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Around SBN: Nevin Shapiro Vows To Bring Down Miami

Sean Rodriguez

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the dude is absolutely annihilating opposing pitching so far in ST. Yes, I know it's just ST but even so, the numbers are just absolutely insane:

 

Here is his slash line is 27 AB's:

 

.407/.484/.1074 with 5 HRs and 11 RBIs.

 

Yes, you read that correctly. 1.074 is his SLG, not his OPS. He has more total bases (29), than AB's (27). That means his OPS is 1.558. Albert who?

 

To reiterate, I'm aware that ST numbers should be taken with a grain of salt but if this is a sign of things to come in the near but not necessarily immediate future, it makes me wonder if trading him for Kazmir wasn't such a great move.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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Said the off-duty soldier...

…after trading the family jewels for syphilitic chancres.

(I kid, I kid the cliche-mongers!)

by Turks Teeth on Mar 18, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I had to prove I didn't have syphilis to get my work permit in Thailand

Odd that they test for a disease that is, for the most part, very treatable and that one is more likely to contract after they get here.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Mar 18, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

We needed a pitcher...

(…he says, trying to remain rational and avoid head-butting the keyboard with disappointment)

I see red people

by The Limey on Mar 17, 2010 2:42 AM PDT reply actions  

look at it this way

S-Rod may very well outperform Howie-K, but he will not outperform Howie-K and Kaz

by Rev Halofan on Mar 17, 2010 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is true...

Plus he gets hot in the Spring. Lets see what he can do in the playoffs… If I remember right Howie-K hit pretty darn well and led us to a victory over the Yanks with 3 runs….

"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana

by pendletonmike on Mar 17, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kendrick has hit a cool .196 over 46 ABs in the postseason.

With two RBIs in 13 games (one of which, yes, he turned up a decent performance in).

Not dissing HK here — small samples and all that — just correcting the record.

(And for the record, btw, Sean Rodriguez has not been particularly “hot” in the last few spring trainings. This year is a bit of a breakout for him.)

by Turks Teeth on Mar 18, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I figured it was between S-Rod and Wood and always liked Sean Rod. much more.

never have liked wood as much.

Co-Leader of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD

by TheAngelsColts on Mar 18, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sean Rodriguez or Sean Rodriquez...

The dude has already had two fanposts in the span of 12 days lamenting his awesome spring training 2010:
http://www.halosheaven.com/2010/3/5/1358446/sean-rodriquez

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Mar 17, 2010 6:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Braking the Rules again

there is a reason they exist

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 17, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Blah blah blah

It’s not even on the front page anymore. We can’t assume everyone is on here every friggin’ day.

by dmhead on Mar 17, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

If its not on the front page, its fine. Sean could have fallen off a cliff, (or in this case, got even better) so its relevant.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Mar 17, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

I for one

didn’t see the other post. So I find this very informative. Oh, and I am on here just about every day.

I'm wearing a "Markas" patch on my sleeve this season.

by Rally Manatee on Mar 17, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't you think some should check that though before posting a new fanpost that pushes others off the front page?

The previous posts weren’t that long ago, so they would have been easy to find had the poster bothered to look.

by snowhor on Mar 17, 2010 11:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

+1 and my point exactly...

The text could have been written this way:

As pointed out 12 days ago by user xxx in fanpost linked HERE, Sean Rodriguez is really ripping the cover off the ball in 2010’s version of Grapefruit League baseball.

Sorry for my blah, blah, blah.

As you were.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Mar 18, 2010 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna post a post in 12 days about S-Rod too..

Don’t worry though I will link….

Now stuck in Colorado Springs

by stuck in Romania on Mar 18, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why don't you just do an AL West Preview

and then include how the Angels are so much weaker now that they lost Sean Rodriguez. The research has already been done twice here for you.

;P

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Mar 19, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

What, is he available?

Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch

by red floyd on Mar 19, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

500 million for 10 years

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 19, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but even with that spring line, you know where he was headed when spring training was over...

