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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Last Thoughts on Jeff Mathis

First rounder...

Star-divide

Before we turn our attention to the Winter Meetings, let's look at the genesis of Jeff Mathis, the 2001 draft. Jeff was the 33rd player taken in the draft, he was taken as compensation for the Rangers signing Mark Petkovsek on December 10, 2000.

So if you haven't pulled out enough hair over the foibles of Mathis at the Plate, here are the players drafted in 2001 AFTER Mathis who played in the major leagues in 2011:

33rd Pick: Jeff Mathis ...........-2.5 WAR (that is negative two and a half WAR, or 2.5 Wins Below Replacement)

38th Pick: David Wright .........32.6 WAR

48th Pick: Kelly Shoppach ......6.3 WAR ...a catcher!

52nd Pick: J.P. Howell .............2.7 WAR

56th Pick: J.J. Hardy ..............14.0 WAR

57th Pick: Dallas McPherson ..0.1 WAR ...Drafted by the Angels in the 2nd round... weird, huh? If the Angels had just drafted D-Mac in the first round and not taken Maths at all, they would have been better with any player or players occupying that roster spot simply performing at replacement level!!!

59th Pick: Brandon League ...2.9 WAR

63rd Pick: Shelley Duncan ....1.6 WAR

67th Pick: Mike Wilson .........-0.3 WAR

72nd Pick: Dan Haren .........30.9 WAR

77th Pick: Jose Morales ........0.6 WAR

78th Pick: Ryan Theriot .........5.6 WAR

84th Pick: Jeremy Guthrie ...17.4 WAR

87th Pick: Jack Hannahan .....3.7 WAR

98th Pick: Scott Hairston .......3.9 WAR

104th Pick: Joe Mather ..........0.1 WAR

108th Pick: Ricky Nolasco .....4.3 WAR

109th Pick: David Bush .........4.6 WAR

114th Pick: Jeff Keppinger ....3.1 WAR

120th Pick: Josh Barfield .... -0.1 WAR

122nd Pick: Chris Resop ......0.4 WAR ...the guy we traded Kevin Gregg to the Marlins for is still at it and wallowing in mediocrity ...but way over the Mathisian War Ditch.

135th Pick: Kyle Davies .... -2.3 WAR ...we have to get to the penultimate fourth round pick of this draft to get to a player who has stuck it out as long as Mathis with a WAR even close to the anti-sublime depths of the Jeff Mathis WAR Ditch.

And with the 4th pick in the 5th round, the Philadelphia Phillies took...

140th Pick: Ryan Howard ..23.1 WAR

141st Pick: C.J. Wilson ........10.5 WAR

143rd Pick: Jim Johnson ......7.1 WAR

147th Pick: Ryan Rayburn ....4.4 WAR

164th Pick: Skip Schumaker..4.3 WAR

Highlights beyond the 5th round included Edwin Jackson (6th, 10.4 WAR), Rich Hill, John Axford, Dan Johnson, Kevin Youkilis (8th round, 29.5 WAR), Luke Scott (10.6 WAR), pitcher Lance Cormier (negative 2.3 WAR), Geovanny Soto, Stephen Drew and Dan Uggla round out the 11th round. UGH.

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Terrible scouting!

I couldn’t believe some of the names I was reading that were picked after Mathis…..disgusting!

"How much more money do you need?"
-Jered Weaver, 8/23/2011

by bbasher103090 on Dec 5, 2011 12:19 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

I know I am in the minority...

I am going to choose to remember him tearing it up in the playoffs and at the beginning of the season a couple of years ago before he got hurt. I fully expect he will do well somewhere else. just the way it seems to go… no I am not lyle spencer

by K3YEROUT on Dec 5, 2011 12:36 AM PST reply actions  

There are underachievers, which rocked the Halo red

Which I hope will succeed. B.Wood, Dallas, Chaty…. I could name dozens…. But Jeff had over 1K AB’s…. He made over a 1,000,000 bucks… I don’t care what happens to him… As far as his Baseball career!

