Shocker: Dave Cameron Thinks it Might Soon Be Time for Angels to "Rebuild"

not Cameron’s. His obvious bias pokes numerous holes in his logic.

the naysayer slayer

I would much rather be the team with an aging outfield than a team with an aging infield or starting staff.

I feel as if this year is a real “make it or break it” year for our young guys.

We will see if Weaver is a true ace or not…if Saundo can continue succeed despite not having dominate stuff. If Ervin will always be inconsistent or permanently begin to pitch like he has shown previous in 2008. Can Kaz regain his success and ever learn to pitch past the 6th inning? Will Napoli ever learn how to become a good defensive catcher? Is Kowbell for real? Can Mathis ever hit?

There are so many questions going into this year and yes, we have similar questions every year. It just feels like this is the year that all our players are going to show their true colors…i.e. who they will be for the rest of their major league career.

What Dave Cameron doesn’t get is, ever since Mike Scioscia took over the Halos, we have been in perpetual rebuild mode for the past eight.

Matt. I’m glad you like to write, because I like read what you do.

They were an all-around good tea. And winning the WS usually comes down to some god brakes in the process (like the break the Yanks last year with the weather in NY when he traveled there for the ALCS).

Beyond that, the Angels have shown for 5-6 years running that they beat projections. That has to do with Scioscia’s management style. He has found ways to eke out 5-10 more wins a year above projections.

If there’s any worries, it’s that other teams (like the Mariners) have studied Scioscia’s game strategy and are beginning to co-opt his srtategies.

We don’t get SportsCenter airtime anyway.

perception of the Angels as an organization and a team so far off clearly demonstrates why they always come back later and call the Angels over-achieving and “lucky.” They are just making excuses for themselves, their ignorance, and not doing their homework. Thanks Matt for taking the time to write this out.

At OF and DH are almost as old as the Angels:

Griffey 40
Ichiro 36
Bradley 32
Gutierrez 27

Comes out to half a year older on average for the Angels.

I looked at this article a day or two ago and thought it was pretty much complete crap.

My favorite crap comment of the off-season, though, has to be BP proclaiming how right they were about the Angels “only” making it to the postseason again while they crowed about how great it was that Boston/New York/whatever had made it there yet again—in addition to, my real favorite of the favorite, crowing about how they were right in that Joe Saunders went to “Regression City!!!!!!!!” in 2009, all while completely ignoring that he was pitching injured for the majority of the season.

Yeah. Awesome.

to denigrate, discredit and dethrone the Halos, and it’s not just Mariner fans. Many prominent sports people are frankly just sick of us and our Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim (the name is part of the problem) and want someone (anyone) else to rise out of the western waste land, where the games come on past their freaking bedtime and they really don’t care anyway cause it’s not the glorious East, and replace us:
 “You freaking Angels just ef off and die.”
 We are the Rodney Dangerfield of sports: We get no f***in’ respect.

Under the most rigorously observed conditions of skill, age, environment, statistical rules and other variables, a ballplayer will perform as he damn well pleases.

And ours have been performing for the best part of a decade, long my it continue.

I like analysts and commentators blinding themselves to our success, the less focus there is on what we do well and how we do it, the more our strategic advantages stays an advantage. Good write up Matt, cheers for outlining the age thing. It’s a real pet peeve of mine. We’re young goddamit!

Who gives a shit what Dave Cameron thinks?

His obvious bias towards the Mariners aside (no crime in that, of course), the paucity of his knowledge of the Angels is inexcusable given the fact that he has had the opportunity to see the team in the AL West for all these years.

Yes, the Mariners have Felix and (eventually) Lee in their rotation, and then…who, exactly?

Yes, the Mariners have Bradley, who just informed the world he is NOT a power hitter and that the fans need to adjust their expectations. Without a legitimate power bat in the lineup, who is going to drive in the runs with the big blast?

And while it is possible the Angels don’t have a “franchise player”, does that mean that a talented, balanced Angels team won’t still put the Mariners in third place (behind the Rangers) in the AL West in 2010?

Cameron states he had the Angels ranked highest, but then says:

Seattle is about equal to the Angels in present talent, but take the lead in future talent. They have better near major league ready players than the Angels do, and they have a better management team in place.

This tidbit is based on what? One off season? Talk to me in ten years after this management team has gathered 900 wins.

That’s like Glenn Beck saying at least he’s not as biased as Rush Limbaugh.

We will get respect. Until then these people will continue talking sh**t, no matter how many division titles we win. Go Angels 2010!

Yeah, folks that’s not a typo. Apparently Milton is the #4 hitter. I certainly don’t have any ill will for Casey, but Casey Kotchman as a #3 hitter is a total joke. I almost feel bad for the guy, as if they are setting him up to fail.

Computers and bad info go into them, so they are easily ignored.
Write ups like this however, sting a little bit more. They are detailed and bring up apparent issues within an organization.
We as fans hold firm in our beliefs and our perceptions of the team, but to outsiders who know little (i.e. everyone and every sports news writer and broadcaster east of Texas -which is all of them) they take this as valuable info.
These are the kind of write ups that lead to us getting low projections year after year. Most East Coast writers and broadcasters never really study the Angels they are too busy studying the Yankees 10th bullpen spot or something. So write ups like Dave Cameron’s gets only a glancing over and then taken as fact instead of any research being done.
Thanks Matt Welch for at least getting a well written and summarized retort out there in the Angels defense.

The man never comes up with anything new or surprising. What a shocker, a Mariners fan who’s predicted the demise of the Angels just like the rest of Angels haters since 2005. When fools like Cameron come out with this stuff, it just stings that much more when the Angels do as they do every year in since 2002/03, win.

And the M’s have a very weak and over rated system. They simply aren’t developing good major league position players and are developing solid middle inning relievers like it is going out of style. They also took a hit when they traded their best prospect outside of Ackley and then some for Cliff Lee.

The Rangers have the best upper minor league system in baseball. This is mostly due to years and years of losing bad. The Rangers have so much potential, but believe me when I say they are still at least 3 years away from reaching that potential. They are good now but they can become Tampa Bay circa 2008 good. The problem, they won’t be cheap and do not have the payroll flexibility of the Mariners or Angels.

The Angels minor league system is vastly under rated. There isn’t another system in baseball that produces higher quality arms as frequently as the Angels do. Even more arbitrary minor league arms in our system such as SOS, Trevor Bell, Anthony Ortega, would be regarded as very solid arms in other systems, back end of the rotation starters. The Angels have so many good pitchers that they don’t need backend starters, they can get away with using VERY HIGH upside arms like Reckling, Walden, Richards, SKaggs, Mesa-Martinez as back end starters. The Angels also produce mediocre position players constantly, but because of the team’s success, rarely get sure thing prospects from high school or college. Trout was a tremendous blessing, we took a gamble of Grichuk. Our scouting has proved to be superior because we’re able to get guys like Kendrick, Bourjos etc… in middle rounds.

how did Fangraphs recruit the guy who did the movie Avatar to write for them? That’s AWESOME!

The thing is, in the Scioscia era, the Angels organization has seemed to focus on drafting/developing for every position BUT outfielders.We’ve developed an excess of catchers, starting pitchers, relief pitchers, corner infielders, and especially middle infielders. Off the top of my head, former Angel farm hands on other teams rosters include the Molina Brothers, Kotchmann, Figgins, Callaspo, Kennedy, Eckstein, Sean Rodriguez, Glaus, Lackey, Schoenweis, Ramon Ortiz, K-Rod, and Jenks.

I can’t think of one outfielder developed by the Angels on another MLB roster with the exception of Garrett Anderson and Jim Edmonds, both signed in the early to mid-90’s.

Until last year’s draft, the Angels appeared to have a long term strategy of getting outfielders/DH’s from the free agent market. And that explains the signings of Vlad, Guillen, Finley, Matthews, Hunter, Matsui, Abreu, Alphonso, and the trade for Rivera. Since they’re free agents, of course they’re relatively “…long in the tooth”.

As Mr. Welch (and others) have pointed out so well, the balance of the team is of young to moderate age. I think we will do just fine this year. There’s no need to re-build.

I would say Angels management agrees with Cameron. There are an awful lot of murals of guys on the order of Don Baylor, Rod Carew, Chuck Finley, Nolan Ryan, etc., but not one of the current team. (There are some at the very bottom of the stadium, though.)

It really looks like management is hedging their bets, at least from a marketing standpoint.

Not enough emphasis was placed on team financial profiles. I would have incorporated the team’s finances, along with the blend of current talent, future talent, and management, in order to rank MLB teams.

Unfortunately, MLB teams do not have to disclose audited financial statements. However, Forbes provides a yearly assessment of the value of each MLB franchise. The 2010 valuations aren’t ready yet, but here is the link to the 2009 valuations.

This is really fantastic stuff, as Forbes discusses team value (including a valuation breakdown), revenues, payroll, debt, etc.
Here is the top 10 (based on current Team Value)

1) Yankees
2) Mets
3) Red Sox
4) Dodgers
5) Cubs
6) Angels
7) Phillies
8) Cardinals
9) Giants
10) White Sox

I’m not suggesting that teams be ranked by finances alone. But it’s a very important aspect with regards to achieving and maintaining on-field success.