Angels Release Mike Napoli, Sign Juan Rivera To Four-Year, $86 Million Extension
by Suboptimal on Jan 21, 2011 6:31 PM PST
in Angels News
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Ridiculous, right? I mean, that headline must be from The Onion.
Sadly, it's all too real. While it's still uncertain how many Canadian dollars (if any) the Blue Jays will pack into Mom's Attic when Vernon Wells rents his U-Haul next month, make no mistake. (Update: Looks like it will be zero Canadian dollars, so Vern can still stuff his golf clubs up there.) They're popping corks and smoking Cubans in Toronto tonight. Alex Anthopoulos has done the impossible.
Today, the Toronto Blue Jays unloaded one of the worst contracts in baseball history and got players with positive value in return. The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim have just agreed to take on the majority of Vernon Wells' seven-year, $126 million deal, signed in 2006, in exchange for Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera.
This trade doesn't even deserve the dignity of a formal analysis. The Angels voluntarily vacated about three or four wins next season while simultaneously boosting their payroll by nearly $10 million. Sure he had weaknesses, but Mike Napoli was the second-best offensive player on the 2010 Angels, and light-years better than Jeff Mathis. And even though Wells outperformed Juan Rivera last year, the two of them have been virtually identical hitters over the last four seasons. Wells may play center field for awhile, but if Torii Hunter's recent performance there was unsatisfactory, then he will find himself in Juan's old corner soon enough.
Wells, whose contract was a regular feature on the waiver wire, was previously thought to be unmovable. Tony Reagins, Arte Moreno, and Mike Scioscia are now the owners of the back-end of a deal back-loaded at the time of signing to account for uncertainties in the US-Canadian exchange rate. Sam Miller of the OC Register was noted that very rarely does a trade make one team "older, more expensive, and worse," all at the same time.
Thinking outside the box? Perhaps not thinking at all.
Cheers, everyone.
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My thoughts exactly
Sums it up
by LAstands4LovingAnaheim on Jan 21, 2011 7:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
brilliant analysis
the only bright spot is that for our $86 million, we won’t have Juan in RF anymore
What THE FUCK.
WTY's ERA+ = 135 I WIN!!!!!
by Figgi4life on Jan 21, 2011 6:33 PM PST via mobile reply actions
i am drinking still
so fuckin sick of this shit. FUCK YOU REAGINS
"Don't turn the channel, ... no matter what the score is." -David Eckstein
by princeton11loveshalos on Jan 21, 2011 6:34 PM PST reply actions
i already drank with friends
this is just making it worse
"Don't turn the channel, ... no matter what the score is." -David Eckstein
by princeton11loveshalos on Jan 21, 2011 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
I'd give my left nut to be 21, a senior in college drinking with my friends
This is not as bad a move as its being portrayed (I think anyways). We traded two bench players for a starting OF. Push the money aside (no one seems to know the details yet anyway). I would have rather had Crawford than Wells, but not by a whole lot.
Man…enjoy the weekend and bend one for me
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
by Moondoggy on Jan 21, 2011 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Crawford is better than Wells ... by a whole lot
They are not remotely comparable.
Crawford could lead-off or at least provide serious speed on the basepaths. He’s younger, been healthier, plays outstanding defense. The only category that Wells tops Crawford is power … but the difference is minimal. Crawford is such a superior player that it’s not even worth discussing.
Yeah, but Crawford wanted a long-term deal,
and it would be STOOPID to be on the hook to pay some guy $21 mill to try and hold down a power-hitting OF slot when they in their mid thirties…
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Guys who rely on speed also seem to drop off the cliff a whole lot faster
guys with pop fade into the distance
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
I actually...
..called my co-worker and told him about the trade, then I said,“Nah, just kidding man.” We laughed it off. Then I got a nasty text from him later reading “I HATE YOU.” hahahaha
This only makes sense with cash from toronto.
that HAS to be coming.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Only a Jim Healy show could cheer me up right now.
Did the Japanese have dinner with Pearl Harbor before they bombed her?
Awww thanks for putting an option for us Canadian visitors…
On a side note, Vernon is a great person, does tons of charity work and can be a useful player, Blue Jay fans had long since come to terms with him not living up to the contract.
In all honesty I wish the Angels the best of luck, You have always been my second favorite team behind Toronto, but thank you for taking him.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
by JohnnyG on Jan 21, 2011 6:36 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
joe fucking saunders has a great smile
but somehow im coping without him.
thanks for the sentiment though.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
how do you do it?
help others
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
mlb2k10 on my xbox.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
so
i have a Wii can i play the Bigs 2?
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
get a 360. do it for the children.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
had an xbox sold it for rent
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
Xbox definetely the wasy to go
Kinect blows wii away
by LAstands4LovingAnaheim on Jan 21, 2011 7:26 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ps3
Vote Napoli and Hunter for the 2012 election
by M.Napoli For President in 2012 on Jan 21, 2011 8:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Even if Mathis
did charity work and helped the poor by making soup for the homeless, I still wouldn’t like him.
Don't throw Mathis in the same sentence as Wells....
even if the discussion deals with how bad each of them are.
RIP NA
For $86 million dollars...
…I’m expecting more that a character reference
I see red people
by The Limey on Jan 21, 2011 6:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Im not gonna suger coat things. A lot of Jays fans are incredibly happy which likely means a lot of Angel fans will not be.
Again, Im not here to gloat but rather to offer my best wishes. I hope Wells continues to be a useful player like he was in 2010 (and 2008 before he got hurt). I know he will ever be worth his contract but I still wish you the best of luck.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
I, too, thank you for the Canadian option.
All my Jay-fan friends are all a-titter. Allow me to thank you on their behalf.
Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I got a$500 disablity check but today still sucks
wait really sucks
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
The trade OFFICIALLY INVOLVES
NO CASH!!
Representing the Angels in Sin City.
by maze88 on Jan 21, 2011 6:38 PM PST via mobile reply actions
It doesn't officially involve no cash
Cash officially not mentioned
by lightupthehalo29 on Jan 21, 2011 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
cash isnt mentioned
there will be cash.
there will be cash.
there will be cash.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
I got a text from MLB saying it is official and it involves NO cash.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/blue-jays-to-acquire-mike-napoli.html
Representing the Angels in Sin City.
by maze88 on Jan 21, 2011 6:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
MLB traderumors /= MLB
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Idk if that's a sad face but
I meant to write Trade rumors after MLB but I’m doing this via mobile while driving…
Representing the Angels in Sin City.
by maze88 on Jan 21, 2011 7:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
/= is hackneyed "does not equal."
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
The correct form is "!="
C and C++ programmer here :-)
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
10 Print “Downing Rules is cool”
20 Goto 10
RUN
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Which variant?
FORTRAN IV? WATFOR? WATFIV?
FORTRAN 77?
FORTRAN 95?
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
If that rumor holds up then Reagins is the biggest fucking moron GM in history
I’m expecting at LEAST $50 million from Toronto
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
Don't hold your breath
#BlueJays GM Anthopoulos confirms #Angels picking up all $86 million on Wells contract
Reagins isn't even the worst in Angels history
but the worst in a long time
by Rex Fregosi on Jan 21, 2011 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If there was a worse trade in Angels history by a GM, I'd love to hear it
What could beat mindlessly giving up TWO players that have positive trade value for a player who can normally be picked up for FREE off the waiver wire — and who just so happens to have the arguably WORST contract in baseball history, one that will also totally screw with this club’s financial ability to resign soon-to-be-pricey free agents Weav & Kendry?
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
Bichette was a horrible offensive player.
The revisionist history about him being useful is laughable.
He was a complete waste of a roster space throughout his entire career. He generated only 11.3 oWAR in his ENTIRE career. He made SO MANY OUTS and drew so few walks that he gave back everything he made with his few years of gaudy HR totals.
Plus he got those totals in the height of the HR bonanza in the mid-1990’s in the Mecca for the long ball – Coors Field (pre-humidor).
Seriously, the Parker trade was bad, but Bichette wasn’t a player that would have made a difference in Anaheim.
He was a replacement level player for the vast majority of his career. Amazing as that sounds.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
by jimmuscomp on Jan 21, 2011 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
OK. How about...
1. Allen Watson for J.T. Snow
2. Junior Felix and Luis Soho for Devon White
Those are two right off the top of my head. Although I must say that historically the Angels have had more bad free agent signings than bad trades.
CARNEY LANSFORD
December 10, 1980: Lansford traded by the California Angels with Mark Clear and Rick Miller to the Boston Red Sox for Rick Burleson and Butch Hobson.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2011 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
In hindsight, I suppose it does look really awful
I remember as a little kid being absolutely stoked about this trade, even though Lansford was my favorite player. In fact I can’t remember any fellow Halo fans that didn’t love this trade back then. Burleson was arguably the best shortstop in baseball at the time & that position was a major hole that had never really been filled since Fregosi left. His arm injury had absolutely nothing to do with the trade itself (and had everything to do with Gene Mauch, if I remember correctly, on not giving him any rest when he complained of soreness), and if he had stayed healthy, we’d probably rank this was one of Bavasi’s best trades ever.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 23, 2011 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
It's worth saying again....
In a battle of wits, Reagins is unarmed.
Make no mistake, to take on this much cash – Arte had to bless the deal. Furthermore, Reagins does not take a dump without Scoscia’s approval.
They all three, hereforth known as the “Stooges”, are complicit in this abortion of a trade cluster fuck.
by mustard_man on Jan 21, 2011 6:38 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
This is so dumb
I can’t believe this is true. Can we stage a coup d’etat?
I actually don't want to be a fan of this team anymore.
I’ve been a lifelong fan (33 years) and I don’t think I can go back to watching this team being run like complete shit. I’ve already suffered through that and feel that I would be a moron to go through it again.
This site is the only reason I can think of as to why I should remain a fan.
F U Jeff Mathis. We want Mike Napoli back.
by snowhor on Jan 21, 2011 6:39 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
No it doesn't
It proves he is stupid with his cash
by mustard_man on Jan 21, 2011 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 9 recs
yea
why “waste” money on good players like Beltre and Crawford when you can give up players and play 86 million for Wells.
Corrected that for you
The only way this deal makes some sense is if the Jays send the Angels $26 $86million and some prospects
I see red people
Even with the Jays throwing the Angels $26 million.
Wells would have to be at least a 3 WAR player for each and every year of the contract.
When he rejected Crawford and Beltre
It seemed as if the Angels had some understanding of market value.
But now this. It makes no sense.
wallet throwing anyone know his address?
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
What about Man U in 2009?
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
In the End
If the Angels do well this year no one will care about the deal
If they do bad this will be the worst of it.
Not true.
If they do well this year, they will still owe ~$65mil to Vernon freaking Wells.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
No way -- if they do badly, every night will be the worst of it.
We’ll have to live through an expensive, crap team night after night.
And will have to hear paid boosters like Lyle Spencer and Terry Smith tell us that we’re ingrates, and that the team is bound to turn around.
by Turks Teeth on Jan 21, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The option for " I actually like this deal" is winning
Surprise. This makes our team better cause Naps can’t catch, Wells can field, and the offense is a tradeoff at worst.
I will miss Naps too, but there is no where to put him. Unless u think catcher and he’s not very good at that.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
Lots of trolls click here as the internetz is buzzin.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
That's uncalled for Downing
I see you havn’t changed.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jan 21, 2011 6:48 PM PST up reply actions
huh?
what fish said.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 6:51 PM PST up reply actions
Whatever
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jan 21, 2011 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
I just read your headline ...
thought this: trolls come here, see the poll, and post for the bad option
And wrote what I wrote.
Why are you all up in my grill?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Because
I don’t think trolls count for 58% of the vote on HH. You are just trying to prove your point by dissing someone else. As is your norm.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jan 21, 2011 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
Peace man.
You obviously weren’t around for the votes where all of a sudden 1000 votes picked up for the ridiculous option in the poll.
I read your post after the fact and understand why you like the trade. Have I stated how I feel about it? I have been reserving judgment waiting to hear the $$ figures. So, how the heck can I be “proving a point?”
When do I diss people, VTI? I think someone needs a hug. Friends?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
(hugs moondoggy)
I’m still drinking Diet Pepsi every day. Does that make me an even better friend?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
VTI...
Now, after thinking about it …
This is a good trade for the Angels (I now agree with you), but at too high of a price tag. I will lament this trade when Kendry Morales and Jered Weaver are not able to be signed before they are free agents.
Vernon Wells Mike Napoli Juan Rivera (added so I can find this comment in the future)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 24, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, he's at least partially right
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 21, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
Don't worry man
I voted that I liked it. I’m a troll.
by coffeektchoo on Jan 22, 2011 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
Who is keeping score for you? It is obviously someone who cannot count.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
Im sorry but Wells won’t hit 350 and his GG days are well behind him.
He can still be useful, but he isn’t that guy anymore.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
The Problem
is that it’s $86 million for the next four years, for a player who can’t be expected to be much more than Juan Rivera. If Arte is crying poor, then it’s stupid to tie up this much money in a guy who doesn’t improve the ball club (particularly when you consider how much playing time this guarantees to Mathis). The same money could have been used to actually make the team better by signing Crawford or Beltre. The difference is basically that they didn’t want to pay $20 million/year for Crawford’s 29-31 seasons, but are happy to pay that much (more technically) for a player’s age 32-35 decline years. And that some mad scientist is going to create a 3B for them.
Uh...this is baseball
32-35 is still in the “prime”. Unlike basketball and football, baseball’s athletic time is a bit longer. Crawford didn’t want to come to the Angels and Beltre is not young either. So including those two guys in the argument is pointless, that time has come and gone.
