Texas Signs Reliever Joe Nathan
Rangers give former Twins closer Joe Nathan 2 years/14 million, plus third year club option
LoneStarBawl reports Neftali Feliz is being moved to the starting rotation.
6 months ago
~MMP~
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Relievers are going to get crazy Monopoly money this offseason.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 6:31 PM PST reply actions
This move says that the stRangers are out on C.J. Wilson.
Don’t you think?
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 6:38 PM PST reply actions
it makes them less vulnerable to hard bargaining
having instituted a backup plan prior to hos signing elsewhere, negotiations cannot dawdle on holding them hostage to a sky-high price tag.
Dammit, that is a really smart strategy.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
Signing a 36 year old RP for two years at 15mm, a guy who pitched three innings last year? Why? To make absolutely sure their ace signs with the Yanks, or even better, their division rivals? I understand the theory, I’m not buying this as a stroke of genius.
by Rock Island Line on Nov 21, 2011 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
Nathan pitched 48 games and 44.2 innings last year.
I’m not buying the stroke of genius either, mind you. Nathan lost a lot of velocity last year, and put up his highest WHIP in a decade, while being very susceptible to the longball.
Very surprised Texas wants to dole that much money out to a reliever who put up a HR/9 of 1.4 last season — given they have the worst park factor for HRs in the MLB: 1.500.
Huh?
FanGraphs had him averaging 92.3 MPH last year, 93.6 in 2009. Unless you consider 1.3 MPH a lot of velo loss…
Nathan was solid after early season struggles (normal for return from TJ surgery). 2nd half:
.208 opponents batting average
.260 OBP
Solid k/9 and bb/9 ratios
by YouthofToday on Nov 21, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Strange
I believe you TT, but on the link from the above article: http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/players/749/joe-nathan
they only show three games, three innings last year.
by Rock Island Line on Nov 22, 2011 6:02 AM PST up reply actions
Wow
That is not exactly a ringing endorsement of SB Nation’s stats page. His data there for 2011 are woefully incomplete.
"The contract is brought up a lot. What it's going to take to get past it is winning. This organization took on the contract. I'm here to make them look good."~Vernon Wells
by George Kaplan on Nov 22, 2011 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
In addition,
Stats have been mangled like that forever.
Really, if you want complete/up-to-date stats of any kind, look elsewhere.
However, if you’re looking for criticism of whatever team, I’ve found that SBNation is a great starting point.
I think the strategy to not be held hostage to Wilson is smart,
not signing Nathan. Although with the money that relievers are getting, this may end up being a bargain.
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
What a wild idea
That would be like us signing a reliever and putting Jordan Walden in the rotation. Crazy!
On second thought, hmmm…
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
Walden was a starter for a couple of year in the minors.
Couldn’t stay healthy. Converted him to the pen and viola – a good closer for cheap. Turned a soon to be failed prospect into magic pixie dust that lasts for 6 years. Then another team gets the beanstalk of crap for $14 million per year.
Did I mix a metaphor or three there?
How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!
Jim Scully
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by jimmuscomp on Nov 21, 2011 9:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm aware of all that
And, of course, I agree, to a certain extent.
But Feliz really only has two pitches, and the Rangers are ready to commit to him. The jury is out as to whether or not this will work, though. But Texas IS doing it.
Walden, to be accurate, really only had one injury plagued year (but it was bad) – his year at Arkansas. And if he could ever develop his curve to go along withi his slider, he could be effective as a starter. Fangraphs has him throwing an occasional change, but I don’t recall ever seeing it. But, yes, he needs to develop his other pitches – even if he remains our closer.
Like most here, I like Walden and am just fine leaving him as the closer. But the Rangers, in the Maddux era, have had success thinking outside the box, converting relievers into starters. Wilson, Ogando, and now Feliz have all served time in the bullpen, and have done well as starters. Ogando struggled the 2nd half, but his 1st half was very good.
I’m not advocating a change. But it’s just a thought as we consider ALL our options for 2012 and beyond…
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 21, 2011 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
Texas has considered making Feliz a starter before
Not like they just thought it up today.
Feliz is more starter material than Walden, imo.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
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by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
We all know that
Again, just trying to expand our thinking here, much like our wise sage Moondoggy does here.
But the moment I cross over into johnsamo territory, let me know.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Nov 22, 2011 7:43 AM PST up reply actions
All good
Maybe down the road if they find a more capable closer they can stretch Walden out.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
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by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Walden's delivery
Just doesn’t lend itself well to being a starting pitcher. A huge part of being a successful starter is being able to repeat your delivery and it’s kind of hard to repeat your delivery when you jump off the rubber.
by Howie the Halo on Nov 22, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah - I'm not averse to making Walden a starter...
I really wish this team would think outside of the box. But, right now, this team has a top three in the rotation that are all in the top 30 of AL starters. Strengthening our rotation, while a good idea, is not a priority in 2012. Now, if Haren and Santana bolt – there you go.
