2012 Free Agent Wish List
I was curious as to what are the favorite Free Agents us Halo Fans are wanting on our wish list this offseason. It seems that we are all so deflated from how the season played out and very eager to see how the front office retools itself, I haven't heard too many names thrown out other than the obligatory names that will command an ass load of money(i.e. Fielder, Reyes, CJ Wilson).
Offense:
As far as my wish list, the biggest need for our team is a middle of the order slugger. Not only do we not have a middle of the order presence but our guys with pop don't even have respectable On-Base Percentages (i.e. Trumbo, Wells). I also found out that Angels didn't have anyone this year in the Top 50 of MLB OPS leaders (On-Base plus Slugging %). In 2010 we had one with Hunter cracking the list at #50.
With that being said, I think making a good run at Fielder should be a priority since he has consistently hit as a middle of the order guy his entire career and has been in the Top 50 of MLB OPS leaders since 2007. He's a left handed bat in the line-up and will definitely make us a better team. Especially facing the Yankees and their short-porch in inevitable future post season match-ups.
Another Free Agent I like is Michael Cuddyer. He can play multiple positions, playing 1st, 2nd, and RF in 2011 and has played 3rd as recently as 2010. When I saw his stats, I would've envision him as a complimentary player to the team by splitting time at 3rd and RF. To my dismay, he had a higher OPS than anyone on the Angels last year with only Kendrick and Trumbo having a higher Slugging Percentage. Although he doesn't put up consistent HR numbers, he consistently gets on base with a career .343 OBP.
An interesting alternative to Fielder would be signing David Ortiz. He would be a cheaper Left Handed bat but would still bring a strong power presence in our line-up. He many not fit into the Angels plans with Kendrys' anticipated return but you'd have to image the Angels will target someone for a Fielder back-up plan. Big Papi wants out of Boston and I'm not sure the Yankees will take him.
Beltran and Aramis don't seem that intriguing as they are aging stars who want one last payday before they fade. I can't image the Angels signing Jose Reyes with a capable Aybar at shortstop and the surge of Trout who could easily become a Jose Reyes type offensive player with more pop.
Pitching:
You would also have to imagine with the work load that Haren, Weaver, and Santana put out last year someone will hit the DL. To sit pat will and let Jerome Williams, Tyler Chatwood, and Garrett Richards fill out the rotation scares the crap out of me.
I would love to see Mark Buehrle as an Angel. He can give the Angels innings as he's pitched over 200 innings for 11 seasons straight. He pitches with a fast tempo which is ideal for our defensive minded team. His ERA has always been respectable although he gives up a lot of hits. Not only has Buehrle said he's only looking for a 2 or 3 year deal, he also a won a championship to go along with his postseason experience.
Another possibility could be Jeff Francis. He has been injury prone to go along with a career 4.78 ERA but he made $2 Million with Kansas City and pitched in the World Series in the losing cause for Colorado in 2007. Inexpensive and could fill out the rotation as a number 5 starter with postseason experience.
Last but not least is the bullpen. I hate when the Angels sign relievers as they are always overpaid and underperforming with the Angels(i.e. Esteban Yan, Hector Carrasco, J.C. Romero, Justin Speier, Brian Fuentes, Fernando Rodney). But I would like to see the Angels go for Heath Bell. He has mentioned that he would want a 2 or 3 year deal and wants to live close to his native San Diego. I think a veteran mentor for Jordan Walden would be ideal for the Angels. Move Walden to the set-up role and have Bell close games. The back of the Bullpen would set up a lot nicer for the Angels with a Downs, Walden, Bell combo. Though Bell's strikeouts have gone down last season, his WHIP lowered from 2010. Not by much though.
Conclusion:
Obviously if we signed everyone I would like, our payroll would go even higher than last year but these are more brainstorming ideas and even more on the unrealistic side. Signing Fielder alone would cut the $40 Million that is coming off the books in half or more. Then there are all the arbitration cases and scheduled raises for Weaver, Haren, Santana, and Wells.
2012 Predictions: Trout and Conger will not be starters.
What Free Agents do you want to go for?
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Comments
My Prediction:
New GM will trade Bourjos and Conger for a great 4th starter, sign Derek Lowe to an incentive laden deal, leave the bullpen untouched and jettison Morales.
I don't know what I'd do if they trade Bourjos.
Besides Weaver, he’s the only one that brings excitement to the team in my opinion. And to watch him become a star with another team after my old favorite Napoli has done, I’d be pissed.
Seriously might have to become a Pirates fan and just keep my expectations nice and low.
I’d like to see them just sign Buehrle and leave the young guys alone.
I woke up in a great mood; I don't know what the hell happened.
by Monkeyspanked on Oct 14, 2011 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Max Scherzer would be a great fourth starter.
Napoli's 27th, 28th, 29th and 30th homers of the year (four more than Jeff Mathis' career total) rained down on Angel Stadium like knives from the ceiling.
You just made me depressed with that prediction.
I really hope none of that happens.
Bourjos and Conger for a back of the rotation starter?
So, is this is also a prediction that the new GM will be a Reagins/Soth puppet?
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
I don't think Rev meant a #4 starter. He meant a great arm to be our fourth.
Someone like James Shields, Matt Garza, or Chad Billingsley perhaps?
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 14, 2011 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Even better.
But I’d think that it would take more than Bourjos and Conger to get him.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 14, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Makes more sense.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
I can see Lowe...think Kuroda is more likely (and effective)
And think the Bourjos deal is a year away when Kemp is available in free agency
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Oct 14, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope that was a joke
I would hate that. I want the young talent to stay put.
by frosse on Oct 16, 2011 9:36 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
My Prediction:
The new GM will resign after 48 hours on the job due to the meddling of Soth refusing to not tender a contract to Mathis.
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
Here goes
1) Prince Fielder
2) CJ Wilson/Yu Darvish/Hisashi Iwakuma/Hiroki Kuroda…maybe Edwin Jackson. I don’t trust Williams/Chatwood/Richards over any signficant stretch either. I like it when the other team can’t score.
3) Ryan Madson or some other bullpen help (but not for stupid money). There may be some interesting trade and import options here as well.
4) Trade for a power-hitting 3B. I can’t believe I’m saying this…Kevin Youkilis, anyone? Word is Boston might be looking to move him. Mat Gamel is another name that comes to mind, although he hasn’t done much in the bigs yet.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
I would take Youk
I hate him, but I’m sure I could grow to love him.
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
Man I don't know. That'd be a tough one for me....
I hate him like I’ve never hated any other player. Even AJ, Bonds, Papsmear, etc.
I woke up in a great mood; I don't know what the hell happened.
by Monkeyspanked on Oct 14, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's only got one year left plus a club option
Wouldn’t be for long. If it meant whipping Texas, Boston and New York en route to a World Series victory, I think we could all get on board.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Oct 14, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Not understanding the hate for Youk on this site
Besides the fact that he plays for the Redsux, what has he done to warrant any hatred? I’m not trying to stir the pot here, I sincerely want to know. All I see is one of the toughest outs in the majors who takes his walks, hits for decent power, plays two positions very well and rivals Erstad in intensity.
Did he say or do something at some point to piss everyone off? Is it his ugly face? Or is it really just hatred for all things BoSux?
