Will Ryan Doumit Catch a Halo?
by Rev Halofan on Nov 13, 2011 1:04 AM PST
in Angels Rumors And Links
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PrintThe big talk today is that Catcher Ryan Doumit has been offered a contract by a few clubs and one of them is rumored to be the Angels... read all about it: Ryan Doumit To Sign Soon?
This dude would be an upgrade from Jeff Mathis and probably push Hank Conger to AAA (or trade bait) while Mike Scioscia clings on to Bobby Wilson for dear life. Doumit's lifetime stats are extraordinarily impressive compared to Mathis and Wilson. In the real world he is way beneath what Mike Napoli produces and at 30 is on shaky ground as far as being a slam dunk contributor for a long time.
Conger seems to be knocking on the door but Jerry Dipoto might be attempting to sell high on visions of Hammering Hank. Unless Doumit signs a one-year deal here, Conger turning 24 in January would seem to signal that he can stand one more season of everyday catching in Salt Lake, but had he been drafted by any one of at least half of baseball's major league squads is there any question Conger would have caught 120 games in 2011?
Doumit's eerie career OPS+ of 100 sort of shadow-cackles Jeff Mathis into oblivion. It is a Callaspoesque move, though, to substantially upgrade a black hole position by acquiring the statistically generic equivalent of a flat line.
And now for something completely different, the LA TIMES hoochies out their advertorial to Howard's to talk about his love affair with the Angels.
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you gotta be pretty sexy in an internet kinda way
to speculate on another dudes attractiveness
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Nov 13, 2011 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he's no Cary Grant
But let’s be fair. Official MLB team pictures are usually pretty bad. My own caption would be, “I’ve been in the Pirates organization my entire career.”
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
He looks like David Keith as Jack Parkman in Major League II
by Halowitz on Nov 13, 2011 1:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
That’s hilarious, I was thinking the same thing but had no idea what the guys name was
by aybars chew on Nov 13, 2011 5:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If he does become an Angel
Jack Parkman should definitely be his nickname. Well done.
Christmas List: DFA Mathis, Trade Abreu, Fire Reagins, Sign Buehrle
"Why [pitcher wins] should be taken as a record of the pitcher's ability is a conundrum to which no one has as yet vouchsafed an answer." M.G. Lloyd; Baseball Magazine - 1908
by Nathan Aderhold on Nov 14, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
Doumit and Mathis would be LEGEN (wait for it)
DARY at The Catch.
AJ Burnett is clearly a bigger douche, by the way.
The Angels are ill-served by a front office that willfully disregards both modern and classic performance measurements when it comes to Jeff Mathis. Astonishing, and nearly unforgiveable.
by LittleCupcakes on Nov 13, 2011 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
It would be nice to have a starting catcher
to tutor Conger/not suck.
Tim Salmon: The once and future Kingfish.
by Teixeira Who? on Nov 13, 2011 1:31 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I know nothing about this guy, but I'm a little worried about his home/road splits
.285/.350/.479 vs
.257/.317/.403
He would seem like pre-condition for a Mathis non-tender, allowing Conger to prove himself catching every day at AAA, with Wilson as the backup. Then when he gets hurt and/or the contract runs out, Conger could take his place, something like that. Kinda sucks for Hank, but if this is what we DiPoto needs to do to DFA Mathis in the Scioscia Subculture, it’s worth it for me.
Most players hit better on at home
And even if he doesn’t, a .317 OBP looks pretty good compared to .225 (Matis), .252 (Wilson), and .282 (Conger).
by Brody on Nov 13, 2011 5:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's what people were telling me about Vernon Wells last year
It’s a big enough difference to make you go hmmm, but I agree with you about the OBP stuff. Though Angel Aviator (who knows catching) had said previously around here that Doumit’s pretty brutal at it.
by mattwelch on Nov 13, 2011 8:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that the splits are important
But I wouldn’t entirely discount his home performance since most players generally perform better at home.
by Brody on Nov 13, 2011 11:31 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I would be more concerned
About the fact that Doumit has played his entire career in the worst division in baseball.
And what are Premium's home/road splits?
For 2011:
Home: .145/.193/.200
Away: .197/.250/.307
Clearly Premium would do better if he was with another team.
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
by red floyd on Nov 13, 2011 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Now I feel guilty
We’re holding him back from realizing his true potential! Jerry would be doing him a favor by not offering a contract.
I can’t WAIT for December 12th!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 13, 2011 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
Last year Jeffy was .313/.313/.375 in Arlington
Let’s trade him to the Rangers
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Nov 13, 2011 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
For Naps, straight up. Lyle would assure the Rangers they were getting the best of that deal.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
by angelslogic on Nov 13, 2011 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
But his road splits would STILL be a MASSIVE upgrade
I realize I’m preaching to the choir, but that’s how bad our catching situation is.
