In need of a lefty reliever
by angelspopbottles on Feb 15, 2010 8:47 PM PST
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PrintNot one lefty reliever in the angels bullpen besides Brian Fuentes, whats up with that? At least bring up Trevor Reckling to fill that role that Darren Oliver had established. Imagine if David Ortiz is up to the plate in a 3-3 ballgame in the eighth inning, who you gonna call on? Scot Shields?? Hell, NO!. Or at least sign one of these guys:
John Bale (36)
Joe Beimel (32)
Alan Embree (40)
Ron Mahay (39)
Glendon Rusch (35)
Ron Villone (40)
Jamie Walker (38)
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Beimel would be the best option I suppose
What is wrong with Scott Shields? Scott Shields could handle Ortiz pretty well I think
ortiz numbers off shields
3 of ortiz’s 4 hits off of shields are home runs and he has only faced him 18 times
by angelspopbottles on Feb 15, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
ortiz is exposed
he sucks now.
Besides, lefty or righty doesn’t matter as long as whoever is on the mound can handle lefties. In fact, Shields was that guy (when healthy). I’d rather have a healthy Shields on the mound than any one of those FA lefties. Besides, if Ortiz was the stud you think he is, we don’t need an inexperienced Reckling getting torched, screwing up his confidence and development and panning out…
www.13stoploss.com
Scot*
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
by angels4adam on Feb 15, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
none of those FA relievers are very good...
i’d much rather have shields/bulger/jepsen face ortiz than any of those guys. and why are we worrying about ortiz? he is no longer the biggest left handed threat in the league. we don’t need any of those guys and i don’t want to see reckling in the pen.
We're still gonna fly flags
Off Topic:
I like boobs.
It's Always Somethin'
by Funke5ive on Feb 15, 2010 10:06 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
same
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
by angels4adam on Feb 15, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
( o ) ( o )
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
by angels4adam on Feb 16, 2010 12:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If they fit in a bra - yes; in a bro - Hell NO!
"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."
by Quad Fin Rider on Feb 15, 2010 10:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Where is the "none of the above" option?
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
by angels4adam on Feb 15, 2010 10:46 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
I’d rather take my chances with what we got than overspend on a mediocre pitcher who stinks. I know they’re righties, but think Esteban Yan or Justin Speier.
by BrownLunchSack on Feb 16, 2010 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
new to HH here
but a sweet ass beats a nice rack anyday
Mama raised me right: to hate those self-righteous bastards from back east that talk funny and those noisy blue assholes next door.
What you meant to say was
“Reply fail”
;)
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Feb 16, 2010 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
Warning for groupies: Before Pat Burrell: (_!_) After Pat Burrell: (_O_)
by XYZ123 on Feb 16, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
+69
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
Your feline is envious
Just Another Halo Victory / Rory Markas 1955 - 2010
by LazorkoRules on Feb 16, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions
holy shit...
comment of the century.
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Feb 16, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
Seeing how Shields....
has giving up three home runs to Ortiz in 18 AB’s against Scot, then no, that wouldn’t be a good idea.
However, seeing how he’s batting .222 in 9 appearances against Rodney with only one home-run, your odds might run a little better. Of course, against Fuentes he is 1 for 4…so while the odds are smaller, you might go with Brian.
On the other hand he is only 1 for 3 against Jepsen and Brian Stokes but Kevin has a K against him.
The only pitcher he doesnt have a hit against in our BP is Bulger but he’s also only faced him once.
Let's make it "another halo victory" for Rory...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Feb 16, 2010 8:27 AM PST reply actions
Bean him
That’s what I would do.
1) He’s fat and slow, so he’s not gonna go anywhere. The only threat he presents on the basepaths is the threat of causing 1st Base to implode upon itself, which would confuse the shit out of Kendry and the umpire.
2) Who do the Red Sox have to protect him? Scot Shields can strike them out. If Shields is unavailable get Jepsen or Stokes to do it.
3) He’s the only douchebag to go on record saying you should be suspended for a year or banned for life or whatever he said and then get caught for steroids and not subsequently ban himself. So, he deserves it.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
Clutch = on PEDS
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
by hauldog on Feb 16, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't buy it.
Scot Shields’ career BAA vs LHB: .218
Darren Oliver’s career BAA vs LHB: .279
Why are people getting so hyped up about this just because David Ortiz is mentioned? Shields pisses on lefties as a hobby. I’m not worried.
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
by angels4adam on Feb 16, 2010 10:26 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Unless its a close game against a good team
Then he just pisses on himself.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Well, as long as he's still pissing for us
Then we’re all good.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Feb 16, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The entire idea is a waste of pixels
First of all, it is idiocy to retard the development of a starter like Reckling just because he throws with his left hand and someone decided that the team is doomed without a lefty in the pen. After all, who ever heard of a team without a lefty in the pen—aside from the Angels, 2003-2005 seasons, of course.
In 2006, the team succumbed to the rank and file opinion that it couldn’t succeed without a lefty, and thus signed JC Romero. We all know how that simple move guaranteed wins for the team.
Once Romero was escorted to the County line, the team signed Oliver in 2007—and what we saw in Oliver was that he was more effective against righties than lefties.
So what is the point? To have a left-handed pitcher in the pen for the sake of having one? Or to provide the best relief corps possible?
With Bulger pitching as effectively against lefties as righties, why don’t we lay this tired old canard to rest and simply play ball?
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Feb 16, 2010 10:58 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
So.... you are saying we should ONLY have lefties in the pen
I completely agree!
DOWN WITH RIGHTY
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
I am sad now.
