When did Angels fans become so spoiled?
by Brody on Jan 5, 2011 10:04 AM PST
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I am incensed at all of the comments about how we deserve this or that, and still other comments to the effect that supposed fans will not support the team next season. If anyone thinks that one, two, or even several consecutive losing or non-playoff seasons is a reason to abandon the team or not go to games, then that person is not a real fan in the first place. In fact, by that logic, only the Yankees and Red Sox would have any fans at all.
In the past 10 years, we averaged nearly 90 wins per season, never lost 90 games, never had consecutive losing seasons, and never went more than one season without winning over 90 games. We made the playoffs 6 times, won the division 5 times (including 5 of the past 7), played in the ALCS 3 times, and won a World Series.
How did our division rivals fare during that time? The Mariners made the playoffs once -- as division champions in 2001. They lost in the ALCS, and then averaged fewer than 77 wins per season, including 5 losing seasons, 4 seasons of more than 90 losses, and 2 seasons of more than 100 losses.
The Rangers made the playoffs once -- as division champions last year. They lost in the World Series. During the 9 prior years, they averaged 78 wins, and had 7 losing seasons and 2 seasons of more than 90 losses.
The A's, meanwhile, made the playoffs 4 times and won the division 3 times. They advanced to the ALCS only once and got swept by Detroit. In the last 4 years, they had three consecutive losing seasons and the 81-81 finish last year.
It thus seems to me that life was pretty damn good compared to our division rivals over the past decade. If we deserve better and have no reason to support our team, then MLB should just disband the whole freaking AL West because none of these teams deserves any fans.
So what, you say, who cares about the rest of the division -- we deserve better! Well, how did the rest of MLB fare during this time?
Five teams -- the Pirates, Nationals, Blue Jays, Orioles, and Royals -- never made the playoffs in the past decade. Enough said about them.
Five teams -- the Mets, Reds, Tigers, Brewers, and Marlins -- only went to the playoffs once in the past decade. Three of those teams -- the Tigers, Brewers, and Marlins -- did so as the wild card and thus never won a division title. Of this group, only the Marlins won a World Series, and they were the definition of mediocre during this timeframe -- 5 losing seasons, 5 winning seasons, and an average of 81 wins per year. I'm fairly certain no one wants to trade places with these teams either.
Five teams -- the Padres, Indians, Rockies, Rays, and White Sox -- only went to the playoffs twice in the past decade, and the Rockies never won a division title. The White Sox won a World Series and were respectable during most of the decade, but averaged 5 fewer wins per season than the Angels.
Five more teams -- the Dodgers, Cubs, Astros, Diamondbacks, and Giants -- only went to the playoffs three times in the past decade. The Dodgers and Cubs both lost in the first round twice and in the NLCS the other year. Of the two World Series winners in this group, the Diamondbacks had 5 losing seasons, 3 seasons of more than 90 losses, and one season of 111 losses, while the Giants averaged 5 fewer wins per season than the Angels and at one point had 4 consecutive losing seasons.
This leaves 6 teams that are even worth comparing to the Angels -- the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Cardinals, Twins, and Braves.
Of these teams, the Angels out-performed the Twins and Braves by almost every metric. Like the Angels, the Twins and Braves each went to the playoffs 6 times. Unlike the Angels, however, the Twins and Braves did not make it to a World Series, much less win one. They both advanced to the LCS once and lost in the first round 5 times, whereas the Angels went to the LCS 3 times. The Twins and Braves both also averaged 1 fewer win per season than the Angels.
So that leaves the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, and Cardinals, meaning that at worst the Angels were one of the 5 most successful franchises in MLB this past decade. In fact, the Angels averaged 1.6 more wins per year than the Phillies and went to the playoffs two more times than they did. Our nearest comparable is the Cardinals, and only the Yankees and Red Sox were demonstrably more successful.
To make a long story short, I have no problem with those who want to vent about how you would have improved the team or what shortcomings you perceive heading into next season. But to everyone who is lamenting our sorry state and is vowing to give up on the team entirely, please take a step back, get some perspective, and shut the fuck up (there is my one for January).
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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A rec for this man
We have one of the highest payrolls in the game, one of the best pitching staffs and an offense and defense that have nowhere to go but up.
our greatest decade ever
we arrived to “big boy” level and expectations are now bigger….that happens in the so cal melting pot.
i think most people would’ve felt a little (not much) better with the front office’s off-season performance if Arte didn’t make the big boasts about “doing whatever it takes.” right now it feels like there is no plan c, d or e in sight but i pray i’m wrong.
by SCHalo on Jan 5, 2011 10:27 AM PST reply actions 8 recs
This^^^
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 5, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
100% right on the money
When the owner goes out of his way to tell the fans that he is going to do whatever it takes we naturally assume that he is not just blowing smoke. As a fan if I want to follow an erratic narcissistic owner who cannot be trusted but does have a great winning history Id be a raider fan. As it happens, I’m not.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
A great winning history = Raiders??
Yeah, sure, in the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s. In case you weren’t aware, the Raiders just went 8-8 (the equivalent of what we did last year) to snap a 7-year losing streak. Not only did they have losing records during those years, but the Raiders also were the first team in NFL history to lose at least 11 games in 7 consecutive seasons. So, please, let’s not be ridiculous and compare the Angels and Moreno to the Raiders and Al Davis.
I did say history didn't I?
