Is Offseason Time on Angels Side?
by Rev Halofan on Dec 10, 2010 1:35 AM PST
in Angels News
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The Tony Reagins-era Angels are infamous for dropping Take-it-or-leave-it-and-we're-leaving contract proposals on players, and just when that strategy might have worked they decided to let the players take their time. They waited too long to see what Carl Crawford would take and Jayson Werth went and upturned this applecart of a market.
No doubt that coming up empty-handed in each free agent pursuit makes them more vulnerable to tougher trade extractions in talks with other teams and higher dollar demands from free agent representatives. This corner they have been painted into looks to get tighter if division rival Texas signs Cliff Lee. Pray for visions of sugarplums instead of visions of a three year Magglio Ordonez deal as Scott Boras shrugs his shoulders to the Reagins led Adrian Beltre overtures.
But is there any advantage in this for them? While Tom Petty sang that "The Waiting is the Hardest Part", but in baseball he might have only been singing about the fans ... Arte Moreno knows his classic rock well enough to know the Mick Jagger role of crooning "Time ... is on My Side" ... and it might be the only tune he can carry with any strength at this juncture.
Folding up the tent and programming the phone to forward calls to voice mail allows the Angels a few advantages:
•Free agents wanting a signing bonus might want the better tax rates that 2010 will deliver than 2011 is likely to. $3 million on December 31, 2010 yields a lot more than if collected on January 1, 2011. At some point, the seller screams "uncle" ... as in "Uncle Sam's cut" in this case...
•Arbitration awards are coming. After monster contracts to Werth and Crawford, and with Lee likely signing before any arbitration figures are exchanged, it is painfully apparent that every player out there will be getting bigger raises than imagined. Waiting to make a trade pays off for the Angels because once team budgets are maxed out on arbitrator-enforced decisions, some decent young players may be available (check out this not-quite-updated list). If the Angels can offer $108 million to Crawford and still be considered "in" on Rafael Soriano and others, a fiscal headache to some middle market club may be just what the Los Angeles Doctor of Anaheim ordered.
•Those Crawford bidding details are not some fan-blog-only secret ... everybody knows that not only are the Angels serious about spending, everybody's seen everything about their finances except Arte's PIN number. Everybody's wife will be turning the nag switch on by this time next week to tell him to call the Angels. That's how it goes... everybody knows. Thanks, ladies!
•Those arbitration deadlines are certainly something the club can wait for. Biding one's time until some GM panics on January 18 after salary figures are exchanged, or February 21 when the hearings are finished, or after pitchers and catchers report.... biding one's time is putting that time on your side. The Angels need to improve but they don't have to make a deal now. It would be nice. Recall that in 2004 they did not sign Vladimir Guerrero until January of that year. And there is no rule against making the needed trade in the middle of Spring Training if need be.
You and I are impatient. But if there is one trait this organization has, it is patience. At this critical juncture, it might be the best bargaining tool of all. Take it away Mick...
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If Arte were shopping,
I wonder how much he would have had to pay for the publicity the Angels received this week.
The Angels aren't a heavy metal band....
BAD publicity for them is not just as good as good publicity….
You mean the countless articles calling the Angels the "LOSERS OF THE WEEK"?
Yeah, he has to just be loving that shit.
Talk about me Good, or talk about me Bad.
Just talk about me.
That might work for narcissists like Julian Assange or Sarah Palin,
But I expect Arte Moreno is breaking mirrors in his hotel room.
Last year he went all Galifianakis on his face and froze out the press for two or three months when the team went into a tailspin.
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt
this bad press is bringing many new fans to the Angels. in fact, I think its done the exact opposite.
a lot of people out there love them some Crawford. if the Halos had signed him, many of them would’ve become Angels fans simply by extension. I doubt there are very many Beltre fans out there willing to do the same.
"If this was America, you'd have a radar gun, and right now it would read 101" - Kenny Powers
by 2pintsofbooze on Dec 10, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
He's not a marketeer. He's a billboard salesman.
It’s a variation on real estate. Third parties do the marketing — he just sells the slots.