Salt Lake City.

He wasnt going to get a shot unless someone gets hurt and goes out for an extended period. And even then, he would have been behind itzturis on the depth chart. Proven Major league talent > unproven minor league prospects.

by Balls and Strikes on Mar 17, 2010 8:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Oh god

worst trade ever.

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 17, 2010 8:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Yawn

Post his slash line May 1st

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Mar 17, 2010 9:31 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Robb “Spring Training Superstar” Quinlan says hi

by Higz on Mar 17, 2010 9:56 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Also rec'd

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Mar 17, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Amen.

I remember Arias well. Ugh,

OK, I'm finally over losing Tex. Thanks Kendry.

by 10 27 02 on Mar 18, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe Sean could have been our #3 starter this year

This trade looks bad when Sean becomes an everyday 2nd baseman who plays above average baseball.

I was leery of it for a while too, but he’s just a prospect until he does it in the bigs.

RIP Nick Adenhart

by ihearhowie2.0 on Mar 17, 2010 10:21 AM PDT reply actions  

can we just let this go? please??

it’s not like we can do anything about it anymore, i mean it has been like half a year or something since this trade went down. it’s just spring training, damn.

who the fuck cares anymore? seriously.

"come on, eileen."

by retrohalo on Mar 17, 2010 11:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Nasty

Megan Fox Thumbs?

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 17, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Damn

Love those thumbs
and what their attached to
(remember that Seinfeld skit where he’s dating the really hot woman who has man hands—a classic)

by Raaddad on Mar 17, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Man hands

Women need little hands for little things

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 17, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like the Burger King guy?

Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch

by red floyd on Mar 17, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only if you have bigger boobs

Hers are very disappointing

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 17, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought that it was just one thumb, not both.

That would make her only half as bad as you think.

"God watches over drunks and third baseman." - the Immortal Leo Durocher, predicting the coming of Brandon Wood...

by Stirrups on Mar 17, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's sad that of everything there

You notice thumbs first. I was aware of weird fetishes, but damn.

by linkbruin on Mar 17, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still hot

LOOK AT THIS BADASS THUMB

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Mar 17, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

sexy

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 17, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

A lot of people have weird fetishes.

Eddie Murphy, for example, freely admits to having a thing for women who have perfect feet.

Oh, and he also likes men.

Just Another Halo Victory / Rory Markas 1955 - 2010

by LazorkoRules on Mar 18, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like men

oh you meen like that…never mind

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Mar 18, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

There isn't a team in the AL (other than the Angels)

That I would rather see SRod play. If the Rays are good, they can chip away at the Yanks and Red Sox, which is obviously a good thing for the Halos. Trades are supposed to benefit both teams, and this looks like a good and fair swap.

1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com

by Slasher52 on Mar 17, 2010 2:17 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Exactly, he's doing deep cover work for the Angels

It’s like those guys who left the US and joined the RAF to fight in the Battle of Britain before we entered WWII.

I bet S-Rod calls Soth everyday to report on the progress the Rays make in the battle against the Yankees and Red Sox.

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Mar 17, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

and we get him back in FA

I’m beginning to see the devious nature of the Ninja

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Mar 18, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

S-Rod, Wood, Sandoval

One of them had to go. We can’t just sit on the prospects because they have awesome spring trainings.

Besides, Kazmir’s ERA with the Angels was outstanding (not to mention how well he works with Butcher). With Boston and New York’s pitching staff as well as Seattle’s 1-2 punch, I feel a thousand times better with Kazmir in Angel red than S-Rod in Salt Lake.

What would our staff look like without him?

Wow Mike, you sure know a lot about laundry.

by Teixeira Who? on Mar 17, 2010 8:45 PM PDT reply actions  

What would our team be like if we didnt make this trade??

Think about what our team would be like if we didn’t do this trade. We would have no Lackey, No Kaz…Thus, two extra spots in our starting rotation that would be filled with Joel Pineiro…and….uh….Sean O’Sullivan or Matty Palmer??