Is there a time limit on when history expires? My god people are touchy here. If Arte doesn’t want to be questioned he should not put himself in the public eye. Last I checked, questioning authority was an American tradition, you people are acting like the freaking Moreno Youth around here. You need to get over yourself and accept that maybe not everyone agrees with everything he does
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
No one agrees with everything he does
That doesn’t justify that after one .500 season you are justified comparing him to an owner who had an equivalent .500 season preceded by 7 years of at least 11 losses. To be equally bad, the Angels would have to lose at least 110 games per season for the next 7 years. If you don’t want to be called out, don’t say things that make you sound like a complete jackass.
by Brody on Jan 5, 2011 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
the raiders
Also maintained a winning tradition for 3 decades before it fell apart and won 3 championships. The angels haven’t even one 1 under Moreno. Davis was creative in bringing in talent and did what ever it took. Just win baby meant something. Things change and Im hoping that that are not already in anaheim
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
and I didnt start this shit with you so who is being a jackass?
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Maybe Brody only knows the Raiders as losers
Maybe he doesn’t remember the glory days of Blanda, LaMonica and Plunkett. In any event, what you said made sense to me.
GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!
8-8 BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, I think Brody got it just right
As far as I know, Al Davis hasn’t taken a cut in pay, even though he charges NFL rates for a team which has been mediocre for many, many years.
To compare Moreno to Davis is an insult to Moreno. Though Davis’ teams were titans in decades past (hell, I still remember 100-year old George Blanda coming in to save the day), the team in the past 10 has been forgettable at best.
In contrast, we’re discussing a single losing season, following a trip to the ALCS (and but for a couple of twists of fate, a trip to the Series). If this is the way things are in 2015, then the comparo to Davis is apt; otherwise, it is misguided. The “winning history” of the Raiders stopped being germaine a long time ago, just as reminiscing about Mets world championships are exercises in nostalgia and nothing more.
"I can't tell people what to think or not to think. Their perceptions are their perceptions. We just feel we've taken a step forward. At the end of the day, we have to play 162 games. Once that happens then we'll be able to evaluate the offseason moves."~Tony Reagins, on the Angels' offseason
by George Kaplan on Jan 9, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
just as reminiscing about Mets world championships are exercises in nostalgia and nothing more.
Careful, we’ve only got another year+ of saying “in the last decade.”
:(
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 10, 2011 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
SCHalo is 100% right
How many times have the Angels gone to the playoffs before the New MO-llenium?
1. 1979
2. 1982
3. 1986
Most Angels fans on this board [can’t really say me, because I had a decade of awfulness (90s) and greatness (00s)], got tire of collapses and failures and curses (and debating as such – Indian Burial Ground).
Let me put this in prospective for you, your mom and dad keep saying they are going to buy you a Rolls Royce and then they buy you a Vespa instead because “it is cheaper”. How would you feel?
Another point
Some of us are old time fans. We have worn the Angel cap for decades. I myself have worn it for 37 years, listening to pompous dodger fans and hearing the fans of teams like the Indians out shout us at games. I don’t want to see those days return and have earned my right to complain about the possibility
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
by ArchAngel_7 on Jan 5, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes you have
and don’t let some arse spewing the company line and the tired old “you’re not a real fan” take that away from you. Just like me, you probably have been just fine over the years cheering for guys like Carew, Joyner, Finley, Anderson, and Glaus knowing they were among the leagues elite whether or not the record indicated this or the national media pumped it up. When did we become so spoiled? When our humble franchise went mouth spewing, guns ablazing declaring hope and change, and reverted to shooting blanks. We all could/would have gladly spent our offseason talking about who will make the team from downstairs and will probably do that now; we talked about the likes of Crawford, Lee, Beltre, Soriano, Guerrero, even DLee because of organization. There’s no doubt we will support whosever on the field, but your doggone right that we;re pisses, with good reason. I’ll place my three decades old hat next to your four decades old hat anyday, sir, and will defend to the core your right to complain as a faithful FAN about organizational behavior that threatens to backtrack where we were when this owner took over the franchise. . Not getting the big FAs, the fans on this board have shown disappointment, but have been relatively positive and hopeful. Maybe we don’t deserve any of those free agents, including Beltre (not sure I agree with that), but I’ll go out of my way to risk being spoiled and say any man, any man who proudly wears his team’s flag, deserves a third baseman. Much respect.
by thebigtizzle on Jan 5, 2011 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
by DAD OF VLAD on Jan 5, 2011 10:29 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
not sure whats worse
DOV posting this in every thread, or me laughing every time I see it
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Can you please stop posting this in every thread? I have to hide the screen from my kids every time I go through the forums here.
by HungryHunter on Jan 5, 2011 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
all it is
is a fat, angry, black, gay guy
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
you have to hide that from your kids?
Who are you, Ned Flanders?
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Um yes
I don’t let my toddler see a guy sitting around playing with a knife. Especially since it is in EVERY THREAD and is entirely pointless. Do you even have kids?
by HungryHunter on Jan 5, 2011 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
yes I do
9 and 3. And if they were dumb enough to see a gif of a guy holding a knife and think it was a good idea to emulate it, i’d rap them both in bubble rap and chain them to their beds for the rest of their lives. Further, do you have a super intelligent toddler who will see that .gif and gather enough information from it that he/she decides it’s a great idea to run and grab a knife (which should be out of reach of the child anyway) and try to emulate the gay black man’s behavior? Or are you just really over protective and anal? Do you place a burlap sack over your childs head anytime you are cutting vegetables? Do you have to rush your son or daughter out of the room when the ginsu knife commercial comes on?
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Your kids don’t emulate things they see in the media? My kid would go through all of my cabinets if I let him and, as I’m sure you know, its hard to keep everything out of their hands all the time. And to answer your questions, I am completely ok with my son seeing someone using a knife for cooking. When I was a kid, I once sat in my room throwing a knife at the wall over and over.
The main thing though it that the video is in every thread and is entirely pointless. It would be one thing to have it in one thread, but its in every thread I open.
I find this both intriquing and distrubing...
I once sat in my room throwing a knife at the wall over and over.
by WiHaloFan on Jan 5, 2011 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Wow!
