Maybe 2012 is what we should be excited for!
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 6:58 AM PST
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PrintWith all these talks about about Albert not resigning with the cards and CC possibly walking out of the bronx it got me thinking what if. I know are off seasons have been terrible since tony came into power. But for one second lets pretend he has had a plan all along! We have roughly 45 million coming off the books next season. GMJ 11 million will be his last check before having to hit the unemployment line. Scott kazmir will be outta our heads unless we choose to pick up his 13 million option. Bobby Abreu 9 million coming off unless another option is picked up or he reaches his 550 PA's. Joel Pinero 8 million coming off. Fernando Rodney and his 5.5 million gone. I know we need to keep some in house talent like Jered Weaver and Morales, both have one or two years of arbitration left. Anyways what if the front office said alright its go time, and went out and got albert and maybe CC. It's crazy to wrap you head around I know. But i've been up since 4am without coffee and I thought what the hell!
This needs to happen. We have been the joke of the off season for to long! We have a baseball teamed that is valued at half a billion dollars, when should we act like it? We should have at least one spot on the rotation if not two in the pitching rotation, pending Kaz's option. The 5th spot could go to bell, palmer, or reckling could finally steal it in '12 spring. But how bout the other spot? It's no secret CC is a california boy. If we could steal him from the bronx like they have stolen players from us, It would be gigantic! A rotation of CC, Haren, Weaver, santana, and bell would tower over that of philly, SF, Boston or any team in baseball! As for Albert. I know this will be extremly difficult to accomplish. St. Louis has money and they dont mind throwinh it around (matt holliday). But if some how we could still this guy could you imagine! We could platoon kendry at dh and some OF. I know he depends a lot. But I say do it! You have to invest money into a product in order to make money, it's as simple as that! We could have a real scary lineup in 2012.
1.) Trout, CF
2.) izzy or callapso 3b
3.) Albert 1b
4.) Morlaes DH
5.) Wells LF
6.) Hunter RF
7.) Kendrick 2b
8.) Conger or Wilson C
9.) Aybar SS
Now I know this isn't mlb the show 2011 you cant just make fantasy teams, but the yankees and red sox do so why the hell not! Artie says he wants to win. Win the fans first by showing your commitment to putting a product on the field we would want to watch! If your reading this i appologize for my grammer and or spelling errors. My mind thinks faster then I can type this early. Also If we lose out on albert I know prince fielder will also be on the market, but being a Boras client I just assume he would be out of the picture! Im very much looking forward to this season. So lets get some games going soon!
Go Angels...
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CC will be 31 in 2012 and the only team that will pay him more than NYY is NYY
Vernon Wells is also eating up 23 million of that cleared payroll from now on. We’ll still have room, but not as much as we would have otherwise (unless Arte really doesn’t care about payroll limits).
Dream outcome for next Angels off-season: Pujols; Darvish; Weaver extension.
More realistic outcome for next Angels off-season: Edwin Jackson; Weaver extension.
In all honesty, I’d rather spend money on a younger pitcher like Darvish or Jackson and lock up Weaver rather than sign CC to an even bigger deal than we offered 2 years ago. The only player I’d break the bank for is Albert Pujols – the best player of this era. It would be nice to get CC and Pujols, but I don’t think it’s even remotely likely at this point.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
Darvish?
Because Japanese pitchers with HUGE posting fees have worked out so well?
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
This team just traded two productive players and $70 mil for 32-year-old Vernon Wells
Do you really think a $40-50 mil posting fee is gonna scare them from signing the top pitcher and biggest sports celebrity in Japan if they decide they’re interested? ;)
More to your point, Dice-K was pretty good in 2007 and ridiculous in 2008. Since then he’s been having injury problems, yet he managed to turn in an acceptable 2010 for a back-end starter. Hiroki Kuroda has done fairly well too since joining the Dodgers. Darvish is better – both statistically and according to scouts – than either pitcher was in Japan and still has a few years to go before hitting 30.
