Say NO to Derek Jeter Tribute in Anaheim (SECOND UPDATE)
by Commander_Nate on Aug 3, 2011 10:41 PM PDT
Email
PrintIn case you haven't heard, officials in the Angels front office are planning a ceremony to honor Derek Jeter shortly before he takes the field against the Angels in Anaheim for the umpteenth time. I, like many of you, find this unacceptable. I think it's time we fans make our voices heard and remind the front office which team they work for and which players tens of thousands of us go to the Big A to support on any given day.
Below the jump is the text of an e-mail I sent this morning which I plan to also send via snail mail...
I'm also posting the contact info for the front office so you can do the same. If you've got an e-mail, facebook, twitter, blog, cell phone, pager, carrier pigeon or any other form of communication, then use it to spread the word to your fellow Angels fans.
It's "Break Out The Red Week," so let's show them what that means. E-mail and letter I sent to the FO. Use as guidance for your own message or whatever you want to do.
The press has recently revealed that the Angels are planning an on-field celebration of Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter before the game between the two teams on September 9th. As a life-long Angels fan, I believe this celebration is an error in judgment on the part of team officials, and I must protest.
Holding this ceremony would be a slap in the face to both the Angels organization and its fans. It is even more insulting that it is going to take place during a season that celebrates the 50th anniversary of the Angels and the history they have built up over those years.
Derek Jeter has played no supporting role in building the Angels franchise. His only involvement has been as an opponent. His long career and recent ascendance into the 3,000 hit club have been impressive, but those accolades are his alone and they were earned entirely in a Yankee uniform. As such, the celebrations should be left to Jeter, the Yankees and the Hall of Fame a few years from now.
Jeter's career, while impressive, has not broken any MLB or Angels team records. He is nowhere near Pete Rose's hit record. He did not break the color barrier or surpass Hank Aaron's home run total. He is not the leader in any Angels statistical category like Tim Salmon, Garret Anderson and others are.
In light of all of this, it is difficult to see why the Angels are celebrating the active career of a life-long Yankee. Did the Yankees or any other team honor K-Rod when he broke the single season saves record? Was Vladimir Guerrero ever recognized on the road for his 400th HR? Will the Angels or another team do anything for Jim Thome when he reaches 600 HRs before this season is out? The answer to all of these questions is no.
Jeter has reached a personal milestone and he and the Yankees are right to celebrate them. However, the fact remains that they have nothing to do with the Angels. Holding a celebration for an active opponent moments before they are about to face him is disrespectful to current and former members of the Angels, as well as the fans that will be in attendance or watching on TV. This is our 50th anniversary year and we should stick to celebrating the players that have made their mark in Anaheim. Derek Jeter and the Yankees have nothing to do with this.
I respectfully request that the planned celebration on September 9th be reconsidered.
You can e-mail the Angels here.
Team mailing address and phone number:
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
2000 Gene Autry Way
Anaheim, CA 92806
888-796-HALO (4256)
To be clear, I have no real problem with Jeter as a person and I respect what he has done in his career. He has put up Hall of Fame numbers without using steroids or bringing any bad press to the game. The fact is that everything he's done was done as a Yankee and his 3,000th hit came in Yankee Stadium. Celebrations like this belong in Yankee Stadium, the Bronx and Cooperstown, not Angel Stadium of Anaheim. No other team is doing this and neither should the Angels.
UPDATE: Perhaps it was never real and Bill Dwyer got his stories crossed.
We appreciate your comments but more importantly your support and dedication to the Angels. There is no, nor has there ever been, a ceremony planned honoring Derek Jeter when the Yankees come to Anaheim. Thank you again for your continued support.
Ryan Cavinder
Media Relations Representative
Angels Baseball
(714) 940-2014
(714) 940-2205 – Fax
SECOND UPDATE: Per Quad Fin Rider's post down below, Tim Mead has personally confirmed there will be no ceremony of any kind for Derek Jeter at the Big A. Shout out to Tim Mead for putting this rumor to bed and to everyone here on HH who e-mailed, wrote or called to voice your concerns. That's teamwork!
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Comments
Good letter
Respectful, but to the point. I’m absolutely going to do the same; the last thing I want in Angel stadium is a ceremony celebrating a Yankees player that has hurt the Angels repeatedly over his career.
