Sean Rodriquez
by J WEAV Express on Mar 5, 2010 11:01 AM PST
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Has just hit his third homer of spring, in three games... I know its only the third game of ST i know, But was this a mistake? Should we have giving up howie instead? The kid is showing some serious pop early into the season! hope he continues it!
I wish we could have dealt someone else even brandon wood instead of sean... sean could play anywhere on that field and just seemed liked he has figured out hitting at another level! Prove us wrong brandon dont let sean show you up!!!
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Been watching him this spring and will enjoy watching him through the season.
It’s great to have a team to root for on the East Coast too. Joe Maddon is just a classic personality, and now the Rays are chockfull of ex-Halo prospects.
Personally, I always liked S-Rod over Wood as the Angels farmhand most likely to make an impact. This season, we’ll finally get to see. I liked the Kazmir trade until I found out Rodriguez was the PTBNL.
I was never crazy about dealing him
especially for what Kazmir’s numbers were/contract is. We gave up a guy who was crushing the minor leagues for a guy who is getting paid quite a bit to give up a lot of runs and get hurt.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad we have Kazmir…but we definitely overpaid IMO
RIP Nick Adenhart
I was very upset
When I found out SeanRod was the PTBNL. Considering we’re paying 20 million to Kazmir, we should not have had to give up any premium prospect. Rodriguez would be a great option to battle for the 3B job, or take a backup spot for 2010 and eventually settle into an outfield spot, maybe with Matsui one and done and Abreu at DH for 2011.
The HK-47 hitting droid is the finest line drive machine ever built
by RallyMonkey5 on Mar 5, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Wasn't crazy about including him either, but you can't exactly offer Quinlan or GMJ.
As the Pope once said, “you’ve got to spend money to make money.”
Hey, wait a minute!
The pope didn’t say that!
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 5, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Kendrick has better defense
We also do not need someone who could potentially strikeout 150+ times alongside Wood who could do the same.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
No way
Sean Rodriguez clearly is a better defensive second baseman than Howie Kendrick. The Brandon Wood Fan Club here at Halos Heaven will take a serious hit if Sean Rodriguez turns out to be better than Woodie. This is early March. SRod and BWood will both begin the season at 0-for-0 and will go from there.
Remember
Joe Maddon had a say too. It may well have been a case that they were demanding S-Rod. We will just have to see how it works out.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
This is spring training.
Call me in August.
by BruinHalo on Mar 5, 2010 11:38 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
cry when we don't trade
cry when we do trade.
gotta love democracy.
by Rev Halofan on Mar 5, 2010 11:41 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
TB will trade him
They have place to play him he will end up being traded to the Yankees or Boston.
It was a bad trade.
Sean please come back to us….we still love you. :(
FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool
A couple things
1) Doesn’t Sean Rodriguez do well every spring? So what? Lots of guys do that never become worth a damn. Not that Sean is one of them, but uh…he’s not Harmon Killebrew either.
2) The purpose of developing a farm system is to not only regularly restock the big leagues, but to create positions of depth so you can trade for it when you have positions of need. When you have Brandon Wood, Maicer Izturis, Erick Aybar, Chone Figgins (at the time), Sean Rodriguez, Matt Brown, and (gulp) Robb Quinlan potentially capable of playing the left side of the infield, you’re well advised to deal one or some of them away if it can land you a strong starter.
3) Our site has thus far grossly undervalued Kazmir. He JUST turned 26 at the end of January. In a brief time for us last year, he put up a 1.73 ERA in six starts, going more than 6 frames per game. Is he ever going to be a complete game specialist? No. But he still has ace upside and can easily replicate what a healthy Lackey would have given us…at a lesser cost, and with the same injury risk. If he brings it together for us, we have 200 innings of 3.50 or under pitching for us this year.
And did it cost us? Yes, it did. We lost a very good prospect…but not one without flaws of his own. He may have been blocked in Anaheim, but he never lit pitching on fire during the regular season opportunities he did get, and he strikes out just as often as Wood ever did. We already have depth at his position…valuable depth. Sacrificing it a little bit to heavily bolster our rotation is the whole point of having depth in the first place.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 5, 2010 12:05 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Per #1 -- No, not especially.
