Stop bitching and innovate
Longtime lurker, once-in-a-blue-moon poster here.
I share with the HH community, a winter offseason of discontent. When paraphrasing Tony Reagins, "I'm not ready to declare this offseason a failure," I have to ask: When will you be ready? Alas, I love the Angels and will support them come hell or high water in 2011. We might just pleasantly surprise some people and I hope we do.
Recently, there have been some themes relating to media in recent posts: Fire Mark Gubicza, Lunchtime Halo Talk, etc. and I often wonder about our community and its impact on the culture of the Angels both inside the clubhouse and among the general fan-base.
I think eventually, there will be a natural evolution of technology that will enable us to discuss the game in real-time. Forget comments. I'm talking about radio broadcasts powered by the community; a peanut-gallery of goofballs, catcalls, insights and epiphanies.
Clearly, the HH community thrives because of the diversity of opinions about Angels baseball that are not part of the corporate marketing machine all significantly large organizations employ.
So, I'm calling out HH administrators. Instead of bashing the safe choices served up by our paternal affiliation using a 100 year old format, with limited vibrancy to the order of 2 human beings, let's make our own broadcast, our own play-by-play, our own show!
Lunchtime Halo Talk is a good first step.
Now, let's turn down the volume on FSN or KCOP broadcasts, turn up the HH Airwaves and introduce our own format making commentary, performing seances, taking callers during commercials... the possibilities are endless.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Well... isn't this ironic.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
"No I don't hate atomburn,
but i pity the fool, and I will destroy any man who tries to take what I got!"
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 18, 2011 6:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm looking forward to the HH seance...
…that should be tremendous. Who will we be conjuring up from the afterlife?
I see red people
Halowood, let's summon Halowood.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 18, 2011 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
angelsfan015?
Supplier of Angels Fans Since 2009
by DAD OF VLAD on Jan 18, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
I'm still here.
You can’t summon those still around. And NO, I am not Halowood. Never was, never will be no matter all your insuations.
by Angelsfan015 on Jan 19, 2011 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
Scott Boras would say that. is that you Scotty?
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
johnsamo?
"Don't turn the channel, ... no matter what the score is." -David Eckstein
by princeton11loveshalos on Jan 20, 2011 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
the pope is in talks of making him a saint for his diverity he lived with
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
Im down
Ill be color guy, I can entertain anyone with a few shots in me. And by shots I mean black tar heroin.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
by PhiSlamma on Jan 18, 2011 12:40 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Dude, have you never been on a game thread?
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Atomburn, we've tried that.
We had/have a thing we call a Mutecast that we tried doing during the games, but the BlogTalk platform has a delay. It’s kind of hard to do a modified play-by-play when what you’re describing has already happened for the listeners.
I think we’ll do it again this upcoming season, we just can’t talk about the specific action happening on the field.
Try Talkshoe.
I was experimenting with this for Rev a couple of seasons ago and it was working pretty well.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Lawsuit
Surely you’ve heard this before:
Any rebroadcast, retransmission, or account of this game, without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, is prohibited.
I don’t know the relevant case law, but MLB would certainly take this issue to court. Remember when the NFL sued a group of churches for holding Superbowl parties a few years ago? SBN would probably rather shutter this site than lawyer up for a similar fight with MLB.
We complain because all we can do is complain. Sports organizations guard their intellectual property with vengeance and fury. I know it’s hard to fathom a use of “Mark Gubicza” and “intellectual” in the same sentence, but the broadcast booth is MLB’s IP, and they can make convincing arguments about losing advertising and promotional exposure if fans had access to underground audio feeds.
The laws have to change first. We could “innovate” out the entire US Congress and replace them with representatives who aren’t subject to powerful media lobbies. Then again, we might as well solve war, disease, and poverty while we’re at it.
by Suboptimal on Jan 18, 2011 2:14 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or do you want to see me hit some dingers?


The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
by Slasher52 on Jan 18, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
dingers
Supplier of Angels Fans Since 2009
by DAD OF VLAD on Jan 18, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
It's been a long time since I've seen the ep.