Our offensive problems last year were completely centered around having two black holes in the lineup. Everyone else posted a positive OPS+.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 13, 2011 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
From the Howard's advertorial
In some ways, the Howard’s-Angels alliance has taken on a life of its own. Now, when instant replays of Angels’ games happen in the stadium and on the radio, fans think of them as "Howard’s replays."
See, that’s the kind of gimlet-eyed analysis that separates the print boys from us bloggers.
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
Well, for what it's worth
We’ve had very good experiences when shopping there, and usually end up buying from them. I’d blame the over-the-top ballyhoo on the Times copywriters, not Howard’s.
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
"Big Splash" revisited..........
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
He's a very poor defender. Worse than Soth ever imagined Napoli was.
Would be an interesting dynamic if he were to get counted on behind the plate.
I like it though.
Literally anything> Black Hole at C
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
I would think he would platoon with Conger
In 2012, celebrating the 10th Anniversary of the Angel's First World Championship
That was my initial thought/hope
Why keep Wilson on the squad instead of Conger?
Christmas List: DFA Mathis, Trade Abreu, Fire Reagins, Sign Buehrle
"Why [pitcher wins] should be taken as a record of the pitcher's ability is a conundrum to which no one has as yet vouchsafed an answer." M.G. Lloyd; Baseball Magazine - 1908
by Nathan Aderhold on Nov 13, 2011 7:03 AM PST up reply actions
That's what I noticed
If it’s true Doumit is only looking for a 1 year deal this would appear to be an attempt to upgrade catcher while giving Scioscia something he apparently wants by having Conger catch another season and develop in AAA
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 13, 2011 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
Ya, that's what I would hope for.
There’s no natural platoon there, but I think it’s doable.
If you were to do something along the lines of a 90/70 split with him and Conger, it would hopefully keep Doumit healthier and give Conger some more major league experience.
Now would Scioscia approve of that? That’s much harder to say.
I don't see Conger as a back-up
I agree with Matt on this. If we sign Doumit, Wilson is the back-up, and Conger is either traded or sent to AAA to play everyday.
by Brody on Nov 13, 2011 11:28 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
If I hadn't seen the word "advertisement" at the top of that LA Times article, I would have thought it to be more of their Bleacher Report pabulum
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
I'm worried about his relationship with our pitchers
Just kidding!
His defense is below average, but he still put up a positive WAR every season of his career. Maybe under Sosh’s tutelage, Ryan could be at least a league average defender while providing offensive punch in the order.
Really, at this point in time, ANYBODY would be a huge upgrade at catcher.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
Ryan ranked #97 out of 114 at Beyond the Boxscore's catcher rankings
But remember, Jeffy ranked #62. You-know-who ranked #12.
Right now, I don’t care if Brian Downing suited up behind the plate. Anybody but Mathis…please.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 13, 2011 8:28 AM PST up reply actions
Honestly, just say no.
I’ve watched Doumit from afar for years and rooted for him. The Pirates don’t like his D enough to play him everyday. Sounds like Napoli-lite.
We don't need a free agent to upgrade at Catcher.
Just play Conger and we are significantly better there.
Concentrate on the pitching, where we have ‘lost’ some people (who we wanted out). We need relief pitching and a 4 and 5.
In the long run men hit only what they aim at. Therefore, though they should fail immediately, they had better aim at something high.
Walden
by matthiasstephan on Nov 14, 2011 1:49 AM PST up reply actions
Master plan here?
Scioscia plays Mathis over the God-King because he might be 1% better defensively. Then plays Mathis over Conger. If Sosh is given only Conger and Doumit on the roster, then Conger is the defensive option. So Sosh will have to play him! Or else tell Mike Trout to try catching.
Napoli isn't a catcher. He's a God-King.
by RallyMonkey5 on Nov 13, 2011 10:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
shaky stats so far!
send conger and chatwood for Matt Wieters!
I think the most important question here is
Whats his CERA?
The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.
by Angelsrthebest101 on Nov 13, 2011 10:08 AM PST reply actions
I thought the most important question would be, "How many games has he watched live?"
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
Its assumed that he hasn't watched as many games as Lyle has.
Because he has set too high of a standard.
The 2011 Angels, the biggest cocktease ever.
by Angelsrthebest101 on Nov 14, 2011 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Ramon Hernandez would be a better fit
Damn his Type A status. Any chance the Reds don’t offer him arbitration?