Everytime I see a call go against him, he acts like the biggest baby. I can't stand that.
Plus he’s got the worst batting stance around. I know that shouldn’t be a big deal, but it adds to the baby look to me.
I woke up in a great mood; I don't know what the hell happened.
by Monkeyspanked on Oct 14, 2011 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was gonna mention his stance at the plate, too.
But it seemed like such a petty thing, so I’m glad I’m not alone with that thought.
I meant the OTHER Howard!
Could you see Hatcher working with him??
Uh…Youk…your stance is…you’ve got this…the way you hold the….oh never mind, I need to go work with Trout
by frosse on Oct 16, 2011 9:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Have you ever looked at his face?
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
By that, I mean ugly is an understatement.
Although, if he came here and produced, I could probably get over it. That’s just a hard thing to say before it happens.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Everyone would, but we're talking about even uglier.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
It's gotta be the fact that he was a child actor.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 14, 2011 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
What was he in? Just commercials? IMDB doesn't show anything for him prior to 2004
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
He was in "Milk Money"
He played a school bully that stole kids’ lunches for about three seconds.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 15, 2011 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention he's made of glass
His last two seasons have ended in injury
Mark Trumbo: 2011 Rookie of the Year
by nicolasville on Oct 14, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Well.....I have to say....
…..and rivals Erstad in intensity.
ummm. No.
Pete Rose. Not Youkilis though.
I hate him too
but the only type of player that should be untouchable is the cancer in the club house type player.
Trust the Deception
by Rally Manatee on Oct 15, 2011 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions
He's not on my wish list mind you
But what would be the reaction of HH if we brought back Francisco Rodriguez?
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
His best days are behind him...
only if he took a 1-2 year deal. I don’t think he’d accept that.
Which one?
We had a few.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
by snowhor on Oct 14, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heath Bell or Ryan Madson.
If Heath Bell gets to free agency, it will likely mean he was not offered arbitration (as he said he would accept if offered). Translation, if Heath Bell is a free agent that costs no ompensation, he would have the highest value among the other free agent closers (K-Rod, Madson, Papelbon).
AND he wants to stay in Southern California.
by moralesforpresident on Oct 14, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Cuddyer too. Fielder should be our top priority.
Who I’d sign:
Veteran starter for the back of the rotation: Buerhle or Francis (1-2 Year Deal)
Closer: Lidge or Bell (2 Year Deal)
Catcher: Ramon Hernandez (1-2 Year Deal)
First Base Prince Fielder (Whatever he wants)
Utility and Right Field: Michael Cuddyer (2-3 Year Deal)
Who I’d Trade: Abreu, Trumbo and Izturis. Trade them for prospects, bullpen help, or a catcher if we don’t sign one.
C: Hernandez/Conger
1B: Fielder
2b: Kendrick
3b: Callaspo/Cuddyer
SS: Aybar
LF: Trout/Wells
CF: Bourjos
RF: Hunter/Cuddyer
DH: Morales/Wells/Cuddyer
SP: Weaver
SP: Haren
SP: Santana
SP: Buerhle
SP: Williams/Chatwood/Bell/Richards
RP: Bell
RP: Walden
RP: Cassevah
RP: Downs
RP: Takahashi
RP: Thompson
by Nashdiesel on Oct 14, 2011 10:22 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Fielder, Cuddyer, Buerhle, Hernandez, and Bell is way too much to expect
We need to temper our expectations. Adding Fielder would be a coup compared to our recent offseasons. I would be ecstatic if we signed him. Bell also would be great. Together they will cost more than $30 million per season, bringing the team near its current payroll already in 2012. Your suggested moves of signing Fielder, Cuddyer, Buerhle, Hernandez, and Bell would cost $50 or $60 million per season. There is nothing in the team’s recent history to suggest that this is likely.
Take Buerhle, for example. Of course it would be nice to have him as our #4 starter. Buehrle has 22.3 WAR in the past five seasons, an average of 4.4 per season. And his lowest WAR total in the past five seasons was 3.5. He is 32, turning 33 next season, and he has been making approximately $14 million per year. I expect him to get a three- or four-year contract worth $10-$15 million per season.
Right now, I am rooting for a middle-of-the-order bat (Fielder or Pujols) and no major mistakes.
+1
Right now, I am rooting for a middle-of-the-order bat (Fielder or Pujols) and no major mistakes.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Oct 14, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
We don't need Buerhle
He’s an example. We could aim much lower on the SP side of things and we’d be fine.
I do think we should sign a starter. I don’t think we need a CJ Wilson or CC Sabathia. We just need someone to eat innings.
I also think with creative trades of Abreu coupled with Izzy and/or Trumbo we can free up some payroll there.
I agree that we should sign a 4th starter
I think that we can count on one of Williams, Richards, or Chatwood, but not two of the three (or, in the event of an injury, all three).
We can save a few million dollars by trading Abreu. I believe that this will happen. Trading Izzy and Trumbo will not save us money. Izzy will make $3.8 million. Trumbo will make the minimum. For $4 million, it would be impossible to replace their production. The only way it would make sense to trade one or both of them is if another team took on Wells or Hunter in return — or gave us a legitimate player. I doubt that will happen.
The idea
is to trade abreu packaged with Trumbo. You can’t have one without the other. Nobody is obviously taking Abreu all by himself. Izzy is worth trading because he’s an extra middle infielder. We could get a lot of value there.
I could see a team trading for Abreu
If he were a free agent, he would have some value. Not a lot. But some. He probably would get a 1-year deal worth $2 or $3 million. Hence, I think we can trade him to a team for $2 or $3 million in salary relief. And it is up to the new GM to decide whether it is worth it to do that. From the team’s perspective, it might be best to keep him on the bench, just in case. But Abreu may not want that, and he might ask the team to trade him if that is its plan. In which case, we should move him somewhere he can play for the salary relief that we can get.
this
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
Fielder or Pujols
and CC or CJ
HELLO 2012 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!!
Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl Champs Tony Romo Super Bowl MVP
-Me, October 3,2011
All we need to do is sign
Pujols (to catch), Fielder (to play LF), CC, CJ, and Heath Bell. Am I forgetting anyone? Oh right, then we trade Callaspo and two scrubs for Longoria. Win.
I heard Grandrson is avilable, too
"id take 5th Dimention Wormhole Rivera over Wells any day of the week"
-clover_black
by the king of CERA on Oct 15, 2011 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I wonder what it would take to get him?
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 15, 2011 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Its becoming incredibly obvious that this organization is not going to spend too much money
Signing either CJ Wilson or Prince is not likely, signing both is laughable.
We are going to have to cope with the fact that a new GM will come in and immediately make moves to accommodate for the “return” of Morales and the logjam in the OF. As Rev said above this means the ignorant trade of Bourjos and a jettison of other talent to make room for Morales and Trout.
Although 2012 would be brutal financially for Arte, Prince is the best long term option to fix what is painfully wrong with this team: the inability to consistently drive in runs or get on base. 28 year old lefty power hitters who walk 100 times and hit near .300 come around once every 10-15 years. This is a rare offseason where Prince will not have a lot of suitors, will not be chased heavily by the Yankees nor the Red Sox, and should be wearing red and playing in Anaheim for opening day.