The Angels will likely have 2 rotation spots opening up for 2011 and possibly another after 2012; they’ll have at least some money to spend; Arte likes new markets and new fans; they seriously looked at him when he was in high school. The Angels may not be the most favored team to get involved, but the reasons for them to do so will certainly be there.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 15, 2011 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have high expectations for Darvish
Also the near 100 mil posting fee is not appealing to me
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
I wouldn't be anywhere near $100 mil
There is skepticism out there that it would even reach $50 mil.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 15, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
If he is better than Dice-K like you say $55 mil was his "conversation" starter.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
I'm just passing along what I've read/been told by folks with more insight than me
The highest bid will win. If NYY and BOS aren’t involved, someone like the Tigers could easily top the bidding well south of $50 mil. And I definitely would have taken 2007 and 2008 Dice-K and would take Kuroda over Kazmir in our rotation right now.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 16, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Didn't we see this earlier in the off season?
It’s just as lame now as it was back then.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
wells remaining salary after this year will be 21 million
not 23. I dont see darvish leaving the island! and if so the competion for him will insane. Then you have to compete with the yanks the sox etc etc. Edwin jackson doesnt make sense to me we already have ervin santana do we want another one? We need guys that eat innings to protect the young pen and someone who can win playoff games! jackson doesnt offer either! We both agree weaver has to get an extension. But unfortunatly the way our FO works we will probably end up with a 35 year aramis to play 3rd base three years to late! But perhaps we just put all the eggs in one basket and just shoot for albert and maybe heath bell and trade for another starter.
Wells will only make $21m, not $23m?
F***, sign them all, no problem.
"I’m not really concerned about the Bill Jameses and the sabermetric people." --- Tony Reagins
"No sh*t" --- Collective response on HH
by snowhor on Feb 15, 2011 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Last reports say Yu plans to come over in 2012...
And stayed to wrap up his divorce. Bidding for him would actually be less complicated than bidding for a typical free agent. Every team has 4 days to submit 1 bid and 1 bid only. Arte and Reagins have to like that – there’s already a deadline attached!
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 15, 2011 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
now is that bid just to talk to him?
like the sox had to pay like 50 million just to be the first to talk to him? do we wanna pay a rookie that kinda money… just kidding say his stats give him what he wants! tell him we will get him a B of A hello kitty debt card for him
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Yep
You pretty much have to decide what you think other teams will bid and then submit what you think will beat that. If you win, the bid amount is paid all at once and then you negotiate a contract with the player. So, if the Angels did win they would pay a lot up front for one year and then whatever his contract is the rest of the way.
I think the Sox are going to be busy with A-Gon talks, plus their rotation is kind of full and already expensive. The Yankees could be involved especially if CC leaves, but I’ve also heard Cashman isn’t a fan of posting fees. Personally, I think two of his biggest suitors will be the Tigers and Mets, followed possibly by the Nationals, Rangers and Angels.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 15, 2011 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
never count out the sox
they are not afraid to throw money out there they could find a trade for an aging beckett or an injury disappointing dice K. As for the yanks they know they need pitching and with andy hanging it up opens a spot, plus a spot opens if CC bounces! Then you have to worry about the yanks going over cashmans head like they did with soriano! Seems risky but they need to do something! Darvish would bring a lot of media and attention to the club. I like that part of it! plus he is really young and doesnt have the innings logged on his arm like dice k did when he came!
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
!!! J WEAV Express !!!
This should be your screen name
by AlohaHalofan on Feb 15, 2011 3:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
just getting the facts straight...
everyone likes the facts straight! that extra 2 million automatically goes to mathis for being mathis!
Another $2m seems like too small of a raise for Mathis.
$3.7m hardly seems fair, especially considering that his recently traded backup makes over $5m. If a bad CERA can get you $5m+, then a good CERA should be able to get you Arod money.
"I’m not really concerned about the Bill Jameses and the sabermetric people." --- Tony Reagins
"No sh*t" --- Collective response on HH
so basically 2012 look for mathis to get...
Mauer kinda money and extension! I mean they were both drafted the same year. Thats gotta get you paid!