S-Rod in Spring Training over the past three seasons.
I get that you’re softening the blow, but it’s kind of a bummer that fans just throw info out there that’s not particularly accurate, and then other fans rate it up just because it’s on the optimistic tip.
Sean Rodriguez isn’t a perennial terror in spring training, but he did show continued progressive development and upside while in our system, to a greater degree than players like Brandon Wood. He has a better eye, equivalent power, and more positional versatility. It’s not just what he’s showing this Spring.
Per #2 — That’s sort of a laundry list of players competing for five spots. Brown, Quinlan and Figgins are essentially moot, b/c none are prospects or the future at their positions — and Brown and Quinlan certainly are not middle-infielders. Given that Sean Rodriguez is the one player on that list not named Chone who can play six positions (he was playing LF for the Rays today), I don’t buy that he was “blocked” by anyone, and he certainly wasn’t confined to the left side of the infield.
Per #3 — How does one exactly “undervalue” a pitcher with 20M+ on his contract that cost us three of our top prospects? One that has a recent history significant injury and mechanical issues? Either he’s worth what we paid him, or not. And we paid considerably.
All of his value at this point is his upside — it’s completely speculative. If we’re really going to look at small sample sizes to try to milk that upside, we can look at six regular season games, or we can look at the three postseason appearances where he gave up nine earned runs in under eleven innings, and walked eight batters. No pitcher on our club did more to kill our ALCS than Kazmir. We were already eight games up in the standings when we acquired him, so it’s hard to argue that his net contribution to 2009 was positive.
Now all that can be forgotten if the guy becomes what he was at 22-23 again. But we shouldn’t forget what we paid for him. We paid ~22M, which should have got him for scrubs, but instead we handed out some serious farm loot in the bargain. We didn’t lose a very good prospect. We lost three very good prospects, while paying through the nose, and doing Tampa Bay a favor by freeing up budget. Kazmir will have to be very good in 2010 and 2011 to say we paid to value.
Unproven Minor Leaguers for Proven ML Pitcher Scott Kazmir...
I understand both of your points but have to side with Casey on this one. Maybe not with all of his points, but for Turks Teeth to compare the RS and PS stats, I try to say it’s apples and oranges. We picked up a quality young pitcher who has proven he belongs at the ML level. He had one bad PS, and it happened to be with us. The other PS was a success. The guy averages 11 wins a year w/ a 3.77 ERA. He’s really only had one bad year. I’m discounting his 1st year as well as he pitched in 33 innings at the age of 20.
We gave quality youth, yes we did. But it’s unproven talent at the ML level. Turks, you say we paid for Kazmirs upside. I say the Rays paid for Torres, Sweeney and S-Rods upside. Torres is scouted to be a left handed specialist in the pen one day and rated #9 in the Rays organization prospects. Sweeney is injury prone w/ hip and ankle ailments. Remember the last 3rd baseman with hip issues? He’s not even in their top 10. Plus, they have Longoria,a d we have Wood. He wasn’t going to make our club anyways. As far as S-Rod, I love the guy and I didn’t want to see him traded but you have to give something, to get something.
Where would we be if we failed to trade for Kazmir, and Lackey had left for Boston too? Kazmir was better than any other FA pitcher this off-season. We dealt from depth, to shore up a major need. The Angels got the best of the trade.
by matt92130 on Mar 6, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Word
Where would we be if we failed to trade for Kazmir, and Lackey had left for Boston too? Kazmir was better than any other FA pitcher this off-season. We dealt from depth, to shore up a major need. The Angels got the best of the trade.
Everyone wants to get a cow for three magic beans. However, any good trade has to have a serious cost attached to it. Sean Rodriguez may turn out to be a star or he may be a utility man, maybe Chase Utley or maybe Benji Gil. Time will tell. The Angels, on the other hand, had Wood to slot into 3B, Kendrick manning 2B and Izturis to fill in all over the place. We couldn’t bury Rodriguez at SLC and keep him under glass, in case of emergency.