Baseball is a sport with no salary cap, so players get crazy deals like this. Let’s hold judgment on this trade until a year later. What if this trade get’s the Angels over the top? Who knows? This is the Angels, they love throwing money at Center Fielders.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
there is only 1 person in MLB
who will make more $$$ than Wells this season, and that is Arod. don’t tell us to hold judgement
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
Day-yam. Is he gonna get like $35MM for the fifth year???
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
I have no idea
why you think 32-35 is a player’s prime, because it isn’t. You’re thinking of 27-32.
Crawford might have come if the Angels had topped Boston’s offer. Beltre might have come if they’d topped Texas’ offer. They didn’t, but then turned around and basically spent the same money on Wells. They would have been better off keeping the money and trying again next year, when there may be a lot more attractive FAs. But they decided Wells was better.
And I’m still wondering who’s going to be playing 3B for the next several years.
I haven't said it yet on this thread, so..
Reagins, you are a dumbshit asshole for making this deal.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Jan 21, 2011 6:45 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Does this mean no Albert Pujols?
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Let me know I am Tailgating it up good.
that may be the worst aspect of this trade
like we would get him anyways
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Pujols?
It definitely means no Pujols. It may also mean no Morales or Weaver.
Light up the Freakin Halo!
Given the Angels history
of having trouble retaining homegrown free agents, and Boras, and the VW bucks, I fear that is exactly the case.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe not.
When we have to re-up those two, Torii’s contract comes off the books, and so does Haren. There will be room in the budget, but man is it gonna cost.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
They'll probably want to extend after next year, though.
And they’ll probably deserve it.
But the FO will play lowball, we’ll piss them off by disrespecting them, and Boras will describe free agency as if it were Big Rock Candy Mountain. And he’ll be right.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
Thank God Napoli isn't around to hog up all of Mathis' at-bats anymore
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 21, 2011 6:46 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
mathis has a chisled face and looks great in a uniform.
im not sure what all you stat hounds are complaining about.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Conger is the Opening Day catcher.
"Two middle fingers, you don't want my anger. Better call the Rangers, But you gonna need the Angels." -Weezy F. Baby
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Jan 21, 2011 6:49 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I can hear the new tune.
This is the dawning of the age of Jeff Mathis, age of Jeff Mathis……
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
wtf happened to kyle drabek again?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
It pains me to rec this...
gotta laugh through the hurt though.
by Nathan Aderhold on Jan 21, 2011 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
My problem with this trade is the rationale that some are defending it with
Mainly the “they wouldn’t play anyway, so let’s get someone who WILL” people. It’s one of Soth’s worst ideas – playing Mathis every day. Mathis shouldn’t be playing everyday, we’d be much better off with Naps there. So under Soth, yes, the team may be better, but on paper, I don’t think it’s as clear.
Then, even though we can offset some of this money with the GMJ fail coming off the books, we still have a ton of players coming into arbitration years. Well, screw half of them, but we need Kendry and Weave, at least, since they aren’t coming cheap.
Actually.....
I’ll catch hell for this, and I probably deserve it, but in one trade Reagins DID address left field, power bat and leadoff hitter. Wells in left, good power threat and Abreu leadoff hitter. It’s an improvement, because Napoli wasn’t gonna get much playing time and Conger is ready, guys. Wells is a great player, he just costs too much.
Plus we get Kendry back, so he's like a big splash right there.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
if Wells bats behind Kendry...
do we maybe see a Hamilton effect with Vladdy behind him?
smAll splAsh is TR's new nickname.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
I know I like it
The original quote was huge splash
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
I'm not sure how this trade made bobby a leadoff hitter.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
that option would still be on the table with juan rivera in left field.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
Juan sucks balls in left.
but bobby could still leadoff.
Why the fuck was juan included in this trade? We could have gotten SOMETHING for him (relief pitching)… wells – napoli straight up seems MORE than fair.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
By what measurement is Wells considered a "great" player?
Not trying to troll here, just curious to the rationale.
"C'mon Joe, GET WET!" - Jon Miller
A career OPS+ of 108 doesn't give you goose bumps?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
Great players don't deliver negative defense and .708 OPS outside their home parks...
…like Wells did last year.
He batted .227 outside of the Dome in 2010.
I
by Turks Teeth on Jan 21, 2011 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Does this mean...
we won’t resign Kendry, Weaver, or Haren in a few seasons from now?
Tony, Arte, F.O… you’re a bunch of fuckheads
That's mostly like what this means, yes
Another deal that’ll hamstring us in the future when we actually need to sign good players
I got up to eat dinner with the wife and come back to find out NO cash is involved
WTF? This is beyond absurd.. . even as an opposing fan I have to say WTF… would you let this trade go down in a fantasy baseball setting where contracts where involved?
completely and totally confounded on this on… I feel legitimately bad for Angels fans..
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
"Uhmmm... Where are the boobs? AceJC
Feel better now? laxtonto
You were just lying in the weeds... waiting for your chance, weren’t you? ghostofErikThompson
This is like a sniper, waiting in a ghillie suit for the perfect time to strike. FistOfJamieBenn
This result was the most obvious thing in the history of the internet. Aquaman, Esq. " 1-11-11
No amount of cheap beer could get me drunk enough to stomach watching Mathis at and behind the plate
Or see the payroll hit the stratosphere with nothing to show for it.
I might as well reserve a season pass and go start watching the Padres; at least they’re going to finish last on the cheap.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
lol
http://www.halosheaven.com/2010/1/24/1268060/halos-slipping-down-or-not
“They also showed more than a passing interest in Cuban defector Aroldis Chapman.”
$30,000,000 deal. The reason the Angels are a dominating team, and Cincinnati is well, Cincinnati, is they are smart enough know a bad deal when they see one and have the self-control to know when to walk away from that bad deal.
From one of your authors (WiHaloFan) here last year. I LOVE IRONY
by Crashburn Alley on Jan 21, 2011 6:55 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Don't you hate it when you find out that Santa Claus ain't real?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
Link it! Link it!
He reopened the wound. Let him bleed.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Considering you were wrong on just about every point
by Crashburn Alley on Jan 21, 2011 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
hey what do cool guys in Philadelphia do on a saturday night?
oh, troll another team’s blog, who isn’t even a rival, let alone in the same league, to hit their fans when their down?
you seem like a really nice person who I’m sure has a lot of friends. really
p.s. go fuck yourself
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
sorry, friday night
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
Is Dee still hot?
Cuz I just watched the episode where she had a kid…
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2011 12:12 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, apparently you're still stinging...
…or else you wouldn’t be commenting in here now. You’ve been waiting for almost a year to be able to make some smug remark when the Angels do something stupid?
I kind of respected you before (at least your writing), now I just think you’re a bitch. Good job, bitch.
by WiHaloFan on Jan 22, 2011 7:52 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Of all the points you could have made there, you bring up Chapman?
A dude who pitched 13 innings last season?
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Wow...that point went so far over your head, I'm surprised you noticed it
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I knew I'd encounter a vagina tonite
eventually
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone else in favor of another repeal of the F-bomb rule?
Here’s my one for now: Why the FUCK did I renew my season seats for this crap?
put that brown bag over your head when you attend the games.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
I really want to hear
TR’s interview. He not only traded away a good catcher and a player that is similar to Wells, he got no money from Toronto as well.
"Vernon is a player we have admired for some time," Los Angeles general manager Tony Reagins said. "He is a tremendous person and the type of player that will impact our club immediately, both on offense and defense."
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
ew
Impact can be good or bad. Mathis impacts our club immediately too.
by TheKingfish on Jan 21, 2011 7:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
From the Angels website
In a stunner characteristic of the Angels, they sent catcher Mike Napoli and outfielder Juan Rivera to the Toronto Blue Jays in exchange for three-time All-Star outfielder Vernon Wells.
ARE THEY FUCKING KIDDING ME?
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
I meant to point out the language of their write up I hit enter too many times.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
A stunner characteristic of the Angels
They want to be know for this kind of horseshit?
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Yup, they did that
Couldn’t figure out where to put Naps with Conger coming up and Morales at 1st. Pretty strange.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jan 21, 2011 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
Angels paying Hunter, GMJ and Wells 52M this year
Our outfield (one isn’t even on the team) is more expensive than a lot of teams.
Get rid of Quinlan
Arte , sell this team back to disney.
Mark Cuban, save our souls.
somebody… help.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
yay we get 5 million as a pity gift
thanks toronto
"Don't turn the channel, ... no matter what the score is." -David Eckstein
by princeton11loveshalos on Jan 21, 2011 7:07 PM PST reply actions
http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/statuses/28649103340605440
"Don't turn the channel, ... no matter what the score is." -David Eckstein
by princeton11loveshalos on Jan 21, 2011 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
5 mil.....WOOOOOO
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
update: hearing now $5 million is going from #bluejays to #angels. covers a month and a half of wells $, but it’s something
That's two and a half Mathii.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
Oh shit, more than one Mathis is a gaggle of Mathii
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
No, a group of Mathises is like crows
Murder.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
There is no cash
More sources confirming no cash then there is cash
Jays AA was just on toronto sports channel, theres no cash involved
by bowling_kid25 on Jan 21, 2011 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
My favorite Unit Of Measurement.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:14 PM PST up reply actions
Braves fan here...
but I’ve always had a great respect for the Angels organization, and I catch quite a few of their games with me living in Arizona. Mike Scioscia is the man and I’d love to have him manage in Atlanta one day.
But what in the hell are the Angels doing? This is beyond stupid. I’m sorry.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
Don't be sorry
We’re sorry, both as fans for the team, and as a team.
by lightupthehalo29 on Jan 21, 2011 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
If you see a guy in an Angels hat and crying in Atlanta
It’s me.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
summary of the night
still a fantastic job by #jays anthopoulos to unload all but $5 mil of wells’ absurd pact. early frontrunner for exec of yr
jon heyman
"Don't turn the channel, ... no matter what the score is." -David Eckstein
by princeton11loveshalos on Jan 21, 2011 7:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
This is the part that hurts:
early frontrunner for exec of yr
it is clear that we are now a laughingstock of all baseball. Ballsy move by the Halos.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
You guys are so amazing!!!
Have you been so into this rut so deeply that you don’t see how bad this team needed this trade/ Do you really think there’s a major upside to these average baseball players? I mean seriously. You got a big bat that will match naps HRs, without his and Rivera’s strike outs and nubblers to short, PLUS a big doubles guy, with live feet, one of the hardest outs in his career. Wake up. I guess fans can be homers, and I love Naps because he was one of the best bats on THIS team, but this team sucks ass, put too much pressure on its pitchers and needs to be sold for scraps even if at a loss. Besides Torii, Bourjie, and TENTATIVELY Morales no one should be untouchable on that no-name pile of baseball poop. Wells will win us games. Rivera was always, always the last out in one run games, Naps was just before him often trying to end it with one swing….
Say what you want about him, but thats a Los Angeles Angel you’re talking about. I’m ready for more impact moves. Take your stats and GM money talk and shove it.. great move guys!!!
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:12 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Yep, this is an awesome trade if you decide to ignore stats and how much money Wells is owed.
Well done Tony!
by ~MMP~ on Jan 21, 2011 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I meant
the pain Naps puts us through to get 25 homers and that Rivera puts us through to get nothing is erased by one guy, an impact guy, who also hits doubles and is a hard out. Like a true Angel, he likes to move the bases…you will be pleased, very pleased. Now, lets erase some more human groundballs and give our pitchers some F’n baseball players!!!!
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
...
How is a career .329 OBP a hard out, exactly?
That’s below average, not to mention well below Napoli’s.
Wells’ career line is .280/.329/.475
Rivera’s career line is .280/.328/.461
Just because you perceive Wells to be a better player does not make it so.
by Nathan Aderhold on Jan 21, 2011 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
STATS
represent actual, historical outcomes. Feelings and emotions do not. The stats reveal the fact that Wells is not a great player. Outs are outs, regardless of whether they’re strikeouts, groundouts or flyouts. Wells makes outs more often than Mike Napoli. This is a fact.
but bigtizzle
WATCHES the games … he never takes a sip of beer he just watches like santa claus watches the little children
Yes!!
But the FACTs say Wells is better. The Big Tizz says Wells is better. Therefore…
Trust me any stat that tells you napoli is better than Wells is rubbish…Big Tizz watches, watches, sips, then repeats..
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
which facts?
OBP is rubbish? OPS is rubbish? OPS+ is rubbish? Walks are rubbish?
Seriously, what planet do you live on?
And FYI, the formula is not Napoli v. Wells. It’s Napoli + Rivera v. Wells + More Mathis.
Mathis was going to play anyway
Naps playing time was restricted to injury time. Absent a DH signing, this was Wells’ playing time for Rivera’s. $$ aside (and that sucks), I actually think this is upside.
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
I'm not a big whoop fan of this deal, but
I cannot take Wells’ stats as a factual representation of his current abilities, considering his career numbers include him playing 2007/2008/2009 while injured. That 2006 contract year looks suspicious. But those 2010 numbers look more promising.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Remember
Naps gone guarantees Mathis in the lineup for a while, unless King Cong goes apeshit in Spring Training and leaves Sosh’s hands tied.
Also, Wells may be better, but he costs way too damn much. 80~ million for 4 years? Really?