Yes, there's a chance
They have Hannigan, Mesoraco and Grandal available and I doubt they want Hernandez to accept arbitration.
http://babiesboozeandboobs.wordpress.com/
I'd wait it out
Any catcher the Angels get should help. Doumit isn’t very appealing and I doubt Scioscia wants him and will play him most of the time if they get him. No need to rush to an iffy player.
I've read there's a good chance, yes.
If it happens, DiPoto should be all over it. He’s an ideal fit.
Pray that the New CBA gets rid of 1st round compensation for Type A FA
Or at the very least slots these guys so that only top players like Pujos and Fielder are type A guys.
A poor man's Mike Napoli
But the Angels, having squandered their portfolio on junk bonds and subprime mortgages, are definitely poor men when it comes to catching right now. Could be a good signing, if the big boys in the AL East don’t jack up the price.
Any way for the Angels to get access to the Fed?
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Nov 13, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think I will be increasing the amount of my Angels Fan Confidence Poll vote this week.
Napoli's 27th, 28th, 29th and 30th homers of the year (four more than Jeff Mathis' career total) rained down on Angel Stadium like knives from the ceiling.
by 44FAN on Nov 13, 2011 11:35 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Mike D
reports the Doyers offered Doumit 1 year/~$3MM and Doumit declined. No word on any Angels offer.
Is the community opposed to a Conger- Wilson platoon?
I don’t see how said platoon would be significantly worse than a Doumit-nonMathis catcher tandem. And the proposed platoon would be better defensively.
go long with extenze...i do
by angelsownredsux on Nov 13, 2011 2:38 PM PST reply actions
In my opionion Doumit is the same as conger
but conger is younger and is cheaper with a better potential to hit more home runs.
conger > mathis
I'm still not sold on Conger
He can probably hit, but I haven’t seen anything to convince me that he’s ready to play the position. If he can’t hold up on the defensive end, his bat becomes a lot less valuable when you slot it in anywhere else on the diamond.
Doumit, on the other hand, has already shown that he can play. If he’ll take a 1/5 or 2/8 deal, then I don’t see anything wrong about going to war with Doumit and Conger. Wilson is totally expendable, and Mathis is even less than that.
But...
…everything says he ISN’T good defensively. So I’m confused.
Back to the issue, I’m totally fine with a Conger/Wilson split.
http://babiesboozeandboobs.wordpress.com/
No, he's not particularly good at defense
But he hits slightly better than most catchers, so it comes out as a wash. Conger may have a higher ceiling, but he also has a lower floor, at least for the next season or two. Doumit would provide better hope for league-average production out of the catcher spot.
Let Conger have one full season. Screw sosh.
conger > mathis
So I knew our catchers sucked last season, but this made me look up exactly where the Angels ranked in baseball.
I would advise against anyone else doing that. It’s painful.
It looks like the Astros were actually slightly more terrible than our catchers.
We’re number 29! We’re number 29!
I didn't know the Astros had catchers
I guess that explains why they were even worse than our sorry crew. Now, look up where the Rangers rank. =(
The Twins, Drew Butera is worse than Mathis if anyone was paying attention
I didn’t realize the Astros were so bad at catcher though.
Jerry Dipoto, Vampire Killer
Hmmm...by throwing to the correct base, I presume?
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 13, 2011 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
You know, we give him a lot of trouble for throwing to 1st base on that play, but guess what?
No major league base runner has successfully stolen 1st base against Jeff Mathis in his career.
Premium.
Put a mitt on that pumpkin and stick it behind the dish
Just not Mathis.
Tim Salmon: The once and future Kingfish.
by Teixeira Who? on Nov 13, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
It'll apparently take more than 1/$3MM
Representing the Angels in Sin City.
by maze88 on Nov 13, 2011 4:43 PM PST via mobile reply actions
with their current problem, no free-agent find attractive to play for dodgers!
i bet if the angels offer the same, he will accept it too bad they havent contact doumit
by will_i_am_kun on Nov 13, 2011 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
mlbtraderumors says the Angels haven't even contacted Doumit
I seriously doubt the Angels spend money on a guy like Doumit. I expect Conger to be given an opportunity to be the everyday catcher with Wilson serving as the backup.
Jerry D.P. said that we needed to upgrade at catcher.
That could be posturing though.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 13, 2011 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
If declined arbitration, Ramon Hernandez seems the far superior choice.
He’s made less than 4M each of the past two seasons — $8M over two years would probably secure his services.
BTBS had him as the seventh best defensive catcher in the MLB last season, and Chone Smith’s dWAR pegged him at +0.5 — so Scioscia would have nothing to complain about.