Mark Trumbo: 2011 Rookie of the Year
I’m a Ranger’s fan and I would agree with the Halos fans on this one. It’s one thing to give respect to a retired great who never played on your team (and only after an alotted amount of time, such as going into the HOF), but not while he’s there to compete against you.
And, let’s look at the MLB rule book for a moment…
3.09
Players in uniform shall not address or mingle with spectators, nor sit in the stands before, during, or after a game. No manager, coach or player shall address any spectator before or during a game. Players of opposing teams shall not fraternize at any time while in uniform.
Granted…players fraternize all the time with opposing players, but let’s at least pretend to honor the rules.
And, I’m as big of a Yankee hater as the next, but why embarrass the player like Jeter who will no undoubtedly receive a chorus of BOOS from Halo Nation (as he should)?
by ranger_nation on Aug 11, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Hell, I have a problem when we honor Ryan
and was one of our best
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
All about momentum at this point
Angels FO about to see one hell of a wave. A wave of NOs.
"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." ~ Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton
Angels' 2011 W-L record with the alternate red jersey: 14-9 (Home: 6-5 | Road: 7-5 || Day: 6-3 | Night: 7-7)
I sent it essentially verbatim, with a preface
Noting that the original letter was someone else’s, but that you had stated the case more eloquently and politely than I could.
I also suggested that whoever thought up this idea should be reprimanded.
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
Note that what I really wanted to write was:
“Are you f***ing INSANE?”
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
Also, had I thought more about it, I'd have said something to the effect of:
Why are we honoring an active player on another team, who has never worn an Angels jersey, while Tim Salmon has yet to have his number retired?
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
by red floyd on Aug 3, 2011 12:09 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
This^ times 1000
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
If Jeter ever used steroids
There’s no way baseball would ever let it become public. You can be sure of that. I’m no more “sure” about his lack of use than anyone else. Not saying he did…just that he’s not getting the stamp of approval of certainty, either.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 3, 2011 1:41 PM PDT reply actions
maybe after they are done honoring Jeter before the game
Jeter will come in and go 5-5 while hitting for the cycle. what better way to celebrate this great man than to have him kick our asses on our own field, right after we honor him?
this whole ordeal completely baffles my mind. color me baffled
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
I think we should honor him by having WTY throw over his head
Well, come see a fat old man some time!
Why over his head?
Just throw at it.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 3, 2011 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Just sent my angry (but respectful) letter. It was harder than I thought it would be to keep that letter free of profanity and rage. The idiot who came up with this idea needs to be fired. I was at Angel Stadium on the night Jeter hit #3000 and they played a video celebrating it between innings. That was awful enough. We don’t need to kowtow to the fucking Yankees.
Just waiting until September
Actually, I don't mind other teams playing something like that when something important happens to another team
It’s all baseball, informing people that someone just joined the 3000 hits club is pretty interesting. Don’t know if they did that for Thome [they should’ve if not and they did for Jeter], but when I went, they showed an update on the Women’s World Cup after the Brazil game, which was pretty cool.
Doing something like this is just a horrible idea though.
My brother and I were at that game as well
Stuff like that is fine because it is actively happening. Similarly, if Jeter was at 2,999 going into the September series against us, and he hit 3,000 during the game, then it would be fine to have some kind of short congratulatory message on the screen and for us fans to give a respectful round of applause.
In reality, the historic event happened almost a month ago in Yankee Stadium and had nothing to do with the Angels. There’s no reason for us to celebrate it or be reminded of it right before he comes to the plate against us.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Aug 3, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Thome hasn't gotten there yet.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 3, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope he is three away from 600
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
I wouldn't mind if he hit all three tonight
So long as they’re all solo home runs, and the Angels win 12-3. I actually really admire Jim Thome for very quietly being one of the best hitters ever, and I’m already mad at the BBWAA for not voting him into the HOF on the first ballot. Just watch, they’re all going to say Jim Thome must have been on steroids, but they’ll all line up for the first chance to fellate Derek Jeter when his time comes.
Now that I think of it, Thome hit his 500th against Dustin Moseley about four years ago. A walk-off homer, if I remember correctly. I wasn’t cool with that.