For now I’ll have to resubmit my resume for a different position, or learn to become a southpaw by default.
And look at what color I bleed.
by eyespy on Feb 16, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That should be our entire pitching staff I tell you!
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
You're not Lasorda, that's for sure
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Feb 16, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks GK. As always you say what I want to say with civility and tact.
I’d just scream STFU and look at the recent past! The Halos thrived w/o a lefty in the pen for years!!!
That’s why you are you and I am…
wel, me.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
Civility and tact?
I’d better call the Dr. I must be under the weather.
Thanks, though.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Feb 16, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
www.instantrimshot.com
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
You are mostly correct...
I agree with all of the points you make, but the implication that Oliver is like most lefty relievers is incorrect. Oliver throughout his career has been equally effective against lefties and righties. The majority of lefty relievers in the majors fare much better against left-handed hitters.
Fuentes, for example, has been a lot better against lefties in his career than he has been against righties (although his splits aren’t as dramatic as many left-handed relievers). That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good closer (although last year, he was very mediocre), but it would be nice if the Angels used him in a more flexible role. If you have a lefty who dominates lefties and is merely ok against righties, then why not accentuate the strength?
I don’t think it’s worth it to get a lefty reliever just for the sake of having one. Would much rather have five good righties than 4 good ones and a horrible lefty. But if you are going to use Fuentes as a closer, then a good LOOGY would definitely be an asset.
Go back and look at his 2007 season
I agree with all of the points you make, but the implication that Oliver is like most lefty relievers is incorrect. Oliver throughout his career has been equally effective against lefties and righties. The majority of lefty relievers in the majors fare much better against left-handed hitters.
Oliver was more effective against righties than lefties. In fact, left-handed bats hit him pretty well that year. That was my point: We went and got a lefty in Romero in 2006 and he was lit up repeatedly, then got a lefty in Oliver in 2007 and he was less effective against the very batters he was presumably signed to get out.
Meanwhile, in 2003-2005, we had no lefties and boasted one of the best bullpens in baseball each of those three seasons. All this goes to illustrate the complete lack of mental horsepower behind lobbying for a lefty because of a perceived need to simply have one in residence.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Feb 17, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with everything you said
But I still think that a lefty who is good at getting other lefties out would be nice to have. Always good to be able to play the match-ups late in games. There are very very good situational lefties out there and just because we’ve done well without them in the past doesn’t mean one wouldn’t help us now. I definitely agree that you don’t sign a bad left handed reliever just to say you have one though. I can’t say that I would be in favor of adding anybody on the proposed list in the post.
Honestly, I think we already have a good situational lefty in Fuentes, but we are probably gonna let him close again. I guess that’s fine, especially if he re-gains his form, but I think they get way better production out of him in a situational lefty role.
Of course it's "nice to have"
It is nice to have any pitcher who can get batters out, period.
The purpose of my response was in regard to the knee-jerk request in the original post that we needed a lefty because we didn’t have one. What I showed was that we didn’t have a lefty in the pen in 2003 through 2005 and boasted one of the finest bullpens in all of MLB. Then we went ahead in 2006 and signed a premium lefty and got a guy who couldn’t get out a lefty batter, then signed another lefty and got a guy who (in 2007) was nails against righties but not so much against lefties—which, presumably, was his mission.
If you look at the poll attached to the original post, it offered the options of taking a rising star starter and switching him to irregular work out of the bullpen as the LOOGY (the surest way to keep him from developing properly as a starter—see “Chamberlain, Joba” for another example), or going to the discard pile and giving a precious spot on the roster to a guy simply because he throws with his left hand.
It isn’t important whether or not we have a lefty in the pen. What is essential is that we have pitchers who can bet batters out, regardless of which arm they use to deliver the pitch. Having a lefty for the sake of having one is a loser’s game.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Feb 18, 2010 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
I would not hesitate to ...
bring in Fuentes in the 8th inning to face the key lefties if they come to bat in the 8th, and take my chances with Shields/Rodney/Jepsen/whomever in the 9th, assuming Fuentes doesn’t choke and can keep the game close.
First Angels Home Game: September 04, 1969
Yeah, considering Fuentes is going to see a lot of 8th inning anyway
I think 8th-9th inning duties will be split between Fuentes & two of Jepsen/Rodney/Shields, with the order depending on matchups as much as anything else.
Honestly, whenever I think of an Angel left hander facing Ortiz
I have a sick flashback to Game 3 2004 ALDS: Washburn vs. Ortiz
Funny you mention Washburn
Because HE would actually be a nice lefty killer out of the bullpen.
Last three years BA vs Left Handed Hitters:
2007 = .213
2008 = .252
2009 = .178
This was done in 584 Plate Appearances. He has a K/BB ratio is 125/35 vs. lefties over that span as well.
And his OPS+ vs lefties:
2007 = 68
2008 = 92
2009 = 51 (!)
No, he’ll never go for a bullpen gig. But at his age, maybe he should consider it.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Feb 17, 2010 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
Are you kidding?
Washburn had a fantastic year as a starter last season. He added a new pitch and ran with it. I’m just hoping that he doesn’t end up back in Seattle, but I know that’s inevitable.
"Baseball Is Life, Life Is Baseball!" -Tim Salmon
No, I'm not kidding!!
He finished the year horribly in Detroit. He’s 35. He doesn’t have a team yet, either, so apparently you and Scott Boras are the only two people who thought that he had a fantastic year as a starter.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Feb 17, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
Beimel or Mahay
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Feb 19, 2010 10:37 PM PST reply actions
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