SB Nation Los Angeles Editor's Pick
A Modern History of All-Star Bias
by mattwelch on Jul 5, 2010 2:54 PM PDT
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PrintGoing into today's games, the Angels had the 5th best record in the American League. They also have just one player on the All-Star team. How common is it for a top-6 AL team to have only the minimum of All-Star representation? This common:
2010: Angels (5th)
2006: A's (4th), Angels (6th)
2005: Indians (5th), A's (6th)
2004: Twins (3rd)
2003: Twins (5th)
2002: Angels (3rd)
Gee, what do THOSE teams have in common? To give you a hint, here's a comparison:
From 2002-2009, the Angels made the playoffs 6 times, won one World Series, and averaged 93 wins a season.
From 2002-2009, the Red Sox made the playoffs 6 times, won two World Series, and averaged 94 wins a season.
From 2002-2009, the Yankees made the playoffs 7 times, won one World Series, and averaged 98 wins a season.
Total number of All-Star selections in the 9 seasons since 2002?
Red Sox 47, Yankees 40, Angels 20.
Note, too, that during that period the only AL All-Star manager to refrain from gorging on the selection prerogative was ... Mike Scioscia.
2010: Yankees 6 players so far (team is in 1st place in the AL)
2009: Rays 5 (finished 9th)
2008: Red Sox 7 (3rd)
2007: Tigers 5 (5th)
2006: White Sox 7 (5th)
2005: Red Sox 5 (2nd)
2004: Yankees 8 (1st)
2003: Angels 3 (9th)
2002: Yankees 6 (1st)
The manager's team ended up with the most selections in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, and 2010; and the second most selections (behind the Red Sox in each case) in 2002, 2007, and 2009. Only Scioscia's selections disprove that rule.
Bonus links from last year: Jered Got Jobbed, the Best Angel Non-All-Star Seasons, and Are Angels Disproportionately Snubbed in the All-Star Game? And I need not remind you of the best player in history to never get called to participate in the Midsummer Classic.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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I think the Hall of Fame...
analysis is most compelling. I have already heard people say that Abreu should not be in the Hall of Fame because he only made all-star twice. As if this stupid popularity contest should matter. I don’t even watch the all-star game.
Only problem with Abreu is
he WAS a Yankee and he still didn’t make many all-star teams.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 5, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting numbers.......
but in reality……..It doesnt matter all that much.
Unless of course a guy gets some kind of bonus for being an ALL-Star…….then in matters to him.
Chan Gailey's #1 Fan!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 5, 2010 3:26 PM PDT reply actions
Are the
Yanks and the Sox popular because they are on ESPN or are they on ESPN because they are popular? It’s the classic Bill and Ted paradox.
Captain, there are doubt's...
I'll tell you one thing
The Angels are less popular than they could be because they are treated like a PCL team by ESPN. And that goes for teams like the Padres too.
MLB Network does a much better job of being even-handed, but in general the MLB perpetuates the Eastern bias, to the ultimate detriment of the game.
Yeah and unfortunately
the only way to reverse that is to win a lot of World Championships which is near impossible to do.
Torii Hunter has some Brain Movage
Maybe you're right
That’s occurred to me too. But don’t sell the Samizdat Media short. Blogs like HH are gaining in relevance and influence.
I there defense
(and I’m surprised I’m even doing this) but the 3 hour delay really is a huge factor and, I think, something that has really been cast aside. East coast games are broadcast in primetime, west coast games are not.
The ’bias" comes more from convenience than preference.
Captain, there are doubt's...
BS
and I don’t mean Bob Starr.
Journalists are SUPPOSED to cover the stories, irrespective of time zone. Baseball journalists are SUPPOSED to be knowledgeable of all the teams. They certainly write with that presumption.
Meaning no disrepect, but why, as an Angels fan, would you bend over backwards to find excuses for the demonstrable, documented pro-East bias of the sporting media?
Since when have sports writers done what they are supposed to do?
My local news shouldn’t be fires, stabbings, angry voters and apocalyptic weather either but that doesn’t seem to be ending anytime soon.
The sports coverage on any network is going to first be whatever is cheapest to cover and second, whatever the producers think is most popular. In both cases Yankees v. Red Sox or Tom Brady or LeBron James wins every time.
Captain, there are doubt's...
What about Edward R. Meow?
"I came back with an I-Don't-Care attitude. If I had an open shot, I was taking it."
--The Robert Horry
I bleed Purple N' Gold and Silver N' Black... because of this rare condition, I am no longer allowed to donate to the Red Cross.
by The_Power_and_the_Glory_of_Robert_Horry on Jul 6, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
But....
