo that would result from not trading him. Call it a wash.
Yeah, that's the closest thing to "glass half full" I am taking away from this right now.
Kind of inspired by WiHalo below.
The Halos shed $4mill of payroll (a smidgeon, but something they can use to balance raises). They show some professional respect to one of their players by allowing GMJ to regain his career (not a small thing in today’s FA baseball market where you are trying to demonstrate to players that you are a good place to play.) And they open up one roster spot worth of possibilities in a season that is probably one of ‘stabilizing for the future’.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
We are still paying him.
I would rather have him as an outfield reserve than this hack reliever we picked up
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
Today was a good day.
And I didn’t even have to use my AK.
And we never have to use our GMJ
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Today would have been a good day.
Had I been able to see the sun…or not see a river in front of my house…etc. etc.
Driven into right-center field, Erstad says he has it...the Angels, world champions!
I guess the Mets aren't complete idiots.
They aren’t stupid enough to pay his contract. At least the Angels don’t have to carry him on the roster anymore.
"I aim to misbehave." - Mal Reynolds
by Zach (maestro876) on Jan 22, 2010 9:50 AM PST reply actions
As much as he bugs me, Matthews is clutch.
Sure it’s great that Mary the Albatross will finally be off our necks, but at the same time, he made some critical contributions to the team last year.
With the Bases Loaded: .571 with 13RBI in 7 chances.
RISP: .358 with 43RBI.
Would you still rather have Willits coming off the bench in a clutch situation?
Missing Garret "Groundout" Anderson
I never said he didn't have value
It’s just not the value we need. He’s netting us a solid reliever which was an Achilles’ Heel for us all the way through the season to the ALCS last year.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
I would rather have
Our young outfielders getting starts over him. GMJ has a negative WAR. So having him replaced is better for us.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
@ METS FANS
Why is Stokes a “fan favorite?” What did he do to provide the entertainment for the fans last year? Is this another Justin Speier (class clown) kind of player?
I love this team.
He's more of a cult hero due to the fact the Jerry routinely forgot he was on the roster.
Biily Wagner commented that he didn’t want to be a waste in the bullpen like him while rehabbing. He’s really not much more than a ROOGY, but he was a constant reminder of the ineptitude of the Mets management.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 22, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
This is a funny write up of a day in Stokes life...
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 22, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Now that is some funny stuff.
Almost as good as the ASG script we had a few years back.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Wow, that is just effin' hilarious!
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
brilliant
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
since they did that for stokes
someone here help em get aquainted witht their new CF……. with a day in the life of GMJ!
I don't know if any of us can match that...that was pure brilliance.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 25, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
The other thing too is
This might lead to another deal. We have a lot of talent at catcher down on the farm. We’ve got a lot of outfield pieces too. Why not make a deal involving some of our surplus pieces for some young talents to further restock the farm.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
So our fourth bench spot is between Sandoval and Evans now right?
I think everything else is set now.
Let's piece out the 25-man
Pitchers (12):
Weavers, Kazmir, Saunders, Santana, Pineiro, Palmer, Bulger, Jepsen, Stokes, Rodney, Shields, Fuentes
Infielders (5):
Aybar, Izturis, Kendrick, Morales, Wood
Outfielders (5):
Rivera, Hunter, Abreu, Willits, Pettit
Catchers (2):
Mathis, Napoli
DH (1):
Matsui
Total: 25 – I don’t see any space for Sandoval or Evans.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
Naturally assuming he's in
Would Evans or Sandoval get the nod over Pettit?
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
and you are also assuming Bulger.
Maybe with Palmer being our spot starter and long reliever, and with the new aquisition it is bye bye to Bulger or at least called up throughout the season
My prediction as of 12-11-2009- Wood .265 avg, 20 HRs 70 RBIs and an above average glove at 3b
by Sinatrasratpack on Jan 22, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
bulger is a shitbag
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
Lol
this made me laugh out loud.
Why?
I dont know, but, I love your statistical analysis of Bulger.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
he's bootcheck 2.0
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
five words
Jason Kubel cycle-completing grand slam.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
er uh, six words...I can count ya know!
;)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Right now, Evans is more likely than Pettit
Evans is out of options. Pettit isn’t.
Evans wouldn’t benefit from more time at AAA, Pettit most likely would.
It could all change if Pettit sets the world on fire in Tempe, but we do recall Matt Brown did that last Spring and you can see all the good it did for him.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
I only picked the 7 relievers that I know are relievers
I have no idea what the FO knows right now.
