Saxon: Trumbo and the redundancy of Wood
Mark Saxon thinks Brandon Wood's days in an Angels uniform are numbered. As much as it pains me (it's Mark 'Cut-and-Paste' Saxon after all - and worse - Brandon 'Number One Prospect' Wood), I agree with him.
Death pool, anyone?
about 1 year ago
LAASurfin
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I give Saxon until November.
by Rev Halofan on Mar 12, 2011 1:22 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Too funny!
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
I feel your pain.......
However, being the backup at first with some possibility of playing corner outfield is a different animal from playing third, shortstop, and first base. Just one slightly tweaked hammy by Izturis changes the whole picture.
BWood, (dammit). If only he could have scratched out two or three more hits than what he has so far, things might not look so bleak. The ominous part of the opinion by Saxon is the fact that he has access to some of the same info as others such as Jose Mota, whose comments and tone on the subject don’t promote optimism.
The way things are going, it doesn’t look good for Wood who just turned 26 ten days ago. Trumbo is having a wonderfully monstrous spring training; I suspect even Scioscia is wondering if Trumbo can keep it up (“He just keeps doin’it, he just keeps doin’ it”). A couple of months ago, many of us were wondering who we could get in a trade for Trumbo. Now, after 36 ABs we’re wondering how both he and KMo can both fit into the same lineup.
"two or three more hits"....
Actually, two or three more HRs would have done it.
It's a pity Trumbo can't play 3b
I’m under the impression he’s a bad OF and only a marginal 1b. That really limits his ability to help the team since he’s competing for AB with Abreu and Morales.
So yeah he’s tearing it up and deserves a slot. But he’s really just a bench player on this roster. Not much better than Wood.
I asked before, but with no replies:
“Can Hank Conger play 3B?”
With his history of injuries, I don’t think he would get up from a hit like Wilson took from Teixeira last season.
Unless there's some team out there will trade their garbage for ours
Wood will make it to the final cut of spring training
Trumbo in, Wood out
Trumbo’s value to the bench is much more than Wood’s at this point, especially with Callaspo there.
In addition, Trumbo is the safety behind Morales. We are all hopeful K-Mo returns to form and starts opening day, but there is a sense of skepticism regarding that. Plus Wood just hasn’t shown anything this spring to suggest he is ready to bounce back and reach his potential.
Well, here's something I just found to muddy the water:
In baseball news, Brandon Wood went 0-for-4 in a split-squad game Thursday at Seattle’s complex, but manager Mike Scioscia is encouraged that the one-time elite prospect is on his way to turning a corner.
"Woody’s feeling better. Right now, he’s getting into the batter’s box with confidence," Scioscia said. "It’s absolutely not a mechanical thing with him. It’s just about finding some timing and some confidence with him."
….From yesterday’s OCRegister Blog.
And Trumbo could save this team 9 Mil!
I’ve been pushing for this all along, but it’s truly a possibility now. If we use Trumbo as Abreu’s RH counterpart we could cut Abreu’s AB by 200 or so. That would put him very close to the threshold that he must stay below before the 9M dollar option is exercised.
by lightupthehalo29 on Mar 12, 2011 10:40 AM PST reply actions
Or, if we really don't want to keep Abreu next year, we can just trade him
Instead of making the team gratuitously worse.
Ding ding ding
I really don’t get this call to not play Abreu. Too many negatives, only one positive, if it is that.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Mar 12, 2011 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
This assumes a fantasy world
i.e., a world without injuries. Especially to Maicer Izturis.
Wood is the 2nd backup infielder at this point. Let’s look at some plate-appearance totals in recent years from guys who were at or below Wood’s space in the depth chart.
2010: 173 Kevin Frandsen
2008: 187 Sean Rodriguez, 157 Brandon Wood
2007: 211 Erick Aybar
2006: 283 Howie Kendrick
2005: 210 Maicer Izturis
Keep in mind, too, that Robb Quinlan was getting 175 PAs a year during most of that time, largely playing 1B and 3B (positions Wood plays better).
Until Morales is fully healthy, Trumbo is the 1Bman. If Kendrys comes back full strength, and no one else is hurt, Trumbo keeps his swing fresh in Salt Lake until the inevitable injury to either Morales, Abreu, Wells, or Hunter. In the meantime, Wood is your backup 1Bman, insurance policy at 3 positions, and pinch-runner/defender.
by mattwelch on Mar 12, 2011 10:43 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
This analysis seems to leave out Alberto Callaspo.