What is that under McGwire’s cap?
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
The credit, financial and purchasing info,
Of every person that had ever watched a MLB game.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Yep.
And you’d better get their “express written permission” of MLB if you plan to do anything with their “account” of the game. Or else it’s five minute in the closet with Sammy.

The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Nah.
We can already turn off the television audio and insert the radio audio. That meets the same standard concerning ad/promo revenue, since those are not in sync between the two broadcasts already. MuteCast is merely using the Internet to deliver a telephone conference call during a game. We could be using a ton of different products and services to realize this, and they are pretty much the same, but all include well-established technologies for which MLB has no recourse.
Heck, if you listen to ESPN radio on weekends you will hear the commentators giving nearly play-by-play updates of pro/college games in progress while those actual broadcasts are on competing radio stations.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
They claim ownership over any "account" of a baseball game
The full extent of that right has never been tested in court. The FTC and FCC have received complaints about the vague generality, and so far they’ve offered no regulatory guidance. If mutecasting sporting events became an Internet phenomenon, I can guarantee the leagues would go after it, both through congress and the courts.
Well, that is painting with a very broad brush.
They could as easily clamp down on game threads on Internet blogs, and media recaps in all forms, and historical literature, and on and on.
Nobody is advocating taking the accounts of the game that they, themselves are broadcasting and repeating those accounts over another media free of charge (for example, replaying the play by play audio account from the television broadcast booth). These would be our own accounts, and nobody but us have rights to them.
A bunch of fans hanging out and following a broadcast, sharing their private viewing experiences by talking to one another, would be an imposition on my rights to free speech. Say hello to the ACLU.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
by Stirrups on Jan 18, 2011 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Speaking of the ACLU
Their lawsuit against the school fees is horrible. Well, decent in theory and some applications, but in a broad scope, it’ll kill half the events at my school. Ugh.
In any case, I loved the mutecasts and whatnot, they’d make games fun. Especially considering what we’re looking at watching. . .
OT
I had no idea what you were writing about concerning school fees, so I looked it up. I gotta admit that I agree with the ACLU on this one. Asking kids to pay a fee to participate in something optional, something that is of their personal choice, makes total sense. But forcing kids to pay a fee in order to participate in a program that they are legally mandated to attend is a whole ’nother kettle of fish. Especailly since, in theory, their parents have already been charged for that program (via taxes).
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
It kind of depends, imo
I’m going off my experience in band, but each year we paid a 350~ dollar band fee, to help pay for coaching, transportation, music, etc. From what I understood of the lawsuit, the band wouldn’t be able to charge the fees, so a lot of the marching and whatnot that we do would go down the tubes. All of my friends who were in other extracurriculars also were saying that their clubs/teams/whatever relied a lot on fees like that to function.
I asked a few of my teachers about it, and they said the decision reaches pretty much every aspect of school, mandatory or not. Like, fine arts or physical …stuff is mandatory, but not the marching band or a sport in particular. We DO have to pay currently for PE Uniforms though, which I think is wrong, but I think the extracurriculars should be able to charge money, so they can still exist.
Basically, I think charging for something mandatory like PE Uniforms is bad, but for an extracurricular that you don’t have to be in, it should be fine. Ideally, you shouldn’t have to pay for that stuff, but with the economy as it is, the fees are necessary to keep extracurriculars alive.
I think that post makes sense, but I haven’t gotten enough sleep lately, so apologies if I rambled.
by TheKingfish on Jan 18, 2011 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
You are agreeing with me.
Extra-curriculars are optional, so fees are appropriate (and I would argue that htey should be mandatory).
Math, being a mandatory (and already funded) program, should not be charging any fees.
And any idea that the current economic and state budget situation changes those things is a discussion for other forums.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Ah, yes, sorry. Just needed to vent a little.
by TheKingfish on Jan 19, 2011 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
Eh, no worries.
