Joel Pineiro Unlikely to Pitch in 2010 Again
by Rev Halofan on Jul 28, 2010 5:37 PM PDT
in Angels News
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PrintMultiple media reports have made it easy for us to report to you that Angels starting pitcher Joel Pineiro has a left oblique strain that will sideline him for 6 - 8 weeks and with 10 weeks left in this lost season, it is unlikely he will pitch again until 2011.
As the Titanic sank, the injured were allowed to board lifeboats. Just saying.
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Turk’s Teeth had better hope he does. Pineiro’s got a 102 OPS+ and we set 100 as the bar in our bet.
Game's the same, just got more fierce.
Er, ERA+
Game's the same, just got more fierce.
by Sam Miller OCR on Jul 28, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the first thing I thought.
Of course, you’d be winning our bet on a narrow technicality. :)
My case against Pineiro was that, over the course of a season, he would be a league average pitcher (or worse), he’d be injury-prone, and his reliance on one pitch would lead to higher walk and homerun rates this season.
All those things are true, or were trending in the direction of being true. I expected an ERA around 4.50, which would probably be an ERA+ of 95-98 in a typical season, and he was a game or two away from that mark.
But I’ll hold up my end of the bet. Though it’s a little like the Dutch winning the World Cup through strategic use of yellow cards. Sam, I’ll buy you a hoodie just to hide the shame amid your success. :)
Actually, I just checked the email and we set a 25-start minimum. So unless he comes back in time to get five more starts, we’ll tie on a technicality.
The funny thing is that Pineiro is just what you feared he’d be, and just what I hoped he’d be, and yet we still disagree on the signing. Fangraphs has him worth $9 million, incidentally, so that basically has his signing at a push, too.
Game's the same, just got more fierce.
by Sam Miller OCR on Jul 28, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought there was a qualified starts life-raft.
Ain’t that just like the rest of the “meh” of this season.
Of course, just to nudge the goat, the Fangraphs valuations do fluctuate — if he had continued his trajectory (6.23 ERA post-ASB) his aggregate value would likely have decreased.
Blind luck he went down for the season to make him even money and Swiss of us all.
I would wager you would have lost the bet if he had finished the season
His trajectory post ASB isn’t so much a trajectory as one lousy start against the Yankees.
He’s had one of these type (in general) of starts per month. But overall, he’s been quite good value has Joel.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Jul 28, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I very much doubt it.
Over the course of the season, pitchers often break down (which is what we see here in catastrophic fashion). He’s been leaving balls up in the zone more regularly, and his bad start against the Yankees wasn’t bad luck — it was bad control. My point in the OCR article was that pitchers that rely on one complicated pitch are very vulnerable, especially to small injuries over the wear and tears of the season. Had this not been such a disruptive injury, he might have hid a lot of smaller ones, and just declined slowly.
It’s been a good year for pitchers. The league average ERA is 4.21 (Pineiro’s at 4.18). Pineiro’s the definition of an average pitcher. But he’s also an average pitcher who just pitched the fewer number of starts in his career as a starter since age 22.
I’m not sure that meets the definition of “quite good” value.
I don't think anyone said that Pineiro's start against the Yankees was bad luck, it was a poor performance by him.
But I think it’s odd to say that his 1 start against the Yankees is indicative of how he is likely to pitch the rest of the season.
I disagree, you're doing Pineiro a disservice
The left oblique strain has little to do with his throwing mechanics and arm etc, its an abdomen strain due to over-rotation etc. It’s also a training injury in this case that sometimes befalls players, not catastrophic (for our 2010 season, perhaps) and not indicative of wear and tear. It’s just unfortunate.
Pineiro isn’t a one pitch pitcher. His strongest pitch is the sinker of course, but the pitch has not caused any wear and tear unless i’m mistaken. It’s been a consistent pitch all year.
