SB Nation Los Angeles Editor's Pick
Grading Tony Reagins: From Day One to Present
by JeffJoiner on Apr 14, 2011 12:04 PM PDT
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PrintMuch has been written about the moves (and non-moves) made by the Angels general manager recently, and he has earned his share of admirers and detractors. For the most part, it seems fan sentiment is turning against him although a large segment of the fan base is willing to give him more time before forming a conclusion. Count me in the latter group.
I work in sales and know that people buy emotionally, then rationalize that decision logically. So, instead of shaping my view when Kazmir is on the hill getting shelled, I thought a nice look at the man's entire body of work was in order. If I leave something out, please fill in the blanks.
First Year (Winter 2007 through 2008 season)
Traded Orlando Cabrera for Jon Garland. I was not a fan of this move at the time, but Garland did provide the Angels with 196.2 innings and the move made room for Erick Aybar. Not too bad, not that great, still a little down on this one.
Traded Casey Kotchman and minor leaguers for Mark Teixeira. This is the type of move a serious World Series contender is supposed to make if a ring is in sight. It did leave the Angels exposed at first base in 2009, but, no disrespect to Casey, Kotchman is not the type of first baseman championship teams are built around. Great move.
Second Year (Winter 2008 through 2009 season)
He let Garret Anderson and Jon Garland leave. Losing Anderson hurt emotionally (he was my favorite player for years), but his production was slipping. Garland was an innings eater, but had a 4.90 ERA. Solid moves.
Let Francisco Rodriguez walk. Or actually run, to $75 million paid by the Mets. He has 61 saves and an arrest so far in NY. No closer is worth that type of money. Good move.
Signed Brian Fuentes. Not your prototypical closer, but he did a pretty good job and wasn't a huge financial burden.
He got played by Boras in the Teixeira talks. The start of a continuing theme, he was used as a pawn in negotiations he was never going to win. It's not the first time Boras has pulled this, it won't be the last. Bad move.
Traded Sean Rodriguez and prospects for Scott Kazmir. At the time, I was excited about this move. When Kazmir came out firing in his first few starts for the Angels, so were most fans. At that time, it looked like another move championship teams are supposed to make to go after the prize. Obviously, this trade has turned into a stinker, but the cliche is "hindsight is 20/20," not "foresight." Had the Angels pulled a ring out of 2009, the sting would be a lot less, but this has turned into a very bad trade.
Third Year (Winter 2009 through 2010 season)
He let Chone Figgins and John Lackey get overpaid elsewhere. Both were stalwarts of the Angels success and many fans wanted them back. Seattle paid $36 million guaranteed with a $9 million dollar option for a guy who has hit .253 with an OBP of .332 for them. Lackey fleeced Boston for $87.5 million and continues to see a slide in his production. Once again painful moves that turned out for the better.
He let Vladimir Guerrero go. At the time, a move that made sense due to Vladdy's health in recent seasons. Had Vladdy played for a team other than Texas, or perhaps a bit more like his two previous seasons, the move would be looked at approvingly. Well, he went to Texas and raked, especially against us, so bad move.
Let Darren Oliver go. Of all the players we lost, this one made the least sense and, in my opinion, hurt us the most. Horrible move.
Signed Hideki Matsui to one year deal. I figured Matsui would be patient and let the steal/hit-and-run offense really work. I figured his stat line would look about like .280/20/90. It turned out to be .274/21/84. Decent move.
Signed Joel Pineiro. He pitched well until getting hurt. Hopefully, he gets back soon. So far a decent move that has the ability to turn into a really good one.
Signed Fernando Rodney. At the time, a decent looking deal. Rocky at times. Overall, not his best move, but Sosh seems to have a handle on this guy and he seems to be coming around. Neutral on this one.
Traded Joe Saunders and prospects for Dan Haren. His best deal to date. While the 2010 season was pretty much over before he made it, Haren will be an Angel for a few seasons. I love this move.
Traded prospects for Alberto Callaspo. I've always like Callaspo and am glad he's back in the fold. A solid third baseman with versatility and club control. Good move.
Fourth Year (Winter 2010 through present)
Failed to land Carl Crawford, Adrian Beltre, or Rafael Soriano. There was a lot of money thrown at those guys and whether or not they are worth it remains to be seen. Yeah, it was disappointing, but the jury is still out on those deals for me.
Signed Scott Downs and Hisanori Takahashi. Arguably the best set-up man in baseball and a versatile lefty to help fill Oliver's role. These signings were a move to turn the bullpen from a weakness to a strength. I love both these moves.
Traded Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera for Vernon Wells and cash. The move that really turned him into a villain. Due to our flyball pitchers and manager's stubborn attitude towards Napoli, I was cool with this trade. The contract notwithstanding, the Angels have greatly improved the outfield defense and, by proxy, the pitching staff. I'm going to withhold judgment on this one until the playoffs roll around.
Overall, some hits, some misses, and some good decisions to let popular players walk instead of burdening the team with bad contracts. Of course, the term "bad contract" immediately conjures to mind Vernon Wells, and some fans will choose to judge the trade before a season has been completed.
I'm sure I've missed a transaction or two, but overall I have agreed with the man at the time the deal was made much more often than not. So far, I give him a B. You?
Note: For reasons not explainable, I failed to mention his two best free agent signings: Torii Hunter and Bobby Abreu. Torii has been the face of the franchise and Abreu was arguably the steal of the 2008 offseason. Great moves.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Comments
Like Rex use to say: "What have you done for me lately?"
I have had good faith in TR until this off season. It’s almost as though this offseason was so bad, hos accomplishments were an after thought. I will admit though, in 2009 watching Kaz pitch for us (regular season) was exciting… Very short lived
Bartolo Colon is so dreamy!
by Howie's Batting Title on Apr 14, 2011 12:31 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I am still down for firing him
WHOS WITH ME?
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Won my twitter bet
thanks all who followed me, pizza was so good, heart burn not so much
If we don't make the playoffs, I'll lead the charge.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
too late i think DOV took the leader role already
Don’t know, don’t care. People that criticize can kiss my ass. I don’t give a shit
-Kobe Bryant
me
or
stoneman
Meet up for Angels vs. A's Doubleheader Saturday, Jul 16, 2011
Won my twitter bet
thanks all who followed me, pizza was so good, heart burn not so much
For a grade, see Dean Wormer's response to Flounder, Blutarsky, D-Day, et al.
I see Reagins standing next to his frat buddies, embarassingly awaiting his grades from the Wormster.
the horror ............... the horror .......... the horror
"Weak, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life"
Dean Arte Moreno: Here are your grade point avarages. Mr. Wells: two C’s, two D’s and an F. That’s a 1.2. Congratulations, Wells. You’re at the top of the Angel pledge class. Mr. Mathis?
Mathis: [drunk] Hello!
Dean Arte Moreno: 0.2… weak, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. Mr. Scioscia, manager of the Angels? 1.6; four C’s and an F. A fine example you set! Brandon Wood… HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Rea…
[sees Tony with a pair of pensils in his nostrels]
Dean Arte Moreno: MR. Reagins… ZERO POINT ZERO.
by mustard_man on Apr 14, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I guess the Halos are on Double-Secret Probation now.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Napoli?
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Fits best into what?
Sweatpants with no elastic?
It was $37 million
Let Francisco Rodriguez walk. Or actually run, to $75 million paid by the Mets… No closer is worth that type of money.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Apr 14, 2011 12:36 PM PDT reply actions
Plus a vesting option for $17.5 million (for 2012)
Also, this list forgets TR’s first big move — signing Torii Hunter.
Count me in the group that remains undecided about TR. He has made some great trades to get Teixeira, Haren, and Callaspo. In those three trades, we gave up three players from our major league roster — Kotchman, who does not belong on a major league roster; Saunders, who is a mediocre pitcher; and O’Sullivan, who also probably does not belong on a major league roster. Time will tell what Skaggs amounts to, but those three trades were all great ones.
At the same time, the Kazmir trade has turned into a real blunder. Some predicted that at the time, others did not. In any case, the move has been terrible on multiple fronts, particularly financial. Time will tell with this offseason as well. Downs and Takahashi were good signings, but the Wells trade has the potential to be another big mistake, and this one had many more critics from the outset.
and Bobby Abreu too
actually a very good cheap signing by TR in 2009
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Apr 14, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps what can also be now added is
Managing to avoid signing Aroldis Chapman.
