Juan Rivera is worthless
by SB Bruin on Jul 8, 2010 2:04 PM PDT
Email
PrintHow, with our supposedly great farm system, do we have Abreu, Rivera, Matsui playing? Why do we have ancient, can't hit or play defense guys dragging us down when we have such a great farm system? I guess maybe the disaster that is Reagins has 1) destroyed our farm system with poor drafts and 2) Absurd signings and trades that have left us depleted and without anyone younger than 30 that can play a lick.
The other option being that Scioscia has an affinity for playing the ancients and won't bring up promising prospects. Case in point 1: Kendry Morales. How long before he got his shot? Where is Mike Trout? Where is Bourjous? Where is Sean Rodriguez?(Oh yeah we traded him for Kazmir) How about pitching? Where is Reckling?
I'm not sure I can stand much more of Rivera, Abreu, Matsui dragging the team down with their hideous play.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
60 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I was gonna dispute all the inaccurancies in this post...
but then I realize is was about as worthless as Juan Rivera. Read up a bit, buddy.
dissenter, dubious and devil's advocate to blog monitors everywhere.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jul 8, 2010 2:14 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Stirrups is right that BallsandStrikes is right that BryanHarvey'sMoustache is right!
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
I'm glad you heard that authentic frontier gibberish.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Stirrups is right that BallsandStrikes is right that BryanHarvey'sMoustache is right!
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
I don't understand
Why someone would come here and have their first contribution be a fanpost. Become a part of the community by commenting and joining game threads before posting uninformed dribble.
Torii Hunter has some Brain Movage
I was one of those, and it was because I had been reading the posts for a few months before I joined
The main reason I joined was so I could post some stuff, then I got addicted to it.
by Balls and Strikes on Jul 8, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Explain my inaccuracies.
Reckling was our #1 pitching prospect and it doesn’t look good for him. My point is that our farm system has no one ready to play and it’s not like we’re the Yankees and we’ve moved all of our prospects for other players. Kendrick and Morales have been in our system forever, where are the new ones that are ready to play? We don’t have any.
As far as Rivera, how could you possibly think he’s getting it done. Or Abreu. Or Matsui.
The Matsui signing in place of Guerrero was one of the biggest head scratchers of all time. In their primes Vlad was 10 times the player Matsui was. They both have/had knee problems so letting go of Vlad and replacing him with Matsui is just plain stupid.
I’m glad we didn’t re sign Chone and Lackey as they were going to get contracts way more than they are actually worth, but signing Matsui was just weird.
Matsui alone proves your theory wrong
Vlad, God love him, lost all perception of the strike zone last year. He was noticeably declining. One was never sure if he would strike out, get a bloop single or hit a ringing double (cue Terry Smith). Signing Matsui, whose approach to hitting was and is much more disciplined than Vlad’s, seemed like a decent move to most knowledgeable baseball people (you being the exception to both there). Sadly, it was time to let Vlad go for the money he wanted from the Angels. That both players have done the opposite of what was expected of them gives people like yourself the chance to use 20/20 hindsight.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
What do you mean where is our farm system?
What do you do on a farm? You grow things. You don’t pluck the fruit of your labor before it’s ripe, at least you shouldn’t. Hank Conger and Peter Bourjos will be ready next year. Mark trumbo, maybe the year after that.
Mike Trout is only 18 years old, don’t confuse his talent for production. Admittedly, he’s probably ready for AA at a tender age. But he won’t be major league ready for another couple seasons. The same goes with all the good draft picks we had, Dillon Baird, Garret Richards, Tyler Skaggs, Tyler Chatwood, Will Smith. And the same also applies to our international FA’s like Alex Amarista, Fabio Martinez and Luis Jimenez.
The farm is stacked, make no mistake. Most of those guys will end up being major league players. But those are guys that will be ready in 2-3 years. In the mean time, we need to keep plugging away with what we have or short term FA’s.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
by Halowood on Jul 8, 2010 3:37 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Can't believe I req'ing one of your posts
I am on a horse!
Give credit where it's due. If I deserve it, give it.
I’d req Phislamma if he ever posted anything worthwhile that was spot on.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
He does, you two just can't stand each other.
And that’s fine, it’s fucking hilarious to most (if not all) of us.
Alright Brandon, you're free..........and we're waiting.
Then I'll try to see his posts from a more "objective" position.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
It's like watching a fight in the quad at lunch back in high school
I just want to shout “OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH” every time I see it.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 8, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
LOl and I suck at detecting sarcasm over the internet.
It sucks too because that sarcasm and irony are all I have going for me comedically in the real world.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
I personally enjoy your commentary
I might not always agree with it, but at least you have something interesting to say.
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
More Howie please...
Spot on Halowood.
