The Myth of Howie Kendrick
Ever since he came up over four years ago all we've heard about is Howie Kendrick's supposed potential and how he is going to be contending for batting titles one day. He has had more than enough time to prove himself and the verdict is in: he is no more than a middle of the road 2B. Kendrick is hitting .284 with 2 hr, a .697 OPS so far this year and people are acting like he is the second coming of Charlie Gehringer. Ten years from now he'll be 36 hitting .280/.290 with no power and Jose Mota and Mark Gubicza will be saying, "Howie is going to win a batting title one day. He has that type of potential!"
In the meantime 2B his own age such as Ian Kinsler, Martin Prado and Robinson Cano and Dustin Pedroia have completely surpassed him as a player. All of these players either have more power, steal more bases, hit for a better avg. or some variation of the three and all play better defense. Not to mention the obvious ones such as Chase Utley or Brandon Phillips or a bevy of others I have yet to mention. If you look at all of these players careers stats and what they're doing this year there is no question they are better than Kendrick and that Kendrick is just a middle of the pack 2B.
Lets start with the unheralded ones who aren't too obvious.
Martin Prado 2B of the Braves is 26 same age as Kendrick. He is a .312 career hitter, hit .311 last year and is at .319 so far this year with an .811 OPS. Scouts say he is only going to get better. Across the board this is easily better than Kendrick.
Dan Uggla is someone baseball fans are familiar with if they take more than a cursory look at teams other than the Angels yet he is still a relative unknown. He has hit 30 hr for 3 straight years and is at .284 6 hr so far this year with an .873 OPS. If Kendrick had done this since 2007 our announcers and radio hosts would act like he is the reincarnation of Rogers Hornsby.
Now lets get to the obvious ones.
Within our own division is Ian Kinsler. No one really heard of Ian Kinsler a couple years ago and then in 2008 he hit .319 with 18 hr and last year he went 30/30. Kendrick will never hit 30 homers or steal 30 bases in a season.
In 2008 Dustin Pedroia had one of the greatest seasons of a 2B ever and is at .303 with 7 bombs this year.
Of course you got Chase Utley who goes without mentioning and then Robinson Cano and his .325 25 hr last year while playing like Ryne Sandberg in 1984 this year. Both have way more range and better arms than Kendrick too but that wouldn't be hard.
Oh but I'm not done. There are more. I can keep going.
Brandon Phillips is a gold glover who hit 20 hr and 98 rbi last year. He hit 30 bombs a few years ago and has gone over 20 three times. He also steals 25/30 bases a year. Kendrick will win a gold glove the day Hideki Matsui and Vladdy lead the league in stolen bases.
Brian Roberts hit 56 doubles last year and has hit over 50 doubles over three times in his career. He also stole 30 bags last year and has had seasons of 50 and 40 stolen bases while consistently hitting around .290 and belting out between 13-18 homers.
Oh but there are more
Aaron Hill 2B of the Blue Jays started year on the DL but just got back. He went .286 36 hr 106 rbi last year. If Howie did that this year people affiliated with the team would already be putting him in the Hall of Fame next to Eddie Collins.
Kelly Johnson 2B of the DBacks just turned 28 and is entering his prime. No one has ever talked about him because he wasn't such a big "prospect" like the great Howie Kendrick and Casey Kotchman. Yet here he his hitting .300 with 10 home runs already. Kendrick will be lucky to get to 10 home runs by the end of the year.
And 2B just got more crowded with Ryan Theriot of the Cubs moving there today. He's only hitting .341. I know, I know, he'll come down to earth and probably finish around his career avg of .292 with no power. Would someone please tell me how Howie Kendrick is any better than that? Other than the fact that oh yeah Theriot steals more bases and plays better defense.
Same with Orlando Hudson who is a former all star and gold glove winner with better range than the "eponymous" Howie Kendrick. Hudson also hits about .290 every year and in the Twins loaded lineup should have a good year. So far he is hitting .280 with 2 hr. But Kendrick is at .284 with 2 hr! And worse defense! Even Rickie Weeks whose been riddled with injuries last few years is healthy this year. He doesn't hit for the same avg as Kendrick but is .261 5 hr 18 rbi this year and an OPS about 130 points higher than Kendrick. And he is faster stealing more bases.
And there is even a 2B with the Padres who is a 2 time World Series winner and and former World Series MVP who is big part of the Padres early season resurgence with key hits.
I could go on listing more 2B who are arguably as good or maybe better or just barely a little worse than Kendrick. At best Kendrick is 12th-17th best 2B in the league. He is nothing but a middle of the road 2B yet this myth persists among certain Angels fans, created and perpetuated from the commentators that he is great.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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but what about that time
he jumped in the air during the playoffs. You gotta admit that was pretty awesome.
by Rev Halofan on May 8, 2010 1:00 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Yawn....
HK-47 is better than your favorite second-baseman. And if you think that Nate Sutton or Kevin Frandson are any better, then yous a fool…
Howie is solid gold, pick on someone else this year…like Brandon Wood or Joe Saunders.
red colors and jaded pasts...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on May 8, 2010 1:55 AM PDT reply actions
HK47? LMAO
Light hitting “Mighty” Maicer Izutris hit .300 last year. No discernible difference other than he hits when it counts and better defender. But I guess Kendrick has more power…ahahahaha
Anyone can point out Joe Saunders. Not that I didn’t expect it. Second half of last year he became a batting practice pitcher and finished with 4.60 era. Didn’t know that qualified as a bona fide number 2 but pointing that out would be too easy. On ohter hand we have a very light hitting infield. Kendry is only guy in our lineup that scares anyone.
colonel
uhm. are you mental?
when Saunders came back from the DL, he was lights out. Unfortunately, Yahoo splits only has 2008 and career, so I can’t back it up. But, it was the FIRST HALF of 2009 that he was a BP pitcher, and that’s because he was stubbornly pitching through pain. That he brought his ERA DOWN TO 4.60 is triumphant. Say what you want about wins, but he did win 16 games, and you could do much worse on the open market or in AAA…
www.13stoploss.com
uhm remember that almost no hitter
he threw against zach greinke and royals in May of last year. He did good the first half of last year. Second half he was batting practice. Maybe he had a few good starts at very end of year, who knows. 4.60 era speaks for itself. His pitching this year speaks for itself.