2 chicks posted on HH in one day that I want numbers from.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 5, 2011 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
But this one seems to be making some kind of statement
concerning the size of your fuse.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
Well she's not stopping
Obviously she’s enjoying it…
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 5, 2011 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
As if you could last that long...
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
One Minute Man
I got stuff to do, bro!
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 5, 2011 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
And no, I don’t let my kids watch R rated movies and I try to avoid exposing them to violence and sex on TV.
I can see you being annoyed by it
It is in every thread and yeah it’s pointless. I just don’t see why it should have anything to do with the child. A gif of some fat bozo twirling a knife is a far cry from an R Rated movie. My step son likes to pretend he’s Buzz Lightyear, and my daughter had a phase where she was trying wrestling moves, but that’s the extent of my kids emulating what they see on TV. Different strokes I suppose. I really hadn’t intended for this to be a parental debate. Every parent is different and does what they feel they need to do. I figured you were just sick of the image and were using your child to add some leverage to your argument for getting rid of it.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty much ready for the banhammer on this vid
Don't call me Bugs. Although Bugs Bunny could do it all on the baseball field.
by highlandhalo on Jan 5, 2011 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I like it
and laugh every time. the more he posts it, the funnier it is becoming for me.
does this mean I’m as sick as DOV?
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
it is funny becaue it is so stupid
i have been waiting to use it when i first discovered it. Once i let it loose it just took off and became useful in every tread
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
by DAD OF VLAD on Jan 5, 2011 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
"...became useful in every tread"
Uh, no.
by WiHaloFan on Jan 5, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
squerrel with big nuts?
uh, no
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
it is a .gif
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
Ted Bundy's parents went through similar overprotective precautions with their child.
It’s really a crapshoot, buddy. Just hope and pray your kid doesn’t grow up to be a serial killer, and enjoy the angry fat black man that DOV is nice enough to share with us.
I've got nothing.
by bc56274 on Jan 5, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I submit the theory....
That Senor Hunter is just jealous of DOV’s ability to produce .gifs out of nowhere. Keep on trollin’ DOV, keep on trollin’. As long as it’s funny ;)
Hey polonia, shut up.
All the guy asked was that the guy stop posting a video, that’s all. Who are you to question how he raises his kids. Just because that’s not the standard by which you raise your own kids doesn’t mean you can’t respect that. You’re a father, grow up. At least don’t make a mockery of how he raises his kids.
by moralesforpresident on Jan 7, 2011 1:42 AM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure I already covered that with him
But he really needed you to come to his rescue Internet White Knight! But what are you doing here when there are so many fat girls on youtube who need saving? Quickly now! Hop upon your mighty steed and go! For the good of the internet!
And by the way, telling someone to grow up mere seconds after childishly telling them to shut up is too hypocritical for words.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 7, 2011 6:44 AM PST up reply actions
My gaydar must be off
so how exactly do we know this man is gay?
I meant the OTHER Howard!
by agent_99 on Jan 6, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
your gaydar is broken
trust us Americans we did save your asses a few times
Supplier of Angels Fans Since 2009
llol
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 6, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
If I knew what that means, I could formulate a response.
Should I even ask for a explanation?
I meant the OTHER Howard!
DATS RACIST!
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 5, 2011 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
sure is
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
Verba sapienti
If you are running Firefox, you can use the Ad Block Plus plugin to block that image selectively.
Hahahahaha
very nice!
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 5:01 PM PST up reply actions
God bless you, Mr Rosewater
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Jan 5, 2011 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rec
just becasue you spent the time to do that
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
You're Begging the Question
And answering it yourself: Angel fans started to feel entitled when the Angels started to get consistently good. Nothing wrong with that. An entitled, demanding fan base helps fuel dominant franchises.
As to your essential point that we should be grateful for the past decade: Damn straight. Not sure anyone would dispute that. But do we really need a post that tells fair-weather fans to fuck off (mine for January)? Doesn’t that go without saying?
by GrichManPoorMan on Jan 5, 2011 10:36 AM PST reply actions
Hell froze over for me in 2002.
So, no complaints from me. I’m content for life.
No free agents? No problem. Just makes me excited at the prospect of people dumping tickets to me for dirt cheap during the season. Still gotta get in the diamond club for under $10 each … that’s one of my goals.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Jan 5, 2011 10:44 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
I Agree
As a LONG TIME suffering fan, i can die content. I am now retired and living in Cabo, so giving up my season tickets, was not an option. Seems my retirement was well timed, LOL!!! I will STILL root for my Angels, and will be a proud Fan regardless of their won/loss record. GO ANGELS!!!!!
The Smarter I get, the More I Have To Learn
dude
just get someone to rub their re-entry stamp on your hand, thats what I do, then I buy them a drink once I’m inside. just be careful that you put it on the right hand, they do a specific hand each night. its also good to get someone right after they get stamped (just camp out by the exit of the DC) because that is when they are freshest.
and if you notice you only got a small portion of the stamp once they look at it under the black light, just tell them you washed your hands in the bathroom.
I know its shady, but it has worked for me every single time I’ve tried
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I know right?
the next problem you will run in to is finding empty seats that will stay empty. I always feel like a douche when people come back to their seats and I have to get up and find other empty ones. but its still worth it
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
but, the cool thing about the DC
is if you don’t wanna go immediately find new seats since a bunch of people probably just saw you get kicked out of seats that weren’t yours, you can just cruise inside to the bar, wait a few minutes and then go find new seats.
I was front row center for one of Tim Salmon’s final at-bats. I was standing up the whole time cheering, which really pissed off the people behind me. but I didn’t give a shit.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
I used to do that to get into Knott's Berry Farm
We’d pool our money and pay for one of our friends to get in, then transfer off of that one.
I think the record was 14 people off of one admission.
yeah
it works at amusement parks too.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
Only sometimes
I’ve seen a few stamps where they have “VOID” backwards on the original stamp, so if you press it against someone else, it shows up as VOID.