Not like there’s much baseball related news to discuss right now anyway. I hadn’t even heard of this case either, so I’ll probably go look it up at some point today to kill off some downtime.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 19, 2011 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
this is why I think its crazy that
schools make kids supply their own graphing calculator when in Algebra 2. those things run at or around $100 (if I remember correctly). I thought it was crazy that the school expected every family to spend that type of money just so the teachers can have them make little graphs and such.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 19, 2011 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I totally get the value and benefit to learning
by making “little graphs and such”. Observing the power of numbers to bend lines is the precise value that mathematics brings to our everyday world. Everyone should have that understanding.
But, to your point, yeah, there are other ways to drill in this lesson without adding a new tax on each student every semester.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
nice
I remember there was a game we would exchange from one TI to the other which was called Drug Wars. you were a dealer trying to build an empire by supplying the campus with various drugs. we’d be sitting in A2 and half the class would be figuring out how to sell 1000 hits of ectasy instead of graphing the problem on the board. made a 2 hour class of A2 go by much faster
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 19, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
I agree, it should be considered free speech
But free speech is a confused concept in the age of DMCA. Until the case law accumulates, “free speech” is whatever the rights holders say it is. C&D orders allow MLB and others to shut down small-scale infringements (real or perceived) with minimal effort.
Digital utopians want to think that the Internet is like Al Qaeda. As we’ve heard over and over, you can’t just drop a bomb on them because they don’t have a return address. The Internet was supposed to be this wonderful place where free society could reign, and all the Powers That Be could do was pull at their own comb-overs.
Unfortunately, you need centralized networked resources to get anything done en masse. Even peer-to-peer traffic has to be coordinated somehow. Entities such as YouTube and JustinTV persist by playing nice. Fear of getting sued tied up in court, or outright destroyed like Napster and Kazaa, keeps the voluntary enforcement regime in place.
SBN is in the same position. It doesn’t matter if mutecasting might be free speech— they couldn’t afford the lawsuit needed to find out. It’s cool so long as no one notices, but with the traffic SBN shares with Yahoo Sports, SI, and such, someone will notice eventually.
No one has challenged MLB’s overextension of its copyright privileges in court. If the ACLU wants to do it, then rock on, brothers. I’ll look forward to the settlement details.
In 2018.
Let's make sure that we keep things straight here.
A mutecast has nothing to do with SBN. SBN isn’t a talkcast. A mutecast depends on some other media/technical resource. (As it happens, Rev and WiHalo use blogtalkradio.com, but that is by no means the only service that exists.)
However, just for basic conversation, set aside the Internet. How fearful would you be about some MLB legal challenge to a mutecast if we all just got together and phoned into my teleconference bridge and hung out there, chatting about the game in progress?
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
I don't see how the situations are analogous
MLB claims rights over “rebroadcasts” and “retransmissions.” The meanings of those terms aren’t clear, so far as I know, but a lawyer would argue that the mutecast falls into one or both of those categories. It’s a real-time description of the game, available to anyone with the means to receive, intended to supplant the official broadcast. Therefore, it’s a fiscal threat to the copyright holder, a dilution of their IP, whatever. Lots of legal footholds to grab onto there.
It would be much tougher to make the case for a bunch of guys on a conference call. Supposing MLB even found out about, the “any description of this event” clause in the broadcast disclaimer isn’t likely to hold water in court. Whether or not MLB condones the activity, litigation isn’t worth the possibility of losing media licensees by having the “any description” clause shot down.
And yes, I do realize that SBN technically does not host the radio shows. MLB could just go after BTR instead. However, if HH continued to mutecast by switching providers, MLB might take issue with SBN over it. There’s still no judicial decision to clarify whether or not websites are responsible for hyperlinks or embedded media. Again, I imagine SBN would rather pull the plug on HH’s mutecasts than do the public a favor and try to clear up that particular legal point in court.
Stirrups has got a point here
His teleconference bridge and a mutecast may not be quite analogous in legal terms, but they are very similar in terms of atomburns’ original idea as I understand it.
