Eight Possible Angel Trades

Yes to 4 and 8...

... no on the rest.

Santana may end up better than Dontrelle on his own; Dunn's a schlumph who's not very good away from Great American, Dye is toast, K-Rod's untouchable, McCann is not that much better than Napoli, and I can hit better than Audrey Huff.

by mattwelch on Jul 11, 2007 8:05 PM PDT reply actions

Exactly

4 & 8 and the rest ain't great.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jul 11, 2007 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, this thread was short-lived...

Just for fun, 'welch and 'duck should write three trade proposals each for the site.

by Bilko 420 on Jul 11, 2007 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions

You rang?

Trades for A-Rod:

All must include Chone Figgins
Would preferably include Colon, Jose Molina, and either Aybar or Izturis, if the Yankees will have any of them them.
Will probably need to include a pitcher who could help soon -- either Santana or Adenhart.
Might need to include another prospect you don't want to give up -- Morales or Wood or Mathis.
Must be limited to three players on the Angels side (Stoneman voodoo).

So the question is, how far are you willing to go with that set-up?

My breaking point would be somewhere right around Chone, Santana and Morales. Change Morales with Wood or Adenhart, I wouldn't do it.

by mattwelch on Jul 11, 2007 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Chone, Santana, Morales

Light up the Halo, another World Series victory!

I'm giving Figgins a big F U. Seattle isn't winning 90. I am not worried.

by hauldog on Jul 11, 2007 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm kinda dissappointed we couldn't trade

Hillenbrand and Carrasco for A-Rod. And we could have throw in Colon and D-Mac too.

by melvintoast on Jul 11, 2007 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions

WTF Welch?

You'd trade Wood/Adenhart for power declining Tejada but not 30 HR at the break A-Rod?

I'm confused.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jul 12, 2007 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Pretty sure I never agreed on Ervin

I think it was more Chone + prospect & maybe spare part, but maybe I'm not remembering right.

But the key was whether we've given up on Wood as a shortstop. If so, I'd throw him in the A-Rod deal in a heartbeat, since we wouldn't be needing a 3B prospect so much. But then y'all pointed out that Wood's playing SS 2-3 times a week....

by mattwelch on Jul 12, 2007 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions

Wood

Played SS 4 out of the last 6 or something like that

I'm giving Figgins a big F U. Seattle isn't winning 90. I am not worried.

by hauldog on Jul 12, 2007 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Agree to four and eight

But I also think you have to be smoking some really serious shit to even consider six or seven.

by LA Seitz on Jul 12, 2007 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions

worse... much worse...

stone cold sober...

by Rev Halofan on Jul 12, 2007 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions

yeah, but.....

what do you do with Kotchman?? Better fielder than Texeira, but hitting....I dont think so. Atleast not yet...I'm not willing to give away three guys to find out though!!!

by autrys cowboys on Jul 13, 2007 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions

just need another bat

Someone who is a threat to hit the long ball or extra bases. That's all they need to be competitive all the way to the end. It would be ideal if this came from within.

by pasquale on Jul 13, 2007 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Jered Weaver for Aubrey Huff

is by far the most laughable one.

I wouldn't trade Moseley for Aubrey Huff.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jul 11, 2007 8:14 PM PDT reply actions

Thanks Dark

I thought I was the only one who thought this is a complete giveaway to the O's. Weaver is young and unless he's really hurt, why trade him?

Huff is a career .280+ hitter/25HR's, but outside of his cycle, hasn't done a lot this year with his .260 average. And that's in the O's line-up that includes Roberts, Tejada, and Mora. He does play 1b/3b, so that may help.

by SactoFan on Jul 13, 2007 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions

agreed

Thats a joke....Aubrey who???????

by autrys cowboys on Jul 13, 2007 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions

my 2 cents

No -- too much.
No -- No -- No
No -- please God no
Yes -- although who plays 1st base and who's the DH? Teixeira won that gold glove (over Ersty...what a joke), but I still think Casey can pick with the best of them
No -- Anyone else but Frankie...and assurance that ARod will not opt out
Maybe -- I'm hesitant to deal Santana...my gut (rather sizable as it is) tells me he will be very good someday.
No
Yes -- I hate the thought of dealing Santana, but Crawford is special.

How come no trades involving Hillenbrand or Carrasco? hmmm

Feels like the 1970's all over again. <sigh>

by Moondoggy on Jul 11, 2007 8:18 PM PDT reply actions

I was shocked

to find that Teixeira's defense ranked as high as a 107 Rate2 ($?) last year, but it's consistent with the Chronicler's work translating David Pinto's PMR to runs. That said, he still wasn't as good as Casey (over the short haul that Kotchman was available in 2006), and I don't think he'll be as good over their respective careers.

