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Mark Trumbo: The Next Mike Jacobs?

Every offseason I like to create my own lists of historical players who were statistically comparable to various Angels through to their current birthdays. My basic formula is: guys the same age who play the same position, within +/- 25% of the same number of career plate appearances, plus/minis 10 points of OPS+ (the "+" adjusts for offensive context), and then I eyeball Wins Above Replacement and other factors to find people who look truly similar. It's a shorthand way of narrowing down expectations for how our guys are going to perform in the immediate future.

Think about the current Angels team. Who is your biggest riddle in terms of how he's going to play next year, and develop over the near term of his career? Mine, by far, is Mark Trumbo. Can he really continue to exceed expectations? Does that terrible plate discipline portend a sophomore face-plant? Well, let's see what the comp exercise turns up.

Star-divide

It's not an impressive list. Fourteen other guys, the majority of whom were out of baseball by their 30th birthday. The best player of the bunch, Deadballer Jake Stahl, has the least in common with Trumbo; and there's a lot of Hee-Seop Choi/Dave Revering types here who had better strike zone judgment than our Mark. Other non-immortals on the list include Ramon Webster, Mike Fiore, Claude Rossman, Del Gainer, Chuck Harrison, Tony Lupien, Mitch Moreland, Pat Putnam, and Wayne Belardi. And the two hitters who most resemble the Trumbomber do not inspire confidence:

NM   G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB/CS AVG  OBP  SLG OPS+ oWAR dWAR WAR 
MT: 157 589 554  67 138 31  1 29  89  26 128  9/4 .249 .287 .466 109  1.5  0.6  2.1
FW: 182 550 504  64 129 24  4 29  88  31  91  1/1 .256 .301 .492 112  1.5 -0.7  0.8
MJ: 166 632 569  73 154 44  1 31 100  55 127  3/0 .271 .334 .515 119  1.4  0.3  1.7

Who is "FW," this Trumbo lookalike who couldn't field? He was 1960s first baseman Fred Whitfield. Like Trumbo, Whitfield was a big dude who broke into the majors during his age-24 season. Unlike Trumbo, the very good incumbent 1Bman ahead of Whitfield on the depth chart did not break his leg during a walk-off home run, and there was no DH back then, so the Bill White-era Cardinals shipped FW to Cleveland the next year for a couple of forgettables. He was an effective lefty-hitting platoon partner there for his first two seasons, then put it all together at age 27, hitting .293/.316/.513 with 26 HRs and 90 RBIs, finishing 21st in the MVP vote. He hit 27 homers the next year, but his batting average collapsed, and he never did learn how to take a walk or field his position or run the bases. He was a part-timer by age 29, washed up at 31, retired at 33. And his stats were much closer to Trumbo than Bachelor #2.

That man, the one with the gaudier-seeming offensive stats, is Mike Jacobs. Who played his way out of the major leagues by age 29 because he couldn't overcome his lack of plate discipline and couldn't do anything besides hit the ball 400 feet now and then. Jacobs came up with a bang as a late-season addition for the New York Mets in 2005, hitting four home runs his first four games, and an astonishing .310/.375/.710 in 112 plate appearances. But instead of making way for the Mike Jacobs era, the Mets converted him into Carlos Delgado, flipping Jacobs to Florida where he hit a Trumboesque .262/.325/.473 with 37 doubles and 20 HRs in his first full season. Two more years of similar results (and negative value: Jacobs put up a -1.5 WAR in Florida despite 165 extra base hits in 3 seasons), and the Marlins shipped him to Kansas City for reliever Leo Nunez. The Royals released him after a lousy .228/.297/.401 year; the Mets gave him one last quick look in 2010, and about the last we've heard from the guy is that he tested positive for Human Growth Hormone in the minors this year while playing for the AAA affiliate of the Colorado Rockies, who promptly released him.

But I wasn't satisfied with the diversity of results here, and I'm genuinely interested in how no-walk thumpers like Mark tend to age, so I conducted a new search, one that doesn't care at all what you did before age 25 -- after all, not everyone good enough to hit well across 550 or so plate appearances by age 25 are good enough to do the same at age 25, on account of they can't hold a full-time job. So the parameters for the new search were this: Who, among players at the four least challenging defensive positions (DH, 1B, LF, RF), had age-25 seasons with at least 502 plate appearances, 20 home runs, and 90 strikeouts; but with fewer than 45 walks and an OPS+ of less than 123?

