Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Why Our Subtractions Will Matter More Than Our Additions



As of right now, the Angels aren't looking too bad.

Really.

Next season Angels fans will get a power boost in a healthy Kendry Morales, and a speed/defensive boost with a full season of Peter Bourjos. The bullpen will be revamped with new Angels Scott Downs and Hisanori Takahashi, not to mention a full season of Michael Kohn and Jordan Walden.

What most people will look at is how the Angels finished last season, and then look at the additions they have made so far this offseason and make a prediction for 2011.

However, I think it could be our subtractions that will matter the most in 2011.

What was your first reaction last offseason when you heard the Angels signed Hideki Matsui? I recall Angels fans being somewhat split on the move. Some thought it was a great move signing the reigning World Series MVP. Others thought he wasn't a good fit, and found themselves scratching their heads trying to figure out why we did it.

I was that last guy, and I still am. He wasn't a fit for the team, and didn't fit the Angels mold. He was added to an already crowded outfield and an already crowded DH candidacy. He didn't fit positionally or stylistically. He couldn't play defense, which seemed to fit the description of all our outfielders not named Torii Hunter. Worst of all, he couldn't run. In fact, he was worse than Vlad when he filled that very similar role. Matsui clogged the bases. Overall, he was the exact opposite of the type of player Mike Scioscia loves. The only positive about him was his batters box offense, which is good until he gets out of the batters box. Then you're screwed.

The key to the Angels' success lies in their ability to manufacture runs. When the Angels are playing aggressive baseball and using their speed, they win ball games. A power bat is always nice, but the Angels' biggest need this offseason is more speed,and our subtraction of Matsui's anti-speed game may prove the most beneficial for the Angels in 2011.

Getting rid of Matsui may be the best thing the Angels could have done this offseason.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

Comment 45 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Huh?

Having Matsui playing for the A’s helps the Angels…how? Does his loss suddenly plug the gaping holes the Angels have in LF and 3B? Does it prevent Mathis from catching ANY games in 2011?

The more likely outcome is that Matsui has a resurgance in Oakland and makes us all go through the same experience when Vlad was putting up very respectable numbers for Texas last season.

With the CURRENT roster the Angels have today, and given the improvements the A’s made thus far in the offseason, the Angels are most likely looking at 3rd place in the American League West in 2011.

by mustard_man on Dec 28, 2010 4:37 AM PST reply actions  

Resurgance? Unlikely

Especially in a pitcher’s park like Oakland has. I think Matsui’s final line was about what we could’ve expected, and I expect a slight dip next year. The line about the outfield defense is accurate. LF is still a weakness, but CF and RF are strong, and that’s more than we could say most of last year.

R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel

by Kernel on Dec 28, 2010 7:51 AM PST reply actions  

Let me get this straight

Mathis, Kazmir and Rodney are still on the roster, and yet it’s Matsui’s absence that is going to benefit the team?

by dmhead on Dec 28, 2010 8:15 AM PST reply actions  

I'm hoping the math problem is not yet finished, and that the Angels will still be doing some "subtracting."

Those subtractions should include one “premium” player, one or two slap-hitting infielders, and a couple redundant relief pitchers.

A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.

by angelslogic on Dec 28, 2010 9:15 AM PST reply actions  

So, by your Math(is)....

We let one catcher go who is a “premium” waste of roster and bench space, let least one infielder Collapse another team’s chances at winning, Let another infielder give a "Wood"en performance elsewhere, and let another team be eaten by their own Rod(ney)?

In place of those departing we add a Catcher that has the potential to be a King Conger on the field and in the batter’s box, cull some dead Wood from the infield tree and put at least one of the bum steers in the bullpen out to pasture in favor of some young studs who will bring some new blood to the mix.

I can’t say i disagree. In fact, I say let’s do it.

by Angelsfan015 on Dec 28, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Well said.

A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.

by angelslogic on Dec 28, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Watching Matsui get hit after hit after hit through the 2009 playoffs and World Series

my only thought was the Angels should sign this guy to be our DH in 2010. It happened. Vladimir Guerrero was departing after his miserable injury ridden season. I thought Matsui would be a major upgrade. His batting average, home runs, and runs batted in were well above league average and he posted a 1.9 WAR in 2010. This is what you can expect an hope for from a reasonably priced free agent DH.

Scioscia has been quoted as saying the Angels got what they expected over the season with Matsui even though he got off to a rather slow start for some fans’ taste. I think this is why Matsui didn’t catch on that well with fans in general. Few casual fans are willing to take in account an older player’s age and natural regression particularly DH’s who often are older experienced players. People expected MVP performance every day from Matsui when really he is just human. This is why Scioscia prefers not to have a regular DH but to rotate outfielders through the spot instead.

Peter Bourjos is faster than anyone on your team.

by 44FAN on Dec 28, 2010 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

I will admit that I was concerned about his lack of mobility, and wasn't sure it was a good signing...

But I also remember saying that Matsui was really the one guy in the MFY lineup who scared the hell out of me.

Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch

by red floyd on Dec 28, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I was in total agreement with this sentiment
Watching Matsui get hit after hit after hit through the 2009 playoffs and World Series my only thought was the Angels should sign this guy to be our DH in 2010

Too bad—like many components of our team this year—it just didn’t work out as well as we hoped . . . But disastrous performances by Wood, Premium, Rodney, early Fuentes, and Aybar, and the injury to Kowbell, were far greater factors in our demise.

by Raaddad on Dec 28, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

So
you’re bitching about someone who produced about 2 WAR last year, but ignore those guys that actually contributed negative wins to this team. Yea i see that logic.

by phoenix15 on Dec 28, 2010 9:33 AM PST reply actions  

I don't get this post.

The headline uses the term subtractions, then the post only refers to one subtraction. And that subtraction is a player that contributed positively to the team.

Somehow we’re better off getting rid of one of the better players on last year’s team (not that I’m against the move) while Jeff Mathis is getting a raise to play in at least 50% of next years games?

Warning: The message above may or may not contain sarcasm. Read and interpret at your own risk.

by snowhor on Dec 28, 2010 9:34 AM PST reply actions  

I don't agree with this post at all

The problems were Erick Aybar, Juan Rivera, Abreu, Mathis, Rodney, Fuentes, Kazmir all being terrible.

Last I checked, Fuentes is the only subtraction there. Matsui was actually a pretty nice piece…

RIP Nick Adenhart

by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 28, 2010 9:55 AM PST reply actions  

I wouldn't even say Fuentes was horrible.

The Angels biggest problems was Aybar wasn’t a lead off hitter, Brandon Wood didn’t produce, and Kendry Morales getting hurt. Had one of those things hadn’t happen, the Angels might have won the division.

Morales will be back and hopefully 100%

Aybar shouldn’t be leading off, hopefully it is LF Bobby Abreu

Callapso will be our every day Third Baseman.

Juan Rivera will be our 4th Outfielder. Rodney will probably lose his job. Kazmir will only pitch every 5th day.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at First2Third.net

by Jay Cal on Dec 28, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree

I think that we are headed for 4th place. Our vaunted rotation keeps us in games that will be lost by our bullpen and lack of offense. Write it down. All baseball teams lose 33% of their games and win 33% of their games. It’s the other 33% that matter, that differentiates the winners from the losers. I see us spitting the bit on the majority of that 33%, unless we get Beltre, and upgrade our DH and outfield hitting.

Rory Markas. Alex Chilton. 2010, you suck!

by LazorkoRules on Dec 28, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

maybe
if Seattle transferred to the NL West maybe.

by phoenix15 on Dec 28, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

The bullpen got a hell of a lot better

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Dec 28, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Yup.

The man is not wrong on that point.

by Angelsfan015 on Dec 28, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

The loss of Matsui leaves an enormous hole in LF which will hurt the Angels big time

Matsui was worth 1.9 WAR last season as the primary DH with spot starts in the field. With the loss of Matsui the assumption is that Abreu will slide over to the DH role, as he should, but last season Abreu was worth 2.2 WAR overall with a -8.3 UZR while playing the field. Account for less playing time in the field, knowing scioscia will probably use Abreu for a few starts throughout the season, and I think its safe to say that Abreu will be worth about 2.7 WAR in 2011, although that is a very conservative estimate. The impact of this however, is that the Angels then have to play one of Rivera/Willits, both of whom were essentially league average. What this all comes down to is with the loss of Matsui the Angels may gain a few RAR from the DH spot but will lose almost 2 WAR from the outfield.

by Kretin on Dec 28, 2010 11:54 AM PST reply actions  

Guys don't even trip!

I had a dream we signed Beltre to 4 years 45 million; I was laughing my ass off! Hopefully it is a sign (although i know there is 0 chance it will be that cheap)

by HalosBiggestFan on Dec 28, 2010 12:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

I had a dream we traded to get Beltre

From the Arizona Diamondbacks for some reason. Dreams are weird.

"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher

by ryanfea on Dec 28, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I had a dream involving Penelope Cruz

she was holding my bat
(see, it was baseball related afterall ;)

by Raaddad on Dec 28, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I think there is a long line of males

That have had that dream.

"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher

by ryanfea on Dec 28, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

and She looks sooooo nice

in the next Pirates of the Carribean
just sayin

by Raaddad on Dec 28, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I had a dream too.

The Rays FO woke up New Years Day and said “Time for a change!” Then they got real interested in Mark Trumbo and traded Longoria to us for a package of Trumbo, Mathis (Maddon wanted a piece of that action) and Rodney.

Sometimes I wish Rex would be quiet

by gitchogritchoffmypetis on Dec 28, 2010 1:53 PM PST reply actions  

That's no dream, that's an acid trip.