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
2012
Pujols for 10 300mill and CC for 6 160
Big Daddy J
by Halo fann 2002 on Feb 15, 2011 9:34 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I wish money grew on trees
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
Then it would be worth oranges.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Abreu will likely be back (unless traded), and we have a LOT of arb raises coming
That $45 million could get soaked up right quick. Still, it’s true that other deep-pocketed teams are spoken for at 1B.
True.
Next year is when we’re gonna have to rely on the next wave of prospects. Guys like Tyler Chatwood, Trevor Reckling, and Mike Trout should be about ready to burst onto the scene, and we need them to. Financially speaking, it’s about time our young guys step up. Otherwise, we’ll continue to over-spend on free agents. The key to success for any major league team that is not NYY is in having as many cheap, productive players as possible on your roster at the same time, and we don’t hve that right now.
by moralesforpresident on Feb 15, 2011 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
hopefully
trumbo can just come blazing out of the gates and takes the DH spot from bobby… Extreme long shot I know but it would be nice to see somebody from our system produce, not named morales or weaver!
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 10:30 AM PST reply actions
If Pujols and CC are truly available in 2012, then here's what will happen:
Reagins/Moreno will make an unreasonable, time-limited offer that both will reject; Reagins will then sign a different, less desirable FA with a bloated offer than would have landed Pujols or CC if he offered it them in the first place.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
WHY ARE WE GIVING UP ON 2011?
Every single f’n team has a legit chance of winning it all, the Pirates and the Red Sox both start at 0-0! Did we think we had a chance going into 2002? NO. Did the Giants think they had a chance in 2010? NO! But guess what happened?
you take the pirates
ill take the sox 1000 bucks
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm far from giving up on this season!
I very much think we win the west again. Im just saying maybe thats why they didn’t blow a crap load of money this year! oh wait they did on wells.. I have no idea what they are thinking! just hoping big picture their is a big player coming to anaheim
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
I am excited for 2012 because
of the 10th anniversary of 2002 (and will try to get to ANA in 2012 instead of this year – because of money, renting a car, getting settled into a job – starting in March)
CC and Albert will be in Texas before we know it
Lance Berkman= Awesome, CJ Wilson= Jack@$$
Minor League Ball's 2010 Rookie of the Year Poster
If you didn't know by now, my screen name is sarcastic
I don't follow your logic
How could any team other than the Yankees afford both players. And CC is not gonna opt out of his contract.
"Jeff Mathis is like Robb Quinlan without the sex appeal" - Sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher
He would be stupid not to...
he can get more money if he does!
by J WEAV Express on Feb 15, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
the yankees...
He can get renegotiate a new contract. The nationals just gave werth 126 million you don’t think CC can get more blood from the stone! Hell you know texas wants an ace!
That would be great if he signed there
He’s gotten lit up in Texas over most of his career if I recall correctly.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 15, 2011 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
The payroll space is an illusion
The Angels are already looking at about $110 million in payroll for 2012 just to retain all their players still under team control. Abreu’s option is very likely to vest and push it closer to $120 million. Then the Angels will probably need to add at least one middle-class starting pitcher from the outside to replace Pineiro and Kazmir. So without delving too deeply into hypotheticals, we’ve essentially maxed out the $130-$135 million in salary that the Angels can sustain with their revenues.
Pujols, Fielder, Gonzalez, and Sabathia are all pipe dreams. Those ships sailed the same day Vernon Wells entered the harbor. DeJesus would be nice, but there’s nowhere to put him, and Rickie Weeks could play himself out of the Angels’ budget this season. Even Edwin Jackson is a stretch. No, it’ll probably be Aramis Ramirez or bust for 2012.
^^ This ^^
The payroll NOT commited to Tex a couple of years ago was eaten up this offseason by arb eligible player raises alone, just on the status quo WITHOUT Tex (assuming Naps was retained).
Money “coming off the books” being some kind of free future resource is a chimera.