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
and how did he get his start in said billboard business?
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Yeah, almost 40 years ago he got an undergrad degree in marketing from a party school.
Since that time, he’s largely been buying up display space in the form of billboards and kiosks and the like. That doesn’t make him Don Draper or a brand management wizard.
If he were a brand management guru, he’d be owning LA right now. The Dodgers are in the weakest position in franchise history regionally, and Arte has failed to capitalize on that. The relative implosion of the Angels — a failure of properly directed investment, player development and imagination — has come at the same time as the implosion of the Dodgers’ brand.
If he’s this grand wizard of marketeering, he’s looking pale behind the sheet right now.
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure he's been
drinking like Don Draper lately
"If this was America, you'd have a radar gun, and right now it would read 101" - Kenny Powers
by 2pintsofbooze on Dec 10, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Hey Turk
You’re veering into Halowoodesque Hyperbole here (albeit minus the obtuse bitter narcissism). Arte took a small outdoor advertising company with many competitors and turned it into an $8 billion powerhouse. I know that isn’t selling clicks on search terms for 45 cents a pop but it IS a little more than you tried to reduce it to.
by Rev Halofan on Dec 10, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, Arte is a hugely successful businessman.
You misunderstand me — I’m not contradicting that at all.
What I’m contradicting is the notion that every convulsion of bad press that the Angels receive is just some small part of Arte’s mad marketing genius at work — and that it all redounds to our favor in some bold masterplot of the Angels empire unfolding.
Nope — sometimes bad press is just bad press, and sometimes brand damage is just brand damage.
(And sometimes a “marketeer” is just a really successful businessman that exploited an industry niche with low-competition by buying low and selling high.)
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
oh okay
Agree.Just hoping they can get out of this swamp.
by Rev Halofan on Dec 10, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
I like how you make it seem so easy to take over LA with a brand
Oh yeah, those 56,000 people every night at Dodger Stadium, they would have come over to Angel Stadium in a minute if Arte was at all… well something effervescent you claim we think he is which you insist he isn’t but you never quite state…
All those USC and UCLA fans and all those LAKERS fans, if only Arte would live up to his hero billing (that you bestow and then take away) it would be so easy for him to to take over L.A. and win 11 million already-sold hearts.
The guy buys Mo Vaughn insurance on Crawford and you blame him for not beheading Jerry Buss.
by Rev Halofan on Dec 10, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
I am pretty sure he knows a little about branding
It was while with Outdoor Systems that Moreno was first able to make his mark as a businessman. He rose to become the company’s president and chief executive officer, and under his leadership, the company’s total profits grew from $500,000 USD to $90 million in less than 10 years.
Have you even thought about what it takes to achieve sales growth like this? I suspect it has more to do with branding than you know. I also suspect the ceo/president has more to do with branding than you know.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Sure, I was the first employee of a start-up that went from 500k to 40M in three years.
Then joined Google when it was it was a few hundred people, and now it has 190B market share. I work on the marketing logic for their display ad targeting systems.
Look, I know where you’re coming from. I argued your side of the case in 2005 and 2006 during the name change. But as I learned more about Arte’s bio, the more I learned that his bones were dug less on the creative and marketing side, and more on the materials and acquisition side — which is smart for him, because that’s where the money is.
But to suggest that any of this translates into selling the Angels brand nationwide and building its audience over time — I don’t see it. It’s two different games.
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough.
That is more than I knew about his ascension inside Outdoor Billboards.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Wow, Turks Teeth, you're smarter than this...
Here’s what I see:
40 years ago he got an undergrad degree in marketing from a party school
Cheap dig at Arte for his education.
he’s largely been buying up display space in the form of billboards and kiosks and the like
Simplify what he does to make it seem childish and/or terribly easy to do.
If he were a brand management guru, he’d be owning LA right now
The old, arbitrary “if this were so” then “that would follow” fallacious argument. Where you set the parameters and the definitions.
Arte has failed to capitalize on that
How so? How would you conclude he has or hasn’t capitalized? Is there evidence to support this either way?