I agree, I've always respected Thome
And it would be an absolute crime if he didn’t get in the Hall of Fame 1st ballot
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
Sent a respectfully worded e-mail
but also added a less subtle blurb that will hopefully get their attention:
“Aside from this being a truly awful idea, it is not difficult to foresee in the aftermath of the Bryan Stow beating at Dodger Stadium that the emotions of fans of both teams are going to be tested like never before by such a potentially inflammatory event. Having Derek Jeter honored in any way in our stadium will result in plenty of Angels fans like myself booing very loudly and there will be more than just a few Yankees fans who will no doubt take extreme offense to seeing their hero treated like that. I think the safety of all fans should be the Angels organization’s primary concern and not the inappropriate honoring of a player who has been an adversary of our team his entire career."
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
Yeah, you never know
Sports fans in heated rivalries can do some pretty crazy stuff. At the very least, the FO has to know this ceremony is going to be drowned in “booooo!” like the NYY/BOS players endured before the All-Star Game.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Aug 3, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Great point!
I don’t like to be ruled by fear, and Anaheim is not Chavez Ravine, but it’s hard for me to imagine a more effective way to incite a riot in Angel Stadium than to honor an active adversary like this.
Well, upon reflection I can imagine something even more effective: honoring A.J. Piercheatski. I’m a peaceable man, but even I would come to that event with a blackjack and brass knuckles.
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
I wrote
too, using Commander Nate’s missive as a template. I made a couple of stylistic and grammatical changes to suit my personal taste, and added one or two thoughts of my own (including the fact that this will happen in the middle of a pennant race). I hope there is a groundswell of opposition to this, which forces the team to reconsider its plans.
The time to honor Jeter at the Big A, if ever, is when he plays his final game there. Given the fact that he’s under contract through 2013, that time is still a few years (and pennant races) away.
There will never be a time for it
he’s not one of ours, no one else is going to do it, and to suddenly make an exception for this one guy, who isn’t even top 10 of his generation, is bogus. Where was Griffey’s final farewell tour? Gwynn’s? Randy Johnson’s? Pedro Martinez’s? No road team gave these guys a thing…all are better than Jeter. Why does this massive tool of media overhype suddenly become the icon of baseball who should be worshipped in every house on his last go around? Let the Yankees take care of fellating the guy.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 3, 2011 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for getting this going
I’ve sent my letter too.
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
I launched like 50 f-bombs at them and misspelled every word.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
I sent them a bunch of links to HaloSpace and promised more if they went through with it.
Official prediction: The Angels will win the AL west this season.
Excellent idea.
I’ll toothpick tim mead’s eyelids and make him stare at this until he goes mad
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
i think its a pretty sophisticated optical illusion.
i see a disfigured charlie brown silhouette if you focus on the negative space.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
It also kinda looks like a guy wearing a baseball hat looking away and downwards.
Official prediction: The Angels will win the AL west this season.
by RexTookMyStash on Aug 3, 2011 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't that the crab nebula in the background
Also, that moon looks like a laughing banana.
Official prediction: The Angels will win the AL west this season.
by RexTookMyStash on Aug 3, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I just sent an email as well.
Power to the People!
I belong in the majors, but I'm not. I'm Hank Conger.
I sent an e-mail and got a response.
I copied and pasted below. I hope it’s true.
Jason,
We appreciate your comments but more importantly your support and dedication to the Angels. There is no, nor has there ever been, a ceremony planned honoring Derek Jeter when the Yankees come to Anaheim. Thank you again for your continued support.
Ryan Cavinder
Media Relations Representative
Angels Baseball
(714) 940-2014
(714) 940-2205 – Fax
by jco on Aug 3, 2011 6:25 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
That is good news... I was gonna have to kill myself if it did happen.
Looks like I get to live.
Rec’d
From Bill Dwyer at the LA Times...
“We are still finalizing some things,” says Tim Mead, Angels vice president of communications. “It is fair to say we want to honor the man, the player and the person in some form.”
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
From HH article earlier
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
I got about 30 words into that article
before I contemplated beating Bill Dwyre to death in front of his family on Christmas morning.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 3, 2011 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, I feel so dumb
I actually thought the guy who wrote this article was Bill Dwyer the comedian. As a result, I could excuse the terrible article.
Shows how much I read the LA Times.
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
I confused the name at first
but then saw the picture and just got angry.
A wise man once said "never postpone to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow. Except DFAing Mathis. Do that shit now, plz."