Anyone who has ever seriously participated in online gaming has probably used some type of VOIP program to communicate with their buddies, squad, clan, whatever. Consoles have their systems, and PC gamers have a couple programs to choose from, like Teamspeak and others. All you need is a server to host the channel and someone to setup a password and other entry requirements. In theory, there wouldn’t be any difference in setting up a channel for members of a baseball blog to use together while they watched games in comparison to setting one up for a bunch of clan members to use while they play World of Warcraft or CoD.
Like you point out, it’d probably be a lot tougher to take legal action against something like this too. It’s really more of a VOIP conference as opposed to a broadcast. A good buddy of mine calls me a lot during the season while he’s at work (sometimes multiple times a game) to find out what’s going on in the game that night. There’s no way MLB could go after something like that and a VOIP channel wouldn’t be all that different. If we really wanted to be safe, just have Moondoggy host the channel from Thailand or something. ;)
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 19, 2011 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
It is directly analogous.
Your reaction when you read that should have been something along the lines of “Well, that’s absurd.”, which is why I used it.
The telephone conference consists of a number of individual parties using an electronic device consisting of a speaker, a microphone, and a connection to a public switched network who each use these devices to connect to a central audio service with the intent to communicate orally with any/all other parties. This function has been in wide use and fully supported, both by the consumer and within well-established legal standards, since the early days of public telephone service and “party lines”.
Now:
- for the electronic device we merely replace “telephone” with “computer”
- for the “handset” containing the speaker and microphone we substitute “computer speakers” and “computer mic”
- for the public switched network we replace “ma bell” with “ma internet”
- for the conferencing system we replace PacBell party lines or my personal “Verizon MyMeetings teleconferencing service” with “BlogTalkRadio”.
- and what we retain is “the intent to communicate orally with any/all other parties”
Therefore — directly analogous. And, yes, it is absurd to think that MLB would be able to squash that. I have little doubt that they would try, just to bully the little guys into some shy behavior favorable to MLB. But I cannot possibly see how they would actually win at trial.
As to your points about "any description of this event" and “all accounts”, well, I still insist that those apply to MLB’s descriptions and MLB’s accounts, not mine. For them to claim that they hold legal control over MY descriptions and MY accounts, they would have to presume the legal authority to silence me and my friends and family as we walk from the stadium to our car after a game. And they would have to claim that they hold legal control over my placing a phone call to tell my son halfway across the country about the amazing play that I just witnessed. And they would have to claim that they have the legal right to shut down my three-way phone call to join in my other son up in LA, so that we could all share in the excitement. And…oh wait…what do you know? There we are back at that teleconferencing point again, aren’t we?
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
They are technologically analogous
But are they legally analogous? There are different legal frameworks for “telephone services” and “broadcast services.” The distinction between electronic communication facilitating a mutual exchange between private parties (telephone) and electronic communication facilitating one-way transmission from a central source to the public (broadcast) is critical. MLB has clear legal rights over the latter.
Obviously there’s some ambiguity if you were to, say, set up a private VoIP server and create a “conference call” for thousands of people. Corporations do this kind of thing for their quarterly earnings reports. However, if you posted your server’s address on the front page of HH, then the argument could be made that you were, in essence, broadcasting to the public. MLB would send off a quick C&D order to SBN, and they would rather comply than raise a legal challenge.
As for the “any description” clause, it is exactly what MLB claims it is, pending litigation. I remember hearing that Google and others filed suit over this maybe about four years ago, but I don’t think it’s gone anywhere. A few private individuals have tried to test it, with no conclusion so far.
It is a ridiculous claim on MLB’s part, but it serves its purpose. They make billions off of broadcast exclusivity agreements. A strange thing when you think about it. A baseball game is just an event taking place at a certain place at a certain time. Media outlets don’t need to negotiate broadcast rights with your neighbor to cover your neighbor’s cat getting rescued from a tall jacaranda. But MLB’s sweet deal is maintained by a vast network of lawyering and lobbying. They won’t change their broad disclaimer until these interests are threatened.