The relative implosion of the Angels
‘Relative’ is a pretty redundant word in this sentence is it not. An implosion is still an implosion. And an over-the-top adjective is still an over-the-top adjective.
a failure of properly directed investment, player development and imagination
A ha! Here we get to the crux of your beef, which the previous posturing detracts from.
I would enjoy reading an argument of how Arte has failed to properly direct his investment (my guess it would start with an attack of the GMj. contract, the bullpen absolutely and perhaps the Torii Hunter contract if you needed more ammunition). I’m sure an argument can be made, especially with regards to the bullpen, but overall, I would say Arte’s money has been invested pretty well.
As per player development, I would also enjoy a critique explaining how our club has performed worse when compared to other organizations with regard to developing talent. We seem to have had our hits and misses just like any other.
And a failure of imagination! Well, if you’re referring to the pitifully low turnout of sequels to Angels in the Outfield then I am with you there. There certainly is a gap in the market…
If he’s this grand wizard of marketeering, he’s looking pale behind the sheet right now.
This is either a Ku Klux Klan reference, a Wizard of Oz reference or simply a ghost reference. I can’t tell which.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 10, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Is this about smarts, or sweets?
That’s an awful lot of legalistic parsing there, Merlin.
I understand that Arte has a lot of sweeties that want to do free advocacy for him — and this organization has absolutely thrummed for a half-decade under him. That’s all fine, and I agree.
But my point was — and it still stands — that every bit of bad press the Angels get is not, as Wumbug suggested, some bold imagineering experiment by Arte to net us publicity (bad or good) — and if it were, it would be a terrible strategy.
And I don’t buy that being a very successful businessman because of one’s shrewdness in one part of an industry necessarily generalizes to all aspects of the industry. Witness how difficult it has been for Bill Gates to develop a decent cloud computing strategy, though he should know all the pieces inside and out.
That’s all I’m saying.
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
Bill Gates is retired.
And he spent his career defending a product licensing model that defies the very definition of cloud computing.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
It didn't hurt him in the end.
But you can tell from interviews that he’d love to be part of the game.
Sorry if I use Bill Gates as a matryoshka figure. It’s synecdoche.
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Nope. It just hurt the rest of us.
If Gates had been expanive enough of a thinker to embrace ubiquitous computing, everything would be cloud-based, utility computing for about 10 years now.
It all went to hell in a hand basket when GWB admin #1 came into office and pulled the plug on the anti-trust suit. The DOJ had Gates so dead to rights that the judge was falling asleep during the trial out of boredom waiting for the foregone conclusion.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
And I agree with your original point, about the bad press ;-)
Just the previous paragraph I felt came out of left field, or you jumped the shark etc etc other phrases of the same ilk.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 10, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
I confess to occasionally shooting arrows...
…just to see what they will hit.
And I admire Arte — but also have the instincts of an idol-breaker. All heroes are flawed.
by Turks Teeth on Dec 10, 2010 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
More often than not your arrows hit true
But I like to keep you on your toes when I can!
Hey, you gave me something to write about instead of responding to the old “what do we do now, Carl Crawford was our saviour etc etc”, so thats definitely a good thing! I was getting bored (am bored) of reading the same thing from posters.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 10, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
Tell Sergey and his boyfirend they are flawed
to their faces, mister Idol Breaker… HA !
by Rev Halofan on Dec 10, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
I suggested that?
some bold imagineering experiment by Arte to net us publicity (bad or good)
I am a professional marketeer. I know of what I speak.
Your right Rev...
Thanks for being the voice of reason, and reminding us all that patience can pay off..
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 3:21 AM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
after all, we waited how long to win a World Series
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 10, 2010 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
HaHa!
I YAWN to your Yawn.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 10, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
That's not a yawn, mate.
This…. :-O is a YAWN.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Really Trying to be Patient....
The time leading up to and including the MLB Winter Meetings has, based on results thus far, represented a loser effort by Arte and crew. In my humble opinion, this might have been their worst public showing since Arte bought the team in April 2003.