"Every time I think I’m out, they pull me back in" -George Costanza

by Howie's Batting Title on Dec 5, 2011 12:54 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I’m not hoping he succeeds, just expecting it. Weird karma or something.

by K3YEROUT on Dec 5, 2011 6:13 AM PST up reply actions  

That would make my brain explode!

"Every time I think I’m out, they pull me back in" -George Costanza

by Howie's Batting Title on Dec 5, 2011 8:46 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Blame Hatcher

If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?

by red floyd on Dec 5, 2011 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

That's one way of looking at it

And you could do that for every low-WAR Major Leaguer drafted in the first 10 rounds or so.

Another way of getting at the question of whether Jeff Mathis was a good draft pick is comparing him to the 33rd pick in the modern era of drafts, measuring not just by WAR but also by playing time. There you get a different story.

1998 3187 ABs 10.3 WAR Brad Wilkerson
2000 374 IP 1.6 WAR Dustin McGowan
2001 1201 ABs 2.5 WAR Jeff Mathis
2006 584 ABs -1.3 WAR Emmanuel Burriss
2003 522 ABs -0.4 WAR Omar Quintanilla
1996 Matt McLendon -
never played
1997 Kyle Kane — never played
1999 Jeff Heaverlo — never played
2002 Matthew Whitney — never played
2004 Justin Orenduff — never played
2005 John Drennen — hit .240 in AA last year at age 24
2007 Jon Gilmore — hit .283/.351/.417 in AA last year at 22
2008 Bradley Holt — 8-8, 4.71 ERA at AA last year at 24
2009 Steven Baron — .197/.266/.323 in A ball at 20
2010 Mike Kvasnicka — .260/.328/.368 in A ball at 22
2011 Kevin Matthews — 28.2 IP of 2.20 ERA in low minors at 18

So Jeff Mathis has been one of the most successful 33rd picks in recent history.

by mattwelch on Dec 5, 2011 3:49 AM PST reply actions  

It's not just how his counterparts are doing

It’s also how the team used him and that’s on the manager. After all, a lot of those guys could have racked up some negative WARs if their manager had played them all the time. Pay me a million bucks and I’ll happily go and strike out every at bat. Other organizations realized that they had picked poorly and weren’t stupid enough to call up their busts. Mathis getting 1200 ABs doesn’t make him better than guys who didn’t play, it makes the organization look stupid for playing him.

by GoAngels! on Dec 5, 2011 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't buy that

Another organization not named the Angels will be paying Jeff Mathis somewhere within shouting distance of $1.7 million to play in the big leagues this year, and were happy enough at the prospect of doing so that they traded their best 2011 AAA starter.

Chris Smith (7th pick overall in 2001) didn’t get anywhere near close AAA. Jeff Mathis was a good AAA player at age 22. (Sadly, it was pretty much all downhill from there, in terms of offense.) Yes, he got the kind of breaks Brian Harper could have only dreamed about in his 20s, but I would bet his minor league career was eons ahead of 95% of his draft contemporaries who didn’t make it.

by mattwelch on Dec 5, 2011 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, baseball drafts are kinda unique

first, you’re mixing HS and college players and then, you’ve also got an incredibly robust developmental system that you’re plugging players into. I get the point being illustrated by both posts but I don’t think using the draft is the best way to make it.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Dec 5, 2011 4:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I Get That He's Probably A Nice Guy

I am sure I’d like him lots. I just don’t think he should play Major League Baseball, at least not for a team that fancies itself a contender.

R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel

by Kernel on Dec 5, 2011 6:36 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Future of Mathis

Considering how he’s regarded higher than any combination of numbers, new or old, can possibly rate him, Mathis will probably be around this game a long time. I expect he’ll be managing somewhere by the time he’s 35.

Napoli isn't a catcher. He's a God-King.

by RallyMonkey5 on Dec 5, 2011 6:56 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I agree.

I refuse to believe that his being allowed to play as much as he has was simply the result of perceived stupidity or “man lust” by Scioscia. It simply does not compute.

by wumbug on Dec 5, 2011 8:17 AM PST up reply actions  

The MLB draft is pointless

I take it you don't have the DOV Secret Decoder Ring
You need to drink more ovaltine
-Quad Fin Rider

by DAD OF VLAD on Dec 5, 2011 8:51 AM PST reply actions  

Wel that's not true.

