Mike Scioscia talks Mike Napoli trade
Scioscia talks the Napoi trade and the Angels GM search, among other things. Sosh says that Napoli's "durability" was the biggest factor in trading him for Mt. Vernon.
7 months ago
Jason Andrew Martin
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Brilliant.
“Mike had to work on stuff that didn’t come naturally to him, more so than other catchers who maybe do it more naturally.”
If MIke considers Jeff Mathis a naturally gifted catcher, he needs to be fired.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Oct 25, 2011 5:48 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
+1, but I would add one word:
If Mike Scioscia still considers Jeff Mathis a naturally gifted catcher, he needs to be fired.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
oh no
he used Mauer as the example which is a very good one
by will_i_am_kun on Oct 25, 2011 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
This is all so much bullshit
The thing that cracks me up is when people say we didn’t think he was any good. We played him a lot more than Texas has this year over his career with us.
Because you had him for four seasons longer than Texas has. Napoli averaged 362 PA per season under Scioscia, and he got 432 PA this year despite missing 19 games with an injury. Ron Washington has given him all of four days off since August 1, including the postseason.
Was his playing time somehow more pure as an Angel, because he was always treated as a catcher and not a C/1B/DH? Bitch, please. If Mike Scioscia truly believes that, then he really needs to consider the possibility that his own playing career has totally warped his perception of player value.
In the meantime, he just sounds like a child in trouble with his parents.
by Suboptimal on Oct 25, 2011 5:53 PM PDT reply actions 10 recs
Exactly
He was injured for part of this year and he’s started every post-season game at catcher this year. There is no way Scioscia would have ever done that. Plus, the Texas lineup is stacked and they actually have a competent back-up catcher. We had no competent back-up while Napoli was on the team and our lineup needed him a lot more.
You'd think someone who lives by the turn the page philosophy wouldn't dig his heels in the ground and be so intent on proving his case on Napoli.
He sounds like a politician not smart enough to acknowledge a mistake and move on. If Soth keeps acting like this he’s going to lose an election one of these days in the Republic of Arte Moreno.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Ignoring, of course, that he played less time at catcher with the Rangers this year than he ever did with the Angels
Napoli played a ton in 2010. 140 games vs 113 last year with Texas. He played 114 games with the Angels in 2009, and much more of that at catcher than he did with the Rangers this year.
I understand you guys are looking for ways to criticize Scioscia, but let’s stick to the facts, huh? He was underused with the Angels, it’s true. But then he was also underused by the Rangers.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I listened to the interview on 710 too,
And tried calling in, but of course the lines were jammed. I was laughing my ass off at Steve Mason insisting the Angels pick up…wait for it..Aramis Ramirez and Papeldouche. Do these guys even follow the sport of baseball?
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Angels GM Andrew Friedman wouldn't sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Damon Oppenheimer wouldn’t sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Jerry Di Poto wouldn’t sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Kim Ng wouldn’t sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Dan Evans wouldn’t sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Billy Eppier wouldn’t sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Andrew Friedman wouldn’t sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Suboptimal wouldn’t sign Aramis Ramirez.
Angels GM Omar Minaya would soooo sign Aramis Ramirez.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 25, 2011 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
and how
Writing it twice will increase our chance of getting him. I have to believe that.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Oct 26, 2011 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions
which can only mean de facto GM Mike Scioscia wants to sign A. Ramirez
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Oct 25, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
They suck
I’ve seen more compelling (and coherent) arguments and discussions scrawled on the wall of a gas station bathroom than I have heard on their shitty radio show.
Ireland also looks like Tweedy Bird.
Tim Salmon: The once and future Kingfish.
by Teixeira Who? on Oct 25, 2011 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
The most important thing about this is not about the Napoli trade....
1.) He acknowledged the existence of sabermetrics and the role advanced stats are playing in the game.
2.) He shunned the idea that he is the GM. He said he doesn’t have the capacity or interest in it, but rather he just gives an opinion.
