Jeff Mathis is hero in 16, Carl Crawford a halo in '11. Halolinks
by WiHaloFan on Sep 9, 2010 8:29 AM PDT
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PrintSweet 16: Long day ends with victory for Angels - The Orange County Register
The Angels were outhit 14-6, blew a lead in the ninth inning and a bases-loaded scoring opportunity in the 11th and had another taken away when Indians centerfielder Michael Brantley robbed Juan Rivera of a home run with a leaping catch at the wall in the 10th inning. "On the offensive side, it was like root canal," Angels manager Mike Scioscia said. "We're grinding it out. Some things are a little painful right now. We just couldn't execute some little things that might have ended it a lot sooner."
Okay, the Angels won, but come on...6 hits in 16 innings? The "hitters" went a combined 6 for 49 at the plate resulting in a sub-Mathis-like .122 batting average. I suppose I shouldn't rag on Mathis, he did manage to hit a long flyball to score Torii Hunter to win the game, but why does it not feel satisfying? Especially when you consider the Halo's 2011 closer went 6 decent innings to lower his ERA below the 6-run mark. Kazmir allowed just 2 hits (and 3 walks) while striking out 6. Yet I'm left with the feeling that my favorite team just won a silver medal in the Special Olympics. Here's some 'lights: Bourjos blasts a solo home run to center - Peter Bourjos blasts his third home run of his career, a solo shot over the center-field wall to put his Angels up 3-1 in the sixth, Marson nails the winning run at the plate - Lou Marson chases down a wild pitch and fires to Joe Smith covering the plate in time to nail the potential go-ahead (winning) run, Torii races home with a walk-off run in 16th - Torii Hunter races home with the walk-off winning run in the 16th inning on a sacrifice fly by Jeff Mathis, Kazmir strikes out six over six innings - Scott Kazmir strikes out six over six innings of work.
Crawford enjoying the ride while it lasts - FOX Sports on MSN
1. Will Crawford lead the underdog Rays past the Yankees and bring a World Series title to Tampa Bay? 2. Which team will win the high-stakes bidding for Crawford’s services on the free-agent market? The second question is speculative and premature, which makes it awfully fun to bat around. On Monday, I asked David Ortiz for his take. (Sorry. Couldn’t resist.) "The Yankees," Big Papi replied. "That’s the team that’s going to pay him. Either the Yankees or Anaheim." Big Papi either has some solid sources or subscribes to the same conventional wisdom as many non-uniform-wearers in the industry. Because that’s not the first time I have heard those clubs mentioned.
Sorry, but put me on the "Not Convinced Crawford is the Answer" bus. He's a great player, but I'm worried he's going to cost too much to sign for too many years. The Angels seem to have the right players in the pipeline, just not soon enough. Overspending on Crawford when a more affordable option is a couple years away doesn't seem like the wise off-season move I'd like to see the Angels make. Tell me your thoughts in today's poll and in the comment section.
Scot Shields' Angels career is winding down, but he hopes to pitch again this season - Los Angeles Times
"It’s all to be determined," Shields said, when asked about a possible return to the Angels. "I understand the business side of it. You look at our bullpen now, and there are a lot of young guys who can really throw the ball. The future is definitely bright here." That future probably won’t include Shields, who may have thrown his last pitch as an Angel on Tuesday night, when he left the game against the Indians because of elbow tightness. Shields, never one to acknowledge the severity of any injury, is confident he will pitch again this season.
The only way Shields makes next year's club is by accepting an invite to spring training and proving he still has something left in the tank. At least, that's what I think.
Educate Me on Bobby Abreu - FanGraphs Baseball
The only explanations I have are either that he’s just unlucky – which everyone hates as a reasoning but … — or that he’s hitting the ball differently, which is translating into easily fielded balls. That seems immeasurable (since what is an easily fielded ball objectively?), but that is all I can come up with.
FanGraphs is still trying to figure out Bobby Abreu.
Here are some entertaining videos from last night's MLB games:
Bourn catches popup, waves goodbye to fans - Video - MLB.com
Michael Bourn catches Alfonso Soriano's fly ball to center for the last out of the game and waves goodbye to Wrigley Field fans.
Not sure what that was all about, but Bourn looked like he was ready to leave Chicago.
Fan snags a ball while holding hamburger - Video - MLB.com
A fan catches a ball headed to the stands while holding a hamburger in the other hand.
This kid is the king of cool, for a short time at least.