Never tried it though
The exact date of becoming spoiled was October 27, 2002
Winning a CHAMPIONSHIP felt so good after 40 years of futility, that we wanted to do it more than once…..
There's a key difference between what you hear now and typical bandwagon jumping
Most of us, myself included, are upset about promises gone unfulfilled by the FO in light of glaring needs. None of us are talking about abandoning the Angels and going to another sport or team. What we’re saying is: “will it be worth it for me to put in the effort/cash to get to the stadium instead of watching on TV or the web?” The answer after July of last year was a resounding no for a lot of us. Had I not bought tickets for Sept. games back in April, I wouldn’t have gone to them.
I don’t live near Anaheim any longer and work 40 hours a week. Getting there and back takes most of a day and costs most of a tank. $5 tickets on Thursday night don’t mean a whole lot to folks like me. A discounted ticket and beer to see an Angels team that can’t put on a show and win on any given night is actually less enticing to me than a more expensive ticket and beer to see a team that can do those things. It’s not the cost of the ticket; it’s the extra cost and effort required on my part in relation to the potential payoff in entertainment and satisfaction (wins).
Nobody I’ve seen is talking about going and rooting for the Dodgers or someone else. We’re saying it’s looking like a better time/money/effort investment to buy a box of Guinness at Costco and watch on TV or the internet. If I lived in the OC, my tune might be different, but I don’t and neither do a lot of fans new and old that Arte hopes to continue drawing to the stadium.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
Can we stop this whining about "promises"?
How the hell can an owner promise to bring any player over? Free agency is a two-way street and there are 30 teams a player gets to look at when deciding where they want to spend the next 3-7 seasons of their careers. All three of the Angels potential targets signed for significantly more than anyone anticipated. Even the MF’n Yankees got left out in the cold this time around. Think about it: to sign Beltre, Arte would have had to offer him a guaranteed $100 million just to compensate for the lack of state taxes in Texas. Do you think Beltre is worth that much? Really, will any of the free agents signed this year have anything close to an MVP type season over the course of their new contracts? They’re being paid like they should but in all likelihood they will be nothing more than solid contributors, just like they’ve been most of their careers. Let’s save the superstar dollars for actual superstars, mm K? Besides, there are still pieces that can be added before the start of the season to complement our superior pitching.
Which "actual superstars"
would you suggest? Also, I am extremely confused by your ramblings, because first you say Beltre isn’t worth $100M. Then you say, the free agents are “being payed like they should” then you say “let’s save the superstar dollars for actual superstars” Then you say “mm K” which gave me douche chills to have to re type. So are you arguing with yourself or what?
And further I’ll stop “whining about promises” when the chimps in the front office stop making them.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I was a bit sloppy in my response
What I meant was Beltre and Crawford are being paid like superstars when they really are just good players. I look at Hanley Ramirez, Teixeira, Miguel Cabrera, Cliff Lee, etc. as guys who are actually worth more than $20 million a year. And again, point me to where anyone in the front office made any actual promises and I’ll whine just like everyone else. We were outbid, it’s as simple as that. Shit happens.
As for “actual superstars”, after 2011 the following players will be free agents:
Albert Pujols
Rickie Weeks
Prince Fielder
Jose Reyes
Jimmy Rollins
Along with all these other players:
Jose Bautista
Aramis Ramirez
Josh Willingham
Coco Crisp
David DeJesus
Carlos Beltran
JD Drew
A lot more depth, just when we will have a lot more payroll room. I’m as disappointed as anyone with this offseason, but it’s not the end of the world. We will still field a competitive team this year, even if the moves being made aren’t especially sexy.
Well sue me
that there is only one best player in the game. Fielder, Weeks and not too long ago Reyes and Rollins are all better than anyone currently on our roster.
so thats makes them a superstar?
its not hard to be better than Kendrick, Callaspo or Aybar.
and how the hell is Willingham better than Kendry Morales?
you talk crazy mang
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought not a superstar meant
“the angels are trying to sign him and I don’t want them to”
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Well
most of those guys are comparable to Crawford, Beltre eta al….if we are still a market capitalist economy your whole point is contradicted by the fact that each will be looking for paydays we aren’t “interested” in paying. What’s more, we have guys like Morales and Weaver (Weaver is a real superstar), that will be asking for what we call in my business a pay raise. The 100m is bullshit, but I’m afraid it’s the new standard. so it goes to expect that we will have to declare whether or not we"re in or out. The superstar argument is pointless…imo
When I hire a CNC Programmer or Specialist,
I don’t really want to pay him 28.00 an hour. The problem is if I don’t he or she will laugh in my face and tell me to stick my lowball offer where the sun don’t shine.
See they can do that because someone else will give them that, that’s called prevailing wage
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Yes
and if anything despite all of the grandstanding this offseason is a wonderful lesson on the subject. Prevailing wage is called that, because it wins!
huh?
Carl Crawford isn’t a superstar, but Rickie Weeks, Josh Wiingham and JD Drew are???
wtf?
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
I would be friggin' shocked,
If we manage to sign any of the players on this list, after the wonderful job Arte and Co. have done this off season. I’ll admit it; my faith in the FO has been pretty shaken. From the idiotic statements made by Arte, the clueless maneuvering by Reagins, and our inexcusable pay raise to Mathis. And if we didn’t like the amount of money it would’ve taken to sign CC or Beltre, WHAT THE FUCK MAKES US THINK WERE GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY NEXT YEAR?!? There’s my F bomb for January.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Sure, as soon as they aren't made publicly
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 5, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
Link?
Aside from that Plachke article, can you please show me where these promises were made? Are we really going to hang on one (out-of-context) quote this whole offseason?
Does a promise have to be repeated to count?
