Angels Trade Deadline Topic
by Of Maicer and Men on Jul 20, 2011 1:28 AM PDT
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For the next eleven days, we sit and wonder several things.
Some rumblings I've heard lately are that the Angels are deeply intrigued by Wilson Betemit (just what we need, another useless KC third baseman), and it appears that the Royals feel similar, as (via Jon Morosi) KC scouts were on hand for Salt Lake's game tonight.
Of course, the Aramis Ramirez rumors refuse to die, even though he can (and likely will) veto ANY trade possibility.
However, I created this thread to hear what the rest of HH would love to see. I'll share a couple of my sick fantasies of trades, and let the rest of you share your thoughts on berate/criticize them. Keep in mind, though, that these are more out of pure desire, and use very little common sense--so don't hold that against me.
1) Angels acquire Ubaldo Jimenez from the Rockies in exchange for Ervin Santana, Bobby Abreu, Alexi Amarista and Trevor Reckling. The only common sense involved here is that the Rockies want a package containing a major-league arm, a major-league bat and two prospects. Santana would be the likely return piece for Jimenez, seeing as Reagins wouldn't throw away Chatwood (at least not yet), and trading Pineiro would be pointless, at least to a non-contender. Jimenez would give us the American League's greatest three-headed monster (Weaver-Haren-Jimenez) without a question. The most irrational piece of this trade? In my opinion, Bobby Abreu--I mean, the Rockies have no place for him (although his option would likely rot away in that case). But hey, my own fantasy.
2) Angels acquire Mike Adams from the Padres in exchange for Rich Thompson and Daniel Tillman. Tillman will be a stud someday. Thompson (at least when he's in for 2/3 of an inning or less) is already a stud. But let's face it--our middle bullpen is hideous. An injury carousel hides the mediocre, while the even worse appear in our games. Adams has quietly become one of baseball's best setup men, and he could definitely help our bullpen out a bit (gives us another three-headed monster of Adams-Downs-Walden). Most irrational piece of this trade? Giving up Thompson, who is under team control until 2013(?), while Adams is under team control through 2012. Like I said, little common sense involved here.
So let's hear YOUR trade ideas, if you have any. Should we even be buying at this point? Selling? Standing pat?
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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For a guy on pace for a 109 OPS+, a .364 OBP, and 3.8 WAR
we sure do give a lot of shit to Alberto Callaspo this year.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 20, 2011 1:59 AM PDT reply actions 10 recs
We give him a lot of shit for 2 big reasons:
1) He hits like a middle infielder on a team whose DH hits like one as well and their corner outfielders are hitting below .240
2)3b is probably the only position that we don’t have a long-term solution at (given that Trumbo is going to be a corner OF).
Neither is really his responsibility and neither is fair but a middle of the lineup 3b remains a big need.
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
Follow me on Twitter: @alexvanroekel
So basically we give him shit because we're stupid?
Gotcha.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 20, 2011 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn't calling anyone names.
Read the context.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 21, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, childish name calling. The ultimate way to win any argument...
The fact that he is at the bottom among 3B in silly stats like HR’s and RBI’s is a problem for me. Not to mention that of his 88 hits, only 16 have been for extra bases. See, I can cherry pick stats to prove my point too!
His numbers would be fine if he was a speedy second baseman with a great glove. Instead he’s a relatively slow third baseman with a decent glove. He plays a position that usually comes with power and run production, and he’s a slap hitter who doesn’t produce runs. Plain and simple.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jul 21, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Childish name calling?
No, I didn’t call anyone a name…I merely asserted that, if the reason that we TRULY give Callaspo shit is because of the reasons that the above individual insisted, then the reasons he’s “given shit” are, in fact, stupid. Quite simple.
I didn’t “cherry pick” my stats. You did. I used a fairly all-encompassing statistic that accounts for offensive and defensive overall worth relative to league replacement players to show his production.
Callaspo didn’t ask to be the starting third baseman for the 2011 Angels. He was brought to the team with his given skill set a known quantity, and was asked to produce. And, despite the very general expectations of a third baseman, he has done so. He hasn’t produced in any traditional sense of third base power, but he has contributed to the Angels in other valuable ways that have seen him be a valuable asset. To fault him for being called in to fill the position is stupid. And the whole original point was me taking issue with the original poster calling him a “useless KC third baseman.”
