Overlooked Reason Why Eddie Bane Was Fired
by IE Angel on Mar 25, 2011 6:04 PM PDT
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PrintLots of drama lately on this site about the firing of Eddie Bane that Keith Law's article sparked up. I have been seeing a lot of defense of Bane in the comments and posts and I'm not sure why.
I've seen people say that he was "well--liked" throughout baseball, which is a pitiful argument. Who in their right mind likes the guy at work who does a bad job but is "well-liked" by the boss? I personally HATE those guys because they do a crappy job and get away with it.
That is what Bane did. You can defend his performance with the outliers of signing Kendry(s), drafting Weaver, Trout becoming the #1 prospect in baseball. 3 successes in the drafts/international signings from 2004-2010 are not enough for anyone to continue doing their job. I'm going to take a look back at the Angels' draft during Bane's era are show exactly why Bane should have been let go, office politics be damned.
2004:
1st Round: Jered Weaver. 12th pick.
This was a no-brainer. Weaver had all the tools to be the #1 overall pick but was represented by Scott Boras, so he slid down to us at 12. Signed him at the deadline after a great deal of bickering between our organization and Boras, and now he is our ace. It was obviously a good selection; but picking the #1 player at #12 is not a tough thing to do if you are financially able to do so. It isn't as though Bane called the 11 teams picking before us and scared them away from Weaver. But this pick is a great start to a career for Bane. However, this great start was short lived.
The next 47 players picked have combined to play 30 major league games.
Freddy Sandoval, 8th round, 233rd pick. Hanley Statia, 9th round, 263rd pick. Mark Trumbo, 18th round, 533rd pick. Bobby Cassevah, 34 round, 1013th pick.
Freddy is a borderline bench player and a perennial AAAA infielder. Nothing to write home about. Statia will probably never get out of AAA with the middle infielders in our organization. I hope that Trumbo sticks, but given our track record with power hitting corner infielders that is far from a sure thing. Cassevah is a borderline mop up man, who will never have a place in our bullpen.
That is an uninspiring first draft. But the big one here is Nick Adenhart. Just writing about him brings tears to my eyes because of how he was taken from us and from this world. We drafted Nick in the 15th round, 413th overall selection. If not for that tragic night, Bane would probably still have his job because he would have been responsible for 2/5 of our rotation. Really makes you wonder about how different things would be if Nick hadn't passed away.
2005
1st Round: Trevor Bell, 37th overall.
3rd Round: Sean O'Sullivan, 103rd overall.
6th Round: Jeremy Moore, 193rd overall.
9th Round: Robert Mosebach, 283 overall.
10th Round: Peter Bourjos, 313 overall.
Another bland draft. Bell could be a back end of a rotation guy, probably by May with Kazmir continually finding new ways to give up runs. O'Sullivan is the same, probably a long-relief guy. Moore might be a 4th outfielder, but probably not ever for us. Mosebach is a AAAA reliever, who will never stick anywhere.
This group is a little better than 2004's though, with 104 games played for the Angels between them. This draft yields another "what-if" in the 4th round with Brian Matusz being picked but not signing with us. He is now the #1 on Baltimore's staff and would have been in our rotation by now, as well. If we had gotten him signed, Bane could still have his job.
2006
So far Bane's draft have yielded our CF, as of now, our 5th best starter, a pitcher that could have been in the 2-4 of our rotation and our #1 pitcher. Not a terrible start. Let's see how he adds with this class.
1st Round: 25th overall: Hank Conger.
Could be our future at catcher if the parental cord connecting Mike Scoscia and Jeff Mathis can ever be cut. Injury prone but an exciting guy. Wish he had arrived sooner.
5th Round: 162nd overall: David Herndon.
Got Rule 5 drafted by the Phillies. Is now their mop up guy. Might have been a nice guy to hang onto but certainly not overwhelming.
6th Round: 192nd overall: Robert Fish.
Also Rule 5 drafted by the Yankees, they let him go and now he is with another team. Watched him pitch in high school because he played down the street from my house, was a beast then. Now a fringy AAAA reliever, though he topped out at AA for us.
12th Round: 372nd overall: Jordan Walden.
