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Compensation picks lost, 2004-2008

Last year the Angels gained 4 excellent prospects, Mike Trout, Randal Grichuk, Garret Richards, and Tyler Skaggs from free agent compensation picks.  This year they'll have several more high picks.  From 2004 to 2008 the Angels gave up a lot of picks for free agent signings.  I wonder how many of those they regret?  How much major league talent was lost?  How much better would the farm system have been?  Of course, there is no guarantee that the Angels would have taken the same players that were taken by the teams who got our picks.  Here's the signings that turned out to be strong investments, and those that were duds:

Star-divide

2004

Colon - Tyler Lumsden, Wes Whisler
Escobar - Zach Jackson, Adam Lind

Lumsden and Whisler are pitchers with unimpressive minor league numbers. Jackson has been traded a few times and has a 5.81 ERA in 22 Major league games over 3 years.  Lind developed into an excellent power hitter last year, but has no defensive value.  If he were on the Angels he'd fit in nicely as a DH, and there would have been no need to sign Matsui this year or Abreu last year.  Then again, Bobby and Hideki didn't cost much. 

Both pitchers finished their Angel careers with two years of damaged goods, but Colon did win the Cy young in 2005 and pitched a brilliant game 160 in 2004 as the Angels came from behind to beat the A's.  Escobar was a huge part of the 2004, 2005, and 2007 division champions.

Would I do it a again?  Hell yeah.

2005

Orlando Cabrera - Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie

This was a move I didn't like at the time.  Mostly because the Angels non-tendered David Eckstein because of this move.  Eckstein was, and always will be, one of my favorites, and played well for the next 3 years in St. Louis.  Cabrera was slightly more valuable over those 3 years, he rates at 9 wins above replacement according to my stats on Baseballprojection.com.  But Eckstein had 8 WAR himself.  One fewer win over three years would not have cost us the 2005 or 2007 division titles. Ellsbury would have been a fine addition to the Angels.  A good cheap outfielder with great speed, in my alternate universe he would have come up in late 2007 and replaced Gary Matthews Jr. as little Sarge faded in August and September.  He'd be a #2 hitter behind Figgins until this year, when he steps into the leadoff role and provides the speed that Scioscia needs.

Would I do it again?  No way.  Give me Eckstein for 3 more years until Aybar's ready, and a cheap, speedy outfielder saved from the clutches of evil.

2006

Jeff Weaver - Avery Morris, Preston Mattingly
Hector Carrasco - Stephen Englund

Both Dodgers are only 22, so it's to early to write them off, but their minor league numbers are not good.  Jeff Weaver pitched so poorly that he may have cost the Angels the 2006 division title.  Had he not been around Weaver the Younger may have gotten to the majors a bit earlier, and might have been the difference.  It especially hurts to think that after that effort, Jeff Weaver actually ended up with a world series ring.  Carrasco gave the Angels one good year, Englund has not hit for the Nationals.

Would I do it again?  Weaver No way.  Not for the prospects lost, but to avoid having Weaver the Elder.  Carrasco, sure, he had value in 2006.

2007

Gary Matthews Jr - Michael Main, Neil Ramirez
Justin Speier - Eric Eiland, Brett Cecil

Main has had some injury concerns, but is still the #21 prospect for the Rangers.  Cecil made 17 starts for the Blue Jays last year, was not effective but is still young enough to improve.

Would I do it again?
Nope, mostly because Matthews and Speier weren't close to being worth the money spent on them.

2008

Torii Hunter - Carlos Gutierrez, Shooter Hunt

Hunt has walked more than a batter per inning in the minors.  Gutierrez does not have great numbers but is still considered the #7 prospect in the Twin's system.

Would I do it again?  Think of Jon Lester serving up a 3 run homer in game 1 of the 2009 playoffs.  You better believe it.

Draft results found on Baseball-reference.com.

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That Jacoby Ellsbury one really hurts...

He would have looked great patrolling the Angels OF. Scioscia tends to be a more aggressive manager than Francona, Ellsbury might steal 80 bags. Then again, his numbers are greatly inflated playing 100 of his 162 games playing in Boston and New York, two stadiums that really probably shouldn’t even be major league ball parks. Imagine our lineup with Lind and Ellsbury instead of Abreu and Matsui.

"He’s not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with, obviously." -Theo Epstein talking about Jon Papelbon.

"OMG, I think I'm gonna barf!" Halowood's reaction to Fuentes facing a Right Handed Batter.

by Halowood on Apr 19, 2010 7:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Ellsbury

what’s more, if he had been in the Angels system, you’ve got to wonder whether they would have signed HGH Jr. to begin with. Seems unlikely.

by jjackflash on Apr 20, 2010 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice stuff

The 2010 draft will be fun. Lets make Seattle and Boston pay for taking Figgins and Lackey this year…

by TheQuestforMerlin on Apr 19, 2010 7:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Can't compare using the players those other teams drafted.