ESPN never seems to have trouble finding a place in the schedule to air regular season Laker games, do they?
The Angels
have only been a fraction as successful in baseball as the Lakers have been in basketball. Championships, HOF players, statistical leaders, name it.
Captain, there are doubt's...
Well, yeah.
But ESPN is as able to show Angel/Padre/A’s/etc. games as much as it can show Laker games starting late on the east coast. If it wanted to include a few 9/10 EST starts, it could. ESPN could cultivate an interest in West Coast baseball. But it isn’t interested in messing up its 14-hour sportscenter blocks or its East Coast cred.
Whatever
I’m past getting annoyed by the all star selections. More rest for our guys, especially Weaver, is ok with me too.
I normally feel that way
The only reason I’m especially upset is because the game is in Anaheim this year. Yeah, the main way to get mainstream attention is to win, but another way is to have players featured in games like this. And what a great way to drum up even more local interest by having the deserving hometown players play in front of the hometown crowd (which is even more impactful when you factor in that this is, more or less, Weaver’s ACTUAL hometown).
Maybe it shouldn’t matter since Weaver is pitching on Sunday anyway (although I’d be curious to know whether Scioscia would skip his start for the opportunity to pitch in the AS game). But he deserved the honor, especially given that the game is in Anaheim. Next year when it’s held somewhere else, I won’t care nearly as much.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
by Gorbachav5 on Jul 5, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
According to Rev., there was a conspiracy for the Rangers to beat the Angels the other day.
It’s become abundantly apparent that the odds are just stacked too high against us.
Baseball is so fixed. God dammit.
I've got nothing.
Who is conspiring?
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 5, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Where do babies come from?
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 5, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Based on the people who call into "Halos Hotline", I'm not sure that I'd want any of them to reproduce!
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Rev's thought was the MLB itself
in order to inflate the apparent value of the Texas franchise ahead of the auction for said franchise on the 16th inst. Of course no conspiracy along these lines can be proven, but Selig is apparently quite deaf and blind when it comes to the concept of conflict of interest.
I had not been following this particular meme around here, but I was wondering (independently)
why the Rangers got such a favorable competitive schedule this season, and why their back half contains so many games away from the torpitude inducing heat/humidity that is Arlington, Texas of the late summer.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
Very pertinent points
There is not necessarily any conspiracy to achieve a desired end behind all of this, but the fact remains that Selig is phenomenally unaware of (or unconcerned by) the appearance of conflict of interest, or of favoritism. You may recall that he wore an orange-and-black tie to Game 7 (I think; it may have been Game 6) of the 2002 WS.
What we're forgetting
All-stars are voted in by the fans. As much as I hate ESPN, the Skanks, and the Sux, they usually can’t do much to force voters’ hands. They just happen to have way more fans making way more fake emails to vote way more times.
I say “usually” because this year, Girardi could have done the right thing by picking Weaver when the players failed to do so. We can only conclude that he didn’t because he’s a dick.
As for who’s to blame – the fans – I am a proponent of going old school; eliminate online voting. If each team had an equal number of ballots only available at the stadium, we would have fair voting again. MLB’s choice to allow online voting is the biggest factor in why all-star selection is such a joke now.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
Don't be an enabler!
Blame it on the fans, but most fans who vote buy name brands, and ESPN establishes who is a name brand. It’s like having a national media who went out of their way to favor one political party over the other. If John Q. Frontrunner hears all season that Derek Jeter is the greatest shortstop since Abner Doubleday invented the game of baseball, then he will consider it enlightened opinion to vote for Jeter in the ASG.
The Yankees were a name brand way before ESPN existed.
They aren’t the most popular team because of the media. It’s the other way around. The media covers the Yankees heavily BECAUSE they are the most popular, and they want viewers. Same goes for Lebron James. They didn’t make him popular, but they can’t go 5 minutes without giving an update on the guy because apparently a lot of people will go through withdrawals if they don’t know what he’s up to this very moment.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 5, 2010 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
That's your opinion
Chicken, egg, some assembly required.
But at best, your argument merely certifies the perpetuation of a bad thing in re the Yankees. Lebron James is a straw dog here.
It's my opinion that the Yankees have been popular for a long time?
Whatever you say, bro.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Jul 6, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
No, of course you are correct about that
I was indeed misleading.
What I mean to say is that the current overwhelming financial advantage enjoyed by the Yankees and Red Sox is enhanced and perpetuated by what is basically regional Eastern Seaboard-oriented coverage broadcast nationwide.