4.60 era DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ITSELF.
It can’t because that is not taking into account injuries which he had half the year. Yes he had that great game but he in the first half pitched around average because of the injury most of the time. He came back of the DL and pitched wonderful. The ERA you are getting is the era for the whole year and you are trying to say that tells you something about only half the year. Seriously
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
"Who knows?"
Uhm, most fans who paid attention DO know…Saunders went on the DL last year in August after trying to pitch through pain to horrific results for the preceding months. From the time he came back from injury to the end of the season (a span of 8 starts), he went 7-0 with a 2.55 ERA.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL Izzy can't stay healthy.
Thats why he doesn’t play everyday. Saunders is not the number 2, he only fills that spot in the rotation. Think of it this way. Weaver is a strikeout right handed pitcher, right? Santana is a strikeout right handed pitcher, right? Why would you throw them back to back nights? Its about changing eye levels and making the switch hitters move around every night. Here is why ( I think) Sosh has it the way he does.
Weaver- Strikeout RHP
Saunders- Pitch to Contact LHP
Santana- Strikeout RHP
Pinero- Pitch to Contact RHP
Kas- Potential Strikeout LHP
There is my reasoning.
"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana
by pendletonmike on May 8, 2010 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Kendrick wasn't healthy in 2007 2008 either
I only said number 2 starter because according to our team we have “5 number 2 starters”
you're annoying
whats funny is the original point isnt terribly off base statistically speaking, Im just not sure I understand the spirit of it.
I guess this is what the bandwagon looks like when it hits a bump in the road.
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on May 8, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Man, what was Eckstein ranked in 2002?
What is this “when it counts you speak of?” Lets compare Howie to 4 all-star second-basemen you’ve been creaming your pants over:
RISP
HK: .304 OBP: .344
Cano: .256 /OBP: .293
Kinsler: .314/ OBP: 394
Uggla: .246/ OBP: .349
Aaron Hill: .287/ OBP: .348
RISP, 2 Out
HK: .278 / OBP: .309
Robinson Cano: .248 / OBP: .285
Ian Kinsler: .265 / OBP: .378
Dan Uggla: .210 / OBP:342
Aaron Hill: 278. /OBP: 354
From the looks of it, Howie actually holds his own against this all-star second basemen “when it counts.” Obviously, you need to take into account PA’s which vary…neverthless, I dont see anything here to be worried about.
red colors and jaded pasts...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on May 8, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Let us also not forget-his value
His salary is low, and when it comes up to be ‘renewed’ he wont cost us a lot. And he is maybe what… the 7th best Second baseman in the game. He is averaging a .300 avg, and a .763 ops. This is all while having a couple of months of real struggle and being sent down.
All the ‘better’ second baseman you mentioned only have one real difference HR’s.
Because HK doesn’t hit 25 Hr’s a year and is relegated to 8-10 a year he is a lesser 2b?
I won’t say he is a top 5 2b. But lets keep in mind in his CAREER, his earnings are $1,292,500
even with a sizable raise coming up. He is at most a 3-4 million a year guy.
So 3.5 Mill for a good defensive 2b, with a .300 avg (I think that will go up and hover around .315) and a good clubhouse guy, who loves to hit the ball in the gap. that we can lock up for 5 years? I’ll say yes please.
Also—-Not every team can have an Albert Pujos or Hanley Ramirez. Some teams have a Clint Barmes. You can complain about age in the OF, but besides Brandon wood being a waste of sperm and eggs, we are not weak at any position
Uh-oh ... Is Pythagoras finally right about us?
by Sinatrasratpack on May 8, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
You're argument is he doesn't cost a lot?
Well if that’s the criteria at this rate he’ll never cost that much so I guess that’s good
My argument is that he has shown potential, just not given us a full year of it yet
There have been mid season call ups, broken bones, and that spot where he forgot how to hit last year. But, over long stretches, the dude has hit .350+. If he can stay out of those nose dive slumps and freak injuries, he will win a batting title.
by Balls and Strikes on May 8, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
That spot where he forgot how it hit last year
Yeah, that’s called being not a good hitter. I hope you are right. I really do because it would help our team tremendously if he could hit like Derek Jeter in that .317 range
Speaking of Derek Jeter
quite funny you should say that at the same time you say that Howie’s poor hitting means he’s “not a good hitter.”
Guess who was batting .189 on May 25th of 2004 in a full sample size for the time frame? Derek Fucking Jeter.
You know what Howie was hitting on May 25th of 2009 when he was “not a good hitter?” .243.
The point isn’t that Howie is Jeter. It’s that good hitters can have bad stretches…LONG bad stretches. It doesn’t make them bad.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Great nickname
we can only hope HK-47 one day breaks out. We’ll see what happens when he becomes a FA.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
Yawn, Part 2
Solid fucking gold! ’Aint no myth about HK.
Like the cockroach, you just can't kill Q
Really?
Kendrick is who we are complaining about? We need more threads bashing Brian Stokes. Thats what we need.
Howie's fine
A good solid player. And he played like a great player the second half of 2009. It would be nice if he could do that over a full year, catch up with the Canos, Pedroias, and Kinslers, but if not at least we’ve got a solid .290 hitter with occasional power, a decent (if not gold) glove who can swipe 15 bases. And if Howie never fulfills the upside, then in 2012-2013 we can look forward to Amarista.
The HK-47 hitting droid is the finest line drive machine ever built
by RallyMonkey5 on May 8, 2010 7:15 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Rolling eyes
yeah, Howie Kendrick is this team’s biggest problem right now…(add sarcasm)
Another lame fanpost. Boooooooooooooooooo
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
More Howie please...
OK here we go
While I agree that we might treat HK as the next coming of a batting title messiah and maybe overrate him at times, I think he still has potential. He shows flashes of the great hitter he can be as seen by his second half in 2009. By some accounts, he is hitting at a pedestrian pace, but have you looked at the statistics close. HK performs after the All-Star Break, having a BA of about .323. HK was never predicted to hit about 30 HRs. The scouts have touted him as a doubles machine. I think he is an important player on our team and I still think his time will come when he hits out of the 2 slot.
I think his main issue is the fact that injuries have plagued him throughout his career. I believe that without them HK could have been a bonafide hitter by now considering he seems to get them at the most inopportune times. This year should be a good judge of whether he can live up to our expectations.