However the short sighted mentality and approach that “landed us” Vernon Wells will now cost us Prince Fielder. More likely than not the Rangers will re-sign CJ Wilson and might go hard after Fielder. If this happens then the AL West will have a competitive disadvantage for about 4-7 years in strong favor of the Rangers.
The front office needs to adopt this crazy, insane thing called “the internet” where things like “math” and “advanced statistics” live. If they did they would learn strange facts like how important being on base is, how Callaspo and Aramis Ramirez are basically the same in terms of value on field so its not needed to spend 18 million a year to get A Ram, how Vernon Wells’ road splits in ’09 showed exactly what player he actually was, how lineups should be constructed, why you should never get relievers multi-year deals, the list goes on and on.
Signing Prince Fielder will inevitably block Trout for another year. This is a sacrifice this organization needs to make. Trading Bourjos would absolutely be another indication that this front office has no clue whatsoever as to how to run a baseball team. The future of this team lies in an outfield featuring Trout and Bourjos, anchored by Fielder, and using strong pitching to impose our will on other teams. However its becoming increasingly apparent that the future will be Wells hitting clean up, Bourjos will be traded, a botched handling of Trout, and still no ability to develop or sign top tier offensive talent making us a contender for second place until Arte hopefully sells the team.
Its inexcusable that around 400 people on this website alone could step in and improve this team dramatically because they take the time to step away from “traditional baseball knowledge” and research actual formulas and numbers people far smarter than us have developed. Ignorantly not using every tool available is inexcusable and for our manager, GM, or front office to blatantly ignore advanced sabermetrics in favor of Lyle Spencer-like “shit Ive learned by watching eleventy-billion games from the bench/TV” stat approach is not only prehistoric, but fucking annoying.
The older I get, the more I learn, the more I hate how useless old rich people are at doing things correctly.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
by PhiSlamma on Oct 14, 2011 11:52 AM PDT reply actions 6 recs
Love that last line
The older I get, the more I learn, the more I hate how useless old rich people are at doing things correctly.
Looks like I found my new sig!
"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." ~ Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton
Angels 2011 W-L record with the alternate red jersey: 17-12
by blast21dave on Oct 14, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Inevitable is a strong overstatement
The team just fired or forced out four or five of its top executives, including the man responsible for the one move that everyone agrees was terrible. Without knowing who will be hired as the GM or to handle scouting, there is no basis to suggest that it is inevitable that Bourjos will be traded. Bourjos has played nearly every day since he made it to the big club in 2010.
There are a lot of problems to fix. They are not, however, unfixable. I agree with you that signing Fielder would be a great move for this club, presuming that he continues to perform as he has the past several years. With this team’s injury history, I would not worry about blocking Trout. If Fielder is in the middle of the lineup, we have an anchor, and the rest can sort it out. That alone, along with a back-of-the-rotation starter and a late-inning reliever for 1 or 2 years, would do a lot to improve the team in 2012.
Wells likely will be in the starting lineup next April. If he sucks like he did this season, especially at the start of this season, I would not expect him to remain in the lineup very long. Now that Arte has cleared the salaries of GMJ and Kazmir, he can afford to eat Wells’s salary for the next 3 seasons. He just can’t afford to have someone continue to make the same mistakes.
Even with injuries
Sit down and look at the 25 man roster. Add Fielder. Now try and find room with Prince to play Trout 120+ games. There simply isnt enough room unless we have multiple serious injuries.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
It depends on who is injured
First question — does Kendrys come back?
If no, then there are a number of ways that Trout could play. The most likely one would not even require an injury. It would merely require the team to trade Abreu and for Wells to continue to suck. In that case, Trout would take over left field, Bourjos would play center field, Hunter would play right field, Trumbo would play first base, and Fielder would DH. Or even in the absence of any roster move, if Kendrys does not come back and there is an injury to either Bourjos or Hunter, then Trout is right back in the mix. In that case, Fielder would DH, Trumbo would play 1B, and the remaining outfielders (Wells, Abreu, Trout, and the one who was not injured, Bourjos or Hunter) would share time at the three outfield spots.
Sure, Trout would not get his at-bats if we sign Fielder and if Kendrys does return. I still do not see any reason, however, to trade Bourjos in that scenario. Instead, Trout would start the year at AAA, and we probably would trade Abreu. That would leave Wells in LF (at least to start), Bourjos in CF, and Hunter in RF. The obvious odd man out would be Trumbo. He either would have to take away a starting job from Wells or Callaspo, serve as a platoon with Kendrys, or be traded. Any injury in this scenario would provide plenty of at-bats for everyone except Trout. That is not such a big problem, however, because he would get his at-bats in 2013 after Hunter and Abreu (and perhaps Wells) are gone. The upgrade in offense next season would more than compensate for this, and if Trout dominated AAA, he might just force his way ahead of Wells, Abreu, and Trumbo, regardless of what else happens.
Then the question is how healthy he is. If Kendrys is only able to DH, then Fielder has to play 1B. In that case, Trumbo is the one who is blocked, unless he can transition to either the outfield or third base.
First question — does Kendrys come back?
If no, then there are a number of ways that Trout could play. The most likely one would not even require an injury. It would merely require the team to trade Abreu and for Wells to continue to suck.
That alone assumes the jettison of THREE players. See what I mean?
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
That's one way of looking at it
On the other hand, Kendrys has not been in the lineup in a year and a half. Given that many many fans here consider it unrealistic to assume that he will be back, I think we can agree that his circumstances are unique.
Personally, I think that the team is likely to trade Abreu even if we do not sign someone like Fielder. Even if no such trade is made, Abreu could be moved to the bench (not jettisoned) so that the team, for once, has some depth.
And although there is little doubt that Wells will be in the starting lineup to start the year, the team is not going to stick with him if he performs as badly as he did last year. Recent history, with both GMJ and Kazmir, prove this.
In any event, it is one thing to say that there are not going to be at-bats for Trout. I might agree with you on that point. Trout very well could spend next year at AAA, barring an injury or two or such a strong performance that he forces his way into the everyday lineup. It is entirely something else, however, to suggest that it is inevitable that the team will trade Bourjos. One does not have to do with the other. Bourjos can and should remain in the lineup, and the roster will be less cluttered one year from now when Hunter and Abreu, at a minimum, are both gone.
Trade Abreu and sit Wells' fat $120+ million under-producing butt on the bench
and there’s plenty of room for Trout in the outfield
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
by mustard_man on Oct 14, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds good to me.
I’d be happy if we just benched VW and DFA’d Premium.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Nothing is unfixable
But it will probably take more than a year to fix the Angels. I hope Arte allows the new GM to take a mulligan on 2012. There’s only so much that can be done with the current class of free agents, especially with the kind of financial constraints left over from the Reagins Era. Gambling it all on the next season, when there weren’t any good available bets to make, is what landed the team in this mess. If things break right for 2012, then great, but 2013 should really be the target right now.
Agree with you here
This is what I have posted in other threads. The GM cannot be expected to win next season (at a greater rate than the team did this season), unless the payroll is increased significantly. The goal should be 2013, after we are free of the salaries of Hunter, Abreu, Takahashi, and Izturis. The GM will have way more to spend in 2013, especially if one or more of Aybar and Kendrick are let go in free agency.