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
Also add Tex leaving to your second year.
You mention the Boras snafu but don’t mention Teixeira.
by Nathan Aderhold on Apr 14, 2011 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I lost faith in him when he traded for Karmis.
Karmis was awful before we got him. He had a 5.92 ERA in 20 games and was owed $25m for two more seasons. TR traded prospects that had some value for something no one else would take for just a salary dump. It’s the Vernon Wells deal on a smaller scale.
There was no reason to be excited about the trade at the time. You say hindsight says it was a bad move and point to the fact that he pitched well for us for his first few games. Isn’t that using hindsight?
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
I was fine with this trade
Until I found out that Sean Rodriguez was part of it. Too much to give up for what was a salary dump by TB.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
by Gorbachav5 on Apr 14, 2011 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's my point. You don't have to include prospects of any value when acquiring another team's salary dump, especially a team with the financial restraints the Rays have.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
The grade is a "D" trending towards a D-
the Matsui signing was a joke, it wasn’t going to help the team win anything and it didn’t. Fernando Rodney was a bad signing, Vernon Wells and his stellar, less than Mathis ,.102 B.A. and balls bouncing off his glove is horrible, espacially at the cost. Kazmir was another horrible trade, we get him because Reagins thinks he’s a Yankee Killer on the mound, the first time the Yankees face him they light him up. The Teixeria trade was mere rental and TR should have done his homework to see if Tex would re sign with the Angels so that is a fail.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
Kotch for Tex was awesome, even though Tex left.
We received draft pick compensation when Tex signed elsewhere, which gave us Mike Trout.
It wasn’t until the Karmis trade the TR started doing things that didn’t make sense. He’s really been schyzophrenic ever since. One day he’ll make a move that makes total sense a la Haren, then he’ll sign Fernando Rodney the next.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
Agreed
I’m cool with renting a player as long as the price isn’t too steep. I like Kotch, he’s a nice guy, but the Angels weren’t going to build a contender with him at first.
I believe Tyler Skaggs, who was a pretty nice piece of the Haren trade, was also compensation for Teix
I definitely don’t have a problem with that trade. Kotchman and Marek really haven’t done anything.
even if they had, it still would have been a good deal.
a firstbaseman with no power and a reliever for a half season of all star first base and 2 first round draft picks.
by Balls and Strikes on Apr 14, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
If Tex would have stayed it would have been awesome, we got a pick
which gave us Trout, which builds for the future as Trout is not on our roster, Fleet Pete and Trumbo are which is good. Reagins showing up late to the winter meetings like some Hollywood starlet was simply idiotic. We will now see if Vernon Wells starts to hit sometime this season, if he goes all Mathis on us then it may be Reagins downfall. The Haren trade is turning out to be gold but as the saying goes “even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then”
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
Matsui
How was that in any way a bad signing? It was short (one year), not a lot of money, and he provided exactly the production that was reasonably to be expected. Probably helped the franchise sell a few tickets and (more importantly) a few ads.
Yeah, Matsui sold some tickets, he was big off season signing of last year
the “Big Splash” of last year. He was to the Angels what Joe Namath was to the Rams, a big name with not much left physically to do the job, certainly not at a high level. He was a “marketing gimmick”. The Yankees didn’t offer him a contract after naming him the W.S. MVP. There was a good reason for that, he spent a large amount of time on the D.L., his knees are gone. Yet the Angels put him in the outfield when we could have had a younger guy in there for less money and more upside. Shitty signing meant to fool useful dupes.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
His Knees
still allowed him to hit 20 HR last year, and he played in 145 games, so who cares how much time he spent on the DL, for another team, in 2009? What does that have to do with anything?
He was signed to be a DH, and he played fewer than 20 games in the outfield.
You’re just completely out of touch with reality as far as Matsui is concerned.
by jjackflash on Apr 15, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Matsui was our offseason Splash last year, do you think thats a
championship caliber offseason for the Angels? wow, Matsui had 20 HR’s last year. He also failed a lot with runners in scoring position which could have won games. He did and the Angels did pretty much what I thought they would and predicted last year before the season started. What caught me by surprise was that Abreu led the team in stolen bases last year. And if I am so completely out of touch with reality than why wasn’t Matsui offered a contract? Did his 20 HR’s mean more last year then they would this year?
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
Do you mean the guy
Who hit .287 / .389 / .512 with runners in scoring position for the 2010 Angels? Or maybe you’re talking about the guy who hit .293 / .385 / .545 with men on base, including 14 home runs? Perhaps it’s the guy who hit .284 / .407 / .537 with two outs and runners in soring position. They’re all the same person, actually. Tall Japanese dude, left-handed, led the team in most of those categories. But I guess you’re right, he couldn’t pitch out of the bullpen, so what use was he?
by Suboptimal on Apr 15, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Damn, now I will have to take a gander through the game threads this weekend
and link all the times Matsui failed and all the comments on the game thread which I will do if I get a chance and they are available, he started the season with a few clutch hits that got even me excited but then became what I feared he would. Grant you the rest of the team wasn’t hitting for crap either but that still doesn’t make Matsui a great or even good signing when the team needed more than just a D.H. I would have rather they not sign Matsui and bring up Conger, Trumbo, or Fleet Pete last year. In my opinion Matsui was a crap signing and a marketing scam just like the Rams used to do, big name, way past prime, try to create excitement, but are not going to win anything. Give me youth over the tired retreads.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
The guy wasnt albert pujols but he came cheap and did his job
he was a good dh. He wasnt really a game changer, but he was solid.
by Balls and Strikes on Apr 15, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you enjoy the Angels 3rd place finish last year?
no it wasn’t all Matsui’s fault but he owns a part of it just like the rest of the team and especially Reagins as Matsui was his only real move besides losing Lackey and Figgins. Once again, Crapsui was not going to get us into the playoffs let alone the WS. and this thread is about Reagins and his moves, I think the Matsui signing was bad and a scam, I have seen similar moves by the Angels, Rams and other teams not in this local area, still its a scam against the fans as far as I am concerned. Was he solid? Ehh, maybe he was okay, but as a marquee signing he sucked, period. Or should I say, he was no Ichiro.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
He Did His Job
A player who does exactly what he is supposed to do is not a “crap signing.” Look we get it: you’re not a Reagins fan. Fine. But you lose all credibility when you make outlandish statements while spewing venomous red herrings. It was not Matsui’s job to get the team to the playoffs. He was not signed to be the fifth starter. He was not signed to be one of the many bullpen failures. He was not signed to step in for Kendry Morales and provide a seamless transition at 1B. He was not signed to keep 3B from being a black hole. He was not signed to provide offense from the catcher position.
The Angels needed a DH. There was nobody else in the organization capable of doing what he did last year.
You have failed to identify any fact-based reason why Matsui was not a good signing.
Jeane Claude Vandamme
Is that you?
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 17, 2011 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
If your complaint about Matsui is that we finished in 3rd, you might want to direct your disdain towards the shitty players on the team.
Matsui may not have been great, but he actually was the best hitter on the team last year. It’s usually the teams poorer performing players that cause the team to fail, not its better ones.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
By that logic, Jered Weaver also owns 2010
So does Torii Hunter and Bobby Abreu. Dan Haren owns a part of it too. How about Peter Bourjos? He was pretty useless with the stick in 2010. It was a lousy team that only won 80 games. Without Matsui they would have won 76-78 games. But if the rest of the team had been good enough for 89 wins, and Matsui had pushed them to 91 or 92 wins, just edging out the Rangers for a playoff slot, we would be calling him a hero today. He did what he was supposed to. Scott Kazmir, Brandon Wood, Jeff Mathis, Fernando Rodney, Erick Aybar, Brian Stokes, Jason Bulger, Kevin Frandsen, and all their friends didn’t. Blame Reagins for them. You have so many choices that singling out Matsui seems really peculiar.
So he wasn't Ichiro? Because he is japanese that is his only comp?
I dont know what your problem is, but dude,
A.) the rams havent been here for a looong time, get over it.
B.) Matsui was replacing vlad (you know, the guy who was DH for the team that went to the ALCS the year before) and did so very well. In fact, all of reagins signings last offseason did a good job of replacing the production lost to free agency.