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 3, 2011 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I received precisely the same reply
right down to the typo.
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
Hmm, I got the same thing
I thanked him for his response and also sent him the link to the LA Times article that caused our outrage. Hopefully, that’s the end of it and the only Jeter-related celebrations that weekend will be when Bourjos beats out routine grounders to him for hits.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Aug 3, 2011 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
What can you buy with panther dollars
Official prediction: The Angels will win the AL west this season.
by RexTookMyStash on Aug 3, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
You can trade in 1 million panther dollars
for 1 PPG point. (May take ~ 1 year to process!)
どうだこのやろう！
what is the exchange rate if I wnated to swap them for Schrute bucks?
Stanley nickels?
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Aug 4, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
are there bits of real panther in them?
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Aug 3, 2011 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't believe this.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
I got the same letter in response.
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
His use of the weasel word "ceremony" is not very reassuring
As the showing of a Jeter career highlight reel at the Big A would not constitute a formal "ceremony"
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Aug 4, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I got a different response today:
Colin:
Appreciate your interesting and pointed comments. If you would be good enough to pass along a contact phone number, I will most certainly call you and discuss the entire story rather than the simple context you portrayed below. I have had thousands of discussions with loyal fans throughout my career here, many of those with differing opinions regarding a club decision, position, etc. The one thing I can assure you is that "pandering" is not part who I am or what I do. That said, please send along your number and I will be more than happy to discuss.
Respectfully,
Tim Mead
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Aug 4, 2011 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You lucked out and got to Tim Mead
He almost always responds personally. That guy is 100% pure class.
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
Tim is awesome and I was left with no doubts that he's with the Angels not just because it's his job, but also because he's a hardcore Halos fan
He very patently and candidly answered all of my questions on a whole variety of different subjects and if I hadn’t had a client waiting for me in the lobby at the time, I know he would have talked to me even longer.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Aug 4, 2011 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
And what did he say about the alleged abomination?
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
I've gotten some very nice e-mails from him
but I’ve never been fortunate enough to talk to him. It’s just as well, because I’d probably make a nuisance out of myself yakking on for hours about the Angels.
Your letter must really have been something!
I first became aware of him a long time ago, when (IIRC) he was in charge of promotions. He used to come on the pregame show a lot, and even back then it was obvious that he was a first-class human being. I’ve got to believe that he is the reason that Arte’s tenure has seemed to be a continuation (in all the good ways) of the Cowboy’s.
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
This makes me proud to be an Angels fan
It’s another sign of the class of the organization that somebody as high ranking as Tim Mead will personally respond to the concerns of the fanbase. We might not always agree with some of the decisions made, but at the end of the day Arte and co. represent our team and our area very well. I’m proud to look at that self-made military veteran and say “he owns my favorite team.”
So no jeter worship?
"Every time I think I’m out, they pull me back in" -George Costanza
by Howie's Batting Title on Aug 4, 2011 4:06 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
My phone conversation with Tim Mead, Angels Vice President of Communications
We had a really long & informative conversation on a variety of subjects that I don’t have time to fully recount at this moment, but here is the gist of what he said about the whole "Derek Jeter Day" controversy:
Tim said there had been a discussion within the Angels organization last month about what sort of acknowledgement if any they should give regarding Derek Jeter’s 3,000th career hit when the Yankees visit the Big A in September.
Bill Dwyre called him a couple of days later while Dwyre was writing his Jeter column and Mead related to him that there had been some discussion at meetings about what to do, but that nothing had been decided as of yet. What he didn’t tell Dwyre was that the fullest extent of the organization’s acknowledgement of Jeter’s feat was going to be nothing more than just a brief congratulatory line for reaching a historic milestone that would momentarily appear on the scoreboard when Jeter makes his first appearance. That’s it. The only thing under discussion was how to word it.
Mead also said the L.A. Times headline printed above Dwyre’s column ("Derek Jeter Is A Player To Be Celebrated") which made it sound as if the Angels organization were planning a special celebration for Jeter was highly misleading and was not even written by Dwyre, but rather by a low level Times staffer.
Mead categorically stated for the record that September 9th is not going to be Derek Jeter Day, there will be no pre-game ceremony of any sort, nobody is going to present Jeter with a crystal trophy, nor is there going to be a Jeter career highlight reel shown at the Big A. Tim said all that was wildly inferred by inserting his out-of-context comment into Dwyre’s Jeter slobbering puff piece, whose title made it sound as if the Angels front office was planning some sort of special event.