"I'm not really concerned about the Bill Jameses and the sabremetric people..." - Tony Reagins
by Stirrups on Feb 15, 2011 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
^^ That ^^
Even conservative estimates for next year’s arb raises yield a projected opening day 2012 payroll of $124M.
What is up with all this talk about “money coming off the books?”
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Which begs the question
at what point do you look at some of these team-controlled players and ask if they should really be soaking up so much payroll?
Absolutely true.
We are in competition with the Mets to be the most expensive shitty team.
"I’m not really concerned about the Bill Jameses and the sabermetric people." --- Tony Reagins
"No sh*t" --- Collective response on HH
I think its important that this line of reason doesn't mis-inform others....
The Angels do not have a self-imposed salary cap .The idea that they can only sustain 135 million in salary is unfounded. They have not said that there is a cap. Why all of this salary analysis? This team isn’t opposed to paying players salaries or going over certain amounts. They make judgements about whether or not a player has a certain value and if they are comfortable making commitments for the years the player asks for. If anything, GMJ and Wells prove they don’t have a problem spending. If they had a free billion for a season, they’re not going to change their valuation concept. Until they tell us that they’re working with a cap, that certain players bring down their player acquisition goals, how can we judge that their current payroll restricts ANY future moves? I think it’s irresponsible to suggest that Vernon Wells prevents this club from getting other players until we see it happen. It’s as if these guys sat in the office, pulled the trigger on Wells and didn’t do any of the future calculations being done on here. As if Arte said. “Well that’s it boys. No Weaver, no Morales, no free agents. After this we stay pat for four years.” Really? To spend all that time killing the aspirations of the fans without a justified reason is premature. Talking salary is fun, but you’re working with assumptions that have no basis in reality here…we won’t sign long term deals for the wrong people, doesn’t mean we can’t.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Feb 17, 2011 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
Well, when the owner publicly states that when payroll goes above the $130m range is when the team starts taking a loss, then isn't if obvious that he can't sustain payroll above that amount for multiple seasons?
"I’m not really concerned about the Bill Jameses and the sabermetric people." --- Tony Reagins
"No sh*t" --- Collective response on HH
I heard what Wally's World heard...
Read below.
It’s the number one thing they’ve been asked since Wells came and they’ve flat out denied it.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Feb 17, 2011 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
are you arguing simply to argue?
you really think that Artie will spend limitless amounts when its pretty damn clear that he won’t? Did you not read anything he said this season regarding what he thought about how much money Crawford got? Do you really think that Arte has limitless funds to pull from to get any player he wants? If that were true, Sabathia would be an Angel right now. So would Beltre.
and you are flat out wrong when you say you don’t think that the committed dollars to current players plays a factor in future deals. Regardless of what you think, Arte still wants to make money out of his investment in the team. I don’t really see how this is hard to understand, along with the idea that they do have a limit as to how much they’ll spend.
you come off like you’re trying to speak the truth to those who may buy in to some made up lies regarding the teams payroll and what it could mean for future flexibility. But really you just come off as someone who likes to argue with Suboptimal.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Feb 17, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
I'll ignore the stupid part of your post...
But what I find it hard to ignore is this shit where a group of people are being mis-informed. I’ll ignore it to a point, but as a fan I don’t accept it and I don’t think others should. It’s true that the poster you mention seems to draw my responses, but is because of sitting back watching him squash every positive thing that comes out of people’s mouths thats hopeful, To suggest that a huge line of potential people are out of range or that the “ship has sailed” on getting players because we signed Wells isn’t untrue, ITS A LIE. Calling the potential a “pipedream”? I think its better for hopeful fans to listen to the owner and GM when they say this deal won’t hurt new acquisitions so they be informed fans, not following lackies like you are. No one needs u to defend them. His complaint about Crawford and others was about the longevity of the financial commitment, not the annual amounts. He made that clear, but dissing him and TR is so much fun and it bonds you’re groupthink you wouldn’t know what to do without being able to diss them. Fact is, we have money to sign people, no matter how much shit you talk.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Feb 17, 2011 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
which part of my post was stupid, exactly?
because it seems the only part you responded to was my last 2 sentences. when I said that if they had limitless resources, as you contend, they would have signed Sabathia, was that stupid? was I stupid when I said that Arte wants to make money from his investment? or that committed dollars will impact future spending? because you didn’t reply to any of that, you only responded to the part about Subop. and whats funny is that I’m pretty sure that was the part you were refferring to as stupid, and yet thats the only part you really responded to.
to call me a lacky is just plain backwards. you are the one buying in to everything the FO is telling you, and then going so far as to get into battles with posters defending them. If anyone is a lacky, its you buddy.