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jul 12, 2007 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions

Correction

He wasn't as good as Casey was in 2005.

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jul 12, 2007 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions

SANTANA

Trade Santana for anyone. He has good stuff, but nothing between the ears.
Any trade must include Jose Mota, undoubtedly the worst play by play announcer in baseball

by pasquale on Jul 12, 2007 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Couldn't agree more

To both parts. Especially about Mota. When he is announcing, I mute the TV and watch it while I listen to the game on the radio.

by LiteuptheHalo on Jul 13, 2007 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes to 4, maybe to 2 but

not sure what to make of Dunn's power numbers, given he hits against AAAA pitching in a AAA park.

Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!

by Fan Since 1981 on Jul 11, 2007 8:21 PM PDT reply actions

the arod deal

i heard that he is going to opt out at the end of the season, and that the yankees out of fear for loosing him for nothing are willing to take chone and santana

by wallispdub1 on Jul 11, 2007 8:22 PM PDT reply actions

That deal

is too good to be true. If it si true it should have been called in yesterday

I'm giving Figgins a big F U. Seattle isn't winning 90. I am not worried.

by hauldog on Jul 11, 2007 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions

uuhhh, you got a link?

i'd take that deal and throw in coach owens as a batting dummy!

by SCHalo on Jul 11, 2007 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions

espn.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2933023&type=story

The Yankees have changed their traditional stance and are now willing to negotiate during the season with their star third baseman on a contract extension, MLB sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. The key sticking point for the Yankees in the prospective negotiations is that Rodriguez agree not to opt out of his current contract after this season and agree to add any extension to the current contract, which expires after the 2010 season. Approximately one-third of the remaining $81 million of the current contract is being paid by the Texas Rangers, which was part of the trade that brought Rodriguez to New York. Though the Yankees are underperforming so far this season, it's not A-Rod's fault. Rodriguez leads the major leagues at the All-Star break with 30 home runs and 86 RBIs and has a .317 average.

by melvintoast on Jul 11, 2007 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Willits and Santana for Crawford...

seems like the best of those scenarios, especially with Rivera coming back soon. Anderson could spend the remainder of his time with the club as a DH or in PH scenarios, and we could bring up Terry Evans for some outfield depth. Willits may be gold right now, but we cant expect him to hit this well until he's proven he can stay consistent.

by iamnotcool on Jul 11, 2007 8:23 PM PDT reply actions

My response:

No
Emphatic NO
No
Maybe, but I like Kotchman
If Frankie is included, hell no.
McCann is overrated.
Sadly, probably. Guy fits perfectly into the team's offensive philosophy, AND he has power.

Light Up That Halo! ...and tell Clutch to chill!

by cardinalwraith on Jul 11, 2007 8:23 PM PDT reply actions

Crap, didn't see 7

HELL NO.
See my answer to number 7 above

Light Up That Halo! ...and tell Clutch to chill!

by cardinalwraith on Jul 11, 2007 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Answer

1. No 2. No 3. No 4. God yes 5. No 6. Maybe if McCann could remember how to hit 7. Would rather jump off a tall building then do that 8. No, Crawford is overrated

by edhoo on Jul 11, 2007 8:35 PM PDT reply actions

Yes to All.....If we want them to turn around and

bite us on our ass.

Rodriguez is the Best Closer
Santana will be great
Morales will be an AllStar after a season in the Majors.
and so on......

If we trade Kendry to the Yankees he will knock us out of the playoffs with one swing in the ALCS.

If we trade him to the Rangers.....He will own us.

Same goes for K-Rod....we aint going to find a closer like that in a long time.

Conclusion.....F@#$ NO TO ALL!!!!!!!!!!

GO ANGELS....get hurt Anderson.....and get well RIVERA/D-MAC!!!!

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Jul 11, 2007 8:35 PM PDT reply actions

Trade

No
No
YES
Maybe. if Kotch doesn't turn it around before the trade deadline then Yes
No
No
No
Yes

by thebigA on Jul 11, 2007 8:50 PM PDT reply actions

Huh?

What has Kotch not done that he needs to turn it around? Jeez, I was thinking he's having a pretty good year so far for a 24 year old:

.291avg .365obp 9HRs

by SactoFan on Jul 13, 2007 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions

My calls

Answer Yes Or No to Each of Them

1. Ervin Santana and minor leaguers Sean Rodriguez and Nick Adenhardt for...
Dontrelle WILLIS

No thanks

2. Chone Figgins and minor leaguer Brandon Wood for...
Adam DUNN

Absolutely not.

