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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Rangers give former Twins closer Joe Nathan 2 years/14 million, plus third year club option

LoneStarBawl reports Neftali Feliz is being moved to the starting rotation.

6 months ago Tiny ~MMP~ 49 comments 0 recs  | 

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Rosenthal

Reports it’s for $7 million total.

by YouthofToday on Nov 21, 2011 6:22 PM PST reply actions  

Shocking. He is wrong

Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Waiting on Mathis

by hauldog on Nov 22, 2011 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Relievers are going to get crazy Monopoly money this offseason.

My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 6:31 PM PST reply actions  

Whoa!

I woke up in a great mood; I don't know what the hell happened.

by Monkeyspanked on Nov 21, 2011 6:32 PM PST reply actions  

This move says that the stRangers are out on C.J. Wilson.

Don’t you think?

My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 6:38 PM PST reply actions  

it makes them less vulnerable to hard bargaining

having instituted a backup plan prior to hos signing elsewhere, negotiations cannot dawdle on holding them hostage to a sky-high price tag.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 21, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Dammit, that is a really smart strategy.

My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Really?

Signing a 36 year old RP for two years at 15mm, a guy who pitched three innings last year? Why? To make absolutely sure their ace signs with the Yanks, or even better, their division rivals? I understand the theory, I’m not buying this as a stroke of genius.

by Rock Island Line on Nov 21, 2011 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

speeds things up

cannot be part of a Boras bait and bid.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 21, 2011 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Nathan pitched 48 games and 44.2 innings last year.

I’m not buying the stroke of genius either, mind you. Nathan lost a lot of velocity last year, and put up his highest WHIP in a decade, while being very susceptible to the longball.

Very surprised Texas wants to dole that much money out to a reliever who put up a HR/9 of 1.4 last season — given they have the worst park factor for HRs in the MLB: 1.500.

by Turks Teeth on Nov 21, 2011 7:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh?

FanGraphs had him averaging 92.3 MPH last year, 93.6 in 2009. Unless you consider 1.3 MPH a lot of velo loss…

Nathan was solid after early season struggles (normal for return from TJ surgery). 2nd half:
.208 opponents batting average
.260 OBP

Solid k/9 and bb/9 ratios

by YouthofToday on Nov 21, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Strange

I believe you TT, but on the link from the above article: http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/players/749/joe-nathan
they only show three games, three innings last year.

by Rock Island Line on Nov 22, 2011 6:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow

That is not exactly a ringing endorsement of SB Nation’s stats page. His data there for 2011 are woefully incomplete.

"The contract is brought up a lot. What it's going to take to get past it is winning. This organization took on the contract. I'm here to make them look good."~Vernon Wells

by George Kaplan on Nov 22, 2011 7:44 AM PST up reply actions  

In addition,

Stats have been mangled like that forever.

Really, if you want complete/up-to-date stats of any kind, look elsewhere.

However, if you’re looking for criticism of whatever team, I’ve found that SBNation is a great starting point.

by wumbug on Nov 22, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the strategy to not be held hostage to Wilson is smart,

not signing Nathan. Although with the money that relievers are getting, this may end up being a bargain.

My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General

by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Nov 21, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

What a wild idea

That would be like us signing a reliever and putting Jordan Walden in the rotation. Crazy!

On second thought, hmmm…

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Nov 21, 2011 7:41 PM PST reply actions  

Walden was a starter for a couple of year in the minors.

Couldn’t stay healthy. Converted him to the pen and viola – a good closer for cheap. Turned a soon to be failed prospect into magic pixie dust that lasts for 6 years. Then another team gets the beanstalk of crap for $14 million per year.

Did I mix a metaphor or three there?

How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!

Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home

by jimmuscomp on Nov 21, 2011 9:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I'm aware of all that

And, of course, I agree, to a certain extent.

But Feliz really only has two pitches, and the Rangers are ready to commit to him. The jury is out as to whether or not this will work, though. But Texas IS doing it.