Made his debut for us last year, has a cannon and hits triple digits. Very realistic possibility of him being our closer within a year. Exciting kid. Had a few setbacks in the minors as a starter before being converted to a relief guy. Could be a staple of our bullpen for quite a few seasons.
19th Round: 582nd overall: Chris Pettit.
Guy that gets talked about a lot around here. I like him personally. Wish he hadn't gotten injured last year because he had a shot to make the roster. Could be a decent major league player. Hope that he bumps Willits off the roster for good and sticks as our 4th outfielder.
After this draft we have no new additions to the major league roster. But our future closer, catcher and contributing bench guy. As well as two replacement level relief pitchers. Average but, once again, nothing to get excited about.
2007
This is where it goes downhill sharply from a slope that wasn't all that high to begin with.
5th Round. 178 overall: Andrew Romine.
Maybe a future backup infielder. A fringe roster guy, hasn't impressed me at any point.
8th Round: 268th overall: Trevor Reckling.
Who knows with him. Could end up in our rotation, might not ever figure out how to throw strikes consistently. Was rushed to AAA, got crushed. Got sent back to AA, still got hit hard. Hope he can figure it out, but he is still probably the best player in this draft.
2008
2nd Round: 74th overall: Tyler Chatwood.
Local kid in my area. Untouchable in high school. Has surprised a lot of people with how well he has developed. Besides me rooting for him for being local and having played against him in high school, he has a legit shot at being in our rotation in a few years. This was a very good selection, in my opinion.
13th Round: 409 overall: Michael Kohn.
Another surprising reliever. Despite the Halowood jokes and comments, this is going to be another important part of our bullpen for years to come. A very good find this late in a draft.
2009
1st Round: 24th overall: Randal Grichuk.
Looks good so far. Hope he pans out.
1st Round: 25th overall: Mike Trout.
I haven't heard much about this guy. Can someone fill me in?
Kidding aside, #1 prospect in baseball. Can't really argue this.
1st Round: 42nd overall: Garrett Richards.
Projects well. Rising quickly. Very good pitching prospect.
2010
I still think it is much to early to pass any judgement on this draft and I don't really know much about the players in it. Cowart looks good. Everyone else is kind of toolsy.
All in all, that is 7 drafts.
Out of those drafts we have our #1 pitcher Weaver, who was the top pitcher in the draft but fell to us because of his agent.
We have our CF Bourjos, who may or may not be a long term solution in the outfield. I hope that he is because I loved watching him play and what he gives us on defense is damn near unmatchable.
We have two guys that figure to be in our bullpen for the foreseeable future in Kohn and Walden.
We have the #1 prospect in baseball in Mike Trout.
We have a couple of good pitching prospects, and a couple more I didn't list who were involved in trades.
We have our starting 1st Baseman as of now, who may or may not be able to hit in the big leagues. If not, he is a bench guy or an AAAA player.
We have a couple of 4th outfielders in Pettit and Moore.
We have a couple back-of-the-rotation starters.
Providing one starting position players and one starting pitcher in 7 years is not a good job of scouting talent.
Many people here are correct in saying that Bane is not responsible for the failures of Wood and Mathis and McPherson and the disappointments of Howie and Aybar. He is responsible for not providing the organization with any players to replace those disappointments and failures through the draft and international scouting.
Kendry, Bourjos and Weaver. 2/9 starting position players. 1/5 starters. That is not acceptable.
While there may have been other issues that resulted in the firing of Bane, the Angels were completely justified to let go of somebody who had done such a poor job.
He may be a scapegoat, but it is not without merit.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Well Researched
However, off the top of my head, it’s difficult to draw any conclusions about Bane’s success (and lack thereof) without a frame of reference – that is to say, how do the Angels’ drafts in the Bane years compare to the drafts of other teams drafting in a similar position. Because the Angels have been a fairly good team, they have tended to have a lower draft position. They’ve also lost a couple of picks in that time due to FA signings. So, how do the Angels’ drafts compare to those of, say, the Yankees, Red Sox, Twins, Cardinals, Phillies, Braves and Dodgers (i.e., teams that have finished either first or second in their respective divisions in that time)?
I did a quick look...
