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According to Fangraphs' new Minor League Leaderboard feature, Kole Calhoun "created" more offensive runs ("RC") than all but ten farm hands MLB wide. Matt Long ranks 17th.

I knew Calhoun and Long had great seasons, but I would not have guessed that their production ranked that highly across the minor leagues. Cool beans.

5 months ago Avatar_tiny rghan 11 comments 1 recs  | 

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also ranks thirteenth in all of high A ball

in BB/K ratio which correlates to a successful major league wRC+ better than any minor league statistic.

go long with extenze...i do

by angelsownredsux on Jan 6, 2012 11:24 AM PST reply actions  

ETAs?

Hey rghan – This might be listed in your 2011 reviews of each player but frankly I’m lazy…

Do you have a projected ETA for either Kalhoun or Long?

by BigGame48 on Jan 6, 2012 11:27 AM PST reply actions  

while we're asking about Kalhoun...

I know most don’t believe he can play CF, but do you think he can stick?

go long with extenze...i do

by angelsownredsux on Jan 6, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

*Calhoun

go long with extenze...i do

by angelsownredsux on Jan 6, 2012 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Would we need him to though?

We do have Trout and Bourjos, both quality CF’ers.

by TheQuestforMerlin on Jan 6, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Never read a scouting report that suggested he had that kind of range or athleticism

I heard from one industry source that he was below average, even in a corner.

Nice to know he could play center in a pinch, but I don’t think anyone expects him to see much time out there going forward.

by rghan on Jan 6, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Next year will be a big test for both Calhoun and Long

A full season in AA will help to clarify what their true skill level is. Given the depth building up in AAA, I doubt that either of them spends a meaningful amount of time even in Salt Lake in 2012.

I wouldn’t expect to see either of them in the big leagues before a gratuitous September call-up in 2013. One or both may see some time as a backup in 2014. Where they go from there depends on performance and organizational need.

by rghan on Jan 6, 2012 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

September 2013 seems awfully late...

…given the Hunter and Abreu contracts end this season. It seems like the organization would have a pretty good read on Calhoun and Long by mid-season 2012.

I just look at guys like this and recall that Mike Napoli never rated higher than a C+ on any John Sickels list, Brandon Wood was a perennial A, and Jered Weaver topped out at B+ and never cracked Baseball America’s top 50.

I’m not saying Calhoun and Long are elite prospects — they’re likely roleplayers — though Calhoun does read more like Napoli to me than other players that have passed through the system.

I am saying, however that I think that prospect ranking is very broken, and I’d like to see a shift from fantasized player ceilings to likelihood of contribution at the MLB level.

I’m much more optimistic that Calhoun or Long will reach the MLB in some capacity than I am Cowart, Grichuk, Witherspoon, etc.

by Turks Teeth on Jan 6, 2012 8:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you're making two very valid points

Valuing ceiling over likely outcome is a little out of control these days, largely because amateurs (like myself) have dabbled with scouting concepts and made efforts to project athletes based on their “tools.” For example, these dudes hyped Clarke and Bolden over Jimenez and Calhoun, and even Long. Given the overwhelming probability that the prep guys burn out before making it to AA, it’s ridiculous.

However, I seem to remember you making the point in regards to Amarista that it is relatively easy to secure the fairly dependable 1.0-2.5 WAR player on the open market. It’s much harder, and much riskier, to secure that 4-8 WAR player, and even then that guy is likely to decline after the cost-controlled years. So, as I think you’d agree, Matt Long’s more probable ~1-2 WAR production at the major league level doesn’t have the same value as, say, the 20% likelihood that Kaleb Cowart puts up a 5 WAR season in a Halos uniform five to six years from now.

Furthermore, if you take the probable production vs ceiling argument too far, you end up as the A’s, who’s Sacramento AAA affiliate sees a lot more success than the major league club (the Rivercats have won their division every year going back to 2007. Coincidence?). Finding the right balance between probable mediocrity and possible stardom means tolerating AA flameouts.

But you know that, and your broader point is more interesting: why do the publications keep missing on so many of the guys who turned out to be our core players this past decade — they undervalued Weaver, Lackey, Figgins, Napoli, Shields, Saunders, Maicer, and now probably Bourjos and maybe Trumbo — while hyping Kotch, Mathis, Wood, and Ramon Ortiz? To their credit, Baseball America got it mostly right with Salmon, Santana, Morales, K-Rod, Glaus, Washburn, Percival, Aybar, Kennedy, and Kendrick (sort of). Total that up, and you get a ~50% success rate, which seems pretty awful.

The pattern with position prospects seems to be that they either (1) undervalued guys with one, top of the scale tool going for them — Figgins’ and Bourjos’ speed, Napoli and Trumbo’s pop — and underestimated how that tool would augment their fringy to average-ish hitting skills in the majors; or (2) assumed that 20 year olds who hit like crazy — and Wood, Mathis, and Kotch were unbelievably good in their age 20 seasons — would always hit like crazy. You have grounds for rethinking position prospect evaluation right there, albeit in a small sample size.

I don’t know what that means for using K/BB ratios to predict MLB performance, since there’s a lot of contradictory info there. Early on, Mathis and Kotch were very good at managing the zone. Both saw their walks erode. Wood was never great, but he wasn’t awful either. On the other hand, Napoli walked a ton but k’d a ton too. Figgins was always pretty good about maintaining those ratios.

Pitchers seem tougher: Weaver, Lackey, Saunders and Shields all saw their secondary pitches and command improve to the point where raw FB velocity didn’t end up limiting them. It seems to me that there are a lot of guys who could potentially make that leap, but I don’t have any idea how you’d screen for that one special arm at age 17-20. The Angels, to their credit, did a better job with that than the publications and much of the rest of the industry.

by rghan on Jan 7, 2012 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

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