Whatever plans Arte, Reagins and Scoscia had going into the offseason have been blown apart, and there’s no signs of life on what – if any – contingency plans exist to mitigate the current mess. Despite Reagin’s absurd comments yesterday about Takahashi, the reality is that signing was not something the front office was fixated on. The Angels likely have been locked in on Crawford for weeks. He was the centerpiece for closing the gap with the Rangers in 2011.
It’s been quoted by ESPN and others that in the end, the Angels raised their offer enough that there was very little financial difference between their bid and the Red Sox’s bid. But by then, Crawford was clearly drawn to everything that Boston had to offer — and the Angels had suddenly become what one Baseball exec called “a team in trouble.” So despite all the hyperbole yesterday associated with the shock of losing out to the Red Sox, the hard reality may be that Arte and Reagins could not close the deal with Crawford for reasons relating to strategy, commitment, and long-term vision. Results matter, and the results were that the Angels could not get it done on Crawford.
A day removed from losing out on Crawford, one could surmise that the contingency plan for the Angels might also be the worst outcome yet: overpaying on players that will not bring the team what Crawford likely would have.
I know I’ll get flamed for saying the following: I really do believe Crawford was a perfect fit for how Scoscia manages the team to play “Angels baseball”. Crawford is a hard-nosed player that will grind it out on every pitch. He is a vocal leader in the clubhouse. Crawford would have been a great compliment to the strengths of Hunter and Morales. He’d have been a big defensive upgrade in left. His speed fit in with the team plays offensively.
It’s a cold Friday morning on the east coast, and not surprisingly the sun still did rise today after yesterday’s fiasco. I’m “over” the Angels misplaying their hand on Crawford. The future is now…so Arte – what’s the plan to improve the Angels? We’re waiting….and we’ll try to be patient.
Nice essay,
but if you’re over it, you fooled me.
You Can't Always Get What You Want
(But if you try sometimes, you might find… You Get What You Need)
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Camera cuts to a smiling mathis
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 10, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Angels
From the Rolling Stones to Leonard Cohen…nice work, Rev.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
I think I know which song jjackflash would list here.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
"I'm a little black woman in a big silver box!"
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Would you guys be willing to take gamble on trading for Jose Reyes & Carlos Beltran?
I know both come with injury concerns and down production but Reyes would solve the leadoff problem and Beltran could answer LF.
Not really sure who
As long as we don’t give up Trout, Chatwood, Richards
Napoli + Jepsen + middle infielder of your choice = Reyes
This would solve all kinds of problems.
Better yet, maybe the Mets are dumb enough to take Mathis instead of Naps.
What would you call that?
The “premium package upgrade”?
by Angelsfan015 on Dec 10, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
Beltran si, Reyes no
I’m fine with a one-year overpay for Beltran in LF, while Trout sharpens his spikes.
I'm good with both at the right price
But I really do like the idea of Beltran, especially in LF taking some of the strain away from playing CF all those years. His plate discipline is still fantastic, and he still has pop!
by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 10, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
But CC was going to be our Brown Sugar
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
I think
It’s possible we lock up Beltre this month…but other than that I can’t help but wonder if this team might be in for a significant make-over through the trade market that could take some time to sort itself out.
1 year of Carlos Beltran to hold place for Trout doesn’t sound like a terrible idea at all to me. If we were willing to give Crawford 18 mil for 6 years, 18.5 for 1 year of an outfielder with great power and plate discipline isnt the WORST idea.
Also….Johnny Damon on a 1 year deal anyone? Leadoff hitting LF with speed and on base skills? Sign me up
RIP Nick Adenhart
I'd take Damon .271/.355/.756 over Rivera .252/.312./721 (last year's stats)
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
Even if for just a year (in the case of Damon)
Damon in left and Beltre at third – that would be nice.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
Like many here have said (even Gammons),
there’s not an obvious, large maket for Beltre.
Like Rev. contends, patience is a virtue here. I think it’s not necessary to bow down to Boras’ normal demands and tactics; I think Beltre can be had at a reasonable price and term….2-3 years @$10-$13MM per year.
If he wants more, I would be willing to let him walk away to wherever.