Below are the total WAR for each team for players drafted 2004 to 2007. A team gets credit for a drafted players who signed with another team:
Red Sox – 39.9
Angels – 22.4
Yankees – 21.9
Twins – 21.5
Dodgers – 15.9
Phillies – 4.8
Cardinals – 3.7
that's interesting. Most of that is Weaver though.
how does that adjust if you do it over the whole period of Bane being in charge?
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
Few draftees from 2008-2010 have not hit the Majors yet.
Bane pretty much single handedly netted us Haren with Skaggs and Corbin, btw. That’s worth conceding.
good point
The WAR thing might be good to run in five years, wright now it seems top-heavy with Weaver.
I wasn't trying to go against what you wrote (which was very good by the way)
jjackflash’s question about comparing the Angels to other teams made me curious.
As with most things that happen in the Angels’ front office, we’ll never know what really went on or why it happened.
I didn't see it that way, just was honestly curious.
Thanks for the compliment. I’m trying to get more consistently involved writing on here instead of just commenting. Kind of fills the void that got left when I stopped taking writing classes in college.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
If we’re using that to evaluate Bane’s skill at picking, don’t we need to bump it up some for what Nick Adenhart would have done.
It makes Bane look pretty good.
huh
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Mar 25, 2011 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Why are you omitting the good players that we traded away or who met untimely ends?
Like Skaggs, Corbin and Torres — all of whom are likely to make it to the MLB? Or Adenhart, RIP?
Very, very few drafted players make it to the Bigs in any role, even fewer make it to a bench or everyday role, and it’s exceedingly rare that any become a start.
I think WiHaloFan has the right tack here in comparing our success to other teams, and given that, Bane looks pretty good.
by Turks Teeth on Mar 25, 2011 7:11 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I noted those pitchers in the summary at the end.
I didn’t do an analysis of them because they aren’t on our team or on a major league roster.
And there is an entire paragraph dedicated to NA. So maybe you should read through something before commenting negatively.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
he gave you a fair critique
Dude, you got promoted to the front page, you did a great a job, please have a thicker skin.
That's rich, given this entire post is "commenting negatively."
If you’re going to dish out negative opinion, you can expect a little in response. That’s just the way it works here — and I expect the mud when I sling it too.
The fact that you omitted Skaggs, Corbin and Torres — each of whom were drafted by Bane and netted 2/5 of our current rotation — isn’t my failure to read, it’s you’re failure to account for the value Bane brought.
I read the Adenhart paragraph — but it’s a caveat. You basically remove the value that Bane brought by discounting Adenhart’s death. Man, that fact that Nick died has no bearing on Bane’s selection.
I basically feel that if NA is alive, then we aren't having this discussion.
Bane still has his job and we probably wouldn’t have traded most of those pitchers.
But the end result is that Nick tragically never amounted to a major part of the big league team. That isn’t Bane’s fault but it still happened.
Just like it isn’t Bane’s fault that we couldn’t sign Matusz or Chris Davis or the college football players he drafted.
Those things not being his fault, doesn’t eliminate the fact that those draft picks never provided us with value.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
But how can Bane possibly be held responsible for Nick's death?
I mean, IE, you’re making an argument here, at length, that Bane did a “poor job” — but to make that argument, you subtract many of the positive things that Bane did on technicalities.
Signing Adenhart, Torres, Skaggs and Corbin all were positives. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t have been traded for Haren and Kazmir (though the latter was Reagins’ idiocy, not Bane’s).
Adenhart was a top 100 prospect for BA, and and a top 50 MLB prospect. Those are hard lists to make — roughly 2% of draftees make those lists, and still, 60-70% of prospects on those lists still never become MLB players.
It's not that he is held responsible.
It’s that he lost the ML experience that Nick would have provided.
His job security is affected directly by the success of the players he scouts and we draft. If Nick Adenhart had blown out his arm instead of losing his life, Bane would still lost the value Nick provided.
Like Rev says, it is an asterisk to the story. I don’t think we are having this argument if NA was successful in the major leagues. I would be less critical of Bane’s performance if NA had major league success.
The fact that he was a top prospect makes this even tougher for Bane because it is (and I say this as delicately as humanly possible) a failed prospect. Not because of lack of success, but because of lack of production.
This isn’t so much about Nick as it is about the hundreds of other players he drafted that never amounted to anything.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
"This isn’t so much about Nick as it is about the hundreds of other players he drafted that never amounted to anything."