3. Joe Saunders and Jason Bulger for
Jermaine DYE

Yes please. Not sure where we play him though

4. Kendry Morales and minor leaguers Stephen Marek and Jose Arredondo for
Mark TEIXEIRA

Yes please

5. Ervin Santana, Francisco Rodriguez and Kendry Morales for
Alex RODRIGUEZ

FUCK no. Unless we can get that Putz guy I hear he is the cock of the walk.

6. Ervin Santana, Mike Napoli and Dustin Moseley for
Brian MCCANN

Yes please

7. Jered Weaver for
Aubrey HUFF

That is fucking retarded

8. Reggie Willits, Ervin Santana and minr leaguer Jose Arredondo for
Carl CRAWFORD

Yes please. Jesus that would be like christmas

I'm giving Figgins a big F U. Seattle isn't winning 90. I am not worried.

by hauldog on Jul 11, 2007 8:57 PM PDT reply actions

Hmmm...

1. Ervin Santana and minor leaguers Sean Rodriguez and Nick Adenhardt for...
Dontrelle WILLIS

Ugh. Slightly too much. NO.

2. Chone Figgins and minor leaguer Brandon Wood for...
Adam DUNN

NOOO!

3. Joe Saunders and Jason Bulger for
Jermaine DYE

4. Kendry Morales and minor leaguers Stephen Marek and Jose Arredondo for
Mark TEIXEIRA

Yep. I like Kowbell as much as the next guy, but I think Tiexera is gonna be more reliable, and 3 years older isn't too much...

5. Ervin Santana, Francisco Rodriguez and Kendry Morales for
Alex RODRIGUEZ

No. Definately not. Mostly because of the contract situation. With Ichiro getting $20 mil, A-Rod will vry likely get $25 Million+year, and the Angels are too good a team to hurt themselves with a major player's retirement deal like that. We'd be better off locking up a premier closer for his career and the other two decent trade chips to fill out the needs of a team that can otherwise win at least 80-90 games/season for the foreseeable future.

6. Ervin Santana, Mike Napoli and Dustin Moseley for
Brian MCCANN

Nah. Napoli seems to have fans on this pitching staff and in Mike Scioscia to be worth keeping a few years, plus I actually like Moseley as a relief guy (maybe because he's a Texarkana guy...)

7. Jered Weaver for
Aubrey HUFF

HEEELLLLNNOOOO!!! Jered is, at the absolute worst, a very, very good 4th starter at SIX years younger than Huff. The team philosophy in the Stoneman era has been based on STRONG starting, and I'm not comfortable with a rotation of Lackey/Escobar...Saunders?/Adenhart/Moseley + somebody on the back end tgo go to war with long-term.

8. Reggie Willits, Ervin Santana and minr leaguer Jose Arredondo for
Carl CRAWFORD

SIGH. No. I like Willits and trust Rivera enough that it's not worth it anymore. Man, I LOVE Craword, though... ask me tomorrow...

by Brendo on Jul 11, 2007 9:36 PM PDT reply actions

Trades

1. Ervin Santana and minor leaguers Sean Rodriguez and Nick Adenhardt for...
Dontrelle WILLIS

NO - take out either Adenhardt or Rodriguez and then YES.

2. Chone Figgins and minor leaguer Brandon Wood for...
Adam DUNN

HELL NO

3. Joe Saunders and Jason Bulger for
Jermaine DYE

Nope - not with the stats he's putting up.

4. Kendry Morales and minor leaguers Stephen Marek and Jose Arredondo for
Mark TEIXEIRA

Yes - he's played 3B before right?

5. Ervin Santana, Francisco Rodriguez and Kendry Morales for
Alex RODRIGUEZ

NO - No way to including Frankie - find someone else to throw in.

6. Ervin Santana, Mike Napoli and Dustin Moseley for
Brian MCCANN

Sure - why would Atl want to trade him though?

7. Jered Weaver for
Aubrey HUFF

In the words of Hauldog...That is fucking retarded

8. Reggie Willits, Ervin Santana and minr leaguer Jose Arredondo for
Carl CRAWFORD

Absolutely - where do I sign

What? Figgins is playing better? Well, I still don't like him.

by gorams77 on Jul 11, 2007 9:44 PM PDT reply actions

I slept on it

and I change #1 to Yes as is.

What? Figgins is playing better? Well, I still don't like him.

by gorams77 on Jul 12, 2007 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions

4

four sounds good wasnt i reading something about how mark teixera is a decent third basemen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlTvSUCCqPo

by ANewFoundThrice on Jul 11, 2007 10:00 PM PDT reply actions

#7 sounds good.