Services like Teamspeak would fall under your former definition I imagine
It is essentially a VoIP conference hosted on some server(s) somewhere. The only thing anyone would need to participate is a computer with internet acces, speakers and a microphone, and the login info. Once in, all anybody has to do is hit the transmit key on their keyboard and speak to everyone on their channel. Depending on the actual program used, the moderators could allow/deny access to anyone they wanted; mute certain or all members if they had an announcement to make; and create sub-channels for certain topics if they wanted.
It isn’t a broadcast in the sense that only the hosts can speak and disseminate information – anyone on the channel would be able to do that. In essence, it would simply be an audio version of the game threads, fanposts and fanshots we already have here.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 19, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Sure
Teamspeak or Roger Wilco (does that even still exist?) are no problem so long as they’re limited in scope. If you posted the IP to your Facebook page and your buddies ganged up to chat about the game online, then I imagine any court would uphold your activity as free speech. But if you hosted hundreds or thousands of clients, most of whom did not take part in the conversation, and made the IP address publicly available on a high-traffic website, then cut anchor or prepare to be boarded.
Anyways, I doubt Teamspeak would be up to that kind of activity. A large game of Bad Company 2 is chaos enough.
This link might be of interest. I'ts one person's attempt at getting permission from MLB.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Jan 19, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I forgot about Roger Wilco
Haven’t seen it since my WWII Online days. Honestly, I don’t even know if Teamspeak is still around because it’s been a while since I’ve taken fragging n00bs on the digital battlefield that seriously. You’re right about the stability of these services when the numbers get to a certain point, but I’m sure there’s something quite similar that could handle more people.
I’m also not sure how much of an argument MLB would have about “losing their intellecutal property” if some on HH decided to do this. I have no doubt this site gets high traffic, but the regular participation in game threads seems to be in the high tens or low hundreds of people, most of whom are actually watching the game at the same time on TV. Then there’s folks like me who think this is a cool idea but probably wouldn’t participate very often because I have to dedicate as much bandwidth as possilbe to MLB.tv. In reality, there’d be a fraction of a percent of the entire audience using something like this and frankly I don’t think MLB or the courts would find it worth their time to pursue.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 19, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
As far as I know Teamspeak is still used quite a bit for things like WoW and the like
That and Ventrilo.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Technically speaking,
game threads do violate the language of the MLB disclaimer. That is precisely how stupid that disclaimer has always been, and why it would not stand up to serious challenge.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Per your link to the guy who tried to get permission
the result is not so much that there is no conclusion so far. The result is more that MLB metaphorically hung up on the guy, literally putting a conclusion on their interests in this kind of activity.
But, better yet, follow the related links in that post. You will get to this. Not only is there prevailing legal opinion (albeit outside of court proceedings) concerning the overreach of claims such as MLB makes, but you have an actual instance of the FCC specifically tweaking MLB in the nose directly (using twitter instead of an audio bridge), practically daring them to to issue a C&D.
So we agree that we are discussing the use of a technology that has direct correlation to people having a phone chat about a game while ongoing. And you link to a moderately well-known example of MLB choosing to ignore behavior of this sort. And, beyond your link, we have an explicit case of the government setting an example of using a parallel technology to flaunt the MLB disclaimer. And, also beyond your link, we have contact with legal professionals versed in this area of law who have no problem rendering an opinion that MLB is way beyond their actual legal powers. I say we go for it. Worse case, as you pointed out earlier, MLB issues a C&D to SBN because they are hosting blog posts wherein we members are broadcasting our intent to host a private audio conference to chat about their product as fans.
But if they were to come after me, again I say: (213) 977-9500!!
(By the way, strictly speaking, those of us participating in the audio con call are not broadcasting anything. Using a web audio bridge is a unicast or a multicast. This is splitting hairs, I know, but worthy of garnering legal support somewhere.)