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on May 8, 2010 10:06 AM PDT reply actions
I agree with you
But last year was first year Kendrick wasn’t injured and he was sent down to minors. It’s not just his power that’s lacking so is his OPS. He’s decent, just a middle of the road 2B. I hope he proves me wrong because while he may not be the main problem with our team it would certainly help if he could hit that .320 with tons of doubles.
OPS takes power into account
OPS = on base percentage plus slugging percentage. Slugging percentage measures a hitter’s power. OPS thus has a significant element of power factored into it. Therefore, it is lame to claim that his problems are “not just his power,” but also his OPS.
by Brody on May 10, 2010 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Um half of OPS is also on base percentage
So it’s ok for him to not have a good slugging or on base percentage? Whatever
Also some of the people you compare him too are ridiculous.
Aaron Hill came out of nowhere considering he hit 28 HRs combined in 4 years and suddenly hit 36 is truly an anomaly. I doubt he even comes close this year. Man we should really trade for his .191 and 2 HRs right now.
Ian Kinsler is hitting about .313 with 0 HRs and 1 SB. I see the pretty good BA but thats about the only thing. Why is that? Because is also injury prone and started on the DL.
Martin Prado and Howie Kendrick are really similar and they play at about the same level. Also Prado can play about every single position on the field. Also he has about 100 more games than HK.
I bet millions if you were the GM of ATL you would have cut Kelly Johnson the same year. 3 million for a guy who hits about .264 hits about 7 HRs average and has no speed. I was not surprised he was cut, but he is now hitting out of his mind. I doubt he sustains it.
Um Orland Hudson usually wants about 8 million a year. That would stupid. His stats don’t support the amount of money he wants. Why do you think he lasts so long as a free agent.
I know he’s been playing bad defense of late. But I think he will really pick it up
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on May 8, 2010 10:28 AM PDT reply actions
Yeah Aaron Hill and Kelly Johnson have come out of nowhere
Exactly. Even guys from nowhere are better than the guy we’ve been touting for four years. And Ian Kinsler and Aaron HIll started year on DL. By end of year both will be better than Kendrick. Kinsler has had two great years in a row so he was on DL once this year who cares. If anyone is injury prone its Howie in 2007 and 2008. Last year he finally wasn’t injured and he was sent down to minors. I don’t care what he did after all star break. Show it over the whole season.
so injuries are used to justify your point of view, but you don't allow them for HK's past performance?
Uh-oh ... Is Pythagoras finally right about us?
by Sinatrasratpack on May 8, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Injury prone?
He got hit by fucking pitches, it’s not like he has a plethora of chronic issues.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
exactly
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
OK, who left the back door unlocked?
If we don’t have even minimal standards of security, then any mentally-challenged vagrant can wander in.
I am always impressed by those who use words they don’t understand in order to make their point seem more edumacated. Case in point:
Same with Orlando Hudson who is a former all star and gold glove winner with better range than the “eponymous” Howie Kendrick.
Other howlers:
No one really heard of Ian Kinsler a couple years ago and then in 2008 he hit .319 with 18 hr and last year he went 30/30.
Dan Uggla is someone baseball fans are familiar with if they take more than a cursory look at teams other than the Angels yet he is still a relative unknown.
Really? Nobody had heard of Uggla or Kinsler until recently? The level of cerebral atrophy of this author is evident; the pinhead thinks he’s discovered fire.
Others have already pointed out one more huge difference between Kendrick and Cano, Kinsler, Uggla, Utley, Hudson and most of the rest: Kendrick costs a fraction of what those other players earn. Add to the fact that Kendrick is 26 (as opposed to 30 [Uggla], 31 [Utley], or 32 [Hudson]) and we can comfortably presume the developmental curve is far from flattening out for Kendrick.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 8, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Of course the old Howie just hasn't lived up to his potential debate
I’ll take Uggla right now over Howie. Uggla will give us 5 great years right now.
Uggla??
Statically Uggla is actually a worse defender than HK by 6 points…not to mention that Uggla bats a measly .210 batter with RISP, and two outs!!!!
red colors and jaded pasts...
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on May 8, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, wait...a 2B with a career average of exactly .300 and OPS of .763 is bad?
Not to mention his lowest season totals in either category were .285/.730 in 2006. He’s finished higher, quite significantly so in some cases, every year since.Now, I don’t typically delve into stat discussions much, but from what I know an OPS of .700+ is considered pretty good. Maybe not great, but good enough to be in the majors and add value to a lineup. Everyone knows a .300 hitter is really good.
Just from those two pieces of information, it’s safe to say we have a “pretty good” 2B in Howie Kendrick. He might not hit 30 jacks a year, but he’s a 2B, not a corner player. There’s only a few Chase Utley’s out there. And if you’re going to try and tell me Kinsler is better in the field…yeah maybe when he’s on it and not on the DL.
We can only play with what our team can acquire. I’d be fine with either Howie or Maicer at 2B, but considering the decent chance that we may need Izzy to take over 3B this year, Howie is gonna your Angels 2B for a while. Rejoice, it could be much worse.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
So you are upset, that our 2bman
isn’t the #1 rated 2bman?
Can you do a post next about how Morales is good, but why doesn’t this team have Pujos?
Or maybe a list of better closers, or a list of better 1st base coaches. i mean Griffin is really lacking, have you seen other 1b coaches around the league?
I’ll tell you what, HH community will do a list of dipshit posters in all SB Nation blogs, maybe then we’ll have a #1 -—————What’ya think
Uh-oh ... Is Pythagoras finally right about us?
by Sinatrasratpack on May 8, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Give me a break
1B is deepest position in baseball now and Morales is still in top 5. Pujols, Howard, Miguel Cabrera are top 3. I’d say Prince Fielder 4 and Morales 5 with Morneau 6 and Teixiera 7.
Why do we have Weaver and not Halladay then?
and why do we have Santana and not Greinke?
why do we have Napoli and not Mauer?
why Hunter and not Ryan Braun?
WHY? WHY? WHY?
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
WHY DON"T WE HAVE RIVERA and not FUENTES???
AHHH! THIS IS ALL TOO FRUSTRATING. I SHOULD BE OWNER/GM/COACH of TEAM.
