Peter Bourjos, Defensive Stats on Baseball-reference
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 24, 2010 10:25 AM PDT
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PrintFrankly, they are beyond the bounds of believability. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/LAA/2010.shtml Through 17 games, Peter Bourjos has a TotalZone rating of +11, which breaks down as +4 for his outfield assists, and +7 for his range. That kind of rate cannot be maintained, it would mean he'd save something like 100 runs per full season. But has he saved 11 runs so far? You look at the plays, count them up, and it seems about right so far. Last night he saved 3 with a catch that turned a 3 run homer into the third out of the inning. Earlier he just missed another, turning a homerun into a double off the heel of his glove (nobody's perfect).
Before last night's game he had 16 games, 54 putouts, and 4 assists. If any outfielder really could keep up that pace, racking up 540 putouts (400 is a good total for a CF) and 40 assists (Even Clemente never did that) in a season, he probably would be saving that many runs. Speaking of the 4 assists, Torii Hunter had that many in the entire 2008 season, and another 4 for 2009-2010 combined. This Bourjos kid is something special in the field.
So far, looks like another Devon White. Let's be very patient with his bat, and not dump him so he can help somebody else win world series titles.
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One more stat
Batting average against, on balls in play:
April .300
May .312
June .304
July .297
August .272
With Bourjos taking over CF duties on August 3rd. Some credit must also go to Hunter, one for endorsing the move, and two for his play in right field, especially his grab over the wall in Boston.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
Wow.
That’s a huge difference. Thanks for the info. It reinforces what I’m seeing with my eyes.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Aug 24, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Torii's quote made me a bit sad...
although I am not sure the context within it was stated, so maybe it should not be construed as sad:
"(Peter) He made the adjustment from the first one (that caromed off the heel of his glove). He concentrated a little more and knew the wall was going to be there, and he put the glove out there and took the hit," Hunter said. "It just reminded me of myself. I know the feeling of taking a home run away from other players. That used to be fun."
Heck, Torii, you just robbed a Boston Red Sock of a home run last week. That was fun last week, but not now? ;)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Aug 24, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I interpret it as Torii saying over time crashing into walls takes it's toll on the body.
When a player is as young as Bourjos is, it is more easily absorbed and easier to recover from the crashing into outfield walls all the time.
I hate the Texas Rangers
Yeah, Torii really hasn't been the same since he put the wall in AT&T on the 60-day DL.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
According to UZR/150...
…currently at an unsustainable 96.9, Bourjos has been the best defender at any position for players who’ve logged at least 150 innings in the field this year.
Of course, it’s fun what you can do with small samples. A full 25% of the plays he’s made have been out-of-zone — putting him in the top five in that category among centerfielders as well. That’s clearly not a rate stat, but it does give some sense of how much of the field Bourjos is covering.
by Turks Teeth on Aug 25, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
On a team where us fans are used to light-weight hitters,
I think we can put up with any light hitting he does. He steps up for everybody else on defense. Let the others step up for him on offense.
(As Jered Weaver laughs and cries at the same time!)
Any time you think you have the game conquered the game will turn around and punch you right in the nose.
Mike Schmidt
even though his average is down
I dont get the same hopelessness I do with Brandon Wood
It seems Borjous is more comfortable and I feel when he makes an out it doesnt carry tot he next AB. With Wood it seems like he get into his traditional 0-2 count and the AB is already over
How come when players go to Texas they revitalize their careers? could it be the roids?
by Sinatrasratpack on Aug 24, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I see some positives
His contact rate isn’t terrible, he appears to have good bat speed. He’s got a bit of pop in the bat, half of his hits are extra bases so far. I could see him contributing 10 homers and 10 triples next year.
I think he just needs enough experience to feel comfortable in the majors, and throw in a few bunts whenever the opportunity arises.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 24, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
there's something about the way he looks when he's playing
there’s an eagerness in his eyes. it seems like he really, really wants to make every play/hit he can.
Something the Angels need
he has drive and determination in his eyes. I love the kid and he is going to be a fan favorite pretty soon, if he isn’t already.
Big Bats, We Don't Need No Stinkin Big Bats!
by angelskid2210 on Aug 24, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I really hope he starts to hit (next season)
His value would skyrocket, if the defensive stuff is to be believed and sustainable. He really is a CF whiz.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Aug 24, 2010 11:04 AM PDT reply actions
Scouting report time
http://www.tangotiger.net/scout/
Fill yours in on the Angels you love (or hate) to see playing the field.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
I suspect that his putouts will go down if teams decide not to challenge him
but I guess that saves runs too.
I was going to write the same thing
teams are going to quickly realize they cant take an extra base
by Balls and Strikes on Aug 24, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be cool
I’m sure you meant assists as teams stop running on him, but imagine if teams were so afraid of Peter catching a ball in the air, they decided not to hit any more flyballs.
Our pitching staff’s homeruns allowed would go to zero.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 24, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Like with Ichiro
no one ever challenges the guy because of his arm’s reputation.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Aug 24, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Offensively, would someone say his comparable would be Jacoby Ellsbury?