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
The FCC incident was humorous
And rather unexpected, given the extent to which they’ve bent over for corporate interests recently (such as yesterday). The FCC is the most consumer-friendly entity in play here, but the new congress has them scared shitless. They don’t want to piss off Big Media too much, or they’ll just lobby their representatives to legislate the FCC’s agenda out of the regulatory process.
Nevertheless, I have half a mind to contact MLBAM and ask if they have a policy regarding activities like mutecasting. It would be kind of pointless since I’m nearly 100% sure they think it’s infringement, and I would rather beg forgiveness than ask permission in this case. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see mutecasting as a viable alternative to the insulting commentary they offer us through their media affiliates. I’ve just seen too many victories for rightsholders in recent years to have much hope for it.
You're talking about the Comcast/NBC deal aren't you?
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 19, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
You mean the alliance between the Galactic Empire and the Armies of Sauron?
Yeah, I guess I am. As a long-time Comcast customer (with virtually zero choice in the matter), I can think of no one I would trust less with such power. Except maybe Verizon, AT&T, Time Warner, and all the other service providers who will now be scrambling to find merger partners for themselves.
Maybe the opposition should have used those terms...
Then the mass e-mail I got from Al Franken’s people the other day might have been a happy one instead of sad one.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 20, 2011 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
I would follow that other guy's example...
…and seek permission to blog on game threads, if I wasn’t simply dangling SBN out as bait. Uncool.
I have to assume that mainstream sports blog sites (Yahoo, ESPN, CBS, MSNBC. etc.) who have live game chat rooms for all sports already have some sort of lawyerly 3-martini agreement on this activity.
But, I actually don’t have any problem putting the ACLU to some good use here. This could be a good season to be mischevious. It’s not as if we have much else to get excited about so we might as well make a name for ourselves as we expand fan rights for everybody. Count me in.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
On a related note
Today, MLB officially threw its weight behind COICA, along with the NFL and the NBA. If you’re unfamiliar with this particular legal gem, here’s a preview of the kind of enforcement regime interests like MLB have in mind.
I should back off of this before running afoul of the “Angels and baseball are topics” rule. Let’s just say that I love the game on the field, but my feelings about MLB as a private enterprise with political clout are…mixed.
Well, we know none of that clout comes from our FO
So there’s that at least.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 20, 2011 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
So if we sit in our living rooms with the volume down and talk to each other about the game it's a rebroadcast?
Mutecasting is essentially all that is…kind of like listening in on a Skype conversation in which two people are talking to each other about the game. If I call up my brother in NC and we talk to each other about the game while it’s happening, is that a rebroadcast?
I haven’t taken IP or Communications Law, but I don’t think that’s what it’s saying.
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
No, its the broadcasting part- the public essence of the transmission- that causes them trouble
Because if the MLB’s advertisers find out they are being circumvented by various broadcasts they wouldnt want to spend as much to advertise during a game.
by Balls and Strikes on Jan 18, 2011 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
Shooooosh!
Let’s not tell them about mute buttons, bathroom breaks, beer runs, DVRs, channel surfing…
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Ah, good point there about the advertisers.
Still, legitimate reason to want to prohibit it or no, I don’t see a legal reason they’d be able to ban it, unless we were somehow profiting from it. Perhaps this goes into those RIAA-type lawsuits.
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
Are you sure you have the right wording?
I thought it was “Any rebroadcast or retransmission of the images and accounts of this game. . .”. I don’t believe a netcast of game reactions, done of, by, and for the participants, would be an infringement of their rights; I think it would be fair use.
Nevertheless, you are doubtless correct that if MLB asked for an injunction they’d get it; the courts over the past few decades have shown a decided bias towards whatever insane demands rights holders, or companies with big lawyers who claim to be rights holders, make. In the process, they’ve greatly distorted the whole concept of copyright. The situation is so confusing now that generally he who has the biggest lawyers wins. For example, the Irving Berlin Estate has successfully protected the copyright on every song Berlin wrote, even though many of them have fallen into the public domain, just because no one wants to compete with their deep pockets.
