Angels Most Important 36 Hours Start Now
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2010 2:24 AM PDT
in Angels News
Email
PrintFrom 6 AM today - Friday morning, until 6 PM Saturday afternoon, the Angels can decide the future of their organization (from its payroll to its minor league system) more thoroughly than at any time since Arte Moreno's infamous pre-2004 season Free Agent splurge (signing Vlad, Escobar, Colon and Guillen). In that time, can they get younger, cheaper and better as they retool for 2011?
Jered Weaver, Dan Haren, Mike Napoli and Ervin Santana have to be considered untradeable. Torii Hunter has a no trade clause. Scot Shields, Joel Pineiro and Scott Kazmir are untradeable. Alberto Callaspo was added as a longterm solution recently. So that is ten members of the 25-man roster. There could be a desperation bombshell offer for Santana or Napoli ahead... but nah.
Most Everyone Else: Trade deadline deals are almost always for veterans. The "why" as to this is endlessly debatable, but 30 out of 30 front offices trade for veterans when they are in contention. So no prospects are getting traded (unless there are prospects coming back in a deal) nor are any up-down minor league bubble players, nor guys who have spent a significant amount of time on the DL (Matt Palmer, Maicer Izturis) and the following Angels are not going anywhere either: Kevin Frandsen, Kevin Jepsen, Reggie Willits. No contender is going to take a gamble on Brandon Wood.
Good Contracts, Iffy Players:
Brian Fuentes is finishing up a $9 million season. He turns 35 in August. If he finishes 30 more games (no way), he will vest the same salary for 2011.
Hideki Matsui will be a free agent after this year. He is owed the remainder of his $6 million salary for 2010.
Juan Rivera just turned 32. He will make $5.25 million next year.
Fernando Rodney is slated to repeat the same $5.25 million salary in 2011 as he got this season. He turns 34 in March.
WILD CARDS:
Howie: What contending team could use an average fielding 2B who is 27, has a career batting average of .294 but an OPS of just .752 and will be going into his year 2 of 3 arbitration years after making $1.75 million in 2010? He has had 3+ years in the bigs but has never played a whole season due to injuries? Does anyone want Howie Kendrick. If we can get a B+ pitching prospect from AA, trade him. If you consider Howie untradable, please substantiate a reason to keep him other than your "HOPE" that he will one day be good - he is not league average for his career, is having a down season... and it is getting time for Smiley McGroundout to hit or get off the lot.
Aybar: His fielding is his best commodity and his bunting prowess (despite that '08 ALDS foible) helps. He made $2 million this season and has two more seasons of club control arbitration ahead of him. Erick Aybar turns 27 in January.
Mathis and Wilson: Backup catchers are a commodity. Maybe it is a stretch, or a hopeful prayer, but Jeff Mathis (Arb 2 and 3 ahead) and Bobby Wilson (club control four seasons after this one) have some value as a trade chip.
Bad Contract, Iffy Player
Bobby Abreu will be 37 next March. He will make $9 million next year. With a healthy season (550 PA) in 2011, he will vest a $9 million paycheck at age 39 in 2012.
WHAT CAN THEY GET?
It is time to get younger and cheaper. Prospects by the bushel, please, even if we throw salary relief toward the contending teams. Trade with Texas, Boston, Oakland, the Yankees, the Yomiuri Sea Monsters... ease this payroll now and see what 2 months of 4-A can do for our minor league bubble boys. Make 2010 a scouting combine... build now for 2011, it is a mere 58 games away... ehhhh... chances are that they will do nothing, but we can dream can't we?
145 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
How would Buster Olney
Isn’t the Ninja ninja?
the other teams
have yaketty yak mouths
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
i like aybar
i really think he continues to develop. he’d have a higher avg this season if he wasn’t trying to be what chone figgins was last season. once he got aggressive, his numbers took off once again.
i like howie, but i’d be happy to get some good minor league pitching in exchange for him. when pineiro went down and i looked at our options, i got a little sick. we really don’t have much ready to pick up our big league pitching staff.
His line since June 3:
.331 .366 .434 .799
Not the world’s greatest player, but certainly worth keeping as he’s only 26 still and provides good D.
i agree about salary relief, and mostly i hope someone will take fuentes. he won’t be back next year, that’s for sure, and i’d love to get something of value for a guy who’s found his groove as the angels have lost theirs.
i think matsui is moveable, but i doubt abreu’s going anywhere. i’m fine with this.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel
saw the olney tweet, didn't see this jon heyman one until now
“#angels could be another rearranger (like rockies), teams hope they put rodney out there. fuentes has no value at this point.”
there are teams that WANT Walking Wodney? Trade him for ANYTHING, Ninja!
