Darvish Looking To Break Rangers Piggy Bank
Darvish was in Texas this last week to 'negotiate'. He already went home after demanding 5 yrs/100 million. With the transfer fee, that would put him over 30 million a season. The Rangers could have any pitcher in the world for that money - why take an unproven one?
5 months ago
alcor805
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That unproven pitcher has filthy stuff.
It’s hard to find any criticism of his game. He’s unproven, sure, but he has the potential to be among the best pitchers in baseball. Alot of scouts already consider him one of the top pitchers in the world.
by moralesforpresident on Jan 8, 2012 1:42 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Kazmir had potential too..
Until he actually pitches in the MLB hes still just a prospect to me, and being a top, highly rated, highly regarded prospect still means nothing. All that means is his chances of being a flop are considerably less then a low prospect.
He could be great, but unproven is still unproven until he actually pitches here.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Jan 8, 2012 2:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's hardly a comp.
Kazmir was on a small decline when we got him, coming off an injury. If you recall, Kazmir was much more “proven” than Darvish. He’d shown he could be successful in the big leagues.
by moralesforpresident on Jan 8, 2012 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
no
I mean as a prospect. Kazmir was a top, highly rated prospect, thats the rating Darvish gets from me. Hes a japanese prospect.
by C.A._Rep_Los_ANGELS on Jan 8, 2012 3:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah but,
100 Million is a lot to gamble. Why not spend that on a Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay or Jered Weaver?
Any contract is a gamble.
With a guy as talented as Darvish, there’s always going to be at least one team that’s willing to give out crazy money to get him.
by moralesforpresident on Jan 8, 2012 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
It's not a matter of whether or not he is GOOD
It’s the virtue of paying Cy-Young money to a guy who’s never even pitched with the MLB sized baseball before that is funny.
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 9, 2012 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Check out what Cafardo wrote about a week ago.
Watch the Yu Darvish negotiations with Texas. It’s not a slam dunk. The Rangers can get their $50 million posting fee back if they don’t sign him by Jan. 18. Darvish can become a free agent after next year, with no posting fee.
If it’s true, it’s interesting that this is the first I’ve heard that he could be a free agent next year.If that’s the case, Darvish could get significantly more next year.
Reasons why he should wait till next year to come to the MLB:
1) It screws the Rangers.
2) There will be no posting fee to weigh down his own salary.
If he had no posting fee, he might be able to make upwards of $80M on his next contract. Instead, he doesn’t touch any of the $51.7M bid and it limits how much he will earn. He stands to earn more money by waiting till next year.
3) He can become a free agent, and get multiple teams involved in a bidding war instead of only being able to negotiate with one club right now.
4) Other large market teams may have more payroll flexibility next year.
Powerhouses like the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies and even the Dodgers don’t have money to spend this year, but they might next year. The Red Sox will have over $33M coming off the books next year just counting Youkilis, Dice-K, Scutaro and Jenks. The Dodgers don’t have a ton of money coming off the books, but you can be sure the new owner will want to put a stamp on his new tenure.
5) He can choose where he wants to play.
He seems like the kind of player who would thrive in a large market. Right now, he has no say in where he plays. He’s simply going to the highest bidder. Next year he would be able to choose which team he likes, and which parks would suit him well, since Texas doesn’t suit any pitcher well.
After hearing this news from Cafardo, the only reason Davish would sign this offseason would be if he desperately wanted to play in the big leagues next year and couldn’t stand to wait another year. Otherwise, every other factor points to waiting another year.
by moralesforpresident on Jan 8, 2012 2:24 PM PST reply actions
Free agent for 2014 season
Commander Nate is our resident expert of all things NPB, but as I understand it…
Darvish is a free agent within NPB in 2013. He can sign with any NPB team that year, which means a bidding war in Japan for his services.
He is an unrestricted free agent in 2014, and it is then he can sign with any MLB team of his choice. His stated preference when the posting was first announced was to play for a Pacific Coast team. Assuming his talent doesn’t diminish over the next two years, imagine the bidding war among the Mariners (this is Ichiro’s last season, and Darvish would bring more of that interest from Japan the team has enjoyed for the last decade), the Giants, the Angels and the Dodgers (which will have new and presumably monied ownership by then).
If he turns down the Rangers, he can sign a new one-year deal with Nippon Ham for about $8M to $9M (while earning a like amount in endorsements), sign as a free agent within NPB for much more than that for 2013, then negotiate with all 30 MLB teams in 2014.
I would prefer that he sign with the Rangers, which would prohibit their ability to sign Fielder as well; signing Fielder makes much more sense for the dollars involved. But there is really very little incentive for him to sign with Texas in the next two weeks unless they go apeshit crazy with contract terms.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" ~Groucho Marx
by George Kaplan on Jan 8, 2012 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope he signs with them for a ton of money too
I would be much more concerned about a texas team with fielder than with darvish.