We can get into an involved argument here to no productive end, because I suspect we would be arguing at cross-purposes. So let me concede that it is substantially true that ESPN covers the Yanks heavily because it is an easy source of viewers and income. All I’m saying is that if journalism is to have any real integrity, then what ESPN is doing is an abrogation of their responsibilities as journalists. You may say that this is just the way it is, and that’s a valid point of view. I just can’t accept the situation so easily.
My points (below) are that what ESPN is doing is an abrogation of their fiduciary duties towards their shareholders.
The Red Sox phenomenon, self-admittedly one of their own creation, demonstrates to ESPN that they have the power to grow market interest, grow share, and thereby grow revenue in markets other than that of the Yankees. That they have, for deccades now, chosen NOT to attempt to do this is an indication that decision-makers within ESPN do what is easy and convenient for themselves at the expense of profit opportunity for the owners of the enterprise.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
I read your thoughts on the subject
You state what I was trying to get across perfectly; even if one rejects the journalism argument, the fiduciary duty argument is much, much stronger. I would only add that whereas ESPN did not create Yankee Fever out of whole cloth as they did with the Red Sox, still the feedback loop syndrome applies to them as well.
I love the feedback loop now transpiring among the baseball press:
Media outlet member: “These Guys are amazing!”
John Q. Public: “Ooh. Thus these guys are important. They are my Stars! I am voting for them.”
Media outlet member: “How can the public be so stupid as to have voted the These Guys over Those Guys?”
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
by Stirrups on Jul 6, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Using the number of all-star appearances...
as the barometer for HOF worthiness is completely ludicrous.
Andy Pettitte replacing Clay Buchholz on the AL roster
Yet another reason why the Yankees should never go to the World Series—to prevent their dumbass manager from further stacking the All-Star roster with his players the following year.
Years later, Clutch still needs to chill.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart, #34.
Oops, forgot the linkie:
http://twitter.com/BryanHoch/status/17822979886
Years later, Clutch still needs to chill.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart, #34.
by cardinalwraith on Jul 5, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Excellent work, sir
I usually roll my eyes a little when potshots are taken at the East Coast Media Elite. Not because it isn’t true, but because I usually don’t care. ESPN and Fox have shit baseball programming anyways. John Kruk and Tim McCarver are about as coherent as this thing, so why the hell would I want to hear them talk about the Angels? But talking to some friends last night, I was getting legitimately bent out of shape over Jered Weaver, and Francisco Liriano as well. Only general ignorance of life beyond the I-95 corridor could have produced mistakes so large.
That said, Joe Girardi still couldn’t tell a good pitcher from a cheeseburger in a pinstriped uniform. He’ll be in trouble when Sabathia is no longer both of those things.
It's why I don't think we'll ever see a "superstar" out here for a long while...
…and why we have not had the type of player to make the cover of magazines and video games for many years before…or now after Vlad.
If I’m a big name player and $$$ are relatively the same, I’m definitely going East or at least big name clubs that get every day coverage because in the end, it’s better for my career in any single way you can name, and also every way you forgot to name.
It is what it is and will continue to be that way, no matter how much we cry.
We might rent another superstah for a bit like Tex, but getting one to come over or stay is going to be the new wonder of the world.
Thank gawd Vlad was low-key and almost every single team besides the Angels was scared to give Vlad $$$ because of his back injury potential.
We lucked out and got to enjoy him while it lasted ;)
BTW, it's why we all know we're going to lose Weaver...
…and Morales (besides the BorASS aspect of it).
Even with Weaver’s family being out here, he won’t stay. We all know it, and no matter how many of you try and argue he might, he won’t.
Don’t make me zombie resurrect this thread when he leaves either. Don’t do it!
I for one am shocked!
I can’t believe that the 4 letter network shows a preference and bias for all things east of the Mississippi. It is what it is, that’s why I no longer watch the all Boston/NY Eastern Propaganda Network.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Weaver even got snubbed in the "who got snubbed" segment of Baseball tonight.
What a F-ing crock of Sh@t they are cooking. Smells bad, I will be rafting on the river, getting some fresh air, instead of giving Selig and Co. any of my time.
Scioscia's greatest failing
Was not correcting the wrongs of history when he had a chance, and putting Tim Salmon on the 2003 Allstar team.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
Observe how, since the WS Championship year, Halo ASG playing time gradually diminishes. This is a combo between voters AND ASG Managers.