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel
Goes to show how teams value the arm of someone who can throw at 97MPH
albeit erratically.
Hard to Believe
That Gascan Rodney has more value than Fuentes, who is (a) lefthanded, (b) more effective, and © not signed beyond 2010 (assuming his option doesn’t vest, which it won’t).
This may not be fair,
but my two biggest performance dissapointments so far this season have been Brandon Wood and Juan Rivera. Unless he’s traded for something, don’t we all expect to see Bourjos somewhere in our OF sometime next season?
Acquiring Callaspo temporarily solves a problem at 3B, but the slow-afoot, durable clone makes Izturis’ attributes expendable.
If you read comments from MFY fans, they would love having Matsui back.
It would take a lot of guts for Reagins to trade Kendrick
Agree about Rivera & Izturis...
Trade Rivera now please. Frees up $ for next year. And Mice-tits is fine, but we have met our quota of middle infield types with nearly identical skill sets (Aybar, Howie, Izturis, Callaspo)
I agree...
never thought I would be saying, “GA woulda had that”.
"I know Lackey...let's have a spelling contest."
by autry's cowboys on Jul 30, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
rumors are that yanks not interested in getting stan back
that’s why heyman’s saying, anyways. i love that the deadline is over tomorrow, because barring a waiver wire deal, speculation can end tomorrow.
i just want to see our young guys get out there and play. if we do trade HK, is there really a problem with marching bwood out there every day? he’s not going to cost you anything for another test run since you’re already out of the playoffs, and if he stinks bad enough, you may get a better draft pick in 2011!
also, if we dump an OF/DH, bourjos could actually see some major league time before spring training. and then some more time next year. and then the year after. then we’ll open up a position for him and we’ll all wait three months for him to hit above .170, all while claiming he needs “time” before giving up on him and moving on.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel
the Wood experiment is over
If he was going to do anything, he would have shown some spark by now. Trotting him out every day will only serve to further frustrate teammates and fans. Unless your goal IS an empty stadium??
If the goal is to get younger and cheaper...
…why get rid of Howie or Aybar? It is not that I’m a huge, sentimentalist fan of either, but it does not seem that any viable replacement would be younger, cheaper, or, frankly, better.
Our only catcher who likely has trade value is Napoli. The rest of the league probably laughs at the playing time we give Mathis.
I say get cheaper. Trade the contracts on the books for next year (Rodney, Rivera) and build from within to fill those spots. Then we may have a few more dollars to throw into free agency (Crawford, anybody?)
Catchers with good or reportedly good defensive abilities are in demand by many teams.
I hate the Texas Rangers
lol @ "reportedly good"
Mathis is so cheap that trading him saves us very little money, and so bad that he probably nets no prospect of any note.
Cheap?
He makes over a million and he’s heading into year two of arbitration. He’s not worth half that.
He won't get a raise.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
just because Soth says so doesn't make it true
I think other teams will actually look at some defensive metrics…..
Where would Crawford play?
If we were building from within to fill the spot of Rivera as you say. Isn’t Crawford a left fielder?
I'm not sure how it'd all line up,
but I’d assume an OF of Hunter-Bourjous-Crawford. I’d prefer to fill from within on bullpen arms, as the FA relievers never seem to be worth their $.
okay...
… IF Howie is traded by saturday afternoon. Is there any likelyhood that Callaspo plays 2nd and Wood plays out the season at 3rd? His value can’t get any lower can it? Seems like it might be worth it for the angels to try and showcase him for the rest of the league in hopes of him increasingly his value. I know this is a far off speculation considering the likelyhood of Howie getting traded isn’t very good. But, like many of you have said… Howie could net us a decent arm. Something I think might be of more value right now than the “potential batting title”.
by AlohaHalofan on Jul 30, 2010 8:01 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I think if the Angels give up this season...
playing Wood full-time wouldn’t be to showcase him, but rather to see if he’s an option at third going forward. If they decide the season is over, they may as well play Wood everyday.
Playing Wood everyday would be
to get the best possible draft pick next year.
he could perform with less pressure
now that they aren’t in a pennant race. you never know
by 2pintsofbooze on Jul 30, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
If Howie is traded, we will be all out of players who smile.