…..Piniero replaced lackey well
…..rodney replaced oliver
The real fail here was wood (but figgins was a fail last year too). But reagins traded a crap pitcher and a prospect for a guy who (unfortunately got injured) looks awesome this year.
If every other player on the team (besides weaver) hadnt regressed last year we would have gone to the playoffs and had a good shot at a WS title.
I dont know why you dislike matsui so much. He did his job. If every other player had too, we would have done just fine last year.
by Balls and Strikes on Apr 16, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
It's all selective memory
Matsui was in a slump for a while and the team as a whole was struggling. Meanwhile, Vlad was hot (especially against the Halos) so fans naturally hated on Godzilla. The fact that the two ended up with essentially the same production by the end of the year is irrelevant – some fans simply had their minds made up, logic be damned.
It's amazing when you think about it.
I mean last year was absolutely horrendous. A friend of mine who is a serious baseball fan (Red Sox) trips out because when teams tank after successful runs they go years with bad teams and we freak out over what is essentially a .500 season after losing our three best players (unheard of) and our best setup guy and key injuries. Not only did Matsui, Piniero and Rodney come through but we reached a point where we were four games back with a real shot. Considering the amazing season Tex had, we lost the division rather than them winning it. Blown games was the difference even with nonexistent offense.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 17, 2011 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
yea cause
there’s some player out there that hits 1.000 in every RBI situation and doesn’t get complained at in the game threads.
On top of all the points SubOp made
Matsui was not retained for the simple fact that Abreu needed to be the DH this year, due to his awful fielding. If Bobby’s not in the picture I’m sure most of us would have been more than happy to have Godzilla return.
That's a Ridiculous
assessment of the Teixeira trade. First, there is no way to know if a player will re-sign. And the fact of the matter is, he would have signed if the Angels had been the highest bidder. They weren’t, but that’s not really on Reagins. Moreover, the team knew that it had another 1B in the system. Had they not traded Kotchman when they did, they probably would have been stuck with him and not gotten anything. Teixeira’s departure netted a first round draft choice, which turned out to be Mike Trout.
Wow, there is no way to know if a player will re sign?
Damn, you should have sent that memo to the Bo Sux and Adrian Gonzo who just re signed and they knew he was going to re sign before they traded for him. I don’t know that Tex would have re signed even if we were the highest bidder as it was known before the deal that his wife preferred the east coast where she grew up. Tex was a rental, a cog put in place to hopefully get the Angels to the WS. It was great to get Trout but that wasn’t why the deal was done.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
No, the deal was done because the Angels got great value
They got a couple months of a guy who did his part in helping the Angels try to win a World Series, which is the ultimate goal. That it didn’t work out certainly wasn’t Teixeira’s fault. They also got two draft picks. And the guys they gave up were barely above replacement level players. Whether Teix re-signed or not, this was a great deal. In fact, that’s WHY it was a great deal. The Angels got great value either way.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Teix + Boras
= signs for the most $$$. That’s how that works.
You really have no grip on reality if you think you can know, ahead of time, where a player will sign when he is a free agent. He went where the money was. His wife would have learned to love Newport Beach if the Angels had been the high bidder. Gonzales never became a free agent. If he had, you have no idea where he would have signed.
There was no “homework” to do on Teixeira. Or more accurately, there was…and it was clear he was going to test free agency. So what? He was an elite player. He did practically more in 2+ months than Kotchman did in his entire Angels career. It was a brilliant trade. If you’re unhappy that he went to NY, take it up with Arte. He’s the one that didn’t want to break the bank for the guy.
I'm saying it wasn't awesome or great, its a subjective argument but in my opinion
it was an okay move and a rental. Had he taken us to a W.S. showing then it would have been awesome or great, or if he would have re signed it would have been awesome or great. Sure we got a first round pick but that in itself does not make it an awesome or great trade in my book. I may grade to a tough curve but Tex was a rental in my opinion, nothing more.
12/14/10 4:30 a.m. pst. I wake up to find out that Cliff Lee screwed over both the Yankees and Rangers. The world has truly become a better place.
The Tex deal was a great move
think of it this way. Even if we knew for a fact that Teixeira wasn’t resigning, we traded Kotchman for two months of Teix and a first round and supplemental round draft pick. At that point, Kotch for a 1st round and supplemental round pick would have been a reasonable trade. Teix dramatically improved the probability of the Angels going to the World Series. They didn’t make the series, but it was a good deal.
Agreed
That’s the type of move a serious contender makes. I can’t even see a counter argument against it.
The grade is C-
At best, Tony is average in the role. Overall, he’s not great; he’s not terrible. What pushes him from a C to C- is his performance as a fiscal steward of the team’s payroll. In that capacity, he’s proven to be in my opinion completely inept.
he must have failed math
some people don’t care about how much we spend as long as we win. but i think real fans should be concerned about the financial health of the team as well.
here’s my grade of TR:
quality of players – B
quality of players per $$ – D
average – C
o_O
That's exactly right
I wonder how long Arte is going to let him piss away his money?
Money Management
And allocation of resources has been one of his shortcomings, to be sure. But strictly on a player personnel basis, I think it’s hard to assess without comparing him to his peers. His grade should be based on a curve. Very few GMs get it right every time.
I was thoroughly unimpressed with the moves this past offseason, but he has made some positive moves as well. But in order to grade him accurately, we have to see what the curve is.
In my head
I pretty much threw out NYY and BOS due to their bottomless resources. He has consistently performed at the level or above the level of teams with similare resources (Cubs, White Sox, Mariners, etc.)
FYI, my original grade was B-
I’m not sure why I dropped the minus. Perhaps the beautiful day and my optmimistic nature. I figured I would be a bit higher than most on the board either way.
I don't see how you can say the Angels have greatly improved outfield defense with the addition of Wells.
Wells’ UZR/150 for 2010 season was -7.0 and his carreer is -4.8. Juan Rivera’s UZR/150 for 2010 was -2.0 with a carreer of -1.8. Reggie Willits UZR/150 for 2010 was +4.5 with a carreer of -2.9.
Rivera and Willits are better fielders than Wells by a good margin, not that any of them are anything to cheer about, and Wells is certainly not getting any younger.
"It's our money," owner Arte Moreno said.
Because of the Wells trade and the length of the contract I give Tony a C-
"It's our money," owner Arte Moreno said.
In my eyes
A pretty good center fielder makes a really good left fielder. I sat in sec 103 last year and saw a ton of balls drop around Rivera, then Abreu. UZR or no UZR, ask Haren and Weaver who they would rather have out there.
I presume that you have had this conversaiton with Haren and Weaver and already know the answer?
If not, it’s a total fantasy on your part. You might as well have written:
“Facts and Reality or no Facts and Reality, just ask any Leprechaun and they will tell you where to find the pot of gold.”
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
Then why is Torii Hunter playing in right field?
I watch every game as well and so far I have seen “a ton” of balls drop in front of Vernon Wells pretty consistently. Haren and Weaver are going to say they have the best outfield in baseball, which also is not true, but that is who they have out there and they are not going to bad mouth them in any way because they are their team mates and they are paid to make those sort of canned comments.
"It's our money," owner Arte Moreno said.
Besides missing some transactions, as others have noted,
it would be helpful if you weighted, or scored, each transaction and generated a total. Then I could make some sense as to how you ended up at a “B”.
For example, what are the relative values you assign to letting a Garland go, versus bringing in Haren? If you see dropping Garland as a +1, do you see gaining Haren a +1, +5, +100?
I do find amusing your take on the Wells acquisition. “The contract notwithstanding…”? WTF??? Take away the contract and you are left with only a piddling of a discussion: Wells’ potential benefit across actual playing time, versus Naps/Rivera’s potential benefit across actual playing time. THE WHOLE POINT of the Wells angst is that this discussion amounts to minor differences in the overall scheme of offense/defense, but comes with a monumental financial burden that can only lead to future liabilities.
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
Agreed
I thought of that after I hit “publish.” An A through F rating of each transaction with a cumulative GPA would have been much more effective. It’s funny, the ideas always sound great in my head, but often don’t translate as well into the post. I’ll take some more time off before my next one.
excellent post!
