Who will you trade for Bobby Abreu?

by mattwelch on Jul 15, 2006 11:04 PM PDT

My Spidey sense sez that Bobby Abreu is the most likely "impact bat" that Stoneman will pursue before the trade deadline. Why?

Phillies suck.
Abreu, weirdly, has never been loved in Philly.
Dude's under contract until the end of 2007.
Angels got prospects.
Stoneman's serious when he says he won't do jack unless it's for an "impact bat."
I want you all to go and drool over Abreu's career numbers. Some highlights:
At least 99 runs scored in each of the last 7 years.
100 walks or more each of the last 7 years.
Lowest career OBP -- .393.
Current OBP -- .442. (Highest Angel OBP -- .408.)
Averaged 30 steals the last 7 years (and only 9 CS).
Lifetime .302/.413/.509.
Yes, his power is declining, but this is a bat that will not only help a ton the next 1.5 years, but will help even more by removing the last excuse possible for Scioscia to start G.A. in left field.

So -- who are you willing to trade?

My preferred package
Juan Rivera (they'll want a ML outfielder, and we'll need to move one).
Jeff Mathis (now expendable, and they got no catching).
Kevin Gregg (he could be packaged as a starter).

Who would you give up?

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Comments

Probably hafta throw in Dustin Moseley

but i would cram all four in my Ford Taurus to get them to the airport for their plane to Philly if that is all the Phanatic wants for Abreu.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 15, 2006 11:07 PM PDT reply actions

Ummmm

I wouldn't get rid of Rivera--think about it, if the two of them together hit really well, we'll be golden, right? I know that overcrowds the oufield, but that's not necessarily a bad thing...(move Figgins back to 3rd? Though that really doesn't seem to be a good idea...)

by Clutch on Jul 15, 2006 11:24 PM PDT reply actions

he plays right field

you would put GA in left EVERY DAY so that vlad or abreu could DH?

"I want to win when the whole world is watching, ... I want to win a World Series in an Angels uniform." - Vladimir Guerrero

by angels4adam on Jul 15, 2006 11:31 PM PDT reply actions

He plays RF ..

... poorly, by all accounts (online Phily phans were shocked when he was awarded a Gold Glove last year) so maybe LF would suit him. You could work out a pretty easy rotation with Abreu starting in LF and RF a couple of times per week, allowing the other guys to DH.

The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. -Gene Mauch

by Chronicles on Jul 15, 2006 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions

true

he does have 16 career games played in left. (seven starts)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3537&context=fielding

"I want to win when the whole world is watching, ... I want to win a World Series in an Angels uniform." - Vladimir Guerrero

by angels4adam on Jul 15, 2006 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions

I can't see

Philly going for that package. I think you'd have to include Aybar or Wood. I would part with the former but not the latter.

The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. -Gene Mauch

by Chronicles on Jul 15, 2006 11:33 PM PDT reply actions

yep

a bunch of fringe guys won't get it done IMO, they have Carlos Ruiz, who is a decent catching prospect already, would probably have to throw in an aybar or something, but that still leaves Rivera as the main piece? Don't know if that's what they are lookin for (not an upgrade over Burrel in LF or Rowand (whom they love in CF)) Although they would like to clear that salary for next year.

A bad day at the ballpark is better than the best day at work

by SoCalSoxFan @ Halos Heaven on Jul 15, 2006 11:49 PM PDT reply actions

Ruiz is 27 years old

Not exactly a hot prospect. Mathis, despite his earlier struggles, has much more upside. He's only 23, for goodness sakes - a lot of teams would still make a run at him as a major-league ready catcher.

by johnnyangel101 on Jul 16, 2006 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Phils are set at 2nd and short

They'd be thinking pitching.

Abreu's lefty hitting would be nice... He's past his prime but still good.

He's an unknown in the AL, don't know if that helps or hurts.

by johnsamo @ Halos Heaven on Jul 15, 2006 11:50 PM PDT reply actions

The more I think about

Why not go for Jaque Jones And Phil Nevin of the Cubs.... Jones a lefty hitter who can spell Juan, Figgy and Vlad when it's a righty pitcher.... Need to keep Vlad healthy for the big push.
Nevin can spell GA versus a lefty starter or reliever...