I get it, you stand for truth, justice and the Angel way, and are determined to stop people like Subop from GIVING HIS OPINION on a Angels blog 99% dependant on the trading of opinions on the team. You act as if people are getting brainwashed by the falseness regarding the team and their finances, and base it on A) a comment given by the FO in reaction to 99% of the baseball world crapping on their decision, and B) a few baseball writers saying 4 months ago that the team should sign everyone, even though that was and is completely ludicrous.
keep fighting the good fight. I’m sure one day the FO will reward you with the in-game seat upgrade, or direct the Strike Force girls to keep shooting towels in your direction.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Feb 17, 2011 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
There wasn't one opinion in the post I responded to...
Not one. It was all proposition of fact….
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Feb 17, 2011 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
I could sit here and go through his comment
detailing how you are wrong, but it seems that unless someone emphatically states “In my opinion…” before they write something you assume that when they talk they are attempting to state only facts. Which is just plain weird IMO.
it has become clear that you are a waste of my time. I’m done with you.
good day
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Feb 17, 2011 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Arte and Tony made it clear that aquiring Vernon would not limit the team in any way.
I heard them speak. If you don’t believe them, that is fine. You write as if you are the team accountant. (maybe you are?)
by Wally's World on Feb 17, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
isn't that precisely what they'd say
once the entire MLB universe came crashing down on their decision to take on one of the worst contracts in baseball? of course they are going to say that the exhorbant amount of money they just decided to take on won’t have any effect on future deals. what else would you expect them to say? “Yes, we did take on an albatross of a contract when we traded for Vernon. and yes, this will now inhibit our ability to sign potential FAs over the next 4 seasons. Next question.” That sure would have gone over well.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Feb 17, 2011 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
So would taking on Crawford for 7 years/142 million
hamstring them? Most critics don’t think Crawford is the only offseason move they should have made. How is it that they were supposed to sign Crawford AND Beltre ( (and some say Soriano) which would be 230+ million, but since they signed Vernon for 86 million they’re broke?
I think too many fans have an inferiority complex and worry too much about what others think about our team. We get so little press that we are embarrassed when the national news clowns us, so we buy into they’re kool-aid. That’s no reason to turn on our club if they say, not to the national media, but to us fans directly, 20m or so fo 4 years doesn’t hurt us, but 230+ million over 7 years for two guys makes us uncomfortable given our assessment of the players.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Feb 17, 2011 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not going to get into a back and forth
regarding what critics thought they should or should not do. That is pointless. I brought up the negative press from the Wells deal as a reason as to why they would publicly state that the financial commitment would not hinder their ability to sign players in the future.
for you to use a few (yes, few, not most) random writer’s comments that they should have signed Crawford and Beltre and Soriano and whoever the hell else as a source for you to believe that they have the financial wherewithal to spend an infinite amount of dollars on whoever they want is moronic. Not once did anyone from the Angels FO say anything remotely related to them being able to sign all of those players, so I’m not sure why you would even bring that up as if it gave some credence to your point.
and I also find it funny that you state you don’t care what the media says about the team when they clown on them, but when they say they should buy every good free agent on the market, you seem to eat it up and buy into the idea that they have the ability to do so.
That’s no reason to turn on our club if they say, not to the national media, but to us fans directly, 20m or so fo 4 years doesn’t hurt us
and the above quote doesn’t make sense to me. who has turned on the club due to those remarks? who has turned on the club period? We are still on this thread almost daily talking about the team, aren’t we? just because many do not think it was a good trade does not mean they have “turned their back on the club.” It simply means that they do not like the deal and think that it was a stupid move, and now question the FO’s ability to make smart baseball decisions since they feel this wasn’t one.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Feb 17, 2011 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
You're right about one thing...