This has to be stated again:
Baseball America determined from a study years ago that only one of ten minor leaguers ever makes it to the big leagues for at least one game. Of those, only one of four will play five years in the majors.
Combine those two numbers, and it means that only one in forty minor leaguers will become a big-league regular. In a typical year, an organization might have 200 minor leaguers under contract. Applying the 1 in 40 rule, it means that on the average only five of them will emerge as big-league regulars. Applying the 1 in 10 rule, it means that at best 20 of them will even make it to the majors for one game.
I hate citing that to you, because I used to cite it for Halowood’s benefit, and it’s not kind to serve you or anyone elase Halowood’s mudpie.
But this is the truth — only 1 in 40 minor leaguers see regular play in the Majors — and those regulars include some pretty mediocre players.
So if a farm system is roughly composed of four or five drafts, and some non-draftees, you should expect, on average, one player per draft to become a regular in some form or another, and perhaps 2-3 others to receive some sort of call-up, if even for a handful of games.
I think Bane met those targets, and exceeded them in the final count.
by Turks Teeth on Mar 25, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
ONE THING ABOUT BANE'S BIG CATCHES
If there were any sort of international draft, we don’t get kendry.
If there were any sort of slot system in drafting, we don’t get weaver.
by Rev Halofan on Mar 25, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
of course
if we had not signed free agents, Bane would have had many more chances to work his magic so it evens out.
by Rev Halofan on Mar 25, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
It's tragic and I hate it
but you can’t exactly ADD the value of Adenhart to Bane’s resume, either…because it’s an unknown. Sadly, we’ll never see him develop into the ace we thought he would which would give Bane additional value. But on the flip side, we’ll also never know if he would have just flamed out in a year or two, either…and it was a real possibility that he would.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 25, 2011 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't agree with this though.
Simply because so few pitching prospects see even a single start in the Bigs. As I state above, only 2% of prospects ever see a spot on the national top prospect lists, and some teams don’t have a single inclusion in certain years.
The mere fact that Adenhart was a top prospect and started a game in the Majors redounds to Bane’s credit.
How much credit can you give, at least in terms of player evaluation for Adenhart, though?
Adenhart was a 1st round talent who slid to the 14th round because of a fairly significant arm injury and the Angels were willing to risk paying the kid to have TJ surgery + recovery time. You can give a little credit that Bane was willing to take the gamble, but it wasn’t really anything like superior scouting or player evaluation to know Adenhart was going to be a big time prospect coming out of HS.
Sure it was -- taking a gamble on Tommy John player is all about excellent scouting.
Plus, Adenhart had a guaranteed college scholarship Bane talked him out of.
But at that point, what kind of value are you even talking about?
It’s still negligible.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 25, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
A house is a completed project that provided value while it was standing to those in it
Adenhart in that analogy would be a house that had its foundation laid and no inhabitants.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 25, 2011 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
right
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Mar 25, 2011 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
There's some Bane-created value missing in the post.
But the basic idea here of systematically evaluating Bane’s body of work – and perhaps comparing it to his peers’ – is really, really intriguing.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Peer
As someone that has known BB for years and played many rounds of golf,shuffled many of hands of cards not to mentioned bet the dogs with I can tell you that BB got his job done and busted his ass out in the field evaluating talent.
There is mention of how a lot of credit should not be tossed at the Weaver draft but there was 11 teams that passed because they were not sure he was worth the kind of money Boras was demanding. It was BB that got management to see the light of day and his people in the scouting department that did their homework on the signability.
As for the argument about NA I can’t believe that their is some that don’t consider that a great draft! Here is a kid with a possible career ending injury that would eventually make the opening day roster. Evaluating that take a lot of time. The area scouts have to determine the kids make up (what type of personality he has). Then BB had to sell The Angels over college. Once again there was a helluva a lot teams/picks before his selections and BB had the nuts to pull the trigger on him.
I could go on and on about the firing of BB but what it really comes down to is BB is a baseball guy first and foremost and the GM IS NOT. Take a look at the post for Blame of the Game today and most people are starting to realize that the current GM for the Angels is LOST!! That there is the reason BB is no longer the Scouting Director. It isn’t because he doesn’t know talent!
by Angel Aviator on Apr 3, 2011 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Peer"s
As someone that has known BB for years and played many rounds of golf,shuffled many of hands of cards not to mentioned bet the dogs with I can tell you that BB got his job done and busted his ass out in the field evaluating talent.