Your expectations of the position in general are a dumb reason to hold an individual accountable who is otherwise highly productive. 3rd usually comes with power and run production? Fine, take it up with Reagins. But don’t expect me to not take issue with a productive player being called “worthless” because he doesn’t fit some general position mold.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 21, 2011 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no point in arguing with a child
In that one post you claimed my opinion was “dumb” and “stupid”, so short of calling you a doo doo head, I have nothing that will fall into your realm of schoolyard BS. All I can say is you and I have very different ideas on what “highly productive” is.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jul 21, 2011 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, my definition of "highly productive" involves WAR
which is an overall view of how much value a player contributes to a team, weighted by position. Callaspo’s current 2.2 WAR (fangraph’s calculation, not b-ref’s) ranks him as the 7th most productive 3rd baseman in all of baseball, behind A-Rod, Beltre, Youkilis, A-Ram, Ryan Roberts, and Chase Headley. Your complaint is he doesn’t hit DINGERS, and I said that’s stupid. If you can’t handle someone thinking your opinion is stupid then, quite frankly, don’t talk to people. And don’t expect some immediate level of ‘due’ respect if you’re going to play the victim card the first time someone says “that’s dumb.” There’s nothing childish about saying an opinion is dumb, especially if the opinion involves ignoring meaningful indicators of contribution in favor of parading out ‘traditional’ numbers that conform to your PERSONAL view of production.
And, quite frankly, all of this misses the point. And the simple point, made from the start, is that CALLASPO does not deserve the shit he gets on this forum. He did not slot himself in as the starting third baseman. He didn’t even ask to be traded here. But he has come here, and he has produced as well as most any third baseman in the league in adding wins to his team’s record. If he doesn’t come right in and smash pitches over the fence, and that’s what YOU want, that’s not on him. That was never his game, but he’s found ways to produce anyway. Again, blame Reagins. And at least PRETEND to have some sort of spine so you can handle the word gasp dumb.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 21, 2011 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yawn...
Yeah, it takes real spine to be a keyboard warrior. Your toughness is overwhelming… You keep quoting the WAR all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that the guy hits nothing but singles. Seems to me WAR was invented for people who are too “dumb” to look into actual stats, so they have that one number they can repeat ad nauseam to try and seem intelligent.
As for the “dingers” if the guy had 60 rbi’s and 3 homeruns, I would be pleased as punch…but he don’t. If the guy had 25 doubles and a few triples, but he don’t. But thank you for telling me what I want…He’s a slap hitter on a team full of slap hitters. And he’s the worst of the slap hitters, and the easiest to replace. In my opinion.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jul 21, 2011 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Awesome
Callaspo has a phenomenal .369 OBP. He is good at not making outs — considering you only get 27 per game one would think a fan would be happy with this … especially considering how phenomenally weak 3B has been so far this year in the AL.
Would I like more power out of Callaspo? Absolutely. Yet he plays solid defense and gets on base at a prodigious clip — that’s not easy to replace.
Awesome, keep citing RBI’s as an effective method of gauging a hitter’s talent — you must have loved the Wells trade.
Jeff Mathis = sure fire 1st ballot Hall of Fame inductee
by YouthofToday on Jul 21, 2011 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
LyleMSpencer will settle this via Twitter
Yes, it would be nice if Mathis hit .270. It also would be nice if Callaspo hit 30 homers.
You can still fight over whose point that proves.
Hahaha
See, Lyle Spencer is on MY side! This argument is over and I am clearly the victor
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jul 22, 2011 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions
You keep playing this "tough guy" card with me
I called an opinion dumb, based on a lack of substantial information offered.
You then accused me of being childish and being a schoolyard brat.
I’m not being “tough” when I tell you to have a spine…I’m telling you to have some damn perspective. No one insulted you as a person. No one degraded you. I said an opinion was dumb. And it is. You can sit here and talk about RBIs until you’re blue in the face, but it just proves you’re completely ignoring every single thing I’ve said to this point.
And the fact that you said WAR is not an “actual” stat really just proves everything I’ve said to this point as true.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 21, 2011 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
RBIs
You’ll also have to excuse Callaspo for spending the plurality of his games this year batting directly behind a guy whose OBP is .310. Can’t exactly drive someone in if they’re not on base, now can ya champ?
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 21, 2011 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Champ?