Vlad and Figgins having left last year.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's absolutely not true that teams wouldn't want Fuentes
you can’t tell me some team out there doesn’t see his stats against lefties and want to turn him into a setup guy where there are 2 lefties scheduled or just have him be a LOOGY some games.
Lefties have 30 abs against him this season. 4 hits all of which are singles, only 1 walk and 13 K’s.
agree 100%
I actually think he has the most value of anyone they’d trade. hearing that teams are interested in Rodney is semisurprising, but if there are teams that are interested in him then there is no doubt that Fuentes holds value as well.
by 2pintsofbooze on Jul 30, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I've talked to people here in Colorado that think Fuentes is a god.
They were surprised that he isn’t all that loved in Halo land..
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Jul 30, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
How many "non-Angel" contracts are due to come off the books?
I know the Angels have been paying a few former players (like Gary Matthews Jr) this season, and I’m curious how many of them will be gone next year to open up money in the budget, or will still be on the Angels “welfare” roles next season.
W6G
We ain’t sellin’! The Angels are going to apply the HURT on the Rangers. Next stop, first place!
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jul 30, 2010 8:54 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You mean second place?
Because right now, we aren’t in it.
Well i guess the A's could go on a run,
tie up Texas with us being a 1/2 game back and skip them both up in one game… Possible but not likely.
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Jul 30, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
The most difficult part in discussing players we want to see traded
is the realization that another club would actually have to WANT the dead weight garbage we want to shed.
The several days leading to the trade deadline
are the most mentally taxing and emotionally draining days of the year. They take more out of me than playoff games do.
Juan Rivera just turned 32?
Wow. To be honest, I thought by looking at him, rounding out and slowing down, that he was in the twilight of his 30’s. It sort of reminds me of when the Angels traded Jim Fregosi for Nolan Ryan, and I assumed Fregosi was in his late 30’s. Turns out he was only 30. But it was what a writer called an “old” 30. Same as Juan being an “old” 32.
I don’t really see Rivera “springing back” to his production of days gone by, any more than Fregosi did after leaving the Angels.
very doubtful.
I don’t trust Dominican or any latin american born player’s age.
Seen the numbers jump too many times.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
Who knows how old he really is.
I doubt Venezuelan birth certificates are any more reliable than Dominican.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Thoughts on Howie
He’s still got a bit of upside, he’s cheap, and we’d be selling low. Yeah, it’s overly optimistic to think he’ll ever become that batting champion, but he’s not one of the problems on this team.
The problems are:
Rivera
Rodney
Kazmir
The rest of the bullpen aside from Fuentes and maybe Jepsen
Abreu, although not a huge problem
Those are the guys who are due significant money next year whose performance can be replaced much cheaper. Well, those guys and the bullpen which is simply craptacular.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I agree with you on Howie
for all the reasons you cite, but also because I just don’t see whom we could park there or acquire who would be an improvement in 2011.
It would be an interesting experiment, perhaps, if we give up on this year to try Wood back at SS and put Howie at first just to see whether Wood would do better somehow, and if that miraculously went well then Howie would be expendable in the off-season. Otherwise, I’d say keep Howie.
Someone explain how we are in this situation
particularly with these crappy over-rated old players that really have no tenure in the organization, yet we allowed long standing proven Angels like Vlad, Lackey, & Figgy go sign similar contracts somewhere else. Similar contracts that we are stuck with now? I would rather be in this situation knowing I have old now over-rated players that played here for years and are now declining and are getting paid too much only because they have proven their worth on this team.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 10:29 AM PDT reply actions
Gibberish
Who are the “crappy over-rated old players that really have no tenure in the organization” who have signed contracts with the team that are similar to the ones signed by Vlad, Lackey & Figgins?
I think you meant Jibberish
what I am trying to say is that we signed an aging Bobby Abreu but now an aging Vlad. And have made a bunch of average trades since the end of last season and none of these players have looked too good with the exception of Haren and it’s early and I don’t know that I would call Pineiro a replacement for Lackey. Callaspo is a clone of players we already have. And the moves we made to replace players we chose not to sign in the offseason have not made us much younger.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
You can't look at these in a vacuum
No, Pineiro is not Lackey, but he’s also making half his contract, for less than half the years. Oh and Pineiro has a better ERA with better peripherals. The injury was a fluke.
We signed Abreu because we needed a body to play the outfield and he looked like a MUCH better bet than Vlad to be worth the money.