News flash Reagins got $5 mill
Well played Tony Well played
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
update: hearing now $5 million is going from #bluejays to #angels. covers a month and a half of wells $, but it’s something
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
I want to play poker with TR...
and I’m so bad, that I lose at “Go Fish” with my infant son.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree with the post
Vernon Wells on talent is not Juan Rivera. I assumed roids’ but last year disproved that. He’s an upgrade over Rivera.
Sam Miller
Pointed out we could have had him for free on a waiver claim. :(
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
EVERY exec in baseball knew that contract was an albatross
Andrew Friedman is spinning in his grave right now.
Not EVERY exec.
Not.
Every.
Exec.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
ALBATROSS!!
“Get him on a stick!”
Reagins: “Do you get wafers with him?”
“OF COURSE YOU DON’T GET ANY BLOODY WAFERS WITH HIM!! He’s an albatross, ain’t he? A bloody overpaid, bloody oft-injured albatross!”
Reagins: “I’ll take one, please!”
by Hoppity Hooper on Jan 22, 2011 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
That's what pisses me off the most
why the fuck do you give up two players with trade value for someone you can normally get for free?
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
If you want to laugh,
Check out the Onion News Network on IFC, on now.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
Honestly
who cares about the money? What are we gonna sign Pujols? Our team got better what is all the fuss about?
What about next year?
And the ones after that?
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
This is kind of true.
This team got slightly better.
It’s just a STUPID fucking trade.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
No, no, no, fucking no!
This team is NOT better with Wells at the expense of Rivera/Nipples. In no way is that true.
Not by WAR, not by any measure. We traded two cost controlled starters for an above average player with a superstar salary. No Napoli means even MORE Mathis which reduces our offensive output. Whatever ground we gain in LF w/ Wells vs. Rivera we give back, big time w/ Mathis/Conger. This is a loser of a trade all the way around.
The money. The players. Everything. This effin’ sucks ass and Reagins just punted 2011. No doubt about it. No way Wells out performs the sum of Rivera/Napoli in 2011 or going forward.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
Surely,
the emotions are on overdrive. Its great to get rid of those lousy average players and get a good, solid player. You’re another OC eckstein homer, im guessing? Sad to see Davanon go? Wish we got SRod bacl? Think Erstad still has some in the tank? Get over it. Now we can compete and not be stuck with players the OC wishes they can drink with.
Its a way better situation and good trade. 80m/4 years is better than, 5-7 years. Wait til you see how we’re outbidded for Kendry and Weave. Boy, you’re gonna love Wells. Watch.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
Are you for real?
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Toronto
overpaid for him. Calm down and brutally realize what we learned this offseason. It was a horrid contract in 2006. It’s a bad contract now. Teams with needs and commitment to winning sometimes take on bad deals…Relax and think about it. Your team just got better.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
yes, Toronto gave him that contract.
But we’re paying the majority of the last 4 years of that backloaded mother.
The team may have gotten marginally better. But is that worth taking on another albatross of a contract? Reagins and Arte were just talking a few weeks ago how Crawford wasn’t worth the 20 mil, or Beltre wasn’t worth the years, then they pay MORE than that on a worse player.
Yes, teams with needs and commitment sometimes take on bad deals. That’s Gary Matthews Junior. Or Scott Kazmir. Or Fernando Rodney. It doesn’t mean we should tack on enough to our payroll to make signing our other marquee stars even harder.
Im not that far away from you on this...
i"ve been busting up this FO all offseason. I still don’t like some things. We are banking on Morales and Howie on one side of the infield and are braced for more mediocre play on the other side. It’s fair to pay cost controlled slalries there when the potential for upside is there. Aybar is better not having to think like a leadoff guy. He can be a doubles guy and Callaspo is a professional baseball hitter, he proved that. Now, the speed of the market is sick. If Wells bats .300 and knocks out 30, which I predict he will, you made up for FA mistakes and dumped some scrubs. Not because they aren’t good, because they aren’t, but because you changed the part of your team where average guys took up spots they didn’t really compete for and kept you from bringing people up and bringing in new ones. Crawford was made for this team and we missed it bad. Beltre was what we needed at third, but I’m sure the FO thought like most everyone else (except me) that Tex wouldnt move Young for him, so we lost him. 4 years, 80 million is what a player like that costs. Todays bad contracts are becoming tomorrows norm. Wait til you see the contracts Weav and Morales want and WILL GET. You’ll be thankful for Wells. I promise you that.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
Weave and Kendry are better players than Wells.
They will not cost us two acceptable players in return. They are well-liked by the fans, and good teammates. I would be perfectly fine with paying them expensive contracts.
You’re predicting Wells bats .300 with 30 homers? He’s hit .300 in a full season three times -2003, 06, and 08. He’s also hit 30 homers thrice – 2003, 06, and 2010, with 28 in 05. His resurgence last year was in part due to an insane home/road split.
It’s possible that he can hit .300 and hit 30 homers, just unlikely, with moving from Rogers Centre to Angel Stadium. He won’t like that marine layer.
I think Wells is a decent player. But was he really worth Naps or Rivera? Even if they were expendable and tradebait anyway, why trade them for Wells, and not get someone of more value? Just because today’s bad contract won’t be as bad in the future doesn’t mean that we can afford to overpay anyway.
by TheKingfish on Jan 21, 2011 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I would be perfectly fine with paying them expensive contracts.
Give each of them 8yr/200M then … coz by the time they are FA’s they are going to be getting north of $150M each. Boras will spite the Angels any way he can in return for the loss of face he endured in getting Jered signed in the first place.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
Weaver
is a future Hall of Fame pitcher. Kendry has amazing potential. I don’t doubt that. I just watch a lot of baseball as Im sure you do, and I know if I erase my love of Naps as a fan, i just don’t feel bad to see him go. I suddenly remember all the times he and Rivera let us down. He’s gone and Im ok with it…like I said I’m not that far off from you. I think both of those players are gone tho….if arte has anything to say (pay) about it.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
Although Boras will do all he can to extort people for Weave and Kendry
it still doesn’t mean that Wells is a good pickup. I agree, it’ll be hard as hell to sign Weave and Kendry, but I’d rather blow money on them and not Wells.
Yes, emotions are a large part of my response to this trade, but it still doesn’t make sense in baseball terms. We just traded two fine players for someone who costs twice as much and doesn’t give as much value in return. I feel bad seeing Naps go because that means Mathis will see more playing time, which, quite frankly, I can see happening. Sosh has shown time and time again he has no problem with trotting out the worst player in baseball, all while praising his “premiumness”.
It’s really what they could’ve done compared against what they actually did. This offseason was a mess, and will have repercussions for years.
And DR, although that’s still exorbitantly expensive, I’d rather give those two that than Wells 86mil. Screw Boras though.
Fair enough.
If they paid up earlier with maybe one of those FA guys, even to stroke Boras it could have been Beltre, then signed a couple rigged vets to go with our lineup. Im with that. Given where we are now, something tells me he and Torii will do some special things in that lineup with Kendry and Howie…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
I refuse to be lured into your trap.
I’ve seen To Catch a Predator enough times to know what happens next.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
You keep saying that we got "better" with this...
show me how.
How does subtracting Napoli’s offense and adding more Mathis make us better?
Does Wells make up for that? And if so, how?
I am willing to listen, but you need to show HOW they are better now.
Here’s a hint…
You can’t prove it – they aren’t better now. Just not true.
Wells (2006-2010) put up 13.3 oWAR
Napoli (2006-2010) put up 13.0 oWAR
Rivera (2006-2010) put up 4.5 oWAR
Defensive WAR was a wash….
So, how can this be even when you consider that Wells will make 2x what Napoli/Rivera will make in 2011?
The onus is on you buddy – tell me how I am wrong and you are son right? And just saying it louder doesn’t make it so.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
by jimmuscomp on Jan 21, 2011 8:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Please don't mention Napoli and Rivera again...
Really. repeat the names you’re saying and it’ll come to you…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
Must say your response assumes Nap plays.
If Nap is catching instead of Mathis, I get the point. Truth is though that doesn’t often happen. So it isn’t ‘adding more Mathis’ as that was already the norm.
Naps was part time DH (so his WAR would go down as Morales returns cutting into his 1B time). Not happy we weren’t playing Naps, but didn’t look to be happening.
This is basically Rivera for Wells (in terms of playing time) with Naps thrown in to make the deal (assuming Naps gets little time). We still have to replace Naps as DH (with either internal players moving around, Abreu, or bring in someone like Podsednik (to lead off) or Vlad).
That is how I see it, and (setting the money aside anyhow) Wells at least better than Rivera has been.
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
Multiplayer Football: http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=16986650
by matthiasstephan on Jan 22, 2011 5:05 AM PST up reply actions
I get that.
, historically, Napoli has always gotten 250-300 AB’s even with Matgis on the roster.
He’d have played about 1/2 time regardless of position – Scioscia has always played him at least that often.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
He has done, but ....
seems like Mathis (for whatever reason) was getting more starts at C and with Conger coming up, I see less and less room for Naps there already. He made up for some at 1B with Morales out (who is our backup there now, I have no idea? Q is gone too. Hmmm), but I don’t hope that happens again. Abreu really needs to be the DH so we can regain some speed in the OF, so I don’t (didn’t) see much room for Naps anyway.
Now we can have Wells, Bourjos and Hunter, with Abreu DHing and Willits backing up. Not too bad, I would say, and an improvement over Hunter, Abreu, Rivera and Matsui.
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
Multiplayer Football: http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=16986650
by matthiasstephan on Jan 23, 2011 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
Napoli played less catcher last year only because of Morales' injury.
He would have played about 55% of the games a catcher as he has in he past. It silly to assume otherwis. That is a usage pattern confirmed over 5 year in the bigs.
Also, no sure that Wells/Bourjos is Bette offensively than Rivera/Matsui.
Defensively, no doubt. But offensively? No so sure.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
even if they are a wash offensively, which is possible but not probable.
the defensive improvement is large enough where it is still a massive improvement.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
You continuously
assert that the team is now better, but cannot identify any factual basis for your theory. Your argument is void without supporting evidence.
he is bigtizzle
he doesn’t neeed evidence… didn’t you notice BIG in his name … that means he is beyond evidence, he is a BIG MAN and BIGGER TIZZLE.
Bigti bigti bigti can't you see, sometimes your posts just mystify me.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Give me any evidence
that we are better with Wells.
And BTW, you obviously haven’t been here very long if you are calling me an Erstad apologist. Go learn something about the folks that have frequented this board for the last five years before spouting off about things you know nothing about.
Wells is a fine player to have on your team, but not for $20 million per season and NOT at the expense of two decent (or better) players.
I’m not against Wells per se, it’s that we gave up two players that could have helped in the short term for the right to pay Wells his entire contract. That is the issue here. That to take on that kind of cash we should have not given up good players. Period.
This isn’t that hard to understand, I don’t think.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
by jimmuscomp on Jan 21, 2011 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't matter
those are two players that probably wont be starting in the MLB now that theyre out of our daycare….Wells is just better.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
We'll call him Bubba's Bait and Tackle.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
You are just trying to get our goat right?
I mean, you aren’t being serious are you?
Since 2007 Napoli has been a top 6 offensive catcher in all of baseball (using wOBA). His glove sucks but so do the gloves of the guys above him (Martinez, Posada, etc). He is incredibly valuable given his bat and his position.
Wells is not good. You keep him in CF and you get horrid defense. You move him to LF and you get horrid offense. You basically have to assume that Wells will be healthy and that he will hit in a tough park (and tough AL West division with Seattle and Oakland).
Man I wish people like you played in my fantasy baseball leagues. Sucker born every day. You see a name like Vernon Wells, you see Gold Gloves, and you buy into the hype. Rivera had every chance to be just as good as Wells in 2011. But he would do so at 25% of the cost AND NO YEARS beyond 2011.
Anyway, Wells is a good guy. No question about it. The Angels team will have a lot of high character guys. Wells and Hunter will be buddy buddy I’m sure. Beyond that this is team with a payroll approaching $150m that will be lucky to win 85 games.
85?
Actually, that sound almost exactly right. 4 games back in the division, 6 in wild card.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
comparng the pitching he faced in the AL East to the AL West is not the best argument.
regardless of park size. and how exactly do you get to the conclusion of his offense being suddenly “horrendous in LF”?
I hate that we got rid of Napoli too. but that argument is very flawed.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
HAHAHAHAHA Jim Scully liking Erstad ....
you are obviously a newcomer.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
Ach...Bor-ass...
The Halo org is probably ready to lett them go with no ability to work with Scott Boras to this point. Predicting a fold on that one, dammit all.
At this point, yea we will fold
I agree. Just wish we hadn’t done this so we could’ve at least TRIED to re-sign them. Sucks so bad
Bad contracts
We’re a big market team with a lot of bad contracts coming off the book. We don’t sign any free agents anyway, Napoli as a DH was very blah, and Rivera sucked. If we get two 28+ hr seasons out of Wells it was a fine trade. I could see him loving So Cal and succeeding.
by GrandyOlePal on Jan 21, 2011 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
great we just added another bad contract. YEAH!
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
WTF
#BlueJays GM Anthopoulos confirms #Angels picking up all $86 million on Wells contract.
It was an epic fail with the reports that they were going to pick up around $20M of the deal. Even then, every single MLB-oriented board can’t believe how bad of a trade this was and how AA ever got this to happen.
So are the Angels indeed absorbing ALL of the contract?
If so, at least now it’s a historic fail. This will forever be Reagins legacy, regardless of what happened behind the scenes.
The drama this coming season will definitely be better than the play on the field.
WE asked about Wells?
That’s the shocker to me.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
funny that this does actually qualify as ninja
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
What makes this so great...