Because the way I was brought up you meant what you said and you said what you meant. Maybe times have changed, but then again Im pretty sure Arte and I are from the same generation.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
So what should he have done to keep this promise?
Offer Beltre $20 million a year? Crawford $23 million? He already had to come out of pocket last season. Should he do that for the next 5 years, too?
As as buisnessman
He should have learned long ago not to make statements about his buisness that he cannot keep. Having a loose tongue will always get you in trouble. This isn’t grade school anymore and the real world tends to hold you accountable
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
by ArchAngel_7 on Jan 5, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fine
Even though he never said “promise”, you guys go ahead and believe what you want.
The real world also says you can’t always have everything your little heart desires.
The real world doesn't give a shit
if you said I promise. All it cares about is if you said you would or you wouldn’t.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
How isn't that relevant?
Especially when he’s never come out and said anything to really deny that he said it. I also seem to remember reading something from Reagins at the beginning of the Winter Meetings along the lines of “we’ll come back with somebody.” I did a quick search just now and couldn’t find a link, but I know I saw it.
I understand maybe these statements were made in the spur of the moment, but they were still made. I don’t even blame them for not paying $142 million for a guy who hasn’t even hit 20 HR. Beltre is sort of another story. What I do blame them for is saying things they couldn’t or wouldn’t back up. That generally isn’t a good way to do things in any aspect of life or business.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 5, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
They came back with someone... Downs and Tak- Double big splash!!!
Not what you were counting on?
Well how about Kendry Morales AND DAN HAREN!!! In Yo’ Face!
Wait, what? they dont count? WTF???
by Balls and Strikes on Jan 5, 2011 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
Will I ever not be an Angel Fan?
Not as long as they are in So Cal. I once sad that about the Rams and now I could not care less what they do. This is not because they suck, they did that allot here, it’s because they abandoned me.
I still have my banner hanging behind my desk at work. I still have my Downing Bobblehead sitting next to my Vlad statuette. I’m not going to stop hoping for them to win. I’m also not going to stop bitching when they screw up either
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Simply put when Arte said he would spend whatever it takes and then shit the bed.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
by hauldog on Jan 5, 2011 11:29 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Agree - its the OFF season
its the frickin’ OFF season. yeah, two of our most hated rivals won the OFF season. they can hoist a big whoop come February 1st, but winning the OFF season doesn’t mean a thing.
That’s why they play the games from April-October.
The Yankees won last year’s OFF season- what they win??
What did the Giants do last OFF season? anyone? any one?
We won the OFF season in 2004 when we signed Vlad and Bart – whoopee- 3 and out to the Red Sux.
We’re gonna go to battle in April.
Hop OFF and F’ OFF now if you’re waving the white flag now.
But i’m in in with Arte and Mike to do battle and WIN it in October, not January.
And this could be the 2nd most satisfying season ever if we can at least get to the play offs.
So suck it up and celebrate Bert’s election today – no use crying over some 3B that’s never seen a playoff game in his life.
by Rex Fregosi on Jan 5, 2011 11:46 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Trading for Granderson constitutes winning the offseason?
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Ah shit we didn't get Granderson either???
Don't call me Bugs. Although Bugs Bunny could do it all on the baseball field.
I haven't seen one person "give up" on the team.
Fans have every right to put this owner and GM on blast for having 2 horrible off-seasons (and jeff mathis!) while promising to “do whatever it takes”.
Step down from the soapbox.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 5, 2011 12:10 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
I may be upset but I haven't given up
it isn’t until the Fat Lady Sings or we stop posting the Knife Guy
It's more likely that the Fat Lady sings....
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Yawn
Yeah, cause to be a “true fan” you have to agree with every bone headed decision your team makes and go along with every thing they say and do, like a good German. How dare we be upset with inactivity and bullshit statements? It’s not like we pay our hard earned money to watch this team and sport their merchandise! Who are we to complain? We should all just sit back, occasionally wiping the drool from our chins with our official Angels bibs and enjoy the magic of exciting 3rd place Angels baseball!
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 12:12 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
this^^^^
It really makes me wonder about this site that so many posters here cannot tolerate a different point of view without making accusations and calling people names. So much for the Angel community
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
It's because this is what the Internet is for now
It used to be for porn, but now it’s become one giant pissing contest. The goons who are trying to feel superior by claiming to be"real fans" for not questioning the stupidity of the F.O. are just sad and angry individuals trying to attain some sort of superiority in their meaningless lives. Cause we are “fair weather fans” and “bandwagons fans” for questioning our owner’s moves and motives. It’s the true fans that will whip out their wallets and throw down their hard earned nickels and dimes to watch their team get the shit smacked out of them by the Baltimore Orioles apparently. And they will eat that feces with a giant spoon and an even larger grin, cause that’s what a true fan does…
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
??? how many is "...so many"?
Do you define “…cannot tolerate a different point of view” with "disagrees with your POV?.
I’ve had lots of disagreements with many members here over a variety of issues. Some have become heated, with multiple responses back and forth. Rarely have I thought the opposing member and POV were intolerant or accusatory.
As for name calling, there’s a small percentage that don’t have the gray matter to engage in reasoned discussion. That number appears to me to be relatively small, and Rev does a pretty good job of removing those members.
With any public forum, you’re view and opinions will be challenged. That actually makes for a stronger community – in this case, a stronger Angel community.
Is this part of a reasoned discussion?
But to everyone who is lamenting our sorry state and is vowing to give up on the team entirely, please take a step back, get some perspective, and shut the fuck up (there is my one for January).
That was the last line of the post this thread is under. I would not call that reasoned or not intolerant.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
the problem with that is
everyone’s perspective is different. put that into perspective before you tell everyone to shut the fuck up.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
He was
quoting from the post..