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
At least we have an "heir and a spare," as the British say
and it sets up a lot of good competition this spring in both outfield and pitching positions
Dang, I sure hope you are wrong...
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed.
But Shields is Superman.
HE WILL PROVE SO!!!!!…I hope.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
I think he meant
More along the lines of the problem being easy to fix, just taking a long time to heal properly.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Matsui is an OF...
so I think we’ll dump Petit and put Sandocal on the roster
Both Budde and Wilson are out of options.
Don’t you think we carry a third catcher (thinking Naps gets ABs as DH)? Otherwise Budde/Wilson/Mathis are gone anyway.
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
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by matthiasstephan on Jan 22, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
Angels just won the lottery
trading GMJ is nothing short of a miracle.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 22, 2010 10:35 AM PST reply actions
The SBNation News Story claims that the Mets are picking up the remaining $23 million on GMJ.
Is that just lazy reporting on their part?
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
I'm crossing my fingers right now
hoping the SBN News Story overrides the MLBtraderumors.
I’ll probably lose in this situation, but it’s nice to dream
"Just another Halo victory" - Rory Markas
The open spot could be used for
Miggy Tejada as insurance at 3B and another bat – cheap for 1 or 2 years.
by Anaheim Angel Fan on Jan 22, 2010 10:42 AM PST reply actions
I think our biggest communal angst from past posts
was not “dumping” GMJ and still paying most of his salary, but dumping GMJ and getting a big-salaried stinker in return—perhaps someone like Perez, et al…or Bradley…
How is he crappy?
His ERA was 3.97 last year and his W-L can be attributed to to being on a terrible Mets team. His career numbers suffer from spending his rookie years on an even more terrible Rays team. He’s improved over the last 2 years.
Other than his WHIP I’d say he’s average to slightly above-average.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Improved?
His BB/9 and SO/9 are going the wrong direction. He allows too many hits walks too many batters and does not strike anybody out. Sounds crappy to me.
He has a career ERA+ of 86. Slightly above average? I think not.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
Yet his actual ERA has remained remarkably improved over the last two years
As I said in the post before this, look at the teams he was on, especially his first 2 years with the then-terrible Rays, when his ERA and HR allowed were astronomical.
He imporved significantly in 2008 and more or less maintained that improvement last year over more than double the amount of appearnces and IP. He certainly isn’t terrible.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
No...
ERA means how many runs the pitcher is responsible for giving up. It is a consequence of WHIP and K/BB ratio. If ERA meant nothing, it wouldn’t be one of the key pitching stats in baseball like it has been since the sport’s inception.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
To anyone who has done any kind of even remotely robust statistical analysis, ERA is almost as worthless as wins. It’s especially poor for projecting future performance.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
i think...
it’s more accurate to say, rather than saying ERA and wins are worthless, that they should be taken with a grain of salt.
you can’t say winning 20 games in a season is worthless, or having a 1.00 ERA is worthless, or having a 0.50 WHIP is worthless, or having a 5/1 K/BB ratio is worthless, or pitching 200 innings is worthless… but they all CAN be worthless individually, depending on what all the other stats are. if you have all the above stats together, then you have a hell of a pitcher (or EXTREMELY lucky one…), wouldn’t you say?
all of that said… the BEST way to judge a player is with good old fashioned scouting. i’ve never seen Brian Stokes pitch. therefore, regardless of numbers, i don’t know how good he is.
No, it's an aggregate created out of consequence of the other stats mentioned
It provides an overall look at a pitcher’s performance. The goal of pitchers is to prevent runs from scoring. Good pitchers have lower ERA’s and bad ones have high ERA’s, with 4.00 being considered the rough border between average and good.
WHIP is an important stat, but measures efficiency more than actual results. You can have a 1.5 WHIP (essentially allowing a walk or hit or two per inning) and still prevent the runners from scoring by inducing flyouts, groundouts, DPs, or strikeouts. If you can do this with enough consistency, your ERA will stay low and you will have done your job as a pitcher.
Stokes’ performance last year and in ’08 was right around average for a major league pitcher.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
"ALMOST WORTHLESS"
I love how you give NO BACKUP other than “the stat fairy in the sky said so” … Not that I disagree with you Gorby, but you are arrogant AND lazy to make a shit post like that.
FiP, WHIP, ERA+ are also all worthless
The only way to correctly project future performance is by how badass his goatee is.
No goatee = lost cause.
ANY statistician will tell you that. And ill give you as much back up evidence as you gave…….