Hernandez’s .282/.341/.446 slash line in 2011 had him outhitting Torii Hunter.
He’d be a good mentor for Conger, he’s fine with platooning, and getting 2 WAR a season from a half time catcher seems like paradise at this point.
This guy should be #1 on DiPoto’s shopping list.
by Turks Teeth on Nov 13, 2011 8:51 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
This this this
Hernandez would be awesome. Cincy is fairly stacked behind the dish so let’s hope they don’t offer him anything.
Tim Salmon: The once and future Kingfish.
by Teixeira Who? on Nov 13, 2011 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
I completely agree.
If he’s offered arbitration is he off the table though?
A cheap loaner catcher is a waste of a draft pick.
Christmas List: DFA Mathis, Trade Abreu, Fire Reagins, Sign Buehrle
"Why [pitcher wins] should be taken as a record of the pitcher's ability is a conundrum to which no one has as yet vouchsafed an answer." M.G. Lloyd; Baseball Magazine - 1908
by Nathan Aderhold on Nov 13, 2011 11:47 PM PST up reply actions
Let's say theoretically
they sign CJ Wilson, who ranks ahead of Hernandez in the rankings, then sign Hernandez as well, wouldn’t the Reds receive only a sandwich pick even if they do offer arbitration? Or would they get our second round pick? Would those two guys be worth our first two picks? I’d have to say yes, considering the potential impact on this team over the next two seasons.
I think that your first scenario is right. Sandwich pick only.
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
Look, ANYBODY with a 98.6 temperature is better than who we ran out there last year
But slow down a little bit with Ramon:
His 2011 home/road splits are pretty extreme:
Home: .362/.430/.546
Road: .220/.268/.369
To be fair, his 2010 splits weren’t quite as pronounced, but 2009 was skewed toward Great American Ballpark, too.
Furthermore, he hit only .220/.287/.305 after the all star break last year. Which still blows away Jeffy by miles. But it’s at least a minor red flag.
The guy will turn 36 next May, appears to still be a decent catcher, and probably would make an outstanding mentor. But I wouldn’t expect him to have the same batting numbers.
But yes, I’d still take him, though.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 14, 2011 7:46 AM PST up reply actions
The splits are very Wellsian...
That scares me
go long with extenze...i do
by angelsownredsux on Nov 14, 2011 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
His road splits are better than Premium's whole season.
And, also by your logic, we shouldn’t play Premium (even if he was above the Mendoza line). His home splits were 30 points below his road splits (from BB-Ref).
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
I think EVERYONE'S logic is to not play Premium
Home, road, backyard, or Playstation.
But it IS amazing that Hernandez’s poor road splits blow away Mathis by a mile. Jeffy’s stats are mind-boggling. An OPS+ of 37 two years in a row.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 14, 2011 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
That has to have never happened before.
No general manager or field manager would tolerate that much fail for two years.
Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.
I would love a Conger/Hernandez platoon.
But Conger/Wilson is acceptable as long as Conger catches at least 120 games or so.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 13, 2011 11:29 PM PST reply actions
If not Hernandez or Doumit
what about Chris Snyder as a platoon candidate? Good defensive catcher and he hits way better away than at home (the anti-Wells if you will). He is also 31 and a type B. Would be interesting to see JDP sign a guy to his new team that he traded away from his old.
I agree - he's my personal choice among current FA catchers
But I’ll say this for emphasis – unless Hank plays, ANYBODY we acquire will be an upgrade. Even a AAA catcher.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 14, 2011 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
It's great we're looking for a backup catcher for Mathis..
but I guess if we land one it means Conger and Wilson are DFA.
Fun fact
Since 2002:
Plate appearances by Angel catchers: 5980
Plate appearances by Angel catchers who had previously received playing time from another major-league team before joining the Angels: 121
Going back even to 2000, Jorge Fabregas, Matt Walbeck, and Josh Paul are the only catchers to ever play for Mike Scioscia who also played their rookie seasons for a manager other than Mike Scioscia.
#CatchingGuru
I may be reading this wrong
Plate appearances by Angel catchers who had previously received playing time from another major-league team before joining the Angels: 121
Jose Molina came over in 2001 after playing for the cubs, abiet for only 10 games in 1999, had 900+ AB between 2003 – 2007
I play music for your entertainment
I forgot that they actually called him up in 1999
But the point stands if you limit “received playing time from another major-league team before joining the Angel” to " played their rookie seasons for a manager other than Mike Scioscia." Scioscialism trusts only itself; it’ll be interesting to see how he manages someone like Doumit if DiPoto brings him on board.
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