Rev sure has been in a funny mood lately.

by bc56274 on Jul 11, 2007 10:55 PM PDT reply actions

Yes to some

4 and 8 make sense
I have been hoping we get Carl Crawford for the past two years, and they need to do something (they being TB) or maddon's job is on the line. Lets get a guy who can hit 25 HR steal 50 bases and plays a good LF. IT is like combining Figgy and Juan Rivera (from last season)

by Sinatrasratpack on Jul 11, 2007 11:36 PM PDT reply actions

2 yes'

1. Ervin Santana and minor leaguers Sean Rodriguez and Nick Adenhardt for...
Dontrelle WILLIS

YES

2. Chone Figgins and minor leaguer Brandon Wood for...
Adam DUNN

NO

3. Joe Saunders and Jason Bulger for
Jermaine DYE

NO

4. Kendry Morales and minor leaguers Stephen Marek and Jose Arredondo for
Mark TEIXEIRA

YES

5. Ervin Santana, Francisco Rodriguez and Kendry Morales for
Alex RODRIGUEZ

NO

6. Ervin Santana, Mike Napoli and Dustin Moseley for
Brian MCCANN

NO

7. Jered Weaver for
Aubrey HUFF

NO

8. Reggie Willits, Ervin Santana and minor leaguer Jose Arredondo for
Carl CRAWFORD

NO

john RIP samo

by angels4adam on Jul 11, 2007 11:39 PM PDT reply actions

land A-rod and win multiple rings

#4 - Yes
#5 - Possibly. tough to give up arguably the best closer in the game, hollywood and all
the rest - No

by yeswecan on Jul 12, 2007 1:29 AM PDT reply actions

NO NO NO

Except to 8.

A-Rod deal makes sense except when Frankie's in there. Adding him and the rest is slitting our wrists for a band-aid.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Jul 12, 2007 2:35 AM PDT reply actions

Here is a trade proposal I like: Carlos Lee

Ervin Santana, Kendry Morales and a young arm [Jose Arredondo] for Carlos Lee.

Lee is signed to an expensive long-term contract, but Houston is floundering and maybe looking to rebuild with younger and considerably cheaper guys than Lee.

Lee would be the productive 'bat' that the Angels would slot in the middle of the order that is an all-star, but not such an unrealistic player to get at this point.

He would be slotted in left field/DH while GA 'mends' in oblivion while Reggie Willits plays the utility outfielder who would play everyday otherwise.

by Halos2002 on Jul 12, 2007 2:40 AM PDT reply actions

Lee

Is going to stay in houston because he wants to be somewhere he can maintain his cattle ranches also. No one wants to take that big of a contract and if any time we were to get him it would have been last summer and you saw how he did for texas in the AL....not so good.

"I love this british shit!" -Lou Brown

by jtkelly86 on Jul 12, 2007 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes to 4, 5, and 8

'86 never happened!

by Downing Rules on Jul 12, 2007 6:27 AM PDT reply actions

Here we go

Yes (Marlins won't do it)
No
No
Yes
Yes (A-Rod won't approve)
Yes (Braves will never do it)
No (are you kidding?)
Yes

by elricsi on Jul 12, 2007 6:41 AM PDT reply actions

Here you go

1. Ervin Santana and minor leaguers Sean Rodriguez and Nick Adenhardt for...
Dontrelle WILLIS
ABSOLUTELY YES! Bye bye Ervin (we have seen what we've got in him, and bye bye to Sean and Nick, because we don't know what they can do at the major league level yet)

2. Chone Figgins and minor leaguer Brandon Wood for...
Adam DUNN

NO WAY! Not sold on Adam Dunn

3. Joe Saunders and Jason Bulger for
Jermaine DYE

YES, hate to see Joe go, but we know that Jermaine can mash.

4. Kendry Morales and minor leaguers Stephen Marek and Jose Arredondo for
Mark TEIXEIRA
YES, WHERE DO I SIGN! A Proven Hitter.

5. Ervin Santana, Francisco Rodriguez and Kendry Morales for
Alex RODRIGUEZ

OF COURSE YES, are you Kiddin' Me! We will have arguably one of the greatest hitters of all time who (if he continues to stay healthy) will one day be the HR King. SCOT SHIELDS is are NEW CLOSER!

6. Ervin Santana, Mike Napoli and Dustin Moseley for
Brian MCCANN
NO FUCKING WAY. WHO IS BRIAN MCCAN?????

7. Jered Weaver for
Aubrey HUFF

Uhhhh NO !

8. Reggie Willits, Ervin Santana and minr leaguer Jose Arredondo for
Carl CRAWFORD

Not Sure on this one. Have we seen enough of Reggie??? SURE ! How many more Chone Figgins will we need to be the fastest team in baseball.

Somewhere in Arizona Smokin' TumbleWeeds

by Rex DaKine Budler on Jul 12, 2007 6:58 AM PDT reply actions

Annoyed as I am with Santana

I would not pull the trigger on a deal for him. He has potential, but he doesn't (now) belong in the majors.