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
I want to see his inherited-runners-scored stats...
I have the darndest time finding that on BB-ref for relievers.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
ERA is almost useless for a reliever
Reliever comes in with the bases loaded and two outs, and gives up a triple. He then gets the third out.
None of the three runs scored count against him, and he leaves the inning with an ERA of 0.00 for the game.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Right because the runners on base are the previous pitcher's fault
Thus they get tagged onto that pitcher’s ERA.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Correct
Which is why it is a largely useless stat for relievers.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Jan 22, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
It's still not totally worthless
Blown saves, losses and the like are assigned to the pitcher in your scenario.
ERA still measures how many runs they are directly responsible for creating.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Not worthless but also not ideal
to correctly measure a pitchers true performance especially relief pitchers. FIP is a better stat because it represents how well a pitcher actually pitched independent of the defense behind him.
By taking into account the three things a pitcher can control: Walks, Strikeouts, and HR’s we are able to get a more accurate read on performance because an ERA has too many variables that a pitcher has no control over.
good choice of words
STAT-wankers get the reputation for being pigheaded arrogant nerds who never get laid because of their obstinancy more than their homeliness, and it is bandying about wors liek “worthless” in regard to a common stat that gets them this reputation. ERA is not IDEAL, especially for low inning types, exactly, and understandable
I'm not disagreeing with you guys about the usefulness of the other stats
But ERA is a benchmark for pitchers, whether they be starters or relievers.
Whenever a pitcher starts struggling the first thing pointed too is typically how much his ERA has gone up. Whenever one improves by any measure, ERA is again one of the primary stats pointed to.
It is a measure of overall effectiveness. The others provide more detail as to why he is or is not effective.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Not really
Lets use some extreme examples as to why this isnt the case.
Lets create one reliever who has pitched in 10 innings This pitcher has allowed every single inherited runner to score, for a total of 20 runners, but since the runners werent credited to him his ERA stays at 0.00.
On the same team another pitcher has pitched in 10 innings. In these ten innings he got out of 8 bases loaded jams, but, in other starts gave up a total of four runs. His ERA would be 4.00
Which reliever would you rather have?
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Troy Percival
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
So basically, the 1st one is Jason Bulger and the 2nd is a reverse Fernando Rodney?
In that case I’d take both of them and switch their roles. Bring #2 in during jams and #1 in at the beginning of an inning.
All kidding aside, I get your point and I think the detail provided by other stats is very useful in determining the roles pitchers should fill. However, even in your example, ERA measures how good or bad they are alone starting from scratch without inherited runners, etc. #1 gets outs but apparently gives up a hit here or there, likely a contact pitcher. #2 may rely on strikeouts and velocity or something.
Anywho, this all started over whether Stokes is more valuable to us than GMJ, and I think you and I agree that he is. Plus it’s Friday and I got off work early, time to party!!!
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
BRIAN MOTHER FING STOKES
Brian will start and close every game.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Inherited runners scored is a good stat
so is WHIP and holds to a certain extent for firemen who come in to save innings.
ERA is fucking worthless, as is losses.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
It was my understanding that he is a minor league pitcher, thus not taking a spot on the 25 (unless someone goes down).
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
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by matthiasstephan on Jan 22, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Another way to look at this is...
…the Mets are saving the Angels $2,000,000. The money for Matthews was already spent, and for that money the Angels were getting little (or no) value. Now, the Angels save the $2m and get a serviceable reliever in return.
When I look at the deal in that context, I like it. But I also think GMJ was a class act while with the club by not causing trouble in the clubhouse and doing what was asked of him on the field. It wasn’t his fault he was overpaid.
If they DFA'd GMJ
They would have to pay all of the salary less the minimum. So they really aren’t saving $2M. More like $1.2M
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
Well I am not impressed with the return or the savings.
The reliever sucks.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
Then I ask you the same question: What's your alternative?
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
I understand your point in keeping him,
but if the Angels had DFA’d him, they eat the entire amount. At least with this deal, they recouped $2m (or so).
I'd rather have the roster spot
The reliever sucks, now if they DFA him I’d be happier
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
Stokes may be better than Thompson
That’s whose roster spot he might be taking. Picking up a pitcher doesn’t effect the roster where it concerns the OF unless the team decides to keep 12 pitchers instead of 11.
For what purpose? We get more value from a viable reliever
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe it was his fault he was overpaid. HGH, remember?