Why would the team continue to give bats to Wood, when Callaspo can out hit him, and is his defensive equal?
I don’t see the value in reserving a bench slot for a bat as negative as Wood’s. It just takes away ABs from a truly promising — if unlucky — farm guy like Chris Pettit.
We have two 3B bats in Maicer and Callaspo, and Andrew Romine — who has speed and can take a walk — can play there in a pinch.
by Turks Teeth on Mar 13, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
No it doesn't
Callaspo is the backup/platoon partner, Wood is the 2nd backup infielder, and in 5 of the past 6 years we’ve had at least 173+ PAs lying around for the 2nd backup infielder (while also giving about that many to Robb Quinlan for 1B/3B work).
If Romine is as good as Wood, with as much potential, and we won’t be stunting important development from him by having him ride pine, then by all means promote him, and cut Wood loose. I just don’t believe that’s true.
And Bobby Wilson can, and has, played 1B as well.
With Trumbo and Wilson in reserve, and up to three options at 3B, there’s little reason to retain Wood for any reason that Kübler-Ross can’t explain.
by Turks Teeth on Mar 13, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
The reason is this -- do we have someone better to soak up those 175 PAs?
I don’t think we do, unless it’s Amarista, in which case his development will be stunted.
Wood has been historically bad with the bat...
Surely we’ve got someone in the farm system who can at least play at replacement level.
I don’t want to send Wood out there every 7 or 8 games knowing that he’s costing us a win by continuing to play. There’s GOT to be someone else who can put up replacement numbers.
Heck, put Howie or Trumbo at third for a few games. The impact of below par defense at third for a few games is less of a detriment than a black hole in the lineup. Case in point: Wood put up a UZR of 6.6 last year and still managed to cost us 1.8 wins with his stick.
by Nathan Aderhold on Mar 13, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Bring back Kevin Frandsen ...
HAHAHAH!
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Mar 14, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Another way of looking at it
Assume Morales & all the old guys are healthy for a moment. With Wood on the bench you have the following depth around the infield:
3B: 3
SS: 3
2B: 3
1B: 2
Now with Trumbo:
3B: 2
SS: 2
2B: 3
1B: 2
Sosh likes his defensive flexibility. And the Angels aren’t talking like a team ready to give up on 7+ years of player development for free. Not when Trumbo has options.
A career 22 OPS+ is not depth at any position
Other than pitcher.
by Suboptimal on Mar 12, 2011 11:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Mike Devereaux had a career 20 OPS+ through age 25
And he was a pretty decent regular at 26. Though A) he’d had only 103 plate appearances (to Brandon’s 479), and B) he’s the only guy I could find as a counter-example, though once you get into the OPS+ 30s, there are a handful of guys (like Willie Harris) who managed useful careers.
Any useful players with a K/BB ratio of 11-to-1?
My guess is no. Neither Harris nor Devereaux were anywhere near that to start their careers. The Angels might as well use Dan Haren as a utility infielder at this point.
Just look for a dude that can already hit
and let this guy fix his fielding:
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Sadly, I can't seem to make B-Ref's play index give me a K/BB
I would guess that there would be one or two outliers, max.
Harris had 324 PAs by Wood’s age, so the playing-time comparison is not ridiculous.
he will stay around for another 2 years
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
It will rock like the Catalina Wine Mixer!!!!!!!!!
The question is not if he sucks, it's whether we have any better ideas for a backup IFer
Unless you want to blunt Amarista’s development by riding pine, I don’t see a way around having Brandon as your 25th man.
That idea makes me sad.
One of the great excuse ‘out-clauses’ if you will of Wood proponents, is that he never got enough consistent AB’s, which while I don’t think it is, may be true. So if as you indicate he will be the 25th guy (and of course I fully respect your writing and thoughts), how can we ever hope he can achieve any success?
by Wally's World on Mar 13, 2011 3:59 AM PST up reply actions
That hope is gone
Now its all about squeezing him for any sort of value he can possibly bring before they cut him for good.
Well, there's not much hope
And because of his track record, he’ll have to earn his way into anything like regular playing time. That said, any team with Maicer Izturis as the primary option at 3B (and primary backup at SS) will have plenty of ABs for the third-string 3B/SS.
By this point, Wood is the vet. Sosh LOVES vets, offense be damned. See "Finley, Steven Allen".
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
I understand your point,
but Finley was played, I think, because of the contract/money they gave him: Two years, $13MM….Traded for Edgardo Alphonso after one year in an effort to swap “bad contracts”.