Angels 2009 WS Champs
I'll take Neftal Feliz over Fuentes
You know the 22 year old 100mph flamethrower for Texas. Don’t single out one great 2B. There are a lot better than Kendrick
he also does those wonderful HOWARDs commercials, if we trade HK who who do them with Scioscia?
Uh-oh ... Is Pythagoras finally right about us?
by Sinatrasratpack on May 8, 2010 11:09 AM PDT reply actions
Yea, but there are a number of 2nd basemen who could do those commercials better
Howie’s tone is rather “flat” and monotone. I think a Cano or an Uggla could add a bit more zest, and Chase Ultey would be a lot more charismatic and sexy, for starters.
"You been putting it up your whole life. You just didnt know it" Anton Chigurh
But he is on the downward slop of his career
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of "slop"
How is your writing coming along?
lol
I think this whole post is a bunch of “downward slop”…
"F@#$ing Bulls@#$" -Jared Weaver
oh im sorry for the missed letter lol
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
textual malaprop
no worries—everyone does it and it can be quite humorous
"F@#$ing Bulls@#$" -Jared Weaver
I've thought this for a while
I agree with much of your argument. Howie, for the potential stamped on his forehead is at best just an average second baseman.
What makes it even worse is that he’s not very clutch. He gets brain freezes at the wrong times and his head sometimes just doesn’t seem to be there.
Personally, I’ve always like Adam Kennedy more than Howie. Say what you want about Kennedy, but he was clutch for us.
How pathetic are you?
Now you’re cherry-picking specific games to attempt to make your point?
OK, I’ll play.
2009 ALCS
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Cano 6 23 4 6 1 2 0 4 4 3 .261/.414/.478/.892
Kendrick 4 14 3 4 0 1 1 1 1 1 .286/.333/.643/.976
So Kendrick posted an OPS in the series of .976, while Cano struggled with .892. Kendrick was 4-for-14 (.286), while Cano slumped miserably at 4-for-23 (.261). Kendrick’s slugging average was 35% higher than the weak Cano’s.
Thus, it is empirically proven: Howie Kendrick is a better 2B than Cano, who clearly sucks ass.
Yes, it is just that easy to build a case when logic and the facts aren’t your friends.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 8, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice attempt at sarcasm
You think you pointed out some big revelation to me or something about how statistics can lie. And about the comment you commented on I was comparing the clutch hitting of AK and Howie. Kennedy was way more clutch with us in his time here than Kendrick. I saw it with my own eyes. I can’t even make a casual comment without you trying to sound all smart and teacher like.
Which stat was it you saw with your own eyes?
Careers:
RISP:
Kennedy: .272 w/ .718 OPS
Howie: .304 w/ .761 OPS
Men on:
Kennedy: .276 w/ .724 OPS
Howie: .310 w/ .798 OPS
Runner on 3rd, less than 2 out:
Kennedy: .353 w/ .814 OPS
Howie: .387 w/ .949 OPS
Late and Close:
Kennedy: .269 w/ .692 OPS
Howie: .330 w/ .843 OPS
And just one more thing: Howie is a better career hitter when we’re behind than ahead, and Kennedy was a better hitter when were ahead than behind. Meaning if you want a comeback, Howie was more likely to give it to you.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't worry about "casual"
It would be a massive upgrade if you simply made an intelligent comment.
Thus far, snake eyes.
Meanwhile, you apparently can’t figure out which comment I was referencing, even though I tried to make it really easy by appending my reply to what you had written, which was:
3 home runs in Game 5 for Kennedy
Couldn’t catch a pop up in Boston in 08 playoffs for Howie
So you clearly don’t even have a clue what you’re writing:
And about the comment you commented on I was comparing the clutch hitting of AK and Howie.
Really? Is that how you’re going to try and spin it?
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 8, 2010 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, you didn't know that George
was elected to the post of HH Scholar-in-Residence;
his job is to teach the young folk on the site
"F@#$ing Bulls@#$" -Jared Weaver
Not at all
It is just that numbnuts like our misguided Bruin need to recall the sage advice of Vernon Wormer:
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 9, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh you're so erudite, educated and professorial Kaplan.
You even give cliche quotes, WOW. Can’t even think of an original way to make try and make fun of someone. Ooh, and when you criticize others it’s for in your great mind’s estimation trying too hard to sound smart and using words in the wrong “context.” Please teach me your ways professor.
How about this. If you think Kendrick is better than Pedroia or even comes close you are a dumb ass.
Adam Kennedy’s career postseason stats is .312 in 78 career at bats.
Howie Kendrick’s career posteaston stats is .196 in 46 career at bats.
Yes, the “clutch” Howie Kendrick. You’re just like Kendrick in that you both haven’t proved squat. No wonder you like him so much.
Nope
But, based upon the enormous sampling of your “intelligence” provided us in this thread, I am apparently smarter than you, as are most everyone else. You’re the bottom-feeder intellectually within the very thread you originated, as most here have run circles around you.
But please, don’t stop continually redefining your thesis, in the vain hope that you’ll get lucky and come up with something defensible and true. This is comedy gold.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 9, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Statistics don't lie
People lie, and they manipulate statistics to support their lies. For example, you claim that Adam Kennedy was clutch, more clutch in fact than Howie Kendrick. That has been shown to be untrue (see Casey’s post). In support of your untrue claim, however, you point to one statistic — that Kennedy hit three home runs in one playoff game in 2002 (when steroids were not regulated by MLB).
See how this works?
Oh my god
Adam Kennedy is .312 in 78 career post season at bats compared to Kendricks .196 in 48 career post season at bats. I’m not manipulating any stats there and they’re both big sample sizes. It’s not like Howie has only had 10 playoff at bats. Also it’s not all about stats. Kennedy’s 3 homer game sticks out in my mind.
And I’m not manipulating any stats about the Cano’s, Pedroias, Brandon Phillips, etc. They have proved it for years and are proving it again this year. Howie has yet to prove it over a full season. So far this year his is .263 with a .298 OBP and 0-3 with the bases loaded while hitting .258 with RISP. You guys are the ones manipulating stats. And for the guy who said look I’m so smart Jeter was at .184 going into May 04! Are you seriously comparing Howie to Jeter. In 04 Jeter had plenty of proven years behind him. Kendrick has no proven years behind him yet.
ok if you don't think Howie has been clutch then start watching games.
Howie has a good RISP average
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Think Playoffs Think When the Games Actually Count
by righteous halo on May 8, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the only yardstick which counts?