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Well, a case could be made that he did take HGH to artificially upsell himself
into a higher market where there would be a lot of arm-twisting among the power teams in order to compete for the services of a GG, power-hitting, fleet-footed, outfielder.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Remember that GMJ would have been our 5th outfielder
Matsui has said he would like to play at least some outfield, so Johnny Rivers, Abreu, and Hunter + Matsui = 4. GMJ or Willits only gets time as a 4th if someone gets injured, thus they are 5th outfielders.
Another way of looking at this is that I was dangerously close at running
out of bricks to throw at my TV whenever GMJ was playing, whether it was his routine rally-killing fey groundouts to the 2nd baseman, his inopportune strikeouts, the way he swung his arms when he jogged off the field after his routine outs like a T-baller, and his consistent lapses out in the field. How Stoneman can deem GMJ worthy of a $10 million/year contract based upon one (1) highlight reel catch over the fence in Arlington and one aberration of a year amid a career of suckitude is beyond comprehension. My guess is that Bill suffered a stroke that year that robbed him of any rationality. That, or he and GMJ plan on meeting on the beach and embracing in Zijuatenejo, the scheme having worked.
Albatross, thy name is GMJ.
by PieceOfAase on Jan 22, 2010 11:19 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
Drugs...
I am confident that we could have easily gotten 3+ years of HGH fueled excellence from GMJ and nobody would be complaining. The guy mashed on the juice, and GM’s prior to the Mitchell report all paid for it.
by Wytelitning on Jan 22, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Mashed?
He hit .313 with 19 HR in his best year. That’s hardly “mashing”
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
were his 10 steals good for a leadoff man?
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
he's not good at either of them
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
He was never good at any of them. On or off the drugs
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
GMJ was probably one of the most clutch angels down the stretch.
Might want to save the bricks for a napoli wiff come september.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 22, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
Not that I am adamant about keeping GMJ
But the Naps part…
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Napoli's mom's nipplage slippage made up for it.
Albatross, thy name is GMJ.
by PieceOfAase on Jan 22, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
hate to say it..
but you’re right.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 22, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
As much as I enjoy being a fan of the Angels,
and of sports in general, I really enjoy reading entertaining comments left by those who can write. While I don’t necessarily agree with the entire above comment, it gets a solid A+. Well done! (Nice use of the adjective ‘fey’, by the way!)
I also enjoyed PieceofAase's entertaining, well-written comment
Three thumbs up!
Tape an aspirin on it
and the reference to the Shawshank Redemption also deserves a rec.
Driven into right-center field, Erstad says he has it...the Angels, world champions!
Interesting that we've cleared up that room in the Luxury Tax salary cap, not that I expect to hit it.
Rest in peace, Rory. When I think of some of the greatest moments in my Angels fandom, I hear your voice describing them. Thanks for everything you gave us.
Nice move
Considering GMJ’s WAR was in the negative the last few years (-0.8 WAR each in ‘08 and ’09) and the Angels were able to acquire more than a bag of balls for his services, I will gladly take this move. Stokes may not be great, but he’s cheap and at the very least the Halos will save around 1 million with this move. That’s better than DFAing him and receiving nothing.
RIP Nick Adenhart
I disagree
I would rather have the roster spot. I would rather have GMJ being the first sub than Willits.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
What about Evans, Pettit or Bourjos?
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
i'm not sure what this move means...
honestly, I expected a little more for GMJ, just because he’s a serviceable player. i understand that his contract made him extremely unattractive, but i’m not sure this move makes it any better. it frees up the payroll on paper, but the front office is still paying it, and in a sport like baseball, is that really any better? i’m not sure Brian Stokes will make an impact this season, so for now, I have to take it for what is and assume that this was just a straight up dump of GMJ to another team.
i find myself scratching my head at a couple of the things the front office has been doing lately, not that i don’t trust they’ll put a good team onto the field. i’m just wondering why they didn’t up the ante on grabbing another great starting pitcher (Joel Pineiro is nice, but not an ace), signing Matsui over Vlad even though Vlad took less in Texas than Matsui took in LA…. i can only hope that the young guys are ready to take over, OR the Angels are planning to make a big splash in next year’s deep free agent pool.
at least we still got the Rally Monkey! hoorah!
which ace would you have picked up?
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
Better than just outright releasing him
which had to be one considered option.
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
This move was terrible!
We gave them $21 million as well according to Yahoo! Sports! We are basically paying GMJ not to play for us?!
GMJ may be on the decline, but he is in no way useless?!
We are only going to be saving 1million dollars!? And considering our outfielders have a tendency to get injured, we definitely could use a backup of his caliber!