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jul 12, 2007 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Trades

NO
YES, Im as fired up as anyone for Wood, but, Dunn=ring this year
Maybe
In one second, also a ring
No
Hell no
Please, no
Yes, Crawford is rare

by thedon on Jul 12, 2007 7:31 AM PDT reply actions

Hmmm-interesting trade proposals

1. Ervin Santana and minor leaguers Sean Rodriguez and Nick Adenhardt for...
Dontrelle WILLIS

Yes if it's Sean OR Nick - not both

2. Chone Figgins and minor leaguer Brandon Wood for...
Adam DUNN

I like Dunn, but no

3. Joe Saunders and Jason Bulger for
Jermaine DYE

No

4. Kendry Morales and minor leaguers Stephen Marek and Jose Arredondo for
Mark TEIXEIRA

Umm, YEAH...

5. Ervin Santana, Francisco Rodriguez and Kendry Morales for
Alex RODRIGUEZ

Maybe, I can't decide

6. Ervin Santana, Mike Napoli and Dustin Moseley for
Brian MCCANN

I like McCann a LOT - a Catcher who hits lefthanded and had an OPS+ of 146 at age 22 is a rare find. With that said, I'm not sure I would include all three. With Saltalamacchia on board, the Braves might not need Napoli, too.

No.

7. Jered Weaver for
Aubrey HUFF

Does Stoneman smoke the good stuff? With Andy McPhail?

8. Reggie Willits, Ervin Santana and minr leaguer Jose Arredondo for
Carl CRAWFORD

Hmmm. Maybe. Crawford reminds me a lot of Claudell Washington, with nice little upgrades. I was hoping his power would develop a little more this year, but it hasn't (yet). I'm not sure I would give up this package of players for him - but I wouldn't mind having him.

"When you don't know that you don't know, it's a lot different than when you do know that you don't know" - Bill Parcells

by johnnyangel101 on Jul 12, 2007 8:03 AM PDT reply actions

I do the trades for...

Dye - This one is close, but I'd probably do it.
Teixeira - Absolutely. He's a stud.
McCann - Not that the Braves would do it.
Crawford - Most people here seem to agree on this one.

I love Dunn, but that's too much to give up for a 3 or 4 month rental (he becomes a free agent if traded). If you replaced it with the Teixeira package, then I'd pull the trigger.

If the Weaver-for-Huff deal were to actually happen, I think I'd cry.

by Dogman on Jul 12, 2007 8:53 AM PDT reply actions

No to all except the last one

I love Reggie, but as teh saying goes, you have to give up something to get something.

It is way overdue Arte. #5 needs to be retired by the Angels.

by BrianDowningFan on Jul 12, 2007 9:09 AM PDT reply actions

Sorry

these are all ridiculous.

Dontrelle isn't worth that package based on his actual talent.
Dunn isn't worth that package based on his contract status.
Dye is a rental so Saunders is too big a price himself.
Teixeira is more valuable than that package. One grade A prospect is more valuable than the three C prospects that are mentioned above.
AROD why bother when he is likely to opt out of his contract?
McCann isn't the catcher they would likey move. Saltalamacchia would be made available by the Braves. McCann is one of the players the Braves are building around.
Huff is no way on par with Weaver in respect to current value.
CC for Ervin was a starting point last season. However, the Rays don't need anymore OF's or ultra raw arms or head cases. A better bet would be for the Angels to take a shot a Elijah Dukes rather than pay to much for CC.

Finally, Bill Stoneman would be one half of the equation in finalizing any of these deals. I can't see any of the proposed even getting past an initial phone conversation.

by riktermiller on Jul 12, 2007 10:24 AM PDT reply actions

Totally agree

For reasons practical, none of these happen.

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jul 12, 2007 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions

A-Rod not ridiculous

AROD why bother when he is likely to opt out of his contract?

Because you might be able to convince him to not opt out before you make the trade. That is not at all a ridiculous scenario; if the Yanks can't extend him or convince him to hold off on the opt-out by the trading deadline, and they are nowhere near a Wild Card spot (both those scenarios are quite plausible), then they'll probably want to shop him around. He's got to waive his no-trade clause, so after pencilling out a deal with the Angels, they'd say "hey, what about waiving your no-trade to the Angels?" At which point Boras would sound out Arte, and vice-versa, and both sides would pull the trigger if they were confident about an extension.

by mattwelch on Jul 12, 2007 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Long Shot

Boras seems determined to go to free agency

I'm giving Figgins a big F U. Seattle isn't winning 90. I am not worried.

by hauldog on Jul 12, 2007 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions

But why would you take that risk

AND give up FRANKIE?