Althugh, if texas did sign fielder, I would assume it would just mean less playing time for napoli- since the rangers dont seem interested in having him catch every day.
by Balls and Strikes on Jan 8, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
Makes sense.
I figured if it was true, we’d be hearing plenty about it.
by moralesforpresident on Jan 8, 2012 5:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Nate will know if I'm wrong
but Cafardo has made a good career out of being wrong.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" ~Groucho Marx
by George Kaplan on Jan 8, 2012 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
You are right. Full FA in 2 years.
How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
by jimmuscomp on Jan 8, 2012 7:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Looks like he's still doing well in that regard
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Jan 8, 2012 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
I've though this from the beginning
Darvish was pushed into this by his team. I predict he won’t sign this season and then will be a Dodger or M next season. I don’t think we will chase an overpriced rookie regardless of pedigree.
"How much more could you possibly need? I never played this game for money purposes, I played it for love and for championships."
---Jered Weaver.
I cant imagine the signing of Fielder?
I know they have been in the market and everything, but I feel that given Nolan Ryans quick decision that wilson wasn’t worth it, he wouldnt allow boras to dink him around like this and the rangers are just pretending to be in contention while they try to work out a deal with Darvish. Ryan doesn’t seem lkike a guy who would play Boras’s games for as long as he has so I don’t think he is really playing them.
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 8, 2012 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Adrian Beltre sends his regards
Seriously, this demonizing of Boras is completely out of step with how he’s regarded by the ownership and GMs in general. Besides’ Ryan’s analysis of Wilson was derived over two seasons of observation; it was hardly a snap decision.
If the Rangers fail with Darvish and decide that the money earmarked for Darvish (posting fee plus initial years of salary) would strengthen the team if redeployed to sign Fiedler, then they’ll do it. The larger question is, would the Rangers create a whole new net of problems if they overload the 1B/DH slots with Fielder, Young and Napoli? Also, expect Fielder to sign a deal with an out clause after the 3rd season (a la Dodgers/Drew and Yankees/A Rod), which means the Rangers wouldn’t be committing to a long-term deal unless Fielder was a huge bust.
Fielder to the Rangers scares me a whole hell of a lot more than does a signing of Darvish.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" ~Groucho Marx
by George Kaplan on Jan 8, 2012 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking the same thing.
That exact situation happened last offseason. After missing out on Cliff Lee, they reallocated that money into Adrian Beltre. They didn’t need Beltre, just like they don’t need Fielder, but they had to counter with something. Try telling your fanbase your doing your best to be competitive when you miss out on Darvish and your biggest move was signing an injury-riddled Joe Nathan, all while your division rival steals your ace and signs the best hitter of our generation. If they miss out on Darvish, they will do something. I hope it’s not Fielder.
by moralesforpresident on Jan 8, 2012 7:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree Prince on the rangers scares me more too
but I don’t see Ryan playing the waiting game with free agents. I might be wrong but I kinda thought that with Cliff Lee it was almost established he would leave after the team gave him an initial low ball offer. At that point they signed Beltre whose only other major suiter was the angels and Reagins ineptitude. This Darvish/Fielder move has a different feel to it in that the Rangers seem willing to go all in with Darvish in a way they wouldn’t with Lee (winning the bidding war), and there are more teams looking at Fielder.
Now this might be my memory playing games with me and feel free to correct me if it is, but I don’t think the rangers are serious about Fielder
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 8, 2012 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
The Rangers aren't interested in Fielder like the Angels aren't interested in Madson.
If the price is right, they’re in.
Winning doesn't matter. -Lyle
I think Boras is serious about the Rangers
I think the reason Fielder is unsigned is that Boras has been waiting for the Darvish situation to resolve itself.
If the Rangers don’t sign Darvish and are in the hunt for Fielder, then the price for Prince just went up. The Rangers figure to be looking to redirect some of that set aside money on another impact player. I think the Rangers know that Prince Fielder would be an upgrade over a platoon of Moreland/Young/Napoli.
If the Rangers sign Darvish (and are, presumably, tapped out for the season to come), then Prince probably signs with the Nationals the next day.
I wonder if a monster deal for Fielder screws up their ability to sign Hamilton, Kinsler and Cruz to extensions by setting a new in-house price for top dollar, in the way that Pujols’ contract re-set the bar for the Angels from Torii’s deal 4 years ago. The agents for those three would say, “Well if Fielder is worth $x, then my guy is certainly worth $y,” where x and y are both numbers in the stratosphere.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" ~Groucho Marx
by George Kaplan on Jan 9, 2012 4:07 AM PST up reply actions
This sounds logical
However, if the Twitter rumor given down on the thread is true that a team offered Fielder an 8 year deal yesterday (which would be a team outside of the Rangers), does Boras not just take the money and 8 year deal knowing full well how badly he messed up the Madsen when he tried to play the waiting game?