…is not only is he now the highest paid player in Angels history (hey, he earns it and deserves this lofty designation)…but the Angels got this bargain knowing he sucks hitting in Anaheim and he averaged 16-17 homeruns in the 3 years before last year.
I predict Mathis will outperform him.
You heard it here first…
yeehaw!!!!
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jan 21, 2011 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
We get him for 4 years...
Does this mean he’s going to the HOF as an Angel?
by Dave Spiwak on Jan 21, 2011 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
that.was.awesome.com
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
I feel so just sad right now.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
This is gonna be awesome, believe me
Just you guys wait as VW is going to lead us right into 2nd place in the West
by Raaddad on Jan 21, 2011 7:24 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Toyota's are more reliable than VW's...
oops, am I being a jerk again?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah...but...
…what about after the preseason standings?
Dude is going to light up the preseason, bro
He and Scotty Pods will be nice this year in Halo red
I don’t care what it costs
Except...
one of those three is an unjustified prediction. Wait til the season, you’ll be all over vernon wells. That 108 will rock the stadium…you’ll see.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, I think (and pray) that you are right on all of the above
Protection for Kendry will be nice (Naps wouldn’t have played a whole hell of a lot anyway)
#BlueJays GM Anthopoulos on Wells: “I don’t think I ever saw him not run a ball out to first base”
Totally worth $86 million over 4 years
minus
the the other two salaries and cash. Yep its worth it.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
You keep saying cash.
Please stop saying cash.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
NO! THERE IS NO CASH!
http://twitter.com/BillShaikin
#BlueJays GM Anthopoulos confirms #Angels picking up all $86 million on Wells contract.
26 minutes ago via web
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
ok…some sources say there is, some say there isn’t. why do we care? It was the worst contract ever FOUR YEARS AGO. Its an average contract for a guy like that now…
PS-Cash, cash, cash, cash, cash….
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
The GM is some source?
It’s barely possible to believe that any team would have signed this guy for 4/$86 were he a free agent.
Given Werth, I guess, anything could happen, but that contract would be, it’s true, very slightly less risible.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
that's saying something, too
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jan 21, 2011 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
yes, but what? :P
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
considering the Hall of Retards we've had around here...
it can’t be good.
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Jan 21, 2011 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
Why/
Cuz I dont engage in group-think? I’m okay being below the intellectual realm of “STFU”, “dipshit”, etc, but the fact of the matter is we got a guy whose been waiting for a change of scenery and opportunity to have another impact year. he’s due and he’s on my team. If being happy makers me “stupider” then I’ll take that as a compliment..
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Then you are the "happiest" person this site has ever seen.
JK, you cool man.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
No, because you
are making claims without the courtesy of actually trying to prove your point.
You need to be able to convince folks of your ideas and if you choose to not do that, don’t be surprised when people call you out for your lack of facts.
Groupthink is one thing. Truisms are another.
RIP Nick...
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
They got the good part of the contract check this out
Them 08:$0.5M, 09:$1.5M, 10:$12.5M,
US 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
No Vaseline.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
OUCH!
That’s brutal.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
I cried a little when I read that
We are paying him more in this year of the contract than Toronto paid him in 3.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
And with a thorny broomstick.
AA, you are the man.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
We are all going to need to attend AA after this one...
AA = Alcoholics Anonymous.
“Tony, you speak first.”
“My name is Tony Reagins and I’m a bad-contract-a-holic.”
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
Wow...
Holy sh!t, dude.
Even as a fan of a competing team, I’m honestly sorry…
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 22, 2011 7:16 PM PST up reply actions
The no cash thing is the worst part. No question that Vernon Wells has value. Also no question that it’s not $ 20+MM per year.
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 23, 2011 1:39 AM PST up reply actions
I am obviously not trying hard enough!
Are you trying hard, too?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
Sounds good
#BlueJays GM Anthopoulos on Wells: "I don’t think I ever saw him not run a ball out to first base"
This is the type of hustle and grit I’m building my kid’s Little League team around. Who is this “Wells” youngster? — I hope he hasn’t turned 12 yet.
Here's a thought
its about the years not the money
Wells is locked up for 4 years, Crawford is signed for 7 years both are making 20 million a year.
Both are over paid.
I play music for your entertainment
Crawford is better.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Chicks dig the long ball, so we get rid of Naps
Sounds like there will be less chicks getting laid in the OC
Crawford has more letters in his name.
Worth much more in Scrabble.
You sunk my battleship.
Yahtzee!
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
and your point is
in the seasons Wells has not been injured he has provided a lot more power than Crawford. If I remember correctly that’s what everyone here was pining for last week
I play music for your entertainment
no one
wanted Wells and his ridiculous contract. I would’ve done something like Naps for Wells and Blue Jays pay at least 10-20 million of contract.
Hopefully they do
Would rather have Naps and Conger split starts.
But, Sosh’s irrational mancrush on Mathis still might win out. Eh, can’t really tell until the season starts
that's right.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
Mathis
may not even make it out of Spring. He and Kaz have been told straight up. Who knows whats up their sleeve…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
Mathis was told he might not make it out of ST?
That’s not what his shiny new deal suggests. Where did you hear this exactly?
The conference call, what you weren't on it?
For shame.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Exactly
If Mathis weren’t guaranteed a spot, they would have non-tendered him and then brought him back as an NRI and if he made the team, great (at a veteran’s minimum). Instead, early in the offseason, they guaranteed him a raise. No way they do that if they do not intend to keep him around while paying him.
Mathis got a 1.7 million dollar contract
If he was told straight up that he might not make it out of spring, the the FO is full of even bigger idiots than they seem like now.
Thats chickenshit
about what you give a guy when youre so desperate that you need him. As they say where I come from, “That aint no paypa”…
they might not say that about 1.7m but you get y point. Appier got cut with over 15 million guaranteed!
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
Still, where does it say that Mathis might not make it out of ST?
Appier got cut, yeah, but did Sosh or the FO have such a mancrush on Captain CERA?
SOURCE?
have been told straight up
That would be very interesting, but sure sounds like hearsay to me.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
Because I don't know how to figure it out
What would have wells WAR rating as a left fielder?
I play music for your entertainment
THIS is what kills it for me...
We fell in love with Eckstein so they filled the squad with those bastards!
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
But anyone who is "decent"
is getting a ridiculous contract right now
by Raaddad on Jan 21, 2011 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
and hes signed for four years. I won’t start anything by talking about Morales and Weaver but trust me when I say that decision has already been made…everyone would cry of they knew the projected contracts for those guys. You’ll love Wells, trust me.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
The point is
Wells hasn’t been healthy for an entire season since 2006. He’s now 32 years old, and you believe he will have FEWER injuries?
Last year, APPARENTLY healthy for the first time since ’06, he got off to a blazing start and made his third All-Star team, but hit just .251/.300/.449 in the middle four months of the season and .227/.301/.407 on the road in a season in which the ball was flying out of the Toronto home field. If you really need more data to wreck your day, here you go: in 173 plate appearances at Angel Stadium, Wells career stat line is an impressive .226/.267/.340.
Quentin flew out to center
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget the future Albatross King of the World..
Jayson Werth.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
The Same Years
Wells and Crawford are both signed through age 35. The difference is, Boston is getting years 29-31 as well.
KFI advertisements...
Ok, I listen to KFI all the time. I’m a talk radio junky… Don’t judge.
This is the first year I suddenly heard the Angels advertise ticket plans on KFI!
At first I thought this is really cool, but then I thought…why?
The positive side of me (it’s barely holding on) said "Hey, why not advertise ticket pax on a major radio presence…much MUCH greater reach and signal than 830.
But the cynical side of me said Boston, Cards, etc. never need to advertise (or barely). The product does that on it’s own.
After last season, and the current offseason (before today), I’m guessing they see ticket sales might be really lagging so the new push to other areas of listeners.
After this trade, they might need to offer tix free with each box of Girl Scout cookies and car washes at Pedro’s Almost-All Hand Car Wash.
My buddy just told me about that KFI ad today.
Also, he said his parents are not renewing their season tickets— direct result of the past 2 off seasons.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
don't kid yourself
the MFY advertise their ticket packages all the time b’c their season tix are waaaaay more spensive…although much of it is on the MFYES network
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Alex Anthopoulos, Executive of the Year, 2011.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Apparently not.
But still, losing that albatross of a contract for two useful players is a coup.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Can we trade for him?
I got a pseudo-GM and an CERA awesome Catcher that need a new home
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
Throw in some Del Taco coupons and we have a deal.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
sosh: "we are definitely a better club as of today than we were last year."
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
True.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
Mathis
will only play more games if he performs. Its a Conger world now…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Performs?
What is the level of performance required to extend his playing time? Batting 201?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
That would be overperforming.
And worth another raise.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
Im not a Mathis guy...
by any stretch. He makes Napoli seem like Big Papi, but Napoli is no Big Papi..
go drink somewhere else big poopi…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
bigtizzle how stupid are you
Mathis was the worst player in baseball last season and they kept running him out there.
But just barely.
And now probably hamstrung for the years we need to sign Morales, Weaver, etc.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Let's Recap
Pitching: definitely better with Takahashi and Downs.
Offense: + Wells, +More Mathis, -Napoli, – Matsui, -Rivera.
Offense = worse.
Net difference: same or worse than last year
not to mention to all the Fuentes haters
Rodney sucks luminously more
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
This was my message to all the KRod haters. And then we landed Fuentes.
A whole bunch of “rawr” bullshit later, it still didn’t make me feel any better for having said it.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
more Mathis!
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
Buck Fluebird Banter!
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
I can't wait to hear him rail on this Monday...
Definitely recording his time slot ;)
As Hacksaw would say...So Cal Blockbuster trade...Reaction!!!
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
Fuck. Are we becoming the fucking Grizzlies of fucking Memphis?
See: ( Wallave, Chris )
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
Gasol, Paul also says "Hello!"
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
And that settles the cash thing.
http://twitter.com/BillShaikin/status/28658460392427522
#Angels GM Reagins confirms #BlueJays sent no money in Wells trade
Did they send a pistol with one round in the chamber?
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 21, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Screw this
I’m buying the Angels and I’ll make things right
I'd like to offer my services as GM.
If you have someone else in mind, I can be the new “Salty Nuts” guy.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
I want to work with that Usher dude that has pics of him flipping people off
The product will suck so I might as well smoke some weed and talk shit with him all day.
At this point
Even the salty nuts guy could prove to be a better GM, he’s already selling peanuts for like 10 bucks
A 3-4-5 Of Hunter/Morales/Wells does sound pretty nice, though.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 21, 2011 7:46 PM PST reply actions
Right on brother.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Apparently close to 60% agree with you on this poll
The big vocal minority launching the most complaints here
Some of them are definitely Canadians...not that I mind
They are pretty excited over there
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 21, 2011 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, now; vladtheimpaler will get mad at you for that comment!!!!
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
pretty much any other teams fans
"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."
by boyonthedock on Jan 22, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Does it?
Really?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying it doesn't sound nice
It just sucks that we got fleeced so badly. it’s no fun being on this end of a joke
It sounds nice if we're not getting plunger raped by an $86 million contract
How much is going to be left in the piggy bank when it’s time to re-sign Kendry & Weav?
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
It actually does.
but it hurts to be the laughingstock of baseball.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
I feel the same way.
i understand the anger about the offseason as a whole. but if the crawford and beltre ordeal hadn’t happened, would we be that upset about this? i’ve always been a vernon wells fan though, so i am mildly biased.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
I'm about to condemn the entire FO here...
but they can save themselves if we get something in the neighborhood of 40 million dollars coming back.
40 Million bucks and this is a decent deal. Napoli had no defensive position and never was going to play every day here. Rivera was a slacker with atrocious defense and inconsistent production.
I knew I'd be discovered eventually
But hey, that Vernon Wells sure is a nice player and someone we’ve admired for some time. I know you’re all dying to sign up for season tickets after this big splash!
Who will sniff the bats? Who will frost the tips?
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
So this is as good as it gets this offseason.
Arte, Tony, YOU HAVE SOME SPAININ" TO DO!!!!
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
SPLAININ'
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Jan 21, 2011 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
no room
oh please god no. Wells and Hunter both play a crappy CF. GOD NO
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Where is Willits going to fit in?
;)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
I like how this news came on a friday
so appropriate.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
"We usually let people go on Fridays to avoid any incidents."
office space quote from the Bobs.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
So has anyone determined yet...
…does this even count as a splash…or is this one of those weird water black holes that sucks in everything, never to be seen again.
Is TR the Bermuda Triangle of the MLB?
He takes over as a GM of a team and the team slowly disappears? Players, identity, fans…
by RedFog on Jan 21, 2011 7:50 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
FUCK YOU REAGINS!
PLEASE SOMEBODY FIRE HIS ASS NOW.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Jan 21, 2011 7:50 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Mathis and Wilson are going to start the season as our catching duo, with Conger "coming"
according to Scioscia
B-b-b-but, Mathis might not even make it out of spring?
King Cong. Start destroying crap down in the minors.
Shut your mouth...! :P
If Mathis isn’t leading spring training, TR will trade any talent ahead of him.
Don’t wish such harm on what little value remains.
Papa Sosh also says he can't imagine a better OF than Bourjos in CF, Wells in LF, and Torri in RF.
He won’t commit to that though.
per Shaikin tweet.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
...really?
How about Crawford/Bourjos/Torii
Yes, I know I’m beating a dead horse with Crawford, but no way in hell is Sosh’s imagination that weak
Crawford/Bourjos/Ichiro
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
Sosh is such a dumbshit.