I hope S-Rod makes the opening day roster. The guy deserves it. He just didnt fit into the plans for the Angels.

Halos & Clips...must have something to do with the color red and jaded pasts...

by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Mar 17, 2010 10:01 PM PDT reply actions  

WELL SAID

We’d be all Palmer Versus SOS arguing and stuff…

by Rev Halofan on Mar 17, 2010 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

unless, of course

we used him or Howie to pry Doc from Toronto.

just saying

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Mar 18, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

We did offer Aybar

Wow Mike, you sure know a lot about laundry.

by Teixeira Who? on Mar 18, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

true

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Mar 18, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Source?

I never read anything from a credible source indicating that Aybar was actually offered as part of a trade package.

Not saying it didn’t happen – just that I missed any substantiation.

"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

by LAASurfin on Mar 18, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

none of that stuff was ever confirmed nor was it ever stated that Toronto asked for it… we might have offered it but hey if i offer you eight bucks for your Beemr whatcha gonna do?

by Rev Halofan on Mar 18, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna never mention that the beemer is stolen.

Then I’m gonna take the eight bucks, buy smokes and a soda, and hope I never run into you again.

FREE BRANDON WOOD!

by halofan4life on Mar 18, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

An article about Reagins liking our pitching depth said we offered

Saunders
Aybar
Bourjos

I am looking for it now

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Mar 19, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

we offered a lot

I would have offered Granderson too

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 19, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

now you're going too far

everyone knows that having Halladay and Granderson would’ve given us the World Series in a cup.

with a sprinkle of World Cup thrown in for flavor.

by TheKingfish on Mar 25, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is probably what he saw

I can not find it and IIRC it used the word “rumored”

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Mar 19, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think why this is hard for peeps (me too)

Is that as others have said, we needed a pitcher…so we got one. Can’t get something without giving up something.

But no one expected (at least I didn’t see anyone guess his name at the time) S-Rod to be the PTBNL.

And what makes it hard is whenever you hear a bunch about an up-and-coming youngin’ like we did about S-Rod, you look forward to something to cheer for one day. If he does as well during the season as he is in ST, you want to be happy for him but it’s a little bit of a bitter pill because you were hoping the time investment in him would payoff while he was wearing an Angels logo.

I think by the ASG we’ll know more about how the trade fared. Last year Kaz already paid divideds (minus the p-offs).

by RedFog on Mar 17, 2010 11:41 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm not going to complain

For once the Angels’ FO traded a prospect who still had value for something we needed, rather than keeping them until their value dissipated and then letting them go to free agency.

I wish S-Rod well. I was sorry to see him go. But the best trades are those in which both teams benefit, because such trades encourage further trades down the road.

by rspencer on Mar 17, 2010 11:53 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm not all that upset with the trade.

Just wanted to see other people’s opinions.

I was disappointed when I heard he was the one traded for Kazmir and I guess what I’m saying is that his performance in ST hasn’t done anything to make me feel better….but I understand why the FO pulled the trigger and I agree we needed the pitching.

No one can argue our rotation got much better when Kaz arrived since he was great for us. Hopefully that will continue onto this season.

"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana

by Chzburger Jones on Mar 18, 2010 5:10 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Maybe this will help
I was disappointed when I heard he was the one traded for Kazmir and I guess what I’m saying is that his performance in ST hasn’t done anything to make me feel better….

The offensive star of the Angels’ 2009 camp (and there were plenty of hot hitters in camp last Spring) was Matt Brown, who hit .469 with 19 RBI and won the Fred Haney award.

He then disappeared for the remainder of 2009 when he was returned to SLC.

A great Spring means the hitter had a great Spring, but nothing more. Beating yourself up by reading the reports from the Rays’ camp is like stalking an ex-girlfriend. Time to let go and embrace the team you do have.