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Jul 12, 2007 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Strictly speaking of Frankie

The reason the Halos would trade K-ROD for A-ROD is because both players are "one of kind in their era" and MAINLY because the Halos feel that with a healthy Speier and Scot Shields, you now have your new set up man (Justin) and closer (Scot).

Question for Halos fans: Who thinks Scot has what it takes to be a solid closer and Speier a solid Set Up Man or vice versa.

There is Only 1 Frankie and There is Only 1 A-Rod

Somewhere in Arizona Smokin' TumbleWeeds

by Rex DaKine Budler on Jul 12, 2007 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Has a Boras client

ever signed a contract extension without testing free agency?

I'm too busy with actual work to research it, and I'm not really sure how I'd go about it. But I suspect the answer is "no." Players who hire Boras for one reason: to get the most money possible, and invariably that comes from a free agent bidding war.

I doubt Boras will even take on a client whose bottom line isn't, you know, the bottom line.

There is no way A-Rod signs an extension with the Yankees, or anyone else.

by jjackflash on Jul 12, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions

The trade thread

is for "perfect world" scenarios - is that or is that not an equiable trade and one that will help the Angels more than it hurts them???

by Rev Halofan on Jul 12, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Sorry

No.

For the record, I'd say yes to #4 and that's it.

by jjackflash on Jul 12, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions

In a perfect world

I would trade José Mota for a box of mustaches.

Maybe you should change the thread title to "Eight Possible 'Perfect World' Angel Trades"?

by Bilko 420 on Jul 12, 2007 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions

In other words

pretend you are a 1974 team general manager.

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jul 13, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Doin' That Rag

Everybody's favorite 'bowl-side read...

30 SOMETHING
A-ROD WILL TOP $30M REGARDLESS OF OPT-OUT; BORAS READY FOR BATTLE

On Old-Timer's Day, when it was suggested that Rodriguez could reach $30 million annually as a free agent, Yankee executive and Rodriguez confidant Reggie Jackson said, "I think you are on the short side." He quoted $30 million-$40 million as the probable range.

by Bilko 420 on Jul 12, 2007 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Agree with others

I can't think of a single Boras client who was ever extended before going to free agency. Anyway, BTF posted a story from the Daily News saying the Yanks were proposing an ultimatum to A-Rod: sign an extension or the Yankees won't bid on him in the offseason. How serious they are I can't say, but if they are, that leaves, notionally, the Angels, the Red Sox, and the Dodgers. The Angels' owner has gone on record muttering something about fiscal accountability, and the Dodgers' GM doesn't like Scott Boras and has walked away from two players represented by him (Luke Hochevar in the 2005 draft, and J.D. Drew in the 2005/2006 offseason).

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jul 13, 2007 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions

All the Yankees are doing

by this so called in-season negotiating (a supposed first for the organization under Steinbrenner) is driving up the price for any team who can pony up the cash for A-Rod. Why the Yanks would be doing this is to financially strap down whatever "contending team" would trade for A-Rod with the hopes that any legitimate contender would be screwed from signing the other remaining players it would take to win a WS and thus eliminate any competition for the Yankees in the future.

Why would Steinbrenner start negotiating now, when he never did, and particularly when the future ownership of the Yankees is in limbo. Unless his only reason would be so that with A-Rod signed he can get the most money for the Yanks when he sells them.

Somewhere in Arizona Smokin' TumbleWeeds

by Rex DaKine Budler on Jul 12, 2007 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Your gnolls are too grassy

If Skanks lose A-Rod without compensation, it doesn't matter if the winning bidder will be otherwise priced out of the F.A. market, because they will have gotten the best possible free agent, and meanwhile the Yankees won't have anybody to play first base. If the Angels sign A-Rod, they won't need to sign another major free agent for years, probably.

by mattwelch on Jul 12, 2007 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Kevin Brown. Ken Griffey, Jr.

The actual biggest problem I see with a long-term deal for A-Rod, aside from the likelihood that he'll substantially decline as an offensive force over the course of the minimum five-year deal needed to sign him in the first place, is that implicit in all these calculations is the idea that Rodriguez will continue to be healthy because he has been healthy. While I realize the dynamics of signing pitchers differ greatly from those of position players, it seems to me this belief is very likely wrong.

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jul 13, 2007 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Pitcher comparisons aren't valid

A-Rod is 31 years old right now. Chances are very very good he will be a very very good ballplayer five years from now, at age 36. Sure, he could get hurt, but sure anybody could get hurt at any time, and he takes much better care of himself than Griffey ever did. Let's look at his comps:

Griffey -- yes, he got hurt early and often after 31. Though he's still hitting very well at age 37.
Eddie Mathews -- good, not great, until 35; out of baseball by 37. Totally different body type; era before arthroscopic surgery.
Frank Robinson -- great hitter until age 38, though he'd miss 30 games a year.
Hank Aaron -- great hitter until 39; started missing 30 games a year at 37.
Vladdie Guererro -- Doh! Same age! Still great! Would sure make a good 3-4 for a few years!
Mel Ott -- great hitter until 36, started missing 25 a year by 34.

Until he gets hurt, chances are A-Rod will play Hall of Fame-caliber baseball until at least age 36; I'd bet up to around 38. I'm just not that concerned about wasting money in 2012 right now, especially if it means a legitimate World Series shot every year until then.

by mattwelch on Jul 13, 2007 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd throw in my Stoneman autographed ball

in order to effectuate that first trade!!

F YEAH! IN A HEARTBEAT!!
NO
NO
YES
NO
NO
NO
NO - Why make the same mistake twice with this Eckstein clone? I could give two shits about that Ramon Ortiz clone.

by PieceOfAase on Jul 12, 2007 3:20 PM PDT reply actions

Don't you think

they'd want Kotchman instead of Morales for Teixeira? Even if it's Kotchman, I make that deal in a heartbeat. The Crawford trade seems too good to be true. We get rid of a sore spot in our rotation and deal Willits while his value is at its peak. That being said, I don't see this deal happening. It might be possible if Stoneman includes Adenhart.

by Howie the Halo on Jul 12, 2007 4:52 PM PDT reply actions

dontrell

good trade.

by blaqhalo on Jul 12, 2007 5:07 PM PDT reply actions

Who Thinks Shields would be a great closer?

Does Scot have what it takes to be a solid closer?

Somewhere in Arizona Smokin' TumbleWeeds

by Rex DaKine Budler on Jul 12, 2007 5:13 PM PDT reply actions

He's good

but how much of his confidence comes from knowing that he only has to hold the nails, not actually drive them in.

I think he could do it, but he'll probably run into a rough patch adjusting.

by TheTypingFiend on Jul 12, 2007 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions

so you think Scot has the make up

of a closer, he has yet to apply that makeup and the first few times he applies it, he will look pretty ugly until he figures out the application.

Somewhere in Arizona Smokin' TumbleWeeds

by Rex DaKine Budler on Jul 12, 2007 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions

absolutely...

every gm with a pulse has been drooling over shields for the past 3 years. I would hate to see frankie go, but the fact is we have 2 premier closers in our pen.

by Behind Enemy Lines on Jul 12, 2007 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Think About This One

Why was Justin Speier brought here? Was it an insurance policy? A policy in case they decide to trade Frankie or even Scot to get that bat we are searching for?

Think about this scenario: let's say Frankie is traded for A-Rod (along with the other players agreed to for the trade) and that Justin Speier is now our "Set Up Man" ala Scot Shields, and now Scot Shields is our Frankie or the new closer.

I am curious to know what others feelings are. And if I am correct with my hunch, then I would think we would see more of Scot in the closers role to test him out before (and if) Frankie was to be dealt.
The Other scenario is that Scot is actually going to get traded and potentially used as the closer for another team. Who thinks Scot has the make up of a closer???

Somewhere in Arizona Smokin' TumbleWeeds

by Rex DaKine Budler on Jul 12, 2007 5:19 PM PDT reply actions

Shields

would be a great closer he looked pretty good to me in 2005 when Frankie was on the DL. I think he blew one save out of 8.

I think Speier was brought in because the price is cheap compared to the piece of mind he gives us in the 7th. Also he lessens Shields workload and increases his ROI.

If anything the intestinal infection has shown us we need all three.

I'm giving Figgins a big F U. Seattle isn't winning 90. I am not worried.

by hauldog on Jul 12, 2007 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Actually

I think Stoneman was just loading up the backend of our bullpen. You can never have too much bullpen help.

by Howie the Halo on Jul 12, 2007 5:35 PM PDT reply actions

I find it humorous ...ok, ironic...

...that what we really NEED is a healthy Troy Glaus or Aramis Ramirez! Not advocating a trade for Glaus, simply making an observation. I frequently wonder what a healthy DMac would do for our lineup?

No interest in ARod at all. His teams never win...one M's team that choked in the playoffs. Arte hit it dead on with his comments about salary disparity with other current players in our clubhouse if you brought in ARod. Has anyone given any thought whatsoever on what Vlad is worth on the open market? Should we be thinking K extension? What is Vlad worth if Pronk gets $14M? How come BStonedman never gets any credit for signing KEskie to the extension when he did?

I digress...I agree with Matt Welch too.