This guy this guy was useless in two ALCS:
.234/.250/.362
Why did we even bother having him on the team all those years?
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 9, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you seriously comparing Vlad and Howie?
By the way that stupid Reagins quote you have I think can be answered. Um we shouldn’t have given up Vlad to sign Matsui. Yeah, don’t need whole season to evaluate that one. And Aybar should have never been the sticking point to acquire Roy Halladay last year. Reagins what a great GM! He’s so good he even has Mr. George Kaplan quoting him! Yay! :) Ooh i’m so excited!!!
Go look at Vlad's stats
his road/home splits are awful. He has ALWAYS torn the cover off the ball at Arlington, which is a hitter’s paradise to begin with. How you can evaluate his worth is not by his stats as a whole, but rather his stats in a more neutral setting, to show you what he could have done for OUR team so far this year.
What he has done for Texas is something that, as indicated by his stats, he would NOT have done for us so far this season. So the production you’re seeing from him thus far (in a small sample size anyway) is not production you can reasonably assert he would have had for us. His terrible road numbers so far are more park-neutral.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
That might not bode well for us the last 3 games of the season...
Hope we have the division taken care of before then.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 10, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not all about him playing in Arlington
That’s part of it but to say it’s the whole story is ridiculous. He’s finally healthy, he’s in a better lineup so they can’t pitch around him and he is motivated. You guys learn something and instead of it making you smarter than the avg fan it makes you dumber because you take your new piece of info as the entire reason why someone does bad or good. This is ridiculous these points you are making
A large part of it is Arlington.
His slash line at Home is .435/.465/.742
Away is .226/.263/.302
It is the whole story
He’s batting with a 1.200 OPS at home and a .550 mark on the road.
Also, “he’s in a better lineup?” Really? Well, first of all, the Angels were one of the best offenses in baseball last year.
Second of all, you just proved my point again: if his production is a result of the lineup around him, then you, once more, CANNOT reasonably assume him to be capable of that production in our lineup…ergo, we have not “lost” that production here so much as Texas has gained it.
It’s shocking how you don’t get anything anyone says in here. Even a broken clock should be right twice a day, but you repeatedly keep steering the failboat right into an iceberg.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes admitting he's in a better lineup
helps your argument and I realized that. But also being healthy and motivated helps my argument in that it’s not all about the ballpark in Arlington. Texas also has what many considered best hitting coach in game which I guess helps your argument and is an indictment on Mickey Hatcher. I know Vlad has done great their in his career but it’s not whole story. Most ballplayers always do better in their home park as opposed to the road in general.
Yes, most ballplayers do better at home than elsewhere, but not by a HUGE amount
Which is the case with Vladdy, obviously that’s not the whole story and he would most likely do better than he did last year, if he stayed with the Angels. However, he’ll do much better with the Rangers than he would with the Angels.
Mostly agree
But based on fact that Vlad is finally healthy and is a hall of famer that has had great years here I would take him and his 90 year old knees over Matsui and his 90 year old knees.
Jesus bro
1.200 vs. .550.
Got that?
1.200.
.550.
One makes you the best hitter of all time. The other gets you cut from all 30 teams. That’s not how “most ballplayers” do.
You just keep swinging and missing here. The point is simple, and you aren’t addressing it. The production Vlad has put up in Texas is NOT the production he’d put up with the Angels. So, through these 30+ games thus far, which constitute A MONTH of one season, the numbers that show that Vlad is far and away the right decision over Matsui are, for all intents and purposes, completely fucking meaningless.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
uclahy - i think this is what you mean
- yes our announcers, from time to time, claim that HK will be a batting champ. but…
- if you listen to what they are saying, they are saying this based on HK’s swing, not necessarily on his production. HK does have a very nice-looking swing of a future batting champ.
- being a batting champ has nothing to do with power. ask Ichiro. and it is unfair to ask of 25+ HR numbers from 2B position.
- consider overall value. HK is realtively cheap for his production. and at age 26, he’s still learning and getting better.
Angels 2009 WS Champs
I agree mostly with you
But Ichiro also has blazing speed, plays gold glove defense and is a batting champion
oh and comparing Utley to Howie is stupid as he has over 600 more at games played.
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
oh and 2200 more at bats
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean even Kinsler has 230 more games played which means about 900 more at bats and a lot of room to have more numbers.
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm comparing second basemen
That’s his position isn’t it? I’m only allowed to compare second baseman with the same number of games played or at bats. You’re an idiot
Nope not the same
However you are saying all these other guys are better, have better numbers however they have played a lot more. At least put together a quarry of players that are in the same range games or at bats wise. That or do what I did and take out the same amount of time for all the players. If you are comparing complete careers you need for accuracy (yea) compare players who are in the same class as him career wise (about some number of years in the Majors). If you are just trying to say in the last 5 years then Only use all the players states from that section of years instead of mixing it up and using career states of someone that are from 5 years ago. You use one persons numbers accumulated over 10 years and are comparing it so someone with 5 years of experience total and 3 of those years were cut short by injury and the 1 year was the year he came up and had hardly any games played.
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Good rebuttal, AC
but I think he (she?) was right about the “idiot part”
lol
"You been putting it up your whole life. You just didnt know it" Anton Chigurh
This is his 4th year
At least ten easily better right now and 5 who are arguably as good as him right now. I didn’t even read those weird stats you posted. I look at avg., power, stolen bases and defense. If you need those formulations to come to Howards defense then that says something
What weird stats?
Let me list the ones I used and you can tell me which are weird. Runs, Hits, At bats, Games played, Stolen bases, caught stealing, walks, doubles, triples, home runs, strike outs, runs batted in, on base percentage, slugging percentage and average. But then again those are all below up here I only used At bats and games played in a way to say that you are comparing people who have played way more games and had way more at bats to Howie. Im sorry but I don’t think any of those are WIERD stats but only normal common stats
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
what are you a 10 year old who hopped on his mom's Mac Laptop
’Weird stats"
that will keep me laughing all day.
Face it: Howie is a good 2b not a ‘great 2b. He hits lots of doubles plays a good 2b and hits for average. He also costs us next to nothing and will sign for around 3-4 million for many years.