I hope he does very well. He seems like a very nice kid. But the Angels needed Kazmir far more than the team needed Rodriguez. Indications are that Kazmir may well return to 2007 form, and should that happen, Sean Rodriguez will be irrelevant to the Angels.
And props to Reagins for setting the table with this trade before Lackey began to make his demands, so that the Angels negotiated out of strength.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Mar 6, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
"All of his value at this point is his upside — it’s completely speculative."
Says the guy saying we gave up too much on PROSPECTS for a pitcher with 5 years major league experience. Speculation on Kazmir going forward is no more speculative than what you can say about any of our prospects (two of which I believe you strongly overvalue personally) in the trade…in fact, the speculation is LESS because we know that he has the ability to produce in the majors in a way that we cannot claim about anyone given up.
I erred on S-Rod’s spring stats (I couldn’t find them, but then again an .827 OPS with a significantly reduced K-rate last year is nothing to sneeze at either), but it doesn’t negate the MAIN point of the comment…which is that strong spring performances (which, at 6 at-bats, I’d wait before commenting on anyway) FREQUENTLY come from people who amount to absolutely nothing.
Simple fact remains: we are not lacking for depth to any concerning degree in the middle infield as much as we would be concerned about rotational depth should we be trotting out Santana, Saunders, Weaver, Pineiro, and who-the-heck-knows. Conjecture about this forum undervaluing Kazmir is wholly subjective…it is not, as you say “he’s either worth it or not, he can’t be undervalued.” I think he can be…and the way people treat him like he’s some lifetime #3 guy rather than a very likely ace is just absurd to me. Our team is BETTER off with Kazmir right now than it is with S-Rod providing his POTENTIAL a couple notches down on the depth chart.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 6, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
And God no, we shouldn't have given up Howie instead
are you kidding? The guy hits at the major league level…something not true of either Wood or Rodriguez yet. He has higher upside than either as far as I’m concerned, and unlike the others has to some degree actually PROVEN it.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 5, 2010 12:07 PM PST reply actions
I wasn't big on the Kazmir trade precisely because we gave up S-Rod
He’s not on our team anymore, but I said at the time I felt like we’d come to regret giving him up. I haven’t really seen anything that would make me change my mind.
~Till the Halo burns out...
So he goes to the East and makes life harder for Boston and New York
Sounds like we are still getting some value out of him. Nothing like undercover work to support your plans for world domination.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Mar 5, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Like having 8 young infielders and one gaping hole in our starting rotation is preferable?
"God watches over drunks and third baseman." - the Immortal Leo Durocher, predicting the coming of Brandon Wood...
Well, S-Rod could have probably played a serviceable left field
So we switch Juan over to right, DH Abreu, and resign Lackey with the money we are no longer spending on Kazmir and Matsui. Or so I might have written it up in place of what we did do. It’s easy to sit back and criticize or speculate though. I just mourn the loss of a promising young player and see no harm in doing so.
~Till the Halo burns out...
I really don't like the idea of the Angels giving Lackey the contract he got from the Sox.
He’s guaranteed 15.25 million a year through age 36.
Kazmir gets 8 million and 12 million for his age 26 and 27 seasons, respectively. And a 13.5 million option for his age 28 season.
I would say the odds of Kazmir being worth his 20 million(well, 22.5, including the buyout for 2012) over 2 years are much better than Lackey being worth 82.5 million for his 31-35 seasons.
So unless Sean ends up being something completely amazing, I think the Kazmir trade was a better idea than resigning Lackey.
Lackey can go eat beans in boston
FATHER OF A WONDERFUL SON VLADIMIR
Sorry not named after Guerrero...but would be cool
Lets revisit this one in October
If Kaz wins 15+ Games and keeps is ERA in a respectable level, people will be glad we made the trade, especially id S-Rod spends the season in AAA. Only time will tell.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
by ArchAngel_7 on Mar 5, 2010 2:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Hated losing Sean, hated it hated it.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
It's ok, we have Wood...
He’s been tearing it up in Sprin… Nevermind. .000 avg. But anyway, Sean is only hitting .833 so it’s not that big of a difference!