Even if they jack up the payroll
There just isn’t any space on the roster, unless they start to DFA guys. All the good players make reasonable amounts of money, so they’re not going to find better on the open market. It’s the mediocre-to-bad players that earn the paper. Arte could release Hunter, Wells, and Abreu and try to re-tool the offense around something like Fielder, Willingham, and Trout, but there’s no way he just burns $90 million in salary commitments like that.
The only move that (1) clears roster space (2) clears payroll and (3) makes the team better is non-tendering Jeff Mathis. As awful and talentless as he is, that still won’t be nearly enough.
Arte isn't going to do DFA half the offense
But I don’t think he needs to. The team could DFA Mathis and sign Fielder without DFAing anyone else. Just by doing that, the offense would improve significantly, regardless of whether Kendrys returned. And Abreu could be traded for modest value or salary relief or moved to the bench.
Scenario 1 — Kendrys does not return
CF Bourjos, 3B Callaspo, DH Fielder, 1B Trumbo, RF Hunter, 2B Kendrick, LF Wells, Ca Conger, SS Aybar
Scenario 2 — Kendrys returns
CF Bourjos, 3B Callaspo, 1B/DH Fielder, RF Hunter, 1B/DH Morales, 2B Kendrick, LF Wells, Ca Conger, SS Aybar
In this scenario, Trumbo would start 100-120 games at 1B, DH, and the corner outfield spots, taking starts from Kendrys, Wells, Torii, Prince, and even Bourjos (with Wells playing CF and Trumbo and Torii playing the corners on those 10 or so games).
In either scenario, Trout would open the season in AAA and remain there until he forced his way into the lineup and/or Wells forced his way out of it.
No, Arte will not DFA half the offense
Wells is what’s screwing everything up. I do not believe that Arte will be willing to bite the bullet on his contract for some time. He ate $14 million with Kazmir, $20 million on GMJ, but he’s not going to toss $60+ million on Wells. He’s going to be on the team for at least two more years.
Perhaps
For the record, it was 2 years and $23 million with Matthews. And I agree with you that Wells is what is screwing everything up and that he will be the starter in April. If he still sucks at the All-Star break, however, I do not think he will keep his job. And I would not be surprised to see him DFAed with two years left on his contract.
Arte got $2-3m cashback on the GMJ to the Mets transaction.
Almost as much cashback as he got for the worst contract in baseball.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
He should have charged V-Dub to his Chase Freedom card
More cash back on every purchase than the leading competitor.
by Suboptimal on Oct 14, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And if opened a checking account with direct deposit at the same time, he could have received another $300.
A few more trades like this and the team’s accounting department would start producing monthly financial reports that merely read, “deficit, schmeficit.”
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
That's a good measure to show how pathetic our team is.
You identified Hunter, Wells and Abreu as half of our offense.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Plus Mathis
Yes, sadly, four of the nine spots in our lineup this year (nearly half) were for Wells, Hunter, Mathis, and Abreu. Hopefully next year will be different.
I would have zero problem with the dinosaur mentality
If it weren’t so effing expensive! Bring in someone competent please.
That's kind of like saying
It’d be awesome if dinosaurs still ruled the earth, except that I can’t outrun a velociraptor.
Also
Fielder is a player I firmly believe that we’ll regret signing in a few years. I know his numbers don’t lie, but he’s 28 years old and he’s SO heavy. He’s only going to get older, bigger, and slower. I feel like he would start to decline in the 3rd year of his new contract.
Thats fine
If Prince STARTS his decline in his 3-4th year of 6-7 year contract that means we get elite, top tier production for half of his contract. As long has he does not fall off a cliff then we would still have a suitable DH for 3 years, and we can always tell him to stop being a fatass.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
6 or 7 year contract seems conservative
I would think 8 years and $180 million or thereabouts (Teixeira money). Prince is the same age as Teixeira when Teixeira signed his contract. Teixeira’s WAR totals in the three years prior were 3.8 in 2006, 5.0 in 2007, and 7.3 in 2008, for a total of 16.1. Prince’s are 6.4 in 2009, 2.7 in 2010, and 5.2 in 2011, for a total of 14.3. Teixeira has an edge of 0.6 per season, but with the way salaries increased last season, I don’t know why we should expect Prince to get much (if any) less than Teixeira did.
I doubt he'll get that nearly much
Scouts really despise his body type, with some justification. Teams are going to see him as a DH, and DHs have gotten hammered in the market lately. When you consider that most people believe that the Yankees regret the Teixeira deal, I don’t think anyone outside of New York or Boston will come anywhere close to the same offer for a player with no defensive value.
Agreed
While his annual value may be very high his deal will most likely be in the 6-7 year range due to his body type and poor defense.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
I'd be surprised if he got even six years
My guess would be along the lines of 5/100—higher annual salary with less long-term risk. I’ve been kind of neutral to the idea of going after Fielder, but I could definitely be down for something like that. Then again, you never know when some idiot GM like Mike Rizzo is going to throw a bazillion dollars at a free-agent player he once scouted in high school.
Moreover
Both Boston and NY were in on Teixeira. Neither will be involved with Fielder, in all likelihood. Nor will Philadelphia or the Dodgers. And maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that Theo Epstein’s first order of business for the Cubs will be signing Fielder. But really, apart from the Cubs (and the Brewers, of course), who’s really going to want to go all-in on Fielder?
Look at the Nats last year
Who thought that they would set the market by paying $126 million to Jayson Werth? But they did. Last year, everyone assumed that we would get both Crawford and Beltre — at discounts no less — because no other team would be interested and have room for them. We got neither because the Red Sox signed Crawford despite what appeared to be a crowded outfield and because the Rangers signed Beltre despite what appeared to be a logjam at third base and DH.
If Ortiz leaves Boston, as it appears he will, the Red Sox very well could be in on Fielder. Who knows what the Yankees will do? And there are always random teams that come up with huge bids. Texas could make a huge bid. We have no idea. I just would not get your hopes up and assume that any star player is going to come to us cheaply.
Speaking Only for Myself
Of course, you’re right about the Nats & Werth, but I figured there would be other suitors for Beltre (though admittedly not Texas) and Crawford (I don’t see the crowd in the Boston OF to which you refer).
My bet is that Ortiz does stay in Boston. If he doesn’t, though, and Fielder does go there, the Angels could do a lot worse than to add Papi’s bat on a short-term deal. The guy can still hit.
I really, really don’t see the Yankees being a player unless they can convince MLB to add additional DHs to the lineup, as they’re bound to both Teixeira and A-Rod for the foreseeable future, and they’re reticent to put Montero behind the plate.
You're probably right about the Yankees
As for the Red Sox last season, they had Ellsbury, Drew, and Cameron heading into the season with, it was presumed, competition coming from Josh Reddick and the HH legend Ryan Kalish. Most people here were shocked that they went so hard after Crawford, and many then thought that they might flip Ellsbury to us for Napoli. If only that had happened….
If Only
indeed.
I never expected Boston to put its eggs in the Reddick/Kalish basket, and Cameron was coming off a horrific injury.
Re: "many then thought that they might flip Ellsbury to us for Napoli"
I don’t think many then actually thought this.
Just because someone brought it up, declared he was right and everyone else was wrong and then the discussion expoded from there doesn’t mean people bought into it.