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Good post, it was a fun read
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Apr 14, 2011 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this. Decisions should be weighted.
At the same time, if you’re really getting into it you have to understand we didn’t really trade Napoli and Rivera for Wells, but thats a different story. But weighting is key. YOu can quibble over this and that and everyone has their opinions, but everyone (I think) is smart enough to undertstand the big weight items: A few examples…
Things like B. Wood package for M. Cabrera/ Haren trade/2009/getting Tex/ signingTorii/outcome of Wells/Darren Oliver not even getting a phone call/signing the best OBP player in the world in ABreu/the billion dollars in savings created by ridiculous player development leading to real contributions/Kazmir/Lackey, Vlad, Figgy diss are tier 1 type decisions, weighted larger than others.
The money part simply involves details we are not aware of. Each team does it differently. Also consider, if you lose your GM you need to get another one. Do you really want to be the Mariners? Plus he has 8 years left…
B+
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: "if you’re really getting into it you have to understand we didn’t really trade Napoli and Rivera for Wells"
I think you might be mis-remembering the trade. Even the team’s website has one of those pretty little Lyle Spencer articles indicating that we did, in fact, trade Napoli and Rivera for Wells.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
Don't know why it didn't appear again. I won't use the link feature this time. I'll just do it ghetto style.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
Sorry
I know that’s the official trade, but you don’t have to look at it too long before you see that Napoli was actually cut/released. They threw him away for nothing.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Why offer arbitration then?
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
That must have been a problem.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
the problem
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
You are delusional if you think the Angels did not trade Napoli and Rivera for Wells.
The Blue Jays GM saw instantly that Napoli had good trade value and flipped him to the Rangers for pitching they needed. Tony Reagins got the wool pulled over his eyes on that part of the deal. We could have gotten a lot more for Napoli in a trade somewhere else than giving him away to the Blue Jays for nothing. This was the fail of that deal aside from the Wells albatross contract.
"It's our money," owner Arte Moreno said.
This is very true
But I think the second Napoli trade was also a salary dump by AA. The Blue Jays already had a young catcher and a pretty good 1B and plenty of power hitters, so Napoli wasn’t really needed in Toronto. And the Rangers ended up sending an injured arm AND cash to them. That has “salary dump” written all over it. But why? To extend Bautista and (I assume) to make a run at the big tamale next offseason. With AGon in Bahstin and Tex in NY, AA will likely go after Pujols with an A-Rod-type contract.
"My parents actually loved to pimp me too." - LSJ
The B. Wood package for M Cabrera? You can’t give him credit for things that didn’t happen.
Abreu is not “the best OBP player in the world.”
And yes, we really did trade Napoli and Rivera for Wells, no matter the mental gymnastics you’ve gone through to pretend otherwise.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Just guessing
that the mention of Wood/Cabrera is precisely because it didn’t happen (i.e., he gets a grade for failing to make that deal).
thank you
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Why are people arguing with "the big Vernon Wells trade fan?"
He should really change his screenname to show his love for the deal.
90 comments pre-trade (40 days, 2.25 comments/day), then 800 after it (90 days; 8.89 comments per day, at least 50% of them defending the trade). Is he a front office mole? The undying love for the deal is questionable.
Even if I loved the deal, I’d have to reach a point here where I’d question myself out loud on this board and say “what the hell is wrong with Vernon Wells.” The only way I would never question the deal is if I made the deal myself.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Apr 14, 2011 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
My activity is a result of work environment change
In other words, I didn’t always have access to the web before this offseason.
Don't think DR is referring to you...
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
I like the trade, but I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of it.
I’m just offering a differing viewpoint. Trying to flesh out the reasoning for making the deal. As you can see, most people don’t like it. I think it more beneficial that we have differing perspectives as long as we are all rooting for the Angels. Ever been in a bar when a deal is announced and 3 out of 10 people turn around and say “Is that good”? Some people just go with the answer given. I don’t.
The old isolate the guy for thinking differently thing is kinda juvenile, don’t ya think? BTW, I like your name.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
No, I respected your opinion ... the first 100 comments you made about it...
but it has just been over the top since… seemingly at ANY comment against Wells or the trade, regardless of your presence in the thread, you suddently chime in…
Note that from here on out, I will not argue one way or the other against you on this subject.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Apr 14, 2011 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Reagins, not Wells.
I do think he gets a shoddy deal here and maybe I over-respond, but in the wake of no defenders I do have a grave personal concern (as I’ve mentioned before) how his treatment reflects on the fanbase and the organization. He’s not perfect, but from his education to everything else, he’s received a minstrel-esque caricature on this site that my conscience compels me to defend, maybe too much. I don’t do it to make friends or enemies, but I think I do it within the frame of the discussion. I’ve never turned a blind eye to things my gut tells me is wrong, being on this blog doesn’t change that. Though, I do think Wells will be fine.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 15, 2011 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So then what's with questioning the loyalty of those who didn't like the trade?
If every commenter who had ever spoken out in doubt, frustration, or disagreement with something the Angels have done was not a “real fan,” then this blog would cease to exist. We are not here because we don’t care about the Angels. We are here because we care too much for our own good.
You come in here and call us all bad fans for not sticking up for our team when they’re getting shitkicked by the press, and then you defend yourself with arguments that most of us find completely ridiculous. When called out by others, you argue the opposite point and claim it was yours all along. If you want to cheer then cheer, and no one will bother you. Some people will even join you. I would even join you if I felt good about the state of the team. I just wonder how you’ll respond if this team finishes closer to 80 wins than 100.
@SubOptimal- I’m not sure what you mean. I absolutely understand why everyone is upset about the deal and in no way do I think it makes anyone a bad fan to hate the deal. If I suggested that, I screwed up. Not sure I understand the arguing the opposite point. I’ve been consistent that I like Napoli alot, I undertsand why they did the trade, and that I like it.
I really don’t get upset that a bunch of people argue with my position. I learn from them and engage, so yes I make concessions to part of their argument. To me all critiques of the deal are fair game, I enjoy offering the other perspective,
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 15, 2011 2:26 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL. Kick back...
I lumped what I thought were his mistakes in there too…
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
college of the desserts!
Somewhere, right now, Mickey Hatcher is ruining a swing.
by Quinlan's Goofy Swing on Apr 14, 2011 2:12 PM PDT reply actions
I'm taking ice cream sunday 101, sprinkles 357, and whipped cream 497
You?
by Balls and Strikes on Apr 14, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I missed by registration time and I got stuck in flan 236
Gonna be skipping a lot of class this semester
by Nathan Aderhold on Apr 14, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
You lucky, jammy Bastard!!!
I got stuck with Prune Souffle 374
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Other than missing a couple of TR's prominent acquisitions (Hunter and Abreu), this is a great write up.
Unfortunately, your grading system is too easy. TR deserves a C- at best.
A wise man does not need advice and a fool won't take it.
Oliver
I’ve said it before and I will say it again.
He was a type A and they did not offer him arbitration. Hmm. I think when he signed his last one year deal they had a gentlemens agreement to not offer arbitration so he could go play closer to home in Texas.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
That's what I recall reading here
at the end of the 2009 season. It was either not offer him arbitration so he could be closer to home or he would retire.
"Swung on and missed, he struck him out!" ~ Terry Smith
That's the rationale I've read in comments here, but have never seen a comment attributed to the team that was the case.
The only comments I remember from MSM asswipes who have contact with the team were that he was 38 (so how much did he have left in the tank) and arbitration would have given him a large raise.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
Did you watch the world series?
They reported it there as well. But I still say you talk him out of it. You can also find artcies with him thanking the team for it.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
The Angels weren't in the World Series this past year, why would I watch it?
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
by snowhor on Apr 14, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome answer!
I, um, was just checking in on a few former Angels….
Love that Benjie Molina!
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know the specifics
But it didn’t seem like there was much of an effort to keep him. Overall, I had no option but to peg it as letting him walk.
I'm glad you made this post
I’ve been meaning to make one on this for a while. It’s notable that if you throw out the Kazmir trade and last off-season Reagins has been very good. And frankly regarding last off-season, we still don’t really know how it’s gonna turn out. We just have speculation. Pretty good speculation based on sabermetrics, but speculation none the less.