Oakland fan lays out for a home run - Video - MLB.com
A fan at the Mariners-Athletics game dives in the stands for a home run ball, but no one's around him
This is one of the funniest clips I've ever seen. Seriously. The way the guy takes flight trying to catch the ball, and his not so gentle landing are hilarious.
Angels " Win Probability " Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - FanGraphs Baseball
Posts Thirty-Two Fast Pitchers - Joe Posnanski
OK, having riffed on the topic of fast pitchers, now it’s time for my list of the 32 fastest pitchers in baseball history.
Good list, and as always with any Posnanski post, well written.
Rosenthal: Next labor deal must Improve balance - FOX Sports on MSN
It’s funny: For all the complaints about revenue sharing’s failings, the program’s successes — the Brewers, Twins, Rays and others — are undeniable. Even the Pirates, last in the majors in payroll, are an example of how revenue-sharing recipients can rebuild. Fans do not yet see it on the field, where the Pirates recently clinched their 18th straight losing season. But the team has spent a major-league leading $31 million on the draft in the past three years. Whether the Pirates are choosing the right players remains to be seen. But it’s indisputable that they are trying to improve.
A short history of the Ventura County Gulls - The Hardball Times
Old baseball guys Ken McMullen and Jim Colborn had a great idea in 1986: Bring minor league baseball to Ventura County. The area just north of Los Angeles would be a natural fit. Many major leaguers had come out of the area, and many would also in the future. There were two successful major league franchises in the Los Angeles area, plus the San Bernardino/Riverside County area to the east had a good history with minor league baseball. The love of baseball and the coastal climate of Ventura would be a perfect match.
Good historical story about a local minor league team...well, for one year.
Why the Padres dream season has been a nightmare of late - Lee Jenkins - SI.com
From April to August, baseball theorists busied themselves trying to figure out how the Padres were winning so much, despite a $38 million payroll and an offense that ranks 21st in the major leagues in runs, 25th in batting average and 25th in slugging percentage. Now they are trying to figure out how such a powerhouse could be losing. Here are five reasons:
Padres 4, Dodgers 0 - FOX Sports on MSN
Cory Luebke struck out seven in six sparkling innings and San Diego added to its lead in the NL West with a 4-0 win over the Los Angeles Dodgers on Wednesday night.San Diego has won three consecutive games since losing 10 in a row and is two ahead of San Francisco after the Giants lost 3-1 at Arizona. The Padres will host the Giants in an important four-game series beginning Thursday.
The San Diego Halos swept the Dodger and seem to be back on track.
Seattle's elimination number is two:
| American League West | |||||||||||
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB | |||||||
| Texas | 76 | 63 | .547 | - | |||||||
| Oakland | 69 | 70 | .496 | 7 | |||||||
| L.A. Angels | 67 | 73 | .479 | 9½ | |||||||
| Seattle | 55 | 85 | .393 | 21½ | |||||||
September 9 - BR Bullpen
Events, births and deaths that occurred on September 9.
1965 - The Angels waive Lou Clinton and both the Indians and the Athletics claim him. Since the rule on waivers is that the team lowest in the standings gets first dibs, Clinton joins the Athletics. He arrives in mid-game and appears as a pinch-hitter, striking out, as California beats the A's, 7 - 2. He and the Athletics then learn after the game that Clinton has been awarded to the Indians because the Athletics' claim was filed after the 24-hour claiming period had expired. Charlie Finley knew this before Clinton reported to the Athletics, but manager Haywood Sullivan, fed up with Finley's second-guessing, didn't answer the telephone during the game, and therefore didn't find out.
1970 - California's Alex Johnson becomes the 3rd player in history to put one into the CF bleachers at Comiskey Park when he connects in the 6th against Chicago's Billy Wynne in a 2 - 1 loss in eight innings.
1977 - In the second game of a doubleheader loss in Boston, Tiger rookies Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell debut together. They will hold down the 2B and SS jobs in Detroit for a record 19 years. I always liked these guys.
1983 - White Sox Britt Burns pitches a one-hit 11 - 0 win over the Angels. California's sole hit is Mike Brown's single with two out in the 7th.
1989 - California's Devon White steals four bases including second base, third base, and home in the same inning in the Angels' 8 - 5 win over Boston.
1992 - Brewer owner Bud Selig is selected by the owners to serve as acting baseball commissioner until a permanent successor can be found. It will take nearly six years to name a permanent commissioner and it will be Selig himself.
1993 - The major leagues vote to divide each league into three divisions, and add another round of playoffs featuring two wild card teams.