Interesting story I recall from TV was that Joe Maddon was the one who suggested Finley after the 2004 season…thought he still had a lot to give.
I personally think that although it’s true that he injured his shoulder in spring training of ’05, he lost whatever “umph” he had because MLB was beginning to make a lot of noise about juicing, so he, and a lot of others, started backing off the stuff. Therefore, his age shone through, radiantly.
Options at first and third not named Wood:
1B: Morales, Trumbo, Wilson, Mellilo, Sandoval
3B: Izturis, Callaspo, Melilllo, Sandoval, Romine
(Sandoval pulled a muscle in ST but should be back in late April.)
Most of those guys at third are utility guys, but there’s nothing in the MLB record to suggest they’re worse than Wood. We’re five deep at both positions without Wood. No reason to keep this guy on the team.
Two reasons, as I see them:
1) Save face for having totally mis-appraised the future talent of BWood.
2) They think that they did not mis-appraise his talent, and believe that his power will eventually manifest itself this season.
As I typed this, BWood just K’d in the bottom of the 2nd (against Seattle) with Kendrick at 2B and Conger at 1st base with one out………………………………
It's all about the options..
and the fact that Wood is out of them. Do we want to give up on this guy after one season?
If Wood had options it’s a no brainer you send him back to AAA. But he doesn’t and Milillo, Sandoval and Romine all do.
Giving up on Wood after only one season of poor play seems pre-mature.
One season?
The guy has had multiple chances to put it together going back to 2007. At no point has he even remotely resembled a major-league baseball player. Wood’s performance last season was to “poor play” as the Hindenburg was to a Roman candle.
by Suboptimal on Mar 13, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Total games over 4 seasons is 167...
that’s essentially a bit over a full season of MLB. His AB in 2007 and 2009 were limited in particular to less than 20 games.
Most guys don’t show up in September and make an impact. Much less Brandon Wood.
If he’s batting .200 in July then you get rid of him. It takes zero effort to release the guy or put him through waivers. I just don’t see him hurting this team for another 3 month trial that deep in the depth chart. His downside is minimal because other players he’s taking up a slot for aren’t going to make a huge impact in May. Trumbo might be vital late season off the bench but that’s not relevant now. It’s also not relevant if someone gets hurt we just bring him up. It’s not like Trumbo has anywhere to really play in a major impact way with Morales and Abreu healthy.
-1.8 WAR in 243 PA
He can do a lot of damage relative to the likely benefit. The guy had a miracle year in 2005, but he’s just not any good. It’s time to let go.
He's not gonna get that many PA
as a third string infielder, especially if he is stinking it up. There is no way he turns in a WAR that bad because if he’s on pace for it again he’ll get dropped from the roster before he reaches that milestone.
He has less than 500 career PA. If he shows no promise or improvement as a third stringer in the first half of the season then dump him and call up anyone else who can help. If he does show some flashes of what he was projected then it’s worth it.
How about:
Pretty much any AAAA replacement player kicking around professional baseball (that even includes Robb Quinlan). The number of positions that Wood can field is irrelevant because he can’t hit well enough to play any of them, unless maybe he learns how to pitch. Right now, he is a capable option at zero positions.
by Suboptimal on Mar 13, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
I've had a real hard time keeping up this spring...
I’ve been out of pocket for a while folks and would love to hear the rumors or reporting of the Angels status for the 25 man roster. Not too sure of what Scioscia or others have been saying or thinking about the possibilities of Brandon Wood, Hank Conger, and Mark Trumbo making the 25 man. Trumbo seems to have the numbers but I was hoping Wood and Conger would be at least making solid contact. From what I know, it kida looks like this (Please correct me if I’m wrong):
C. Mathis
1. Morales (If he can get in 10 games or so)
2. Kendrick
SS. Aybar
3. Izturis
LF. Wells
CF. Bourjos
RF. Hunter
DH. Abreu
Bench 1. Wilson
Bench 2. Callaspo
Bench 3. Willits
Bench 4. Trumbo
SP1. Weaver
SP2. Haren
SP3. Santana
SP4. Piniero
SP5. Kazmir
BP1. Takahashi
BP2. Downs
BP3. Jepsen
BP4. Walden
BP5. Kohn
Closer. Rodney
Missing one spot… is it for a reliever or a position player??? I’m guessing the Angels carry 12 pitchers to start the season to make sure no one gets stretched out too quickly. I’m guessing it’s going to be Bulger. Or they may hold Morales till he’s 100% and use Trumbo at 1st and give Morales position to B Wood as one last hope. Maybe the pitchers have enough time to stretch out by the time Morales is back so they won’t have to designate Wood for assignment obviously giving other clubs the opportunity to grab him. Maybe it’s best we let him go but I’ll always wonder what could have been with his potential. Maybe just a damn good AAAA hitter. Thoughts?