If that’s how things really worked, we’d all believe Trumbo is our new third-basemen and Morales is going to tap dance 35 times on homeplate this year without crippling to the ground.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
For many that accepted that Napoli would eventually get traded
Ellsbury in return was the fantasy rather than the expectation of a deal.
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
"Thought" was the wrong word
Many speculated that they might flip Ellsbury to us for Napoli. I thought it was possible and was hoping for it. If I recall, the rumor actually originated on one of Boston’s fan sites.
I thought it originated in Halowood's brain.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Brody is right
It’s too logical to talk about Prince’s body type and whether or not he’ll age gracefully. Pujols and St. Louis will likely agree quickly to a new contract, and then some owner will get stupid and throw money at Prince. It happens every year; 2011 / 2012 will be no different.
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
BTW
28 years old for a free agent of his talent level is extremely rare and awesome. 28 is young, broheim.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
And the possiblity of having Morales and Fielder as your meat and potatoes for years to come?
Not a bad starting point if all they did this offseason was sign Fielder and by some grace of God, Morales returned to form….
CF Bourjos
2nd Kendrick
RF Hunter
1st Fielder
DH Morales
LF Wells
3rd Callaspo
C Mathis
SS Aybar
They'd have some heavy hitters at 4 and 5
I think Morales needs to bat 4th and Fiedler 5th though since Prince can’t be the “meat” since he’s a vegetarian. I’m sure he’d much rather be the “potatoes”
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
trumbo at 3B
we can dream…
"id take 5th Dimention Wormhole Rivera over Wells any day of the week"
-clover_black
by the king of CERA on Oct 15, 2011 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Trumbo at third base
would require him wearing shin protectors, chest protectors, and the building of a dirt berm behind him….and the over/under on errors for the season would still be > 50.
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
Numbers say he was a pretty good defensive 1B
Odd but true. As for 3B, I don’t care how bad he’ll be.
Bat + Hell of an arm = Troy Glaus
Except
Glaus got on base. The value we get with Callaspo’s glove at third plus OBP skills > what we’d likely get out of Trumbo at third.
I can't believe people would rather Callaspo
in the order instead of Trumbo in a line-up that desperately needs his kind of production. Yes, Callaspo is productive but Trumbo was arguably the team’s MVP this season he can only improve with his OBP (can’t get much worse).
Is that what I said?
Please present an example in all of history where a career first baseman suddenly goes across the diamond to third (Youkilis only ever played first because of Mike Lowell). As great as his power is, Trumbo’s awful on base and contact skills nearly kill any value he brings with his power. Move him up the defensive spectrum and he’ll leak so many runs that he’d be considered a negative value player. It’s reasonable to expect his OBP to improve a bit, but totally unrealistic to think he’ll ever have even average plate discipline, at least over the next couple years.
Callaspo hits enough that his superior glove would make him more valuable at third than Trumbo. Beltre was our only realistic shot at improving third and they blew it. If Fielder or Pujols come this way, Trumbo becomes trade bait.
by dmhead on Oct 15, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trumbo: .327 wOBA / 105 wRC+ / 2.3 WAR
Callaspo: .330 wOBA / 107 wRC+ / 3.6 WAR
For all practical purposes, the two of them generated identical amounts of offense last season, but Callaspo added more value because of the positional adjustment. There’s also no reason to put much faith in Trumbo’s positive UZR at first base, since it’s so unreliable in season-sized samples. It’s not fair to shit all over the rookie, but how much better are his defense and plate discipline going to get at age 26?
He’s totally expendable, in my opinion. If Morales can still swing it—which is admittedly a big “if” at this point—Trumbo can’t add value anywhere else on the diamond. Hopefully we’ll soon have a sagacious GM who can realize that Trumbo’s home-run potential is over-valued relative to his other qualities. One of the lesser GMs in the league could probably be convinced to give up something really good for him.
by Suboptimal on Oct 15, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still think we desperately need his power
Just him alone wasn’t enough to get us to the post-season this year. But If we have both him and Morales in the line-up in 2011 that would be dangerous.
We do need power, but not at the expense of one of the few hitters on the team that can get on base.
LF and DH are our problems. Jettisoning productive players while we keep the expensive ones is how we will remain an offensively struggling team.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Maybe Pujols can play 3B
Also, none of us have seen him at 3rd (or heard anything outside of his brutal 2 game stint in rookie ball).
He wasn’t great at 1B in the minors but this season put up defensive numbers very similar to Morales in ’09.
I just think it’s unreasonable to think that he can’t learn the position.
It has nothing to do with learning
and everything to do with having the physical skill set to be able to play 3B. He doesn’t have the range or quickness required out of a third baseman. Trumbo is destined to be a 1B/DH type guy that could possibly play a below average RF. Defense matters.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Huh?
Anyone that watches him play that knows the game can tell you he can’t stick at 3B. If Trumbo was good at 3B, he would have been playing there. You don’t stick guys at a position like 1B if they can play a solid 3B, 2B, or SS because all of those positions are much more valuable and harder to find offense at. If a guy can play 3B, then he can play 1B.
Troy Glaus was a SS at UCLA btw. Glaus was a much better candidate to play 3B than Trumbo.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Again, I'm not saying he would be good at 3B
And I’m not saying I don’t appreciate guys who get on base, personally, I love Callaspo because he walks more than he strikes out. In fact, he doesn’t strike out all that often at all. Pretty rare.
But I just think that have two big bats on the corners in the same line-up would be a huge plus to a team that desperately needs more offense.
Furthermore, none of us have seen him play 3B. If they stick him at 3B next season and if he sucks as bad as people swear he will, then fine, I’ll be the first to admit that it’s a bad idea. But until then, I still relish the idea.
If I had it my way, we would have Beltre blocking him from getting playing time. But obviously, that ship has sailed.
You really don't have to stick him there to find out if he'll suck
It’s already obvious by watching him man 1B. Don’t get me wrong, Trumbo is an above average defensive first baseman, but so are Teixeira and Pujols and nobody in their right mind is calling for them to become third basemen. I feel like too many people look at Youkilis and think the same can be done with other first basemen without realizing that Youkilis was originally a third baseman.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Those guys aren't third basemen
Because they are top first basemen on their teams and because they’re getting up there in age. Trumbo is still young.
Also, none of those guys would ever get displaced by another player. Youkillis would’ve never been moved to 3B had it not been the fact that he was displaced by A-Gon.
Like Youkillis, Trumbo is getting displaced because, obviously, Morales is the better first basemen. The sox had to move Youkillis to 3B in order to keep him in the lineup.
I don’t think Trumbo would become a Youkillis but, like Youkillis, they do need find some place to put him to keep his bat in the lineup and 3B is the only logical place barring a trade.
Kevin Youkilis 341 games 3B in the Minors
Mark Trumbo *drum roll
0 games at 3B
Do you really need to see it for yourself?
If he could have done it, it would have been in the Angels’ interest to play him at 3B ever since they first drafted him, and yet his performance in the field never even gave them a reason to experiment with the idea until last winter. When they did, he committed five errors in two games.
By the same logic, maybe they should try Mike Trout out at catcher. He already plays his position well. He’s still young enough to learn. And hell, I’ve never actually seen him commit an error at catcher, have you? Wouldn’t it be worth it to get his bat in the lineup, instead of Jeff Mathis?