He also hasn’t been leaving balls up in the zone more frequently, as far as i’m aware, his PitchFX of the last few games does not show anything he has not done before? I’m not attributing his Yankee start to ‘bad luck’ but surely you can see the speculatory foolishness of extrapolating from this start a trend of upcoming poor Pineiro performance. His performances this year have by and large been very good, and he has lived up to reasonable expectations.
Also as you know, the term league average is misleading. Replacement level is the definition of average in baseball (and not valuable, i.e. SoS or Trevor Bell), a league average (ERA of 4.21) performer is quite valuable as it is difficult to be league average over a long period of time. Not to mention 2010 has seen his best K/9 rate since 2004, and a stronger xFIP and FIP rate than his ERA.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Jul 28, 2010 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well said
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 28, 2010 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Boom
This team is screaming to be blown up. Send out Matsui (if you can), trade Abreu, Mr slowball Fuentes and restock the AAA club for next year. Sheesh they are worse than the Royals and Pirates these days.
Nick, you will always be an Angel. And you will be missed.
by anaheimisnotla on Jul 28, 2010 5:45 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Injured to the lifeboats, perhaps, but WE ARE HALOS HEAVEN!
Grab your instruments, ladies and gents. It’s time to strike up the band.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
by Stirrups on Jul 28, 2010 5:46 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
Women and children to the lifeboats first...
…so you don’t get to “dance” with K-Mo while the band’s playing (women…scheesch!).
And make sure ladybug, agent 99, opiejeannne and…uh…rextookmystash and halowood have seats too.
I prefer to hold Leonardo DiCaprio’s head underwater
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jul 28, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
As long as we aren't required to play "Buttercup".
by sothball on Jul 28, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ragtime, buddy. Maybe a waltz or two.
But anybody caught playing pop is going overboard.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
In that case...
…I want to start with the theme from the movie “The Sting”, and then just about anything from Scott Joplin.
And some stirring marches, of course
And when the water is coming up around the necks, “Nearer My God to Thee.”
oh oh oh let me get my rally kazoo
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jul 28, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It ain't a rally, my friend. Our job is to go down with the ship.
But we are gonna make as much GDMF noise as possible, all the way to the bottom.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
ALWAYS!!!!!
An Angel fan for life here, since the days of the PCL LA Angels. NEVER will leave my team. I Hate this shit, but still love them!!
The Smarter I get, the More I Have To Learn
by Hapyorange on Jul 28, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
See you next year, Pinata.
Maybe Kaz will figure out how to pitch by then and we’ll have a good rotation in 2011.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
It'll be pretty good without Kazmir...
And that’s not factoring in when we sign Cliff Lee.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Jul 28, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously blow this team up please...
If we aren’t sellers yet Reagins needs to get his head out of his ass. Not trading the dead weight is a missed opportunity.
by Nashdiesel on Jul 28, 2010 6:10 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Seriously. . .
cut the fat and give a cup of coffee for AAAll.
If ain't nothing wrong, something just ain't right.
Jo-el was a better suprise than many of us thought he would be.........
might as well shut him down…….because 2011 is gonna be a banner year!!!!
Chan Gailey's #1 Fan!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 28, 2010 6:14 PM PDT reply actions
This blows the chunkiest of chunks...
No way SOS is traded if this was known in advance. Just plain dammit! Break ’er a part, get some goodies for next year. Just plain dammit!
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
by Slasher52 on Jul 28, 2010 6:17 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is true
Right now we’ve got a 3 man rotation. We sure could use SOS, maybe even Will Smith. All so we can play Callaspo and keep Frandsen on the bench. Never saw the point of that. Oh well. Trevor Bell gets a full shot at the rotation now, and we’ll probably see the return of Matt Palmer sometime soon.
Play Bourjos because we’re all sick and tired of Rivera. Get Wood another 150 at bats since the season is lost anyway. Might as well give him one more shot for the hell of it before we release him.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Jul 28, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I agree with each of your points.