We can get these guys WAY CHEAPER than studs.

by johnsamo @ Halos Heaven on Jul 15, 2006 11:56 PM PDT reply actions

Well yes

But far as I can tell (from your previous posts) their numbers won't even be comparable.

Call me out if I'm being a dumbass in disagreeing.

by Clutch on Jul 15, 2006 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions

we've been-there-done-that

with nevin. we played him at catcher, but he HAS been known to play 1B, 3B, a little LF and a little RF. but in my opinion we don't need another 35 year old.

"I want to win when the whole world is watching, ... I want to win a World Series in an Angels uniform." - Vladimir Guerrero

by angels4adam on Jul 16, 2006 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions

Pull your head out of your ass, John

Nevin is a post-steroid bust and Jacque Jones is a has-been that never was.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 16, 2006 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Nevin has 15 HRs this year

but i agree - been there, done that. No to Jones, No to Nevin.

only impact bats need apply - this isn't 2002.

by rbrianc on Jul 16, 2006 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions

OMG

Seriously? Jacque Jones? Samo, you have no clue. This absolutely seals it. He's making too much money, he's not producing anything like enough for his contract. Here's Baseball Prospectus on his 2005 contract with the Cubs:

After a miserable '04 season, Jones is moving out of the period of his career when he was a success story any thrifty-minded GM wished he had, to becoming an overpriced problem. That's the nature of the career clock for arbitration: Jones has been good enough that everyone would shriek if he's non-tendered until it's a year too late, but you can hide behind the fig leaf of free agency if he leaves of his own volition. He'll be bad news for as long as he's an everyday player.

Looking at his current VORP ranking among right fielders, you might be pleased to see him adjacent to J.D. Drew of the Dodgers, who is getting paid about $4M/year more than he is. The problem is, both of them stink. Thanks to the magic of arbitration and free agency, he's an overpriced hitter who's having a career year in a park that favors right handed hitters. No. Fargin'. Way.

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions

That is if we can't get Soriano

Soriano playing left is a much better option than switching Abreu to right....

by johnsamo @ Halos Heaven on Jul 15, 2006 11:58 PM PDT reply actions

Nationals GM

said on 710 radio that 7 teams are interested enough in Soriano to talk to him about it and that the ANGELS were NOT one of them.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 16, 2006 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions

Then why

Has there been so much d**n speculation about it? The LA Times seems convinced it's going to happen one way or the other, and while I know they're not entirely reliable, you'd think something might be up...

by Clutch on Jul 16, 2006 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions

why?

to sell papers, that's why.

by rbrianc on Jul 16, 2006 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions

I thought I was the only one who knew that

all those journalism classes to know things the general population has already figured out...

by Rev Halofan on Jul 16, 2006 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Sigh

The world today...why am I so idealistic?

by Clutch on Jul 16, 2006 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions

TODAY?

Shit, it was much worse in the 40s-80s when there was not a damn internet giving away their frickin stories FOR FREE !

by Rev Halofan on Jul 16, 2006 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions

True

Bigger sigh

by Clutch on Jul 16, 2006 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions

Thank God

Soriano is iron pyrite.

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions

It's not who would we give up...

it's who would the Phillies want?

Rivera and Mathis, yes; Gregg, sure, but I believe the Phillies would want more.

I agree it's weird how Philadelphia has never really embraced Abreu. However, Pat Gillick is no dummy, and I'm sure he realizes he has a nice bargaining chip.

According to ESPN.com's Rumor Central, the Mets, Yankees, and Tigers are interested in the rightfielder. THE METS, despite trading all their young pitching to Florida in the offseason, still have some young, major league ready pitching to offer in Brian Bannister and Alay Soler. With the division all but wrapped up, however, I don't think the Mets will be willing to part with too much. THE YANKEES can offer Philip Hughes, a prospect as highly regarded as Nick Adenhart. THE TIGERS can also offer pitching: Humberto Sanchez, Jordan Tata, and former Rule 5-er Wil Ledezma. Other than Lastings Milledge, none of these teams have position players at upper levels that would likely appeal to Philadelphia.