I doubt Trumbo is going to be displaced by Morales.
Morales will DH if he comes back.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
How Many Times
Does the silly Trumbo-at-3B meme have to get repeated around here? They already tried it. It didn’t work.
He tried playing 3B in winter ball last year and he made errors on about half of his plays at 3B. That’s a slight exaggeration.
Trumbo can’t play third. Period.
Move along; nothing to see here.
Considering he talked about doing it in August
and he said he was willing to try it again, its gonna keep coming up
I play music for your entertainment
by Seik1177 on Oct 17, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Umm...no
Bourjos, Howie, Callaspo, and Aybar were all much more valuable than Trumbo this season. Looking purely at numbers like HR’s and RBI’s is exactly the thought process used by Reagins that got us into this mess. Unless you were a Reagins fan, I find it hard to believe someone would be in favor of using his shortsighted method of evaluating players. If Reagins would have payed attention to Wells’ OBP and basically everything that wasn’t HR’s, there’s no way we end up with Wells and his atrocious contract. While Trumbo’s HR’s were a nice addition to the Halos this year, his propensity to be one of the biggest out makers in the AL was not. Unless Trumbo makes a huge effort to develop some semblance of plate discipline, he will never be the type of player that the Angels should ever consider sacrificing defense to get into the lineup.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm more concerned about RBIs
That fact that he can drive in runs is undoubtedly important. In the 7th spot or the 5th spot.
Don’t bring Wells into this, it makes me sad and we all know this was a bad trade from the start. Although, if Wells were as cheap as Trumbo and if we didn’t have to sacrifice Napoli (would’ve been so nice to have him at 1st this year), Wells nor Reagins wouldn’t have been involved in the conversation. Speaking of which, I figure someone who values defense as much as you do would’ve been stoked about Wells coming over. But Mr. Gold Glove wasn’t spectacular there either.
If your concerned about RBIs, then your focus should be on getting more hitters with high OBPs so there's someone on base for others to drive in.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
RBIs, huh?
And as far as Wells’ defense I would certainly hope you realize that Gold Gloves are worthless. Derek Jeter has won the Gold Glove how many times now? Vernon Wells wasn’t anywhere near a premium CF when the Angels sent Napoli and Rivera to Toronto. Look at some advanced defensive metrics ffs, instead of awards voted on by the coaches. Wells has been a below average CF since 2007 according to every advanced defensive metric.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
RBIs
If you ever needed proof of the unreliability of RBIs as a stat look no further than Barry Bonds. Was it Bonds’ fault that when he was having perhaps the best offensive seasons ever that he drove in fewer than 100 runs? We’re talking about a guy that put up a .362/.609/.812 slash line and only drove in 101 runs while crushing 45 HR’s.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
And?
Who would you rather have? Bonds with that slash line, or a player that hit 60 HRs and drove in 140 runs.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
AND
A lot of those walks were intentional and many more were because they pitched around him.
Are you kidding, why the hell wouldn’t you want a player that hits 60 HRs and drives in 140 runs?! That’s a hell of a lot of production and he would still have a hell of slash line either way.
Besides, Bonds isn’t the best example because he was a rare hitter that could do just about anything. I would trust Barry more with driving in runs than any one else behind him.
It doesn’t matter if you have players that can get on base if you don’t have bats like Trumbo who can bring them in.
The player with the Bonds slash line
Is much more valuable than the guy that hits 60HRs and drives in 140 runs, but never walks and makes tons of outs when he isn’t hitting HR’s. Getting on base is vital to the success of a team and getting on base over 60 percent of the time makes you more valuable than a guy with 15 more HRs and 40 more RBIs that gets on base at a significantly lower rate.
Would you take the guy with the .260/.310/.520 slash line that hit 60HRs and drove in 140 runs over a guy that hit .280/.580/.740 that hit 45 HRs and drove in 100 runs?
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
A guy who hits
60 HRs and drives in over 140 is most likely going to have a slash line better than .260/.310/.520
I mean come on, .310 slugging?
In Bonds' case you don't see much of a difference for what?
Who would you rather have: .280/.310/.520 60HR’s 140 RBI’s or .280/.580/.740 45HR’s 100 RBI’s over the same amount of games played?
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
If you have a lineup packed with players that get on base
Then why wouldn’t they get on base with runners on base? You act like a player that gets on base at a super high rate will suddenly stop getting on base once there are runners on base.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
There is some level of clutch in baseball, but
In most circumstances players have very similar numbers with RISP over the course of their career that they do with the bases empty.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't worry about the weight issue.
Arte could sign Fielder and Sabathia, open up a Home Town Buffet in the stadium parking lot and see greater profit than any new TV deal would bring.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Good point.
Make it a Del Taco instead. That way, he can make back some of Reagins’ salary, too.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
I bet the new Special Assistant to Chairman Dennis Kuhl is already working on this.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Nope - they'd hang the "closed" sign in the window
as soon as either drove up…
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
Its becoming incredibly obvious that this organization is not going to spend too much money
We are going to have to cope with the fact that a new GM will come in and immediately make moves to accommodate for the "return" of Morales and the logjam in the OF. As Rev said above this means the ignorant trade of Bourjos and a jettison of other talent to make room for Morales and Trout.
Do you have some insight into this that I haven’t seen yet? I realize the budget probably won’t increase much, but we still have room to buy one big FA.
Especially the second quote, why do you think the team is going to do that? We haven’t even hired a GM yet.
Damn, bro
The whole time I was reading this, I was waiting for a picture of jigglypuff kicking Reagins in the balls, or a booze-induced rant about donuts and home runs. I still think you should have included those things, but this is, like, one of the best things you have ever written…the last two parts especially.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Oct 14, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
wow so very well said
This team is so frustrating to watch. So much raw talent (big market revenue, good solid core of players) but an inability to augment the roster with smart sound free agent acquisitions and trades is the death of this team. Well that and Mike Scioscia’s damn flowcharts…….
Jim Bowden on Tony Reagins.
Style: Authoritative, brilliant baseball mind who works well in the trifecta with owner Arte Moreno and manager Mike Scioscia. Builds teams on pitching and defense up the middle. Active at trade deadlines, will trade prospects and has the resources to acquire All-Stars
At this point especially
I really wish they never traded for Wells. It be really nice to have that extra $60 million for the next 3 years to dedicate to actual talent for once. Not to mention that he’s going to cock block Trout for the next few years.
Not in 2011
Napoli would likely have played 1B the entire season, granted they had no idea at the time that Morales would be out the whole year. Not sure where that would put Trumbo in 2011 but Vernon is still a cock blocker and a worse one than Napoli.
Indeed
It’s pretty obvious that if Napoli had stuck around Mathis would have still caught the majority of the games and Napoli would have played first. Napoli is a much better hitter than Trumbo, but we would have still been stuck with the disaster that is Jeff Mathis.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 14, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Napoli & Beltre

Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Oct 14, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Napoli ... is he available?
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Oct 14, 2011 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Jose Reyes
From my perspective, it’s useless to speculate about who the Angels should sign, who they should trade, and for whom, until a GM has been hired.
That said (and I might do a Fanshot on this once a GM is in place), at this point in time, I think they should make Reyes their prime target. I didn’t think they Angels should have traded for him, but signing him as a FA make a lot more sense.