Fact: A lot of the players you mentioned that are ’better’ lets see them do it for a long period of time, or lets see them when the leave in FA. Funny but I bet Robby Cano won’t perform as well in a pitchers ball park, with lesser hitters around him ‘protecting him’
Uh-oh ... Is Pythagoras finally right about us?
by Sinatrasratpack on May 9, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Fact: 196 career postseason hitter
Fact: Being in Yankee stadium and lineup helps but it doesn’t turn a Howie Kendrick into a Robinson Cano. Kendrick sucks.
Fact: You mention other players doing it for a long time. Most the players I mentioned have. Let’s see Kendrick do it for just one year.
In case you couldn't figure it out it's Howard Kendrick
who is the .196 career postseason hitter. He’s competing with chone figgins for worst player in playoff history.
Hahaha
and you know Robinson Cano is a career .217 postseason hitter, right? And he’s had MORE THAN TWICE the sample size to prove himself in as Howie, too.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Well .217 is better than .196
So what’s your point? To say haha? And Cano is ten times better in regular season. Ha..ha?
Well
as you noted, Cano played his postseason in Yankee Stadium. You also said that Yankee Stadium wouldn’t turn “Kendrick into Cano.” I would contend that Yankee Stadium quite easily COULD turn a .196 mark into a .217 hitter.
Of course if you’re bothering to get contentious by quibbling enough to say “BUT .217 IS BETTER THAN .196,” then you really are being fucking petty and pathetic.
Nevermind that Kendrick would benefit from that stadium…he’d also benefit from being surrounded by Teixeira, A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Matsui, and everyone else padded around him the last few years.
But aside from every other retarded point you’ve made to this point, I have to ask what the fuck you’re trying to prove? That Kendrick isn’t as good as Cano? Who the fuck are you arguing with? Who said otherwise? Who the fuck cares? You mean our 2Bman isn’t as good as one of the top 5 in the game? Boo fucking hoo. So what? What’s your point? We know. Everyone knows. So Kendrick sucks because he’s a top 5 2Bman? Shut up. NO ONE cares.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Weren't you one who said we had one of best offenses in baseball last year
And obviously you care enough to name call and get all belligerant
He did
but the Yankees’ offense since ‘05, Cano’s first year, has been consistently better. But we were specifically referring to the playoffs here, now weren’t we?
You’ve also confused two things here: my “caring” to combat your idiotic ramblings about Kendrick’s apparent woeful inadequacies, vs. me NOT caring that our second baseman may not be the 3rd or 4th best in the entire game. The former is me trying to make you understand what everyone else here plainly understands. The latter I don’t care about because I don’t care if my team has the best player in the game at every position, and am perfectly content having “good” players at a handful of positions.
Oh, and if you’ve posted here for more than a day, then you know I don’t need to “care” in order to call names or act belligerent when idiocy happens.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
There are a lot more than 3 to 4 2B better than Kendrick
There are also a lot of guys such as Ryan Theriot who you could make a strong case as being better than Kendrick so far or just as good. So far Kendrick is not great or terrible, just a middle of the road 2B and he should be better
Nevermind that Theriot is primarily a shortstop
but no, he is not better or “as good” as Kendrick in any way, shape, or form.
Which still isn’t my point in the least.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Well with Starlin Castro
having 6rbi in his debut looks like Theriot will be at 2B for a while. Unless the Cubs prefer Mike Fontenot
Oh, okay
so a guy who isn’t actually better than Kendrick and doesn’t play the same position even, is actually arguably better at that position because ANOTHER guy had a good game at another position, forcing that guy who isn’t better than Kendrick at his different position to potentially now play Kendrick’s position, where he will most likely continue to not be better than Kendrick, but at least now play the same position.
Gotcha.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 10, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
This is fucking hilarious
OK, that’s my one for the month. It gave me a good laugh after a very long eight days at work.
One more point: there are two consistent threads of complaint on this site — (1) those who, like uclahy, bitch that everyone on the roster is not an all-star, and (2) those who bitch that we haven’t given way to sentiment and kept every former player. The two positions are, of course, totally polar to one another, and I don’t know which pisses me off more.
Oh and these number for the following players are just what they have over Howie since he was drafted which isn't even when he came to the majors.
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok now lets look at where Howies' Numbers rank since he first came up to the majors in 06
For a bases to start all rankings are out of 193 2b in the majors in that span that played.
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
Again out of 193
Games played = 23
At Bats = 21
R = 21
H = 20
2B = 18
3B = (tied at 23 but all amounts have multiple people so we could actually say tied for 10th most)
HR = 26
TB = 19
RBi’s = 19
BB = 51
SO = 17
SB = 14
CS = 11 ( you find that not many big SB people at 2nd base at all)
OBP% = 60 (kinsler is 44 and izturis is 23)
SLG% = 30
AVG = 10
(I realized while doing this that it really doesn’t do much unless I compare the all and that would take going one by one for each player so ill do a post on this at a later date when I can go even deeper into advanced stats)
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on May 8, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I got yelled at because I said I'd rather have Pedroia over Howie..
Apparently some people are just blinded by their affiliation.
But really, the comparison isn’t even close. Kendrick has the baseball IQ of a doormat.
I've got nothing.
Or by the fact that Pedroia is just a whiny fucking cunt
who shifts responsibility for his personal failures onto whoever is on the bottom of the totem pole.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I also generally prefer my team's players to be a little bigger...
…than what I leave in the toilet after a rough Saturday night.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 8, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I was smaller back then, so he was fine.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 8, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, lack of an MBA or JD probably has more to do with it
And alcoholism….better make sure that’s in there.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 8, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Alcoholism?
I thought that was a prime requirement for the position?
"You been putting it up your whole life. You just didnt know it" Anton Chigurh
You really think he was the best player that year
Justin Morneau, Carlos Quentin, & I can’t believe I’m saying this, Kevin Youkilis all deserved it more.
Pedrioa is probably the most replaceable MVP ever and his MVP commercials were quite true (warning ugliness after the link)
I play music for your entertainment
Gammons said Pedroia deserved that year
And so did a lot of other analysts. But fine lets say he didn’t deserve it. When is Howie going to be in the same conversation as Justin Morneau and Youkilis
oh man Peter Gammons ( A Red Sux fan) thinks he deserved it
outstanding. Pedroia’s win was absolutely mind boggling.