Walden, to be accurate, really only had one injury plagued year (but it was bad) – his year at Arkansas. And if he could ever develop his curve to go along withi his slider, he could be effective as a starter. Fangraphs has him throwing an occasional change, but I don’t recall ever seeing it. But, yes, he needs to develop his other pitches – even if he remains our closer.

Like most here, I like Walden and am just fine leaving him as the closer. But the Rangers, in the Maddux era, have had success thinking outside the box, converting relievers into starters. Wilson, Ogando, and now Feliz have all served time in the bullpen, and have done well as starters. Ogando struggled the 2nd half, but his 1st half was very good.

I’m not advocating a change. But it’s just a thought as we consider ALL our options for 2012 and beyond…

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Nov 21, 2011 9:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Texas has considered making Feliz a starter before

Not like they just thought it up today.

Feliz is more starter material than Walden, imo.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Follow the Chicken on Twitter

by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:20 AM PST up reply actions  

We all know that

Again, just trying to expand our thinking here, much like our wise sage Moondoggy does here.

But the moment I cross over into johnsamo territory, let me know.

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Nov 22, 2011 7:43 AM PST up reply actions  

All good

Maybe down the road if they find a more capable closer they can stretch Walden out.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Follow the Chicken on Twitter

by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Walden's delivery

Just doesn’t lend itself well to being a starting pitcher. A huge part of being a successful starter is being able to repeat your delivery and it’s kind of hard to repeat your delivery when you jump off the rubber.

by Howie the Halo on Nov 22, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah - I'm not averse to making Walden a starter...

I really wish this team would think outside of the box. But, right now, this team has a top three in the rotation that are all in the top 30 of AL starters. Strengthening our rotation, while a good idea, is not a priority in 2012. Now, if Haren and Santana bolt – there you go.

But right now? We need Walden in the pen – either 7th, 8th or 9th inning. Doesn’t matter to me which one…

How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!

Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home

by jimmuscomp on Nov 22, 2011 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

VIOLA?

Screw mixing metaphors, you got music on your mind…

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2011 12:05 AM PST up reply actions  

That's probably my favorite misspelling.

I usually say ‘viola’ out loud when I mean voila just to give myself a chuckle.

by Halowitz on Nov 22, 2011 11:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Dammit!

Thanks Rev…

How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!

Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home

by jimmuscomp on Nov 22, 2011 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

This is going to fail miserably

and I will celebrate

So I have this rock in the back yard that does nothing but sit there so I named it Juan Rivera.

by hobbit_86 on Nov 21, 2011 10:05 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

beat me to it

going to be a big bust and waste of money

I take it you don't have the DOV Secret Decoder Ring
You need to drink more ovaltine
-Quad Fin Rider

by DAD OF VLAD on Nov 21, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Crystal ball says...

that Feliz will be sputtering and out of gas by mid August.

by Doctor Wu on Nov 21, 2011 10:17 PM PST reply actions  

Mr. Nathan,

meet Mr. Right Field Jet Stream.

"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana

by Chzburger Jones on Nov 21, 2011 10:31 PM PST reply actions  

I like Nathan

But he’s not that good anymore, sucks for Texas.
:)

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Follow the Chicken on Twitter

by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:21 AM PST reply actions  

Their version of signing Rodney or Fuentes

Hopefully we have learned from our past mistakes of signing mildly successful free agent relievers who don’t pan out, and hopefully TX will live to regret the same mistake with Nathan.

Trust the Deception

by Rally Manatee on Nov 22, 2011 2:03 AM PST reply actions  

It's actually a pretty smart move

Nathan at $7m per year allows them to move Feliz to the starting rotation. Feliz was a starter in the minor leagues and did well. So for $7m per year, they really got a starting pitcher with stuff good enough to be a top major league closer.
 
Nathan’s durability is suspect, but it’s also possible that he’s all the way back from the prior injury.
 
Let’s see what Dipoto has up his sleeve in response….