"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason

by George Kaplan on Mar 18, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you're going to continue to cry over the S-Rod trade based on spring numbers

Then you’re also required to shit your pants in excitement that, based on those same numbers, Kendrick is the new Utley, Morales the new Pujols, and Napoli the new Piazza.

Oh, and Izturis is the new Ichiro.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 19, 2010 2:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Joe Maddon knew what he was doing......

I wasn’t crazy about Kazmir trade at the time. I felt we went for a “lefty” more than anything else. I don’t see Kazmir as a difference maker in the PS the way Lackey is. Lately we have been settling for second or third best (Pineiro instead of Lackey etc).

I think the Rays will have a big season ( I can see them in the post season again this year), and, Sean Rodriquez may be a big part of that. In fairness, let’s see what Kazmir can do over a full season with us. But with that being said I didn’t really like it then and I don’t like it now….

by Jack Frost on Mar 20, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

OK, I'll play
I don’t see Kazmir as a difference maker in the PS the way Lackey is. Lately we have been settling for second or third best (Pineiro instead of Lackey etc).

In what parallel universe would Pineiro be considered a replacement for John Lackey in anyone’s rotation? He wasn’t signed to be Lackey’s replacement, he was signed to provide a better back-of-the-rotation choice over Palmer, Bell, O’Sullivan, et al.

Lackey wasn’t allowed to go because the Angels felt Pineiro was the superior pitcher, he was allowed to go:

A) Because it was feel Weaver is ready to step his game up
B) Because Santana and Saunders figure to have better seasons in 2010 than in 2009
C) Because the front office has faith that Butcher can work with Kazmir to bring him back to his former self
and
D) Because no sentient being thinks Lackey will be deserving of that deal in the final (and perhaps penultimate) year of the contract, even though he will be paid like an ace. Why overpay when there are options available?

"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason

by George Kaplan on Mar 20, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

and in what parallel universe is John Lackey an “ACE of a rotation?” Enough of this already. The guy led the league in ugly; while respectful of his deeds here in the Halo uni, it is time to give it up. He’s gone.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Mar 20, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wasn't implying that Pineiro was signed as "Lackey's replacement", but when you

add Pineiro and subtract Lackey that is essentially what you’re doing. It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t the official explanation or the party line. Arte saved money by not signing Lackey and bringing in Pineiro, plain and simple. Look, I love Weaver, and I too think he is ready to “step-up” but that is a Strawman argument. What does Weaver have to do with Lackey? We had BOTH in the rotation last season, now we only have one. Is Weaver going to Win 30 games? I don’t think so. That is pretty much what he’d have to do to maintain his own level and make up for the loss of Lackey’s production.

Also, as I’ve said many times this team should ultimately be judged on it’s post season performance. Simply winning the West and being unceremoniously booted from the playoffs in the ALDS is no longer satisfactory. With that in mind, I think Lackey is a huge loss. A top of the rotation of Lackey, Weaver, Santana (or possible Kazmir or Santana) looks alot better than Weaver, Santana, Kazmir ( or Saunders). Essentially, you have lost your Ace. Assuming Weaver “steps-up”, which I think he very well could by the way, then you still need either Santana to bounce back from his injury big or Saunders to raise his game in order to replace Weaver.

What you’ve done is create more question marks and more uncertaintly. The same goes with Aybar as a potential lead-off man: could he “step-up” and like Figgy last year hit .290 with a .400 OBP and steal a bunch of bases and kick ass? Maybe. But that is a big question mark. And in the meantime you weaken the bottom of our batting order by removing Aybar. Unless of course you think that yet another person will “step-up” and replace Aybar’s production down there. You just lower your odds by going with someone who is essentially unproven in a particular role. And you do it primarily to save money. That is my point.

by Jack Frost on Mar 20, 2010 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

maybe

the angels knew they cold not sign lackey so traded for kaz

FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool

by DAD OF VLAD on Mar 21, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, I see
Wasn’t implying that Pineiro was signed as “Lackey’s replacement”, but when you add Pineiro and subtract Lackey that is essentially what you’re doing. It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t the official explanation or the party line. Arte saved money by not signing Lackey and bringing in Pineiro, plain and simple.