But to everyone who is lamenting our sorry state and is vowing to give up on the team entirely, please take a step back, get some perspective, and shut the fuck up (there is my one for January).
my bad
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 5, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
He is taking the statement out of context
The sentence he quoted, which notably begins with the word “but,” came after this sentence:
To make a long story short, I have no problem with those who want to vent about how you would have improved the team or what shortcomings you perceive heading into next season.
So, contrary to several comments above, I never said that anyone had to — or should — accept the party line, agree with management’s handling of the offseason, or be happy about our current state of affairs. Clover Black made a comment earlier in this thread indicating that he had not seen anyone give up on the team. I have. In fact, I have seen numerous comments in the past 24 hours in which fans have said that they will not attend games or even watch the team on TV because they only want to support a “winner.” Only Nate qualified these statements with extenuating circumstances like a substantial commute. Everyone else seems to think that this team is unworthy of their support, monetary and otherwise, because it is destined (in their view) to finish third.
The point of my original post is that we are one of the winningest franchises in the sport. Note to ArchAngel — this is in contrast to the Jokeland Raiders of the past decade, which were the least winning franchise in the NFL. Although I agree that there are many appropriate ways to react to the team’s inability to sign Crawford or Beltre — disappointment, anger, frustration, criticism — quitting on the team, in my opinion, is not one of them.
Ill chalk up your reaction to my comments on the Raiders
to your ignorance of their history. Never the less any attempt by you to claim that your entire thread was not an attempt to indict fans who have been angered by the FO decision making prowess or lack there of is somewhat disingenuous. You got pissed that people weren’t towing the company line and now you are lashing out at us for it.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
False and false
I am well aware of the Raiders’ long-passed winning history. Over the past two decades, and in particular over the past decade, however, the Raiders have been the laughing stock of the NFL. All of this is beside the point. You raised the comparison between Moreno and Davis, and I’m quite sure that if we put it to a vote, that comparison would be ridiculed.
I also wasn’t “pissed that people weren’t towing the company line.” Not only did I directly say that in the post, but I myself also expressed disappointment at the way this offseason played out in other threads yesterday and today.
by Brody on Jan 5, 2011 7:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well I am sure it would be here
Whatever. I come to express views and to read those of others but not to get into online fights. So im ridicules and a jackass. Might as well live with the spoiled angel fan moniker too. For what it is worth, my intent was not to insult on the level for wich you took it. Al Davis is in the hall of fame after all. I was just saying that if he could screw it up with his ego arte could as well.
Sothball accused me of being oversensative but somehow I feel that label was misplaced
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
That's one members comment at the end of a rather long post.
I asked you 2 questions above;
- In your view, how many commenters here do you believe fit into the category of “…so many posters here cannot tolerate a different point of view”?
- Do you define “…cannot tolerate a different point of view..” as simply disagreeing with your point of view?
You answered neither question. The reason I asked is because you seemed to use the last sentence of Brody’s post (which others have challenged below) to paint with a broad brush about a larger number of HHer’s.
THAT is what I have challenged. You can call that one comment in the post “intolerant” ( It certainly isn’t name-calling nor is it accusatory, 2 other characteristics in your comment above). I am not seeing how that projects to the greater HH community.
Either 1) Provide some percentage of the members you believe are intolerant and/or provide your definition of tolerance, or 2) Withdraw the comment.
I haven't bothered to count them
But In my last thread investing in the Future OR how not to blow a billion dollars and still win, all I attempted to do was show that signing well known players could be made to pay off. In that thread alone I got BBQ’d pretty hard. Some had good points. Some nitpicked over small aspects without actually attempting to judge the real point I was making. One basically called me stupid and acted like I had no business even posting the thought. It was so bad that Rev commented that the poster was violating the rules. Overall my experience has been that many (and no, I don’t have a percentage) people take offense at the slightest implication that I don’t approve of the teams direction. I do hope I have answered your question to your satisfaction
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
You don't have a percentage??
Better fire up that ol’ Excel spreadsheet. We likes the numbers ’round here.
Sothball. . .
ArchAngel is talking about ad hominem arguments. He’s not complaining about “your idea sucks”, he’s complaining about “you suck for having that idea.”
There has indeed been a lot of ad hominem attacks lately.
that is correct
And the lashing Im taking now is another example of it
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Lashing? What lashing?
I challenged your broad brush statement, but I didn’t get anywhere near calling you names, berating, chiding, dismissing, or (near as I can tell) exhibiting intolerance. I don’t see any other comments that demonstrate that attitude either.
FWIW, I thought your post on investing in the future was thoughtful. The challenges or disagreements didn’t seem to me to be any better or worse than comparable posts. Perhaps I haven’t looked close enough. Or perhaps you are over-reacting a bit?
Whatever the case, I hope you keep commenting and posting. There are a lot of us (a far greater number than the knuckleheads) that appreciate and respond to thoughtful analysis.
Well in this post I've been called a jackass
by another poster and in my last even after I attempted to defuse the converstaion I was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about and had my intellect questioned. If that wasn’t enough to reasonably put me onguard then maybe I am over reacting. It doesn’t feel that way to me though
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
It's because
instead of just saying: I’m disappointed we didn’t sign such and such, you say something like Arte doesn’t know what the hell he is doing. If he knew how to run a successful business, he would have signed that guy. I’d do a much better job of running the team.
by HungryHunter on Jan 5, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Oh and now your back
I never said he didn’t know what he was doing. I didn’t say that I could do better job. I did say I didn’t agree with his direction and I proposed a plan for going in another. I have also called him out for changing directions in word and deed.
We had this discussion on my last board and despite my attempt to end it before it became hot you kept coming back to insult me. Now you are back doing it again. I get it. You don’t like my posts and you do not respect me. Know that the feeling is mutual. Now please show a tiny bit of class and go bother someone else
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
I don’t even know you, how could I respect or not respect you. I understand that you want the Angels to sign all the best players, as I do. What I don’t like is for you to call out Arte Moreno for not spending enough when we have the 8th highest payroll in baseball and the team will likely be operating at a loss.