From Jeff Mathis' TOPPS card: "Jeff is a defensive catcher, but he can rake it when it counts." Jeff has a lifetime .199 MLB batting average

by mustard_man on Nov 22, 2011 2:46 AM PST reply actions  

Guaranteed $14M/2 is a great deal for Nathan of 2006

The Nathan of 2011 is another story. THAT Nathan was 37, recovering from TJ surgery, and being used as much as a setup man as a closer. It is true that his first half was rocky as he worked his way back into shape (all three of his blown saves were during this time) and that he consequently was used as a setup man for most of the first half.

His second-half peripherals are a little deceiving because most of his appearances in August were to pitch the 9th in games which were already out of reach (blowout losses). It is a lot easier to post good numbers when the game isn’t on the line and the other team has already given the starters the night off.

At the same time, it remains to be seen if Feliz has the stamina and portfolio of pitches to be an effective starter. He was, after all, a starter from the time he was traded to the Rangers from the Braves in the Teixeira deal, and the Rangers converted him to close because he simply couldn’t fool a patient offense over multiple innings in the minors. 100 mph is a gift but not a great gift if control isn’t included; we may well see a lot of 100 mph Ball 4 pitches thrown on 3-1 counts next season, just as in the World Series.

His maturity and composure will be tested as well. We remember that he blew the lead in the 9th of Game 6, but didn’t come back out to save the bottom of the 10th after Hamilton hit the go-ahead two-run home run in the top half of the inning. Stories out of Arlington indicated Washington didn’t send Feliz back out because the latter was an emotional wreck over blowing the lead earlier. His weakness may turn out to be his emotional makeup as much as anything.

The Rangers could still sign Wilson and odd-man-out Feldman, but I think CJ has seen his Arlington future told very clearly in the signing of Nathan. The Rangers (much to my dismay) are apparently determined not to overpay for Wilson. Maybe the next step is a more reasonable and shorter deal for Oswalt, because that rotation is going to need some veteran presence.

"The contract is brought up a lot. What it's going to take to get past it is winning. This organization took on the contract. I'm here to make them look good."~Vernon Wells

by George Kaplan on Nov 22, 2011 4:04 AM PST reply actions  

i have a source who said

that Maddux told Feliz to pitch the 10th and he refused.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Nov 22, 2011 7:38 AM PST up reply actions  

At first reading the news, it scared me a bit.

After thinking about it, there’s a lot that can go wrong with Texas’ move, too….with both Feliz and Nathan.

Nathan just turned 37. Minnesota didn’t pick up his $15MM option, so Texas gave it to him over two years. As Manatee said, this sounds like something the Angels would have done in prevoious years, but it never seems to work out for us in the end. (Add Takahashi to the list.) Perhaps Texas is looking at Nathan as “their” Scott Downs, while still attempting to re-sign CJ..

Anybody seen Feliz pitch more than two innings at a time lately? He can’t be as good a starter as he was a closer, can he? Neftali @<$.5MM doesn’t sound bad, but I have my doubts that he can become CJ2.

by wumbug on Nov 22, 2011 4:07 AM PST reply actions  

Bold Prediction

The best closer next year will earn less than 4 million, either a resurrected has been or a young nobody.

You heard it here first.

by Rock Island Line on Nov 22, 2011 6:33 AM PST reply actions  

No...way!

_

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Follow the Chicken on Twitter

by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

What the?

I was trying to insert the little serious face, oh well.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Follow the Chicken on Twitter

by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Nathan has a phemonal postseason track record. Love this move

They are going to have to watch Feliz’ innings to boot. I am digging it.

Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Waiting on Mathis

by hauldog on Nov 22, 2011 9:27 AM PST reply actions  

One contrary thought

The second year back from Tommy John is usuallythe best. Nathan could have a solid year for Texas.

by JeffJoiner on Nov 22, 2011 10:31 AM PST reply actions  

He's old

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Follow the Chicken on Twitter

by SportsChicken on Nov 22, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this, Jeff. I think he will be fine - in fact, stunning for them.

How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!

Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home

by jimmuscomp on Nov 22, 2011 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

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