There is no way there was not a discussion with the higher-ups that Soth needed to say something to get past the public perception that he is controlling this club. I hope that this whole thing was for Andrew Friedmans benefit.
Unlike this cat, my love for the LAA will never die.
Except for, you know, Napoli only playing 113 games this year
Defending maligned chants since 2009
by Gorbachav5 on Oct 25, 2011 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about dumping the undurable 113 game player in favor of the extremely durable 93 game player (Jeff "Sweetass" Mathis)?
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Except Mathis playing 93 games has nothing to do with durability
It has everything to do with the fact that, as blind as Scioscia is towards him, he can only ignore a 37 OPS+ for so long. Mathis played 93 games because he sucks.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
So, we can play the guy who sucks part-time, but not the un-druable good player part time?
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
I think there are two things going on
1. Obviously Napoli and Scioscia clashed. Scioscia was trying to develop Napoli’s defense and Napoli never met Scioscia’s expectations. There was a rift there that the Angels wanted to get rid of, understandably.
2. The other factor is that the Angels, despite all the dumb things they thought last offseason, came to the oh-so-obvious realization that Napoli had more trade value than Mathis. Which is true. Unfortunately, they squandered that trade value in one of the dumbest trades in history.
Scioscia values defense in his catchers. Napoli wasn’t going to play full time because he couldn’t handle it behind the plate and there was, ostensibly, nowhere else for him to play. So they traded him. I wish they would have kept him, but I understand why they did it and I don’t disagree with their reasons. I just wish they could have gotten something other than Vernon Wells’ $24 million corpse.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I see Mike is no stranger to demolishing straw men...
The thing that cracks me up is when people say we didn’t think he was any good. We played him a lot more than Texas has this year over his career with us.
Who are the people that say you didn’t think he was any good? No, it’s that he was EXTREMELY under-valued by Angels management, and we suspect you Mr. Scioscia were primarily responsible for the undervaluing. Why?
- You played him as an interchangable part with Jeff Mathis, a guy that should be in Double A.
- You had to have given tacit approval of the trade for Vernon Wells, arguably the worst trade in Angels history. I can’t possibly know the details of the negotiations, but I seriously doubt the trade hinged on the inclusion of Napoli (if only!). If so, Reagins is an even bigger sucker than I ever dared believe.
I’d guess he saw that you had little confidence in Napoli, and offered him to Toronto as a "sweetener", a throw-in to expedite the deal. Did you raise any objections? I seriously doubt it…because you were concerned about Napoli’s "durability". What a bucket of bullshit.
Sorry to say, you reap what you sow. I hope you understand, it’s miserable to see that a neglected seed from the Angels own organization has quickly matured into the stature of a potential World Series MVP. For our greatest divisional rival! At the very least, their management could see potential and value where you could only see…bad hands? Seriously?
I’d hope this entire experience results in better handling of Hank Conger. I retain my doubts.
by sothball on Oct 25, 2011 6:34 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
"I’d hope this entire experience results in better handling of Hank Conger. I retain my doubts."
You’re right to keep those doubts right where they are.
Mike Scioscia knows best, and he sure as hell isn’t planning on learning anything new from statistics or new experiences.
Scioscia went on this show for one reason: to try to put out the many fires that burn around him.
He was in full public relations mode, trying artfully to distance himself from the Napoli debacle and to assure us he’s just a manager who gives opinions when asked by the FO.
Sorry Mike, I’m not buying what you’re selling.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Oct 25, 2011 7:14 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Since the Reagins Appointment in 2008
Mike had over 1,500 days on which to give an interview and explain that he has no GM push.
He waits until a month after the Reagins dismissal to do so.
The drain is circling. Barring a pennant, I don’t see Scioscia here in 2015.
since joe maddon and bud black left
mike looked and seems lost.
conger > mathis
by ihigh on Oct 25, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sosh is still one of the best in the game.
When we win, people say he’s great. When we lose, people blame him. While this may be the way of the world, Reagins screwed him the last couple years.