So you’re not implying it, you’re saying it outright. OK, fair enough.

Further, it isn’t that Moreno “saved money by not signing Lackey”, he declined to spend money on a stupid contract. We’ll never know, but if Lackey opted to stay for a one-year deal, I imagine Moreno might have paid him more for one season that he’s earning on a averaged basis on the Red Sox deal. The point isn’t that he declined to spend money on Lackey—there was a contract offer made in the Fall of 2008, after all, and another offer made in this offseason prior to the Red Sox deal—but that he declined to write a contract that Lackey doesn’t figure to fulfill.

If the Red Sox can absorb 1.5 seasons out of 5 of Lackey on the DL or being ineffective while paying him top-of-the-rotation money, then God bless ’em. That shows what NESN brings to the party.

I work from the standpoint that there are individuals who see the players in a way you and I do not: The coaching staff. It seems clear that Butcher believes that Weaver is ready to move his game up a notch. We may be seeing part of that strategy, as Weaver is working on a two-seam fastball to increase his GB rate and reduce the FB rate, which should translate into fewer HR and sac flies given up.

If you compare Weaver with Lackey in the last two seasons (I think that is a fair comparison, because it captures Lackey within what should be his prime and Weaver in his most recent seasons as a maturing pitcher), you’ll see that Weaver has matched Lackey in ERA, ERA+ and WHIP; Weaver is higher in SO/9 but Lackey has the better K:BB ratio due to his lower walk totals, which Weaver can attain with more experience.

But a key difference: Weaver averaged 6 more starts per season than Lackey (31.5 vs 25.5) over 2008 and 2009; a prime component of that might be the 4 year age difference between the two of them. I don’t see the trainer’s reports, but one might objectively look at the last two seasons and wonder if Lackey is beginning to break down. If that is a legitimate concern, would it be smart to sign him to a guaranteed 5 years at $15.25M a year in years 2-5, a deal which takes him through his age 36 when he’s shown signs of wear already?

Please. Enough of the nonsense about “Moreno’s cheap and he replaced Lackey in Pineiro”. It bears no more logic than writing “Moreno replaced Lackey with Matsui”. That Angels are simply positioning themselves for not just 2010 but for the seasons which follow, and locking up one of the rotation spots with a pitcher who doesn’t figure to be a productive starter in 2013 or 2014 is idiotic.

Branch Rickey once said it is better to trade a player one season too soon than one season too late, and while Rickey never saw free agency in baseball, the principle still applies with whether or not to lock a player in for a long-term deal. The Red Sox are going to own a very expensive load of ugly in the final season or two of that deal.

"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason

by George Kaplan on Mar 21, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

It seems we differ in our respective desires for this team.

I want the Angels to win another World Championship. I really wanted it last year, primarily because I feel our current ‘window’, to win one is rapidly closing. Once it is closed it could be another 3-5 years before we have a roster that is really in a position to win it all. That is the main reason I am bemoaning the loss of Figgins and Lackey. Rosters that are too young don’t often win it all — and it seems by moving out the vets in favor of the younger guys that we are moving in that direction. Matsui is probably only here for one year and Abreu will soon be gone. I fear a “youth movement” is coming, and I think that equates with having to wait for gratification.

It seems that you on the other hand are thinking more long term. You have talked about the long term health of the franchise (especially in regards to finances and Moreno’s spending). If one takes the position that the long term health of the franchise is more important that “winning it all” right now, then what you are saying makes alot of sense and your defense of Moreno is valid. However, Arte has always talked about his desire to win in the present; that’s why the Angels philosophy this off-season has been upsetting to me. If you can be frugal and win , then great. That is a real trick in today’s sports climate however. With teams like the Red Sox and Phillies and Yankees out there it is going to take a FULL commitment to winning in order to compete for a World Series title.