There is mention of how a lot of credit should not be tossed at the Weaver draft but there was 11 teams that passed because they were not sure he was worth the kind of money Boras was demanding. It was BB that got management to see the light of day and his people in the scouting department that did their homework on the signability.
As for the argument about NA I can’t believe that their is some that don’t consider that a great draft! Here is a kid with a possible career ending injury that would eventually make the opening day roster. Evaluating that take a lot of time. The area scouts have to determine the kids make up (what type of personality he has). Then BB had to sell The Angels over college. Once again there was a helluva a lot teams/picks before his selections and BB had the nuts to pull the trigger on him.
I could go on and on about the firing of BB but what it really comes down to is BB is a baseball guy first and foremost and the GM IS NOT. Take a look at the post for Blame of the Game today and most people are starting to realize that the current GM for the Angels is LOST!! That there is the reason BB is no longer the Scouting Director. It isn’t because he doesn’t know talent!
by Angel Aviator on Apr 3, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
MY MAIN Issue with anaylsis like this
Do we know with any certainty whether or not Bane wanted Trout or if the organization insisted he draft Trout?
Absolutely NOBODY who knows will answer that question, and that dynamic of argument happens in every round throughout the draft. If Reagins has a good memory and can pinpoint players Bane overlooked who went on to success, he builds his case against Bane over time.
We will never know, but he may be getting credit for players he was forced to take.
you can say the same thing just flipped
what if there were players Bane wanted to take but he couldn’t for various reasons
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart #34
neither have paid off yet.
sadly one will not ever.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Mar 25, 2011 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
drafting two players
in the 12th and 14th round and having them both be top prospects is paying off IMO
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart #34
Aye, there's the rub.
No way to know how many times Bane said “I want ‘X’” and Tony/Stoneman/Sosh pulled rank and drafted ‘Y’ instead. Maybe the Bane picks were the washouts and the over-rules were the winners.
Suppose, for example, it was the case in 2009 that Bane really, really wanted Grichuk and Tony really, really wanted Trout?
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Another thing that I would have liked to include is the fact that we lost a ton of draft picks during Bane's tenure.
I feel like he might have been able to produce a few more MLB roster guys if not or losing a ton of early round picks.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
good point
Bane was handcuffed by draft picks we gave up for Orlando Cabrera, Steve Finley and many many others.
Of course, how many toolsy high school busts and NFL quarterbacks would he have wasted those picks on?
Or picks taken and not signed
Matt Harvey and Zach Cone also come to mind…Cone will go in the top few rounds in this year’s draft and Harvey went 7th in last years draft. Technically the team also took Buster Posey is I recall correctly.
"Not that there's anything wrong with that."
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
seinfeld, nice.
“My name is Buck Naked and I’m a porn-star.”
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
Here’s the last time the Angels have used a pick on a college position player in each of the top ten rounds
Rnd Year Player Pos 1 1997 Troy Glaus 3B 2 2001 Dallas McPherson 3B 3 2000 Tommy Murphy SS 4 1998 Brian Oliver SS 5 2009 Casey Haerther 1B 6 2004 Joshua LeBlanc 2B 7 2009 Josh Karcich SS 8 2009 Carlos Ramirez C 9 2010 Andrew Heid CF 10 2009 Jacob Locker CF
That pretty much sums up my issues. Bane never even tried to get a projectable hitter further along in the development process.
That's not too convincing to me.
The stance is fine, but the evidence is weak.
He netted the best prospect in baseball with a highschooler in 2010, so why should be have opted for a collegiate position player that year? Should he have opted for a collegiate position player in 2004 over Weaver?
Basically all that list says is that Bane has indeed chosen collegiate position players recently in rounds 5-10, and in rounds 1-4 he netted us Weaver, Trout, Conger, Skaggs, Richards, Chatwood and Corbin. Can you really criticize those picks necessarily?
(And in multiple years we didn’t have a first or second round pick.)
Great analysis. I don't necessarily agree with everything, but I appreciate the thought behind it.
My thoughts are that Bane’s dismissal was definitely personality driven. While Bane may have been very interactive with the fans, we don’t know the real facts behind his departure, just innuendo, hypotheticals, and conjecture. At least until someone comes forward and spills the beans. Reagins and Bane had worked together for a while, and perhaps their relationship was held together and controlled by Stoneman. Once he left and Reagins was put in charge, maybe then it was all downhill.
While I do agree to a point that some of the drafts were less than impressive, Bane turned out quite a few good players than other organizations are envious.
The Devil went down to Georgia, and all I got was this gold fiddle. Go Angels!
I agree with a lot of this.
I personally feel like there was another reason behind his departure, but it isn’t as though the guy had an outstanding track record to argue over being fired.
I feel like one of our front office’s biggest flaws is the lack of perceivably clear reasoning behind their actions. A great deal of the issues we talk about on this blog would go away, if the front office would just explain their reasons for doing the things they do and not use coach talk.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
looking around
there are only a select few organizations operating at an accessible level of transparency.
In my opinion, WHY they do things is none of our business.
We’re interested, and curious, (and nosey) but it’s not our business.
First, let me say that I used to be a Bane critic.
Mostly for the reasons Suboptimal stated above — insufficient balance in the drafts — not enough collegiate players that can contribute at the MLB level within two years of signing.
But then, the more I read prospect valuations, I see how rare it is that prospects turn into regulars, let alone elite players.
It really comes down to this: any scouting director in the country could hang his hat on netting Weaver, Morales and Trout in a six year span.
But in that span, he also netted Adenhart, Bourjos, Walden, Kohn, Conger, Bell, etc.
That’s three elite players, and a lot of prospects that have played games at the MLB level. Plus his prospects also delivered us Haren. Bourjos looks to be the best defensive CF in the game, and may yet hit, and Walden is likely our closer of the future.
Save for the death of Adenhart, 3/5 of our rotation would have been sourced to Bane — and had we not forfeited so many first rounders with FA acquisitions, he could have done more.
I’ve done a 180 on Bane over the last two years. I think it was mistake to release him.
by Turks Teeth on Mar 25, 2011 8:09 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just out of curiosity I looked at our main competition in the AL over the past 7 drafts.
Rangers: Justin Smoak, Julio Borbon, Tommy Hunter, Mitch Moreland, Derek Holland, Chris Davis, Taylor Teagarden. Edge: Us.
A’s: Huston Street, Kurt Suzuki, Dallas Braden, Ryan Webb (basically equivalent to Kohn, Walden), Cliff Pennington, Travis Buck, Vin Mazzaro, Trevor Cahill, Mike Leake (didn’t sign). Edge: Oakland
Mariners: Dustin Ackley, Shawn Kelley (same as Webb), Brandon Morrow, Doug Fister, Jeff Clement (BUST), Michael Saunders. Edge: Us. And the Mariners really do suck at everything.
Yankees: Phil Hughes, Brett Gardner, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, David Robertson (who is what Kohn and Walden can and should be). Edge: Them right now.
Red Sox: Dustin Pedroia, Cla Meredith, Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz, Jed Lowrie, Daniel Bard, Justin Masterson, Ryan Kalish, Matt LaPorta, Edge: Them in a landslide.
Rays: David Price, Evan Longoria, Desmond Jennings, Jeremy Hellickson, Jeff Neimann, Reid Brignac, Wade Davis, Jake McGee, Andy Sonnastine. Edge: Rays (but to be fair they drafted in the Top 10 almost exclusively.)
Twins: Kevin Slowey, Brian Duensing, Matt Garza (got them Delmon Young and Brendon Harris), Danny Valencia. Edge: Us in my opinion, but it is debatable.
White Sox: Chris Sale, Gordon Beckham, Daniel Hudson, Clayton Richard, Chris Getz, Gio Gonzalez Edge: Us in terms of current value on the team, but them in terms of return for the picks.
Tigers: Justin Verlander, Cameron Maybin, Matthew Joyce, Will Rhymes, Alex Avila, Brennan Boesch, Andrew Miller (bust but got them Miguel Cabrera), Rick Porcello, Ryan Perry. Edge: Tigers in a big way.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
I have no idea if these teams changed scouting directors over the course of this time period.
But it’s just a comparison of what other teams have done recently in contrast to us.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
This also shows that you can do a whole hell of a lot with the draft. Wow.
I think I hate the red Sox more.
A team like the Angels should be much better than them at drafting. Just because…
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Mar 25, 2011 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
a little more salt in the wound
They took Pedroia with the compensation pick they got for us signing Orlando Cabrera. Ouch.
by Rev Halofan on Mar 25, 2011 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Mar 26, 2011 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
With Bourjos,then, this might make things a wash...
I hope.
dissenter, dubious and devil's advocate to blog monitors everywhere.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Mar 26, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Also just one other one I wanted to do on the side.
Dodgers: Clayton Kershaw, Blake Dewitt, Corey Wade.
That is disappointing for them.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
Thanks for the analysis
These drafts arent terrible, and they have got us some pretty useful guys, but I think a change is good. Lets hope our new guy can do a great job building the next great Halo team!
Lance Berkman= Awesome, CJ Wilson= Jack@$$
Minor League Ball's 2010 Rookie of the Year Poster
If you didn't know by now, my screen name is sarcastic
I thought our bloated payroll was supposed to cover this shortcoming?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Nice post, I.E.
I’m not sure I even agree with your main conclusions – but so what, right? This was a fresh take, nicely presented.
Thanks.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
Now I know I'm retarded...
Because I agree with the conclusion of the post (for other reasons), but as I read it I honestly thought it was some clever argument in the ironic voice in support of Bane only in the end to be disappointed. Oh well…
I really like the run-down because it takes a lot to try to analyze so many draft picks. I also admit its kinda tough to dismiss a franchise ace (two if you count trade value), a mega thumper like Kendrys, and what Trumbo and Trout can possibly be on top of Walden and Kohn. I also think it depends on what objective you’re given and we just don’t know that. For me, I am more persuaded by the argument that at this level, you don’t know what’s going on inside.
Meaning, my guess is that the scouting director is responsible for assessing the value of draft prospects like all of the scouts, but his main responsibility is to keep coaches and mgt up to date with the current minor league guys. This helps with assessing trade value and understanding whose coming up next. In defense of IE’s position, which I agree with, if you were anywhere around a TV last year you noticed we may have used a minor leaguer or two. I’m betting some people didn’t prove to be where the FO was told they were. Were there trades passed up? Did any assessment affect letting Vlad, Lackey, GA, Oliver go? Is it buyers remorse for sean Rodriguez or others?
We don’t know what he did or didn’t do in addition to being responsible for overseeing some dishonesty and lack of fiduciary responsibility, but he wasn’t wrongfully terminated.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
Same.
As i was reading it, im like, yeah! Yeah! YEAH!
ALL THESE PICKS ARE OMFGZ AWESOME…
then the conclusion of “the angels were justified in letting go of somebody who did such a poor job.”
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Mar 25, 2011 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
You can't do a good drafting analysis without zeroing in on draft position
If I had time (and I don’t!) I’d create a control group that looked at the players selected just before and after each slot Bane got to work with. While even that will lead to distortions created by money (particularly in the Weaver case), it’s much better than eyeballing draft classes as undifferentiated glops even if the team had few if any top-30 picks.
And even then you have the trouble of evaluating any draft within the last three years, since they only start coming to fruition around Year Four.
Sean O'Sullivan
he’s no longer on our roster anymore, but a starting pitcher for the Royals (I believe), when we traded him away for Callaspo, but seems to be doing at least somewhat successful for himself there – though you can’t really gauge; come on, it’s the Royals.
ERA over 6.00 last season
Starting this year in the pen. Funny definition of success.
I'm with Turk on this one
Bane was a solid scouting director. When the Angels had high picks they seemed to get a really good player. You can really only expect to get one starter and a few extra pieces in each draft and Bane definitely did that even though he was definitely handicapped by the Angels giving up so many top picks. The top picks are also where a far greater percentage of the starters come from in the draft.
Weaver, Morales, Bourjos, Kendrick, Aybar, Saunders, Napoli, Conger, Kohn, Walden, Jepsen, Moore, Trout, Richards, Corbin, Adenhart, Skaggs, Torres, Bell, Chatwood all without many 1st round picks??? I sure as heck hope he was let go because he was involved in some bonus skimming because his drafts certainly haven’t been poor.
