Are we done yet?
by ArchAngel_7 on Dec 14, 2011 3:37 AM PST
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The Angels came into the Winter meeting claiming that they would keep payroll at about 140 million. They said to do this they could spend 15 to 20 million. Then they picked up Iannetta and Hawkins adding oh 5 million or so give or take considering Mathis departure. Then came Pujols and CJ. Now CJ signed for 15 million a year and that plus the earlier signings accounted for the original 20 million right?
So then comes Albert’s 25.4 million. We heard in the press that the only consideration Arte had after the TV deal was not going over the luxury tax. So here is where it gets weird.
According to cots baseball contracts CJ’s contract is heavily back loaded. So much so in fact that he only gets 10 million this season and 11 million next year. Then 16 mil, 18, mil and ends with a 20 million payout. Why set it to pay more when he is old?
Another interesting point. The terms of Albert’s contract has not been posted on Cots. Does it start with a 25 million payout or is it back loaded to?
Look at the math. All of the signings except Pujols but including the arbitration money should equal about 135 million according to what we were led to believe. This is taking into account CJ’s reduced 10 million salary in year 1. So 135 million plus Albert’s 25.4 should equal about 160.4 million. That’s a big payroll.
Here is the kicker though. Arte said the Luxury tax threshold was the limit. Well now that is 178 million this year. Interesting.
From all of this the Angels are still about 17.6 million dollars away from their limit! That’s a pretty big cushion to be sitting on isn’t it?
I think The Angels still have some surprises left this year and it is possible that, because posting fees are not considered under the league tax that surprise may just be named Yu Darvish.
Not convinced yet? Here is the last bit. When JeDi became GM he said that the Angels would be looking at all options. He mentioned Pujols and Fielder and we laughed and said no. But in that statement he also said he would be looking at the far east too…
Are you still laughing?
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Sorry up front if I've screwed up somehow
Now I’ll close my eyes and let the bashing begin!
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
By backloading the contract...
…it acts as a pseudo-no trade clause for the years that he’s not protected (no trade clause just for years 1 & 2, partial for 3-5). Whilst I suspect there are moves still to make, they’re of the roster-management type rather than big ticket acquisitions (though I’d welcome a surprise).
I see red people
It's also for payroll flexibility.
Because we have so many financial comitments already for 2012, it works to our benefit to pay him a lower annual salary this year and pay the rest in the upcoming years. The hope is that in a couple years, when we are paying CJ a larger annual salary, we will be able to build our payroll around that. For now, however, we have to work around our existing commitments.
by moralesforpresident on Dec 14, 2011 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
I would rather not be part of a "Nation"
by rmhalofan on Dec 14, 2011 5:30 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Halos Harem?
Your Angels: Telling Pythagoras to go to hell since 2004.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Dec 14, 2011 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
Halo Haren's Harem?
Never Quit , Never Surrender!
by anaheim angels on Dec 15, 2011 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
there is only one nation
Niner Nation
The neighbor is a cranky irish expat. He if wanted no snakes, he shoulda stayed in Ireland.
-Moondoggy
No. That is not acceptable either
Nation has to with the Red Sux. You really want to be associated with those pink hat band waggoning losers from Bahstin?
Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Mathis? Check
Lol. You guys win. No more Nation references!
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
i like HALOS HEAVEN
brilliant name for this blog but also a great sounding name for the Angels faithful.
My wife thinks I read a blog called
Halo Seven.
She asked about the other 2 players.
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
I used to think it was Halos Haven too...
Which is a Horse something or other. Turn off your safe search NSFW.
Just kidding.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at First2Third.net
No way we acquire Darvish
We might make a trade or two. We might sign another cheap reliever. Or we might do nothing. No more big-ticket signings are on the way.
I agree
but would love the team to do something “important” that helps recover the lost draft picks in 2012 from signing Wilson and Pujols. Although than the cash outlay, signing Darvish is like having a top prospect graduate from the farm system
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Yep
There is another guy that I’d like to see get posted, Kyuji Fujikawa. He was in that Sam Miller slideshow several weeks back. He’d be a lot cheaper because he’s a reliever (and a damn good one). His team has refused his posting requests so far, but if they finally relent, he’d be worth a few million in posting fees and a 2-3 year deal. That would pretty much complete our bullpen without costing any draft picks, prospects or a ton of money.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Dec 14, 2011 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Pujols and, to a lesser extent, Wilson were proven commodities
I doubt Arte wants to shell out $100 MM for a mystery (even though all reports are he’s much better than Dice-K).