This leads us next to what Philadelphia would want. Although their pitching is suffering this year, they actually have some promising young arms in Brett Myers, Cole Hamels, and Scott Mathieson. Strong frontline guys, but little depth after that. As far as position players go, they have Michael Bourn, just promoted to AAA, as a fast leadoff type hitting OF. Again, not a lot of upper level depth after him.

With a solid core still intact at the major league level (Howard, Utley, Burrell, Rollins), Philadelphia might request a major league starter (or equivalent), and/or a major league ready position player (C, 3B or OF), and/or a young pitching prospect.

Because of the strength/limitations of our "trading competition", the Angels should offer something similar to what other teams could, with a little icing - i.e., a solid pitching prospect with a major league ready position player.

Overall, the Angels could probably fit any or all three needs of Philadelphia. Remember, though, it's going to take QUALITY to get quality. This isn't going to be "Aubrey Huff for a couple of prospects."

Although I wouldn't like it, we may have to part with Arredondo, Marek, or (last ditch) Adenhart, mainly because the other teams can offer pitching, too. And it may take an impact arm to get a player like Abreu. Someone like Mathis or McPherson could be sent, too, without much impact on the current club. Or, in a twist, send Escobar in hopes that Saunders is ready (we'll see on Tuesday). If McPherson gets traded, Rivera can slide over to CF with Figgins returning to 3B.

My trade proposal, and it hinges a LOT on how Joe Saunders looks: Escobar, Mathis, and McPherson for Abreu and Rheal Cormier. Or not...

by johnnyangel101 on Jul 16, 2006 1:31 AM PDT reply actions

Cannot Trade Escobar

In the first year of a multi year contract, a player can demand a trade in the offseason after being traded.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 16, 2006 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions

I believe Abreu has a no-trade clause

So there would be players on both sides that would have to waive their rights - further complicating a very difficult trade.

Escobar CAN be traded, though, without his approval. On the other hand, he has a right to demand a trade in the offseason. He might exercise that right, too, but my gut feeling is that he would rescind the demand by the March 15th deadline (as most players do, Kris Benson being the first player to pop into my head). He signed a pretty decent contract, and would unlikely find a much better deal on the open market. That's a chance the Phillies might be willing to take, even without approval...

by johnnyangel101 on Jul 16, 2006 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions

interesting

that you bring up DMAC. . . were rumors of him going to SD a while back, but Philly would be a good place for him, and w/ David Bell, he could slide in and be another big bat there. Imagine if he'd stay healthy and reach his potential!! He and Howard would be pretty nice from the left side.

My bad on Ruiz's age, some guy was hyping him up to me and didn't realize he was that, um. . . Ripe. They have a few others that are decent behind the dish though, but Mathis could probably step in and get a shot at the everyday job, still has to be considered a top three catching prospect.

A bad day at the ballpark is better than the best day at work

by SoCalSoxFan @ Halos Heaven on Jul 16, 2006 9:42 AM PDT reply actions

It would be hard to part with McPherson

but it seems that Scioscia is reaching the end of his rope. Too bad, too, because, as you say, if he ever reaches his potential, he could really be a solid contributor.

The bottom line here: I believe the Angels could mix'n'match to fit what the Phillies need, without ripping the core of the team or the minor leagues apart. And I would want the Phillies to throw in Cormier, too. Lidle, I believe, is in the last year of his contract, too, and might be tossed in just to move salary as well. Stoneman could make it work. Billy Beane would...

by johnnyangel101 on Jul 16, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions

Figure Movin

McP would start the transition of Brandon Wood to 3b. I don't think the move is a definate necessity, but is probable down the line and with OC signed for a few more years Wood will be ready while he is still in town.

A bad day at the ballpark is better than the best day at work

by SoCalSoxFan @ Halos Heaven on Jul 16, 2006 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions

They said in today's broadcast

that Izturis will continue to be the starting 3B even after McPherson comes back. They've had enough.

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions

then deal him

Izturis doesn't seem like a long term solution, figure you need some pop on the corners, but who knows.