I agree with this
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
No Trade Tony
I feel that Tony Reagins has a ways to go in learning how to put a deal together. Most deals are one way. Yes we go Haren and Calapso, but at a high cost. We gave up future pitching especially left handed starters for a topquality pitcher who now pitches on a team that can’t score runs. I am sorry, but this version of the Angels is not what Championship teams are made of. Looking at our lineup I don’t see a 90 RBI guy let alone 100. Bench is so weak it’s laughable. Willits, Woods, Wilson don’t really strike fear in you and collectively could muster up and average around .211. We may have quality pitching now but no Offense. When we do get offense our pitching will either be to old or notefore we canprovide him with run support. with us. What we had as our future we gave away for a singles batter which we have an abundance of and a quality pitcher that we will use ipb
AngelBum
by Angelbum on Apr 14, 2011 4:55 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
You lost me at "Haren at a high cost."
Skaggs is going to be good, but Haren is an ACE right now.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Apr 14, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too.
Reagins ‘effin STOLE Haren. (And I’d been love-eyein’ Haren since he was at Pepperdine).
Which is, in part, what makes TR such an enigma. Can one guy be THAT bipolar with respect to good sense/bad sense?
So, I’ve just about convinced myself that the Haren trade was enabled more by Arte’s close relationship with D-Backs management than by TR’s “skills”.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
by LAASurfin on Apr 14, 2011 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
F
Fire immediately.
Any contrarian posts supporting Tony are obviously relatives of Tony or Tony himself.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Darren Oliver...
….left the Angels to sign with Texas because he wanted to be closer to home. From what I remember, he’s been contemplating retirement for a long time now. Wouldn’t be suprised if this was his last season.
That was the original story.
But he later said he was interested in staying with the Angels. I have no idea why the Angels didn’t keep him around.
This is why I'm here.
Peter Tony, you can’t be serious.
This is a 30-ton war machine $86 million albatross.
I’m still not sure.
Did I mention the tank is a tank?
Sold.
I give Tony Reagins a B
It’s too easy to be critical of Reagins because there are so many trades and signings that could have been. We all look at every roster move as if we’re Tony and the perspective of what would we have done.
Me? I would have shelled out the money for Crawford, Beltre, and Soriano.
Bottom line, we only missed the playoffs once under his tenure, and that was largely due to Morales’ injury.
The Rangers played very poorly after the All-Star break. The Ranger’s record July to the end of the season was 43-42.
We have the fourth highest payroll in baseball....
….and a pretty mediocre team overall. That’s a failure. Our best player is Weaver and he’s probably on his way out the door. Our best position player is Hunter and he’s in his mid 30’s.
Oh, and if anything happens to Mike Trout, our farm system goes back to being below average. That’s just a lousy job.
by Robviously on Apr 14, 2011 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The good news.....there's a lot coming off the books.
The bad news, outside of GMJ, Reagins put it on the books.
I think Lackey/Figgins is worth something
Sure, he sporked it all away and then some on Wells, Kaz, etc.
But he wasn’t suckered into keeping two fan favorites around for more than they were worth.
He saved that for other team’s overvalued players.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel
Is that better?
We ended up spending similar money on guys who were WORSE. And I wonder if Figgins and Lackey would be struggling like they are if they’d never left the Angels.
no, it's not terribly better
I don’t know that Lackey would be much better than he is in Boston, but that’s still markedly better than Kazmir.
I think Figgins peaked with the Angels already, but there’s no way he would’ve fallen off a cliff in Anaheim.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - Always an Angel
I think the Lackey move was exactly the right call
He’d been living off of declining numbers and a good pitcher’s park for awhile. Not that he was a bad pitcher, but he was a classic case of a guy who was getting paid for past performance that had a VERY slim chance of being repeated. And Figgins was coming off a career year.
Given the black hole at third base the last few seasons (and at the leadoff spot in the lineup), I don’t think Figgins would have been a bad investment. Lackey would have been.
Reagins gets credit for that.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Why is this still being talked about?
I quit coming to Halos Heaven a month or two ago because I was tired of hearing about how much of a fuck up Tony is. He has made some great moves. He has made some extremely retarded ones. Oh well. Let’s all accept that Tony makes moves based on his Xbox MLB 2K6. THE SEASON HAS STARTED… SCREW TONY AND THIS PAST WINTER. GO ANGELS.
by scratchfeet on Apr 14, 2011 6:01 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
thebigtizzle aims to inspire...
When I post it’s for the people…
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Good post. I enjoyed reading it.
And I appreciate the effort you put into it. However….
It’s kind of pointless to give the guy a grade on his moves since we’ll never know all of the information behind those moves. I realize the Wells trade is almost indefensible based on who he gave up and the salary he took on, but maybe Arte told him to do it. Who knows if he didn’t say, “Look Arte, it’s a bad deal. We shouldn’t do it.” And Moreno told him, “Shut up and do it.” Sure, it’s part of his job to be the face of the front office, but he might not be the one pulling the strings.
Reagins appears to me to be in over his head compared to some other GM’s, but I’m not going to judge him without all the information.
by WiHaloFan on Apr 14, 2011 7:13 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Well said.
I echo that sentiment.
The only thing us fans should be concerned with is whether or not our team is built for contention at all. Are the Angels flawed? Yes, of course. Are they still in the hunt regardless of their shortcomings? Absolutely. If the FO throws in the towel and tanks the season by all means bitch away. Maybe you don’t agree with the particulars but the overall theme is to build a winner — whatever shape that takes.
A good post and a valiant attempt at explaining TR. Good job.
All I want is for them to have a chance, the rest I can live with. It helps to have Weaver and Haren, though.
"Working is the curse of the drinking class." - Oscar Wilde
by WateringTheGarden on Apr 14, 2011 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
This...
I’d say this offseason I definitely saw a less assured look. But as you say, it’s one of those things where all of us are just speculating. We don’t know who makes which calls. Most important, Arte could be totally happy with the guys performance. Once/If TR builds a consistent track record of winning fewer will doubt his moves in the future…
Epstein has Crawford, Lackey, and Dice-K. Thats way more pork but he brought the yams. TR just has to bring back the yams…it all balances out.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 14, 2011 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
You are right....
….it doesn’t sit with me too well how Arte was making a stand against the free agents this offseason that he wasn’t going to get seduced into a ridiculous contract. Then all of the sudden they pick up Wells huge, ridiculous contract. WTF!?
Did Arte panic and make the move just for the sake of making a splash? Did Arte make TR to make the move? Is TR just a clown? Did TR not even think to negotiate Toronto to pick up more of the contract? Something seems fishy…..
Don't you wish you had a seat at an MLB GM's table?
I wonder how one could swing a 12 month shadow gig with the Halos, ala a contemporary Michael Lewis?
Would we be amazed, or aghast?
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
Corporate cultures never make sense from the outside
And the Angels especially seem to be proud of their closed system. In situations like that, organizations usually develop strong group mentalities. It isn’t just groupthink, where people agree with each other to avoid the unpleasantness of public controversy. Organizations learn to do certain things and think a certain way just like people do. Whether they’re right or wrong, their conduct would probably seem bizarre. They’re bottled up so tight even the rest of the industry is perplexed by their recent actions.
I’m currently researching the contracting process for defense R&D on communications systems, and I’ve read some of the sociology. There might be a parallel. The Angels aren’t a very big organization, and they certainly don’t have a tradition that can compare with established military cultures, but man, when it gets to the point that not even your business partners can figure you out, then you have to suspect that everyone on the inside is just thinking the same thoughts over and over.
This I understand.
The main part of my career in technology was spent driving modern IT technology into, and throughout, a 100 year old law firm that prided itself on it’s culture of collegiality.
It was pretty clear (to both sides) at the end of my time that I was becoming somewhat of an outsider because I was trying to educate the leadership that incoming Associates fresh out of law school were at the leading edge of the Nintendo/Facebook/Friends generation, and their career aspirations are markedly different from the past, and would need to be fed and nurtured, not corrupted into conformity with a 1930’s men’s club business model.
The very reason I stepped up as an advocate was because I was very attuned to the prevailing organizational mindset (at a macro level, above any individual) and how that had been nurtured and venerated from generation to generation. I recognized a coming challenge to the firm, and found it my responsibility to raise awareness and recommend solutions.