Might want to look (again) at trading for Heath Bell….Soriano’s not worth the money and agrevation.
Beltre for three years would be remarkable.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 10, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
Rev I am not following your logic on the signing bonuses
What taxation changes make it beneficial to paid paid now?
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
After this week's big news about the continued Bush-Obama tax relief for millionaires...
These guys have nothing to worry about, right?
by Big Easy Halofan on Dec 10, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
So we've heard
If you were a first responder on 9/11 however, the joke’s on you.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Dec 10, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
cuts were deepest in 2010
I believe the proposed legislation goes back to 2004 levels but I may not be precisely recalling that.
by Rev Halofan on Dec 10, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Good Job Angels. Typical
Now go overpay for Beltre or get skunked again this off-season.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
YAWN....
Representing the Angels in Sin City.
by maze88 on Dec 10, 2010 9:00 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
was more of what I was thinking.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 10, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Hahahaha
my feelings aren’t hurt. Nor does this bother me at all. Only for a point of clarity, I never gave the ol’ “Yawn” at any one person’s post. Only at the main post itself. Your Zerve mi amigo.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 10, 2010 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
swerve
past that zerve but don’t hit the curve
by Rev Halofan on Dec 12, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Argh. i don't want to wait even if its for the best.
I almost watched cricket last night to get something baseball-ish
Is time on their side?
I am not so sure some team like the Orioles, Athletics, Tigers, or some unknown won’t swoop on Beltre (especially the Orioles, they have money to spend).
And what arbitration spawned trades are we speaking of here? The only things I saw that seemed potentially viable and helpful were: Ellsbury, Choo, Bautista and Josh Willingham. And of those, Choo is unlikely to be traded (and has question marks), Willingham isn’t worth a trade, and Bautista is intriguing but I think most are skeptical of what he can do. Ellsbury is the best option due to the Crawford deal…but do we want to strike a trade with Boston?
For the most part, I agree with Rev’s assessment which is the Angels should be smart and not overreact. But I have trouble understanding what options we have besides Beltre at this point.
When do we gey
Vote Napoli and Hunter for the 2012 election
by M.Napoli For President in 2012 on Dec 10, 2010 9:50 AM PST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
When do we get Beltre?
Is what I meant
Vote Napoli and Hunter for the 2012 election
by M.Napoli For President in 2012 on Dec 10, 2010 9:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
For whoever said that the Angels offered a
“Hunter like contract, 6/108 for some option to make it close to 7/146” you are insane. What option bumps a contract up 30+ million dollars.
Our offer was not even close to being good enough. The Angels front office is TERRIBLE at this free agent thing and need to fire Stoneman as a special advisor, because his stench is all over this shit.
Im excited to see what mediocre player we overspend for because its apparently better to overpay shitty players rather than good ones.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
the Werth contract
is laughably bad.
I’d call the CC offer, in the wake of Werth’s, simply pathetic.
"If this was America, you'd have a radar gun, and right now it would read 101" - Kenny Powers
by 2pintsofbooze on Dec 10, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Not argument for me
but you have to offer a competitive offer. Who the hell offers a contract 20+ million dollars under current FA value and basically says “BAM, deal with it, you have 48 seconds to decide”
This front office is monumentally disappointing.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
not only that
but they then offer CC the same money and years as Werth, but only if the vesting option is excercised 6 years from now. I could see Crawford’s agent reading that offer and saying to Crawford “WTF??? are they serious?”
"If this was America, you'd have a radar gun, and right now it would read 101" - Kenny Powers
by 2pintsofbooze on Dec 10, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Since the winter meetings are a done deal this is the perfect time for Rev
to post another fan confidence poll, but add a sea level mark and call it the Mathis line and see if the confidence level goes submariner.
Really? You are going to take yourself that seriously? Well I guess someone has to.
"Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice" - George Jackson.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Dec 10, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
All the Major sports networks are calling the Angels the Biggest loser. I really hope they have a big plan. I feel like a kid again when everybody would make fun of me for being an Angels fan..
by ramo on Dec 10, 2010 10:06 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I say we vote to put Reagins on "The Apprentice"
that way we can at least get the satisfaction of Donald Trump and his comb over firing him.