I am taking them at their word that the Wells deal does not limit their ability to resign/extend Weaver and Morales or to seek major free agents. If they screw me then I’m a sucker I guess. My other teams are the Lakers and Steelers so with all three I’ve been spoiled and yes, I make it a point to trust the FO when they deserve it. I don’t think they’re above criticism, they’ve made mistakes; Beltre was a mistake, GMJ was a mistake, not trading Wood the last three years a mistake, not extending Weaver asap would be a mistake. I simply believe them when they say they have the resources. I mean can you imagine when Arte says “What are they worried about? It’s our money.” what he mean? He’s trippin because people are telling him what he doesn’t have. I say if he says he has it, debate and opinion go out the door until otherwise proven.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Feb 17, 2011 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
Have you ever wondered for whom this particular document was written?
And my two favorite parts are:
1) on page 10 they take the time to call out that the Angels have a song, and that this (unnamed) song is not subject to any amortization expense, because it lives in our hearts forever.
2) the Summary Table on page 9, where we see the net income in 2008 was $40.4 million, and in 2009 it became nearly $153 million. Although their overall revenues dropped ~$60 mill, their overall costs dropped ~$170 mill. Booya.
"Failure is nature's plan to prepare you for great responsibilities" - Napoleon Hill, anticipating Tony Reagins' needs to plan for a parade in 2011.
You are aware, of course,
that the Summary Table on page 9 refers only to Angels Baseball LP’s Investment in Unconsolidated Affiliates – four affiliates in which ABLP has only a minority interest? And that the numbers shown therein have relatively little effect on “the team’s” actual cash incomes?
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
No doubt.
But, considering how the rest of the economy did in 2008/2009, those investments that “The Partnership” parked money within did very, very well indeed. I know I sure could have used some of that action back then!
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
Arte is still making bank
But there’s not a lot of money left in places where he can spend it on payroll.
From my perspective,
that table provides a peak at just one tiny corner of Arte’s business acumen. We begin with merely the portion of his finances that are tied up in baseball, in the form of that partnership. And a portion of that partnership has some investments outside the team itself, in those affiliates. And those affiliates, in the middle of the largest economic crater in 80 years, kicked ass. Not a bad gig.
And it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to learn that those “affiliates” are actually other lines of Arte’s own empire.
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
Oh, I have no doubt that they are
Just shows you how lucrative the baseball business has been in the last ten years. Arte’s not in it to make money off of the operating income: a $10 million annual profit is chump change to him. That said, the team needs to be profitable in order to maintain its valuation. He’d get a very angry phone call from Bud if he had to support the Angels with his other assets over an extended period of time. The idea (which I realize is not your idea) that Arte can spend an arbitrary amount of his fortune on payroll is silly.
Yeah.
My idea on that page is that while I was taking a 35% devaluation of my retirement funds, and I am only now getting back to those levels 3 years later (with 3 years of lost time that will never be recovered), Arte was fully aware of just how to make sure his money was doing just fine.
Meanwhile, we got ourselves a song!!
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
The last three years have been a good time to be in grad school
Savings? What are those?
But you’ve hit on the nature of my unresolved conflict with professional sports. They’re kind of a scam. I hate doing business with Comcast and Verizon, but sports teams have fanatical customers and overwhelmingly supportive local governments. Why people working-class people voluntarily give money to Don Sterling, I will never know.
I’m starting to be of the opinion that all sports franchises should be municipalized. Fuck these billionaires, I want my team to be my team. The Packers do it, sort of. I’ll admit that my thoughts on this are half-baked at the moment, however.
Holy crap, NO!
You want city councils running sports franchises? With taxpayers serving as the only backstop to their particular brand of dumbassery?
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
No, I wouldn't want cities running sports franchises
But I would want more of the money they generate directly returned to the community in some form. The indirect “economic stimulus” is proven bullshit.