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 9, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
The "mystery team" could be fictional
Boras has a reputation for having imaginary suitors for his clients who turn out to be non-existent. I think this was part of the problem with the A-Rod negotiations with the Yankees. Boras is perhaps the best at his game, but he has overplayed his hand in the past.
The Nationals are widely believed to be all-in on Fielder to provide a power bat to supplement the offense and support the nucleus of young pitching. Likewise, they’ve been looking to add Oswalt for a 1 or 2 year deal.
But simply saying “an 8 year deal” doesn’t drill down to the details, and there may be a feature—for Pujols, it was the no-trade clause; for Fielder, it might be an out clause after the 3rd year—which might be absent and thus not a deal which meets the clients’ expectations. It’s all rumors, anyway.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" ~Groucho Marx
by George Kaplan on Jan 9, 2012 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Good point about the details
Washington seems like a team that would be warry of a no trade clause or an out clause. I still do think that Boras and Fielder would rather get a deal as soon as possible if the price is right regardless of what happens with Texas and Darvish. This could be my fanhood getting in the way of logic but I think that what happened with Madsen, all the money he left on the table with Philadelphia and the complete lack of suitors left now that we are only 40 days from pitchers and catchers reporting, might knock Boras’ confidence down a bit
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 9, 2012 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
There's precedent with the Nationals
Jayson Werth
7 years/$126M (2011-17)
° signed by Washington as a free agent 12/6/10
° $4M signing bonus (paid January 2011-2012)
° 11:$10M, 12:$13M, 13:$16M, 14:$20M, 15:$21M, 16:$21M, 17:$21M
° full no-trade clause
Now look at the sunk cost of Werth’s contract. Bat him in front of Fielder and he sees better pitches, since no one is going to pitch around Werth to get to Fielder with a runner on base. Put Zimmerman behind Fielder and see if Ryan doesn’t respond with a revival of 2009-style power.
SPECIAL BONUS: Fielder would give the Nationals a big 1B bat (Pujols) to take the heat off the promising OF prospect Harper (Trout) to be wonder boy right away.
SON OF SPECIAL BONUS: The Nationals could then trade Mike Morse for someone else of value, since Morse is possibly at the peak of his club-friendly value (under team control through 2013, with 2011 stats of 31 HR and a slash line of .303/.360/.550).
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" ~Groucho Marx
by George Kaplan on Jan 9, 2012 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Huh, I didn't know that Werth had a no-trade clause
regardless though it is possible that Werth’s performance last year would make the club worried about a full no-trade clause. I still maintain that Fielder and Boras aren’t waiting for the Rangers/Darvish situation to resolve itself before signing a contract, I think they are just waiting for Washington to make an offer that they can appreciate
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 9, 2012 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
losers
Texas is for bitches
The neighbor is a cranky irish expat. He if wanted no snakes, he shoulda stayed in Ireland.
-Moondoggy
by DAD OF VLAD on Jan 8, 2012 3:00 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Darvish has serious disdain for the posting system according to some sources
So do a lot of Japanese players. This may, in part, be his way of protesting.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
falling on his katana might be a little more productive.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Gotta be careful with those tricky bastards
been playing a lot of COD: World at War lately, and those slick Japanese soldiers love pullin’ pins on their grenades right as you walk past their dying bodies.
This is a sig.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 8, 2012 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
..
I don’t wanna go to school tomorrow!
Your Angels: Telling Pythagoras to go to hell since 2004.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 8, 2012 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
Damn harbor bombers!
This is a sig.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 8, 2012 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i swear to god whenever I see this....
I always think its my buddy from high school….
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 8, 2012 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure it is!
oooo now that is waisis!
Your Angels: Telling Pythagoras to go to hell since 2004.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 8, 2012 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
We heard the same stuff regarding Dice-K
Darvish will sign. It will not be for $100 million. He is doing his best to exert what leverage he has in what really is an unfair system from the player’s perspective. I still expect he will sign somewhere much closer to $50 million than $100 million. Even so, it will be a hell of a lot of money for Texas to pay when the posting fee is factored in.
Ok.. I THOUGHT
Darvish asked to be posted because the posting fee goes to his club, and they need cash.. I figure that Darvish is gonna hold out as long as he can to get as much out of Texas as he can and then he’s gonna sign..
free agent 2013 or 2014?
2011, it's going to be a heck of year, or not
For the 2014 season. 2 more Japanese Baseball seasons.
How does this team win with this offense? Hey, anyone....DRAW A WALK!!!