But we have Erick Aybar, you say. Well, Aybar will be a free agent after the 2012 season, and is therefore about to get a lot more expensive. I don’t think he’s worth a long-term, big money deal. At his best, Aybar is about (109 OPS+, 4.7 WAR) as good as Reyes’ average (career 106 OPS+, 29.2 WAR in 9 seasons) year. Aybar is only six months younger.
Sign Reyes, trade Aybar for a bullpen arm & prospect.
Yes, I’m aware of the existence of Jean Segura. I am also aware that he has a hard time staying healthy, and posted a .758 OPS in the hitter-friendly California League, and that it would be unrealistic to expect him to be ready before 2014.
But he, too, still has value as a trading chip.
I don't think signing Reyes is necessary...
…Trout is looking like he’ll be that Reyes type player with more pop. No need to spend cash on a OBP type guy. We need someone to drive Trout and Bourjos in when they get on base.
Do we really want to see Reyes get on base so Wells can pop out to the infield on the first pitch?
Did I Just Read
That a team that finished 11th in OBP doesn’t need to add OBP?
I’m a Bourjos fan, but his .327 OBP is simply league average.
I agree that our team has a OBP problem...
…but throwing 20 Mil plus on a top of the order guy would be better served for a high OPS guy like Fielder. You’ll get OBP & SLG.
Our team only has one bullet in the Offseason Big Splash gun.
SLG too
Don’t get me wrong, the Angels also need SLG (i.e., someone to drive in runs) as well.
But again, trying to fix everything for 2012 seems foolish. Looking ahead a few years, thinking bigger picture: who’s going to play shortstop? They’re going to have to do something. Are you willing to commit to Aybar long-term for a lot of money? Will someone better than Reyes and Aybar be a free agent after 2012 [honestly asking; I’m not sure]?
Honestly...
…I just don’t see Shortstop as a need to upgrade. This is just my opinion but Aybar is a great defender and he holds his own as a major league hitter. I would sign him to an extension(and Howie). I’m not talking huge money here but they’re not the problem with the team and its production issues.
We do have huge holes at DH and 1st. Who’s going to be playing in those positions for the future? Abreu’s bat has diminished completely and who knows what will come of Kendrys Morales. Plus Trumbo had an OBP sub-.300 which is horrible.
I think by signing Reyes you are, effectively, signing Aybar to a long-term deal
Yes, Reyes is better, but he’s also more injured. Take away his crazy lucky BABIP last year and you’ve got another impatient middle infielder with mediocre power, an average glove, and lingering hamstring problems. It’s a marginal upgrade with a dramatic leap in cost.
How Dramatic
after 2012, though?
In other words, do you think they can keep Aybar for a fraction of the price? Or are you really convinced about Segura?
I used to see Reyes as basically an “Aybar-plus,” but I’m starting to come around.
As for his health issues, Reyes has tended (except in 2009) to play about as much as Aybar.
I can't imagine Aybar commanding a huge contract....
he’s only making $3 million this year and by the time he is a Free Agent(end of next season), he won’t get more than 8-10 Million a year.
but how much more
will Reyes cost? I don’t see him getting a $20M/year deal. But I could be totally wrong. I don’t think he’s worth that much, but right now (and I might change my mind) I’d rather have Reyes for $15M/year than Aybar for $12M/year.
Reyes is projected to get Crawford money...
…teams are willing to pay him over $20 million a year for contract length closer to 10 years.
Reyes probably averages 4 WAR per season for the next few years
That’s not such a large advantage over other offerings that I’d be willing to risk a five-year marriage at $15-$18 million per season. Aybar, maybe. Segura, maybe. I haven’t given the Angels credit for much lately, but acquiring slap-hitting middle-infielders with solid gloves is something they seem to do well. Too well.
What's up with all these crazy scenarios?
The Angels don’t have many open spots in the lineup unless they make some trades. How about the Halos extend Howie, look to trade something of value for some young live arms that might be useful out of the pen, and look to upgrade at the #4 spot in the rotation. We really have zero needs anywhere offensively besides behind the plate or if you decide to make a trade for a power hitter at 3B. Conger should be able to fill that void behind the plate and Callaspo was extremely productive at 3B, especially when you factor in salary.
One of the biggest failings of the Angels player development has been its inability to develop legit young arms to work out of the bullpen other than Jordan Walden. Hopefully that changes next year when David Carpenter is given a shot. I feel like the Angels have the opportunity to deal from a position of strength once the season begins if Morales proves to be healthy. The Angels can then move Trumbo for some young live arms to use out of the bullpen or the back end of the rotation. A lot of that well depend on our GM and his/her philosophy. If our new GM is a huge believer in OBP then I think Trumbo becomes the odd man out.
Zero needs anywhere offensively besides behind the plate?
If the team needs to improve anything, it is the offense.
I guess I did a poor job articulating my point, Brody
I didn’t mean that the Angels don’t need to improve offensively, just that with current contracts and current players there aren’t too many spots that are currently open. The Angels already have a huge logjam in the outfield. They’re also set at 1B (Morales, Trumbo), 2B (Howie), and SS (Aybar).
The Halos could obviously look to add a power hitting third baseman, but the only players worth pursuing would have to be acquired via trade. It would be incredibly stupid to sign Aramis Ramirez as a FA, when the Halos have someone just as productive and even more valuable when you factor in defense in Alberto Callaspo. Aramis Ramirez is most likely the worst defensive third baseman in baseball. It’s unfortunate that the Angels missed so badly on Adrian Beltre, but there’s absolutely no reason to panic again and make another horrid signing. That leaves the Angels with catching being a possible upgrade, which I think would also be dumb since Conger hasn’t been given an opportunity yet. Any good young catcher worth acquiring is a good young catcher that no team is going to be willing to part ways with (unless their names are Tony Reagins and Mike Scioscia). I think the Angels are poised to see significant improvements offensively just through the increased playing time and/or maturation of guys like Trout, Bourjos, Trumbo, Conger, and Morales.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 15, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I would trade Howie instead of extending him...
He is coming off an “all star” season with career highs in HRs. This might be the highest he will ever get in terms of tradable value. He has low OBP & never seems to hit in the clutch. On top of that he is due for a large raise this year in arbitration and is a few seasons away from FA.
This would open up a ton of possibilities as far as giving players ABs. ie. Trumbo can start off platooning at 3B w/Maicer & see where that goes. Callaspo can be placed at 2B. 1B is then open for Kendrys or Fielder.
For every wise man there are a hundred morons... be carefull who you take advise from.
I would keep Howie
He only has one year of arbitration left. He will probably make $5 or $6 million this season. He will not be overpaid. He provides very good value offensively and defensively. I would not extend him to a long-term contract, however, unless it was favorable to the team. I would let him become a free agent next season and collect the draft picks. Same with Aybar. This tends to be the team’s approach, so it is what I expect that they will do. Depending, of course, on who is hired as the next GM.
Also if we extend him...
…in the future, he could also play multiple positions. He wouldn’t be locked in at 2nd. You could throw him at DH, 1st and LF. Jut depends on how the future plays out.
He lead the team in OPS this year and hit .255 with RISP plus .571 with the bases loaded. Only maded $3.3 in 2011. I don’t think it would cost the team too much to have him signed for 3 or 4 more years after 2012.