Baby Bozo will definitely claim one of the slots in the rotation, and Rosey may pick up a start or two before Kerosene Kazmir comes back. I wish Trevor Reckling was having a decent year; if he’d kept the pace he had from previous years, this would be a no-brainer.
I can’t wait to see Bourjos, and I see no reason to not deal one of the outfielders to free up a spot and add some more talent to the upper levels of the farm system. Of course Hunter stays, and Abreu will likely stay due to his contract, but the affordable Rivera or the expiring contract of Matsui could entice someone to make a swap.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I’ll say
maybe trade Rivera, but keep Matsui until his contract expires. He brings the Japanese media in which means more money to sign Crawford. We need all the extra money to sign Crawford and his contract will expire this year.
That's a decent point
But I’d wager that the big money from sponsors has already been paid, so 2 months of no Godzilla won’t be a killer to the potential signing of Crawford especially if another team picks up the remainder of his 2010 contract.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I don’t know
since I don’t know how much Matsui is making for this Anaheim club or the contract for the sponsors. Matsui alone isn’t the only guy pulling this club down, and unlike some other guys sitting on the bench, he’s paying for himself.
He's definitely paid for himself, no doubt about that.
From past experiences in marketing/advertising, these contracts are paid up front for a specified period of time, which in this case is likely the course of the season. I would sincerely hope that the contracts aren’t contingent on Matsui sticking around for the entire season, but unless we’re behind the scenes…we’ll never know for sure.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
TV ratings are up 12 per cent
It’s hard to see what would do that besides Matsui’s presence. It certainly hasn’t been the team’s inspiring performance.
Stop arguing with me, jerk!
Just kidding. Valid point about the TV ratings, however ratings will only remain high if the team is in contention in the last two months…doesn’t look good, obviously. Personally, I have no qualms with Matsui; it’s the contrast with Vladdy that makes us all eye-twitchy with rage. I don’t think Matsui will be traded and depending how the offseason plays out, he very well could be back on a similar contract next year. I wouldn’t bet money on that happening, but who knows for sure at this point?
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
Bell, Palmer, Bourjos, and Wood.
Oh, and yes, getting Callaspo was pointless, even BEFORE Pineiro got hurt.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 28, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
!@#@!#@#%W%$&W$%&%^E%R$Q@$!@#
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
by Clutch on Jul 28, 2010 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
Release the nukes?
Whatever you say, Mr. President!
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Save it for when you take the Bar exam next year
Trust me…..it blows worse than Pineiro against the yankees
by HaloFanInDC on Jul 29, 2010 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions
The nice thing about being out of contention
Is that this really doesn’t matter. Hope he gets some rest, he’ll be needed for a playoff run in 2011.
SOS wasn't gonna save our season.
We need a third baseman.
We've got 4
that add up to 1/2.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 28, 2010 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
We only have two
In all fairness, Izturis is a DH and Wood is not a baseball player.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jul 28, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Izzy is not a DH.
He is a midfielder replacement, in for defence more than his bat, and can spell at 3 positions.
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
Multiplayer Football: http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=16986650
by matthiasstephan on Jul 29, 2010 4:31 AM PDT up reply actions
We need the Super Friends.
Or the Avengers, for you Marvel fans out there.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Does the Super Friends include Wendy and Marvin?
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
But of course.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
especially the slap hitting kind
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jul 28, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
albert's wife just winced
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jul 28, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Blah
Looks like the curse of Anaheim Stadium is back, damn ancient indian burial ground.
#34, never forget.
Those indians really knew how to bury their ancestors in inconvenient places
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Jul 28, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Texas is about to lose
We’re going to back in this in no time
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Jul 28, 2010 7:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I’ll believe it
when we go on a 20 game winning streak in last Aug. to Sept. to clinch a postseason spot
Go Oakland
now there is a team poised to take advantage of the completely absent Rangers offense – cannot do a July roid cycle like the pudge-90s, Arlington… ha ha !