You can’t even help yourself can you? You quote a perfectly relevant stat against my argument, a really good one in fact, and yet you still have to be a child about it. It’s pathetic. Like linkbruin said above, you are always in attack mode. You can’t have a debate because you are always in a fight. Sorry, but I find it childish that you can’t put your opinion against someone else’s without using words like stupid and dumb. As for the tough guy thing, let me ask you this. If someone in the real world told you to grow a spine, would them not be fighting words?
I’ve said my peace on the subject, I’ll put it to you. The team needs a power upgrade. We have 3 outfielders we can’t move. 2 more who are the future of the franchise. No moves to be made there far as I can see. So you look to the infield. Trumbo might be the rookie of the year. Howie is (was, anyway) batting over .300 and is an all star. Aybar is having a career year in terms of power and steals. Then there’s Callaspo. Who hits singles and not much else. At a position that is much easier to upgrade than 2nd or SS. So, where would you make the upgrade?
That is why Callaspo gets the shit he does, in my opinion.He does things well, don’t get me wrong. But he doesn’t necessarily do the things this team needs at the moment. I don’t really think he gets as much shit as you do. He is nowhere near the levels that Wells and Mathis get. I would say he gets a good deal less than Torii and Aybar even. I also wonder if some of his negativity doesn’t come from some bitterness left over from those that really wanted Beltre.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jul 22, 2011 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
You're losing an argument you should be winning
Callaspo is a useful bat – makes contact an obscene amount of the time and he has a decent eye. He is also a decent third baseman. Those are all fine skills and would make him a decent solution to a team’s third base hole if they had good hitters at every other position where you expect offense (think of the Phillies signing Polanco a few years ago). This is where CKoD has a fair point: Callaspo is what he is and we shouldn’t hate him because he isn’t Beltre.
The problem with Callaspo is that those are the only valuable things he brings to the table. He is an awful baserunner, has basically no extra base power and seems to have some bad brain cramps out there. THESE are the reasons we give him so much shit. It has nothing to do with RBI.
by dmhead on Jul 22, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought I said that
but fair enough. Minus the “brain cramps”. I wish I could take credit for that though.I mentioned his lack of speed and his lack of extra base hits, but everyone is focusing on the fact that I mentioned his RBI’s for some reason. If I made it the focal point of my argument it was not intentional.
"I too played shortstop for many years until I was struck down by Acne and Baby Fat" HST
by No Bologna Polonia on Jul 22, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not just that he "is what he is"
it’s that he has, by and large, surpassed the expectations most people had set forth for him before the season started. We all knew what we were gonna get out of him, and that his skill set would more or less be a replica of several other players (Aybar, Izturis, to a lesser extent Kendrick and Bourjous, etc.) So going in, all of us would be saying “shit, now we have a plethora of slap hitters again.” The thing is that, though that’s what he’s been, his production and win contribution is above and beyond expectation.
And to be fair, the team WAS structured to offer some power in various positions before the season…those pieces just have failed us. Hunter, Wells, and Morales could have provided enough pop (and, had Scioscia given him a real chance, Conger possibly, too), but they didn’t, which would have made Callaspo more than acceptable.
Nevermind that the entire central point of this argument from post #1 was simply it’s stupid to call Callaspo “worthless.” And it is. That’s not my opinion.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 22, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
You are right
but you need to be less aggressive and condescending man, if you disagree with someone then do it but you don’t have to tear into them.
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
Follow me on Twitter: @alexvanroekel
Well spoken
A voice of reason. I don’t expect Callaspo to continue at this rate yet he is more valuable to the 2011 Angels than Torii Hunter, as much as it pains me to say that.
Jeff Mathis = sure fire 1st ballot Hall of Fame inductee
by YouthofToday on Jul 21, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Not at all what I said
what I said is we give him shit for not being what we need despite the fact that what he does bring to the table is pretty good. Our problem is that we are such a weak team offensively. If Hunter and Wells could hit like true #3 and #4 then Callaspo wouldn’t be batching any flack.
I never implied anything about anybody being stupid…just that the fact that we don’t have the kind of bats we need at LF, RF, and DH makes Callaspo’s faults even more pronounced.
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
Follow me on Twitter: @alexvanroekel
catching* any flack
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
Follow me on Twitter: @alexvanroekel
And he doesn't run the bases well.
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
Sorry, dude. You get a "Mathis winning a batting title" vote from me
More pitching will not help the Angels win the AL West when the hitters on this team cannot produce with RISP.
by mustard_man on Jul 20, 2011 2:46 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Like I said, man.