R.I.P.:
1999 - Catfish Hunter, pitcher; All-Star, Hall of Famer (b. 1946)
Six hits? Seriously? Geez:
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Don't think we'll land Crawford
I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that:
1. We trade Napoli
and
2. We get Beltre (because we just love our aging sluggers…especially the ones that hit in little league parks and get inflated numbers).
contract year, mashing...
I’d bet on a down year in 2011, or at least back to reality. I feel a lot of beltre is smoke and mirrors. Which is why the angels wiill give him 5/18.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Contract year
He should have been playing for one in 2009 as well, and had one of his worse seasons. A better explanation is if he’s healthy, he’s good. Don’t expect 2004 or 2010 obviously.
But Beltre should play slightly better than his normal level of 2005-2008, because any park will be better for him than Seattle. I’d expect .275, 27 HR, 90 RBI. Throw in gold glove d at third and that’s a player who can help us.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
^^^This^^^
Beltre’s average season would be an immense upgrade over what the Angels have gotten at 3B this year, and there’s nobody in the upper minors who could be expected to fill the position in the next two years. Beltre’s young enough that he could still be expected to provide good value for at least 3 of the 5 years. The question is whether anyone offers him a longer deal.
All in all, I think I’d much rather see the Angels sign Beltre than Crawford, for example. As good as Crawford is, the Angels have young outfielders in the system (Bourjos, eventually Trout, possibly Trumbo and Pettit) who might be ready before a Crawford contract would expire. I see no third basemen, likely due at least in part to the team’s expectation that the position would be occupied by Brandon Wood.
They're just inflated
He’s a solid player but don’t expect him to touch .300 again. He’s also on the wrong side of 30, so expect his power numbers to start to decline. Add in Boras as his agent and the Sox trying to keep him around, I don’t see why the Halos even should consider kicking the tires.
Because the Angels need a 3Bman, not a leftfielder.
Who cares if they overpay? We have no solution at third for years to come, whereas we have an endless queue of leftfielders lined up for the next five years.
3-4 yrs of Beltre at 10-12M per is a far safer bet than six years of Crawford at $16-18M per.
by Turks Teeth on Sep 9, 2010 9:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
assuming Beltre's numbers are inflated
due to it being a contract year, and his numbers fall more to his normal levels over the next few seasons, I don’t see him being THAT much of an upgrade over Callaspo. he’s a definite upgrade on both sides of the ball, don’t get me wrong, but is he really worth how much more he’ll command compared to what Callaspo can give them over a full season? not to mention the difference in age between the 2.
I dunno, you’ll probably throw a bunch of numbers at me to disprove everything I just said, but that is my non-sabermetric point of view.
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Upgrade Needed
The Angels need to upgrade in any way they can. This year’s offense is not good enough. Getting Morales back will obviously make a difference, but from where else is the improvement going to come? Absent a major trade of some sort, the free agents who can most likely help the team are Beltre & Crawford, and 3B is a bigger need than OF.
That much I agree with
But what if that 10-12 million is more like 14-15 million? If he holds up his value on the offensive side into his 30’s (as Torii has) then I’m all for it. But how the hell can we bet on that happening?
Point taken, however. They do NOT have a third baseman on the horizon, nor will there be any available any time soon outside Beltre. I’d just hate to see yet another declining slugger absorb so much payroll.
I heard McAnulty is inflated
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Sep 9, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
That's what she said.
And she’s usually a pretty reliable source.
"If it weren't for the gutter, my mind would be homeless."
--Woody Paige's Blackboard
"I came back with an I-Don't-Care attitude. If I had an open shot, I was taking it."
--The Robert Horry
I pledge allegiance to the Oakland Raiders, New York Giants, Los Angeles Lakers, Anaheim Angels... and Quentin Tarantino.
by The_Power_and_the_Glory_of_Robert_Horry on Sep 9, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
They are inflated by PED's.
All the experts have said and continue to say, they will always be one step behind the enhancers with regards to testing. Is it not obvious Beltre’s ONE great season with the Dodgers is very much akin to others who are proven juicers? After suffering an ego crushing 2009, and subsequent lack of serious contract offers, perhaps Adrian decided that some enhancement was in order. With millions at his disposal, lack of access is not a problem. With millions to be made, the enhancement group will continue to dream of new creations, better and less detectable. 2010 may merely be a product of enhancement.
If others claim that it is because he is now healthy, I say, wow , so he was unhealthy for the duration of his last multi-year contract? Wow. Not very inspiring either.