In summary, I think we’re looking at the team through different lenses/glasses: I am looking out at our current roster and thinking, “How is this team going to compete with New York, Boston and Philadelphia now, this season?” In your defense of Arte you seem to be thinking about how this team will remain competitive for years to come. I don’t think either approach is the “right” one. I think we just have different priorities as fans. And I guess there is nothing wrong with that. We can agree to disagree.

by Jack Frost on Mar 21, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps I don't fully understand your underlying premise

I get the youth vs vets aspect. But in 2008 we set Aybar in the role of SS and said goodbye to the vet Cabrera, but I don’t think anyone would want to undo that move. We wanted the vet Teixeira—and traded the more youthful Kotchman to get him—but the replacement by Morales has, so far, been a successful one.

And on and on…we replaced Percival with Frankie, Kennedy with Kendrick, Bengie with the two-headed Napoli/Mathis, Washburn and Byrd with Saunders and Weaver.

True, not all moves have worked out favorably (when do they ever work out 100% of the time?) but the team has done a good job of moving out veterans before their skill erosion was a drag on the team as a whole.

Again, I would bet the proverbial left nut that Moreno would have gladly paid Lackey $18M/yr for two seasons, but clearly not the average $16M/yr for five. If it was our money and budget to maintain, I doubt any of us would have ponied up that kind of money with a long-range view. The team is anticipating guys like Reckling, Walden, Chatwood and others emerging over the next five seasons, and dragging the corpse of Lackey’s career around for $15.25M in 2014 (or sooner) doesn’t seem like a good use of financial resources.

Finally, I know the desire to win it all, but teams that bet it all on black might win in that season, but most often fare horribly the next, and sometimes for years to come. I’d rather have the Angels than the White Sox, Indians or Astros as my model of how to build a winning team; I’d rather have a team which was in a good position to go all the way every season than one which was a lock to do well one season, and go off the cliff in the next.

"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason

by George Kaplan on Mar 21, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

So basically

your scared of change & what may happen

R.I.P. King Ad-Rock #34

by Seik1177 on Mar 21, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

On reading Kaplan's first comment

I said, “Damn! Makes a hell of a lot of sense”. Then on reading Frost’s comment I said, “Damn! Makes a hell of a lot more sense”. Then on reading Kaplan’s retort to Frost I said, “Damn! I like that”. And so on. In the end, as persuasive as Frost’s writing is, Kaplan, you have won me over. (Unless, of course Frost, you have something more to say?) Damn fine writing, boys!

by agent_99 on Mar 21, 2010 8:16 PM PDT reply actions  

If I would add anything it would be that "going for it" one season so to speak, does

not mean that you necessarily “go off the cliff” the next season. If we had signed Lackey, even for something close to what he got in Boston, I don’t think that means in 2011 the Angels would “go off the cliff.” If anything if they had keep Figgins and Lackey they’d be looking at a legitimate shot to win it all both now in 2010, and in 2011. Perhaps even in 2012 (if we’re all still here!) Joking aside, I think the Lackey signing potentially looks bad in the 4th or 5th year. Even Kaplan admits that it is only the last year or two of that deal that worries him. So by that logic we’d have had a playoff proven stud at the top of our rotation for three more years if we had kept him.

by Jack Frost on Mar 22, 2010 9:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Yes, the first two, and possibly the third year of the deal should be fine. The problem is he's getting paid for 5 years.

And Lackey’s certainly no guarantee that we’ll win anything. He’s been on the team since 2002, and how many World Series has the team won since he’s been on the team? One.