2003 – Troy Glaus (start) plays 7+ innings, with 3 AB’s
Garrett Anderson (start) plays 7+ innings, with 4 AB’s, game MVP
2004 – Vlad Guerrero (start) plays 5 innings, with 4 AB’s
K Rod (reserve) pitched 2 outs, threw 5 pitches, facing 2 batters
2005 – Vlad Guerrero (start) plays 5+ innings, with 3 AB’s
Garrett Anderson (reserve) plays 6 innings, with 2 AB’s
2006 – Vlad Guerrero (start) plays 4 innings, with 2 AB’s
no pitchers selected
no other position players selected
2007 – Vlad Guerrero (start) plays 6 innings, with 3 AB’s
K Rod (reserve) pitched 1 out, threw 14 pitches, facing 3 batters
Torii Hunter (reserve) DNP
John Lackey (reserve) DNP
2008 – Ervin Santana (reserve) pitched 1 inning, threw 20 pitches, facing 4 batters
Joe Saunders (reserve) pitched 1 inning, threw 12 pitches, facing 4 batters
K Rod pitched (reserve) 1 out, threw 8 pitches, facing 2 batters
no position players selected
2009 – Brian Fuentes (reserve) DNP
Torii Hunter (reserve) DNP
2010 – Torii Hunter (reserve)
no pitchers selected
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
torii hunter
wasn’t on our team in 2007. and you forgot figgins not playing last year.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
Figgins "was" an all-star, but what a debacle that was
It seems appropriate he is left off the official rosters.
by Balls and Strikes on Jul 6, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Hunter would have started
but he was still healing from his hernia and was on the DL.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Jul 7, 2010 3:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I was reading Salmon's book tonight and cane across this gem:
“I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back.”
by BruinHalo on Jul 6, 2010 9:40 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Well just make sure it doesn't happen again. Mmkay?
Alright Brandon, you're free..........and we're waiting.
flamers jumping to conclusions
So after all the flaming over the all-star team, it’s clear that Girardi was going to name Weaver to the team all along, even though he knew Weaver probably wouldn’t be able to pitch. He knew he had at least two slots (Sabbathia and Rivera); turns out he has a third from Bucholz. Girardi named two of his players to the team. The idea that Arod has very weak credentials is bogus ( he is third in the majors in rbis, and you may recall that he and Pettite were the major reasons Girardi just won the WS). Sabathia is leading the league in wins, is in the top 10 in most categories, and would have 12 wins if Girardi didn’t take him out of a game the Yankees won 14-3 because of a rain delay.
No manager would have left the two stars of the previous post-season off the team if one of them was a Cy Young candidate and the other was on pace to drive in 135 runs. As far as Liriano and King Felix, in a year when there are probably at least 12 AL pitchers having all star seasons, two guys stuck at .500 winning percentages because of bad team play behind them aren’t going to make it. Get real and quit your whinging. Stow the BS about wins not counting. They don’t award championships based on win shares.
Niether do they award championships to individual players.
It’s baseball, not tennis, chess or tiddlywinks. So “wins” belong to teams, not individuals.
But thanks for dropping by and reinforcing The Ignorance of Yankee Bandwagoners. Whing on, revisionist, whing on.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
Does not compute
it’s clear that Girardi was going to name Weaver to the team all along
I wish I had your gift of insight into the inner workings of someone’s mind.
Alright Brandon, you're free..........and we're waiting.
by halofan4life on Jul 8, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Scioscia only needed three in 2003
He took three guys and all he brought to the game was a starter, a winner (Donnelly), and an MVP. And just for the hell of it, a home run derby champ as well.
dirt dumb 12 year olds
As I predicted, Weaver got named to the AS team. Not a tough prediction, it was obvious what was going to happen as soon as he got left off the final five. The dimwits and children among you seem to think that WS champion managers never reward the key players who won the championship for them, as long as they are having a decent year. Did it ever occur to you peawits that the whole second half of last year happened since the last AS game? Maybe along with your nerdy preoccupation with WAR and similar stats you believe that the key months of the baseball season are April and May. The hard truth is that the Angels aren’t that good right now, and the only decent team in the west is the Rangers. Everybody has to reload every few years.
Written as though you obtained all your baseball knowledge from video games.
And the brilliance of your hindsight is blinding.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
Umm the final five doesn't mean you can't make the All-Star Team any other way
See Paul Konerko. And Chone Figgins last year. You can write revisionist history all you want, but Girardi left one of top 3-5 AL pitchers off the All-Star team.
OMG he so called us out
I guess we really do have a “nerdy preoccupation with WAR and similar stats”
Ignorance.
Meanwhile, dumbass,
your knucklehead of a manager has such great command and control of everything going on with the ASG roster, as you insinuate, that he does this.
The truth is that your manager is not that good. Period.
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
1st time AL loses an all-star game in 14 years is while being managed by a Yankee.
Hi-friggin-larious!!
Captain, there are doubt's...
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