Really? You are going to take yourself that seriously? Well I guess someone has to.
Off-season trAdition
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 10, 2010 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
Of what, sitting on our hands
while other teams get the good talent and we settle for 2nd best?
by Angelsfan015 on Dec 10, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
No, while other teams sign the premier free agents and we sign...
An aging OF/DH who would have been premier 5 years ago.
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 10, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
I think we have all been patient since september.
And were confident we were getting Crawford. We had Hunter working on him at the AllStar game and had Hunter constantly keeping in contact with him.
We were made to believe this was going to be our big spending year. And instead, so far, we’ve come up empty handed.
Ya I know a few days ago we were all practically saying we didn’t want Crawford, until he was really gone and reality sunk in.
We’re all passionate about this team and want to see them win, but right now we all are left with hanging heads wondering when it’ll be our turn to shine again.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 10:26 AM PST via mobile reply actions
And we wouldn't be nearly as mad if he signed with Toronto or the Orioles
but when it comes to our east coast rivals of either the Sux or Skanks then we as fans are full bore pissed off.
Really? You are going to take yourself that seriously? Well I guess someone has to.
yup!...
I think him signing with the Sux is really pouring salt in our wounds. I don’t care if would have signed with ANY other team besides the Skanks.
This one just stings really bad.
I know most of us are probably tired of losing FA’s to the Evil East Coast but I just wish once we could come out on top and steal someone the thought they had in the bag.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 10:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I can see what the Sux are doing and why.
They have to compete with the Evil Empire in Pin Stripes more than we do. There is only one way to unseat them as the dominant East Coast team and that is to make themselves better, which they did.
by Angelsfan015 on Dec 10, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Fuck Patience.
I don’t root for patience. I don’t root for a team always in position for 2 to 3 years from now. I spend my Arte bucks now. I bleed my Halo red now. If I wanted to root for Tomorrowland I would be a Royals fan.
Draft picks and minor league prospects don’t mean shit until they prove they are Tim Salmon instead of Brandon Wood or Jeff Mathis or Dallas MacPherson. Meanwhile, don’t waste my time.
Not getting locked into a Miggy Cabrera contract so that we have the payroll flexibility to not get locked into a Teixeira contract so that we have payroll flexibility to lose out on a Crawford contract don’t mean shit. Not for today. Not for 2012. Not even for those idiots thinking that this leaves us flexible enough to get shut out of a Pujols contract.
The dollar realities of 2010 are well beyond the realities of yesterday, and will fall far short of the realities of tomorrow. Costs will keep going up. Whining about CC dollars in 2010 using 2008 FA payroll math is a loser’s game. $20 mill on the books for a CC in 2017 will not stop Boston from offering a Mike Trout $35 mill a year starting in 2016. But it will stop the Angels from having CC patrol LF for us in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015…
The big dogs are already out on the hunt. We have been on the porch too many consecutive offseasons. Our youngsters are fizzling out, our pros are getting long in the tooth, and those in between are seeing FA just around the corner. Annual revenue has more than doubled over the past 8 years, and franchise value has appreciated through the roof. Meanwhile, payroll has been flat for several years now. “Budget”, my ass.
So Fuck patience. I am not going to the stadium in 2011 so that I can sit there and root for 2013. We aren’t playing for 2013. We are playing for now. It’s a sport. We are ALWAYS playing for now.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
by Stirrups on Dec 10, 2010 10:56 AM PST reply actions 16 recs
We are going to be so good in 3 years
When we pass on another good player to be good in another 3 years.
I cant wait.
Also, IF Pujols hits free agency I cannot wait to see what the Angels offer:
“I think these terms are MORE than reasonable.”
Raegins slides a check across the table with a huge smile
“Uh, Tony, this is a gift certificate to In and Out.”
“BAM! That just happened. Take a minute to gather yourself before you say yes. WEST COAST ONLY BABY! Cant get no double doubles in Beantown.”