It was kind of unfortunate, really. At one point I was a very successful part of a technology revolution within this law firm. Here is the press release from Research In Motion announcing handheld portable corporate email. This is work that I was an extremely integral part of. Notice how that was November of 1999. Here is the press release from RIM announcing their invention of the Blackberry email in the first place. Note that this was only 6 months earlier. I was on the customer side of the RIM alpha and beta development projects for Blackberrys. Somehow, in the late 90’s, this firm was willing to experiment with cultural change and the partnership was willing to completely reinvent the way that they maintained their human connections with each other.
Fast forward jsut a few years to 2006. Apple is dribbling out rumors about the iPhone. I began to use my leverage at the top of the MIS department to shift mindshare away from RIM and towards Apple. I foresaw that the coming iPhone would change EVERYTHING about handheld productivity, and I had signed up the firm to be among the first owners. In January of 2007 Apple released their product. I was correct. Even RIM has had to radically alter their product to mimic Apple.
But I was also wrong.
The “new” way of collaboration (Blackberry) had now become the new established way. The organizational mindset had now turned Blackberry into something more substantial than merely a tech standard. It was now part of the DNA. And I was a threat to that. My IT Steering Committee members were highly uncomfortable with my messaging. They did not want to see what would happen to the handheld world, since that was an abandonment of the more conservative RIM philosophy that they had integrated so well into the culture. By May of 2007, less than 4 months later, I had resigned my position. Not exclusively because of this, but this was indicative of the larger reasons why I left. My service had run its course for that organization. I had brought them out of the 60’s and into the 90’s, and that was far enough for now, thank you very much.
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
You want to be in my dissertation?
Seriously, this is my main argument, almost exactly. Just substitute United States Air Force for 100 year-old law firm, AT&T/Honeywell for Research in Motion, and nuclear-tipped things that could end human civilization for Blackberries. You are Harold Brown and a lot of other people with physics degrees. Well, and Air Force culture made it to the early 1960s from the 1940s, but that was the end of the line until the Goldwater-Nichols Act in 1986.
"Do you believe...
…that radical ideas threaten institutions, then become institutions, then reject those radical ideas that threaten institutions?"
"Jeff doesn't have his head buried in the sand. He knows it's a defensive position and he brings a lot on the defensive side." - Mike Scioscia, head buried deep in the sand.
So, you're saying fire the owner, GM and manager?
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
I truly apprecciate your feedback
Every team has a fan base which questions its GM. That’s a part of the game. Honestly, one of my favorites. When I look at teams with similar financial resources and status in the game, I think Tony holds his own. I’m sure many a White Sox fan laments taking on Peavy’s salary, the Mariners had a $100 million payroll last year, and the Cubs…..well they are the Cubs.
I think the next 3-5 years, when Tony has assembled the vast majority of the team and Stoneman’s players are gone, will define the Reagins era. So far it’s mixed, but if my posts indicate anything it’s that I am an optimist when it comes to the Angels.
I also agree
There’s more to being a GM than working trades all day long. He has to deal with pressure from the owner as well as a strong manager in Mike Scioscia.
Maybe Mike Napoli really doesn’t have a big trade value….who really knows? I know it’s been brought up before, but The Rangers are running Torrealba out there almost everyday while Napoli still get’s his days off. Maybe he just rubs coaches the wrong way. Who knows? Anyway, there was no way the Angels were going to have 4 Catchers hanging around this year, so someone had to leave. Not to mention the emergence of Trumbo at 1B to backup Morales. That someone may have hit 26 HR, but the Angels wanted him out, so he was out. Salaries aside, if Wells ends him hitting near his career avg, it will be a case of “addition-by-subtraction”. Conger and Wilson are the future. Wells should be able to hold down the fort in the OF for the next few yrs. Besides, Betre’s contract is going to be very painful in a couple years for a 35 yr old 3B. Maybe he wasn’t really the answer.
I
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
Kasmir & Wells
Everyone Knows 2 dumbshits > 20 attaboys
It's fine to grade each trade individually without concerning yourself with the financials,
and it’s even better to include the money in looking at each trade. But there is a big difference between signing Rodney who probably wasn’t worth 2/16 and trading for Wells who is being overpaid by about 30-40 million dollars. That’s crippling when looking at the future of this franchise. Even if you give the Wells trade an F (and it is early), that doesn’t even cover the inevitable harm it’s done to our finances as a franchise. Vernon could hit .280/30/100 for the next four years and STILL be overpaid by 20 million dollars. There is no excuse for that.
My overall grade: C (replacement level)
by lightupthehalo29 on Apr 14, 2011 8:03 PM PDT reply actions
Agree with you mostly
Abreu, Hunter, the Tex trade, and the very genius Haren trade
My main disagreement with you…not re-signing Vlad should be a neutral move. I love Vladi, but if he was such a boon for Texas last year, why doesn’t Texas re-sign him this year? Vladi played well last year because he felt jolted and had something to prove. The hit to his ego (of not being given his contract from the Angels) definitely motivated him in Texas. We’ll see how he does in Bal.
But… I do wish we kept Vlad to play DH or pinch hit occasionally, and be kept away from the cleanup spot. Moved down in the order. It would have been EPIC for Vlad to retire a Halo.
I can’t be too hard on TR for the Kaz move. It could have gone either way as Kaz’s success (or lack thereof) is unpredictable. A former strikeout king. He came in 2009 and brought the Halos to the division lead (remember his wins with 0 run support when our offense went through its phase of anemia?). He pitched well to close the season. We have him for 2 full seasons. It was a risk, only a 2 year risk, I don’t consider it an albatross. You have to take some risk in your moves.
Now Wells? I can’t defend it. The contract is very ridiculus. Mostly good moves. Only 1 real albatross. But a HUGE ALBATROSS it is. Grade B-
at least
wells is hitting better than Crawford so far…..
by Giambi'sGoldenThong on Apr 18, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I tell you one thing: he gets an A+ for the Haren trade
This season:
D for the at least the financial part of it
(Toronto should have given us a lot more money in return)
As for the rest: Incomplete—too early to tell.
Have to wait and see how it all pans out. Vernon turns it on and leads us to the series—
we could be looking at an A
and forgive the economic transgressions.
I'm glad to see TR's moves in once place
when I see everything all together, TR doesn’t seem nearly as bad as I once felt. Seems like he knows when to let a guy walk for the most part. Man talk about great timing letting Lackey, Figgins and K-Rod go. Seemed like they where sure shots for a few more years, but man those guys went downhill in a hurry.
Plus the Haren and Teixera acquisitions where pretty impressive.
Powered by Yankee lovers tears!!!!!
Since I don't know how FO and arbitration works...
Does TR have any hand in giving Mathis a big raise this offseason through arbitration (and haggling with Weaver for pennies)? Cause if so that is a fail and a half.
Wells and the Weaver arbitration make me doubt TR's competence.
Certainly Wells is overpaid by any measure and so that trade always looks like the Toronto FO has compromising pictures of someone for that not to be a VW + CASH trade.
More alarming in my view is not paying the relative pittance, (when compared to agreeing to pick up Wells’ contract certainly) is “winning” the Weaver arbitration. TR then tells the LAT: “As far as the arbitration process, it’s behind us. We have Jered under control for this year and next year.”
Yippee, Weaver is a Boras client who will certainly tell Weave to shop around. A lot of money is coming off of the books. Rather than “control” Weave on the cheap for two years, take some of that prospective cash and lock up your local kid “ace” pitcher who still has good years ahead of him. Look what the A’s did with Cahill. They avoid poor mouthing their pitcher in arb, (one who could be easily slammed using sabermetrics), and avoid Cahill going to FA status as scheduled. The A’s might be smaller market, but they know how to build an effective pitching staff. One of the integral steps is don’t piss off your younger starting talent into looking for greener pastures by treating them as interchangeable. How replaceable is Weave if he decides to go FA in two years?
It seems TR has an eye for when players are going into decline, but he has seemingly no sense for the future competitiveness of the ball club in the longer term. It seems as if there is no overarching plan to build a WS contender, just some reactive moves that give the illusion of a plan.
Roses Ain't Orange!