2008 Pedroia led AL in runs scored hits and doubles
Plus he won the gold glove at a very important defensive position while hitting .326 with 17 hr. Morneau hit 23 hr that year for a first baseman. You have to be blind to not recognize Pedroia deserved it that year.
So he led the league in runs scored?
Boy that must be hard in a lineup that features Manny, Ortiz, Drew, and, oh, by the way, the “other” MVP candidate on the team, Kevin Youkilis.
Youk hit just as well, was on base more often, and hit for better power while also playing great defense.
And I’d STILL take Quentin over the both of them, and Morneau, too. Why? Because an MVP is about how valuable you are. The Red Sox still score a billion runs with a replacement player in Pedroia’s place. The Twins don’t sniff contention without Morneau.
Or am I really supposed to be impressed that a right handed shit like Pedroia was able to OPS 84 points higher than his good-not-great .827 road OPS while he was at home? Because any right hander with a decent pop can hit a million doubles in Fenway. I’m not impressed that a guy scores a lot of runs on an offense that has a lot of hitters, and I’m not impressed that someone can hit for a high OPS in a stadium practically custom built for his type.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
TL;DR - Dismantle Fenway and replace with baseball stadium
…Okay, so I took a little bit of an artistic license with this summary, sue me.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 10, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
The argument wasn't wether he deserved it, but wether he was/is a better baseball player.
In 2008, he was unequivocally a better all around baseball player, so much so that he did in fact win the MVP. Every year there are multiple deserving candidates, but alas only one gets chosen. HK 47 wasn’t in the top 100 let alone top 5.
by Wally's World on May 9, 2010 3:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Personal life?
No, it’s his professional life. I don’t want pieces of shit with bad attitudes who can’t account for their own on-field failures and instead try to blame people well “beneath” them on the social ladder.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on May 8, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
uclahy do you live on here?
You seem to comment on every post. Its like you have to check your blog every hour to see what new post was put up and argue it. Do us a favor and make a post and let people put their opinion on here and just let it be.
"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana
by pendletonmike on May 8, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I just moved in
Rent was too high in porno land. I’m not the jet setter like you and on my Mediterranean vacation or posting from Malmo, Antwerp and London.
that receeding hairline when he was 20 and he plays for Boston, and has anger and ego issues. No he's not on steroids or anything
Uh-oh ... Is Pythagoras finally right about us?
by Sinatrasratpack on May 9, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Small Man Syndrome in the worst way
I know his type well. Usually has a membership to an MMA gym, is typically 1.5-2 times as jacked as anyone else in a given room, spends liberally on “supps” and still feels insecure and defensive because of small stature. Clothing such as “Tapout”, “Affliction”, etc is optional.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 10, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey hey now...
Wally Joyner was bald at 12… ;)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on May 10, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
hahaha
best comment so far. More than met his match.
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
More Howie please...
New poll: Lamest post
a) Halowood
b) angels all star 2010
c) yeahjohn
d) uclahy
e) other — be prepared to justify
I wonder if yeahjohn is johnsamo in disguise?
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
we know who you voted for!
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on May 10, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
All idiocy aside, this is probably (fingers crossed) the last year we hear about "potential"
We have yet to see what the guy can do over a full season. As much as I for one still think very highly of his upside, the burden of proof is on the dude who hasn’t come close to qualifying for the batting crown despite having the job for four years now.
"Well, Sorry, I only joined this bandwagon and purchased my synthetically aged hat because...
I had the full expectation that the team would maintain a .600 win percentage or better. Since that is not the case, consider me falling off it until things pick up"
Just blame it on…
A.) Howie Kendrick not living up to his potential
B.) Mike Scioscia forgetting how to be a manager
C.) The Wood effect
D.) The bullpen’s failures
E.) Arte Being more concerned with the all star game than fielding a competitive team
by Balls and Strikes on May 8, 2010 10:57 PM PDT reply actions
I hope this was sarcastic
What could we have done different in the off-season, we offered players contracts, they chose more money, and we got rid of GMJ. We, instead of relying on scrub AAA to fill spots, went out and got Pineiro.
Uh-oh ... Is Pythagoras finally right about us?
by Sinatrasratpack on May 9, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
we should have kept GMJ
he was obviously the key to success for the franchise,
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on May 9, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes it was sarcastic. I'm annoyed by all the "what should the team do/ should have done..." posts recently
First its bag kendrick, then shields, then freaking Scioscia. Yeah the team is struggling, why try to blow it up? Its pretty obvious they have more talent than they are playing with now.
by Balls and Strikes on May 10, 2010 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Not acquiring Granderson is "pre-A"
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on May 10, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Take it easy,everyone.
I think this is guy is talking about the OTHER Howard. You, know, the one that sells appliances.
After re-reading this post and the subsequent hostility, I still don't quite get it
So Howie is “average” or “good”, but how does he “suck”? What is the realistic alternative for the Angels? Izturis is hurt right now and, as I said before, don’t be surprised if he becomes our primary 3B.
MLB isn’t fantasy baseball – you can’t always have the best. Well, until each Yankee Swap season (the Yankees swap unlimited fundage for your best FA’s). Right now, the Angels have maybe two players that can be in the conversation as the best at their positions – Kendry Morales and Jered Weaver. Outisde of that, they have at least a couple “good” players and “average” players, including Howie.
So, uclahy, what do you suggest we do – trade Brian Fuentes to Atlanta for Martin Prado because they need more saves? Again, this isn’t fantasy baseball, so nothing like that is gonna work. In MLB, you have to accept the contractual, financial and business realities of each team’s current situation and go from there.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 10, 2010 10:30 AM PDT reply actions
I wrote the post because everyone rants about Wood.
Wood is only one of many problems such as our bullpen and starting pitching outside of Weaver and maybe Santana. Also it’s easy to hate on Wood but he’s only been here a month with spurts of being called up here and there throughout last 3 years. Then no one ever talks about Howie even though for 4 years I’ve heard of his great potential and haven’t seen it. It’s time someone said something. I didn’t say he was the big problem with the team I just wanted to point out that he is not helping as much as he supposedly could.
I see, well then I agree he's not helping all that much right now
I just got lost in all of the bickering over Howie compared to Cano, Pedroia, et al., and I think others did as well. As such, I was unsure if you were trying to suggest we replace him, bench him or if you were just ranting about him or whatnot.