My point is
No one knows whether it’s Fair Use or not until the courts say something about it, and SBN, BTR, and any other legitimate hosting service would rather comply with C&D orders than confront the litigation.
And that point is well taken.
I just think that given enough lawyerage, one could make a successful case that it is fair use. If. I were a super-rich George Soros type of big wheel, my service to humanity would be to fund a public interest law firm that would fight such fights, the kind of fights that the other public interest law firms don’t care about.
After I won this battle, I’d take on the MLB about their stupid media market territory policy. . . .
I agree with Subop as to the legality of it
However its smalltime and not gaining any direct revenue so the MLB wouldnt waste its time.
However, if we actually got a mutecast thing up with no delay I would love to hear different members of HH on (including myself) to see if anyone sticks/has entertaining enough stuff to say. I think it would add a fun element to the site.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
All they'd need to do is write a cease and desist
MLB send hundreds of them every day. Hardly anyone fights back.
Pshhh...they don't even know our real names
And besides, Phi’s an endangered species, so such action would violate numerous environmental and civil liberties statutes. A case like that would probably be a first that every lawyer in America would be willing to take, regardless of which side they were on.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 18, 2011 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
II think that he means that the lawyers would send cease and desist to the audio hosting site.)
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Just find lawyers to fight the lawyers
It’s the American Way!
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 18, 2011 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
But MY lawyers are free.
How’s THAT for leveraged warfare?
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Your lawyers are always free...
…if you win.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 18, 2011 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Untrue.
True story: I used to work as the global Director of IT Ops for a very large law firm, which shall go unnamed here.
After the whole ENRON debacle a few municipal entities decided to sue a major, major energy company and reclaim what they felt were predatory energy fees for their rate holders. The potential exposure to this particular energy company was something like $3 – 5 billion, IIRC. My law firm represented the energy company.
After all was said and done, the court found in favor of the plaintiffs. For $500,000. And the defendants held a drunken binge for the entire defense team and a great time was had by all.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Yep, nice.
The free thing is also untrue in that the lawyers often get something like a 30% contingency (or less if that’s declared “unreasonable” by the courts)—so of your $10 million personal injury verdict, assuming you’re even able to collect it from the defendant, your lawyer gets $3 million and you get $7 million, minus taxes, leaving you probably with about $4 million overall. Sweet deal.
Though if you LOSE such a case, on the other hand, THEN you usually, probably, don’t have to pay the lawyer, depending on your contract. If you lose in lower court, appeal, and still lose, however, then you have to pay for the other side’s attorney fees.
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
Why you guys gotta ruin my cheap jokes with facts?
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 19, 2011 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry.
I always thought that it was pretty funny that I worked for a bunch of top-of-their-class, high-powered, super-expensive lawyers whose primary value within the legal world was their ability to lose cheaply.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Me and Comm Nate on the Mic for every home game would be priceless
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
And generally rated NC-17
With a few trips into the X category.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 18, 2011 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
i rather listen to cats being skined
Supplier of Angels Fans Since 2009
by DAD OF VLAD on Jan 18, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
What makes you think that wasn't already going to be part of the broadcast?
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 19, 2011 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
Is Kellie Pickler going to be on the broadcast?
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Works for me.
Just no voice. Pweese?
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I can see the headline now
INTERNET BASEBALL BROADCASTING PANDA FIGHTS BACK AGAINST MLB/CONGRESS – Step aside Pablo Sandoval, there’s a new Kung Fu Panda in baseball, and he’s aiming to Karate chop MLB’s strict broadcasting rules.
I’d read that story
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 18, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
The fact that you picture me mentally as a drunk panda honors and amuses me.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
wait...you're not?
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 19, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
First they gotta find us!
Then they gotta CATCH us!
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Big Brother is always watching..............
always (hides)
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 18, 2011 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
If the Internet ID thingy that the president proposed
goes into effect Big Brother will definitely know who you are, where you are and what porn site tires your dominant hand out the most
I think this thread has officially closed.
Reagins innovated, and the bitching (deservedly) cannot be stopped.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim

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