“My client wants an actual contract offer”
“You have 10 seconds to decide on my previous offer then I am going to pout and call you a bad person and bad agent through the press”
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
by PhiSlamma on Dec 10, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
a double double sounds bomb right now.
I know whats for lunch!
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 11:19 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
a double double sounds bomb right now.
I know whats for lunch!
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 11:19 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
hell ya
Once pujols gets his 30mil a year then its gonna be a free for all on all first baseman that are close to being as good as him. Then that’ll branch off to every other position and that’s hows salaries keep rising. CC money might be laughable in 5years.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 11:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Holy Shit
You sir are a steely-eyed missile man. I’m with WiHaloFan: you are my hero too.
Your essay should be required reading by Reagins and his minions. You nailed it far better than any of us others who tried to convey a similar message.
Take the weekend off – you earned it.
by mustard_man on Dec 10, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
this is my thought as well
Not getting locked into a Miggy Cabrera contract so that we have the payroll flexibility to not get locked into a Teixeira contract so that we have payroll flexibility to lose out on a Crawford contract don’t mean shit. Not for today. Not for 2012. Not even for those idiots thinking that this leaves us flexible enough to get shut out of a Pujols contract.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
You hit that one out of the park Stirrups.
Rec’d and I totally agree. While I wasn’t a huge fan of signing CC, given the amount of money it would take, there’s no doubt in my mind he would’ve helped improve our team immediately. And the simple fact of the matter is, FA’s are expensive, their not going to be cheaper next off season, or the off season after that. I’m tired of this small market approach. Either pony up the money Arte, or quit claiming to “spend what it takes to compete”. At this point I wouldn’t be shocked to see us sign Kouzmanoff at third, seeing Jermaine Dye in left, and Tony Reagins beaming happily while shouting at the top of his lungs, “nailed it!”
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Damn Fucking Straight!!!!
FINALLY someone said it. lol
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
by desecrator09 on Dec 11, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
thats good
get it all out of your system. this is yet another part of Reagins “process”
"If this was America, you'd have a radar gun, and right now it would read 101" - Kenny Powers
reply fail
"If this was America, you'd have a radar gun, and right now it would read 101" - Kenny Powers
by 2pintsofbooze on Dec 10, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
its been a subliminal message all along! !
And we never noticed!
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 11:21 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
yeah it's one of those fun to sung type songs
until you read the damn lyrics. Reagins= buttercup, heretofore. by no means am i giving up on this offseason but the crawford fiasco was a kick to the nads.
It's a 9 inning game!
I can’t help to remember how we lost out on Konerko and the world came to and end. Somehow we ended up with Tex ,lost him and the world came to and end.. Now we have Morales. (Kind of worked out I would say) Many were saying how ridiculous the expected contract to CC was going to be before he went to boston. Let people say what they want in the offseason, last year Seattle was the darling of the winter meetings. At least we aren’t Tampa Bay! or Oakland or Minnesota or …… …..
I can't help but remember...
…how we lost out on Konerko and were left without a big bat to pair with Vlad while we waited for Morales to grow.
…how we ended up with Tex for a few weeks, then lost him, and still had no big bat to pair with Vlad while we waited for Morales to grow.
…how we finally waited long enough for Morales to grow, but it was too late to pair with any Vlad, who was tool old and whom we let go anyway.
And then Morales went down after a couple of months. And we ended looking up at Texas. Just like Seattle…and Oakland…and Tampa Bay.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
Another thought...
Timing is everything. Had the Angels stepped up and paid Konerko more than market they would have had a real shot at another World Series or two before Vladdy faded/left and Kendry would now be a patrolling left field instead of Rivera. Does Crawford alone guarantee a trip to the post season, no….but the Angels had big issues before Kendry went down and this team isn’t likely to see the the post season without major upgrades. I know that hindsight is 20/20 but there is a huge disparity between what the Angels say they are going to do and how far they are actually willing to go.
with two more championships under our belt.