No one complained about Sosh until the Mathis Napoli dilemma. Sosh had his own opinions, everybody else had theirs. Now the fact that Reagins pulled the trigger apparently means it’s all Scioscia’s fault.
There’s no other manager I’d rather have running this team than Sosh. Do I agree with his opinion of Napoli? Of course not. Do I like the fact that we’ve missed the playoffs the last 2 years? Of course not. But I’m not going to point my finger at the guy who has won the MOY award twice and brought us our first and only World Series trophy.
by moralesforpresident on Oct 25, 2011 9:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Jeff Mathis = argument over, you lose
I cannot think of any other manager who would keep playing him and his .174 B.A. and questionable defense. That line up card is the albatross around Sosh’s neck and he put it there.
CONGER, CONGER, CONGER !!!
by steelgolf on Oct 26, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
This was my thought as well,
Seemed like Soth had to address the media and fans, probably at the behest of Arte. and I thought he tried a little too hard to distance himself from the trade, especially since all Mason or Ireland had to point out was the fact, whether naps was injured or not, Soth certainly didn’t value his bat, was less than kind regarding Naps D, and oh yeah, SCIOSCIA PLAYED THE WORSE CATCHER IN ALL THE BIGS EVERY FUCKING CHANCE HE GOT! My F bomb for October. Happy Halloween everybody!
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Its funny, I cant understand why sosh didnt value his power?
for the last few years after failing to score in the postseason and failing to score to win the division, all the angels management including mike were saying they needed a power bat in the lineup! So downgrading napoli to mathis made no sense. One can always work on defense but you cant all of a sudden expect mathis to hit 20+ home runs. From the first time I saw him take a swing at a pitch I knew he would never ever be playing for us that long, but I guess I was wrong and mathis is still on this team.
conger > mathis
Not sure if you recall...
…when Mathis first came up in 2006, he was heir apparent to the catching position (Benjie Molina had signed as a free agent with Toronto). He was sent back to the minors after about 25-30 games because…he couldn’t hit! I think he hit about.150.
Some things just don’t change. Mathis is one. The question is, why did Scioscia change?
"We did not butt heads, that's absolutely false"
You really expect us to believe there was absolutely no personality conflict between you & Naps? And that you didn’t insist that he be included in the Wells deal as a way of getting rid of a problem employee who didn’t somehow meet your absurd CERA, pitch calling & pitch framing standards? I know Mike wasn’t always this way, but he has become over the years one of those annoying prick bosses who can never admit he made a mistake & will spin endless amounts of bullshit trying to justify a completely unjustifiable decision.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
All of you who are hoping and wishing Jeff Mathis will be non-tendered by the Angels
new General Manager can forget about that now. Jeff’’s 93 games played last season proves his durability and insures he will be batting 9th next season. Let’s give Jeff a couple years to get better, like Soth says about Vernon Wells, to make a final decision about whether or not it was wise to trade away Mike Napoli.
Napoli's 27th, 28th, 29th and 30th homers of the year (four more than Jeff Mathis' career total) rained down on Angel Stadium like knives from the ceiling.
i cant stand all of the scioscia bashing!
Can u name me the other manager in our history to win a world series?
…..
There is none. Napoli is only doing good cuz he hits half of his games in Texas. See vladdy last year. Yes I am mad that maths is still on this team, but Jesus there is no other manager that I would want to manage this team.
"How much more money do you need?"
-Jered Weaver, 8/23/2011
by bbasher103090 on Oct 25, 2011 7:54 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
You are not in possession of home/road splits, are you
FALLACY OF TEXAS BAND-BOX WITH RESPECT TO NAPOLI EXPOSED
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Oct 25, 2011 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Many of us USED to feel that way, but it is not necessarily true anymore.
Joe Maddon is welcome anytime.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Oct 25, 2011 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And
I suppose Trumbo only drew 20 walks this season because he has to play half of his games in Angel Stadium. It’s really sad that if Nappy had remained with the Angels, Trumbo would have never even played because we all know Sosh would have just stuck Nappy at first. It makes me sad that our own manager would choose to pencil in an inferior lineup just so Mathis could continue to catch everyday.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 25, 2011 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
What do these names have in common?