For these 2 reasons it is unwise to invest in the Beltre corp. To feel the need to overpay in order to succeed is coming from weakness, not strength. This is not usually a winning strategy.
by Wally's World on Sep 10, 2010 3:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Show me where Beltre's stats have been inflated by Fenway.
Or how spacious Safeco is a little league park? It is the most extreme pitcher’s park in the Majors according to park factor at the moment.
Beltre has hit better on the road with both Seattle and Boston.
by Turks Teeth on Sep 9, 2010 9:04 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Baseless claims are the cornerstone of internet blather.
You usually make way too much sense for us. : )
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Sep 9, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Beltre = Boras
Not impossible, but any negotiations with Boras figure to begin with a lot of pent-up bad feelings.
On the other hand, I guess the front office needs to start to heal, since it has to deal with Boras regarding Weaver and Morales.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Sep 9, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
A better solution is
convert Morales to 3B and leave Napoli at 1B.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Sep 9, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
That is not far-fetched.
Morales has played 3B and OF as well as 1B. But it didn’t look like he could field any of them until last year. I thought he would be our full time DH for years to come.
What a sorry state the development of our players has become.
I don’t think Iron Mike likes Napoli at any position. Trumbo might be a more likely option.
I am kind of hoping that the Angels free our best hitter.
Here we go again
Can we please stop with the suggestions of moving Morales to any other position but first? Once upon a time he may have been able to go to left field and not be horrible but that time has passed. Playing third in Cuba does not mean he ever had what it takes to play it in the majors.
The team put in a ton of work with him to get him to be a pretty decent first baseman. Let’s be happy he’s that and focus on filling other positions with guys who are actually supposed to play them.
it is bad
when the pitchers boxscore looks better then the hitters?
"You dont need long hair to rip off your sleeves and be a badass" - J. Allen
Been there. Done that.
So is TReck30 and Donn Roach…
by maze88 on Sep 9, 2010 9:52 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I just watched a replay of the walk-off
I know it’s rad to win but with they way they played they probably shouldn’t have been slapping each other in the backs like they just dropped their magic number down to 2.
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
was anyone else hoping
that Mathis would pull a Kendry in that victory celebration?
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess
but I was talking about the guys jumping all over him out near 2nd base.
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 10, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I am a fan of Crawford but its not the right fit.
I think Crawford is an excellent player and is the type of player the Angels usually covet. But with that being said I think it would be too many years and too much money. Especially for an outfielder with good BA, a lot of steels but limited power with a lot of strikeouts.
I like Beltre. I think he would be better than our other 3b options even with an expected drop in BA. But a 4 to 5 year deal I don’t think so. If for some (unlikely) reason the free agent market plays out and we get Beltre for a 2 year deal I am all for it.
I don’t think Beltre or Crawford should be the second highest player on our team. And that is what i think it would take to get them here.
If we are going to give out a big contract, I think it should be to lock up Weaver. I know harder said than done especially with Boras as his agent. But he may actually want to be an Angel for the rest of his career.
Speaking of outfielders in the pipeline
In the Quakes first playoff game Trout went 3 for 6 with his first inside the park homerun. In the last 10 games Trout is batting .378 with a .457 OBP.
Wow.
W6G -- Unless there's a good trade on the table.
by RexTookMyStash on Sep 9, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm starting to love Mike Trout.
But after B. Wood burned me bad, I’m afraid to plunge in on this one.
NOT MY QUINNY!!!!
by halofan4life on Sep 9, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Crawford...
I’m torn on the guy. Yeah, it would be nice to have someone who could steal 50+ a year and hit for some power to go along with Torii, Abreu and Bourjos (who could probably account for another 60+ combined), but what’s he going to be like when he nears Torii’s age? We’ve gotten lucky with Hunter so far, and I don’t see any reason why he won’t put up another season of .290 BA with 20+ HR, but can we take that gamble again at $15+ mil a year?
I guess in the end if we get Crawford and he’s an integral part of a WS championship or two over the course of five years, then he’s worth it even if he declines badly at the end of the deal. If he declines badly and there are no WS titles over the course of his stay here, then I don’t think it will be a good deal in the end.
Does Carl Crawford make the Angels World Series Champions when combined with the rest of the roster over the next few years? For the amount of money everyone seems to think it will take to sign him, that’s the question that should be asked.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
Crawford
Is the type of player the Angels FO likes:
-Fast
-Low OBP
-Expensive
-An outfielder
-Most likely wont live up to his contract
-Has average to slightly above average power
-Expensive
Its a perfect fit.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Holy shit that video made me ROFL so hard at work my boss asked what was wrong with me.