Tip of the cap to Commander Nate & fellow HH e-mailers: Tim also said that this was the second biggest e-mail shit storm regarding a public relations issue to ever hit the organization’s in-boxes in Angels history, only the Anaheim name change was bigger.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Aug 4, 2011 7:27 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
thanks for relaying all of that
please tell me you brought up Wells or Mathis somewhere in your conversation.
"You realize that Ive been posting on AN since 07 on this name and I am one of the most rec'ed posters there right?" - Some douche named DFA from AN
by 2pintsofbooze on Aug 4, 2011 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
You know I wanted to go there, but I knew he would never answer that
…but I did ask him the question posed above by red floyd about retiring Salmon’s number. Tim said Kingfish is one of his closest friends and he would personally love to see his buddy’s number retired, but also acknowledged that it’s probably not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Mead said the general feeling around the organization is that you can’t retire a player’s number just because that person happens to be popular with the current generation of fans. The front office is well aware that Salmon would win any Angel fan popularity contest, but the issue was did Kingfish post career stats that would withstand the test of time, a necessary criterion that must be considered before permanently retiring a number. He stated that the consensus was that since Garret Anderson put up greater career stats than Salmon, it would be a disservice to GA if Salmon’s number was retired and not his. He said there had been talk about possibly retiring both players’ numbers jointly, but it was felt that if they were going to mix career numbers & fan popularity as the qualifying criteria, then Percy & Erstad would have equally valid arguments for having their numbers retired too.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Aug 4, 2011 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I agree
Tim Salmon and Garret Anderson were the joint face of the Angels for a decade. Hang ’em both up at the same time. Make Conger pick another pair of digits.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Aug 5, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
retire every jersey # worn in 2002
except Lackey’s
I belong in the majors, but I'm not. I'm Hank Conger.
So it seems that GA, Salmon, Percy and Erstad will all enter the Angels Hall of Fame
But no numbers retired. Though I believe if Carew and Fergosi’s numbers are retired then #15 should be as well
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
I think 15, 16, and 31 should be retired for Salmon, Anderson, and Finley
Then Erstad, Percy, and Vlad joining them in the Angels HoF
Carew was elected to the Hall of Fame
Which makes that a slam dunk case. As for Fregosi, all I can say is that his number was retired under a different ownership group, and the current one doesn’t consider that a precedent.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Percival Yes, Erstad No
Erstad’s career achievements don’t hold a candle to those of the other three, as great a defensive player as he was. I think it would be fine to retire the uniform #s of a guy who’s #8 all-time in saves (lame stat, yeah, but bear with me), a guy with 299 HR (132nd all time), and the guy who’s 89th on the all-time hit list. They’re the best this organization has ever had to offer, and they deserve the honor of having their jerseys retired.
IMHO.
by jjackflash on Aug 5, 2011 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those "all time" stats
Don’t at all capture what each of them meant to our franchise.
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
Understood
My point was that they weren’t just stars for this franchise, but that they stack up rather well among all of have played the game. Add to that how important each of those guys was to this franchise, and they’re certainly deserving of recognition by having their numbers retired. Erstad is the only one whose statistical achievements are much more pedestrian, relative to his importance to the team.
Go look at Erstad's WAR
The guy was a monster defensively and his WAR reflects that.
His WAR is almost identical to Anderson’s and he did it less time.
That's tough
I love both Salmon and GA, but Tim has a point. Yes, those guys were the face of the Angels, but I think you have to look at their league-wide impact. Neither will be elected to the Hall of Fame, and without that, I think it’s really iffy as to number retirement.
If it were up to me, I would retire both of those, but not Finley or Percival or Erstad. Both GA and Salmon meant a lot to this organization for a long time, and they put up some great numbers. But I understand the perspective.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I do kinda see Tim's point on the GA/Salmon # retirements
And in addition to that if Salmon gets his number retired then Grich, Finley and Downing have just as strong a case.
"Its like when i’m right…i’m right… and when i’m wrong…i could have been right..so i’m still right cause i could have been wrong"-Chevy Clarke's Twitter
All those numbers should be retired, anyway.