Very little (if any) common sense involved here.
"Erstad says he's got it, Erstad...MAKES THE CATCH! The Anaheim Angels are the champions of baseball!" - Rory Markas, October 27, 2002
by Of Maicer and Men on Jul 20, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Reckling is having his elbow examined
He is not trade bait. With his command issues he certainly is not valuable trade bait.
I'd like to DFA Reagins
good one halowood
I take it you don't have the DOV Secret Decoder Ring
You need to drink more ovaltine
-Quad Fin Rider
Replace Moore with Bourjos or Trout
That would be the only way that trade would get Wright
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
Clever title...
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
Hopefully, we're smart enough to freeze all potential deals for a week.
"We are not on an austerity program," Arte Moreno
YES
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
si
My response to your letter of February 19, 1976, is - kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Bill Baxley, Attorney General
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jul 20, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
i wish we could sell Wells and Premium
any possibility?
o_O
What's the point?
We’d have to eat a lot of salary to get them off the roster, and neither would bring anything useful in return.
Plus, the only idiot irrational enough to take Wells in a trade, is sitting in our front office
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
More Howie please...
Can we trade Reagins?
So that we could trade VW?
Ahhh... Yes... Finally back home in SoCal!!!
by stuck in Romania on Jul 21, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
How about James Shields from Tampa?
I know we need offense, but he would be nice along side Weaver, Haren and Santana.
I don't think Reagins is allowed to speak with Tampa's GM anymore.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
by snowhor on Jul 20, 2011 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, now that Betemit's gone, I hear the Phillies are going hard for Melky.
As if we needed Melky to begin with, but hey, good to know we won’t crowd our outfield even more.
"Erstad says he's got it, Erstad...MAKES THE CATCH! The Anaheim Angels are the champions of baseball!" - Rory Markas, October 27, 2002
by Of Maicer and Men on Jul 20, 2011 4:00 PM PDT reply actions
They're also kicking tires on Beltran
Apparently, the Mets would trade Beltran within their own division, since [A] the Mets aren’t going anywhere this season, and [B] Beltran will be a free agent at the end of the season. If the package of prospects is right, the Mets will eat most of Beltran’s salary for the remainder of the season.
"The contract is brought up a lot. What it's going to take to get past it is winning. This organization took on the contract. I'm here to make them look good."~Vernon Wells
by George Kaplan on Jul 20, 2011 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be amazing.
Tony should swindle the Rockies into making this deal just like he swindled the Diamondbacks last year for Haren.
by moralesforpresident on Jul 21, 2011 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions
If the Angels can get Reyes, go for it!
Trade Howie, at the top of his worth, Aybar, also playing over his head, both are the worst situational players ever, for Reyes a run producer and scary bat, throw in any pitcher other than the big two. Howie and Aybar are going to start costing the Angels big money anyhow, might as well have a star for the money
Love Shields, but not willing to sacrifice Howie.
If Howie gets package into any deal, I’d cry.
"Erstad says he's got it, Erstad...MAKES THE CATCH! The Anaheim Angels are the champions of baseball!" - Rory Markas, October 27, 2002
by Of Maicer and Men on Jul 20, 2011 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes...
Because the Rays would want a player who will be a FA after 2012…
Jeff Mathis = sure fire 1st ballot Hall of Fame inductee
by YouthofToday on Jul 21, 2011 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
So Brandon Inge got DFA'd.
Something tells me TR is dumb enough to try and snatch him.
"Erstad says he's got it, Erstad...MAKES THE CATCH! The Anaheim Angels are the champions of baseball!" - Rory Markas, October 27, 2002
by Of Maicer and Men on Jul 21, 2011 12:22 AM PDT reply actions
What about Michael Cuddyer?
He can play nearly every position and doesnt cost that much. Hes also a huge upgrade with what we have at 3rd
Minor League Ball's 2010 Rookie of the Year Poster
If you didn't know by now, my screen name is sarcastic
i would trade howie for............
brandon wood. just wondering if anyone is going to read this today. actually a trade involving howie, and izzy for reyes would be pretty good.
by hoffy loves the angels on Jul 21, 2011 4:59 PM PDT reply actions
Yes...
No kidding, and utterly impossible. The Mets want players with less than a year service time.
Jeff Mathis = sure fire 1st ballot Hall of Fame inductee
by YouthofToday on Jul 21, 2011 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
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