That guy TAKES OFF and doesnt even get the ball.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Everyone seriously check out the A's fan link
and check out how he leaves once he gets the ball. Oh man, best link of the year.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
He probably left to cry.
Did you notice how flipped up his legs were? Couldn’t have felt good, but I’ll watch anything that gives me a reason to laugh at an A’s fan.
NOT MY QUINNY!!!!
by halofan4life on Sep 9, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Crawford
Haven’t we spent enough money on outfielders in their 30s or pushing 30 and throwing draft picks away in the process? The farm system is in bad enough shape as it is and we’re looking at losing Weaver and Kendry to the typical Boras FA process as well. Blow up the has-beens and start rebuilding. At least then the losing will have a purpose.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
As of right now.
If the season ended today we could sign a type A free agent and not lose our 1st round pick. We have the 13th worst record and pick 13 is protected. We would just lose our sandwich pick in the supplemental round.
NOT MY QUINNY!!!!
by halofan4life on Sep 9, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
You don't lose compensation picks
There are no compensation picks at all until somebody loses a Type A or Type B to another team. In either case, the team that lost the free agent is awarded a compensation pick created just for them.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Sep 9, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
13th pick?
damn I thought they were doing better than that (from a draft standpoint). if they are going to lose and look awful doing it, then there should be a better payout than the 13th pick. step it up boys (or step it down, whatever)!!
and why do I get the feeling that they’ll turn it on in the next few weeks meaning they’ll end up with the 16th pick?
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Well because of teams not signing picks from this past year, the 16th pick is still protected actually.
The 19th pick is the first unprotected one, but ya I know what you mean. Kind of like how the Mariners were in line to get Strasburg, but then won the last totally meaningless series while the Nationals lost.
good to know
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
i say no on Crawford
He will demand too many years. I’d like to see Beltre signed but for no more than 3 seasons. I think the league collectively has learned they’re lesson with how much of a gamble these long term deals can be (thanks to the Angels with Garbage Jr.).
With that said, I can’t wait for 2012. I throw up in my mouth every time I’m reminded of Garbage Jr and his historically bad contract.
by AlohaHalofan on Sep 9, 2010 10:15 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Mathis is NOT the hero....
The hero is the guy on 3rd. Mathis did what he always does and that is get out. The only reason there this was good was because Torii was on 3rd base with only 1 out. I’m just not going to give Mathis all these props for getting out. Ok, so he did what he was supposed to do in that situation – yes a key situation but he still got out. Now if he had hit a ground ball up the middle and through the gap – ok, he’s the hero but to me NOT when he gets another out.
would you fell different if it was
Torii who hit the sac fly and Mathis was on 3rd? I know I would. I will deny Mathis credit every chance I get.
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
*feel*
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
No, you were right the first time.
I would have fallen much differently in that case.
"You gotta have nuts." / "Coming Around 3rd, especially if I'm ticked off, that's going to happen." - Torii Hunter
by Commander_Nate on Sep 9, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I feel the same way
He should get partial credit for not popping up, grounding to the pitcher or striking out but ultimately the guy who was clutch in that situation was Torii. Sadly I was hoping Mathis would NOT come through in that situation, as my biased little mind felt like a clutch single might buy him another season under Big Daddy Mike.
Stupid, I know. It’s just been that kind of season.
You are making too many assumptions
Like Jeff Mathis ever being able to get to 3rd base.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Sep 9, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
true
he’d have to be hitting against the Angels defense in order for that to happen.
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
errors happen.
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Sep 9, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Give it some time.
With a couple more decades of watching baseball, you’ll gain the ability to know a premium fly out when you see one. It’s all in the graceful ark of the fly out….
Sometimes I wish Rex would be quiet
by gitchogritchoffmypetis on Sep 9, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you have that one backwards
The Yanks are going to fall over themselves to sign Lee. I’d love him in Anaheim but there’s no chance.
I like Lee, but I hate that back problem
With our luck he’d sneeze wrong the day he arrives in Mesa for ST and finish it off for good.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Sep 9, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
By the way...
…our guys will hit next year. This is just an off year. Even the Yankees have one of those occasionally. Angel fans, chin up!