A bad day at the ballpark is better than the best day at work

by SoCalSoxFan @ Halos Heaven on Jul 16, 2006 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions

OK this is flying off my perspective

so take it for that BUT I think Izzy is a far better 3rd baseman than DMac. I think with some time at 3rd, he could be a panther in that position. Now, as far as the Almighty Sacred Stats (known as ASS from now on) how do they fly comparing Izzy and DMac??

by ladybug on Jul 16, 2006 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions

I've seen Izturis lay out

more times in this series than Dallas has all year.

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions

as long as the Angels keep winning...

I'm not as down on McPherson as you two, but let's face it - as long as the Angels are winning and Izturis is decently producing, he needs to remain in the lineup. And you know what? Maybe we get a half-season of a .285 BA, decent OBP, some steals, and great defense. And McPherson? If he doesn't fit into the Angels plans, then he should be considered part of a trade package. His super-prospect status is tarnished, but if we leave him at Salt Lake, maybe he hits a bunch of home runs to increase his value.

I like Izturis, but one thing to remember: hustle and getting dirty is cool, but production is still important (Eric Owens, anybody?). And McPherson's numbers are still better than Izturis':

McPherson (BA/OBP/SLG)
2006: .266/.304/.468
Career: .249/.296/.458

Izturis
2006: .255/.354/.327
Career: .237/.313/.333

One thing Izturis IS doing better of lately: drawing walks and getting on base - perhaps something the Angels NEED. But, gosh, it's awfully hard to have a higher OBP than SLG...not a real good long-term solution at the position...

by johnnyangel101 on Jul 16, 2006 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm not DOWN on DMac

just a bigger fan of Izzy's. You guys look at the stats, the numbers, the factual stuff. I look at other things: the way they act when the ball goes towards them, I try to read their faces, the body posture, the movements. I can usually tell when someone is off because of a change in body movement/range of motion etc. DMac has a thing where, when the ball is hit within about a 30 degree angle directly in front of him (picture his chest as the point and then ~30 degrees radiating out directly in front of him) that when the ball is hit there, he actually tenses up, recoils and has a tendency to make bad defensive moves. If the ball hits outside this area, he is fine. Balls to the side of him, no problem-no recoil, no tenseness he can dive. I don't know if he got hit badly or what but that is his little unconscious mannerism.

by ladybug on Jul 16, 2006 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Psst...

Even if you like Izturis, we need a left handed power bat. This lineup is starting to look VERY right handed. DMac could be the left handed bat we need if he stays healthy.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jul 16, 2006 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions

agreed...but that's a big IF

DMac seems to be our Nomar

by ladybug on Jul 17, 2006 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, runs suck

D-Mac had his EqA up to .256 before his latest back flare-up, and is at .252 for his young career. Ztu is at .255 this year, which is him pretty much maxing out, as he has only a .232 for his career.

And Dallas has been pretty solid defensively this year (last year, too). He has a higher Zone Rating, Range Factor (behind the same pitchers, generally), and Fielding Percentage than Ztu.

There is a real problem with McPherson, and it's that back injuries don't just go away. And it would be nice if he could stop getting hurt just when his bat is heating up. But I think it would be silly for the Angels to just give up on him.

The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. -Gene Mauch

by Chronicles on Jul 17, 2006 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions

They already have

I expect him to have to fight for every at bat, if not end up traded. I couldn't believe the comments during yesterday's game.

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Jul 17, 2006 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions

Matt...

If we could get Abreu for Mathis, Rivera, Gregg I would do it in a heartbeat.

"Fuck the bondsman. I will do the time." -Madame Rev

by cupie on Jul 16, 2006 4:36 PM PDT reply actions

agreed...

if they'll do it for that it's a no brainer. It MAY be possible since Philly/Abreu is going to be the closest thing to a salary dumped all star we'll see this year.

I wouldn't give a ton more for him though as he is a player on the decline who has hit for very little power since last year's home run derby, and his SB days in meaningful games are behind him as he runs like an old man. The OBP alone would be nice though.

by thewebb on Jul 16, 2006 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions