Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

25 for 25: Angels

I'm actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the majors, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (for AL teams, 2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 5 total outfielders, one designated hitter, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers). I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions or years. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basic minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons). I primarily utilized WAR from Baseball-Reference (Fangraphs numbers only go back to 2002), WARP1 from Baseball Prospectus, Win Shares, and OPS+/ERA+ to determine season value.

The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang, there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team. I actually posted a fully researched extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934. The NL versions for this era are there as well (linky, linky, linky, linky).

You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.

Star-divide

C – Bob Boone (1988), Lance Parrish (1990)

1B – Wally Joyner (1987), Mark Teixiera (2008)

2B – Randy Velarde (1999), Adam Kennedy (2003)

3B – Troy Glaus (2001), Chone Figgins (2009)

SS – David Eckstein (2002), Orlando Cabrera (2007)

OF – Gary Pettis (1986), Tim Salmon (1995), Jim Edmonds (1997), Darin Erstad (2000), Vladimir Guerrero (2004)

DH – Chili Davis (1994)

SP – Bert Blyleven (1989), Jim Abbott (1991), Mark Langston (1993), Chuck Finley (1998), John Lackey (2005)

RP – Donnie Moore (1985), Joe Grahe (1992), Troy Percival (1996), Francisco Rodriguez (2006)

Notable exceptions: Dick Schofield (1986), Devon White (1987), Torii Hunter (2009), Mike Witt (1986), Kirk McCaskill (1989), Kelvim Escobar (2007), Ervin Santana (2008), Joe Saunders (2008), Brian Harvey (1991)

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

Comment 38 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Teixeira only played 54 games as an Angel

uhhhh…. just sayin’ not sure if one of your 10,000 qulaifying rules counts here…

by Rev Halofan on Aug 26, 2010 3:30 PM PDT reply actions  

You're right

But I made an exception for him because he was a 3-win player, despite only playing a third of a season with you guys. His 2008 was more valuable than any other first baseman season that you’ve had , other than Wally Joyner. Kendry Morales was very good as well, but I needed 2009 for Figgins and 3B.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

The minimums

They were there mostly just to trim out the great majority of the dross. This whole process takes about 8-10 hours per franchise and it would have taken too long to sift through all the data.

If a partial year was genuinely good enough to shine through, I didn’t have a problem including into the mix. This also holds true for worthy 45-50 IP relief seasons.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

2nd best keystone season by WARP1

Only Kennedy (twice) beats him in terms of WAR. You guys don’t have a lot to offer at 2B – Grich is solid, but less than Adam and Randy; then you drop down to Luis Alicea ’97, Johnny Ray ’89, and Howie Kendrick ’09.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

25 years

His season is too far back to be considered for this. I was trying to find a place for him on this squad, but once Chili locked up the DH spot, his outfield seasons since 1985 aren’t good enough to compete with the hest of the era.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh 25 years, right...

That makes sense I suppose.

BOURJOS BOURJOS BOURJOS BOURJOS

by ryanfea on Aug 26, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Colon got hit from both sides

He doesn’t really stand up well against the top pitchers earlier in the era (Blyleven, Abbott, Langston, Finley). And he doesn’t have the continued excellence with the club that Lackey did (John had 5 qualifying seasons, compared to 1 for Bartolo, and had three years as good or better than Colon.) If you feel that Colon would be a better choice for the team, it’s easy enough to do a straight switch with Lackey.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I tried to find places for guys with continued success with the club

Colon’s ‘05 campaign wasn’t much different than Lackey’s ’05, so the tie-breaker went to Lackey based on his long distinguished service to the team.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 27, 2010 3:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

1990 was his best year

But Chuck had a lot of good years, so it worked out well enough when his 5 best seasons got claimed by other players, based on need.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

there i was making a steve finley joke (made fun of constantly on HH)

by Halos in DE on Aug 26, 2010 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

SWAP

AYBAR 2009 FOR SS INSTEAD OF OC AND CHANGE FIGGINS TO 2007

stay humble in a ferari

by MYSPASCOBAR on Aug 26, 2010 4:31 PM PDT reply actions  

I take Morales 2009 at First Base, Aybar 2009 at SS, Sprinkle in more Vlad Guerrero....

And find a way to include Don Baylor somewhere in this. Not bad for someone who isn’t a fan of the team. It can be difficult to get a reading on an organization if you don’t have your finger on the pulse. Really, well done mate.

"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor

by Halowood on Aug 26, 2010 5:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Baylor played from 1977-1982

So he wouldn’t be part of this exercise. As for Morales and Aybar, there is only player from each year (plus at least one player from each year), so I’m not sure if you’re just adding them or replacing Figgins in some way. And you can’t exactly have more Vlad (unless you want him to put on weight); any player can only be chosen once, otherwise, all 6 Giants outfielders would be Barry Bonds – and who wants that?

This has been fun to do and tough to accomplish. It’s great to refresh my memory of the players from my old baseball card collections and get a better understanding of who they were. But it’s hard not to have the history of the teams ingrained into me and know who had the greatest impact. (It’s also freeing not to know because I can be objective and not be swayed by popularity and such.)

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would

take 2007 Figgins, get rid of Cabrera. Use Aybar from 2009.

by tizzidy19 on Aug 26, 2010 5:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Swapping out Cabrera for Aybar makes sense - kind of

You actually get a slight improvement going from Cabrera (2.6 WARP1 / 3.8 WAR) to Aybar (2.5 / 4.3). But you take a big hit going from ‘09 Figgins (6.3 / 6.9) to ’07 Chone (1.9 / 2.8). I don’t think that hit is worth the edge you get from making the move at shortstop.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

A better swap, maybe

If you wanted to, move Figgins from ‘09 to ’05, improve Lackey from ’05 to ’07 (your 2nd best WARP1 season at SP), and go with Aybar in 2009 instead of Cabrera. The simple Cabrera for Aybar / switch Figgins option doesn’t stack up.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 26, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Best Swap

Switch Mathis ’10 with Bob Boone ’88

by angelsownredsux on Aug 26, 2010 10:39 PM PDT reply actions  

I think
Q and Kazmir ’10 needs to be in there

by phoenix15 on Aug 26, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

At first glance, without understanding your procedure,

I was somewhat surprised not seeing Garret Anderson’s name in the outfield. Later comments explain it.

by wumbug on Aug 27, 2010 5:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Garret kind of just gets left off

His best years get claimed by other players (‘03 Kennedy, ’02 Eckstein) and by the time I have room for him, he’s not worth it.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 27, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

This had to have been like some crazy mindf**k of a puzzle.

My head is spinning just reading this. And to have done it for all 30 teams? That would have taken me 25 years to figure out.
Good work!

by cath619 on Aug 27, 2010 6:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Does anyone still have a Datsun?

Nissan discontinued the brand in 1986.

Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch

by red floyd on Aug 27, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

the last year of datsun was actually '84

I have an 84 4×4 pickup, it is the last year to say both Nissan and Datsun on the back. It’s a great truck, great mileage, and I have taken it places that built Jeeps and FJ/Land Cruisers don’t dare go. I love it… I’ll never sell it, no matter what Mom says!!!

by TheHeathen on Aug 27, 2010 9:45 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Each team takes about 8-10 hours

Especially when you simplify the stats to WAR/WARP1. Trying to dig through this using traditional counting stats would be madness and while I qualify for that, I just don’t want to waste too much time on this. I’m blowing off enough work at my job as it is doing this; I’d never get anything accomplished.

You should take a look at the extended version I did for the 1910-1934 Cardinals. That one has full backgrounds, pulled off a dozen websites and a couple books, pictures that I was able to find for those old guys, and the write-up with links galore. That was somewhere around 50 hours by itself; it was a bit of a slog – these simple rosters kind of just drive themselves. Once I start doing one, I want to to get it done so I can look back at the team.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 27, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about DiSarcina?

W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.

by RexTookMyStash on Aug 27, 2010 9:11 AM PDT reply actions  

DiSarcina actually had the best offensive season of the SS's

But the total package probably put him somewhere in 5th place among the shortstops (Eckstein, Schofield, Aybar, Cabrera, DiSarcina). I always found his name interesting for some reason, though.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 27, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

what does this list tell us?

That GA played with shittier position players?

I’m not seeing the value of this excruciating exercise.

by yeswecan on Aug 30, 2010 9:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Halos Heaven is the Number #1 Angels Fan Blog according to QUANTCAST. Our Angels Fan Site is YOUR Angels Fan Community!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

California_angels_1979_small
Angel fans in Peru
Small
LEGIT Nationals Trade Proposal
Ga_pissed_small
UP AND IN Podcast on Halos Farm
Keepcalm3_small
Trades that make sense? Trout for Harper
Small
Wale – Albert Pujols Ft. Rick Ross & Fabolous
Small
What about John Lannan?
Jeredremembersnick_small
What Angels merch do you all own?
Prof_small
Pujols is Reporting a Week Early
7700243_chargers01mzp_400_small
MLB Fan Cave Candidate
Rangersfail_small
What do you look like

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Leaders of the Free World

4323_1105939621665_1622022962_290465_5300842_n_small Rev Halofan

Mostinterstingman_small cupie

Tn96_small WiHaloFan

Whammy10_small blast21dave

Fearless Crew

N1222371_8709_small scottnak

Halos2_small Stirrups

Anarangels_small Mayheminthehood

Cant-tell-if-trolling-or-just-very-stupid_small linkbruin

Avatar_small rghan

Alternate-club-logo-no-highlight1_small RexTookMyStash