But keeping Lackey for 5 years to have a chance to win it all is a huge gamble for the Angels. More positive scenario, we win another World Series and Lackey’s contract becomes 15 million dollars for a mid rotation starter in Years 4 and 5.
But if we don’t win in that 3 year window, where Lackey is likely to still be worth the money? Well we got a few more division championships out of it, which you already said you aren’t satisfied with. But now in years 4 and 5 of Lackey’s contract he is a mid rotation starter whose 15 million dollar contract is impacting the team’s ability to sign other players who could help the team win it all.

by ~MMP~ on Mar 23, 2010 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, I understand all that....

but that is a gamble I’d be willing to take. Put it this way: how much extra money would you put into payroll to have a 1 in 3 chance of winning the World Series? I say it that way because had we kept Lackey and Figgins instead of going with an asinine signing like Fernando Rodney we would have been one of the best three teams in all of baseball (at least by my estimation).

You’re right that it wouldn’t guarantee anything, but don’t you prefer a 1 in 3 shot to a 1 in 8 or 1 in 10 shot?

by Jack Frost on Mar 23, 2010 9:56 AM PDT reply actions  

You keep making the signings zero-sum events
I say it that way because had we kept Lackey and Figgins instead of going with an asinine signing like Fernando Rodney we would have been one of the best three teams in all of baseball (at least by my estimation).

Pineiro didn’t replace Lackey. Rodney didn’t replace Figgins and Lackey. One doesn’t have much to do with the other, besides total payroll. Certainly neither Figgins nor Lackey was projected to work out of the bullpen in 2010. Rodney wasn’t signed for his OBP. They’re all different players with different roles, and the Angels made a determination that Lackey and Figgins could be replaced from within.

The Angels, using the input of their coaching staff, evidently determined that Figgins wouldn’t be worth what he was asking in contract cost and duration. The staff made the same determination of Lackey. Offers were made to both players by the Angels, and other teams valued these players more highly. Each chose to go elsewhere.

The commitment to Rodney is for two years, not the four sought by Figgins nor the five by Lackey. Guys like Rodney have eminent trade value as well, and having a closer in reserve can make for an intriguing bargaining chip at the trade deadline of ’10 or ’11.

Rodney’s deal for two years costs 2/3 what Lackey will make in 2010 alone, and is $1M more than what Figgins will make this season. Furthermore, Rodney was signed weeks after both Figgins and Lackey had gone on to their new teams; his signing didn’t preclude a deal for either of the other two players.

Conflating the signing of Rodney with the departures of Figgins and Lackey is a real non-starter. No pun intended, of course.

"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason

by George Kaplan on Mar 23, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't mean to conflate the two if that's how it sounded. Rather, the point I was

attempting to make was that we went out and got a player that I don’t really see as having any value other than as an insurance policy. And if that is the case he’s an expensive insurance policy!

The Rodney signing was almost universally booed and criticized here on Halos Heaven when it first went down. I know Rev. was totally against it — I think the Rev. had it right. I doubt he (Rodney) would have “eminent trade value” as a relief pitcher with an ERA upwards of 4.00!

The point is not that Rodney is “replacing” Figgins or Lackey. The point is that we failed to hold on to key assets in order to save Arte some money (because we ostensibly have “cheaper alternatives” within the organization). We do have alternatives -and they are cheaper - they just aren’t GOOD ones! The point is not about who is replacing who, it is about getting rid of expensive good players and bringing in cheaper crappy ones !

by Jack Frost on Mar 23, 2010 5:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Hmmm...
The point is not that Rodney is "replacing" Figgins or Lackey. The point is that we failed to hold on to key assets in order to save Arte some money (because we ostensibly have "cheaper alternatives" within the organization). We do have alternatives -and they are cheaper – they just aren’t GOOD ones! The point is not about who is replacing who, it is about getting rid of expensive good players and bringing in cheaper crappy ones !

Isn’t the point of playing the season to determine whether a decision was good or bad? Simply pontificating that a decision was poor, in absence of any evidence to support that statement, doesn’t really make a lot of sense.

We need to see how Weaver, Kazmir, Santana, Saunders and Pineiro do in 2010 (and 2011) before we decide that letting Lackey go was a mistake.

"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason

by George Kaplan on Mar 26, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

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