Young and cheap
and one of the most productive players at his position in baseball last year.
I think Ill pass on trading him.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
I agree with you both (Brody & Phi Slamma)...
Howie is not a bad player but the point is that we have too many players that all seem to do the same thing. Callaspo, Aybar, Maicer & Howie are all very similar players. The Halos overall are full of multiple players who are too similar (see the aging outfield corp/DHs). Out of all of these positions/players the one with the highest trade value is Howie. In my opinion he has reached his peak this year so this may be the best time to sell his stock (while its high). Someone needs to go so that ABs are more available to other players who are “blocked.” Why not trade the one with the highest value?
For every wise man there are a hundred morons... be carefull who you take advise from.
Because we are not trading from a position of strength
we need that value in the lineup and on the field.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Kendrick is not like the others
He is better. He had the highest OPS on the entire team in 2011 (Trumbo was 2nd). His 18 HRs were almost as many as those of Callaspo, Aybar, and Izturis combined. There is no reason to get rid of Kendrick, Callaspo, Aybar, or Izturis. All had good seasons. We showed this season that the four of them can take between 450 to 550 at-bats apiece with no problem.
Free Agents
Aybar & Izturis are both free agents after 2012, so to the extent that there is some redundancy, that won’t be the case for long.
Good point on them being free agents after 2012.
I wish we could fast forward to after 2014 when we’ll be free of all these crapy salaries. Then again I was looking forward to the end of the 2011 season the last few years for the same reason… God I hope Arte hires a really good GM to turn this ship around.
For every wise man there are a hundred morons... be carefull who you take advise from.
Selling high isn't a bad idea, if it gets something good in return
But it’d have to be really good, and young. No more trading productive players in their prime for unproductive players well past it.
I never did understand why....
…anyone would want to trade Howie or Aybar. They are productive players but wouldn’t net much in return.
and I forgot
Mike Trout needs to play at least 130 games next season.
There's enough hot air in this thread to sail a balloon to Santa Barbara.
Napoli's 27th, 28th, 29th and 30th homers of the year (four more than Jeff Mathis' career total) rained down on Angel Stadium like knives from the ceiling.
Too much talk of trading Bourjos on this thread.
You guys just killed my damn weekend.
I woke up in a great mood; I don't know what the hell happened.
by Monkeyspanked on Oct 14, 2011 3:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I really doubt it happens or is even considered
If it does happen, it’s a bad sign for the next GM and what we can expect in the next number of years.
There's worse things that could happen....
- Disney could buy the team
- Arte could say “just kidding” and re-instate TR to the GM position
- Kazmir, HGH, Speier, McAnulty, Wood, McPherson, and Mathis could all be starters next season
- Rodney is re-signed to a 7 year contract to be the closer
- The team colors could be changed to Periwinkle. Just Periwinkle.
- Soth’s contract could be extended in perpetuity. He. just. would. never. leave.
- Wells contract is renegotiated to pay him one dollar per year for the next 63 million years with the stipulation he starts in left field all 63 million years
- Mike Trout is traded for “future cash considerations”, only to find out that that the “cash considerations” are bonds tied to the Greek government debt repayments…
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
You missed this one:
The Angels PR guys produce a new extended-play version of “Buttercup” for use at the stadium.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
The only reason to trade Bourjos
would be for an established-stud-power 3B. Packaging Bourjos with a couple of farm pitchers for Ryan Zimmerman and Drew Storen or David Wright (because no way Longoria is available).
Any chance the Angels trade Wells for Carlos Zambrano or John Lackey straight up? I cant imagine Epstein would be that stupid but maybe his Boston replacement would be.
the only reason to trade Bourjos
is if the new Angels GM is on crack. There is about .00001% chance they get value in return when factoring in that Peter is going to make next to nothing for like 3 more years while whoever he gets traded for will most likely already be making a salary commiserate with his ability and will likely be in the decline stage of his career. Peter was already 14th in the AL in WAR last year as a 24 year old, never seemed to be on fire offensively for a long time, had some periods where he wasn’t doing much at all with the bat, and even made a DL trip and sat on the bench a bit because Soth couldn’t sit the old guys…… Trading him would be one of the worst 5 or so moves in Angels history IMO.
Jim Bowden on Tony Reagins.
Style: Authoritative, brilliant baseball mind who works well in the trifecta with owner Arte Moreno and manager Mike Scioscia. Builds teams on pitching and defense up the middle. Active at trade deadlines, will trade prospects and has the resources to acquire All-Stars
Dude...
I know Wells sucks but at least he’s not a dick or bat shit crazy.
Tim Salmon: The once and future Kingfish.
by Teixeira Who? on Oct 16, 2011 2:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Everybody does know that...
….Wells still has his no trade clause. He’s probably not going anywhere.
And to Scioscia’s credit, players with big contracts have lost their jobs before. Kazmir, Rodney, Pineiro & GMJ. Just saying there’s SOME presedence. We can only hope.
Vernon Wells no trade clause
Do you know how much salary the Angels would have to eat to trade Vernon Wells pay another team I’d say 9 million year of this 20 million plus salary tobad the Angels didnt have the BuleJay to pay 9 million year of his salary before the trade
No team in their right mind will take Wells at even $12 million a year.
For example, David Ortiz earned $12.5 million in 2011 and he hit .309/.398/.554
We'd have to eat about $55-$60 million for VW to become someone else's problem.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Just find a GM willing to waste $3-$7m just as the Mets were willing to waste $2m on GMJ and your "deal" comment can be responded with "done."
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
I would LOVE a Wells for Zambrano swap...
…Wells will roughly make $21 Million in 2012, 2013, 2014.
…Zambrano makes around $18.5 Million in 2012 and has a $19.5 Miliion vesting option for 2013 if he finishes in the top 4 of CY Young voting.
I think that would be a good starting part if we were to move Wells.
The Sox need to move Lackey asap.
If he is with them next year the sux nation is going to eat him alive. Boston hates John Lackey big time. I can see him being traded for Wells if Wells approves the trade. There is a $5 mil difference in their yearly contracts due by the players’ current teams (Wells making more) & both are free agents after the 2014 season. Lackey could regain his stride here in Anaheim (by that I mean be a decent #4 starter & pitch 200+ innings) and Wells could take over D. Ortiz’s spot in the lineup while platooning in the OF. Swapping these bad contracts could actualy benefit both teams with each player getting a fresh start.
For every wise man there are a hundred morons... be carefull who you take advise from.
Lackey is done
He’s probably a #5 SP at best. The deal to make is for Zambrano – he still has top of the rotation talent, albeit with a bipolar mindset.
The talent edge goes to Zambrano by a wide margin over Lackey; the mental make-up edge goes to Zambrano as well.
I say let the Red Sox get stuck with Lackey – they really do deserve each other.
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
A deal for Zambrano isn't realistic
He only has one year left on his contract. Both Lackey & Wells have 3 years left. There is too much additional money due to Wells then what is due to Zambrano for this trade to be a possibility. The Cubs would have to get significant financial compensation in years 2-3 of the deal to get this done. I don’t see that happening.
For every wise man there are a hundred morons... be carefull who you take advise from.
A trade could happen.
We just tell the Cubs’ new GM that the LF we’re giving him isn’t Carl Crawford.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.

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