I would agree that the Callaspo trade was somewhat perplexing.
Figgins is not playing well for the Mariners and has a lot of money left on his deal. Plus the Angels needed to give Wood the shot. Yeah, it didn’t work out, but at least it didn’t work out cheaply, rather than not working out for $9 million a year.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
No
The word is “gibberish.” With a G.
First: why sign Abreu instead of Vlad? Well, because Abreu was better last year. Vlad hadn’t been healthy in years. And he could no longer play the field. The two really are not comparable, so that comparison fails.
Second: do you actually think as you write, or do you just have some kind of program that spontaneously generates words? I responded to a comment about signing certain players while not signing others, and now you’re talking about trades? What are the “bunch of average trades” since the end of last season?
And where did the Pineiro-as-Lackey-replacement bit come from? You were comparing contracts. Do you really think that Pineiro’s 2-year deal is the same as Lackey’s contract with Boston? Do you not understand math?
I’ll agree with one thing: Callaspo is pretty much more of what the Angels already have.
But you really should try thinking before you post, and post the words you actually want to use, instead of different ones.
by jjackflash on Jul 30, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
it looks even better, both for production and price...
when you consider Haren/Weaver as Lackey’s replacement, and Piniero as Saunders’ replacement.
If all we are talking about is cutting salary
than which way is this club headed?
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
We're not talking about just cutting salary, we're talking about getting better production for that salary.
Pineiro is giving us roughly the same production as Lackey is giving the Red Sox, for half the price.
So we can have Pineiro and another 8 million dollars.
Or we can just have Lackey.
I would take Pineiro and the extra money every time.
All Things Being =
Who would you rather have on your team right now with this record? That is what I am saying. Letting people go is assuming they are going to replace them with better quality players, if they are trying to win. Or equal players for less money (equal meaning getting us back to the playoffs where we were with our former guys).
Front Office Failure for our 2010 Season
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
I think the only unquestionably bad move the front office made in the offseason was letting Oliver go in favor of paying Rodney way too much money. Every other decision can be defended.
I’d rather have Pineiro and his contract over Lackey and his contract.
Abreu’s contract was reasonable, given his recent production.
Letting Vlad go was reasonable, given his recent lack of production.
Letting Figgins go was reasonable, given his asking price and the presence of a supposed replacement within the organization.
The only downgrade from 2009 to 2010 was replacing Figgins with Wood, and as everyone acknowledges, that HAD to happen at some point. All of the other moves were basically a wash (Lackey for Kazmir, Craptastic SPs for Pineiro, Vlad for Matsui). But guys regressed, guys got hurt, guys didn’t develop, and here we are. Reagins isn’t perfect, but I don’t think the bill for this falls completely on him.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Letting Oliver go??
If I remember correctly (please someone correct me otherwise) Oliver didn’t want to be in Anaheim but wanted to be closer to family (hence the Texas thing).
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
Multiplayer Football: http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=16986650
by matthiasstephan on Jul 30, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
People keep making this argument
But the truth is, if the Angels had offered arbitration, Oliver would still be in Anaheim. He could not have turned it down because he would have been unsignable as a 39 year-old middle reliever with Type A status.
The Angels might have had to pay him a higher salary than Texas did, but he would still have been worth it, and they wouldn’t have had to take on the risk of a second-year vesting option. Any way you slice it, the Oliver-Rodney cock-up is a legitimate blemish on Tony Reagins’ record. And I say that as someone who has moderately positive feelings about Tony Reagins.
He could have retired, right?
Again, based on my memory, that was the rumor floating around. He wasn’t staying in Anaheim regardless and we (as a class organization?) let him go play near his family.
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
Multiplayer Football: http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=16986650
by matthiasstephan on Aug 1, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Disagree about the Abreu signing.
His SLG has been trending down for a while. That should have been a warning sign not to do a 2 year deal with a vesting option.
He should have been offered a one year deal or maybe one plus an option. If he could only get a one year deal after his last season with the Skankees, why would we go 2+ after he’s a year older and declining?
Warning: The message above may or may not contain sarcasm. Read and interpret at your own risk.
by snowhor on Jul 30, 2010 2:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I still think it was reasonable
The other options out there for that price weren’t any better, and Bobby got bonus points for his effects on the clubhouse. A lot of older players signed one year deals that offseason because of the economy.