I would never stop LMAO if the A’s win the division! All those Texan heads exploding. Heh.
by NJinHB on Jul 28, 2010 7:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Actually
the As might have a chance to overtake Texas. Even against us, we saw little offense from Texas while the As are a red hot team. If the As go on a streak like they did last Sept. while Texas cools down, the As might be the 2010 AL West champs.
by phoenix15 on Jul 28, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's wrong with you people?
I effing hate Oakland. It’s never appropriate to root for them. I keep hoping there’s a way Texas and Oakland can both lose.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Jul 28, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I hate Oakland as well
We’ve lost sight of that while they’ve been sucking the last few years. I, for one, would much rather Texas get in the playoffs than Oakland, LSB’s douchebaggery notwithstanding.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
This is true.
If one cannot root for the Halos, the only thing left is to root for ESPN, so that Sports American shall ignore the West altogether.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
Oak and Texas still have a couple of series against each other after this one too.
Why not root for Oakland………….Rangers going all in for this season because there is a huge unknown for them financially after this year.
Let the young gunz from Oakland overtake them and then get swept in the 1st round.
Chan Gailey's #1 Fan!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 28, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can't root for the A's.
Just can’t. Don’t like the Rangers much, but they’re definitely higher on the totem pole for me than the Oakland/KC/Philadelphia Athletics of San Jose of Northern California.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
The A's are the least threatening team in baseball, based on superficialities.
Their names all sound like they’re up’n’coming lawyers at Ivy League schools. They’re all built like they’re up’n’coming lawyers at Ivy League schools. And yet they somehow know how to play baseball. They are finding loopholes. That’s what lawyers do.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 28, 2010 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
we went from buyers to sellers in about two days...
if we can get either bullpen help or a legitimate 3rd baseman that will put us in a good spot going into the off-season. if we can’t make deals prior to july 31, put virtually the entire team on waivers, see who claims any of our guys then make a deal to oick up help in the pen or 3b.
Agreed, we really need to "oick" up the pen.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 28, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
The Rangers TV announcers are continually boasting that...
there’s around 38K at the Rangers/As game tonight. “On a Wednesday night!”
BAAAAA!
God needed a starter. RIP #34
Prolly 33k of which were Sox fans
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 28, 2010 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
That is pretty miraculous.
They smell the blood. I hope there are a lot of witnesses to the Ranger’s collapse. Gonna be fun.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 28, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They never shut up about that on twitter! Kept babbling about having back to back sellout games? BFD!
by NJinHB on Jul 28, 2010 7:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't worry, when football season rolls around in Dallas
people we be saying… “Rangers? Who’s the Rangers?”
God needed a starter. RIP #34
by 3rd Echelon on Jul 28, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My how quickly we have fallen
does anyone here believe that the Halos front office knows what it is doing since the end of last season?
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
They decided to to rebuild this year
They thought they had enough pieces to make a decent run, but this year’s main focus was on building for next year.
and exactly with what are we going to rebuild with
I am open for ideas
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 28, 2010 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
The Rodney signing was terrible
And the Callaspo trade was confusing. Other than that I don’t think the FO has made any bad moves.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
OH sure, you're all saying we give up now....
But they’re going to give you hope. They’re going to start winning..even cut into the Rangers’ lead. You’re all going to begin to look up again…hope will shine once again in your eyes…only to be dashed on the rocks of the season that is 2010. I, on the other hand, have decided to drink myself to happy oblivion, watching every game with all of you fine folks here at Halosheaven and basically not giving a rat’s ass until this abortion of a season has ended. I refuse to be fooled by these fools this year. Enjoy your season, Texas…..it’s all you get, because next year the Kings reclaim their crown and you sink back into the hole from which you came.
by firebird81 on Jul 28, 2010 8:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like every season prior to 2002.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
When it rains it pours
I feel that the Angels of 2010 is like the Titanic. We thought we were unstoppable and great compared to everything. Built to last and make it to the post season.
But then we hit an iceberg (K-Mo injury) and we started to take in water but we believed we could make it, we where ready for this. But then the water kept rushing in and in. Next thing we know the ship snaps in half.
A season lost to the seas of baseball.
Goodbye 2010
HOPE FOR A BETTER SEASON IN 2011
"You dont need long hair to rip off your sleeves and be a badass" - J. Allen
great anology that doesn't apply to anybody who realized that the post season moves where horrible and expected an off year.
All i cared about was seeing b-wood get some ABs, and well, look how that turned out. This season was a pretty big epic fail.
At least seattle still sucks ass.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jul 28, 2010 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Dan Haren told LA Angels Insider Jason Brennan that he “felt fine” after his 30 pitch bullpen session this morning. Haren is expected to make his schedule start on Saturday vs. Texas.
Scott Kazmir also threw a bullpen session and also claimed to be feeling good. No decision has been made as to who will replace Pineiro in the rotation.
I'm more concerned about Kaz's slider than his emotional state
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Jul 28, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, me too...
I mostly posted this because of the Haren update. Pheww… Added the Kaz part on a whim
Little Day at the Stadium?
heard there were scouts for recruiting for 2011
by IWishWeStillHadTimSalmon on Jul 28, 2010 10:41 PM PDT reply actions
that's not good for the playoff hopes this year
but that rotation is looking nice for 2011. wish you guys could have taken care of the sox but hey they’re a good team
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frank Campagnola on Jul 28, 2010 11:14 PM PDT reply actions
TROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eat Him!
by IWishWeStillHadTimSalmon on Jul 28, 2010 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
i complimented your team.
please explain to me how im trolling
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frank Campagnola on Jul 29, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
No idea, actually.
But yeah, we’re pretty well set for next year. Except for our 6~ middle infielders. ._.
that rotation looks nice.
really nice. weaver, haren, santana, pineiro, kazmir. especially if kazmir can figure it out, its especially scary. could very well be the best rotation in baseball.
unless the yanks do sign cliff lee. a rotation of Lee, Sabathia, Burnett, Hughes, Vazquez/Pettitte depending on who comes back is really strong too.
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frank Campagnola on Jul 29, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Was at the game.
All seemed well up until they announced, out of the blue, that Shields was the new scouting pitcher. From there, everything went downhill. Things kinda picked up when the Halos managed to take a meager, desperate 1-run lead, but it all came crashing down, first with the Youkilis solo smash and then Scutaro’s soul-destroying grand slam. I had never seen a grand slam in person prior to this game – suffice to say I wouldn’t have minded the status quo remaining unchanged in that category.
But the WORST part of it, people, was that at the end of the game, there I was, one of perhaps 3 or 4 Angel fans in a section completely filled with Red Sox fans. When the last Angel was retired, I sat alone among an entire section of people standing on their feet, applauding their conquering heroes. IN FREAKING ANAHEIM.
Tell me, folks, how this season could get any worse.
Don't be too down about it
Bandwagoners lead such a miserable existence that if they actually stopped to think about their life it would probably make them cry. The only joy they can painfully extract out of life is pretending to know the name of a few players on a popular team. They once heard that being a sports fan was cool so they decided to try it out.
I knew a guy in college who’s favorite teams were (and I’m not making this up): the Detroit Red Wings, Yankees, Patriots, Lakers, and USC for College football and Duke for basketball. I don’t even think he had lived in ANY of those cities.
"You keep shooting. You hope it goes in, and you smile." -Teemu Selanne
This guy must have lived a happy life:
I knew a guy in college who’s favorite teams were (and I’m not making this up): the Detroit Red Wings, Yankees, Patriots, Lakers, and USC for College football and Duke for basketball
Although the Patriots were pretty crummy for a long time in the 1990’s. Maybe that’s when this college acquaintance was born? Dunno.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 29, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
How could that be worse?
Having it happen during a playoff game.
In 2007 and 2008 I was sitting in the middle of RedSux Central (510-ish).
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
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