Jim Scully
Jim Scully Home
by jimmuscomp on Jan 8, 2012 7:32 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
seems silly
but why not? If you are so early on in negotiating a deal just throw out a number like that…
What you said, alcor805, in the body of your fanshot is not at all true.
Darvish was in Arlington just for a visit to see the baseball stadium and a meet and greet with Rangers brass for the first time. There was no negotiations on contract to take place during the week from the many articles I’ve read at LSB and I have been following this pretty closely. His expectations at this point are speculation and rumor.
What he asks for and what he settles a deal for could be two different things or three if he decides not to sign with the Rangers and stay in Japan. You should get your story straight before you post.
"One time, when we got back to the locker room, all of our clothes were gone," Trout recalled. "They left me a Lady Gaga costume and I had to wear it."
No
The facts are there. Darvish was in Texas in the middle of the negotiating period thus negotiating. Now he’s working out in Japan. Outrageous numbers are being quoted in the article with sources. Darvish has never thrown a baseball in MLB – unproven.
I was accurate enough and if you can’t take a little spin you can go cry in the corner. This board is for Angels fans.
This could get interesting.
Your Angels: Telling Pythagoras to go to hell since 2004.
by sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher on Jan 8, 2012 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
my reaction exactly.....
as a new poster i am very optimistic about where this is going
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 8, 2012 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
I will, once the godaddy.com bowl is over.....
a tragic conclusion to one of my favorite parts of the sports calander…. bowl season (i dont consider the nat’l champ to count since people actually care about that game)
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 8, 2012 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
How disgusting can we be in our commentary of this picture?
Actually, forget it, I’ll do this privately.
Winning doesn't matter. -Lyle
Looks like there is an update with the Rangers and Darvish situation.
Sponichi: Talks between Texas Rangers and Yu Darvish are apparently not going well
by Gen on Jan.07, 2012 @ 12:29 pm, under MLB, NPB
Yu Darvish began his training in Miyazaki on Friday. The media was pretty much shutout from the workouts — the Nippon Ham Fighters asked reporters to refrain from making contact with Darvish (for interviews and photos).
Sponichi reports that talks between Darvish and the Texas Rangers are not going well — Darvish is looking for around 1.5B yen (or US$20M) a year at five years while the Rangers’ first offer may have been around 616M yen a year at six years. They also note that the two sides have yet to really start the negotiation process.
In a separate article, Sponichi wonders if Darvish has refrained from making comments to the press because he wants to make sure he can easily slide back into pitching for the Nippon Ham Fighters in 2012.
I agree with you that Darvish is unproven in so much as he has never thrown a pitch in MLB even though that was not a point I had any contention with in my previous comment. But even in this article it mentions Darvish has not entered into serious negotiations with the Rangers yet and it is speculated what the Rangers might offer and what Darvish camp think he should get. Certainly the Rangers aren’t going to publicize their offer at any point.
"One time, when we got back to the locker room, all of our clothes were gone," Trout recalled. "They left me a Lady Gaga costume and I had to wear it."
What is she doing with that one in her left hand?
If the Halos don't care about the way they play, then why should I?
Fielder
just got an 8-year deal from a “mystery team.” Could be Texas getting serious, after realizing that Darvish probably will not be signing.
source?
this sounds interesting…. anyone seen JeDi around lately?
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 8, 2012 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
Link your unfounded rumors, broham.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Jan 8, 2012 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
my bad
This is where I saw it:
http://twitter.com/#!/MLBinsiderChris/status/156211279734902784
Not so sure if it’s true, but hey, who knows?
Not to sure but....
This site seems to think the mystery team is the nats
it looks kinda bushleague, and i feel slightly embarrassed putting it up here but its within the last hour and it fits with the idea of a mystery team.
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 9, 2012 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
when i say kinda bushleague
I mean really bushleague…… but i guess its nice to think about Prince Fielder going to Washington and Yu Darvish asking for 20 million / year
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 9, 2012 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
It does give out kind of a warm feeling, huh?
Of course, I just drank my third Irish coffee of the morning…
Winning doesn't matter. -Lyle
I like it a lot
The Nats need to just take him off the market so the Rangers are left with either Yu or none at all.
It's about time Mystery Team signed someone.
They’re always rumored to be interested in players, but they never win.
its a real feel good story....
the mystery fanbase has had to deal with the whole unknowing for far too long
When I flip a coin I dont say heads or tails, I say Halos or Spurs
by ItCouldHappen on Jan 9, 2012 12:17 AM PST up reply actions
I just don't think he wants to pitch in Texas or at least wants it to be his choice
Right now he views this as making his old club rich while they choose where he goes. In my opinion, he is probably leaning towards being a rock star in Japan for another two years then setting his own course to America.
This is all just opinion and intuition on my part.
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