Arte is a dumbshit.
Reagins is a dumbshit.
This organization has made it a priority to get stupider and stupider, and Im a dumbshit for letting it ruin my friday.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
The worst part of all this is that I need a new jersey now.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
I have an idea! Get a Vernon Wells jersey!
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
STFU
:}
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
In terms of longevity
a Mathis jersey may be your best bet as long as the Soth is running the show
by Raaddad on Jan 21, 2011 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yep
pretty good evidence that no one is going to take him off our hands any time soon
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Wise investment!
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
We are the Mets of the AL now
The transformation is complete.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 21, 2011 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, we could trade Wells for Carlos Beltran and Ollie Perez.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Just grabbed my rosary
And have started praying for this. Might as well pray for Evan Longoria for Juan Segura and Roy Halladay for Scott Kazmir.
Go Huskers! Go Halos! Tuck Fexas!
There's a Japanese market here in LA selling some super cheap Matsui jerseys if you're interested
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
If you're serious, the place is called Mitsuwa Market Place in Mar Vista
I can’t remember the price but they were on clearance when I was there a few weeks ago
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
Bon Jovi is from New Jersey.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
To clarify...
Carl Crawford was NOT worth $20MM/year. Vernon Wells is worth $21-23MM/year.
Makes a lot of sense if you are the kind of guy that asked the UGLIEST girl in school to the prom.
As an Angels fan, it pains me to be negative towards the team I love to watch. But this is &@*$-ing stupid!!!!
Maybe ‘Angels’ translates into ‘Mets’ in some language I am unfamiliar with.
Go Huskers! Go Halos! Tuck Fexas!
$86M versus $160M
Nice to look at it yearly, but I think they talked themselves into this one because it’s “only” four years.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
yes!
only we had to give up 2 players for Wells. Who is significantly worse than Crawford.
Less years though!
Win!
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
LAWL
#Angels GM Reagins on Wells: “The number of years was attractive to us.” Contract expires at age 35; “that’s attractive to us.”
Does he think before he speaks?
I know, there is strong debate on whether he has the ability to critically think at all.
I think it's safe to say that TR got taken to the woodshed on the Crawford deal
it’s embarrassing how amateurish he looks
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
What me worry?
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Why i this Bozo our GM
I can’t believe we are on our way to being the Angels of the 80’s an 90’s! We had a great run, but the Vernon Wells trade will cripple the Angels for years to come.
No Morales in 2012
No Weaver
No Pujols (but that was a given)
Please oh Please…. do not let Trout = Wood
Light up the Freakin Halo!
Why no Morales in 2012?
He’s arbitration cost-controlled through 2013.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
A Lot
of people said that the Crawford deal was too long, that he’d decline, etc., etc. I didn’t disagree. In fact, I agree. But to then turn around and take on Wells for the same years? I just don’t get it. I’m curious whether there is anybody who both (a) glad that we didn’t sign Crawford and (b) pleased with this trade.
Same years minus three of the best that crawford will have the first three.
Reagins is gambling Wells peaks ages 33-34-35. Jess help us.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
So if you took the UGLIEST girl in school to the prom
It’s OK because it’s just one night?
Go Huskers! Go Halos! Tuck Fexas!
Hey don't knock women who aren't very attractive
Think how lonely guys like DOV would be without them
Not trying to knock on unattractive girls, just saying that personality is better than looks
My girlfriend probably isn’t the hottest chick in school, but she has a great personality and is fun to be around. :P
So is ugliness.
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:09 PM PST up reply actions
There's a reason bars close at 2AM & not when there's bright sunlight outside
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Here's what I've found
sooner or later we’re all old and ugly…so personality counts
or you can do what I did and marry someone 24 years younger. That way, no matter how old and ugly i get, she’s waaaay behind
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
You are so dead if your gf finds this post.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
She isn't that into sports. Tried getting her more into it, hasn't worked
if she has to, she likes the Angels, but got bummed when Cabrera was traded a few years back.
Besides, she’s one of those “cute but low self-image” people.
Lucky you?
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
Today I wish I wasn't a Mormon
because I’m afraid only some serious drugs and alcohol can make me forget this day ever happened.
Missing Garret "Groundout" Anderson
Have a caffeinated soda instead.
;)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
Nah. Go eat at Doyer stadium.
The food poisoning and associated fever usually simulates 2-3 tabs of acid.
You’ll forget about it for a good few days or even a week.
But you’ll have 4 more years to remember.
tell me about your magic underpants please
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
Problem is
You can’t stay inebriated forever.
I’m certain of this.
"Mike Scioscia?! Didn't you get radiation poisoning?"
"I sure did. And it gave me super managing powers!"
by Zoe Necrosis on Jan 21, 2011 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wait...
But you work for Coca-Cola?
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
AAARRRGGG
Pepsi, dude. and contrary to popular belief, there’s no problem with imbibing the brown gold (or mountain dew for that matter)
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Watch out for those hot beverages, though.
I’ve never understood that part of the WoW. How did hot chocolate and apple cider become OK?
When the Mariners traded Silva for Bradley
The Mariners agreed to take on Bradley’s salary obligations ($9 million for 2010, $12 million for 2011) AND the Mariners agreed to pay the Cubs $3.5 million in 2010 and $5.5 million in 2011 to help cover Silva’s salary. source
It makes NO SENSE that the Angels couldn’t negotiate a similar arrangement where the Jays would pay the Angels $4 million a year in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. Effectively this would make the Wells contract a 4-year deal for $66 million (same as what Jason Bay received from the Mets last year).
by XYZ123 on Jan 21, 2011 8:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
It's easier to understand this...
…if you don’t try to make a rational comparison to other trades, apply logic, or use reason. Get past that and this whole thing can start making sense.
by Dave Spiwak on Jan 21, 2011 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We still need one of those?
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Aybar probably.
Sosh will just go with what he thinks should work.
See- mathis, starting 2011.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
Scott Podsednik?
Peter Bourjos?
Can’t fast, scrappy, white guys be willed into success as leadoff hitters (the way Mathis has been willed into success behind the plate)? Is Reggie Willits still on this team?
Just give this front office a few more weeks to put something even more brilliant together. There’s nothing they’re not capable of.
I was trying to stay out of this until all details were released...
…hoping, praying for salary relief coming with the deal, or a substantial prospect.
…It’s not coming. I have no problem supporting a poor Angels team. I have a problem supporting a poor Angels team when they suck because they’re stupid.
1) Wells finally hit last year again. And guess what, like the rest of the Jays, it was a product of homefield. Not sure what they did over there, but Wells away from Toronto? .227 BA. And it’s not just the batting average. He sucked away from home overall.
2) We gave away a better hitter in Napoli to gain a worse hitter. And $86 million dollars.
3) Wells is now the highest paid player in Angels history. Really.
This front office is so dumb it’s at the point of being intolerable. I was giving Scioscia, and Reagins, and Arte all the slack in the world, waiting for them to do something. And this is what they give us. The team will be worse next year than in 2010 on offense, and cost substantially more.
FUCK.
Reagins, please sign Beltre.
by 101halo on Jan 21, 2011 8:22 PM PST reply actions 10 recs
Is he 80 million dollars better?
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
Is he better than Naps AND Weaver AND Morales, bro?
Because that Wells contract is gonna cost the Halos the salary headroom to retain Weav and Kendry. And in 2014, when $20 million OF’ers are a dime a dozen, how many of those dime-a-dozen $20 mill OF’s will be 35 and hanging on to a platoon LF/DH spot?
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
by Stirrups on Jan 21, 2011 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Well's OPS on the road in his "comeback year"
was .702. Napoli had his worst OPS of his career at .784.
Next argument please.
Reagins, please sign Beltre.
Highest paid how?
Torii’s contract was bigger than the amount we assume in this deal. Do you mean per year?
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 21, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
Wells will be the 2nd highest paid player next year
behind only Alex Rodriguez. I’m pretty sure that his numbers don’t warrant that kind of scratch.
Fuck
Vote Napoli and Hunter for the 2012 election
by M.Napoli For President in 2012 on Jan 21, 2011 8:23 PM PST via mobile reply actions
A little late to the party
But right on with the sentiment.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
Ive been reading just not posting
Vote Napoli and Hunter for the 2012 election
by M.Napoli For President in 2012 on Jan 21, 2011 8:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Seasons off to a shitty start already
Vote Napoli and Hunter for the 2012 election
by M.Napoli For President in 2012 on Jan 21, 2011 8:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's clear the 2010 season never ended.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Idiocy abounds in Angels Land tonight.
No 2 ways about it.
"To Halowood - Avoid the Clap." - Jimmy Dugan
Over at Bluebird
They’re stoked as all getup.
Good night.
"Mike Scioscia?! Didn't you get radiation poisoning?"
"I sure did. And it gave me super managing powers!"
I'd be happy if I was one of their fans too...
They got the great end of this deal.
I survived the 2010 season.
In 2011
The Angels will have contract commitments totaling over $50,000,000 for just 4 players: Wells, Kazmir, GMJ, and Mathis. We will be lucky if the four combine to produce a WAR above 0.
I call dibs on that comment as my new sig.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
This falls on Arte, correct?
Holy christ our owner is a dipshit.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
I, uh, say that again, please.
The words make sense individually, but when you put them together like that, well, it’s kind of pissing me off, I think.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
Repeat alert:
Scioscia has his fingerprints all over this. He’s always seemed to downplay Napoli’s strengths, almost as if he were envious of Nap’s abilities. In his last spite-filled act, he sees to it that Nap is traded to the baseball equivalent of Siberia.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Wow, class-act championship manager earns you absolutely NO credibility. Maybe the manager thinks the catcher is an extension of the manager, leads the defense, calls the right pitches, blocks the plate, anticpates steals/hitnrun/ etc…hes jealous of Naps amazing abilities!!!!! Please repeat it every few hours to alleviate the seriousness…
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
trolls.
like yourself.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Especially when you arrive at a high-emotion time like this...
If the A’s just won the division, that’d be the day I sign up at your site to CONGRATULATE YOU.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
...high-emotion time?
You didn’t just lose a playoff series. It’s January and your team made a bad trade.
Not, y’know, a wonderful day to be an Angels fan, surely, but saying “I don’t know why so many (presumably) Angels fans are thinking this is a good trade” is hardly trolling.
Yeah, it is high emotion...
we have had the worst offseason out of any team and now traded for one of the worst contracts in baseball history; taking on the worst portion of it.
Not many Angel fans are liking this trade, imo. I think that the anti-HH brigade is quite strong and come here to vote in our polls.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget...
that the other 4 options are all the same, just differing degrees of hilarity. So they’re sharing the vote.
Reagins, please sign Beltre.
I don't really care if people like other teams.
He isn’t being a total prick about it, so why bother being douches.
and soulless.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
Sure hope you are right.
sure is wild how you account for 60% of the votes, singelhandedly.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
singlehandedly...
I can haz spelling, tori spelling
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
I only voted once…
but with passion!
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
I'm marking this thread and time down for future reference.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
and return as Halowood
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
Nope
I’ll be right and we’ll all be happy we neutralized the angers lineup with a real hitter…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
Are they from Angers, France?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
Someday we'll all look back on this trade.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:37 PM PST reply actions
Yep.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
cupie calls me
and I bashed my iPhone into the concrete and wiHalo and the crew had to take it from there.
just a bad day
at least this pretty much blocks trout for several more years.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
what does this mean for bourjos in CF?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
I hope it means we let Abreu walk
Keep Bourjos in CF, Vernon in LF and bring Trout up to RF? I don’t know what that means for Torii. I don’t know about any of this. This trade really screwed the pooch.
Naw, he's part of the trade package Reagins is assembling for Barry Zito
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
Still glad to see Bill Stoneman go?
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
The only difference between Stoneman and Reagins is
Stoneman signed bad contracts and Reagins trades for them.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
stoneman has a ring.
reagins has a degree from a community college.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
and Stoneman actually played the game & wasn't some fucking coffee boy intern
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
even threw a couple of no-no's
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
and signed a few do-do's
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll take
Stoneman. At least with him all we lose is money, but with Reagins, we lose valuable players. I’m still thinking why the hell we gave TB 3 players for Kazmir.
Salary dump ALONE would have been enough in BOTH cases.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
Great point.
Rivera and Naps were just face-savers. The anger is rising.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
I'm confused
Usually rebuilding seasons involve spending as little money as possible.
Is Callaspo seriously our third baseman?
We could have had Manny and Johnny Damon, for less than a third of Wells’ contract. Throw Napoli in there and you’d have Napoli, Damon, Manny for about 1/2 of Wells’ money. Ouch!
I always forget that callaspo is our 3rd baseman.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
Look on the bright side
atleast the Angels will likely be better than the Mariners over the life of the Wells deal. So in summary, dumb trade and all – atleast we are NOT the Mariners.
vr, Xei
Calculate the probability of the Halos finishing fifth, will ya?
I know, you can do it in one simulation.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
I Just Can't
Wrap my head around the fact that the Angels’ front office believes: (1) that it will acquire a third baseman who is better than Adrian Beltre at some point in the next four years; and (2) that Vernon Wells is the best OF it can get in that same time frame.
T.Reagins
A ninja, no, an F*ING IDIOT… this might, repeat MIGHT even be worse than not resigning Figgins!!!
I was with you right up until the end.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
HA serious?