I have a much bigger issue offering Mathis arbitration
than haggling with Boras over Weaver’s arbitration prize. Weaver’s remarkable success to date coupled with his mega-agent make a comparison to Cahill irrelevant. The only Boras client I can think of to sign a significant extension was Carlos Gonzales, but I have to believe that was Boras having the foresight to realize that Gonzales was going to be correctly valued on the free agent market due to his inflated Coors numbers. He knows Weaver is a healthy ace in his prime and has every intention of taking him out on the open market. Unless the Angels offer more than anyone else, he is moving on, regardless of how he was “treated” in arbitration. And no, being a local boy probably doesn’t matter that much. Not when you’re a Boras client, anyways.
$1.7 million for Mathis to provide negative value, however, is simply unforgivable. As is offering arbitration to players like Quinlan and Willits when you can get exactly the same production (or better) through your AAA club. While none of those contracts are going to cripple the club like Wells or Kaz, saving a few million on the margins every year could go a long way towards matching some of these deals that they’re just falling short on (Tex, Beltre, etc.).
As someone already stated above, he assessment of players isn’t what’s so wrong with Reagins – he makes the same dumb mistakes as most GMs. It’s how inefficient he is with the team payroll that makes him appear to be so incompetent. If it’s really Moreno and/or Scioscia pulling the strings, then he’s equally incompetent for not convincing them of a better way, as a good GM should at least attempt to do.
Carlos Gonzalez was also a year away from arbitration
At this point, any talk of a Weaver or Morales extension is pure fantasy. When their times come, the Angels will either pay the most or nothing at all.
Here's where his standing in the FO comes into question
Obviously, nobody here sits in the meetings, but Sosh is the only person to publicly proclaim the benefits of Mathis. One would think that a logical GM would look at the obvious and DFA him. Unless, of course, the GM doesn’t have the pull witht the owner that the coach does.
The Mathis arbitration decision is the one instance which makes me think he’s a step below Sosh on some fronts.
I have it figured out
Tony has an evil identical twin brother. Good Tony made the Haren and Tex trades, evil Tony made the Kaz and Wells trades. There’s no other way to explain it. Cumulatively I give them a C-.
by Bolt Deck on Apr 15, 2011 11:34 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Has anyone checked for a goatee on TR when he announces these things?
I think Gubi is from the Mirror Universe.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Length Of Contract post-Steroid Era is Key
It’s pretty clear that the Angels are competitive in their marquee player negotiations when it comes amount paid per year, they just fall down on length of contract.
Which I agree with. The durability of these players is a major question now that they are off the juice. Look at Torii, he’s lost a step or three in the last season and into this season.
The BoSox just announced that Adrian Gonzalez to a 7 year $154 million dollar deal. That put’s him at 36/37 at the end of the deal.
Does anyone believe that he’ll be worth that sorta cash at the end of the contract?
The players and agents are still behaving like that have a shot at still being great as they push 40. Teams like the Yanks and Sox feed into that by caving into those demands.
Let's Go P-BO!
anyone mention the Derek Lee trade that Lee vetoed last year?
Not sure this move would have pleased many.
Reggie Willits: The non-tender candidate of my dreams.
Mmm, yeah. I'd forgotten about that one too.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." ~Bill Veeck
....And Tony sits in his SCIF reading well past his bed time........
“Honey……come to bed….forget about what those horrible/mean blog-whores are writing about you”.
Thanks Everybody
I am glad you all took the time to read the post (hopefully, you read the post) and comment.
D OR D-I actually have more and more respect for Bill Stoneman
Bill actually built a solid minor league system and we had solid pitching. Tony gambles and craps out. I am not a fan of Reagins. Moves I never liked from Day one:
Signing two former Yankees over 36 Abreu and Matsui. I am not into signing players over 32. Im in the minority in not a fan of Abreu and has a feeling he will have an average year.
Kazmir trade and Wells Trade: Kazmir and Wells down years in the last year with their former team. Sean Rodriguiz I remember his bomb to deep center in the metrodome. But, I thought the Angels should of kept srod in case we had to move Kendrick who is having a good year or another infielder for a solid number one or two pitcher, along with prospects. Then srod could of played second or another infield position.
Singing Fuentas another player who lost his closer role the year before for sometime with the Rockies. Knee Jerk reactions to loosing Franky. I actually thought we should of overpaid for him. Very hard to come by a good closer these days, sometimes you have to ovepay for the position.
FInally, I liked Cabrera at short. Trade was ok, if he resigned Garland. But he did not, so that was a bad move, even though Cabrera was a FA at the end of the year. Garland is a good #4 or 5. Dependable, solid, gets deep into the game and pitches a lot of innings in the year.
Should of overpaid for Lackey and Franky thats it. But, Lackey was sick of Mike’s pitch count. Everyone says at leaqst he got rid of Juan cant hit in the clutch Rivera. Thats true, but could of traded him earlier and not for someone who is on the downside of his carer.
by ca1forniaangels on Apr 20, 2011 7:01 PM PDT reply actions
Uhh
Abreu has been great since being here and Matsui had a good year last season. Any dislike for either of them comes from personal bias and has zero to do with their production on the field.
Not sure how you look at Wells’ 2010 and say he had a down year. Yes, Kaz has been awful, but Sean Rodriguez still wouldn’t have a spot on this roster. He’s a nice player but we are fine without him. If you’re going to pick on the trade, you have to mention Torres and Sweeney, who will likely play well for the Rays one of these days, and Kaz’s inflated salary.
Fuentes pitched just as well as Frankie over the last two seasons. Look at the numbers, they don’t lie.
Cabrera was redundant when Reagins traded him. Aybar was poised to launch his big league career, Izzy was essentially just as good as Cabrera and at the time the team had Wood waiting in the wings. Garland gave us some innings and I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) netted us an extra draft pick.
Overpaid for Lackey and Frankie? Do you realize Lackey has been so disappointing in Bahstin that he is being skipped in the rotation right now, in spite of making more scratch than any current Angel pitcher? And Frankie’s salary is currently what our two highest paid relievers make combined. Paying $12 million a year for a reliever is dumb for every team that plays outside NY, especially when we have 2 or three guys who are essentially as good as Frankie right now.
Um, good point about Rivera, I guess. Considering his salary, however, there was never a rush to trade him while he was still productive.
by dmhead on Apr 21, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
wells
dmhead your right Wells had a good year last year, but had three straight poor years before last year. Plus, hitting in the skydome is a little different then hitting at the big A. I did not like the Aberu signing because of his age and the thought that he would not have two productive years. As I read on this website, an ESPN analyst said the ANgels are older and the payroll is higher with Reagins as the team was younger with Stoneman.
Lackey looked fine to me on Sunday. Lackey is a bulldog. He would get injured here or there. But healthy he is an 18-21 game winner. I think the Angels worried that Franky would have arm problems, one reason why they did not resign him.
By the way, I think we have acquired more centerfielders this decade then any other team. Matthews, Hunter and Wells. I know Stoneman signed Matthews.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Apr 25, 2011 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong
I have been 100% against the Wells trade from the moment it was announced. I was simply correcting your statement that he was coming off a down year.
Are you sure Lackey looked good on Sunday, or did the Halos just look bad? I’m honestly not sure either way. Still, it’s tough to ignore that since his 19 win campaign in 2007, Lackey’s ERA has steadily gone up each year while his strikeout numbers have steadily gone down. We jumped ship at the right time. I’ll take Haren at $12 million a year over Lackey at $17 million a year, thanks.
Can’t argue your last point at all. This year the team is paying out about $50 million for centerfielders, and NOT ONE OF THEM is actually playing center. TrAdition!
"of" should be "have" on at least 4 occasions
Example: You should HAVE known this before posting such poorly written words!
By the way, welcome back. I’m just testing your thin skin! ;)
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Apr 21, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Fuentes
Fuentes was a band aide or lets just say a panic move to sign him when Frankie left. Awful move when Fuentes was removed as a closer for a while with the Rockies. Also, why is he not with the team any more? Because he stunk as a closer. Id take Frankie any day over Fuentes. I still recall the damm Home run in game 2 in New York to Arod. Ok my fault on Wells, he had a good year last year. In 2007, 08 and 09 he was average. Then had a good year last year, sounds like a gary Matthews situation. FInally, Aberu cannot cover ground in the outfield, and as a DH I believe he does not hot enough HR’s. I just didnt lie signing two players 36 and older, I did not care if they came from the Yankees. I wanted Alfonso Soriano when he was a FA. I believe sometimes you have to overpay for a good closer. Look at Boston, they have two closers Jenks and Papplebon. The Angles have had a good history of clossers. Lee Smith, Troy Percival, Frankie and yes Frankie was not the same as he was in 2002 but he was still better then half the other closers in the league. As for grammer I am doe with HS do not need an old wrinkled lady marking my paper up left and right in red and with the word rewrite on the paper!!!!!