Unless Arte wants to increase the Angels popularity internationally. But right now, I doubt that’s a huge priority. He’s all about the Battle of Los Angeles.
by stevefinleyallstars on Dec 14, 2011 8:04 AM PST reply actions
I read somewhere (might have been here actually) that the Angels are projected around $170 MM
No idea if that’s true or not, but if it is, we do still have some room. You are right about posting fees not counting, so bidding on Darvish or anyone else who might still be posted wouldn’t hurt. In addition, you can backload the actual contract just like you did with CJ’s and have him start out at $7-8 mil per year. The Red Sox did this with Dice-K, who is now making around $10 mil.
At this point, I think it’d be great if we got Darvish just to keep him away from the Rangers and Yankees…and because it would piss the rest of the league off. After the last several years, I’m enjoying making it rain on their collective parade.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
I can't see this team committing anymore money...
Arte is a businessman and he is in win now mentality, but I don’t see how much more money he’s going to be willing to spend. At the end of the day, he wants to win, but he also wants to turn a profit.
However Dipoto might have an opportunity to be creative in the trade market. A lot of the Halos questions have been addressed this off-season. Hawkins enhances the bullpen that struggled. AP addresses the big bat in the line up and if Morales is healthy its “like a Big Splash signing.” Iannetta is an upgrade over Mathis/Conger. The outfield looks to be immovable. The Halos don’t want to move Petey, can’t move Wells, and shouldn’t move Hunter.
I don’t see any upgrades out there over Kendrick at 2nd and would you want to move Aybar at SS? Lastly 3rd Base is a big question, but if Trumbo can make the right adjustments and can be decent defensively, this team will have a pretty powerful offense.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at First2Third.net
Perhaps and I would not blame him if he was done spending
However, the new deal should provide 100 million a year more then he was getting. Of that he has spent maybe 25-40 million for this season. That is still a lot of cash left and Arte has always poured the teams money back into it.
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
Again, Callaspo is an adequate 3B-man
Good OBP, very good defensive player. We’re fine at 3B
More Howie please...
Nearly every deal
is backloaded, for several reasons. One of which is to give the general manager more money to work with now, and since most GMs do not stick around to feel the rammipercussifications of a multi year deal thats backloaded, the GM usually does not have to deal with the balloon years anyway.
There is no room for Fielder on this team now.
Yu Darvish might be an option depending on how Arte felt his income was affected by his Matsui experiment. If he feels the TC contract justifies the cost and it would bring it significant munniez then its possible. I sense a possible diminishing returns aspect here as a metric fuckton of people will be jamming themselves into the stadium already this season.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
You are right of course
What got my attention was how heavily it was back loaded. I don’t recall seeing a contract doubling it’s payout like that before, from 10.5 million to 20 million.
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
Heavily back loaded?
7.5 million or 10% of the total contract value is back loaded.
Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Mathis? Check
With an almost 100% increase to the actual yearly payout?
That just seemed an odd way to do it.
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
by ArchAngel_7 on Dec 14, 2011 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
From a cash flow perspective I can't see the Angels going for Darvish
The posting fee has to be paid sometime this winter and the Angels have 4 highly regarded starters that comprise what is widely viewed as the best rotation in baseball.
If they were going to surprise us it would not be with the most expensive 5th starter in the history of baseball.
Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Mathis? Check
Backloading
One of the reasons for backloading Wilson’s deal probably was the luxury tax. The Angels have Torii coming off the books after this year, but Vernon Wells still has three more years. Plus, the team has to count on sizable raises for Kendrick & Aybar this winter. Wilson’s big money years will come after a few other contracts come off the books.
I'd rather see Arte save the money for re-signing Santana, Howie & Aybar
Backloaded contracts means there will be less breathing room in the future under the 178 million luxury tax limit. The luxury tax base is going to remain fixed at $178 until 2013, but the tax rate is going to go up from 42% to 50%.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Dec 14, 2011 9:56 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
^^^I see it this way^^^
We keep the wiggle-room, so to able to build the team up in the upcoming seasons. We are falsely below now, because of the back-loading. But have room to improve the team in future seasons as some contracts are fulfilled.
I also don’t see Arte in baseball to make money. He is here to win with HIS TEAM now, and later. To be able to stay at a championship caliber level, and dominate the AL West; AL; The World, for seasons to come. This is Arte’s team/hobby(like golf for some). He has his money. The team can pay for it’s self. Arte is in for the win, not the loss. Money, or record.
I like your thinking eyespy.