There’s no telling who the Angels would have drafted had they held on to those picks. For example, the Jays picked Lind thanks to us signing Escobar. But maybe we pick Lind if we had the draft pick we lost by signing Colon. Who knows?

The bottom line is that Stoneman wasted a lot of money and lost a lot of draft picks signing the wrong players. 2005-2007 were just bad news. I’m glad Reagins took over for 2008.

by Robviously on Apr 19, 2010 9:51 PM PDT reply actions  

bad news?

uhhhh… let’s see…. a division title, beating hte Yankees in the ALDS and getting to within 3 games from the pennant, 89-win 2nd place finsih the next year and a division title following that.

That is bad news? Maybe for the spoiled…

by Rev Halofan on Apr 19, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I read it as "bad news for our future"

I don’t think anyone will complain about the Angels on-field production during those years, and a lot of credit goes to Stoneman for putting the pieces in place. However, his moves during the 05-07 period didn’t improve the major league club enough to validate the franchise giving up some of the resources that could’ve made it stronger in the future (aka now). Shea Hillenbrand, GMJ, Jeff Weaver, Estaban Yan, Justin Speier were not good investments.

by The OC Disorder on Apr 20, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Think it was pretty clear

Think it was pretty clear I meant he did a bad job with free agent signings in those years.

I’m glad OC Disorder understood at least.

by Robviously on Apr 20, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting

Albeit a tad incomplete. I understand it’s beyond the parameters you were considering, but in evaluating the Cabrera signing, I think it’s necessary to include Jon Garland as well, since Cabrera was parlayed into Garland, who gave the Angels around 200 IP in a division-winning year. I can’t remember if the Angels got any compensation picks when he then signed with Arizona, but if they did, that should be included as well for the sake of completeness.

by jjackflash on Apr 20, 2010 12:39 AM PDT reply actions  

Jon Garland got us Tyler Kehrer

Jeff Weaver got us Terry Evans

GMJ got us Brian Stokes

R.I.P. Nick Adenhart #34

by Vladd#27 on Apr 20, 2010 2:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

in keeping Eckstein

as per your plans … the pitching is made worse without Cabrera’s defense … and if we draft Ellsbury do we sign Hunter?

by Rev Halofan on Apr 20, 2010 12:56 AM PDT reply actions  

Just as important, would we have made the enormous mistake of signing GMJ?

I understand signing Hunter was huge for this ball club, but it was only necessitated by GMJ’s lack of production. I mean an outfield with Ellsbury in CF, Lind in RF and GA followed by Rivera in LF and Vlad/Abreu at DH seems more economical and just as productive as the Hunter, GMJ, Rivera, GA, Abreu, Matsui/Vlad at DH and outfield.

Too many perspectives with this picture, it’s easiest just for me to say Ellsbury and Lind would have been nice without thinking about their Butterfly Effect.

"He’s not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with, obviously." -Theo Epstein talking about Jon Papelbon.

"OMG, I think I'm gonna barf!" Halowood's reaction to Fuentes facing a Right Handed Batter.

by Halowood on Apr 20, 2010 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think we get Hunter

Scioscia was never really down on Matthews, even at the end he was sending that bum up there to make the last out of the ALCS. I think they signed Matthews because they were desperate for a center fielder. Matthews’ 2007 final numbers are not terrible. They signed Hunter because he was the best player available and it was a great opportunity to improve the team.

So with Ellsbury in the system, they pass on GMJR, let Willits start the 2007 season and bring up Ellsbury in mid year, and then move him to a corner to sign Hunter for 2008. At least that’s the story I’m sticking to.

The HK-47 hitting droid is the finest line drive machine ever built

by RallyMonkey5 on Apr 20, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting post.

Well, this is a lot of water under the bridge isn’t it?

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Apr 20, 2010 1:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Fun read, but...

… was it necessary to include both the lost draft pick AND the other team’s between-round compensation pick? For example, we certainly could have drafted Zach Johnson in lieu of Escobar, but how could we have been in a position to pick up Lind? Unless I’m not reading this correctly…

by GrichManPoorMan on Apr 20, 2010 6:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Lind

Was the third round pick, the one the Angels gave up. Jackson was the comp pick, so he’s not really anyone the Angels lost. Had Escobar not been signed I guess the Pirates or Orioles would have had a chance to pick him.

The HK-47 hitting droid is the finest line drive machine ever built

by RallyMonkey5 on Apr 20, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great stuff

Some teams are better at drafting and developing than others. Period. Red Sox. Rockies. If you sign one of their free agents, the odds are pretty good that they will take advantage of the opportunity.

I’m sure the front office does similar studies. Dollars spent. Opportunity cost. Present results vs. future possibilities. Is it best to borrow from Peter to pay Paul?

As for the signing of Fernando Rodney, though, they obviously don’t care :)

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Apr 20, 2010 7:45 AM PDT reply actions  

Love the post

The question is, are the Angels better at drafting and developing players? I’d say the org is definitely one of the better ones.

by ginbejury on Apr 20, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

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