And if you are going to refer to me, even obliquely, I will feel free to respond to your posts.
by HungryHunter on Jan 6, 2011 12:59 AM PST up reply actions
So basically I'm not allowed to voice my opinion?
Let me put this as kindly as I can. This is, if I am not mistaken, a forum where people come to exchange views about Angels Baseball. It was my understanding that constitutional rights to free speech are more or less in effect and that basically the only rules of decorum here are a limited use of profanity and that we allow others to express their views.
Now, if I am correct and Rev please set me straight if I am wrong, attempting to censor what other posters are saying is a violation. As the only points you have made are to question my intelligence and to call me a wage slave it would seem to me that it is you who are in violation.
Now as I have posted I am an Angel fan of 37 years and as you have no authority over me I will continue to express my opinion. If it offends you, well sorry. If Rev tells me I am not allowed to do so I will of course respect his rules and go elsewhere.
I do hope we have that cleared up. Have a nice day, okay?
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
dude, I get your argument
but did you really just bring up the Constitution? just an fyi as an objective observer, you’re coming off pretty whiney in this comment.
Hungryhunter doesn’t agree with what you’re saying, and is letting you know that. other than that I don’t see much harm he’s made in what he’s said to you, besides referring to you as an armchair fan, which we all are.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Jan 6, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Of course you can voice your opinion.
And I can voice my opinion that your ideas are ass backwards and your idea that Arte isn’t spending enough is ass backwards. Show me one franchise in major league sports that continually operates at a loss which is what you are advocating. It isn’t sound business.
What was our payroll before Moreno came on board? In 2002: 15th, 2001: 21st, 2000: 13th, 1999: 13th
1990. Since Arte took over, payrolls have increased substantially, ranking in the top 5 until 2008.
I called you a wage slave because you don’t grasp the concept of what it is like to run a business and attempt to make a profit.
Lol...interesting, someone is relating this to their own life a little too much
I don’t suppose that it occurred to you that as a billionaire, Arte can afford to operate at a loss for awhile? His net worth is several times the entire value of the team.
You also conveniently ignore the fact that 30 million comes off the books next year and that I said in my post that it would start in the next year or two. I’m not really surprised as all of your responses have been screaming mimi fits of emo-rage.
I was wondering, have you seen a single blogger or credited analyst who doesn’t think this offseason was an abject failure on the part of the Angles? You know, one that isn’t emotionally or financially involved with the team? From what I have seen it is universally seen as a major clusterfuck. But you go ahead and keep telling yourself that it is not.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Anymore that usual? More than you'd find in any open community?
There are some members of whatever organization that are just plain old idiots. I’m sure I’m not telling you anything you don’t know…the best reaction is no reaction.
I’m sure you have seen my disagreements with others on a wide variety of topics. Rarely have I been the object of name-calling, accusations or intolerance.
What I initially reacted to was that rather broad brush,
so many posters here cannot tolerate a different point of view without making accusations and calling people names. So much for the Angel communitythat I just don’t see. Perhaps I haven’t paid close enough attention. Or perhaps ArchAngel_7 is a bit too sensitive and over-reacts?
Another post about it?
Be beating it death you are just proving my point.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
That was a response to rspencer.
And it was a comment, not a post.
I couldn’t have beat it to death without your help. Regardless, best of luck to you.
Sothball
I hope the above post that have since come will give you the answers you asked for. It was not my intention to engage in a flamming match with anyone, but sometimes the fight comes to you.
I hope we can start again on a better note.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Very much agree
While it was a mistake for Arte to make the comments he made simply because it backed him into a corner, I can’t believe the battering he is taking. Rooting for this team and going to games under his stewardship has been an amazing experience. Everyone knows we have holes to fill in our lineup, including the front office and they have shown the ability, for the most part, to make wise moves and investments and I trust them to continue to do so.
Free Agency always reminds me of a used car lot, you should always walk on the lot ready to walk away from anything that you don’t really love and that doesn’t completely fit your needs. This offseason the only thing to really love, especially for the price, was Cliff Lee but he didn’t really fit our needs, he would have been a luxury item for sure. Beltre and Crawford are ok, but more then likely you would end up feeling like you got a lemon for the price you paid. You step back and say i’ll live with what I’ve got until I find what I really want, or until the car just won’t run anymore, I definitely don’t see the Angels at that point.
I think Texas has an extremely strong lineup but their starting pitching without Lee is not overly impressive, the A’s have a lot of young pitching but I like ours better. I don’t think we are an overwhelming favorite to win the division as in the past but it wouldn’t surprise me if we do and then anything can happen as we saw last year.
I am looking forward to the opening of spring training.
by Rycat512 on Jan 5, 2011 12:49 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Nicely put
And I don’t disagree on most of your points. The only thing I would argue is that Arte Moreno deserves every single ounce of criticism he receives in this moment and time. When you make bold statements and don’t deliver, you have to be willing to eat the backlash.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jan 5, 2011 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
No doubt
The comments he made were not smart at all and I don’t have a problem with that being pointed out and Arte being held accountable for them. I was commenting more on the lack of perspective about what being an Angels fan was often like before he owned the team. To hear or read comments about how he should sell the team and the Angels need ownership committed to winning seems to lack a certain perspective about what he has done since he purchased the team. Granted these comments are a minority I’m sure.
They were the minority
If they are still the minority, they are a very vocal minority. I agree with everything you said in your two comments. Well said.
Not really
Moreno purchased the Angels from the Disney during the middle of the 2003 season. Unlike the 2002 Angels, which made the playoffs as a wildcard and then had a magical run to the championship, the 2003 team that Moreno inherited won 77 games and needed a major overhaul. Moreno provided that by signing Vlad, Colon, Escobar, and Guillen during his first offseason as owner.