Not resigning Figgins was one of the best moves this organization has made in years.
by GrandyOlePal on Jan 21, 2011 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
ferreal broseph
this might, repeat MIGHT even be worse than not picking up GA as a free agent.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 9:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It might even be worse than trading GMJ in his prime.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
I miss Figgy!
But then again, my favorite part of baseball is speed and athleticism, stealing bases, athletic defensive plays. Figgy was the man. At least V Wells will add some speed back into the lineup.
by AybarIsTheNewFiggy on Jan 21, 2011 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
Not Ninja anymore -- his new name is "Big Splash"
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 21, 2011 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
How about Shamu?
Makes big splashes and acquires whales of contracts
How bout Ninja Turd?
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
This trade gives a whole new meaning to the quote that
Tony Reagins was “not yet ready to admit” that this offseason had been a failure.
He wasn’t ready to admit that because we hadn’t closed this deal. Now he’s ready!
Out of all the trades that the Angels have ever made,
this was one of them.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:10 PM PST reply actions
Still holding out hope for Scotty Pods.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
I think
he and Vlad could tighten us up and make us very competitive in the West…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
Great
I still think they could tighten us up if they did…
by thebigtizzle on Jan 21, 2011 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
you do know
Vlad’s mediocre oWAR was .1 points less than Matsui’s oWAR? I’ll take Abreu’s 3.0 oWAR at DH.
oWAR, huh, Good God ya'll.....
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely...
as it turns out this can be a very useful metric in assessing a players value to his team.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:32 PM PST up reply actions
As long as it brings
Scotty Pods wife to the ballpark…
by AybarIsTheNewFiggy on Jan 21, 2011 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
I really like this deal
I think Wells going to Anaheim will help his production, he will be much happier in SoCal and with a Vlad addition, we will be just about set for Of/Dh. 3rd base still worries me though..
I love this team: Angels Baseball 2010
That shouldn't be the only thing you worry about.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah never mind his shitty production in anaheim
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
Ignore his shitty production in Anaheim.
From now on he will not have to be batting against Halo pitching whihc has been, truthfully, rather damned good.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
yeah vlad is pretty much out of the picture
and trust me, mathis worries me more than 3rd lol.
I love this team: Angels Baseball 2010
Bourjos
is our CF, Abreu DH. I like the deal as well. If Wells was a free agent this year his contract would be similar to 4/86.
You're right, just add another two to three years to that contract.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
What if we are all wrong about Jeff Mathi..pfffttt!
I can’t even finish typing this without bursting into tear inducing laughter.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:21 PM PST reply actions
i want to believe in mathis
but he gives us so many reasons not to
I love this team: Angels Baseball 2010
by AngelsBaseball on Jan 21, 2011 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
yup, glory hole.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
jinks, you owe me a Pepsi, right?
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
Hold on...........
Sports Illustrated has something different.
Neither general manager, Tony Reagins of the Angels nor Alex Anthopoulos of the Blue Jays, would specifically say whether any money was included in the trade to offset Wells’ salary. Instead, both GMs danced around the question, simply saying it was announced as a 2-for-1 swap.
Reagins said Wells’ contract was “tolerable” and that he got approval from upper management.
that's completely contrary to all the twitter traffic out there
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
And the direct statement from Anthopoulos.
I can imagine the dancing anyway-Reagins because he was snookered, and AA to avoid gloating.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
makes sense to me
unfortunately
that way Anthopoulos wasn’t laughing into his hand
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Are there any quotes from Anthopoulos where he makes it clear no cash is being sent to the Angels?
I’m searching for articles where there is a definitive statement that no cash was exchanged.
Shaikin was live-twittering the conference call.
Guess he could have heard wrong.
GM Anthopoulos confirms #Angels picking up all $86 million on Wells contract.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
OC Register (Bill Plunkett) wrote
Both Reagins and Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos were evasive in their responses, but Friday’s trade apparently included no cash considerations to help pay Wells.
source
Seems like speculation on Bill’s part. I’m still hoping there is a cash transfer component to this trade.
Oh please oh please oh please oh please, let there be money involved.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
Listen to what we've been reduced to
What the hell do we really care about some more change in Arte’s coin pocket? The end of the business we get to enjoy just got less enjoyable.
I keep going back and forth.
i know this trade is horrible. BUT this outfield could be pretty fun to watch next year… Giving up Juan and Mike for a salary dump is inexcusable though.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
well, at least we got drabek.
right. right…..riiiiight????
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
Well more money in Arte's pocket means he might actually sign good players one of these days..
I know that hasn’t been his logic this off-season. But if he’s got cash maybe he goes and signs a Pujols…..
Hahahahahahhaa
Pujols and Fielder
are out of the question for next offseason then, I suppose
They were out even before this trade was made.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
I honestly thought we were trying to free up $30mil/yr for Pujols
"Ballplayers play baseball." -Jose Mota
by Fred Fredrix on Jan 21, 2011 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
im excited!
For lunchtime halostalk on Tuesday
Early line from vegas puts the number of lunchtime f-bombs at +/-22
Perhaps you've heard of me from the pages of Sports Illustrated...
by Northwest on Jan 21, 2011 9:49 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Pinch yourself to see if you're dreaming.
And the check your backside.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
as real as the streets of los santos
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
I would "Tonya Harding" Mathis in a minute
if I thought a gimp, leg-dragging Mathis wouldn’t still get 450 PA a year from Sosh.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 21, 2011 9:58 PM PST reply actions
When the Yankees take on a salary dump, they get Bobby Abreu and give up nothing,
When the Angels take on a dump, they give up Napoli and Juanito.
EmbarAssing!
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 9:59 PM PST reply actions
SPLASH!
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
Re-Posting: I need to get a Mathis jersey.
I need to get a Jeff Mathis t-shirt jersey.
The last two favorites I got such t-shirts for are now gone.
Got a Lackey shirt in ‘08—gone in ’09. Thankfully that wasn’t such a bad thing.
Got a Napoli shirt in ‘10—gone in early ’11. Hopefully this isn’t a bad thing either.
Time for a Mathis shirt? Or maybe a full on jersey! Who wants to sponsor it for me?
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
mathis tattoo please
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
hot damn, that would be an epic back-piece
great ice breaker too, if you’re one who insists on not wearing a shirt.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
Ask Mathis.
He’s got a $1.6 million windfall burning a hole in his pocket.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
Reagins may have finally succeeded in beating Buzzy Bavasi and his "two 8-7 pitchers" logic
For the dumbest move in Angels franchise history. Hell, at this point I might settle for bringing BILL Bavasi back instead of this clown.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
You just crossed the line.
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by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
I would have said Mike Port
But he’s too smart to get involved with the disaster this club is turning into.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
Hell, at least Bavasi had a hand in building for 2002
TR has been sucking on the Stoneman teat for far too long
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Bavasi helped 'build' the Mariners
That’s been fun. 101 losses in 2008. 101 losses in 2010. Good times, good times.
Stoneman's probably been wishing he got Wells after 2006.
And hence encouraged this move. Or something.
I guess I like some of what Stoneman did. But this all goes back to him, in the end, and it’s toxic. Need to get that whole lot out of there.
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
sports center talking about the trade...
“it was thought to be an untradeable contract… until today”
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
also, the only player making more than wells this year is A-rod
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
Jesus Christ!!!!
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Let's not start a holy war here...
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
Please let this nightmare end.
Every time I look, I see something like
“Wells means Mathis plays more”
“Wells can’t hit lefties”,
“Wells made less than $23M in his first three contract years combined”,
“Wells’ Home/Road splits are home-biased”,
“Wells’ defense is pretty mediocre at best”
“Wells’ and Rivera’s stats are a lot closer than you think”
“The Whole Goddamn Contract? Really? And no trade and an out clause (just our luck, he’ll hit like Pujols this year:))?”
Now, it’s “Wells makes more than Pujols”.
Please make it stop.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
At times like this, the Great Sage says it best
“My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.”
-John Blutarsky
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
and to the fans from TR
“You fucked up…you trusted us.”
- Otter
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
by Moondoggy on Jan 21, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Painfully, but rec’d.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
Listen to him. He's pre-med
Pre-law
Whatever.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Oops.
Meant “…with luck, he’ll hit like Pujols…”
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
Lovely.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2011 Angels, where trAdition comes with a laugh track.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rav9ijyyZk
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
No, I had something a bit more hysterical in mind
Like other teams when they see who we’re rolling out as our starting catcher.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
You know what? There IS a silver lining in this deal.
At long last, I have an excuse to be higher than the International Space Station when watching Angels games. It’ll numb the PTSD of 4 Mathis at-bats a game.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
More silver lining:
This means never being in position to get pwned by Boras again.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Sometimes I wonder if Jeff reads the blog.
But then I think, it’s not personal, it’s business.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
here's how he could avoid all the vitriol -- hit the fuckig ball
oh and actually throw to 2d base every once and a while
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
yeah, he posts here as mathisrocks5
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 10:53 PM PST up reply actions
haha
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 21, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt he's self-aware enough to care what we think
Gil Meche knew enough to recognize a career 99 ERA+ was proof he should hang it up. Mathis, on the other hand, has a manager in his pocket and a front office willing to give him $1.6 million more than he deserves rather than just non-tender him and make him a NRI for spring training.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
Call me crazy, but this trade makes us better
Wells has a higher career OPS (.804) than Crawford (.781) and Beltre (.791) and is coming off an All Star season after 3 so-so seasons in which he reportedly struggled with a wrist injury. BOS owes Crawford way more than Wells is owed, and TEX owes Beltre about the same amount. Plus, Wells is a very similar player to Torii — good power, good defense (especially if he moves to LF and Bourjos is in CF), decent BA, can steal a few bags, is good in the community and probably in the clubhouse, too. Also, Torii was about the same age when he signed in ‘08. Imagine if Torii was a 32-year-old FA today, he would command similar $$ as Wells is now owed. Is anybody complaining that we signed Torii? I know Wells is not a FA signing, but is it so bad to give up two players that they were going to unload in the near future, anyway. And consider that a FA signing similar to this would have cost us two high draft picks. Opposing pitchers now look at our line-up with more fear, and that’s huge.
pretty sure we had a protected pick.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, we are better.
This year alone. Morales? Weaver?
And no, Wells likely wouldn’t get 4/$86, and Tony wouldn’t have paid it.
We needed 3B, more than anything else.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:53 PM PST up reply actions
I agree about 3B, however...
Would anybody have complained if we had signed Crawford instead of Beltre…Crawford’s not a 3B. If we had signed Crawford, we’d have the same trouble signing Weaver and Morales as we do now.
I would have complained.
I liked CC, but not at that kind of money.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
I'll bet Wells is going to play 3B!
OR we’ll re-sign Troy Glaus! And then we’ll be AWESOME! 3 former Blue Jays back together again! Except Glaus would be awesome…if this were four years ago.
Light up that halo! RIP, Nick.
Sign Vlad
and put him at 3B
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 22, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Bat-shit crazy.
…but is it so bad to give up two players that they were going to unload in the near future, anyway.
Yes, because if TR was willing to take on the VW contract he should have been able to get it done for nothing. Toronto would’ve been crazy not to get out from under that contract any way possible.
Then, if you still want to move Napoli and Rivera, you offer them where you can get something for them – prospects, ANYTHING.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Let's get the facts straight
I’m complaining about the money that Torii is owed. The Angels have been extremely lucky with the Hunter signing so far. We still have 2 years left for it to go south. Remember that getting lucky is not the same thing as a smart move.
Next, a top FA signing (assuming a Type A) would NOT have cost us 2 draft picks. Our 1st rounder is protected. Our 2nd round pick is already spent on Downs. Bringing in Crawford, Beltre or Soriano would have only cost us 1 pick – our 3rd rounder. Tiny price to pay for top tier talent.
Finally, Wells has NEGATIVE value. If you want him you take him on waivers for free. Even then, when placed on waivers NOBODY claimed him. Toronto was going to have to pay big bucks to move him. Instead, we assume his entire contract and trade at least one player with positive equity.
The trade is indefensible. It makes no sense … on any level. It doesn’t help us in 2011. It certainly doesn’t help us between 2012 and 2014. We just made the worst trade of the past 25 years and there is no way to spin this.
by bjsguess on Jan 21, 2011 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Welcome to the party, pal!
Die Hard reference, not a sarcastic dis. I like you mna, really.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
this time john wayne does not walk off into the sunset with grace kelly
that was gary cooper asshole!
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
huh?
you’re correct of course (john wayne professed to hate that movie), but this is in reference to…?
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Actually, the Jays are throwing in $5 million
According to the Cot’s website. I know it’s not much, but I wanted to clarify.
No cash.
Really.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
Iv always thought wells is underrated
and if it wasnt for the $$ situation this might even be a good trade. But reagins must be thinking wells is about to have a career year.. thats the only logical explanation… and its not very good logic.
Why isn't it good logic?
The teams that got Crawford, Beltre, Werth…do you honestly think they are saying to themselves, “We better not get too excited, because our new FA might not have a career year.” Wells is off the turf (like Torii when he came to Anaheim) and has never come close to competing for the playoffs. I like Vernon’s chances for this year.
What makes you think he'll come close to competing for the playoffs here either?
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
Then why did he wave the no-trade clause?
AL West is much easier than AL East.
Let's see...
1. Money.
2. Playing on grass instead of turf.
3. Money.
4. Del Taco runs after every home game.
5. Money.
6. Napoli gave him a copy of his black book now that he no longer needs it.
7. Money.
8. Mathis’ batting average will make his new home batting average look like Tony Gwynn’s by comparison.
9. Money.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
Money's the same either way.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 21, 2011 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
Do you seriously think the Jays' chances are as good as the Angels' for making it to the playoffs?