Are my hopes too high?
#34, never forget.
I still say Doug Glanville
Ellsbury was much more patient in the minors. Devon White is a possibility though.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 24, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Devon was ever THIS good in the field.
He didn’t have Peter’s range and probably had a slightly better arm. At the plate, Devon had more pop thn Bourjos, though Bourjos has more speed. I think Michael Bourn, but better on defense. Give it 5 years, maybe his OBP will go up.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Pretty strong statement
Considering if I had to make a list of the 10 best CF in baseball history, Devon would probably be on it.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 24, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Mostly because my knowledge of baseball is relatively Angel-Centric....
I would too. I remember him between the years of 92-00, not sure if it was his prime or not. But I honestly don’t remember him ever having Bourjos’ range.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
But you're a college kid now.
What were you, nine or ten when Devon was playing?
Devon was one of the best defenders in franchise history. It’s a little early to be making categorical statements with Bourjos.
by Turks Teeth on Aug 25, 2010 10:03 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I mostly saw Devon when he wasn't an Angel, though do remember him from his Angel days
I’m 4 years older than most college students, was a Marine first.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Just reading the book "The Pacific"...
..and learning about some remarkable Marines. John Basilone. Eugene Sledge. R.V. Burgin. “Shifty” Shoffner.Incredible stories. I don’t know how those guys were able to hold themselves together on Okinawa (actually Basilone was KIA on Iwo Jima). Nasty warfare.
I was stationed in Okinawa for a year....
And the only Marines that I’ve heard of among those that you listed were Eugene Sledge and of course, John Basilone.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Burgin and Shoffner are highlighted in the book.
Shoffner was serving on Luzon near Manila at the start of the war. He was part of the surrender of Coregidor and survived the Bataan Death March. He also survived the POW camp at Cabanatuan. He was transferred to Davao Prison camp on Mindanao, and then escaped. He helped the Philippine Resistance for a year, and then he was pulled off of he island and spent time recovering in Austrailia.
He wanted badly to get back in the fight, but had a few problems re-adjusting. Over a period of time, he moved up the command ladder (due to extremely high attrition rates among officers and NCO’s), and was actually appointed provost marshal for the invasion of Okinawa. Quite a story…a former POW abused at the hands of the Japanese soldiers given control of Okinawan civilians AND Japanese POW’s. They were treated with remarkable care.
As the battle raged in the south of Okinawa, he was appointed to command a battalion, the goal he had pursued since surrender on Coregidor. A great man and a greater Marine.
R.V Burgin was on the same 60mm mortar team as Eugene Sledge. He was written about in Sledge’s book, “With The Old Breed”. You can learn more about him here.
I had the pleasure of meeting Gen. James Day.
Did you know of him?
I'm afraid not.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
See
The story about a very humble man, a product of a generation that most here cannot understand.
What truly amazes me...
…the vast majority of these combat veterans returned to civilian life and became productive members of society. They didn’t complain or dwell on their experiences. Humble, and to me, humbling.
I had heard my father-in-law
speak of Jim Day in general conversation for a few years, including the fact that he was scheduled to receive the Medal of Honor in a few months; they joked about meeting the President face to face, and shaking his hand.
Evidently, Gen. Day, my father-in-law, and another of his friends had become close in Viet Nam in the mid 70’s. I finally met him approximately 1 1/2 years before Jim Day died…..at my father-in-law’s funeral, where Gen. Day gave the eulogy. Gen. Day, the other friend, and myself were three of the pall bearers. I’ll never forget that the three of us, my wife, her mother and sister, sat together having dinner at a small resturant the evening of the funeral. Approximately 18 months later, my wife and mother-in-law were attending his funeral in San Diego.
When I read of his experiences in Okinawa, I am in awe of what he endured. He was as unassuming, modest, and humble as anyone I’ve ever met.
Right around there yeah.
I first became an Angels fan (keeping up with scores, going to games, buying merchandise, collecting cards) in the late 80’s. From what I’m told I could pronounce Wally Joyner and Jonny Ray’s name before I could my own.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Yeah, momma halowood and papa halowood were Yankee fans
So was eldest brother halowood. It made things interesting at the halowood dinner table. Don Mattingly vs Wally Joyner type of stuff.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
NOTHING rolls off the tongue quite like Wally Joyner.
NOT MY QUINNY!!!!
by halofan4life on Aug 27, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends on if you want ability or value
Erstad, White, Pettis, Lynn, Edmonds, and probably Hunter all had more defensive value than Bourjos, because they played out there multiple seasons instead of just under a month.
But if you look at the kinds of catches Peter has made, his best highlight plays are right up there with the best plays anyone had made for this team.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 25, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm more or less just speaking in terms of talent to my eye.....
Edmonds had a gift for making amazing catches (many more than just the over the head leaping catch) and had a good arm. But I’m willing to bet Bourjos probably gets to those balls without having to dive.
The only CF that I can remember CLEARLY as having all the talent (range, glove, arm, routes) that Bourjos has right now is Hunter when he was younger and maybe Bernie Williams in the mid 90’s.