Also comparing him to the Red Sox is
apples to oranges unless you also show how much money each team spent overall in their drafts. I know the Red Sox have spent considerably more.
A good chunk of those guys were not drafted or signed by Bane
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 26, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
yea I went back a few too many years
I’ll still take our drafts given our draft position as being better than average.
We also don't know his role in those selections...
he directs scouting, but he’s not the actual area scout. maybe he got in their way. maybe he didn’t make the call on those players?
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Mar 26, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Aybar, Saunders, Jepsen, Napoli and Kendrick.
To be exact. Just the guys actually in the majors.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
Was Bane also responsable for the scouting of players in Europe?
"If we go extra innings, I'm gonna make a move" - Mariners bullpen catcher on a hoochie mama in the stands.
by Christoffer James V Ferreira on Mar 26, 2011 11:47 AM PDT reply actions
Easy job:
July 2010 Scouting Report – Europe
Interesting Prospects: None
Now, back to my croissant and au lait…
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
by LAASurfin on Mar 26, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks. So I figure he was the one who signed Frederik Terkelsen back in ’08. Did anyone watch him play?
"If we go extra innings, I'm gonna make a move" - Mariners bullpen catcher on a hoochie mama in the stands.
by Christoffer James V Ferreira on Mar 26, 2011 12:03 PM PDT reply actions
Tyler Skaggs u won’t forget that name in the near future. Drafted at #40 in the sup. 1st round he was the centerpiece of the Haren deal. The kid just turned 19 and has now thrown in 2 major league games 1st against Oakland 3 ip 0 runs 2 hits 3 k’s 1 bb got the win then again vs Dodgers 3 ip 0 runs 2 k’s 0 bb 1 hit got the win. He will be a front of the rotation guy within the next 2 years. Oh by the way he’s a 6’5 lefty that at 19 sits 94 with a plus slider.
Thanks for the upate
We are aware of who Tyler Skaggs is. Haren is a front of the rotation guy today, and he is underpaid.
You have to give up something to get something.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Yup
we basically got a proven version of Tyler Skaggs’ best case scenario (not in specific makeup obviously, but in production) for…uh….Tyler Skaggs (the others honestly are nice pieces, but nothing to cry over). And we have him under contract. For less than he’s worth. Sounds good to me.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Mar 30, 2011 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
He got fired for drafting a player wayy to high, because the Mom put out! No joke!
You've been Bourjos'd!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
Now, dat right dare is funny...I don't care who you are.
You’re kiddin’, right?
Nope.. haha Taylor Lindsey
Played aganist him over the summer while he was on the Angels scout team.. Saw Eddie Bane there, then everyone started seeing them always together.. Werid right? Well they were caught and now you got Rick Wilson as your new scouting director!
You've been Bourjos'd!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
My bro Andy Lane= Cubs Bullpen catcher!
by WillGoAngels27 on Apr 2, 2011 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
this is the story I believe
i doubt it was his drafts or baseball knowledge – they weren’t too bad and are enough to keep us in contention. Good original post but to round it, you have to throw in who we bypassed and who we took in the first few rounds that fell flat on their face.
it was something like this Lindsey incident – i remember you posting it ealier on this web site and can easily see Arte flipping out what seems to be crossing the line ethically. Since I live by DV and MP, can you remind me again what school Lindsay went to and where you are playing?
thanks for pointiing this out again – its my belief this kinda behavior is the sort that gets you fired.
Its all systemic
Its all a fantastical combination of the organizational philosophy of developing strong pitching, defensive catchers, and teaching hitters to “go the other way”,“shorten your swing”, “dont ever fucking walk”, and “we love skinny Dominican slap hitting players weighing no more than 145 pounds”
Obviously some of this is a little ridiculous, but you see what I mean. The 2002 squad won the whole shebang because of amazing chemistry, literally and figuratively. They could come back whenever they wanted to, and also were all juiced out of their minds so slap hitting was out of the question.
Until this system reworks itself to embrace a more viable modern day view of how hitting works, and how to score runs (protip: its not all AVG there smart guys, learn to math) then we pretty much have to hope our farm system develops. And by develops I mean creates a new super steroid that is undetectable.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Man, this post is really holding up strong on sidebar.
I’m surprised.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
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