I think the Angels overpaid somewhat, but I also don’t think they could have foreseen this decline this year. I think seeing this season’s stats next year would have been predictable, but that would have made him worth the money this season. Plus the Angels didn’t have anyone within the organization to replace his production (no, Bourjos would not replace his production).
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Abreu has simply underperformed in 2010...
2009 he played 150+ games, had 100 Rs, 100 RBIs, batted .290+ with a .390 OB%. Even given a slight decline, he wasn’t horribly over paid.
That ignores the declining power an the fact he's 36 this year.
Go ahead and bring him back for the 1 year deal, but the 2 plus vesting option wad shortsighted.
Warning: The message above may or may not contain sarcasm. Read and interpret at your own risk.
by snowhor on Jul 30, 2010 2:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Even 2 is understandable, if risky
The vesting option could very well be disastrous.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Agree it wasn't the dumbest thing we did.
You want predictably bad from day one, look at FernRod.
Though, the Abreu deal could end up looking a lot worse next year when he reaches 550 PAs and the option for ‘12 vests. He’s at 441 now while posting an 82 OPS+. That production should push you into a platoon.
Let’s hope the threat of the option vesting overcomes Soth’s love of proven veterens next year.
Warning: The message above may or may not contain sarcasm. Read and interpret at your own risk.
by snowhor on Jul 30, 2010 2:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Platoon?
Depending on what happens in the offseason, I can envision a scenario where Abreu doesn’t start against lefties, and is sharing the DH role (Napoli?), while rarely starting in the OF, such that he misses the vesting option.
Abreu's at a 104 OPS+ this year according to BRef
Which isn’t great, but not bad either. I’m not sure where you saw 82. And the slugging decline isn’t quite as alarming when you figure in the move from Yankee Stadium to Anaheim.
But yeah, this could look bad if the decline continues and the option vests. I’d be fine with trading Abreu for prospects. I’m just saying at the time the deal was made, I don’t think it was all that bad. And I think there were non-statistical factors as well. I don’t think there’s any way to figure out if those are actually worth anything.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I, ah, can't read or write.
Don’t know what I saw that said 82. I was on BRef and was actually surprised when I somehow saw 82 because I didn’t think he was that bad.
Oh well, 104 doesn’t change my thoughts on the 2+1 contract for a guy who provides no defensive value.
Warning: The message above may or may not contain sarcasm. Read and interpret at your own risk.
by snowhor on Jul 30, 2010 4:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Was that the Jeff Goldblum Celebrity Jeopary?
I know it’s from Celebrity Jeopardy, but I can’t quite place the quote. It’s either Goldblum, Nick Cage, or Tom Cruise. I haven’t seen those in so long.
Anyway, the +1 is scary to me. The two years I was fine with, although I expected a more gradual decline than what we’re seeing.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Goldblum. Nice catch.
Warning: The message above may or may not contain sarcasm. Read and interpret at your own risk.
by snowhor on Jul 30, 2010 11:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The only person anyone remembers from Celebrity Jeopardy is Sean Connery
Though that’s not what your mother said…
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Thanks for pointing out 104 by the way.
I actually spent some time wondering how the hell he could have a mid .300s OBP and a SLG over .400 and end up with that 82 OPS+ before I had to remind myself that I’m at work and should being doing something productive.
Warning: The message above may or may not contain sarcasm. Read and interpret at your own risk.
by snowhor on Jul 30, 2010 4:16 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
one thing i disagree with is Abreu's contract
2 yrs and vesting option, adn the $$$, i think it was too much. i would have rather gone yr to yr.
The pseudo-logic burns my eyes
So you’d rather lose with the guys you used to win with than lose with the guys you thought you were going to win with? I guess that makes sense in some non-reality I don’t fully understand. The front office tried to buy low on veteran production and take draft picks instead of overpaying for guys past their prime. It’s a reasonable strategy, and it worked last year.
This year the Angels had some tough breaks. Literally, in the case of Morales. Pineiro would have been a tough loss if the team was still in contention. But some guys are just flat out playing worse than they should be. Abreu, Matsui, and Rivera are getting up there, but they projected to be better than they’ve been this season. Kendrick, Aybar, and Napoli all have better track records than their body of work this seaosn. And we know now that Wood and Kazmir are both disasters, but they deserved their chances when the season started.
The Angels could be in a much better place right now if things had played out even at a moderately optimistic level. But shit happens. At least they didn’t mortgage the future putting this team together. Tony Reagins was even able to leverage the farm system to get a great price on next year’s ace. 2010 is a disappointment, but there’s no reason to be bitter about it.