This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Dec 28, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I had that exact same dream not two weeks ago

Strange.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Dec 28, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

It's true

That Morales back a full year along with full years of Bourjos, Haren, Kohn, Walden, and having Downs and Takahashi will help but, another huuge bat sandwiched between Morales and Hunter would give Morales protection along with taking some pressure off if Torii from batting 4th. That’s what Matsui was supposed to do but ended up failing in the middle of the season (of course along with Morales breaking his ankle.) I honestly think just with Beltre we’ll be set to at least compete in the West

by Morales8 on Dec 28, 2010 2:12 PM PST reply actions  

Subtraction(S)? Plural?

You only mention 1 subtraction: Matsui. And although I think letting him go will end up being a good thing, we haven’t really replaced him yet. So, it remains to be seen whether it was a good move or not.

I’ll attempt to finish your post for you. I’ll go ahead and say that it will be a good subtraction to not resign Scot Shields, and it was a good move to trade Fuentes. I think Shields will spend the rest of his career being almost back to form, unless of course he retires. Unloading Fuentes gets rid of one of our unreliable pitchers, although between him, Jepsen, and Rodney, he’s the least of three evils.

So, in a sense, our bullpen is indeed going to be better just by subtracting those guys, even if we hadn’t added downs and what’s his nuts. Maybe we’ll blow fewer games in the later innings. But just losing Matsui certainly doesn’t make us better.

The only way the Angels could have gotten better just by subtracting a player would have been if that player was Jeff Mathis.

Trust the Deception

by Rally Manatee on Dec 28, 2010 3:04 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe Mathis will havce a year like last year

and not play for stretches of time and Conger can prove just why he should be in there and not Premium.

Not to wish ill will on Premium, but one can conjecture, right?

by Angelsfan015 on Dec 28, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

we
could have a catcher have defensive abilities of Mauer and the hitting power of Pujols and Mathis will still get more playing time, why, only God knows.

by phoenix15 on Dec 28, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Great.

Now every time I hear “Takahashi”, my brains’s gonna go “What’s His Nuts”.

"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck

by LAASurfin on Dec 29, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Last week

I had a dream that the halos signed Albert pujols to a massive contract but you never know dreams might come true.

Big Daddy J

by Halo fann 2002 on Dec 28, 2010 10:57 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Beltre is needed

End Brandon Wood for good.

I love this team: Angels Baseball 2010

by AngelsBaseball on Dec 29, 2010 8:16 AM PST reply actions  

Clogging the bases

Good offense is like good plumbing. Everyone knows it’s much easier to score runs when the bases are nice and clean. Baserunners can only get in the way.

by Suboptimal on Dec 29, 2010 7:07 PM PST reply actions  

Addition by Subtraction

I have to disagree with this Post. Matsui is a professional hitter who looks at pitches,goes to all fields,has a tremendous pedigree of knowing how to win, played for a small contract,and put up solid numbers. He and Damon nearly carried NY to the 2008 Series victory. He is with Oakland and he will have 18 chances to exact revenge.I would have let Ortiz and his 12 million go to pick up Matsui for 4.25 .As for the Angel’s way,that went out when they let Figgins, Eckstein,Cabrera,Frankie Rodriquez, and others go.Some retired ,but those days are gone and your system dried up. Only 4 quality players in recent years.The only way now, is free agency.There were enough out there to produce a winner,but they did nothing except Scott Downs who IS a very good signing.They still could get Soriano and could be very tough at the end of games.

by Robert57 on Jan 12, 2011 10:13 PM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Halos Heaven is the Number #1 Angels Fan Blog according to QUANTCAST. Our Angels Fan Site is YOUR Angels Fan Community!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Summation of the Angels 2012 season so far
Sinatra2_small
Sign the petition to end "Buttercup"
Angelsbathroom_small
JCVW: Vernon Wells Has Been a Consistent .222 Hitter Since 2010

Recent FanPosts

Morales-mainx-large_small
Albert Pujols – A Man of Faith
Kendry_morales_small
The Most Frightening Word in Baseball: "Rebuilding"
Avatar_small
By The Numbers: MLB Starting Pitchers
Small
Angel Games Boring?
Angelmike_small
Terry Smith. You make the call.
Nick_small
Are the Angels the anti-Rangers?
Wrigley_field_small
A Serious top 5 of why Pujols is below the Mathis line.
Angelmike_small
The Top Ten Reasons Albert Pujols is hitting below 200

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Leaders of the Free World

4323_1105939621665_1622022962_290465_5300842_n_small Rev Halofan

Mostinterstingman_small cupie

Tn96_small WiHaloFan

Whammy10_small blast21dave

Fearless Crew

N1222371_8709_small scottnak

Halos2_small Stirrups

Anarangels_small Mayheminthehood

Cant-tell-if-trolling-or-just-very-stupid_small linkbruin

Avatar_small rghan

Alternate-club-logo-no-highlight1_small RexTookMyStash

Celebrity Chefs

306996053509_0_0_small PhiSlamma

Angelsbathroom_small mattwelch

Angels_ywc_album_small yeswecan

34_adenhart_small RallyMonkey5

Userpic-105-100x100_small Suboptimal

The_prior_art_cover_small Turks Teeth