Rich Thompson
Is out of options.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
I think both Bulger and Thompson make it
And Kohn goes back down. I also think Wood stays in Trumbo’s place, although he obviously does not deserve it.
Sosh was already on record saying they'd probably do 11 pitchers to start off...
I believe they have some off-days to make this possible. I don’t think they are going to give up on Wood yet so I think he gets the slot since he’s out of options. Trumbo makes it if any position players starts the season on the DL. Otherwise he’s in AAA to start. I’m pretty sure Conger makes the team because Sosh likes 3 catchers.
NashD, somewhere I thought I read that Scios said he would be carrying 12 pitchers...
and that Conger wouldn’t be kept as a “third” catcher. There are a lot of ways to interpret that statement.
If the season started today, Trumbo, Wood, and Pettit would probably be in the starting lineup. “Tightness” would keep Willits, Bourjos, and Izturis out of the game; Callaspo can’t throw, and Morales is nowhere near ready. Hunter would probably play through a bone bruise. With that many projected starters ailing, someone would be on the DL, or they wouldn’t have a bench.
The good news is that Rodney would probably not be available to pitch due to flu symptoms.
He changed his mind I guess..
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/03/angels-exploring-all-their-roster-options.html
With three off-days in the first 15 days of the season, Scioscia now says the team could probably get through the first three weeks with just 11 pitchers. That would allow the team to keep both Wood and rookie Mark Trumbo as an insurance policy if Kendrys Morales and his bad ankle are less than 100% coming out of spring training.
There's a lot about that article that doesn't make sense to me.
Thompson, however, is on the bullpen bubble and any reduction in the size of the pitching staff could cost him a job. Putting someone on the disabled list for opening day would create another option, though.
“If somebody’s banged up at the end and on the DL we might have the option of being at 11 [pitchers] at the start of the season,” he said.
First and foremost, why is Thompson even being considered as a possibility of not making this team? Are the Angels so filthy rich in relief pitching talent this offseason that they can afford to just give him away to another team, that would LOVE to have him, for nothing?
“If somebody’s banged up, etc…..”. That sentence obviously refers to the set of pitchers being banged up, not position players plus reserves. Well, yeah…if one of the starting five or one of Rodney, Jepsen, Walden, Downs, Takahashi, Bulger, and Thompson is “banged up”, that adds up to eleven, not twelve. It’s easy to understand how they could juggle their set of twelve (or 11) pitchers if they have 3 days off over the first 15 days of the season, but what’s that got to do with both Wood and Trumbo making the team? It seems to me that would have more to do with Morales and/or Willits, both of whom are “banged up” right now. Certainly any one of the “regulars” could be ailing, requiring a stint on the DL by then.
With three off-days in the first 15 days of the season, Scioscia now says the team could probably get through the first three weeks with just 11 pitchers. That would allow the team to keep both Wood and rookie Mark Trumbo as an insurance policy if Kendrys Morales and his bad ankle are less than 100% coming out of spring training.
The fact that there are 3 days off during the first 15 days of the season doesn’t change anything regarding the options situations of Bulger and Thompson. Heck, they could probably send Jepsen and/or Walden down for a couple of weeks if the need arises.
Since the team (or the news publications) made such a big deal about scheduling yesterday’s “B” game with Kazmir pitching “with regularity”, I’m wondering if they’ve not concluded that he might be the one “banged up” beginning in about one more week: The fifth day after the opening (with Weaver pitching) is an off day. Do ALL of the starting five get an extra day off between appearances, or do the Angels go through the first 12-15 days of the season with only 4 starters?
I’ve already mentioned Thompson, and Bulger. Everyone reading this knows that Kohn has earned every right to make the team also. However, we also recognize that his youth and remaining options probably make him the odd man out, temporarily; I expect we’re going to see a lot of Michael Kohn before the 2011 season is over.
Not sure Kohn has really earned anything
His ERA was pretty after about 20 innings last season, but he walked nearly as many hitters as he struck out. His control in the minors wasn’t much better. Thompson’s overall numbers were much better and are truly deserving of making the team.
This should be a no-brainer. Considering the “no brainer” sitting in our GM chair, Thompson probably gets waived.
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