THIS OFFSEASON IS A COMPLETE FAILURE!
In Kobe we trust!
Keeping GMJ means basically releasing Willits
Since carrying a 6th OF is highly unlikely.
He’s not on the decline the guy is a terrible player. Both his offensive and defensive stats are well below replacement player level. We’d be better off going with…Reggie Willits.
Actually getting a serviceable reliever for him is a decent move.
get away from that ledge
GMJ was one of the worst players in baseball last year. He’s also not even one of our starters. Stokes has a 95 MPH fastball and has been a decent reliever the last two years. At least with this trade we might get some positive production from that roster spot.
Rivera and Abreu are rarely injured
Pretty much never in Abreu’s case.
The money was already spent, not much else to be done about that.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
The bullseye on Willits' back may be growing...
How long before we start to read the following?
“He runs bad routes!”
“Stop looking for the damned walk and swing the bat!”
“The guy has just one job and he can’t even do THAT!”
“If he had any kind of arm…”
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
but Reggie is a fast base runner and can bunt, which pleases the Soth.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
Pitching pitching pitching defense pitching defense pitching defense defense defense
basehit speed pitching defense steal pitching hit-and-run pitching defense defense sac bunt pitching defense basehit squeeze defense pitching defense power pitching pitching defense.
Cannot argue with results. But no style points for me.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Mathis still makes throws the center field
…we’ll be fine.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jan 22, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
And my all friends are study every match this team.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Angels baseball is my all time favorite team.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
I saw a rainbow this morning
Apparently that was the good lord picking up GMJ to deliver him to NY.
Praise the great cloud rider!
by SalmonStream on Jan 22, 2010 1:49 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Except GMJ took the pot of gold with him
Tape an aspirin on it
by Higz on Jan 22, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
nice
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
ahh, i don't know.
school, work, blah, blah.
Once you haven’t logged on for a week or two, the thousands of unread comments are kind of daunting. I’ve been around, just not talking much.
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
Later Gary............
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 22, 2010 2:33 PM PST reply actions
I wish this move would have been made earlier
so we could get some cap room and maybe have been a little more aggressive with some free agents… but good luck anyways GMJ
One time...
cap room?
What? This isn’t the NFL, buddy boy.
by shiftyeyedgoat on Jan 22, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
I think he meant the Luxury Tax
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
If he did
then we still have around 35 million more to spend before we get there..
by shiftyeyedgoat on Jan 22, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
I think he meant Arte's personal salary cap...
you know, his bank account
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
I'm excited about Stokes
posted from a yellow submarine.
by Figgi4life on Jan 22, 2010 3:14 PM PST via mobile reply actions
So if Willits inst a good OF option, who is?
If we need to sign another OF who should it be?
They want power. We want respect...
Brian Stokes is from Montclair, California.
I always take my mom to the Acapulco in Montclair for her birthday dinner. It is the only one open on Christmas day.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
Trade your mom in for a new one.
You need one of them mom’s that wants to go to The Hat just up the road for her birthday.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Is there beer there? My mom will go anywhere there is cold beer.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
Not according to
their menu. Sorry.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
I wonder if the Angels are planning on keeping Stokes or maybe making him part of another trade?
Obviously we weren’t going to get much for GMJ, but I’m not sure Stokes will do well in the AL.
Have to wonder the same thing for the Mets too, it seems that this should have been a small addition after they worked everything else out, if anything.
I was pretty sure this is how it would go.
Glad to see him gone, though I never really hated him as a person. He was guy who’s contract made it tough to stick up for him.
~Till the Halo burns out...
So, at the end of the day, which contract was worse:
A) The one where we pay a guy like GMJ $50 million to play 5 years?
B) The one where we pay a guy like GMJ $46 million to play 3 years?
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
A
Yeah, the money was ridiculous, but the most effed up thing about the contract was its length
Tape an aspirin on it
Why? Because it tied up a roster spot?
Because it financially hamstrings the team in terms of player mobility for that long?
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
well... BYE
i will NOT miss GMJ “prancing” back to the dugout after one of his 10000000 weak groundouts to 2nd.
IT COULD HAPPEN
by BigBangRobbDawgg on Jan 22, 2010 6:05 PM PST reply actions
Is that a Tombstone reference?
because if it is, it is obscure and awesome.
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
Great trade
It was perhaps one worst signing ever. We will still suffer financially for two more years because of it. But, hopefully we can move on now.
OK, I'm finally over losing Tex. Thanks Kendry.
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