Bruce Bochy
Joe Girardi
Charlie Manuel
Terry Francona
Tony La Russa
Ozzie Guillen
Jack McKeon
Bob Brenly
Joe Torre
Jim Leyland
Bobby Cox
They’ve all “won” a World Series in the division-play era, to the extent that a fat dude sitting in the dugout can be said to “win” anything that happens on a baseball field. It is not a rare accomplishment.
In fact, someone does it almost every year. In only one of the last 100 seasons has a manager failed to “win” a World Series, and that was in 1994. Archaeologists and historians still debate the reason for that, but it is generally assumed to have something to do with the fact that there were no baseball players.
by Suboptimal on Oct 25, 2011 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
those are all great names,
And I would take soth over any of em. All I’m sayin is stop bashing him for playing mathis, if anything blame weaver (which may be hard) since he was the only one left that wanted mathis in when he pitched.
"How much more money do you need?"
-Jered Weaver, 8/23/2011
by bbasher103090 on Oct 25, 2011 9:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Mathis played in 93 games last season
Weaver made 33 starts. You do the math broheim.
Sosh is the only one to blame for playing Mathis over Conger. Conger was crushing the ball in the April and Sosh benched him in favor of Mathis after Mathis threw a temper tantrum. I think Sosh is a good/great manager, but ironically it seems like his weakness when it comes to managing is dealing with backstops.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 25, 2011 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Tough call.
This is also the same guy that brought Bengie to prominence.
Scioscia prefered Mathis over Napoli. Bad call. It doesn’t, however, make him a bad manager.
by moralesforpresident on Oct 25, 2011 9:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
The things that used to make him a great manager don't exist anymore.
His late inning bullpen mentality doesn’t work because he does not possess a deep talented bullpen like in the pass. He has to be more Tony La Russa like with managing the late innings. He did a horrible job this year with that. Also, he reluctantly does not put his best lineup forth because of Jeff Premium Mathis. In the past he had a great defensive and good offensive catcher in Bengie Molina. He is no longer with the team. Soth’s strengths are now his greatest weaknesses.
The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.
by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 25, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong he is still good.
But he has to take an objective look at his team and make the right call. He also needs to stay the hell out of personnel decisions.
The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.
by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 25, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Obviously, Napoli brought a lot more to the table than Scioscia gave him credit for.
But it’s not like this year was so much of an upgrade playing Bobby Wilson (.189) and Hank Conger (.209) over Mathis. If your #1 and #2 pitchers are more comfortable throwing to a certain backstop, and the offensive production is negligible from all 3 choices… don’t you go with the best defensive option?
Also… when did it become fact that Scioscia was the one pulling the trigger on all these moves? I’m sure he signed off on the bad moves on some level, which makes him culpable… but there seems to be some consensus since they fired Reagins that he was just a puppet doing Scioscia’s bidding. I don’t see it.
by Halo-Centric on Oct 25, 2011 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I do not think Tony Reagins was a puppet.
But Soth did wield significant power. And its hard to develop offensive consistency when you never play so Conger never got a shot. Its not like Mathis’s defense was so overwhelming that he was the clear choice. Conger was robbed of a year of development.
The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.
by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 25, 2011 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
And I meant to add in the subject area which did not appear for some reason.
Soth still did wield significant power in the decision making process. It needs to stop. And it was hard for Conger to develop offensive continuity when he hardly played. Mathis’s defense (which is not Yadier Molina like) was not enough of a reason to rob Conger of playing time early in the season. It led to his downfall.
The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.
by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 25, 2011 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Please stop posting batting averages
Conger had a .282 OBP with 6 HR’s in sporadic playing time, while Mathis had a .225 OBP with 3 HR’s. There is a pretty big difference between a .282 OBP and .225 OBP. A .282 OBP is by no means good, but at least there is the potential of Conger developing into something good or even great, while after over 1k AB’s Mathis is who we thought he was, awful.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 26, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
people like joe maddon and bud black make mike a great manager
conger > mathis
It is a bit of flogging a dead horse.