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Apr 23, 2011 1:22 AM PDT reply actions
Yes, I remember ARoids HR off Fuentes
And I cursed him for it. But I also remember Frankie’s HR allowed to Manny. Oh, and to JD Drew the next year. Do you remember those? Again, no difference between those two pitchers, other than their salaries and the hand they throw with.
One last thing: I can’t help but giggle when you mention Lee Smith (and his one good half season for the Halos) among the team’s rich history of closers and totally neglect to mention Mr. Bryan Harvey. C’mon, dude!
Don't forget Washburn's walk to the mound too longer than his outing.
Big Papi bode us good night.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
by thebigtizzle on Apr 25, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Frankie compared to Fuentes stats not even close!
This is not even close, Frankie the power pitcher and Fuentes? You serious? yes closers are going to blow games. But, my goodness I never felt comfortable with Fuentes as a closer. He did not throw hard, made an adventure of the ninth inning and like I said was benched as a closer the year before the Angels signed him. Now was Frankie the Frankie of 2002? Of course not, but I would still take him over Fuentas and our closer today who ever it is, I will say Rodney .Scoscia overused Francisco and would not allow his starters to actually complete games. But stats do not lie, check below ERAS. I will just post the pitchers last two years with the halos. As for Lee Smith, he was an All-Star the year with the Halos had a very good first half.
Francisco Rodriquez-
2007 5 W 2 L 2.81 ERA 40 saves 67.1 innings 90 K 33 BB H 50 HR 3
2008 2 W 3 L 2.24 ERA 62 Saves 68.1 innings 77 K 34 BB H 54 HR 4
Brian Fuentes
2009 1 W 5 L 3.93 ERA 48 saves 55.0 innings 46 K 24 BB H 53 HR 6
2010 4 W 1 L 3.52 ERA 23 saves 38.1 innings 39 K 18 BB H 28 HR 5
Homeruns per 9 innings 0.4 and 0.5 for Frankie last two years with Angels and Fuentes was 1.0 and 1.2. I can go on and on strike outs per inning and hits per inning.
Bottom line is that it is hard to get a good closer. Frankie was an above average closer, Fuentes just stinks. As for money, I heard the Angels original offer was close to the offer the Mets signed him for I believe it was 4 years 36 million. I just think it was a shame to let to big pieces of the Angels pitching staff go (Frankie and then Lackey) and sign crap.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Apr 25, 2011 1:26 PM PDT reply actions
Frankie wanted 3yrs/$45M better known as "Mariano Rivera Money."
When he thumbed his nose to the Halos’ offer of 3yr/$34M, he burned a bridge.
He ended up signing for 3/37 or something quite close to the Halos original “low-ball” offer.
Get off your horse on this one … we all know Frankie was better, but he was headed for payday, bro. Fuentes did OK, but you are right, he was no Frankie Rodriguez. And since that deal, Frankie Rodriguez has not been Frankie Rodriguez. If you ran Frankie’s 2009 and 2010 against the same 2007/2008 numbers, you’d again point to the 07/08 guy as “better.”
Plus, do I need to mention Frankie’s off-the-field antics? Yikes … something about a 10-foot pole comes to mind.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Apr 25, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
10 foot pole
Funny I am actually laughing, need a laugh now and then the way the Halos are playing. dhead stated " Again, no difference between those two pitchers, other than their salaries and the hand they throw with" Seems that he thought both pictures have equal talent. Bottom line is if you want to win sometimes you have to go the extra mile and cant take it personal when an athlete thumbs his nose to the team. When Frankie found out the market would not pay him what he wanted, the Angels should of jumped back in. Its a shame to see some of our homegrown talent leaving and signing for more $$$ and Fuentes to me was a desperate move to sign a closer because Frankie was gone. Just like last year loosing the big three so Reagins thought Matsui and Abreu would be the band aide for the players who left via free agency.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Apr 25, 2011 6:51 PM PDT reply actions
Since you refuse to drop it...
First of all, I’m not attempting to diminish what Frankie did while he was here. He is likely the best reliever in the history of the franchise. That said, isn’t what’s relevant in this debate what he has done since he left? Your stance is the team would have been better off if they paid up for Frankie rather than settling for Fuentes, so let’s see how they compared over the two years since K-Rod left Anaheim. I’ll use some very basic raw stats here:
Frankie 2009:
Saves/Chances – 35/42 (83%)
ERA – 3.71
HR/9 – 0.9
SO/9 – 9.7
BB/9 – 5.0
Salary – $9 million
Fuentes 2009:
Saves/Chances – 48/55 (87%)
ERA – 3.93
HR/9 – 1.0
SO/9 – 7.5
BB/9 – 3.9
Salary – $8.5 million
Hmm, pretty damn close if you ask me. Frankie had better strike out numbers, but Fuentes beats him in save percentage, with everything else being a virtual tie. Let’s look at 2010:
Frankie:
Saves/Chances – 25/30 (83%)
ERA – 2.20
HR/9 – 0.5
SO/9 – 10.5
BB/9 – 3.3
Salary – $12 million
Fuentes (includes 10 games w/ Minnesota):
Saves/Chances – 24/28 (86%)
ERA – 2.81
HR/9 – 0.9
SO/9 – 8.8
BB/9 – 3.8
Salary – $9 million
Again, very similar up and down, with Frankie’s only edge being K’s, while Fuentes was once again a bit more efficient in collecting saves. Just for fun, let’s look at how your hero stacks up against our current closer so far this season:
Frankie 2011:
Saves/Chances – 4/5 (80%)
ERA – 2.35
HR/9 – 0.0
SO/9 – 15.3
BB/9 – 7.0
Salary – $11.5 million
Mr. Walden:
Saves/Chances – 3/3 (100%)
ERA – 0.00
HR/9 – 0.0
SO/9 – 9.6
BB/9 – 4.8
Salary – $414,000
So, can you please explain again how we would have been better off shelling out big bucks for Frankie?
There are only two stats that matter in the world, CERA and Grit.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
You're right, I should have included it.
CERA, afterall, is also a component of GRIT. It would be unfair to highlight CERA while ignoring RISP2.
Seriously, GRIT is just about the best stat out there, with those two others tied for second place. There are so many things that make it great, I don’t know where to start. CERA and RISP2 are only a small part of its calculation.
Here is a partial list of some other items that go into the full calculation of GRIT:
1. Number of times a manager irrationally attributes a win to a seemingly undeserving player.
2. How many times the announcer indicated the player stayed within himself, changed some eye levels or went the other way.
3. Whether or not the player played football in college (extra points for being a punter).
4. Staying aggressive on the basepaths and getting thrown out trying to take the extra base (extra points for running through a stop-sign by a basecoach).
5. Number of times a catcher prevented a baserunner from stealing CF.
6. How well a player tips his cap to the opposing team after an embarrassing loss to some worthless prospect just up from the minors who will never amount to jackshit.
7. Negative points for walks and solo homeruns.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
A friend and I once attempted to formalize GRIT as a toy stat
We never got to the spreadsheet phase, but we awarded GRIT points for being:
1. Short.
2. White.
3. A middle infielder, catcher, or center-fielder (extra for being a utility fielder).
4. A “tough out,” i.e. avoiding the three true outcomes.
5. A groundball hitter.
6. A just-slightly-better-than-average batting average.
7. Healthy almost all of the time.
8. Playing for lots of different teams.
9. Playing on multiple playoff teams.
10. “Clutch,” which we assumed would be manifest as one fluky season with RISP or a hot playoff series.
It’s actually all quantifiable in principle. I’m sure David Eckstein’s name would come in at the top of the list, but then again, the whole scheme was cooked up with him in mind.
Awesome. That would likely produce an accurate list of those who are commonly portrayed as Gritsters.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
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