That’s the main point I’m trying to make (I do agree with your argument about the money, though).
the probelm is...
hes owed 20 million a year, and hes not getting any younger… so its this year for his career year or bust. And hes missed time for injuries before, and hes a bigger guy, so i wouldnt really bet on him having a career year this year. Entirely possible though. And again i do think he is a very good hitter. Just not at that price at this point in his career.
"Very good hitter"s have gotten paid outrageous amounts this winter
Wells’ contract may not be great, but is it so awful in light of the market this offseason.
welllll
his numbers are similar with werths (in fact werth has hit more HRs in a single season). And werth is making less yearly….
But i see your point. All things considered its not entirely out of line with other craziness, its just still crazy.
The worse thing about the trade.....
Mathis now has no competition!!!!! There goes 2011. I actually like the trade. Napoli will only get 350-400 at bats and Rivera is finally gone. Yeah we are paying a crapload but hey it brings some freshness to the team…..(I’m trying)
Kohnfed.
No competition?
Conger is a former first round pick who had a good year in Triple-A. Why can’t he step up and provide some serious competition.
Salt Lake inflates...
be wary of “good years” in AAA.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 21, 2011 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough
And I agree that our offense out of the catcher spot could take a significant drop, but our defense should be significantly better.
Two words
Mike Scioscia.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
They might as well lead Mathis off to really rub our faces in it
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
If Scioscia puts such a PREMIUM on catcher defense
Why didn’t he ask – sorry, pull the right puppet strings on – Reagins to make Toronto throw in one of the better defensive catchers we’ve ever had on the team? Y’know…Jose Molina?
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
I suppose you're right
He only caught four baserunners stealing in a single game this season, including Crawford twice.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
Tony Reagins wikipedia page- edited by yours truly
by lightupthehalo29 on Jan 21, 2011 11:06 PM PST reply actions
Funny thing is
I didn’t even write anything untrue.
by lightupthehalo29 on Jan 21, 2011 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
I like the clear delineation of the difference between Stoneman and Reagins
It’s funny too that back in the Stoneman era, we were all complaining about the team not making any moves.
Now we know what it’s like to be making moves all the time, and many of them questionable. I suppose it goes without saying that winning makes all gambles seem brilliant; losing makes everything suspect.
Taking on $86 million without an offset for production that doesn't warrant it isn't a gamble
It’s lunacy.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
You missed the part about him sniffing glue since 2007.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
Hey what if this isnt a bad trade?
i mean my hanger has gone down and now that i think about it if he plays up to his potential it might not be bad
Formerly Angels_48
well, it's still a stupid trade.
blind luck might be on our side, and wells will have a monster year… however, i fear that will just enable the FO to do more stupid shit, and TR will get another fat extension.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry, but how many stupid things has the FO done?
1. He signed Torii. Check.
1a. He traded OC for Jon Garland. That’s a wash.
2. He traded for Teixeira, lost Kotchman and Morales stepped in. Check.
3. He traded for Kazmir. OK, I’ll give you that one.
4. He traded for Callaspo. We desperately needed a 3B, and what we gave up doesn’t worry me too much. This one’s a wash.
5. He traded for Haren. Check.
6. Today’s trade. We can argue about this one until the sun comes up.
As far as FA signings….the biggest FA signings were the ones we didn’t get, and I think there are a lot of good organizations that have missed out on a lot of FA’s…like BOS not getting Teixeira, NY not getting Cliff Lee, etc. I’ll take our FO over most other ones, that is for sure.
You forgot the ridiculous contracts he gave mediocre relief pitchers.
And no, we cannot argue this one – the overwhelming response, both from fans here and experts who have weighed in, is that this was a terrible trade. Subjectively, objectively, it’s bad. For an extra $15 million, the Angels probably didn’t even improve by a win in the standings.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
An argument is not won by a majority
I agree with some of what you’re saying…Rodney had a mostly bad year last year, but isn’t that hindsight after he saved 37 out of 38 the previous year. You mention the extra $15 million, but with the amount of money being spent this offseason in MLB, it’s almost a moot point now. Unless you have the Rays’ farm system, you need to take chances, you need to spend the bucks. The fact is we got an All-Star outfielder who is now healthy, in his early 30’s, and is now playing the great majority of his games on grass for the first time. Yeah, Nap’s 26 bombs are no longer here, but our defense improves behind the plate. If we had DH’d Nap, that’d put Abreu’s weak defense in left. Just my opinion, but defense is underrated. Plus, Nap’s OBP (and thus, his OPS) has been declining steadily in recent years.
Rodney is Bad
And was bad in 2009, and throughout his career, based on his actual performance (how he pitched). Save % is mostly meaningless because it doesn’t tell you how he actually threw the ball. It’s not about hindsight; it’s about actually understanding how players have performed.
Rodney’s save stats are irrelevant. He’s not a good pitcher.
Your point about money is also irrelevant. The Angels did not have to trade for Vernon Wells. They decided not to offer the highest contract for the best two free agents. Fine. Save the money then. Instead, they trade guys who are worth 3 WAR combined for a guy who is worht about…3 WAR! Hey how about that? And they pay $15 million more for the privilege. Who cares that other teams are spending more money. The Angels are too, WITHOUT IMPROVING THE PRODUCT ON THE FIELD.
The Angels barely improve defensively – Napoli was a below average defender, and Mathis may be average (and that’s giving him a lot of the benefit of the doubt). Vernon Wells is also a below average defender. Maybe not as bad as Abreu, but not good, either. So yeah, defense improves somewhat but the decrease in offense offsets that.
Napoli’s OBP was below his career average last year for the first time in 4 years. In a year when offense was down around the league. I’m thinking that’s much more likely to be a fluke than a trend.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
your name and picture make me sad
I demand you change your identity at once!
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
I should have thought better of posting a comment during drunk posting time on HH.
Peter Bourjos is faster than anyone on your team.
so you posted again? dick
haha, jk
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
its possible
but in order to make it worth his salary he really needs to have a career year or two.
What's his potential?
The splits clearly show he was a product of the Rogers Centre. His career output in Anaheim is abysmal even for a relatively small sample size. If Scioscia sticks to his plan from today’s conference call and sticks him in a corner OF spot, his offense won’t be as valuable as it was when he played CF.
More to the point, the added burden his contract places on the payroll handcuffs our options for future FAs, including retaining our own guys. It was already going to be a tall order trying to retain our Boras clients, assuming Arte even bothers dealing with him when the time comes. Now? Forget it. And any ghost of a chance we had at making a Werth/Crawford style massive offer to Pujols if he becomes available vanishes completely. It’s not just about his production; it’s what we’re paying for that production that makes this such a stupid move.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
look on the bright side guys
Wells was essentially the worst OF when hitting against lefties last season. good thing our division doesn’t have any quality left handers…oh wait, it does? shit
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
so you're saying
he’s due?
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
Hopefully, not counting on it though.
He did hit really well against them in 2008, so maybe he can rebound some.
all he has to do is learn a few things from mickey hatcher and he can start mashin those soft-tossin lefties in no time.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't think anything could make this situation worse.
I forgot they still employ Mickey Hatcher.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
Shit just gets worse.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Over at Blue Bird-ville
They have Naps and Rivera seeing very limited playing time.
But don’t care—it’s all about losing the contract
Look at the bright side
If you wear Angels gear to a game in Toronto from now on, you can probably get a Molson or two for free out of pity/gratitude.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:44 PM PST up reply actions
The worst part of the Werth move is how it affected the succeeding moves
by JWbruin on Jan 21, 2011 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
and the only team that benefitted from that move was
the A’s, by getting Willingham
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:50 PM PST up reply actions
It was a good trade
There’s no salary cap in baseball guys…why is everyone so upset? When free agency hits, Weaver is gone, so why not go into “win now” mode? Everyone complained about Rivera’s defense and Abreu’s defense…now those problems have been solved. The 4 big league Catchers problem? Solved also. Scioscia would always loved Mathis anyway as we know, Napoli leaving should not come as a shock to anyone. He was in a few trade rumors last year anyway. At least he’s not going to the Red Sox.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
by oasisman on Jan 21, 2011 11:40 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
you are an idiot
Wells is making the 2nd most money in baseball next season, he is making the same amount of money as Joe Mauer. salary cap or no, this is a serious waste of money, especially considering the Nats prob would have given us Willingham for Napoli.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:42 PM PST up reply actions
Name calling not necessary
Arte obviously wanted to spend the money…so it got spent. It wasn’t the smartest way to spend money obviously, but if Wells is a productive hitter and a decent fielder, it would not have been a complete waste like GMJ or Steve Finley or years of Scot Shields. I still think this is a better deal than the 2-3 yr extension the Angels gave Abreu at almost $10 mil a yr.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
apologies, you are correct
what I should have said is that what you said was an idiotic statement
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:54 PM PST up reply actions
the mindset of a clipper fan.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 22, 2011 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
We "solved" problems, sure
by being idiots about it. That’s like fishing with an atom bomb.
by TheKingfish on Jan 21, 2011 11:43 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, if somebody wrote a book about the angels FO, it would be the complete opposite of moneyball.
and when they would make it into a movie, Tyler Perry would direct it.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
I think you meant
Uwe Boll.
RIP Coach Wooden (1910-2010).
by BigKahunaMan on Jan 21, 2011 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
give it up, Tony
arte doesn’t post on HH.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 11:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lol!
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 21, 2011 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
How does signing a player who imrpoves your team MAYBE byy one win (that’s being very generous – it might actually be a wash in terms of value) constitute “win now” mode? We paid $15 million to go from 83 wins to 84. If we’re lucky.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
A wash is too optimistic
I’d say the Angels’ win expectancy for next season dropped by at least three games next season, two at the very best, and it doesn’t end in 2011. Ninjas are so agile they can even kick themselves in the balls.
UNLESS
Conger takes over and dominates. then we have an upgraded Rivera, and a young catcher of the future. should make them better
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
That argument just doesn't work
The Angels already had Conger. The opportunity cost is zero. They paid $86 million to lose the option of choosing between Mike Napoli and Hank Conger.
I'm choosing to ignore this response
for my sanity’s sake
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry, 2 pints,
But there is no sanity clause.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
ignoring this one too
and while I’m at it, I’m going to ignore Wells for the next 4 years. it could work!
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
There is a budget and Wells' contract is a constraint on ours.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Wells' deal is no worse than Tori's contract
At least, that is Reagin’s explanation.
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jan 21, 2011 11:54 PM PST reply actions
anomoly.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 21, 2011 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
I liked the email I got from the Angels announcing the trade
Reagins was quoted as saying “Wells is a player we’ve had our eyes on for several years.” WTF?? why would they have interest in him for several years? he had one of, if not THE worst contracts in the game. fuck this FO!!!
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
Yeah, I wonder what they were thinking about during those several years...
wait until the back end of his contract to pick him up?
Hey arte, vernon is due 23 mill this year, lets pull the trigger!
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 22, 2011 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
I can't wait
For our 78-84 season this year ZOMG trAdition
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
I think Sosh made this happen
he wanted to fuck up Nap’s game with the ladies, and what better way then to send him to the complete polar opposite of baseball markets?
its official, Nap banged Sosh’s daughter. no one can convince me otherwise.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
Embarassing
I took the advice to get another 40 by the way.
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
Another?
That implies you’ve only had 2. Man, I’m glad I know how to make my own booze…
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2011 12:15 AM PST up reply actions
There are also jello shots at this party
For what it’s worth.
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
It's worth at least 3-6 minutes.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:25 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, same as last weekend..including a lot more drama
Part of why I’m kickin’ it this weekend.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2011 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
went to dinner with the wife to take my mind off things
all I wanted was a huge beer to drown myself in. I order it and.. waiting…thinking of Nap and Vernon…waiting…then 30 fucking minutes later, it finally comes. only instead of the 22 ounce trough I ordered, he brought me a 14 ounce sippy cup. I wanted to punch him in the face SO BAD.
then my pasta was ice cold. FML!!!
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:19 AM PST up reply actions
Sellout
Shouldn’t have gotten married. ;)
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2011 12:29 AM PST up reply actions
she was the lone bright spot in my night actually
but I hear ya
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
Heh
Feel free to light me up here or elsewhere if you want…cuz I’m lit right now.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2011 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
I am too
oh wait, no I’m not. that thimble of beer didn’t do anything except make me angry at beer too. and I’m out of weed. seriously, FML. I do have a little bit of those shrooms left though, but its kinda late to be taking those…
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
They won't even kick in for like 45 minutes anyway.
Don’t waste them on Wells-pull yourself together, man!
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:43 AM PST up reply actions
dammit you're right
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:45 AM PST up reply actions
Good call, save them for Burning Man, or
the touring company of Wizard of Oz or something.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:52 AM PST up reply actions
my buddy in the FO
kept telling me this is a good move. I argued the point, but he was adament about it. and no, my buddy is not Tony/Arte/Sosh. God I hope he’s right…but I seriously have my doubts.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
I'd rather have Podsednik
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
This, and I hated the idea of Podsednik.
At least he would have been a cheap, 1 year clusterfuck
Angel King isn't coming today?
These are just potatoes.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 22, 2011 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
Hunter, Abreu, Wells, Piniero … Have to say it. The Angels are absolutely favorites to win the 2002 World Series again
Heard that damn joke twice already in the last hour…….Wells going to shut us all up…….i hope
Formerly Angels_48
anyone else think
Mathis is moving all his shit into Nap’s old bedroom, the one with the bathroom attached? then he’s gonna call up Conger and see if he wants to rent his old room and have Mathis show him around the bar scene. to which Conger replies “I’m from HB bitch, you ain’t showing shit around”
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
$86 million for Vernon Wells....