Napoli is gone, and he isn’t coming back.
It would be refreshing to hear from someone in this organization that they screwed up, they know they screwed up, and they hope to channel some lessons learned to future decisions. That doesn’t appear to be happening, not with Scioscia anyway.
Scioscia sounds like such an imbecile.
At one point this just looked like a terrible trade, but the more Scioscia opens his mouth about it, the more I think he’s just a stupid human being and shouldn’t be in charge of anything. Way to go, Mike.
by Robviously on Oct 25, 2011 7:58 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
If Durability was such an issue
then why trade for a guy with Vernon’s injury issues
Because durability never was an issue
I know it was a rhetorical question, but the type of crap coming from Scioscia’s mouth pisses me off. It’s like the gabage coming from Republicans when asked if they’d do anything differently regarding the war, or the Dems regarding creating jobs. I don’t think Scioscia disliked Napoli as much as he just loved Mathis. Napoli got in the way of his plan for his favorite son, Mathis.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 25, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Yikes
The people that called in make me question the knowledge of a lot of our fan base. We have one guy justifying the Napoli deal because we have Carlos Ramirez and Jett Bandy in our system. There’s another guy saying Scioscia’s finger prints are all over the organization because of the Kashmir (sic) and Maxwell trades.
These clowns are paid to talk about and know LA area sports and somehow Ireland thinks that Reagins made a mistake letting Figgins walk? Somehow they didn’t think a Jeff Mathis question was at all relevant. He thinks the Angels tried really hard for Beltre, but somehow are a less desirable place than Texas or some shit like that. It’s pathetic to hear them justify the Wells move because Reagins was frustrated that they were unable to sign free agents. I hate to break it to them, but in the real world people typically sign contracts that allow them to make the most money. If Texas offers Beltre $90MM and we offer him $10MM less, then Beltre is going to sign with Texas.
Getting outbid on a player shouldn’t give them GM license to behave irrationally and blow obscene amounts of money on a player that has already proven that he will never be worth anywhere close to his contract. I’m still shocked that a businessman like Arte would bring in a player making $24MM/yr that not only sucks on the field, but is incapable of bringing fans to the ballpark and selling tons of merchandise.
I made the switch to 570 awhile back.
Petros and Money had Gubi on today. Great interview. Matt Smith knows his shit and the Jeff Mathis subject is not taboo.
Mason and Ireland are complete turds who are too busy trying to eat jeanie buss’s butthole to get some useless scoops on lakers baseketball.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Oct 25, 2011 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont blame beltre
If I were him I woulda went to Texas, especially since I would kno that my stats would look inflated playin in that little league park.
"How much more money do you need?"
-Jered Weaver, 8/23/2011
by bbasher103090 on Oct 25, 2011 9:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Are you Tony Reagins, bbasher?
Beltre went to Texas because they paid him more money. Stop with all your crap about Texas being the only reason guys have big years. Napoli and Beltre had great years because they are excellent hitters. Wells and Mathis had horrid years because they are lousy hitters.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 25, 2011 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Too shitty to pity.
The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.
by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 26, 2011 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions
WE WILL NEVER FORGET
the day our team was stupid like a red sox fan
and traded Napoli
I take it you don't have the DOV Secret Decoder Ring
You need to drink more ovaltine
-Quad Fin Rider
by DAD OF VLAD on Oct 25, 2011 9:30 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Naps for Wells is a great move.
Sarcasm. Mike just tell the truth&we will be happy. The truth will set you free.
"Stay loyal to the Angels. As for me, I'm jumping on the Nationals bandwagon, later." -Daniel Sirca
by migfig on Oct 25, 2011 10:52 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Mike Napoli played less at catcher this year with the Rangers than he did in any season with the Angels
Is Scioscia such an idiot that it’s beyond believable that maybe his point about Napoli’s durability behind the plate is, gasp, actually true? I will not argue with the point that Napoli was undervalued by the Angels. He was, and his inclusion in the Wells trade is evidence of that.