Nevermind. :P
(I’m not saying I’m not rooting for Wood, just that the best indicator of future success is…the past – hope he figures stuff out fast)
http://www.nesn.com/2010/03/sean-rodriguez-could-shine-bright-with-rays-this-season.html
Man I'm too click happy.
Also, I don’t buy in to the theory that if you do well in ST, it means nothing.
Doing sucky in ST as not being an indication is a little easier to swallow as the whole purpose of ST is to get back into the groove.
To do what he’s done in 3 games is an extremely small sample but very consistent and damn good.
Obviously it will be easier (or harder to swallow) to check stuff out come ASB. But like others, I expected the PTBNL to be someone we barely knew.
When I heard it was Sean, I was like….WTF?!??
Kazmir better stay healthy or I’m going to kick him in the nuts.
Didn't Aybar hit 3 homeruns in ST last year?
and then hit 5 homeruns all of the ‘09 season? Obviously nothing against Erick, I’m just saying that ST games can’t be the only test sample.
Sorry Seattle, 2010 still isn't your year.
well then...
we’re EFF’D! ZOMG y teh hEx DiD NInjER tradez demZ??!1
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Mar 6, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
Read My Signature.....NUF SAID
I was probably the biggest Kendry Morales and Sean Rodriguez fan since they were signed. I didnt like the fact that he got traded but when I think about it more and more, I actually like the trade. Sure I would have loved to see S-Rod kick some ass with the Halos along side Kendry but lets be real……IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. Kendrick is blocking him and no way Scioscia would have started him, yet alone given him a chance to play concistently, because Izturis is the backup to any injury.
But on the Rays (who most Angels fans like) we have the opportunity of watching him play full time and kick the shit out of they stupid Yankees and Red Sux for us :)
Btw I had a blast watching S-Rod Tee off against Phil Huges and the Joba Rules ROFL. I hope he wins a starting spot and has an MVP type season like Kendry did for us……..GO S-ROD!!!
Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Putting in Perspective
Overall, I liked the trade.
As has been mentioned, you need to give up value to get value. There are always a few people who think we could have packaged GMJ, Reggie Willits and Robb Quinlan and gotten something in return, but this isn’t that fantasy baseball that you’ve been playing with your 12 year old nephew, and those kinds of trades don’t happen in the real world.
Kazmir, for all of his issues, can “potentially” pitch with the number #1’s in the league. Starting pitching comes at a premium. What made S-Rod special is that he was a middle infielder with power potential, but all in all, he’s just a middle infielder prospect in an organization rich in middle infielders. If the Halos had a bunch of top pitching prospects who could step in the rotation now, then no, I would not have made this trade. Unfortunately, that’s not the strength of our minor league system. Part of the reason why the Rays made this deal is not just because Kazmir makes a ton of money, but because they had Wade Davis ready to step into the rotation right now.
I wish Sean Rodriguez well. But, I have confidence in our minor league scouts and front office folks. Generally, if you look at the minor league players that we have traded away, you will not find too many stars. This reflects well on our organization’s ability to evaluate talent. Maybe Sean will become one. If he does, that really wouldn’t change my judgment, since hindsight is 20/20 and like I said, if you have a chance to trade a mid-level middle infielder prospect for a top starting pitcher you jump on it.
and you’re not playing with your 10
i really liked the way sean rod was playing, i was verrrry upset that he was the player to be named in the trade….that being said… im still glad we have kazmir…. its not very often you can get a pitcher of his quality.
S-rod is great, but at the end of the day having depth in the minors is gonna hafta be used as trade leverage to fill in holes in your team
In Kobe we trust!
Ther are still people around here who lament losing DMac
"God watches over drunks and third baseman." - the Immortal Leo Durocher, predicting the coming of Brandon Wood...
I lament not hearing that crappy country song intro when he came up to the plate...
Oh wait… I see what you did thar!
You know who doesn't miss DMac?
My blood pressure.
Wow Mike, you sure know alot about laundry.
by Teixeira Who? on Mar 6, 2010 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
The decision was a no brainer
I dont think there are many who believe that Sean Rodriguez wont have success in the big leagues… will he be a star? maybe maybe not… but still this trade was a no brainer.