I mean , i’m not thrilled with how we’ve played lately, but yeah, the first thing we need to do is rush our guys in the minor leagues, who aren’t ready, into the bigs.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Farm system
Reckling proved he was not ready for AAA. So no chance in the majors. But he’s back to dominating AA hitters, and at age 21. He should still be on track. For a historical perspective, go back and look how bad John Lackey did in his first shot at AAA. The following year he went back, pitched well, got promoted, and won game 7 of the world series. The Ben Linus killed him and he became John Lockey, the green smoke monster, but that’s beside the point.
We had a down period where we gave up our draft picks a few years in a row, and as a result the top levels of the farm system are pretty thin right now. But the lower levels are stacked, Reagins had an amazingly good draft last year.
Jury’s still out on this year’s draft. Taylor Lindsay is hitting like a guy with two girl names and Ryan Bolden has the strikeout problems and lack of plate discipline that is so common to our prospects. Haven’t seen Chevy Clark and Little Bedrock play yet, though they did sign.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
Credit for the draft goes quite a few places before it goes to Reagins.
I suspect the Angels failed us this draft, BIG TIME. As good as last year’s draft was, that’s how bad this year is looking.
2009: Trout was the steal of the draft, Skaggs, Richards and Kehrer all went in the compensation round, if the draft happened again, all would go within the first 20 picks. Haerther was great in the 5th round. Baird was great in the 11th. Signing Locker was a worthwhile gamble.
This year, it’s looking like Cowart won’t sign, Lindsay was a HUGE overdraft, Bedrosian looks destined for the bullpen, Bolden looks like a less gifted version of Grichuk, and possibly worst of all, the guy we definitely SHOULD sign Josh Osich, we probably will fail to. We need to sign him right now because if it weren’t for an injury, he would have been the first pitcher to leave the board this draft, he’s that good.
The way I see it, the Angels made two good picks and that’s it. Wendell Soto in the 3rd round could become an Erick Aybar type of player and Chevy Clarke may be the most physically gifted specimen of the draft.
Just my two cents.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
There aren't a whole lot of players who have played in the majors at 18.
And the careers of those that did start that early, make a pretty strong case to not promote players to the majors when they are that young.
Again (because I used this example in a joke elsewhere), Robin Yount being the exception...
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
here are the players who went straight to the majors without ever playing in the minor leagues
link
Notice the three that went straight from high school- david clyde, mike morgan and tim conroy.
by Balls and Strikes on Jul 8, 2010 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Most of the guys you want replaced...
…will probably be replaced by our farm system on Opening Day 2011.
Bourjos for Matsui in LF with some starts in CF. Rivera will move over to RF where his arm will be even more useful and he’ll still hit 20+ jacks. Kohn will probably get a shot soon and for all we know, a reliever could be brought in through trade. Fuentes and Shields will probably be gone next year. There is a nice crop of competent relievers and starters on the market this winter and with the money we’ll have from dropping the 3 already mentioned plus Speier’s cash, we should be able to sign two without much of a hassle.
Trout needs at least a season each in AA and AAA before I’d call him up. He is only 18 and only in Low-A. It’s barely been a year since he was playing in high school…no way he’s MLB ready now.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
Reagins, if you are reading this, please learn something from the past...
DO NOT give big contracts to relievers.
by Balls and Strikes on Jul 8, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
But it's so much fun pissing away millions of dollars.
Alright Brandon, you're free..........and we're waiting.
Yeah and they make the end of the game so exciting....
I’m always ont he edge of my seat wondering whether Rodney can throw a strike, or if F-Bomb will give up the convenient bomb.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
Well...
Something like 10 mil a year combined for two competent relievers is a good use of money to me.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 8, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Um
Reckling got demoted from AAA after hitters got him too much. What’ll happen if the Halos promoted a guy who got bombed by AAA hitters? Trout’s not even 20 yet. This ain’t 100 years ago where teenagers are playing. Trout is good, but there is such a thing as patience.
Hey hey hey, you agist. Robin Yount played his first MLB game at the age of 18, and that was only 26 years ago.
(This comment not to be construed as supporting the FanPost in any way, shape or form.)
"Wastin away again in Minor-Leaguer-Ville..."
The game and development are different now.
I don’t think there’s an 18 year old alive right now that could be playing major league baseball. If there is, there’s a good chance his name is Mike Trout but I seriously doubt he’s ready. Players are bigger, stronger, faster and just plain better now.
The last 18 year old I ever saw ready for the show was probably Ken Griffey Jr, and even he wasn’t anything worth bragging about until he turned 21. A-Rod played at age 18 but he wasn’t ready until 20.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
Juan Rivera
signed a 3 year, 12 million dollar contract. He was worth 12 million in 2009 alone. But yeah, he hasn’t earned a penny this year.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
That means...
One more home run and we owe him doesn’t it? Let’s hope the accounting guys don’t read this…
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Jul 8, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Quick Profiles
Juan Rivera
Career: .280/.328/.465
2009: .287/.332/.478
2010: .236/.297/.413
Bobby Abreu
Career: .297/.401/.488
2009: .293/..390/.435
2010: .250/.344/.391
Hideki Matsui
Career: .289/.367/.476
2009: .274/.367/.509
2010: .253/.334/.404
All three players:
- have solid career track records.