Anyway, I get your point now.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on May 10, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
"He is who we thought he is. . ." or maybe not quite. . .
I am not sure who I am annoyed about more. . .
1) People who are ready to throw the baby out, fire Scioscia, and make wholesale criticisms, or
2) the people who feel that any criticism against any Angel player (except Robb Quinlan), is jumping off the bandwagon.
What am I saying when I (personally) criticize HK?
1) He’s not the player we thought he would be when he first came up. Could he suddenly become that batting champion, we thought we would be getting when he first came up? Possibly, but at this point probably doubtful. I certainly think that he could come up with a Darin Erstad-type abberation year (2000).
2) HK is neither among the worst second basemen or is among the best secondbasemen. That’s what he is. if you think he’s better than Pedrioia, Cano, Utley, Phillips or others in the first tier, you are truly delusional. Unless you want to be laughed out of the building, you should at least acknowledge reality. In the end, you might like the fact that Howie is cheap, is a good clubhouse guy and plays a good second-base. I can respect that. That is reality. With his potential, there really is no reason, that HK shouldn’t already be the #2 hitter on this team. However, he has never shown this kind of talent on the major league level and has never earned Soth’s respect in this regard. I would add that the fact that Scioscia sent HK down last year, shows us that the team is well aware of his deficiencies, and his enigmatic talent. Could you imagine the Padres sending down Gwynn, the Red Sox sending down Boggs or the Twins sending down Mauer to AAA in their fourth year?
3) HK should clearly not be made the poster boy for why the team is underperforming right now. There is enough blame there to go all around. Getting rid of Howie at this point is not the answer. If we were going to get rid of underperforming players right now, we would be getting rid of everyone except for six or seven guys. I am not ready to make wholesale changes. It even ridiculous to think about this at least for another month when the trade deadline begins to loom.
4) Can Howie improve and show us the potential that once had us so excited? I wouldn’t rule it out entirely. But, pining away for this moment, while reading five year old Baseball America scouting reports, will not make it happen. I hope for the best, but if a better option comes up, I will take it in a heart beat.
In the end, I would not be surprised in the least to see Izturis displace HK. Scoiscia clearly has more confidence in Izzy, as do I. I am not saying that this will or should be happening soon, but I am saying that it wouldn’t surprise me to see it happen eventually.
by righteous halo on May 10, 2010 12:39 PM PDT reply actions
I think we're going to see a lot of Frandsen this year
Good to have some pretty solid depth in some AAA (at least in some areas)
Great post
You said what I’ve tried to say in responses to people but wasn’t able to. Also, I couldn’t believe the arguments some people were making so I just quickly responded to a lot of responses.
More rational, but obscures the point
The Bruin has his panties in a twist because he thinks Kendrick is overhyped (though it isn’t Kendrick who is bragging about himself, ever). To that end, he compares Kendrick to other 2B in the game, often lamenting that Kendrick doesn’t hit 30 HR as some of the others do (as if power has ever been a component of his game), or comparing him to players several years more mature in their development (e.g., Utley, Uggla, Hudson). Naturally, hitting home runs has never been a requirement of winning a batting title, but the Bruin doesn’t really drive a straight line with his arguments.
While he has a huge chubby for Adam Kennedy (apparently, he is the high-water mark at 2B for the Angels), those of us who recall with clear optical glass remember that AK wasn’t the defensive player in 2000 that he became in his latter years on the team. He developed that part of his game with a lot of extra work with Alfredo Griffin and game experience. It is sensible to expect the same from Kendrick. On the other hand, Kennedy’s most potent offensive year was 2002 (.312/.345/.449/.795); he never hit as well again over the four remaining seasons in Anaheim, perhaps because he always saw himself as a power hitter and kept trying for the fences with that upper cut. “Doesn’t matter”, says the Bruin, “3 HR in 2002 ALCS. Clutch hitter.”
(In that case, “clutch” might be defined as Kendrick in 2009 [2-out RISP, 333/.388/.467/.854 with 1 HR and 20 RBI; Late and Close, .364/.417/.491/.908 with 10 RBI], but the Bruin isn’t really interested in hard numbers, just his own vague impressions.)
The statement that Kendrick could win a batting title one day irks the Bruin, but in fact Kendrick has shown a capability for posting the sort of numbers which would allow him to contend. Kendrick’s slash line from 2009 (after returning from SLC) was .351/.387/.532/.919. This wasn’t for a hot month but for 199 PA between 7/4 and 10/4. True, it wasn’t over 502 PA, but when one considers that he pressed in 2009 and twice broke bones in his hand in 2008, we haven’t yet seen him play an entire season. It is highly possible that Kendrick wins a batting title in his career, but scarcely the point. What we do know is that he is a very capable hitter who is growing his defensive game (something we all knew would have to happen), and he will be an affordable Angel through the 2012 season. Whether he ever wins a batting title or not, he is a very solid player.
For those reasons, there is simply no legitimate reason to complain.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 11, 2010 4:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Man you are trying really hard to sound cool
“Panties in a twist” and “huge chubby” and always referring to me as “the Bruin.” I hope you think you got some good ones in there. Now back to Howie. Last year we did see him play an entire season. He didn’t get sent down to minors because he was injured, he got sent down because he wasn’t producing. As far as his defense goes this is his 5th year with us. Are we supposed to wait till 2012? And I was also lamenting his speed. 2B may not be required to have pop although a lot do these days but they are required to have speed. There are a lot of 2B who steal more bases than Howie. As far as AK vs Kendrick they both have big sample sizes in playoff plate appearances and AK is .312 to HK’s .196.
So all of this boils down to playoff averages?
Then we should have booted Vlad years before he left. He was the invisible man in several series.
Seriously, when you decide what your gripe is, be sure to inform the rest of us. In the meantime, you’re just changing the metrics in the vain hope of ultimately being correct.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 11, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
You have some resilience
I would’ve just ignored the irrational, reality-twisting dude a while ago.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Also you act like 2002 was AK's last good year with us
He hit .300 in his last year with us. If your comparing time with the Angels then AK was better than Howie so far. ALCS MVP, World Series winner, better defense, .312 in 02 and .300 in 05 and I never heard he was supposed to be great.
Did I write that?
Also you act like 2002 was AK’s last good year with us
No, I sure didn’t. Just not really big on reading comprehension, are you?
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on May 11, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions

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