It's a fascinating, evocative list. Since I'm interested here mostly in batting development, I'll rank them by offensive Wins Above Replacement. Here are the age-25 seasons of Raul Mondesi, George Bell, Cory Snyder, Ron Kittle, Deron Johnson, Tony Conigliaro, Rico Brogna, Mark Trumbo, Downtown Ollie Brown, Hunter Pence, Greg Walker, and -- again -- Mike Jacobs:

NM   G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI SB/CS BB  SO  AVG  OBP  SLG OPS+ oWAR dWAR WAR  K/BB
RM: 157 673 634  98 188 40  7 24  88 14/7  32 122 .297 .334 .495 123   3.6  1.1 4.7 3.81/1
GB: 157 666 607  87 167 28  6 28  95 21/6  43  90 .275 .327 .479 115   3.4  0.4 3.8 2.09/1
CS: 142 558 511  71 139 24  3 26  75  5/1  42 101 .272 .326 .483 122   2.7 -0.2 2.5 2.40/1
RK: 145 570 520  75 132 19  3 35 100  8/3  39 150 .254 .314 .504 118   2.4 -0.6 1.8 3.85/1
DJ: 140 519 477  63 130 24  4 21  79  4/3  37  98 .273 .326 .472 119   2.3  0.4 2.7 2.65/1
RB: 134 540 495  72 143 27  2 22  76  0/0  39 111 .289 .342 .485 119   2.3  0.1 2.4 2.85/1
TC: 146 617 560  89 149 20  1 36 116  4/2  43  93 .266 .324 .498 117   2.2 -0.3 1.9 2.16/1
MT: 149 573 539  65 137 31  1 29  87  9/4  25 120 .254 .291 .477 113   1.8  0.3 2.1 4.80/1
OB: 151 621 568  76 150 18  3 20  61 10/6  44  97 .264 .319 .412 108   1.6  0.0 1.6 2.20/1
HP: 157 642 595  78 160 34  4 25  83 11/10 40 124 .269 .318 .466 105   1.1 -0.4 0.7 3.10/1
GW: 163 650 601  77 155 38  4 24  92  5/2  44 100 .258 .309 .454 103   0.9 -0.3 0.6 2.27/1
MJ: 136 520 469  54 123 37  1 20  77  3/0  45 105 .262 .325 .473 106   0.4  0.1 0.5 2.33/1

A couple of things stand out. The first is that in an already patience-challenged group, Mark Trumbo walked the fewest times, had the lowest on-base percentage (by 18 points), and by far the worst K/BB ratio. The second is that, with the exception of Hunter Pence (who is still only 28) and George Bell (who won an MVP at 27, though he was toast by 33), everybody on this list was considered a serious disappointment.

Tony Conigliaro (after being traded the following season to the Angels) played just 95 more games. Ron Kittle never matched his age-25 stats in any meaningful offensive category except walks (and even then only once). Rico Brogna never again had an OPS+ higher than the league average of 100. Cory Snyder hit .239 for the rest of his career, never again topping 20 home runs. Ollie Brown only had two more seasons with more than 340 plate appearances. Greg Walker was platooning at 28, retired by 31. Deron Johnson, like George Bell, finished 4th in the MVP voting during a great age-26 season ... and then (unlike George Bell) produced all of 0.2 WAR total for his remaining 11 seasons in the big leagues. Raul Mondesi was considered among the greatest wasted talents of his day. Mike Jacobs you know about.

Consider this: The broad baseball prime years are basically from 25 to 29 (with a peak-within-a-prime at 26-27). Generally speaking, you'd expect guys to be about as good at 29 as they were at 25. But look how that group above aged just four years later:

NM   G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI SB/CS BB  SO  AVG  OBP  SLG OPS+ oWAR dWAR  WAR 
RM:  96 426 388  78 105 22  2 24  67 22/6  32  73 .271 .329 .523 109   1.7  0.9  2.6
GB: 153 664 613  88 182 41  2 18 104  4/3  33  60 .297 .330 .458 127   3.3 -0.2  3.1
CS: 124 420 390  48 105 22  2 14  57  4/4  23  96 .269 .311 .444 118   1.7 -0.4  1.3
RK:  59 173 159  21  44  5  0 12  28  0/1  10  36 .277 .318 .535 122   0.3  0.1  0.4
DJ: 127 383 342  29  71 11  1  8  33  0/1  35  79 .208 .285 .316  80  -0.2 -0.6 -0.8
RB: 157 679 619  90 172 29  4 24 102  8/5  54 132 .278 .336 .454  94  -0.7  0.5 -0.2
TC: -----------------------------------DNP------------------------------------------   
MT: -----------------------------------n/a------------------------------------------
OB:  97 333 296  28  83 10  1  7  32  4/1  33  53 .280 .355 .392 114   0.9 -0.1  0.8
HP: -----------------------------------n/a------------------------------------------
GW:  77 263 233  25  49 14  0  5  26  0/0  23  50 .210 .286 .335  77  -0.6  0.2  0.4
MJ:   7  28  24   1   5  1  0  1   2  0/0   3   7 .208 .296 .375  82   0.0  0.0  0.0

That's right: Only one player was remotely as good, most were considerably worse, and just two qualified for the batting title. Stunning, and -- if you're concerned about the future of Mark Trumbo -- depressing.

I wanted to see how much this deterioration was a function of strike zone judgment, so I created a new list with the same parameters, only with no consideration for strikeouts and walks (and the OPS+ band tightened to between 109 and 116 to create a more manageable selection). Here are those players at age 25, again ranked by oWAR, adjusted for 162-game seasons: In order, they are Gil Hodges, George Bell again, Greg Vaughn, Magglio Ordonez, Willie Kirkland, Butch Huskey, Marty Cordova, Kent Hrbek, Jack Howell (!), Derrek Lee, Richie Sexson, Jay Gibbons, Trumbo, and our old friend Willie Mays Aikens.

NM   G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI SB/CS BB  SO  AVG  OBP  SLG OPS+ oWAR dWAR WAR  K/BB 
GH: 156 676 596  94 170 23  4 23 115 10/?  66  64 .285 .360 .453 112   3.6  0.1 3.7 0.97/1
GB: 157 666 607  87 167 28  6 28  95 21/6  43  90 .275 .327 .479 115   3.4  0.4 3.8 2.09/1
GV: 145 614 542  81 132 24  5 27  98  2/2  62 125 .244 .319 .456 114   2.7  0.2 2.9 2.02/1
MO: 157 677 624 100 188 34  3 30 117 13/6  47  64 .301 .349 .510 115   2.5  2.7 5.2 1.36/1
WK: 126 511 463  64 126 22  3 22  68  5/3  42  84 .272 .335 .475 115   2.5  0.5 2.9 2.00/1
BH: 142 505 471  61 135 26  2 24  81  8/5  25  84 .287 .319 .503 114   2.2 -0.4 1.8 3.36/1
MC: 137 579 512  81 142 27  4 24  84 20/7  52 111 .277 .352 .486 115   2.1  1.2 3.3 2.13/1
KH: 158 666 593  78 165 31  2 21  93  1/1  67  87 .278 .351 .444 112   2.1  0.4 2.5 1.30/1
JH: 138 511 449  64 110 18  5 23  64  4/3  57 118 .245 .331 .461 110   2.0  0.5 2.5 2.07/1
DL: 158 625 561  83 158 37  4 21  75  4/2  50 126 .282 .346 .474 112   2.0 -0.2 1.8 2.52/1
RS: 148 607 537  89 146 30  1 30  91  2/0  59 159 .272 .349 .499 112   1.9 -0.3 1.6 2.69/1
JG: 136 541 490  71 121 29  1 28  69  1/3  45  66 .247 .311 .482 111   1.8 -0.3 1.5 1.47/1
MT: 149 573 539  65 137 31  1 29  87  9/4  25 120 .254 .291 .477 113   1.8  0.3 2.1 4.80/1
WA: 151 623 543  70 151 24  0 20  98  1/0  64  88 .278 .356 .433 116   1.4 -0.1 1.3 1.38/1

These men, especially compared to the previous group, were not disappointments. Gil Hodges made seven more All-Star teams and seven more top-20 MVP finishes. George Bell, you'll recall, was about the only guy from the first list who had a robust career. Greg Vaughn hit 306 more home runs. Magglio Ordonez, one of the most underrated players of the modern era, has put up a .312/.375/.509 line in 6415 post-age-25 plate appearances. Marty Cordova was done by 34 but even at 31 hit .301/.348/.506 with 20 home runs. Kent Hrbek averaged 24 HRs and hit .276/.370/.485 the subsequent 8 seasons. Derrek Lee has put up an OPS+ of 128 in the decade since, including a stunning age-29 campaign in which he led the league in batting, slugging, homers, doubles, hits, total bases, and OPS+. Richie Sexson hit 45 home runs twice, and had other seasons of 39, 34, and 29. Two disappointments (Kirkland and Howell) could never figure out left-handed pitching, two others (Aikens and Gibbons) had problems with drugs, and Butch Huskey (who has the worst K/BB ratio here outside of Trumbo) really belongs to the first group more than this one. Fittingly, Huskey was out of baseball by age 29.

Combining the two lists, there are 23 non-Trumbo players. The three hitters with the best K/BB ratios -- Gil Hodges, Kent Hrbek, Magglio Ordonez -- went on to have great careers. The three with the worst -- Butch Huskey, Raul Mondesi, Ron Kittle -- were semi-legendary busts. And each of the two groups had the exact same combined offensive WAR at age 25 -- 8.2.

Mark Trumbo, I'll stress again, has the worst K/BB ratio of all two dozen players.

There are a couple of things to be said in Trumbo's comparative favor. Unlike Raul Mondesi, he's a humble, hard-working over-achiever who stays in shape. Unlike Tony C., there are no residual effects from a brutal beaning to contend with. Unlike Ron Kittle, he appears to have a brain on his shoulders. Unlike Jack Howell, he can hit better than your sister when he doesn't have the platoon advantage. I for one deserve to eat copious crow for asserting on multiple occasions that Mark Trumbo was "not a prospect" and certainly wouldn't amount to much in the bigs, based merely on watching him try to take groundballs in spring training a few years back. He clearly delights in proving skeptics wrong.

But. Based on this very preliminary look at the issue, I would not be declaring first base a filled position for the Angels, not in a year when Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder are on the market. It's not clear that Mark Trumbo has an offensive ceiling much higher than what he showed in 2011. There are precious few positions on this team available for offensive upgrade, yet offensive upgrade is precisely what the team requires. Trumbo had a nice season, but first base would be an obvious target for upgrading even if he wasn't a prime candidate to regress. Meanwhile, he's a prime candidate to regress.

I didn't go looking for that conclusion, and I hope he proves me wrong again (namely, by learning the damned strike zone). But if it's my team, and his foot heals fine, he's putting on an outfielder's glove next spring.

Poll
Who will Mark Trumbo most resemble?
Mike Jacobs
61 votes
Ron Kittle
30 votes
Richie Sexson
116 votes
Gil freaking Hodges!
87 votes

294 votes | Poll has closed

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

Comment 74 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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Nice article and good analysis.

I for one was glad to see Mark Trumbo succeed and would love for him to continue to develop as a hitter. I just can’t see Trumbo hitting above what he did this year. His plate discipline is worse than Vlads was. The only difference is that Vladdy could actually hit those pitches well. If he can improve on that there is a chance because he does have insane power. However I don’t know if he can overcome that. I am rooting for Trumbo, but as you said if there is someone else out there they need to strike.

The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.

by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 16, 2011 7:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Ok. If Suboptimal is GM, you gotta be his right hand....

I woke up in a great mood; I don't know what the hell happened.

by Monkeyspanked on Oct 16, 2011 7:15 PM PDT reply actions  

awkward...

What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.

by clover_black on Oct 16, 2011 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not that there's anything wrong with that

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Oct 16, 2011 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

except that Subops a lefty...

dun dun dun.

" With Haren bolstering the rotation, the Angels are set up beautifully for 2011"- Another East coast biased reporter

by Halos2011champs on Oct 16, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Matt would definitely be the boss

Among many other things, his paid subscription to Baseball Reference makes him more qualified.

by Suboptimal on Oct 16, 2011 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times.

My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 16, 2011 7:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Who does Prince Fielder most likely turn into?

by Rev Halofan on Oct 16, 2011 8:28 PM PDT reply actions  

Silly Putty.

A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.

by angelslogic on Oct 16, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good question

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Follow the Chicken on Twitter

by SportsChicken on Oct 16, 2011 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh Oh, I know, I know!

Mo Vaughn with a fro.

My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 16, 2011 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fro Vaughn?

Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 24, 2011 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well,

if you ate a Japanese person you would likely gain some weight too.

by rmhalofan on Oct 18, 2011 6:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mo Vaughn

From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average

by mustard_man on Oct 17, 2011 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ron Kittle

It’s funny that that’s Mark’s comp, because that’s who I always thought he reminded me of. Which means we might eek out 2-3 more years of decent power numbers out of the guy. Which is fine by me.

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Oct 16, 2011 8:34 PM PDT reply actions  

I watched an '83 Chisox/Orioles playoff game re-rerun recently...

… and I was stunned how much Kittle reminded me of Trumbo. Except that RK was obviously dumb as a box of hair.

by mattwelch on Oct 17, 2011 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hopefully he's not speaking at Freedom Fest 2012

http://www.ronkittle.com/motivational_speaking.html

Think before you act. Learn how to count to three before you fire off an ugly e-mail or a phone call

And other gems…

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Oct 17, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think your analysis proves another point:

Many of us, me included, have expectations that far exceed what Mark Trumbo will actually attain offensively the next few seasons. It also shows how pathetic the Angels line-up was – a sub-par Trumbo looked like superman next to the likes of VW, Jeff, Bobby, Alberto, and Erick.

A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.

by angelslogic on Oct 16, 2011 8:46 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

This is why I want us to trade Trumbo

Well not exactly because I didn’t do the analysis you did. But I’m concerned to low BB totals will have him destined to fail eventually. He’s not poised to be a great player and probably won’t even be a good one.

We need to sign Fielder and move Trumbo packaged with Abreu for anything we can get.

by Nashdiesel on Oct 16, 2011 9:05 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

We should trade him

Because we are the Angels and to keep him would break a long history of dumping young talent in favor of soon to be washed up talent.

"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.

by ArchAngel_7 on Oct 16, 2011 9:45 PM PDT reply actions  

trAdition?

My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 16, 2011 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nah

We only trade young talent if they know how to take a walk.

After all, our hitting coach thinks walks are a “false stat.”

by YouthofToday on Oct 16, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Remember guys we have a big free agent coming off the DL soon

Trumbo will be irrelevant. We will Big Splash our way to a title

"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter

by ryanfea on Oct 16, 2011 10:28 PM PDT reply actions  

This pretty much sums up my reservations about Trumbo

You can find a few unusual power performances like the one he just in the history books (or on the same roster, cough Wells cough cough), but there’s really no precedent for a guy with his limited skill set going on to have a respectable career. Miguel Olivo is Trumbo’s sole peer in the K/BB department, and his bat is only tolerable because he’s a very good defensive catcher.

The Marlins did well to sell high on Mike Jacobs, Leo Nunez/Juan Oviedo’s current legal problems notwithstanding. Since Trumbo still has two pre-arb years left, the Angels are in a position to do even better, especially if he lucks out in the ROY vote. There might be a lopsided deal out there to be made. It’s certainly a better idea than moving Bourjos in order to “break” the self-inflicted logjam in the outfield.

by Suboptimal on Oct 16, 2011 10:50 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree 1000%

However, I feel like the Arte/Scioscia-era Angels tend to hold onto their prospects, which, is probably a good idea most of the time. Hopefully we get a GM who has the same reservations about Trumbo and gets a good deal for him.

Doubtful, though….very very doubtful….

"The Transplant" (So. Cal boy stuck in NYC)

by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Oct 17, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would be in favor of moving Trumbo as well

It’s too bad about his injury, since that might depress the market somewhat, but otherwise, this is as high a value as he’s most likely to have. It would be interesting to see exactly WHY those guys above failed, but my guess is that pitchers eventually realized, “Hey. I don’t ever have to throw this guy a strike.”

That’s my big concern with Trumbo. He surprised a lot of pitchers this year. My guess is that the scouting reports/video/common sense dictates he’s not going to get nearly as many pitches to hit. He’ll still crush a few mistakes, but otherwise he could really struggle.

Like Matt, I really hope I’m wrong and that he learns the strike zone. The track record for that type of thing is not strong, though.

Defending maligned chants since 2009

by Gorbachav5 on Oct 17, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mark Trumbo

The next President of the United States of America.

Tim Salmon: The once and future Kingfish.

by Teixeira Who? on Oct 17, 2011 12:22 AM PDT reply actions  

he will all the other candidates heads off with a his mighty bat.

"id take 5th Dimention Wormhole Rivera over Wells any day of the week"
-clover_black

by the king of CERA on Oct 17, 2011 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

*he will knock their heads off

"id take 5th Dimention Wormhole Rivera over Wells any day of the week"
-clover_black

by the king of CERA on Oct 17, 2011 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nah...

CJ Wilson has already endorsed Naps.

by YouthofToday on Oct 25, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mike Jacobs seems like the logical comp to me.

Mark Trumbo is essentially the right handed version of him.

Richie Sexson had contact problems, but his plate discipline was very respectable. He has a .344 career OBP despite only hitting .261 and he averaged 70 walks per 162 games (664 PA’s).

"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana

by Chzburger Jones on Oct 17, 2011 12:30 AM PDT reply actions  

Good Analysis

always so interesting to read. Trumbo is one of my favorite new Angels, hope he can find plate discipline but the stats are very useful. In a better line up the numbers that he puts up are probably just fine but as Welch shows regression is likely. Welch for GM?

2012, Celebrating the 10th Anniversary of the Angel's First World Championship

by tanana40 on Oct 17, 2011 7:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks for the analysis

It sure looks like the new GM should be looking to make a trade. Doubt that happens though. I hope we do sign Pujols or Fielder. There was a report yesterday that the Rangers will make a serious run at Pujols. All I can say is … damn.

by Brody on Oct 17, 2011 8:42 AM PDT reply actions  

I wouldn't necessarily trade him

Even if we sign Fielder, a rational GM would be getting rid of both Wells and Abreu, leaving the DH slot wide open for Trumbo (though I would hope Sosh would put Mark at 1B instead of Fielder, who is terrible defensively). And even if K-Mo comes back, there would still be plenty of ABs left over for the go-to backup LF/RF/1B/DH, just as there was this year for Maicer Izturis.

Then, after 2012, RF is all his.

Note that this assumes rational behavior by the front office, so maybe not.

by mattwelch on Oct 17, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with that

Although Trumbo’s trade value has never been — and based on your analysis never will be — higher.

by Brody on Oct 17, 2011 11:39 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I agree because...Trumbo is CHEAP!

There is no downside here. It’s not like we’re paying the guy $21MM. If he hits a few more home runs, great. If not, oh well.

The point here is that we shouldn’t COUNT on Trumbo to hit 30 HR’s a year from here on out.

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Oct 17, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Getting rid of Wells and Abreu

That would seem to be much easier said than done. We might be able to trade Abreu, but who is going to want to take on $60 + million for 3 years of VW? If we DFA’d either of them, then we are basically saying that they are not even worth giving a roster spot to. Quite frankly, I don’t think that’s true. Abreu still has some OBP skills and Wells can still hit lefties pretty well. I don’t see how a GM can get rid of both of them.

by jco on Oct 18, 2011 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Boston would love to trade John Lackey; the Cubs would love to trade Carlos Zambrano

Abreu’s not a bad ballplayer, but we’ve got a crowded OF/DH/1B situation, and there’s no excuse on God’s earth to block Mike Trout anymore.

by mattwelch on Oct 18, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not at all

But I wouldn’t mind saving $18 million while removing the option of blocking baseball’s best prospect with one of its worst hitters. Lackey, at least, is the devil we know, and if he continues to suck he’ll be easier to cut than an $81 million man who can still hit 25 home runs.

by mattwelch on Oct 19, 2011 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

True

I would do Lackey for Wells.

My next move would be to install him as the 5th starter to send a message to him and have Scioscia verbally undress him in private.

Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Waiting on Mathis

by hauldog on Oct 19, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

DEFINITELY expect a sophmore faceplant...

I say we use him as trade bait. Right after he comes in second in the ROY voting.

Not going to happen, I know but…one can dream.

Is P-Bo next, Welch? Speedy CF with no plate discipline who hits way to many balls in the air?

"The Transplant" (So. Cal boy stuck in NYC)

by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Oct 17, 2011 9:05 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm not sure I agree with this analysis

Mark Trumbo is on the way to becoming the greatest Angel hitter of all time. He’ll start to walk more as pitchers fear him. #idonthavethefactstobackthisup

"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon

by BruinHalo on Oct 17, 2011 9:36 AM PDT reply actions  

This comment is so wrong, it's stupid.

He’ll never have to walk, which is a dumb, false thing to do anyway. Mickey Hatcher will get him to lower his hands and start driving the ball the other way once pitchers fear him.

Imagine how valuable Trumbo will be once he masters moving runners on second to third by hitting weak ground balls to the second-baseman.

Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.

by snowhor on Oct 17, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

SOMEONE missed the hashtag of sarcasm

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Oct 19, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was you that missed the sarcasm.

Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.

by snowhor on Oct 19, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

funniest part of this post

Was PhiSlamma leaping into the Sar Chasm. As one of the sharpest (albeit crankiest) wits on this blog, it doesn’t happen often.

Well, come see a fat old man some time!

by Moondoggy on Oct 24, 2011 5:10 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

What I find disconcerting

is that if you look at Trumbo’s minor league stats, 2011 was by far his worst season for plate discipline. Obviously, major league pitchers have better control and better breaking balls, so you would assume a rookie hitter’s pitch recognition would suffer. But I can’t ignore that Trumbo’s plate discipline seemed to get better year after year in the minors, only for him to look like Jeff Francoeur in the majors. Watching him play last year it seemed he had no interest in even attempting to see more pitches.

Add to this that Wells posted the worst OBP in the modern era in his first season here while Napoli, whose plate discipline seemed to deteriorate with each successive major league season, suddenly spikes back up his first year away from Anaheim. Will this past season finally provide a case study for the Hatcher/Scioscia “contact ball” philosophy and how it kills the team’s run scoring potential?

by dmhead on Oct 17, 2011 9:39 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

For what it's worth

In 12 seasons, the Hatcher/Scioscia hitting philosophy has averaged a .333 OBP and a .312 OBP these past 2 seasons.

by LAA101010 on Oct 17, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Which concerns me even more

As the years go by, Mike seemingly gets more and more power within the organization. The team we’ve seen the last few years would seem to be a result of his overall vision.

by dmhead on Oct 17, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

It seems that Scioscia is stubbornly trying to build an Angels team that closely resembles the '88 Dodgers

Shitty offense (sans Kirk Gibson) and great pitching.

link

.657 Team OPS and a horrendous .305 OBP

by LAA101010 on Oct 17, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

How can a player possibly only score 29 runs in 450 PAs?

I mean Soth sucked but did have a .318 OBP and 105 hits. Just on odds, you’d figure he’d score like 45 or so.

Funny, the 2nd highest OPS+ on that team was Soth’s backup Rick Dempsey in his career year at age 38.

"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen

by IE Angel on Oct 17, 2011 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not gung-ho about Trumbo

I’d look to deal him. He was a nice surprise and could stick around for a while, but this team needs an offensive upgrade somewhere, and there’s a good chance Trumbo will not be around for long (then again, this is Scioscia ball… he might bat 4th or 5th for 10 years even though it isn’t warranted.

First base is one of the easiest positions to upgrade. Get Fielder.

by angelsfan15 on Oct 17, 2011 12:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Very negative up in here

Just be glad that you don’t live in Freaking Dallas. Yes, Texas has the Gulf, Swamp of Mexico, but Dallas is hundreds of miles from the Swamp and more than a 1,400 miles from Southern California Beaches.

by wols0003 on Oct 19, 2011 3:51 AM PDT reply actions  

yes, the beach is great and yes, texas is a hellhole

but what does it have to do with the trumbomber?

"id take 5th Dimention Wormhole Rivera over Wells any day of the week"
-clover_black

by the king of CERA on Oct 19, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

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