- performed well in 2009.
- are having career worst seasons in 2010.
Great info.
Still, not exactly comforting.
Alright Brandon, you're free..........and we're waiting.
by halofan4life on Jul 8, 2010 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions
These players might simply be reflecting age-related decline.
However these guys are not that old. It is possible that they bounce back with strong 2nd half performances.
Interesting to note that the Angels youngest starting player in 1982 was 30 years old.
The 1986 Angels had FOUR players with 500+ PAs who were 35 or older, as well as three other 35+ guys who each had over 300 PAs.
The 1982 (93 wins) and 1986 (92 wins) teams won the AL West.
So Angels “trAdition” has demonstrated that winning with old guys is possible.
by Fan Since 1981 on Jul 8, 2010 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
So that's what Arte meant by trAdition.
Alright Brandon, you're free..........and we're waiting.
by halofan4life on Jul 9, 2010 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Here's some encouraging evidence....
Juan Rivera:
Career Pre ASB: 395 GP .262 BA .313 OBP 53 HR
Career Post ASB: 369 GP .298 BA .343 OBP 54 HR
Bobby Abreu
Career Pre ASB: 1145 GP .291 BA .398 OBP 142 HR
Career Post ASB: 891 GP .305 BA .405 OBP 122 HR
Hideki Matsui
Career Pre ASB: 599 GP .289 BA .369 OBP 87 HR
Career Post AB: 399 GP .288 BA .361 OBP 63 HR
These certainly suggest that three hitters our offense needs to have producing, will not get any worse. More than likely, we’ll see an improvement in all three. Potentially a drastic improvement.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
All this says to me is...
that they all are grossly underproducing right now, even if they do better in the second half. Bobby and Matsui are old and are on the decline…they were both a risk to sign and unfortunately, it seems, we lost that risk.
Lets make some things clear: This is the worst first-half these two have ever had in their careers. Is it any coincidence that its happening in their late 30’s??? Not at all.
dissenter, dubious and devil's advocate to blog monitors everywhere.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jul 9, 2010 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Spot On.
Is any coincidence that its happening in their late 30’s for Abreu and Matsui? Not at all. Dudes get old and start playing like it…
dissenter, dubious and devil's advocate to blog monitors everywhere.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jul 9, 2010 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Normally you don't expect
Age alone to hit players that hard in just one year. Abreu, Rivera, and Matsui should play somewhat better in the 2nd half. It would help if they got more rest. It’s a long season and older players need some breaks here and there or else they wear down.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
Decline was expected. Except that Abreu and Matsui are even underperforming the 2010 projections
Given both these players are 36, all the projection systems expected a decline in their 2010 results. But not to the degree to what is actually happening.
2010 Bobby Abreu Projections
CHONE: .273/.368/.415
Marcel: .279/.365/.434
ZiPS: .283/.372/.436
Bill James: .285/.389/.444
2010 Hideki Matsui Projections
CHONE: .264/.351/.437
Marcel: .270/.353/.464
ZiPS: .281/.360/.462
Bill James: .282/.367/.475
There is always a risk with older players. It appears the Angels gambled and lost with Matsui. The Rangers on the otherhand gambled and won with Vlad.
The upside to this gamble is that the Angels are only obligated to 1-year and $6.5 million for Matsui. If it worked great. If it didn’t, move on.
by Fan Since 1981 on Jul 9, 2010 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Guess we better move on...
I’d love it if we could trade Matsui. I hear the Rays need a DH.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
I don't think any team will trade for Matsui even if you paid his salary in full.
Matsui was a bad gamble as far as production goes. Abreu should be doing better and hopefully will the second half of the season but it looks like its time for him to retire after this season. I hated the signing of Matsui as it was surely going to be a bust (I know marketing). If they give Matsui a vacation until the 2nd or 3rd week of September then he will give us some hits then.
Really? You are going to take yourself that seriously? Well I guess someone has to.
I’ll trust the farm system is going to produce a few players in the next year or two.That being said picking up fa’s like these last two years has to stop,guys who the Yankees felt couldnt help them win again and were let go,Matsui and Abreu,both batting 250,i dont think its an aberration.Vlad has one bad year after needing knee surgery for two,even after agreeing to it they let him go,hope he doesnt enter the hall as a Ranger. He would be the first to be inducted as an Angel i believe,that alone would of been worth the minimal contract.C. Crawford is a free agent this year,the first one in a while that would be worth whatever,put him at the top of the lineup plus the defense,how much better the whole team would be on that one move,If not please no more signing players hoping they have one more good year in them.
Anyone wanna hear a funny story?
LuLu’s.com is advertising on halosheaven. Who the hell cares who are they right? Well my wife works for them, she models all their shoes and for those of you thinking their models are hot. JAIL BAIT. The burnett is only 15 years old.
We betrayed Vlad, the greatest Angel. Epic fail.
A.J. Burnet? He's 15? He could play!
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Halos Heaven
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