NO
HECK NO
ABSOLUTELY NOT
OK, BUT where do you play him?
TOO MUCH...NO
ATL would never do it
What are you smoking? I want some.
OK

We swing at strikes...we win! Pitching will be fine as long as Lackey and Shields' arms are ok.

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Jul 12, 2007 6:02 PM PDT reply actions

PS...

Add a healthy and effective Speier to the back end of Shields and KRod...that is MONEY BABY!

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Jul 12, 2007 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Weird

The Angels did not seem to have a problem offering Soriano more money than Vlad.

I'm giving Figgins a big F U. Seattle isn't winning 90. I am not worried.

by hauldog on Jul 12, 2007 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Vlad got we got because of the back problems

and the lack of a NY/CHI/BOS team in the mix. Soriano was offered more, sure, but not more than DOUBLE! That's what it would take to sign A-Rod.

Not gonna happen folks. My guess is that if A-Rod overplays his hand and opts out Arte would make a run, but one within reason (7 years $175mil) and he ends up going to Boston instead. They can afford it with Manny's contract expiring after 2008 and Schilling's this season.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jul 12, 2007 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions

We've got $27 mil coming off the books

Colon, Hillenbrand, Carrasco, Oliver, Molina. All are being replaced internally, not through more free agents, so that means like, what, $24 million lying around? And the only big extension that needs to get done is Frankie, and then maybe we talk about Vlad next year. Cabrera & G.A. come off the books after 2008. That's a lot of cash, a lot of cheap young talent, a lot of playoffs, a lot of positive cashflow for Arte. We can afford $30 mil a year.

by mattwelch on Jul 12, 2007 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions

YOU ARE A MAD MAN ...

...and i like your math!

by Rev Halofan on Jul 12, 2007 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Can't argue with the numbers...

by melvintoast on Jul 13, 2007 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions

All good points indeed

I had not done the math or ran that thought process out that far. Very nice!

Living in Seattle and watching ARod's career...personally I like the guy just fine! He made it pretty clear why he wanted to leave Sea...and did! My problem is that something happens to the teams he goes to...is it chemistry? Bad luck/kharma? Coincidence? I don't think so. "Slapped" any balls out of anyone's hands lately? He turns 32 in a few weeks. Traditional, non steroid, non-HGH athletes trend way downhill quickly from this age forth. I simply can not understand paying him $30+M a year for the next 5-7 years!

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Jul 13, 2007 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Ain't nothing "traditional" about A-Rod

He's one of the best players to ever put on cleats. At his worst he's better than Troy Glaus at his best. Guys that good at 31 are still great players at 36, unless they get hurt.

by mattwelch on Jul 13, 2007 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Nice analogy with Glaus

for those that can't understand how good he is...

What? Figgins is playing better? Well, I still don't like him.

by gorams77 on Jul 14, 2007 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Well said

A 36-37 A-Rod will be just as good as Glaus is/was in his prime. A 35 HR power guy with a lot of K's and mediocre average who likely has 1-2 DL stints each year.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jul 14, 2007 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions

If D-Mac had been 70 percent of what he was

hyped up as the last 2 years might have looked very different. The fact that he's still on the 40 man roster means that Stoneman hasn't thrown in the towel yet.

Obviously Rivera breaking his leg is kinda similar. Was last fall a flash in the pan or was Rivera hitting his stride?

by melvintoast on Jul 12, 2007 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions

hmm...

1. Ervin Santana and minor leaguers Sean Rodriguez and Nick Adenhardt for...
Dontrelle WILLIS

negative. i think willis is on the decline, and think that adenhart could be something special, as could rodriguez as a post-Cabrera option.

2. Chone Figgins and minor leaguer Brandon Wood for...
Adam DUNN

probably not. not for our two 3b options for the next however many years. i'd do it for wood and santana though.

3. Joe Saunders and Jason Bulger for
Jermaine DYE

negative.

4. Kendry Morales and minor leaguers Stephen Marek and Jose Arredondo for
Mark TEIXEIRA

in a fucking heartbeat.

5. Ervin Santana, Francisco Rodriguez and Kendry Morales for
Alex RODRIGUEZ

yup, if he'd agree to an extension. shields becomes your closer, and speier is your new shields.

6. Ervin Santana, Mike Napoli and Dustin Moseley for
Brian MCCANN

nope. i think moseley may be a necessity for the back end of this rotation next year, and as good as mccann is, i can't see dealing him for 3 guys from the 25 man roster.

7. Jered Weaver for
Aubrey HUFF

no way.

8. Reggie Willits, Ervin Santana and minr leaguer Jose Arredondo for
Carl CRAWFORD

yessir. in a heartbeat.

SPORTS UNFILTERED

by pedro guerrero on Jul 12, 2007 9:23 PM PDT reply actions