Xavier Calvera
Crazy Idea! but
I keep hearing that the mets are gonna start rebuilding next year because they know that they can’t build a team around wright and reyes, so in my opinion David Wright would be way better the Beltre. He has power and great numbers, the last two years he has averaged about 140 strikeouts but his BA is still in the low .3 – high .2’s and is still very young. We should definitely look into trading for him and see what the mets want for him
by (!ts_a_C.A._thing) on Sep 9, 2010 11:49 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Mets would want more than we have (or want) to give
would be my guess. He’s one of the faces of their franchise; if he blows up once he’s out of that offensive sinkhole called Citi Field, Omar Minaya is going to get absolutely slaughtered by the NY press (not that he hasn’t ALREADY…). Besides, he’s young, has some speed and should eventually get his power back at a premium position. Unless he starts getting brittle like Reyes has, they have no reason to deal him.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Sep 9, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think we could get David Wright
Without trading Mike Trout. But yeah, if we could get him for a Dan Haren type package, by all means go for it. I’m very skeptical that the Mets would give him up in a deal that makes sense for us.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
by RallyMonkey5 on Sep 9, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
i think it would be tough to get him too.
Your right he is a face of the francise along reyes but what the hell is the francise worth right now? Shit.. they have one star and a shitty team going nowhere so what do teams do with players like that? The same thing the diamondbacks did with Haren, deal them to try and address multiple areas that need help.. it would seem hard to get him but if we threw a sort of package together that would fit the mets it doesn’t seem that far off to get him without having to deal trout. Napoli plus another player like kendrick and a prospect could be very appealing to them.
by (!ts_a_C.A._thing) on Sep 9, 2010 2:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Why Crawford is BETTER than Beltre
Crawford looks like he will cost an average 17 million a year for 5 years. That’s a Torii Hunter contract and you don’t hand those out unless you’re sure what you’re getting. Crawford gives us the speed we need, adds to the pop we desperately need, plays LF, which is what we need, and bats leadoff, another one of our needs.
Beltre, will cost between 12-15 million dollars, not much less than Crawford. However, the Angels don’t need a 3B, they already have Alberto Callaspo. In Callaspo’s first two full season of professional baseball, it looks like he will average .290 35 DB 10 HR and a .330ish OBP and Callaspo costs under a million dollars. Meanwhile Beltre’s career averages indicate he’s a .275 BA 35 DB 25 HR .330 OBP player.
NOW TELL ME, WHY WOULD WE PAY 11-14 MILLION MORE FOR 15 HR’s A YEAR?
It’s just stupid. The argument for Adrian Beltre is stupid. Not only would we have to move Callaspo to 2B, but we’d also lose Howie Kendrick. So essentially the cost of Adrian Beltre would be 11-14 million + Howie Kendrick. Well there a gigantic “no effing thank you”. If we trade away Howie we’d be just as good throwing Frandsen or Amarista out there at 2B, they’d probably put up the same numbers.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
I'm not a fan of signing Beltre either
But this is just crazy talk. If I understand you correctly, you believe that signing Beltre would be a horrible overpay for a guy who doesn’t get on base much and doesn’t have great power. Fair enough. However, you claim that overpaying for Crawford—who doesn’t get on base either and hits for even less power—by an even greater amount would be awesome because he plays left field and not third base. Is speed really such a big deal that you can just forget about their relative batting performances?
Break it down.
Crawford looks like he will cost an average 17 million a year for 5 years. That’s a Torii Hunter contract and you don’t hand those out unless you’re sure what you’re getting.
So you know for a fact that Crawford will not slow down or hit for a significantly lower average when he’s 34? If either of these things happen, he becomes a useless player with a huge paycheck.
Beltre, will cost between 12-15 million dollars, not much less than Crawford. However, the Angels don’t need a 3B, they already have Alberto Callaspo
If you want to use that argument, the Angels don’t need a left-fielder either, since they already have Juan Rivera, Bobby Abreu, and Reggie Willits. If you’re happy with a below-average bat at third base, why is left field any different?
NOW TELL ME, WHY WOULD WE PAY 11-14 MILLION MORE FOR 15 HR’s A YEAR?
I don’t know, maybe you can tell me why you want to pay $17 million or more for 15 HR’s a year in Crawford? He’s never hit more than 18 of them in a single season, and he’s averaged about 14 per season in the last six years. His power is below average in left field, but you’re hoping he can make up a lot of value with his legs. That’s kind of insane considering his career .337 OBP.
Not only would we have to move Callaspo to 2B, but we’d also lose Howie Kendrick. So essentially the cost of Adrian Beltre would be 11-14 million + Howie Kendrick…If we trade away Howie we’d be just as good throwing Frandsen or Amarista out there at 2B, they’d probably put up the same numbers.
Okay, first of all, if you trade someone, you also get value back, so it’s not a sunk cost. Second, why is it necessarily Kendrick getting traded and not Callaspo, or possibly Izturis? Third, you can’t just assume Frandsen or Amarista would be “just as good” as Callaspo or Kendrick or anyone else at second. Frandsen already has a track record of weak hitting and lousy fielding, and Amarista has hardly played above A ball. Fourth, if you sign Crawford, you similarly have to juggle the outfield. The Angels would probably have to dump Rivera, and that would be a sunk cost, because no one is going to give you anything for Juan Rivera.
The argument against Beltre is exactly the same argument against Crawford. They’ll be expensive, they’re getting old, and they can’t keep up with performing above their career norms. It’s really a wash: Crawford is faster, but Beltre has more power. If you’re going to make the argument in favor of one, you have to be consistent and apply it to the other.
Speed IS that important to this team
It’s because of the style of ball we play. This is the first year I’ve seen that the Angels weren’t a “1st to 3rd” type of team. We aren’t pressuring defenses, we aren’t getting into scoring position, we aren’t stealing bases, we aren’t driving in runs. Has anyone else noticed the direct connection between this team not having a consistent top of the order base threat and its inability to score runs?
Yeah I know, it’s because we don’t hit with RISP. Call me crazy, but I think if we get Crawford, he’ll drive people in, move people into scoring position and get himself into scoring position. This will create even more opportunity, which will result in more runs, especially since we will get Kendry back. That’s the reason why I’m willing to pay for Carl Crawford and not Adrian Beltre. At age 34, there’s a great chance that Crawford is still going to be stealing at least 30 bags a year. Right now he’s averaging 54 SB a year. His career BA is .296. And for those who think he doesn’t get on base enough, his last two seasons he’s posted a .364 and .356 OBP, all while producing at his career norms. On top of which, while Beltre will hit about 10 more HR’s a year than Crawford, Crawford also averages 14 triples a year, I’d say that makes up for it when you add that onto his higher BA and 50 more SB.
I feel like there is a MUCH stronger case to get Carl Crawford than there is Adrian Beltre. I think I’d go after Dunn before I pursued Beltre.
Second, why is it necessarily Kendrick getting traded and not Callaspo, or possibly Izturis?/blockquote>
Simple, we’re not going to trade Callaspo, we just acquired him and he’s still cheap and has the ability to play 3 infield positions. We aren’t going to trade Izturis because that doesn’t open up any starting infield spots, only backup spots and relegating Callaspo to backup duty would be unwise.
True, there’s no way to know if Frandsen or Amarista would be able to capably fill in for Howie. However, Howie’s only batting .280, is playing solid defense and isn’t really stealing any bags and collecting RBI’s. He’s a good ball player that just isn’t living up to great expectations. I’m confident that Frandsen could handle 2B and not hurt this team given the chance. I’m confident that Izturis can handle 2B capably if he stays healthy. I’m confident that if Amarista plays 2B, he wouldn’t embarrass himself, but I do feel that another year in AAA is necessary.
We need to spend our money wisely and cut corners where needed. I feel like a Napoli-Ellsbury trade really could work but we’ve been over that already. I feel like this team can afford to deal Napoli and Juan Rivera and come out better for it, at the top and possibly throughout the organization.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Block quote fail, I shall punish myself!
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
Getting on base is more important than what you do on the bases
Last year’s team was not a great base running team either, but they scored the most runs ever in franchise history. What changed? The team OBP has dropped from .350 to .315. That’s a cost about 350 base runners over a full season, representing a loss of almost 150 runs. That’s huge. That’s the difference between where the Yankees are right now and where the Angels are right now.
It totally overpowers the number of runs lost because of sacrifices, steals, hits-and-runs, all that “pressure the defense” stuff (it’s not actually true that the 2010 Angels don’t go first-to-third, they do it more than anyone else in the AL). How many runs worse do you suppose the Angels are on the bases this year? 20? 25? It’s in there somewhere. That still makes the runs lost to OBP more than 5 times as significant than the runs lost on the bases.
Of course, the biggest reason the team OBP has dropped so much is because the team batting average has fallen from .285 to .253. But this is the root of the Angels’ offensive problems over the years: they rely too much on batting average to get on base. Under that heading, you can see: Crawford, Carl. Surprisingly, the Rays have an even worse team batting average than the Angels right now, but Crawford isn’t the reason they’re going to the playoffs and the Angels aren’t. Pitching is half the reason. The other half is that they walk more than any other team in baseball.
Upgrading on speed before on-base ability is putting the cart before the horse.
good points
but CC’s OBP has been pretty good the last couple of seasons, so if that holds up in the future he brings that PLUS his speed. besides the price, whats not to like?
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Last year, we still had those base stealing threats....
Figgins was a lock for 40+ SB, Abreu swiped 30, Hunter was a step faster. Plus, given Crawford’s OBP this year, he’d still be on base more than anyone else on this team. And the runs he’d save playing LF, Bourjos could shade RF a bit more, save a few more runs, Hunter could play the line a little more.
Crawford makes things happen, because he’s fast and he has pop. They can’t play him like they do Reggie. When it comes down to it, I’ll pay 17 million for .300/.350 35 DB 15 triple, 15 HR, 50 SB and the best defensive OF in baseball, before I’d pay 13 million for .275/.330 35 DB 25 HR and gold glove 3B.
How about this, if we can make my dream trade, Napoli for Ellsbury, then we can sign Beltre. Otherwise, I think it’s bad juju.
"You play for Cleveland? I didn't know they still had a team." - Claire Holloway
"Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!" - Jake Taylor
The Halos already have the best defensive OF in baseball
he goes by the name Peter, and he flys around the OF like Peter Muther-effing Pan. although I’m not quite sure how he musters up all those happy thoughts given the teams current state. guess he’s just happy to be in the bigs.
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 10, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he meant
Best overall outfield with Crawford, Bourjos and Hunter.
well then he needs to be more clear dammit!!
joking. looking back I can see it meaning that as well
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 10, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I am OK with Beltre if
it means we add more. If we have learned anything over the last two months, it is that one bat may not be enough to fix this team. With Bourjos still growing, Torii getting older, Abreu getting older, and now inconsistency from Kendrick and Aybar, the question remains if a team of these guys with Morales back and adding Crawford or Beltre will make us good enough to win.
If getting Beltre means we can spend more and try and get Adam Dunn or Victor Martinez, then I am for it. If we are only going to add one major bat, I would prefer Crawford or Dunn.
Jeffy overshadows Little Mike again!
Wouldn’t you know it! What should have been a game winning HR, as well as a run saving double play at 1B, by Mike Napoli goes unnoticed because of Mathis’s lousy fly ball. Never mind that Mathis already choked on a stupid squeeze bunt attempt earlier.
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
by Rally Manatee on Sep 9, 2010 4:17 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I vote UNSURE on Crawford, and I vote to move Morales to 3B
I can see how he would fit nicely since we could use a new LF. And if he’s willing to bat lead-off, that solves another problem. As everyone has already asked though, will he be worth the money, especially 3 or 4 years from now? We’d also have to find a suitor for Juan Rivera, unless we are willing to release yet another guy and keep paying his salary (a la GMJ and Justin Speier), or pay him to sit. We owe him 5 1/4 million for 2011. Is that price reasonable for a reserve LF/RF/1B/DH? It’s about half what GMJ got to ride the pine.
I don’t see Crawford as the answer to our power shortage though. I wouldn’t count on him to keep hitting 15 HR every year as he ages. I think we’ve got keep Napoli in the lineup every day. Either, he needs to learn 3B, or perhaps more realistically, Morales should learn 3B, and Naps can continue to improve at 1B and DH on occasion. It would sure be sweet to have power at both corner positions. That would also make either Callaspo or Kendrick expendable. What could we get in exchange for a package that includes an experienced 2Bman and catcher (Mathis!!!)?
"jut keep winning babt" - Moondoggy
OR
move Morales to LF. assuming his foot/leg can handle it, I don’t see why he couldn’t play left. if Texeria were on the team, he’d be playing the OF, so why is this still not an option? He has experience playing the OF, so its not completely crazy to think he could do it again. this is assuming his leg is alright though, if it isn’t then he is most definitely better off staying at 1st where he isn’t near as mobile.
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
nevermind
after thinking more about his injury and the fact that we want to amke sure he stays healthy, this is a bad idea. keep him at 1st, get Mathis the hell out of town and let Nap catch/DH so that he is in the lineup for 150 games.
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by 2pintsofbooze on Sep 9, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
the reason i think we gott go after crawford as hard as we can is...
we are going to have a top 15 pick this year and who knows when we will again. get crawford and a top pick like in 04 with vlad and weaver
If you didn't know by now, my screen name is sarcastic
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L’Shana Tova, everyone! Happy New Year.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
by red floyd on Sep 9, 2010 8:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
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