Unlike this cat, my love for the LAA will never die.

by NathanielS on Dec 5, 2011 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Mark Petkovsek

he signed my hat once after a game in the Angels parking lot. Always liked him for that.

That hat is now torn to shit and his autograph is fading. Nevermind that it was of the winged-A, periwinkle blue Disney days anyway.

Anyway, my point is, that hat is worth more than Jeff Mathis should have been in a trade.

This is a sig.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 5, 2011 10:22 AM PST reply actions  

Hindsight is 20/20

You could do a list like this for every year. This is why scouting for MLB is so difficult, it hard to project how people will mature and what kind of player they will be in 5 years.

It’s hard to find a team in baseball whose history isn’t littered with the wreckage of “Future All Stars”.

by Halo-Centric on Dec 5, 2011 1:32 PM PST reply actions  

Players from the 2001 draft who never made it to the bigs

6 Josh Karp (topped out at AAA, 163 IP, 5.91 ERA)
7 Chris Smith (A, 26 IP)
9 Colt Griffin (AA, 87 IP)
11 Kenny Baugh (AAA, 299 IP, 5.21 ERA)
12 Mike Jones (AAA, 33 IP)
14 Jake Gautreau (AAA, 1182 PA, .238/.299/.415, second base)
16 Kris Honel (AA, 175 IP)
17 Dan Denham (AA, 445 IP)
27 Alan Horne (AA, 175 IP)
28 Justin Pope (AAA, 36 IP)
29 Josh Burrus (AAA, 22 PA, LF)
31 Bryan Bass (AA, 640 PA, 3B)
32 Michael Woods (AA, 515 PA, 2B)

As a reminder, Jeff Mathis in AAA hit a comparatively respectable .273/.328/.445 across 1203 plate appearances. What’s more — if you can believe it — there were two players drafted ahead of him who made the big leagues but put up an even more negative WAR — Dewon Brazelton (3rd pick overall, minus 4.0 WAR in 271 innings pitched), and the marvelously named John Wesley Van Benschoten (negatory 4.9 in just 90 IP, thanks to a stupefying 9.20 ERA).

So basically Jeff Mathis has been a clearly better baseball player than nearly half (15) of the 32 dudes drafted ahead of him in 2001.

by mattwelch on Dec 5, 2011 4:10 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for putting that into context.

Official prediction: The Angels will win the AL west this season.

by RexTookMyStash on Dec 5, 2011 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for ALCS game 5 vs the yanks in 09

Good luck in Canada.

The score dictated they pass

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 5, 2011 5:32 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

I wish him nothing but consistency in his future.

One way or another, he will make his mark in the record books.

"Grantland Rice, the great sportswriter, once said 'It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.'
Well, Grantland Rice can go to hell as far as I am concerned." - Gene Autry

by Angelsfan015 on Dec 5, 2011 8:59 PM PST reply actions  

3 things coming to mind when closing the Angel book on Mathis

1) He sucked, but he was an Angel and I wish him the best in Toronto. I feel a little bad for all of the venom he got from HH. It’s not his fault our manager played him all the time when he shouldn’t have.

2) Away from Hatcher, he may become decent with the bat. .240 decent.

3) It is clear from this trade who is in charge in the front office. It was not just seeing Mathis go, but the signal that JDP is firmly in charge that has got me so optimistic for the future.

by LosAngel on Dec 5, 2011 11:49 PM PST reply actions  

So add those points together...

…and you get JeDi doing something about Hatcher.

Dear Texas: "One, two...........THREE!" The next number IS THREE!!!

by Stirrups on Dec 6, 2011 8:47 AM PST up reply actions  

I would agree with your first point if he didn't complain about Conger getting more playing time than he did in the begining of last season.

Vernon Wells 2011 Stats (.218/.248/.412) and 2010 road stats (.224/.299/.400). The front office shouldn't have been surprised.

by snowhor on Dec 6, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

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