We really would be running LA and the West Coast Baseball right now. That may have given us the leverage to get Crawford and add another two…
Ahhh shoulda, coulda, woulda……
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 1:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
ANGELS
I dont really like paying 120 million to anyone Im sorry I love Tori Hunter but he isnt worth 18 million now!—Thats just too damn much money!—Id Love to get Beltre-We really dont have a 3B and I just dont see any out there like Beltre-I just worry about him after he signs-he tends to back of a little bit-Though I hope Im wrong about that—We should gp after both Beltre and Soriano more than any of the others because we need those 2 the most—We can trade for a LF or still put Napoli at 1B and move Morales to LF-What the hell is wrong with that?—35 to 40 hrs from both of them! I think Trumbo and Trout will be good THIS year also—-Suffice to say get Beltre and Soriano—Who do we have there?
Beltre 12 million for 5 years would get him and Soriano would go for 7 million for 3 years
thats 19 million -much better than Lee 22 million-Crawford 21 million & Werth 17 million——-If the Angels will do that they will be ahead in money and be a better team at the same time—
I know how you feel but,
Not many FAs really are worth the weight of their contract near the end, especially when they’re in their late 30’s.
But if we ever want to sign top FAs then that’s the bullet we’re going to have to bite, simple as that.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 1:39 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I always hate it when
Sports writers or espn always predicts us to the the FA scraps but now I’m starting to think they’re all right.
Lately I wonder why do we even go after the top FA’s when we know the yankees or red sox are in on them too and we also know we’re not going to out bid them.
Idk I guess I’m just losing faith on Tony, Arte and the FO. Ya we know how to make great trades but for them to get everybody pumped about just lose out on top FAs year after year just pisses me off..
Give Us Something To Jump and Scream about ANGELS! Not just piss and moan about when we’re left with nothing.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 1:36 PM PST via mobile reply actions
ANGELS AGAIN
TRY THIS LINE-UP
C—Conger
1B—Napoli
2B—Kendrick
SS—Aybar
3B—BELTRE
LF-Morales
CF—Peter
RF-Hunter
DH— Abreu
Bench—Wilson-Calypso-Rivera-Isturis
5 guys with 20 or more HRs
All can hit 300
5 t0 6 with 90 runs & 90 RBIs
3 with 30 SBs
Starters—Weaver-Santana-Haren-Pinero-Kazmir
Bullpen—Soriano-Rodney-Walden-Takahshi-Palmer-Bulger-Bell
5 good starters—A much better pen
And during the season alot happens—at least 5 pitchers can be called up right now for the pen-The only real question is in the starting 5
Zack Granicke would be a great add but I think he will cost the farm right now— I just dont see him worth 20 miliion later on or the draft picks and players it would take to get him
Start 2011 with the Roster I just laid out and the ANGELS will win and win BIG!
if we had
Adrian Gonzalez I’d kick Morales’ ass to the out field. He can’t be worse then Abroo.
Meaning if we had a sufficient replacement at 1st id move him to the outfield, but not for Napoli.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 2:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
it was a clean break
And he’s had close to a year to let it heal.
Shouldn’t be that big of a deal since he’s still in his 20s, it should be 100% healed by now and stronger then before considering that’s what happens when you break a bone.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 3:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
wheres Trumbo??
Don’t. Tell me he’s not worth a shot in left.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Dec 10, 2010 2:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The Stones song that works best for me regarding this issue goes like this:
“I can’t get no…Satisfaction”
“When the man comes on the radio
about some bullshit iformation
how we’re getting Crawford and Soriano
like to tell him where he CAN go
I can’t GET NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
by Raaddad on Dec 10, 2010 2:37 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Angels Commitment
This organization has slowly dismantled a 2002 Champion into an also ran. Don’t talk to me about raising ticket prices to sign the players. You don’t get into the Baseball business to make a profit and if that’s what you think then don’t buy it. They have the right manager, and I think he may be the best in baseball but I don’t see him enjoying this run of mediocre talent that he is presented with. If this team would have just gone the extra mile and resigned its major stars a few years ago they wouldn’t be looking at these high prices for average free agents. I’ve been a fan since they moved to southern cal but it was a long road to the top buts it real fast returning to the bottom. Don’t take us there Arte!
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