HAHAHA!!
I’ve been laughing and crying all day about this.
I’ve been having trouble sleeping lately, so hopefully this is just a bad dream. Somebody wake me soon, please. Please!
I've got nothing.
I wonder what sexual favors Reagins got from Alex Anthopolous
To make this deal
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
I'm picturing
Dirk Diggler in the truck
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 22, 2011 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
Sick. Just sick.
I came up with three myself:
A Jules Vernon: Down to the Bottom of the Sea
A Greek Salad: Crunchy, tossed, and bitter; watch out for pits
A Ryan Express: Fastball Down The Middle
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
ahhh, this deserves a rec.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 22, 2011 12:52 AM PST up reply actions
Thought so when I wrote it
humbly, I might add.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:53 AM PST up reply actions
Can't wait for the Bourjos, Conger & Walden
For Alfonso Soriano deal tomorrow.
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
I just figured this trade out.
Jeff Mathis obviously has some pictures of the Angels FO with a goat or something. Maybe he gave a copy of those pictures to the Jays FO, so that they could get the Angels to give up Napoli for Vernon Wells. And then Mathis gets more playing time!
We knew about those pictures already.
Thing about goats:
No matter how much you screw ’em, the bleating never stops.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:41 AM PST up reply actions
Succinct yet indecipherable commentary.
Pissed off or totally cool with it? Let’s go to the phones!
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Jan 22, 2011 12:50 AM PST reply actions
The way I see it...
…Scioscia wasn’t going to play Napoli full-time anyway. Plus, Rivera was not going to get any playing time at all.
We have to be honest with ourselves; Top Tier players like playing on the east coast for well-ran/funded/storied clubs. Let’s face it, we only have one championship and we are currently(believe it or not) living in the golden era of Angels Baseball.
Let’s look at the positives:
1. Abreu is out of LF and now a DH
2. Mathis will be the everyday starter and will show his true colors(meaning Conger will win the starting job)
3. We know have a roster spot that could be filled with a Petit, Trumbo, or Conger depending on how Spring Training develops(though I would say that Conger will be the starting the season in AAA).
4. Napoli and Rivera would have combined for over 11 million in salary.
5. GMJ’s 11 million will be off the books next year.
6. Wells can hit 30 HR’s.
….I know I’m digging deep here but thick or thin, this is my team!!!
Responses to the above
1. Abreu was out of LF anyways.
2. Mathis has been showing his true colors for years.
3. That empty roster spot should have been vacated by someone else (see #2).
4. …which is less than half what Vernon Wells will make this season.
5. But Vernon Wells will be on the books for twice that much money per season until 2014.
6. So can Mike Napoli, with sufficient playing time.
The Angels are my team as well. But I’ll put it this way. I’m also an American, and if America invaded Antarctica and conducted a mass extermination of emperor penguins at great expense to the taxpayers, wouldn’t you maybe feel a little bit like the time for looking on the bright side had passed too?
Fuck the penguins
and anything else having to do with Pittsburgh
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Wow, how quickly we forget that GMJ’s money is already off the books. In the financial reports that were leaked on Deadspin this summer (remember those?),the Angels stated they were going to charge-off the whole sum in 2010’s financials. So his money means nothing as far as payroll in 2011.
As for Mathis, why does everyone insist on catchers that have big power but no glove? The position is one where we need defense first. Napoli has always been known for his bat, but his defense has been absolutely criminal, to the point where his defensive WAR in his best season was a -0.1. For those of you unfamiliar with the stat, that means he was actually worse than a replacement-level player whenever he played in the field.
Mathis and Wilson won’t hit much, but they are catchers, and not everybody can be Johnny Bench, Mike Piazza or Brian McCann.
Also, Wells has an opt-out clause after this season, though the only way he would actually exercise that is if he had an MVP-type season and felt he could do better than $21 million per season, which is what he gets for the last three years of his contract.
In summary, my responses:
1) Abreu will be in left if Bourjos doesn’t hit enough in ST to make the team and be the leadoff player that Scioscia needs.
2) Conger starts in Salt Lake unless he tears the cover off the ball in Arizona. Mathis will catch five times a week, Wilson the other two, at least until Conger gets the call in-season.
3) Trumbo isn’t making this team, period. He looked like a deer in headlights against MLB pitching. Pettit also won’t make this team because the Angels just forked over $775k to Willits and he is coming off a major injury and will need to prove he is fully recovered from it.
4) Yes, Wells makes more, but neither Nap nor Rivera were going to do anything for the Angels’ defense, which was downright putrid last season.
5) Already addressed GMJ at the top of this
6) Suboptimal, Nap would hit 30 HRs with only 70 RBI because he strikes out 25.6 percent of the time for his career and actually struck out 26.8 percent of the time last season. If he had the pop of Ryan Howard, Adam Dunn or Mark Reynolds, you could excuse that. He doesn’t.
This is so wrong it's almost not worthy of response
But I’ll bite. I’m having a bad day.
First of all, until the league gives each team nine DH positions instead of one, you have to add dWAR and oWAR to determine how valuable a player is. Napoli may be below replacement defensively, but when you factor in his bat and adjust it to reflect the fact that most catchers suck at hitting, he becomes a pretty valuable player.
Now we’re giving more PAs to a guy who is almost as bad defensively. He also happens to be the worst hitter in baseball. The thought that he’s “just a catcher” is ridiculous. I Brian McCann was on your team for two more years would you just release him because he’s “just a catcher”? Turns out, McCann is not much better than Napoli, both with the bat and the glove.
This is fun too:
AB/HR K%
Adam Dunn 14.1 26.9%
Ryan Howard 12.8 27.5%
Mike Napoli 16.8 25.6%
Mark Reynolds 16.3 33.6%
Napoli can knock them out of the park with the best of them. And he’s “just a catcher,” not a gloveless DH/1B/OF like the other guys, which is even more of an excuse.
But who’s worried? Vernon Wells will just opt out of his remaining $60 million if he doesn’t win the MVP next season.
Sub, don't put Napoli in those guys category
Because he isn’t there. He’s not even close to there.
AB/HR is the one stat that makes you look good.
Let’s try the others that shoot you down.
RISP
Napoli .215/.342/.389
Howard .278/.412/.569
Dunn .231/.411/.478
Reynolds .261/.366/.515
Men On
Napoli .236/.349/.440
Howard .286/.398/.609
Dunn .245/.403/.504
Reynolds .265/.360/.516
Bases Empty
Napoli .263/.343/.521 (59 HR out of 92 career HR, 64.1%)
Howard .271/.343/.536 (114 HR out of 253 career HR, 45%)
Dunn .255/.360/.535 (199 HR out of 354 career HR, 56.2%)
Reynolds .222/.309/.454 (62 HR out of 121 career HR, 51.2%)
The other three guys have proven they can not only hit the long ball with runners on, but that they can also extend the inning even if they don’t get a dinger. Napoli is a career .731 OPS with RISP, the next lowest among your examples is Reynolds, who is 150 points better.
Napoli is a .789 career OPS with any runners on, the next lowest is Reynolds who is 87 points better.
Sure, Napoli can hit them out, but he’s a bona fide rally killer and the numbers show that pitchers aren’t intimidated in the least when he is up there in a big spot as he hasn’t hurt them at all.
Can you cite any evidence
To contradict the accepted statistical argument that “clutching hitting” is not a repeatable skill, and results completely from random variation and/or systematic bias?
can you cite any evidence
that pressure does not affect people differently?
Or is this just something nerds invented to protect rally killers?
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jan 22, 2011 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
In other words
No, you can’t. But nice try with the nerd-baiting.
Of course, these statistical arguments assume both numeracy and a quest for the truth. Too often, neither of these things is in play. The notion of clutch persists because it allows for a storyline with a hero and a goat, and that’s both an easy tale to write and an easy one to read. While it’s a facile concept, players buy into it because it’s flattering. No one wants to believe that they’re successful just because they hit the genetic lottery and that, on a particular day, they performed better than the other, equally-gifted guys. It’s much more enjoyable to extrapolate a certain moral superiority from on-field success, to attribute that game-winning double to your heart and desire, rather than to your fast-twitch muscles and hitting the fastball at just the right angle to push it past the diving center fielder. It’s this need to turn physics and physicality into a statement about the character of people—to stick labels on them based on their day at work and the bounce of a ball—that is the most damning thing about the myth of clutch. Joe Sheehan
Nice try, sub
However, I didn’t use any of the “clutch” statistics (RISP/2 out, Close and Late, Tie Game, etc.). All I did was show the numbers for performance with runners on and without runners on, regardless of the situation, because anyone knows that you can have the bases empty, 2 out in the 9th inning of a tie game and that is a much different situation than 2 on, 1 out in a 4-0 game in the 4th inning.
Care to cite something that would actually be relevant to my argument, or are you going to invent yet another diversion?
I thought James had changed his tune on clutch hitting?
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
still waiting for the evidence
that pressure does not affect people differently.
I think you’ll need to do more than looking through your favorite quotes from BP to use as strawmen.
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jan 23, 2011 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
You could read Section 1-2 of Baseball Betwen the Numbers if you wanted evidence
But you don’t, and you won’t. I’m not having this discussion any longer.
any section
any biology book
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Jan 23, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
One little point
the % of homers with the bases empty I think it a bit deceiving. The other 3 guys bat 4th or 5th in the lineup so they are batting behind their teams best hitters who get on base at a higher %. Naps has batted 6th to 8th in the lineup a lot, basically behind guys with some of our lowest OBPs.
What's done is done.
Let’s put this thing to bed and love whoever we wake up with. What the hell else are we gonna do?
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
I want to go on record and say I am okay with this......
just for future reference.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 22, 2011 7:17 AM PST reply actions
WOW Shock!
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
I'm not going to get all up in arms about the trade.......
the money, the salary, the WAR, OPS blah blah blah.
There are enough people blasting the move……….
I prefer to give an organization that has been the class of the AL West for the better part of 10 years a little bit of leeway.
Besides, someone has to drink the millions of gallons of kool aid that is sitting idle.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 22, 2011 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
As a Rangers' fan, who also reads HH regularly,
I want to go on record and say I am okay with this, too. :)
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Jan 22, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
You guys are going to need this:
Obviously, it’s up at SEVERE down in SoCal. We’ve put it LOW forever in Toronto.
Reality Check....
First: I am not an Angels fan.
Second: I thought any team trading for Vernon Wells was crazy.
But in response to some of the comments, and to the article:
Angel fans seems to really love Juan Rivera. I gotta tell you though, he really isn’t a good player. He shouldn’t be a starter for sure. Horrid defense, terrible running ability. Last years stats were well below MLB average for an OF.
Napoli is ok, but he is a .240 hitter. Sure, he can hit 20 HRs, but so can a lot of guys. Plus he isn’t a catcher, he is a guy who plays catcher, big difference.
The Angels didn’t give up much, but they got back Vernon Wells’ ridiculous contract. Its a wash.
Sorry,
He hit 26 home runs last season, and that was with a limited number of plate appearances. He is WITHOUT ANY EXAGGERATION a 30+ home run hitter. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
not from the bench, dude -- and his bWAR is 0.0 --
and that’s where he was going to spend 1/3-1/2 of the season. So, unless you advocate getting rid of Soth, this was a trade of two bench players for a starting CF/LF(hopefully). The contract is what makes this deal abominable in my eyes and if this albatross keeps us from signing WTY or KMO, then this is a bad bad thing. If not, then I can live with Vernon Wells. He is not GMJ or Steve Finley. He’s a solid citizen who is also a pretty good ball player.
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
limited plate appearances?
he played in 140 games and had 453 ABs.
Joe Mauer had the most Abs for catchers with 510.
Yeah, Napoli could hit 30 Hrs.
He could also do what he did last year, and give you a .238 Avg and a miserable .316 OBP for 500 at bats.
Add in the fact he is a below average defensive player, and you get a Jack Cust without the walks.
this trade...
stinks. In my opinion.
Has anyone read any kind of defense of this trade that has not come from an Angels fan, Angels employee, or Angels apologist/propogandist (see Spencer, Lyle)
All of the "independent" blasting
is coming from people solely because of the amount still left on Wells’ contract. Strictly from a baseball standpoint, this trade is clearly better for the Angels. They get a solid defensive outfielder and also the impact bat they were looking for. They managed to do this in exchange for a catcher/DH who was going to platoon in both roles while still only playing 115 games and a platoon outfielder who was an iron glove.
Also
I didn’t realize that Yahoo’s Tim Brown was an Angels apologist.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqNBK4RQ1m7EUrpdhtc8NSURvLYF?slug=ti-angelswells012111
Thanks.
It was a somewhat serious question. I hadn’t read anything like that. The last comment is telling, though. While this might improve the club in 2011, it is not a difference make, and comes at a huge cost.
It’s clear that Mike Napoli is undervalued by many people… most importantly, the Angels. We could have black holes, offensively, at C, SS, 3B, and DH in 2011. While Wells improves the OF defense, he’s not very good. I hope the stars align, like they did in 2002, but this was a weak trade.
very false. he is almost as overrated defensively as Jeter.
He will be a good LF. But he lost his ability in CF after the hamstring injury years.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
I seem to have found myself at Onion.com
Can someone direct me to Halos Heaven please.
by eyespy on Jan 25, 2011 4:15 PM PST via mobile reply actions
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