But right now? We need Walden in the pen – either 7th, 8th or 9th inning. Doesn’t matter to me which one…
How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
VIOLA?
Screw mixing metaphors, you got music on your mind…
by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2011 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
That's probably my favorite misspelling.
I usually say ‘viola’ out loud when I mean voila just to give myself a chuckle.
by Halowitz on Nov 22, 2011 11:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Dammit!
Thanks Rev…
How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
This is going to fail miserably
and I will celebrate
So I have this rock in the back yard that does nothing but sit there so I named it Juan Rivera.
by hobbit_86 on Nov 21, 2011 10:05 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
beat me to it
going to be a big bust and waste of money
I take it you don't have the DOV Secret Decoder Ring
You need to drink more ovaltine
-Quad Fin Rider
by DAD OF VLAD on Nov 21, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
Mr. Nathan,
meet Mr. Right Field Jet Stream.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 21, 2011 10:31 PM PST reply actions
I like Nathan
But he’s not that good anymore, sucks for Texas.
:)
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
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Their version of signing Rodney or Fuentes
Hopefully we have learned from our past mistakes of signing mildly successful free agent relievers who don’t pan out, and hopefully TX will live to regret the same mistake with Nathan.
Trust the Deception
It's actually a pretty smart move
Nathan at $7m per year allows them to move Feliz to the starting rotation. Feliz was a starter in the minor leagues and did well. So for $7m per year, they really got a starting pitcher with stuff good enough to be a top major league closer.
Nathan’s durability is suspect, but it’s also possible that he’s all the way back from the prior injury.
Let’s see what Dipoto has up his sleeve in response….
From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average
Guaranteed $14M/2 is a great deal for Nathan of 2006
The Nathan of 2011 is another story. THAT Nathan was 37, recovering from TJ surgery, and being used as much as a setup man as a closer. It is true that his first half was rocky as he worked his way back into shape (all three of his blown saves were during this time) and that he consequently was used as a setup man for most of the first half.
His second-half peripherals are a little deceiving because most of his appearances in August were to pitch the 9th in games which were already out of reach (blowout losses). It is a lot easier to post good numbers when the game isn’t on the line and the other team has already given the starters the night off.
At the same time, it remains to be seen if Feliz has the stamina and portfolio of pitches to be an effective starter. He was, after all, a starter from the time he was traded to the Rangers from the Braves in the Teixeira deal, and the Rangers converted him to close because he simply couldn’t fool a patient offense over multiple innings in the minors. 100 mph is a gift but not a great gift if control isn’t included; we may well see a lot of 100 mph Ball 4 pitches thrown on 3-1 counts next season, just as in the World Series.
His maturity and composure will be tested as well. We remember that he blew the lead in the 9th of Game 6, but didn’t come back out to save the bottom of the 10th after Hamilton hit the go-ahead two-run home run in the top half of the inning. Stories out of Arlington indicated Washington didn’t send Feliz back out because the latter was an emotional wreck over blowing the lead earlier. His weakness may turn out to be his emotional makeup as much as anything.
The Rangers could still sign Wilson and odd-man-out Feldman, but I think CJ has seen his Arlington future told very clearly in the signing of Nathan. The Rangers (much to my dismay) are apparently determined not to overpay for Wilson. Maybe the next step is a more reasonable and shorter deal for Oswalt, because that rotation is going to need some veteran presence.
"The contract is brought up a lot. What it's going to take to get past it is winning. This organization took on the contract. I'm here to make them look good."~Vernon Wells
i have a source who said
that Maddux told Feliz to pitch the 10th and he refused.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
At first reading the news, it scared me a bit.
After thinking about it, there’s a lot that can go wrong with Texas’ move, too….with both Feliz and Nathan.
Nathan just turned 37. Minnesota didn’t pick up his $15MM option, so Texas gave it to him over two years. As Manatee said, this sounds like something the Angels would have done in prevoious years, but it never seems to work out for us in the end. (Add Takahashi to the list.) Perhaps Texas is looking at Nathan as “their” Scott Downs, while still attempting to re-sign CJ..
Anybody seen Feliz pitch more than two innings at a time lately? He can’t be as good a starter as he was a closer, can he? Neftali @<$.5MM doesn’t sound bad, but I have my doubts that he can become CJ2.
Bold Prediction
The best closer next year will earn less than 4 million, either a resurrected has been or a young nobody.
You heard it here first.
by Rock Island Line on Nov 22, 2011 6:33 AM PST reply actions
No...way!
_
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
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by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
What the?
I was trying to insert the little serious face, oh well.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
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by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Nathan has a phemonal postseason track record. Love this move
They are going to have to watch Feliz’ innings to boot. I am digging it.
Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Waiting on Mathis
One contrary thought
The second year back from Tommy John is usuallythe best. Nathan could have a solid year for Texas.
He's old
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
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by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with this, Jeff. I think he will be fine - in fact, stunning for them.
How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!
Jim Scully
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