I feel I have every right to be spolied...
Expectations are high for this club. I want them to perform at the level I know they’re capable of (FO included).
Simple answer when Arte said he would spend whatever it takes and shit the bed
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, the fact is Brody we are fielding the same team
get that, the same team as last year that was 80-82, thats right, a sub .500 team. I like the optimism that somehow this same group will be sprinkled with “magic fairy hitting dust” , but the reality is that our players are who they are and will not start hitting .425 and .700 with RISP. We have another season of watching .190 Mr Premium stroll to the plate and make us want to ram our heads into a wall. That is the reality, a little better bullpen, no better offense.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
As optimistic I would like to be, You are correct.
To go into this coming season having made no major changes and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity – doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result each time.
As far as being “spoiled” fans goes, maybe we agree, but i doubt we will be tee last fan base of a team to be spoiled in the history of Sport before the universe explodes or implodes or whatever it will do for a finale.
Yeah but also
We didn’t flush away $100 million for years of undeserving players in their 30s nor did we throw away our future by trading away top prospects
No we didn't flush away 100 million but I'm sure the Angels will sign
an aging vet for between 1 to 5 million for 1 to 2 years to be 2011’s version of Matsui. Will it be Damon, Posednik, ? who knows. I hate when they sign “Big Name” past their prime players, it is a tired and old marketing ploy that never delivers a championship, ask the Minnesota Vikings and the NY Jets. We don’t need to sign someone who will make the team any slower on the bases then they already are.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
and very nearly the same team as 2009.
by Balls and Strikes on Jan 5, 2011 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
Except that 2009 team is now 2 years older, 2 years slower, with one more broken leg.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
The Angels win/loss record and the number of times it made the playoffs in the past 10 years is superior to the other West Division teams.
Here is how you described it:
[The Angels] averaged nearly 90 wins per season, never lost 90 games, never had consecutive losing seasons, and never went more than one season without winning over 90 games. We made the playoffs 6 times, won the division 5 times (including 5 of the past 7), played in the ALCS 3 times, and won a World Series.
The Mariners made the playoffs once — as division champions in 2001. They lost in the ALCS, and then averaged fewer than 77 wins per season, including 5 losing seasons, 4 seasons of more than 90 losses, and 2 seasons of more than 100 losses.
The Rangers made the playoffs once — as division champions last year. They lost in the World Series. During the 9 prior years, they averaged 78 wins, and had 7 losing seasons and 2 seasons of more than 90 losses.
The A’s, meanwhile, made the playoffs 4 times and won the division 3 times. They advanced to the ALCS only once and got swept by Detroit. In the last 4 years, they had three consecutive losing seasons and the 81-81 finish last year.
Now, let’s take a look at the attendance figures for those same teams over the past four years:
2010 2009 2008 2007
Angels 3,250,814 3,240,374 3,336,744 3,365,632
Mariners 2,085,168 2,196,461 2,329,702 2,672,485
Rangers 2,505,171 2,156,016 1,945,677 2,353,862
Athletics 1,418,391 1,408,783 1,665,256 1,921,834
At the beginning of the post, you state: “I am incensed at all of the comments about how we deserve this or that, and still other comments to the effect that supposed fans will not support the team next season.”
I would argue that is just what happened to the Mariners, A’s and Rangers. Lack of a winning team = lack of support, i.e. attendance at games. I think it is a natural reaction by fans.
Consumers demonstrate their like or dislike of a product with their pocketbooks. Fans do the very same thing by deciding whether or not to attend a game or buy a souveneir.
No true fan should “give up on the team,” but when I decide to curb my attendance at Angels Stadium to passively voice my frustration, I wouldn’t call it being “spoiled.”
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Jan 5, 2011 4:54 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Interesting data
I note that the last-place Mariners had significantly more fans than both the Rangers and A’s last year. A more comprehensive look at attendance figures throughout MLB and over a longer period of time would be very interesting. I bet that teams that have had comparable success to us — the Cardinals and Twins — have had relatively steady attendance figures, even during their occasional down years.
I don’t disagree with your point about the power of the purse. The point of the post is that Angels fans have been treated to one of the best products in baseball, notwithstanding one, two, or several 80-win seasons.
by Brody on Jan 5, 2011 8:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
For the last 7 years, the team has had a discernible (and successful!) plan
Now, it does not. It’s really that simple.
+1
40 years as a fan…we always knew Disney was full of crap and it was all about brand for them but we were fortunate in 02’ to have everything come together with a $58mm payroll. Autry always did what he said he would even if we didn’t always like it. This team just wasn’t any fun to watch and now they’re trying cram a sequel down our throats and tell us it’s all good. This roster seems ill suited to execute the style of baseball that Soth clearly prefers.
I became spoiled on April 9, 1966.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
First game.
Exhibition versus the Giants. I could not attend. I had to play a Little League game that afternoon. But I could stand there in left field in my purple cap and shirt and see the glow from the stadium and know that grown-up baseball had come to my backyard.
Longtime fan of what has become the State College Angels of East Anaheim
My first game was a double header against the Twins.
We lost the first and won the second. By the time it was ending, the crowd was going nuts. It was the most exciting thing I had ever experianced. I don’t remember who played but both games ended 7-4. That was an amazing memory.
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
Great Post
Couldn’t agree more. Thank you for saying what needed to be said.
by AybarIsTheNewFiggy on Jan 5, 2011 9:40 PM PST reply actions
"Uhh yeah, GOLD might get you Jonas Brothers tickets. BLACK will have all three of them sucking your d***." Pat Anderson Assistant to the Assistant GM of Tampa
by DAD OF VLAD on Jan 5, 2011 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This is getting to be like the James Bond movies
Sequel after sequel after sequel
"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem".
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