My youngest son is studying to be a vet.
I know precisely what is worrying you about your financial future.
For my part, I struggle to wrap my brain around the role that sports plays in society, period. Why do we, collectively, need such a release/distraction? What kind of mass psychosis would we suffer through without this kind of outlet? And, if this is a serious social need to maintain some aspect of the human condition, these billionares truly have us by the balls.
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
Deep down, people need a release and a sense of belonging
This article does a nice job summarizing the idea. Whether it’s sports or another type of mass gathering, there is something very alluring about being part of an event experienced by thousands and thousands of people. It’s something all of us seem to need in one form or another to escape the monotony of our daily lives.
In my opinion, the more involved people are able to be in the event, the more satisfying/addicting it is. Going to any Angels game will always be high on my list, but that first playoff game I went to – with the shaking of the stands and the unified chanting of 40K people – was an experience on another level. Even on TV it’s more intense than a normal game. For a few years until 2010, it became an annual ritual that I waited for all year with a feeling akin to religious fervor. Likewise, I feel much more connected in the pit at a smaller show in a concrete room than I do at some big arena rock or pop act. The playoff game and the small show seem to allow a greater level of involvement and therefore a greater sense of release and satisfaction. Without venues like this, I’m not sure what I’d do…be driven to boredom and insanity most likely.
Basically, if we didn’t have sports, music and other communal events, the streets and countryside would probably be filled with bands of disillusioned men and women wandering aimlessly, drinking and pillaging as they went. Yes, I’m saying if baseball and punk rock didn’t exist, I might turn into a pirate. Would this actually happen – who knows? I don’t really want to find out, though.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 18, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
pirate?
sounded more like a zombie apocolypse
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Feb 18, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Well
They’d be actively aware of their pillaging and other actions, they just wouldn’t have any long-term plan or destination. Zombies lack the former.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Feb 18, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Never saw that before, . . so its true!@ you are the team accountant!
I figure that those two top level MLB men have a good idea what they are doing, and did actually think it through, especially in regards to future free agent acquisitions.
by Wally's World on Feb 18, 2011 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
Good stuff, but one problem.
Bourjos will not ride the bench so Trout can start.
"Erstad says he's got it, Erstad...MAKES THE CATCH! The Anaheim Angels are the champions of baseball!" - Rory Markas, October 27, 2002
by Of Maicer and Men on Feb 15, 2011 5:22 PM PST reply actions
if bourjos doesnt hit he will absolutely sit so trout can play.
If bourjos competes with wood and mathis for the “most inept with a bat award” I doubt he will get more than this season to show he belongs as anything more than reggie willits replacement. Trout is just as fast and looks like he will be a much better offensive force.
by Balls and Strikes on Feb 15, 2011 6:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Anybody who thinks that Pujols will sign for less than 5 years is an idiot.
Anybody who thinks that the Halos will sign anybody for more than 4 years has not been paying attention.
"I'm not really concerned about the Bill Jameses and the sabremetric people..." - Tony Reagins
Of course not.
We ARE an austerity program.
"Erstad says he's got it, Erstad...MAKES THE CATCH! The Anaheim Angels are the champions of baseball!" - Rory Markas, October 27, 2002
by Of Maicer and Men on Feb 15, 2011 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe.
I figure I’ll hold him to his word until he proves wrong. It’s one thing to refuse long term commitments for some players, I get that. We needed Beltre bad, but not for 6 or 7 years. CC was a great fit, but bleh…But I’m concerned about what happened with Lackey. If the same thng happens with Weaver then I put my faith in the wrong guy. Til then, he says it’s his money, don’t play fantasy GM with my money, it won’t interfere with me signing people no matter what anyone tells you, and I can take short term hits. I’m going to take the man at his word…we’re not an austerity program. What else can I do?
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Feb 15, 2011 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
Pass the dutchie on the left hand side!
This is the space where you write a clever quote or something like that.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Feb 15, 2011 10:28 PM PST reply actions
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