But let’s look at the playing time patterns. He played 140 games last year, and much of those were at 1B or DH when he didn’t have to worry about his catching mechanics. He had a rough season by his standards. He played 114 games the year before that, 94 of those at catcher.
He only played 113 games with Texas this year, 61 of those at catcher. He was praised for his defense and his handling of the pitchers. And yet, Napoli was only back there for 40% of the season? Why? Is it possible that Scioscia has a point about his durability? That Napoli is at risk of breaking down if he spends 100 – 115 games behind the plate? Based on his usage patterns, that seems like a logical explanation.
The Angels had two catchers, one of whom Scioscia liked (inexplicably) for his defensive abilities and (debatably) for his handling of pitchers. The other, Scioscia appreciated for his bat, but didn’t think he had the defensive skills (debatable) or durability (likely) to handle more than part-time catching duties. Given that the Angels were supposedly covered at DH (Abreu) and 1B (Morales before they knew he was still broken), it made some sense for them to shop him in their quest for an upgrade in the outfield. Yes, he was certainly undervalued. But that doesn’t make Scioscia a liar here.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
The durability excuse implodes when you compare the number of games Mathis played this year to the number of games Napoli played. Mathis played 21 less games than Napoli but you don’t hear Soth using that as a reason to criticize Mathis. Durability is just a bullshit excuse Soth is latching onto and hoping the fans buy it.
Fight on!
EMAW!
In that same vain
Shouldn’t have Scioscia realized the relative success Napoli was DH’ing and playing 1B in 2010. He could have merely replicated his 2010 role for the Angels rotating between C/1B/DH and that would have been fine. If the worry was his durability behind the dish, well the solution is to stick with his 2010 role when he was the 3rd best hitter on the team.
I don’t think the durability catching over a season is a unique Napoli struggle. Many catchers go through the same thing, and it’s usually their batting that is first to suffer. A recognition of Napoli’s durability issues combined with Napoli’s strength with the bat should have merely led to reprisal of Napoli’s 2010 role—-not being shipped off in a panic to Toronto when Crawford fell through.
I love the guy, but Scioscia was in the wrong here. Citing durability as an excuse is a straw man on Scioscia’s part especially when he had the big 2010 example of what Napoli’s role could be going forward if it was the real issue.
Durability is in no way a "strawman."
It’s a legitimate issue that the Angels noticed and, frankly, that Napoli’s injury history bears out, even this season. The Angels didn’t think they had a catcher who could play more than 90 games at the position. They knew they were going to have the DH spot filled this year by Abreu. They incorrectly assumed that they were going to have Morales back at 1B. So they thought they were covered at the two spots Napoli would have to play to give him a break from catching.
Scioscia’s problem is that he overvalues Mathis’s defense. It’s a blind spot for him. He fancied himself a fundamentally sound defensive catcher, and he wants that from his catchers. Mathis is that. That doesn’t mean he’s a GOOD defensive catcher, since fundamentals only get you so far before, you know, SKILL takes over. The reason Mathis played 21 less games than Napoli is because he sucks, and even Scioscia can’t ignore it completely. It has nothing to do with Mathis’ durability.
So the Angels had a guy in Napoli that they figured would only play 100 games for them, correctly reasoned that another team would probably value him more highly, and so traded him. The trade was ridiculously awful, but that doesn’t make the Scioscia wrong about Napoli. He only caught 61 games this season and played 113. Pretty strong evidence in support of Scioscia’s claims on Napoli’s durability.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
September Napoli caught 17 of 25 games; playoffs 13 of 15.
Money time Napoli catches 30 of 40 games and will catch the remaining one or two. Sosh’s claims re durability are bullshit.