Ertad’s definitely up there and is no doubt the superior athlete, the same goes for White. But, I’m not old enough to remember Pettis or Lynn.
Maybe if Ichiro was a CF he’d be better, but I don’t know.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Pettis
White was pretty amazing. Too bad some of his best highlights came after the Angels traded him. But I think Pettis had the most range of them all.
The best catch ever in team history was probably the one Fred Lynn made on 9-21-1982. I wish I could find a photo of it online. If nothing else, I know the Louisville Courier Journal had one the day after. Back then we didn’t have no steenkin internet. And newspapers published before the west coast games finished. An Angel game played on monday night, I didn’t find out what happened until Wednesday morning.
Walked back and home from school those days too, uphill both ways. In 6 feet of snow but yet burned by the Kentucky sun. We had it rough back then, but that’s the way it was and we liked it. We loved it.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Aug 26, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
T'was the best of times, and the worst of times
Seriously, from what I gather from those who are 50+ is that the 70’s and early 80’s were a less complicated time. Doesn’t necessarily make it better or worse or even less stressful, just easier.
Me being a product of the later 80’s, I’m just assuming the whole world went to shit when I was born, call it bad timing.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Too young for the reference, sorry.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Devo had a big uppercut swing though.
He had warning track power for a lot of his years with us. After one season of 24 HR, he spent a lot of time trying to recapture that power stroke. Aybar is sort of that way now, although I think Devo was taller. He’s got that Napoleon complex, or little dog complex. He thinks he has more power than he really does. I’ll go out on a limb here and say that Bourjos won’t do that. He’s got a more compact swing, with fast hands through the zone. He just needs to adjust to MLB off-speed pitches, and he’ll hit well.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Aug 24, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Devo hit 208 homers; Aybar might hit a quarter of that
Keep in mind that Devo’s rookie year just so happened to be the biggest year for home runs in the American League between 1901 and 1995. It’s not that he lost his power stroke, it’s that his power stroke delivered numbers that were consistently in line with the league’s:
AB per HR
YR AL DW
87: 33.2 26.6
88: 45.3 41.4
89: 50.2 53.0
90: 48.1 40.3
A lot of good young players (Devo, Wally Joyner, Jack Howell) got bad raps about “losing their power strokes” back then because people didn’t recognize that the offensive context was changing pretty dramatically year to year. The Angels in particular over their history have made a lot of bad decisions as a result.
I worry about those dramatic diving catches Bourjos makes and the sliding into base
when he steals so much. It is only a matter of time before this kid hurts himself playing that hard in every game. It sure is fun to watch though.
I hate the Texas Rangers
For a guy that's had only 10 or so games at Anaheim,
…I’ve been impressed with how well he already knows the field and distances to the wall. He seems to learn quickly.
The fly he caught at the wall in the 6th is a good example. He appeared to look back at the wall when he first broke on the ball…maybe 30-35 away. He never looked back again, yet caught the ball, bounced off the wall,and then landed catlike on his feet…right in stride. He made it look way too easy.
He plays the game the way it should be played....
He’s in the major leagues. Forget about taking it easy for the good of his career, if he doesn’t go 100% all the time and is willing to sacrifice his body, then there are hundreds of kids in the minors who will. Even if it takes a toll on his body, it’s better to be great for 7 years than to be average for 10.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
by Halowood on Aug 24, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Erstad vs. Garret
Erstad played hard and put his body on the line. Garret took the cautious approach. Darin played 1654 games, Garret played 2228 (assuming he’s done). So does it pay to be cautious or not?
Obviously, it would take more than just looking at those two players, but it seems like maybe GA’s no-dives-no-crashes policy bought him about 600 more games.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Aug 24, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd still rather have Erstad
over GA. Even if it would be 600 less games.
Big Bats, We Don't Need No Stinkin Big Bats!
by angelskid2210 on Aug 24, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have GA ...
as opposed to a ubiquitous “15-day DL” status hanging over Erstad’s player page.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Aug 24, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
GA was able to get away with the no diving approach his first few years in the league.
But by the time 2004 rolled around, he was completely and utterly useless in the field. 3 years after that he became useless at the plate. Erstad had two way value up until 2007.
Here’s a good comparison. Would you rather have Torii Hunter never rob anyone of XBH but play through 2015, or have Torii Hunter win 9 consecutive GG’s and rightfully hang them up in 2012? I’d rather have the 9 consecutive GG’s.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Two way value?
Erstad was very good from ‘97-’99, he put up a phenomenal 2000 and then pretty much sucked with the bat every year after that. His defense in center (when he was out there) made up for it, but GA was consistently the better hitter after Ersty’s huge 2000.
Garret Anderson was one of the best long-term players the Angels ever developed
And 2004 was like his 9th or 10th year in the league. That’s quite a few years of “getting away with it”. Anderson was a smart, quiet player.
Erstad was a good player too, don’t get me wrong, but Anderson’s career and club records speak for themselves.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Aug 25, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Bourjous has his first ML hitting streak! Sign him up for the HOF baby!
Big Bats, We Don't Need No Stinkin Big Bats!
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