I get the urge to turn the TV off every time I see the #5 with Mathis’ name above it.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
Reading Tim Mead's comment that the organization's consensus is that GA put up better career stats than Salmon and knowing that GA's career OPS+ is 102 while Salmon's is 128, tells me that if they could do it all over again tomorrow...
They’d still trade Mike Napoli for Vernon Wells.
The offensive performance of this team in 2012 and beyond will be no different than the past couple of years. 2008 & 2009 were aberrations.
Pollyanna is dead. But don't get mad at me, I didn't kill her. Tony Reagins did.
In this case, better = more
GA owns the counting stats. I think that’s what Mead is referring to. And to be honest, when looking at “Angel Greats,” those counting stats play a huge role. I’d rather retire the number of a guy who leads the team is most major counting stats than one who played fewer season but greater success (ie, I’d go for GA over Vlad). I also believe Salmon should get in if GA does. And when you let them both in, it opens the floodgates for the players listed above.
TL:DR- Mead isn’t wrong here. He’s not saying GA was better than Salmon.
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
by BruinHalo on Aug 5, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks as well
How did you wind up with Tim Mead responding to your message, instead of the response several others (including myself) received? Did he just pick yours?
I think I hit a raw nerve with Tim when I accused him personally in my initial e-mail of "pandering" to the Yankee scum at the Big A with what I thought would be a Jeter "tribute"
Tim said he didn’t necessarily share my hatred of Yankees fans, but fully understood the reasons why I don’t like those assholes in our stadium. He said that while the overall number of Yankee fans has dropped over the years, but they will continue to show up at the Big A in significant numbers as long as Angels season ticket holders continue to sell their seats to them and just because there are so damn many transplanted New Yorkers (like my own parents) living here in So Cal. One of the funniest moments in our conversation came when he said that the only group of fans he found to be truly obnoxious, distasteful & disingenuous at Angels games are the wannabe bandwagoners of the Boston Red Sox. He said the type of Red Sox fan that usually come to the Big A are not former Bostonians, but just slavish devotees of a passing fad.
There was a lot more stuff said in our conversation & if I’ve got time over the weekend and feel so inclined, I’ll post a complete FanShot.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
by Quad Fin Rider on Aug 5, 2011 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Colin, you're my hero
A tip of the Angel halo to you!
You boys stick around--there'll be turkey and ice cream later!
please do... I love hearing stuff like this.
Ahhh... Yes... Finally back home in SoCal!!!
by stuck in Romania on Aug 5, 2011 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Biggest tip of the cap to you, QFR, for delivering the final answer to us
And well done to everyone else here on HH. It’s amazing what you can accomplish when your boss isn’t looking, eh?
Also, it’s very cool of Tim Mead to take the time to address this issue personally. As a fan, it’s good to know that he genuinely cares about what we all think.
And finally, I think we just found a way to influence future roster decisions. We must use this wisely…
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Aug 5, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Well Done QFR!
Glad to hear it was something blown out of proportion and not a soon-to-be-realized-reality.
"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." ~ Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton
Angels' 2011 W-L record with the alternate red jersey: 14-9 (Home: 6-5 | Road: 7-5 || Day: 6-3 | Night: 7-7)
No celebrations for Evil Empire Army members in our house.
No giving aid and comfort to the Enemy. (and yes, I did capitalize the “e” in enemy purposely.
"Grantland Rice, the great sportswriter, once said 'It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.'
Well, Grantland Rice can go to hell as far as I am concerned." - Gene Autry
soooo, derek jeter isn't going to be raised above the rock-pile via hydraulic lift?
NOT VERY CLASSY, ANGELS
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Not to mention the lack of Jeter groupies in the crowd...
would’ve been lots of “easy pickins” for us not as physically gifted as Mr Jeter.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Aug 6, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Crap i should have read the whole update :(
i emailed them today a crap load :) haha oops well they really won’t do it now! thats right fools!
Don't Blame ME! Tony Reagins Did it!
by IWishWeStillHadTimSalmon on Aug 6, 2011 10:51 PM PDT reply actions
Hell no
I just sent my e mail voiceing my what I thought of that ridiculous idea
by Fastpitch77 on Aug 18, 2011 11:53 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
What a powder puff line-up the Angels have
Angels will never win a thing with Mathis as their catcher
by Fastpitch77 on Aug 19, 2011 12:15 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
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