More importantly, regarding the Wells trade, any other organization would have acquired Wells for no players and Toronto throwing in money. Did we do that, hell no. We assumed the entire financial obligation and threw in Naps because Sosh didn’t want Napoli because Sosh is in love with Mathis.
AND, THIS TOOK PLACE against the backdrop of the Rangers having inquired about Napoli and we DAMN WELL KNEW that the Rangers wanted him and should have known they would contact Toronto for a deal.
...on the road....
by Jack Kerouac on Oct 26, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Boom
We assumed the entire financial obligation and threw in Naps because Sosh didn’t want Napoli because Sosh is in love with Mathis.
AND, THIS TOOK PLACE against the backdrop of the Rangers having inquired about Napoli and we DAMN WELL KNEW that the Rangers wanted him and should have known they would contact Toronto for a deal.
I’d say that’s a fireable offense on both Reagins and Scioscia. Yet they still remain (with the exception that TR is no longer GM).
"The older I get, the more I learn, the more I hate how useless old rich people are at doing things correctly." ~ Phislamma
Angels 2011 W-L record with the alternate red jersey: 17-12
by blast21dave on Oct 26, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
If Reagins had a clue
He would have at least included something in the trade stipulating that if Nappy ended up being traded to a team in the AL West the Angels would receive extra financial compensation for the Wells deal. The Angels dealt Nappy because they wanted to shed payroll and Sosh saw it as an opportunity to finally give Mathis some breathing room. In essence, the Angels were too cheap to sign Beltre because they would have had to pay his full contract without being able to dump payroll in the process. Arte thought he could land a “impact bat” with one fewer year of commitment and being able to shed the contracts of Napoli and Rivera. Arte is just as much to blame for this deal as Reagins and Scioscia are.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 26, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
We didn't have to shed Napoli's contract.
He could have been non-tendered at no expense to the team if they didn’t want him.
The team actually thought they had to give up talent to acquire Wells. This is just another point on how dumb Reagins is.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
Of course he's playing a lot now - he played a lot for the Angels down the stretch too
Sept 2008 – 18 of 26 games
Sept/Oct 2009 – 21 of 32 games
But in none of those seasons did he play over 114 games or keep himself from getting injured. He was injured this season. The only time he played more games was when he spent the majority of the season as a 1B and DH. And even then he played more catcher with the Angels than he did with the Rangers. He also had his worst season in the last four with the bat.
Based on how he’s been used and his injury history, including with the Rangers, I have zero reason to doubt the claims about his durability. He’s healthy now, that’s great. That doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t play almost a third of the season.
The Wells trade was awful. I’m not going to deny that. But I understand why the Angels included Napoli in that deal.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
So, let's see. Scioscia had two choices: stick with Mathis who sucks every time he is in the line-up,
or go with Napoli who may not play catcher everyday, but will produce in most of the 110 – 130 games he plays.
Anyone with half a brain would have taken Napoli.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
Especially when you have someone like Conger or even Mathis
Mathis wouldn’t be so bad if he was just a Sunday catcher, but there’s no way any competent GM can leave him on the Angels roster. A GM was once asked why he traded a certain player and he said, “It’s the only way we could keep the manager from playing him.” Sosh cannot be trusted to always do what is in the best interest of the team and he clearly refuses to listen to the FO.
Down the stretch last season the Angels brought up Trout and Conger and said they were going young in order to make a run at the Rangers. Abreu and Wells were brought into Scioscia’s office and reportedly told they were going to platoon for the rest of the season. Shortly after that, the Angels had made up a good amount of ground and Sosh benched Trout even though he was crushing the ball. Sosh refused to play Conger even though I think it was pretty clear the FO wanted Conger to be getting a fair amount of starts. One has to wonder if Sosh insisted on playing Wells as a way to justify his opinion to trade Napoli to acquire Wells. With the power that Sosh wielded while Reagins was GM there’s no way Sosh didn’t sign off on that move before it was made. Reagins may have started the talks, but Mike Napoli doesn’t leave the organization without Mike Scioscia’s blessing.
by Howie the Halo on Oct 26, 2011 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions
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