Truth is that Angel infielders are blocked at the major league level. Barring injury they figure to be blocked for many years to come. Kendry Morales has locked up 1st base. Trumbo and Napoli will be blocked. At 2nd Howie Kendrick is maybe the best pure hitter the team has developed since Carney Lansford. Future batting title potential with emerging power and a solid glove with pretty good range. At Short, Aybar is developing into a Jose Reyes type with Gold Glove caliber defense, canon for throwing arm, speed and has broken through as a hitter who led the team in BA. At third was Figgins who was allowed to walk to make room for Brandon Wood who has been the teams top prospect and one of the top prospects in all of baseball for years again with a spectacular glove, range and arm, outstanding power (not only HRs, but also like Morales and Kendrick a history of finding the gaps for high double counts also. Backing up 2B, SS and 3B is Izturis who is maybe the best extra infielder in baseball offensively and defensively both.
So in August 09 the team was looking at a 1st place club with Saunders, Santana and Lackey all still nursing injuries and not pitching to their ability. Lackey having all but promised to walk at the end of the year. And a fan base screaming for the club to give up everything to bring in Halladay or Lee. Enter pitching coach Butcher who tells management I used to coach a guy who has been and can be again unhittable… he is young, has nasty stuff, and has already been an Ace.. oh and btw, he is a lefty. Negotiations follow and turns out he can be had for a bunch of talented minor league players who are blocked from ever playing a significant role on the club. And guess what… when Figgins and Lackey both walk 4 first round or high sandwich picks will allow the club to instantly restock. the system.
So the trade was a no brainer… top tier pitcher for a collection of players blocked from making the squad who will be out of options long before a starting spot opens up.
So this left as the only decision left… Sean Rodriguez or Brandon Wood as the one the club keeps to round out the infield for the next 5 – 10 years. The team didnt have room for both. So lets compare apples to apples… both had 7 years of minor league experience and both out of options… Wood led in HRs 160 – 127, Wood led in RBIs 540 451, Wood led in doubles 222 127, Wood led in average .286 – .281, Wood led in SLG .541 – .501. Rodriguez led in OBP .380 – .354. Rodriguez also led in more walks and fewer strikeouts 357/681 -294/767. Finally the biggest difference between them was defense… while Wood is an excellent defensive player at 3 positions, with a ton of range and very strong throwing arm, S Rodriguez is an average fielder also at 3 positions. Bottomline Rodriguez is going to be a good player, maybe a very good player… Wood has a legit shot at being a star. Finally with regard to the one knock on Wood as a guy who strikes out too much… he focused in 09 in cutting down on his strikeouts and plate discipline… Well seems to have paid huge dividends as he cut his stikeouts significantly… in fact struck out less than Figgins or S Rod.
Now lets embrace Kazmir and Wood… watch the team build and grow around them as part of the young core of this team that can be together for years and keeping the club in the hunt for a title year after year. I for one am excited about the clubs moves this year. Ive never seen the club with a better rotation, stronger bullpen or more talented / athletic infield. As a long time Angels fan, Im also not accustomed to the club having such young players in almost every key position. Its a really good time to be an Angels fan.
by camuzikman on Mar 6, 2010 5:15 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Following up on your interesting numbers........
Wood‘s 2B’s were 222 to Rodriguez’s 162.
TB’s 1593 to 1376. PA’s 3302 to 3240.
BWood is ~8 weeks older than SRod. BWood was a Baseball America top 100 prospect four times from ‘05-08; The linked pages don’t show any such ranking for SRod.
Comparing these numbers are tough. All in all, I think we made the right decisions; I remember marveling at Kazmir’s SO numbers a couple of years ago.
...and Kazmir's a PROVE ACE who just turned 26.
by wumbug on Mar 7, 2010 4:28 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think a lot of people
are missing the point. A 2nd Baseman who may or may not mash at a Major League level and a proven #1 who pitched in the AL East, one of the tougher divisions.
It was a must do and we did it.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
Yahtzee
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 7, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
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