Not bitter, Frustrated
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Not all things are equal...
the contracts are never equal. Maybe 2010 has to be a down year (which is likely would have been with the current versions of Lackey & Figgy as well), but not shelling out huge $$$ for declining production means that 2011 won’t be a down year.
Agreed about Rodney & Oliver. Everything else seemed to be a wise, shrewd decision at the time.
Re: All Things Being Equal
I don’t have a problem longing for “the good ol’ days.” Heck, I miss Figgins and Vlad as much as anybody.
But it’s one thing to miss those guys. It’s another thing to criticize the front office for letting them go in favor of younger/cheaper/better options. The Angels do not operate with an unlimited budget.
So be sad that those guys are gone, but don’t criticize the front office in the same breath. They did their job pretty well.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
If the FO's job was to tank in 2010
you are right, they succeeded
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
i don't completely agree with DR but
i still feel like we should have waited out Vlad, not be rushed into signing DH to replace him on the roster.
Or are you just trolling at this point?
Let me know if that’s the case, and I’ll leave you to your illogical complaining.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I think that is a highly pertinent question
I see two plausible answers to it: either Arte is trying to cut costs in the face of declining attendance, or he is seeking to free up payroll for investments in long-term improvements at key positions. We’ll just have to wait to see which it is.
replying to No
We all can’t be as perfect as you can we? Thank you for pointing out your percieved superiority in journalism.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, you're the one who corrected him in the first place
So why are you getting all upset when he re-corrects you? That seems a tad hypocritical, no?
Defending maligned chants since 2009
by Gorbachav5 on Jul 30, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe? hahahaha
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Um...
You’re suggesting the solution to our problem is to make the problem worse? If we had signed Figgins and Lackey and Vlad we’d be in even more trouble.
I agree. Though, theoretically, signing Vlad would have not put us in trouble
If we offered the contract he ended up signing with Texas, we’d be fine. But we had no way of knowing which Vlad we were gonna get.
But, in the long run, resigning Figgy & Lackey to big $ deals was NOT the answer! We have 2 better pitchers than Lackey now in Haren & Weaver (both cheaper too!) We tried to fill the offensive holes on the cheap (Abreu & Matsui), but those guys haven’t performed great this year. We were trying to contend again, but it didn’t pan out. Luckily, we attempted in a frugal manner (bullpen notwithstanding), so we can more easily get younger & reload for 2011 contention.
All things being equal
Who would you rather have on your team right now with this record? That is what I am saying. Letting people go is assuming they are going to replace them with better quality players, if they are trying to win. Or equal players for less money (equal meaning getting us back to the playoffs where we were with our former guys).
Front Office Failure for our 2010 Season
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Not all things are equal
a few bad, huge contracts could hamstring us and render us non-contenders for several seasons. We are getting more financially stable under Arte, but we are not the Yankees.
I'd rather have...
Pineiro over Lackey because he has better numbers at a 75% discount, Vlad over Matsui and our current 3b situation over Figgins batting .220 for 9 million a year.
We went 2 for 3. We missed on Vlad. Letting Figgins and Lackey walk was absolutely the right choice.
And
in the case of Vlad, the result was obviously bad. The process, though, was not. You are far more likely to be successful by following a sound process.
Jeff Mathis has SOME trade value, not a lot.
He could net us a fringe prospect in the form of Sean O’Sullivan or Will Smith and we have too many defensive catchers, one has to go.
I wouldn’t trade Aybar, Howie or Callaspo, they form a capable infield (with Kendry Morales) that isn’t terrible offensively and is solid defensively and is relatively inexpensive. But make no mistake, once Howie hits free agency, I’d just as soon give Alex Amarista a shot then sign Howie.
True Tradeable Players:
Brian Fuentes, Hideki Matsui, Juan Rivera, Brandon Wood, Bobby Wilson, Jeff Mathis.
The rest either shouldn’t be traded or simply can’t be traded.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
Rodney?
IMO he’s gotta go since he’ll net a prospect and be off the books for next year.
Untradeable
Numbers are awful, control is awful, money being paid is awful, age doesn’t make it any better. In order to trade him, e’d have to eat at least half his remaining contract and even then we’d onl land an “ok” prospect. On top of which, we’re losing Brian Fuentes after this year. We’re going to need bullpen arms. We just have to hope the Rodney handles the 9th ining as good as he did last year and this year and that this whole 8th inning thing for him is a mental fluke.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
Apparently the Yankees have interest though
According to Jon Heyman
Torii Hunter has some Brain Movage
other teams as well apparently, as noted above
"#angels could be another rearranger (like rockies), teams hope they put rodney out there. fuentes has no value at this point."