We got our 2 big splashes. Time to save money for the guys that gotta get paid later.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
ride or die with jerome .. or jeremy... wait whats his name again?...
ride or die with our nondescript 5th starter.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
My guess:
Arte and Dipoto are presently more interested in a salary-relief trade than another blockbuster signing.
by Rock Island Line on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 PM PST reply actions
How ever it plays out thanks for the views
and for not burning me at the stake. After my last post I was not sure another was a good idea. I got fairly hammered on that one!
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
As long as it is well thought out, no one should be burning you.
That is the usually the only thing I can’t stand. I welcome fresh ideas, but when they have no grounds and it seems like the author didn’t put much effort into it, it bothers me.
I don’t agree with your assessment, but that’s the whole purpose of fanposts: to bounce ideas off other Angels fans.
by moralesforpresident on Dec 14, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
To be fair
as ridiculous as it seems I have caught myself thinking “What if we swoop in on Prince too…..” then shake myself back to reality.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Not until we have an EAS Myoplex
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 14, 2011 2:03 PM PST reply actions
I'm not sure what that is.
But it sounds like it might be contagious
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
Pretty sure it's a weightlifting supplement
We’ll all get jacked and tan!
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Dec 14, 2011 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Speaking of supplement...
…let’s trade for Braun and put him at 3rd
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTqgp6jKbqE
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 14, 2011 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
OT: Looks like the marlins stole the morongo logo
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 14, 2011 3:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking the same thing
yuck
"id take 5th Dimention Wormhole Rivera over Wells any day of the week"
-clover_black
by the king of CERA on Dec 14, 2011 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
Lets say there is a way to unload wells.....
Can u see us trading a combination of trumbo/kmo/abreu and wells to make room on the depth chart and payroll for Prince?
"How much more money do you need?"
-Jered Weaver, 8/23/2011
by bbasher103090 on Dec 14, 2011 3:29 PM PST via mobile reply actions
LOL
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mustard_man on Dec 15, 2011 12:47 AM PST up reply actions
The logical side of me
says that there won’t be anything bigger than a move for salary relief or to restock the farm. The logical side of me also never thought that Albert Pujols would wear a halo. So, I wouldn’t be surprised to wake up tomorrow morning to hear we traded Wells for Longoria straight up
Getting Darvish would be way to good to be true
Weaver
Haren
Wilson
Darvish (who could be a number two on this team)
Santana
Best pitching rotation EVER
Minor League Ball's 2010 Rookie of the Year Poster
If you didn't know by now, my screen name is sarcastic
1997 Braves say hello
2012 Angels wave back
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
I would be so pissed if I was Ervin
/throw no hitter
/get moved down to #5
by Halowitz on Dec 16, 2011 11:11 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
He'd probably shrug and say "F it Let's pitch."
Willits? Check. Reagins? Check. Mathis? Check
by hauldog on Dec 16, 2011 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd look at it like I was getting the first 4 games off,
and then we start the rotation with me as the #1.
Dear Texas: "One, two...........THREE!" The next number IS THREE!!!
by Stirrups on Dec 16, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting.
The Rangers new ace might be a number 4 on the Halos
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
by ArchAngel_7 on Dec 20, 2011 12:37 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know if this true, or not.
SI’s write up on the posting for Yu Darvish, has that his contract will no count towards the MLB Luxury Tax.
I could be wrong about this
but I was always under the impression that the average annual salary was used to compute salary for the purposes of the luxury tax. In other words, if you paid someone $2 million in the first year and $18 million in the second, you were still charged $10 million per season for luxury tax purposes. I know that team options are accounted for in the luxury tax.
Like others on this thread, I think there is no possibility of the Angels signing another big ticket player. I wouldn’t rule out a reliever (although I think it unnecessary), but they’ve made their big signings. I wouldn’t be surprised if we made a trade to dump salary or to move Trumbo for prospects, but I wouldn’t expect payroll to expand much. The backloading of the contract is much more likely for payroll flexibility; we have Hunter, Abreu, Takahashi, Aybar, Kendrick, Ianetta and Morales that could be free agents after the season while we have team options on Haren and Santana for 2013. That’s a lot of cash that could free up after 2012. Hunter and Abreu alone will free up $27 million and my impression is that they can be replaced internally (Trout, Trumbo etc).
This has been a great off-season, but barring a trade, I don’t see much more movement.
What about Oswalt?
I doubt we’re spending more money this year, but if we were to, I wouldn’t mind taking a crack at Oswalt. Then we can trade Santana for a 3B, or keep the 5 all-star quality pitchers and dominate.
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