"Ballplayers play baseball." -Jose Mota
by Fred Fredrix on Jul 30, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Trade Napoli
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jul 30, 2010 11:16 AM PDT reply actions
his own coach doesn't think he's good enough to play daily
ship him to someone who does.
guy with power who can’t hit with risp and loves titties
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jul 30, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Trade yourself!
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I just realized something. If we're sellers, what do we do with Quinlan?
We could hold onto him, but I think we could probably get a couple Top 10 prospects for him.
wow you're so original
that was so funny, i get it, the irony of him actually being bad, what a totally original laugher, hardy har har har har har… that is a new one here, i bet people start using this as an ironic joke at random times in trade discussions be cause it is …
just
so
funny
ha!
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
dang
that was a bit coldblooded. I see Q jokes every day in every thread, way to call out one guy for doing what everyone on here does for not being “original” enough.
by 2pintsofbooze on Jul 30, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
i think your dang
should be in quotes too
like, “dang”
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jul 30, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you.
Can we please say the same about the Granderson jokes???
Breaking news
Rev Halofan hates Howie Kendrick
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jul 30, 2010 11:21 AM PDT reply actions
no hate
but the blind love for him here in the face of actual results is a disconnect.
by Rev Halofan on Jul 30, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not gonna lie...
I really like his name. It always sounded cool as he was coming up.
I am not in love, but what replacement do you see? Many of us are disappointed with him based on what we had heard, but I’m not sure he can be quickly replaced (as far as production & $).
smiley mcgroundout
what would tori be
smiley mcbatflipwhilemiredinabadcontractaffirmingslumpastheteamplummitsintothelandwheretheA’sandMarinersliketolive
?
maybe hate is too strong, he’s not your favorite player, and is always near the front of your mind when the blame game is played?
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jul 30, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah Rev...the blind love is over
waking up a few years later to older version who just ain’t putting out.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
Howie Kendrick was supposed to be a line-drive doubles hitting machine. But in his career his line-drive rate hasn’t even been average. He’s a decent bat at second, and three seasons of good fielding marks overrule the downturn this year. However, his greatest value right now might be the return he could bring if Reagins can sell him off while he’s still perceived as having an “upside.”
Howie is an below average advertising machine
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jul 30, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
It is Matsui, Fuentes, Rodey and Rivera
Those are the only foreseeable players to trade on this team.
Just netting prospects isn’t the only incentive for a trade, you have to be able to fill the holes you create in the future as well.
Trade Aybar and/or Kendrink and who takes their spots? Frandsen? Wood? Come on. While Kendrick hasn’t lived up to expectations, he has a low contract and decent numbers. Aybar is hitting well and plays great defense. No reason to move him and if you do, you are probably creating a bigger hole for the next 2-3 years than you would get back.
Matsui is gone after this year, if you can get anything for him, that is a plus. He also feels a need for team’s the need a veteran bat, i.e. Tigers, White Sox.
Rivera has value has a decent outfield with upside with a tradeable contract and isn’t a rental. Plus, trading him makes way for Crawford or Bourjos. Along with Matsui, he is the most logical person to be traded.
Fuentes and Rodney – trade one or the other. Rodney has the potential and I still think he would shine in a closer role. He just seems to have more focus in the ninth versus the 8th. Other teams might see this too. Plus he was lights out early before going into a funk. He could easily fall back into unhittable mode. Fuentes is probably gone after this season anyway as he won’t get his option. Trading him would be great for prospects, but unlikely anyone really wants him.
agreed! Objectives should be...
1. Move salary off next year’s books if possible
2. Gain a few decent prospects
3. Not create any huge, un-fillable holes
I couldn’t agree more about Kendrick & Aybar. They’re not future HoFers, but they have more real value to us because there is no comparable and frugal replacement for them!
agreed! Objectives should be...
1. Move salary off next year’s books if possible
2. Gain a few decent prospects
3. Not create any huge, un-fillable holes
I couldn’t agree more about Kendrick & Aybar. They’re not future HoFers, but they have more real value to us because there is no comparable and frugal replacement for them!
Need power at 3rd
Need production from the corners in the outfield. Need more range and more brains in the outfield.
Need to guess correctly on a bullpen arm or 3.
our ss and 2b are fine
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jul 30, 2010 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
Nah mate, we should only be trading for minor league pitchers....
The AA and AAA type, that’s what we’re lacking. Theoretically, if we trade away Rivera, Matsui and Fuentes, we’d clear the necessary payroll, fill the pitching need in upper minors and clear space for players that can help us out. Like Carl Crawford or Peter Bourjos.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
I still think they trade Napoli,
but it’ll probably happen in the offseason.
They want power. We want respect...
BOOO!!!
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice breakdown Rev
The Padres are positioned for a nice run. They recently acquired Tejada, so they are willing to deal. I think Abreu would be a great addition for the Padres, and if they could send back some quality prospects, ninja should be looking into this. Or Matsui?
The Padres OF is total fail..
their combined OPS is like .680. That’s 3 starting OF. Adding Abreu is the equivalent of getting Babe Ruth. We should defin hook them up.
The Padres are pretty big on defense though, Abreu is pretty bad defensively.
With how big that outfield is, I’m not sure the Padres would be thrilled about getting a bad OFer.
Abreu and Matsui are definitely going to an AL team if it is possible to trade them
They have an overwhelmingly negative value in the outfield and shouldn’t play anywhere else but at DH.
Torii Hunter has some Brain Movage
Yankees, Tigers, White Sox?
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yankees are out since they got Berkman
The odds of getting rid of Matsui or Abreu are slim at this point
Torii Hunter has some Brain Movage
I didn't hear they got Berkman
At least we didn’t get him. Phew!
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
we can speculate all we want
our gm is a ninja. there’s no way of knowing what he’ll do until it’s done
One time...
Well crap then
I guess there’s no point of being on HH. See ya guys.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 30, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
My Howie Kendrick pitch
I said this in another thread, but it fits better here:
“Compared to most MLB 2nd basemen, Kendrick doesn’t appear to be anything special, but compared to those who may be available to replace him, he is considerably better.
- On our current roster, Mouser is too injury prone, and Frandsen is unproven.
- In our minors, we no longer have a viable replacement. I haven’t heard a lot of buzz about Nate Sutton, Hanley Statia, or Luis Figueroa.
- The 2nd basemen available as free agents after this season are pathetic, and the best 2nd basemen are not likely to be traded (Cano, Utley, Pedroia, Phillips…). The only two that seem like possibilities [who are better than Kendrick] are Ricky Weeks or Dan Uggla. Although Weeks has 1 more year of eligibility for arbitration and Uggla is supposedly in negotiations for a contract extension.
So, even though we would like to see better production out of the 2nd base position, it looks as if it would be better to hang to Howie for at least another year."
I did forget that Callaspo plays 2B too. But if he takes Howie’s place, then we are left with the same problem we already had at 3B. The FA list of 3rd baseman is just about as pathetic as it is for 2nd. And not too many good 3rd basemen would be available in a trade either. I speculate maybe Ryan Zimmerman or Mark Reynolds. Their clubs may want to unload payroll.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
we got a break
What is the angels FO thinking. I’m glad Derrek Lee stop the trade. He going to be 35 soon, his numbers are down, he’s getting slower, not even batting .250. How can we be that desperate. Maybe there’s something I don’t know but getting another old player who may have seen better days is bad. Angels don’t have a good history doing that and have been burned way more than made a good deal.
I don't think Stan is going anywhere
unless we get a TOP prospect for him.
I say this because the Angels’ ratings are up 12 per cent this year, and it’s hard for me to see any other reason than having Stan on the team.
So, what exactly IS the deal with the TV ratings?
You say they are up (and I’ve heard that), this FanShot from the other day says they are the worst in the league…
So, even after improvement the Angels TV ratings are the worst in the league? How was I unaware of this? (No. Really.)
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
OT: Hi guys! Just checking in from Burlington VT, on my way home
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Halos Heaven
Related FanShots on Halos Heaven
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Josh Hamilton on public relapse: ‘It was just wrong. That’s all it comes down to.’
- Photo: The Marlins’ ridiculous-looking home run sculpture is almost complete
- Yankees GM Brian Cashman lures alleged stalker into police dragnet
- Report: Josh Hamilton had a relapse with alcohol
- Happy Birthday Boy! Wes Ferrell, the best-hitting pitcher of all-time, would be 104
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
